[00:25] Anyone used PyGTK at all? [01:17] Anyone read Jono's Book, "The Art of Community"? [01:18] I've been curious of it previously, but haven't read it [01:18] Its quite good, been reading it this past week [01:18] ahh [01:20] I thought about picking up a copy, but haven't so far. [01:22] Has been a very interesting read, I'd like to get more active in the community [01:23] It's also available freely as a PDF as well, correct? [01:23] I'm not sure [01:23] http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/downloads/jonobacon-theartofcommunity-1ed.pdf [01:26] Good to know. Already purchased it, I'll help support Jono, and save on the eye strain [01:33] heh yea [14:24] where should one start looking for a linux job? also if anyone could send me their resume for examples i'd appreciate it. [15:43] I'd also be curious as well [15:51] From my experience, if you want to have a job where Linux is the primary focus, you'll probably need to be a serious coder, either that, or a server admim. But employers don't know what to make of linux. It's best to have some more generic degrees, certifications, and job experience. [15:52] Unless, of course, your trying to join an established linux company like redhat or canonical. Either way, you'll probably need some mad coding skills to get hired [16:14] i've been using linux since 1996 and have been coding since 1983 [16:14] the reason that i dont know the first thing about finding a linux job is that i've never had to try before :/ [18:57] kermit: In what area of the state are you looking for a job? [19:07] kermit: Of my jobs where I used Linux, here's how I got them: [19:07] 1) New the guy from previously being co-workers at Erik's Bike Shop [19:08] 2) Stood out as a student who knew my way around Linux at Saint Paul College, hired first as student help then regular staff [19:08] 3) Craigslist [19:08] Dice.com is good for both help-desk monkeys and senior admins, but not much in between currently. [19:09] Remind me about the resume in the evening. [19:10] For what those jobs were, 1) random technical help, low-key server admin, 2) combination server admin & workstation support, 3) Linux-based virtual appliance development, testing, documentation, & support [19:12] 1) Now-defunct web-dev firm, 2) Saint Paul College Computing Careers Department, 3) Nagios, Inc. (current) [19:26] rlaager: minneapolis [19:26] tonyyarusso: thanks! [19:27] wow, *Knew on that first one [19:27] gnu! [19:30] oh all FOSS ppl should start saynig gnu for new/knew [19:30] I GNU that [19:30] i think i will, maybe it'll start a movement [20:06] heh [20:08] ITT Technical college sounds just a little Windows-centric [20:09] based upon my visit today [20:09] Doesn't surprise me. [20:09] Linux is available as an aside practically. [20:09] Saint Paul College and Hennepin Tech both had some decent Linux stuff, although I don't know if I'd go as far as Linux-centric. Probably fairly even-handed. [20:10] I'd rather do something platform-agnostic and about the actual concepts rather than "You double click this, click this tab, click this button (...)" [20:10] Metro State uses Linux for some courses too. [20:10] oh, yeah, no [20:10] ahh [20:11] Saint Paul College has "Operating System Fundamentals" (courses I and II), which use Linux because they can demonstrate the point more in-depth. [20:11] My only issue for the "better" colleges would be acceptance, since I'm not Mr. 4.0 GPA or anything of that nature. [20:12] And I haven't taken the ACT/SAT [20:13] Is it common for colleges to let you just take the test for a class and receive credit (if you obviously pass) without having to pay for that course, or? [20:13] What "better" colleges offer anything resembling tech courses? [20:14] Unless you wanted to go for an actual CompSci degree I guess - UMN & St. Olaf both have good stuff for that. [20:14] No. If you're lucky they might let you take the test and not have to attend, but you'd still have to pay regardless. [20:15] Well generally speaking, colleges that have strict acceptance requirements are probably the ones I wouldn't be able to get into, is just one limiting factor for me in general. [20:15] For ITT they implied I'd be able to take a test for a course and actually wouldn't have to pay for that course (if I didn't need to go through it) [20:16] So, St. Olaf is out. Everything else mentioned is in. UMN would probably make you take the ACT or SAT first. [20:17] h00k: Teach me about debhelper :P [20:17] Though I presume U of M is an arm and a leg. [20:17] (in cost) [20:18] Not compared to the "better" schools. Compared to the community colleges yes. [20:19] 2009-10 tuition and fees for new students (based on two semesters of full-time enrollment) [20:19] Minnesota residents - $11,542 [20:20] and for U of M, I'd pretty much need full dedication towards it, or would be able to have a job at the same time? [20:20] tonyyarusso: uuuum [20:20] debhelper, I bet ripps would know. [20:20] For comparison, St. John's University: [20:20] For the 2010-2011 academic year: [20:20] * Tuition and fees: $31,576 [20:21] h00k: true [20:21] * tonyyarusso pokes the absent ripps [20:21] I don't know enough to be able to help you :( [20:21] I think you can ask for a mentor with using debhelper and so on [20:21] tonyyarusso: or..Amaranth I bet would know [20:21] yeah, but -motu is pretty dead atm [20:21] over the MOTU mailing list I believe [20:21] ahh [20:22] tonyyarusso: Amaranth poked his head in before in -offtopic [20:22] then resurrect them. :P [20:25] * Takyoji plays Gish [20:32] Perhaps we could have a meeting or something via IRC or something for those curious of doing deb packaging [20:34] That'd be good, yes. Michigan does that a lot. [20:34] and could also work on accommodating learning materials/printouts [21:14] http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/may2010/typhoid read it and the white paper at the bottom. [21:27] i've been rather unsuccesfully self-employed for a long time, i'm having a hard time with this "employment history" part of my resume.. i have skills, i just don't know how to make anyone believe that i do. [21:30] how do you get past HR to the techies who can guage your skills on their own merits? [21:31] magics [21:32] maybe targetting smaller businesses who don't have an HR department.. [21:36] kermit, thats where certs are handy.. HR rou8nd files many who dont have X Y and Z [21:37] certs alone, like experience alone, arent valid. [21:37] You need both. [21:37] For certs, in this economy, there are MANY unemployeed MCSE, CCNA, etc, so for for something like the RHCE, Security+, Linux+, Juniper certs, Ethical Hacker Cert, etc. [21:38] Obsidian1723: rou8nd? [21:38] A lot of it too is how your resume reads [21:38] - 8 typo [21:38] "round"? [21:38] I can look at your resume if you want, finese it out a bit. [21:38] i thought i'd always be self employeed, i have no certs [21:38] you're already on the list to send it to, when i finish writing it :) [21:38] Yeah, Ive been at it 32 years, never got "The Papers" until now. [21:38] and, thanks [21:39] You have my email? [21:39] no [21:39] rezphreak@hotmail.com [21:39] I had $500k just 3 years ago, this economy wiped me out faster than I could react. [21:39] i guess i'm a better coder than investor [21:42] Didn't know there was something called "Ethical Hacker Certification" [21:42] haha [21:46] what are your areas of expertise? [21:47] There is. Security certs are big. Surprisingly, you dont need them for the area Im going into, but I want them anyway. [21:47] Right now I have a DCSE, Network+, Linux+, and 32 years expedrience. [21:47] and I cant still type worth a damn [21:49] Kermit, what are your areas of exertise? and what areas do you have ewxperience in? they arent always the same. [21:50] Obsidian1723: my best skill is manipulating large sets of textual data with efficient combinations of bash/awk, gnu find/bin/text utils, and whatever custom C code is necessary, but i can admin too, i've been running linux since 1996 and have been on PCs since 1983... but the this resume is my top priority and you'll have it soon. [21:50] by large i mean, where cpu/memory/disk bandwidth is a bottleneck [21:51] ok, now, I would recommend a functional format vs a time line one. [21:51] ? [21:51] resume format? [21:52] yeah i pretty much have to do it that way [21:52] For example, my current job, and last 2 jobs before it, all dealt with custom software. I can use that. At one job, I monitored ATMs over high-security networks, at this job, I work in biometric security, I can link the two. [21:54] So since you can C program, that can be tied into bash scripting/programming, which can tie into administration. [21:55] i'd be a fine admin, but it wouldnt be up to my potential [21:55] You could also develop. The big thing is: What can I do for YOU? This is what I can do, how I can do it, and more over, here is HOW I did it, WHEN and WHERE I did it in the past, and how I can do it and benefit you now. [21:56] ok [21:56] You mean you can do more than admin? [21:56] i mean i'm a coder at heart [21:56] particularly, algorithms [21:56] Well, admin and developers/programmers are a different breed. Admins want network security, and developers/programmers whine about it because it "breaks" their code so they want root access to get things to work. [21:57] and an understanding of the underlying hardware and OS to make efficient routines [21:57] Then you should code. [21:58] You wopnt be happy admining [21:58] the most ideal job i ever had was generating statistics on DNA sequences, which was computationally intensive and didn't fit in RAM so eliminated typically taught techniques of 'load, process, store' [21:58] Obsidian1723: well, i would be if what most admins tell me is true, that they only really work 1/3 of the time ;) [21:59] haha not quite true. [22:03] 32 years experience eh? Obsidian1723 is old. [22:03] if we divide my hours on a PC over 40, and count that as the number of weeks, i have that many ;) but i'm only 34. [22:05] Started at age 11 in 1978., [22:05] 43 now., [22:34] Obsidian1723: are you old enough to look at moder cell "phones" and think "100 new features that will take months to learn wont make up for 1 feature i'm accustomed to in my 2003 phone" ? :) [22:37] yup [22:38] If I wan t Internet, I have a desktyop and laptop. [22:38] if i wanted internet, i'd have stayed home ;) [22:38] I want my phone to be a phone. Texting is going backwards. If I wanted to comminicate old skool, Id use morse code, faster than texting. [22:39] dee dee da da deet da da deet [22:39] Obsidian1723: i miss my startac, it was 1/4 speaker, you didnt have to line up a pinhole with your ear. it's still the best *phone* ever. [22:39] ..---.-.-- [22:39] :D [22:39] but it cant text, and doestn have a calender, and i cant set certain people's ringtones to "none" [22:44] I had Sprint disable texting on my phone. [22:51] who's going to dc612 tommorow? [22:51] http://dc612.org/ [23:20] If I was told prior I would have planned for it. :P [23:20] Takyoji: it's monthly, maybe next month then [23:20] ahh [23:22] Takyoji: so also is the 2600 meeting [23:26] both meet in or near downtown, which is ideal for me [23:27] downtown mpls [23:45] that sounds cool [23:49] mn2600 meetings get about a dozen people, dc612 had about 30 [23:49] don't know much about penetration testing though [23:49] i've never heard anyone talk about that at either of those [23:49] one of my coworkers is working pen testing cell networks [23:49] maybe he will go [23:51] anyone who likes *nix fits in well at either, they usually arent actually penetration testing themed [23:51] back before people did financial transactoins online, that was just an ordinary part of the fun ;) [23:52] when 95% of the people on university servers were on stolen accounts