| lifeless | jam: nice | 00:37 |
|---|---|---|
| lifeless | otfl | 01:34 |
| lifeless | meh | 01:34 |
| spm | lifeless: where are we at with the pqm shiny? can I mark that RT as complete? Or we're still testing? | 01:36 |
| lifeless | we rolled back last night | 01:37 |
| lifeless | I'm stabbing with a BIG KNIFE | 01:37 |
| lifeless | unfuckingbelievable where this was at | 01:37 |
| spm | wow, that bad eh? | 01:46 |
| lifeless | yes | 02:02 |
| lifeless | stdout and stderr are different fd's *for a reason* | 02:02 |
| spm | oh my. :-) | 02:06 |
| dmuir | Can anybody give me a hand with fixing history? | 02:51 |
| maxb | dmuir: elaborate :-) | 02:51 |
| dmuir | Basically, I have several revisions where files were deleted/added instead of moved, and I'd like to fix that. | 02:52 |
| dmuir | Is there some way I can create a branch up to the offending revision, fix it, then play back the other changes on top? | 02:54 |
| maxb | fix, from the point of view of making the actual old revisions look different, or fix, from the point of view of just stopping it causing a problem with future merging? | 02:54 |
| dmuir | would be nice to fix so the old revision looks different, but primarily because it causes problems with merging. | 02:54 |
| dmuir | Whichever is easiest :-) | 02:55 |
| maxb | rewriting history is awkward. sorting future merging is easier | 02:55 |
| dmuir | ok | 02:55 |
| dmuir | say the offending revno is 20 | 02:55 |
| dmuir | bzr branch -r 19 trunk fix_moves | 02:56 |
| dmuir | cd fix_moves | 02:56 |
| dmuir | do I then do: | 02:56 |
| dmuir | bzr merge -c 20 ../trunk | 02:56 |
| dmuir | ? | 02:56 |
| dmuir | and then fix the problems? Or is there a better way? | 02:57 |
| dmuir | the problem with the above is merging back into trunk is a pain with fixing all the conflicts... | 02:58 |
| * maxb ponders | 02:58 | |
| maxb | I've only ever fixed this sort of thing by carefully rearranging things *while* in the middle of doing a merge that generated contents conflicts | 02:59 |
| dmuir | ah, ok. Yeah, a bunch of these are old revisions that are now causing problems... | 03:00 |
| dmuir | and the conflicts are really hard to figure out... | 03:01 |
| zearin | Hello? Anyone not AFK here? I sheepishly approach, with a n00b question 0:-) | 03:02 |
| dmuir | zearing: ask away | 03:03 |
| dmuir | err, sorry, zearin | 03:03 |
| zearin | lol np | 03:03 |
| zearin | K, so…2 computers. House WiFi. I have a Bzr branch on my desktop I want to access on my laptop. I am embarrassed to admit that I found this to be waaaaay harder than I expected :D | 03:04 |
| dmuir | OS? | 03:04 |
| zearin | Both computers are Macs on OSX 10.6, latest version of Bazaar, and I have discovered the joy of Bazaar Explorer | 03:05 |
| dmuir | hmm... can you set up a shared folder? | 03:05 |
| zearin | Oh yeah, I do sharing all the time | 03:05 |
| maxb | Does OS X run a ssh server by default? | 03:06 |
| maxb | If so, that'll be a good way to do it | 03:06 |
| zearin | I'm just clumsy and novice when it comes to networking and URLs that aren't Web-ish | 03:06 |
| zearin | I have successfully SSHed into my Desktop from this machine, but I want to be able to do it in Bazaar Explorer | 03:06 |
| maxb | bzr+ssh://othermachine/path/to/branch :-) | 03:07 |
| zearin | (Also, I think I want to make it a "bound" branch so both stay in sync…that is correct, right?) | 03:07 |
| zearin | oh! :) | 03:07 |
| zearin | No username@machine/path/etc/etc ? | 03:07 |
| zearin | (with the protocol prefix I forgot to type?) | 03:07 |
| zearin | (gonna try it out right now…) | 03:08 |
| maxb | You can stick a username@ in before the machine name if your username is different on one end of the connection to the other | 03:08 |
| zearin | no, same username. | 03:08 |
| maxb | no need, then | 03:08 |
| maxb | 'bound' means 'when I commit, make sure it happens both remotely and locally' | 03:08 |
| zearin | And—I feel stupid asking as I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes", but—this is a URL, so I should choose "Open URL" instead of "Open" in Bazaar Explorer right? | 03:09 |
| maxb | uh, possibly. I'm a command-line person | 03:09 |
| maxb | no idea :-) | 03:09 |
| zearin | :) | 03:09 |
| zearin | I have full respect and reverence for the CLI | 03:09 |
| zearin | But I have a visual brain and I forget commands repeatedly unless I can see them as a button :) | 03:10 |
| zearin | Hehe | 03:10 |
| zearin | Thanks…gonna give this a shot, but I wanna say this was great support—you guys (and gals?) rock! | 03:10 |
| dmuir | maxb: I've got another problem too... I have some cases where some stuff was added to both a trunk and staging branch, independently. When I try to merge between the two, conflicts galore... any "quick" way to solve? | 03:12 |
| maxb | um. not 'quick' | 03:12 |
| dmuir | bummer :-) | 03:12 |
| maxb | The only way I know is to actually merge, get the conflicts, and then make sure you sort them out the right way such that you never need to do it again | 03:13 |
| zearin | Gah. No luck with bzr+ssh: "Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist." :( | 03:13 |
| zearin | Guess I'm off to launchpad :) | 03:13 |
| dmuir | zearin: That'll work too... the other alternative would be to set up a share, and put the branch there. You should then be able to access it via the file system. | 03:14 |
| zearin | under /Volumes/ ? | 03:14 |
| spiv | zearin: there's probably an error from SSH just before that line that may be relevant | 03:14 |
| zearin | I tried the SSH in the OSX Terminal and it worked fine | 03:15 |
| dmuir | maybe a password issue? | 03:15 |
| zearin | well correction…I tried a plain SSH to my other machine in the Terminal, and it worked fine | 03:15 |
| zearin | I didn't test the bzr+ssh on the CLI | 03:15 |
| dmuir | maxb: what's the "right way"TM to merge so I never need to to do it again? :-) | 03:16 |
| dmuir | zearin: I've found that by using ssh keys, you're much less likely to have issues when using bzr+ssh. | 03:18 |
| zearin | Hm okay…again, this is something I have fiddled with. Barely. But I don't really know what I'm doing with keys. I have a GUI app to help me manage them (don't laugh! :P) | 03:19 |
| dmuir | last time I tried using bzr over a protocol requiring authentication, it would crap out if asked for a password. | 03:19 |
| zearin | that seems to be what is happening | 03:20 |
| zearin | I tried it in terminal and after I gave the password it died | 03:20 |
| lifeless | bzr doesn't have the ability to do ssh passwords - ssh grabs the terminal entirely itself. | 03:20 |
| lifeless | so if you're using ssh (and lp: ends up using ssh), you have to use an agent that can prompt you, or hold the keys open for you | 03:21 |
| zearin | define "grabs the terminal entirely" ? | 03:21 |
| zearin | okay | 03:21 |
| dmuir | zearin: tutorial for setting up ssh keys: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Ssh#Passwordless_Login | 03:21 |
| zearin | I have one already set up | 03:22 |
| zearin | I set it up for LP | 03:22 |
| zearin | I just don't know how to use it otherwise :) | 03:22 |
| spiv | zearin: my point is that the "Connection close: Unexpected end of message..." error is usually not the whole error. There's often some more output just before that that indicates why the connection failed. | 03:22 |
| zearin | Okay spiv … onesec | 03:22 |
| zearin | Tonys-MacBook:~ tony$ bzr branch bzr+ssh://Tonys-iMac.local/Developer/Projects/org.lyris | 03:23 |
| zearin | Unable to load plugin 'rebase'. It requested API version (2, 1, 0) of module <module 'bzrlib' from '/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/bzrlib/__init__.pyc'> but the minimum exported version is (2, 2, 0), and the maximum is (2, 2, 0) | 03:23 |
| zearin | Password: | 03:23 |
| zearin | bash: bzr: command not found | 03:23 |
| zearin | bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist. | 03:23 |
| zearin | That "rebase" error always occurs | 03:23 |
| zearin | But I've never used the rebase command, and other operations seem unaffected, so I ignore it. It can't be connected to the SSH issue, can it? | 03:24 |
| lifeless | zearin: 'command not found' - you don't have bzr installed on your server. | 03:24 |
| zearin | I do, though | 03:24 |
| dmuir | zearin: iYou need to add the same key you added to LP to your other mac, and you'll be able to log in to it without a password. | 03:24 |
| zearin | OOooh | 03:24 |
| zearin | both the identity & identity_rsa ? | 03:25 |
| lifeless | zearin: is it in your path ? | 03:25 |
| spiv | zearin: try "ssh Tonys-iMac.local bzr help", I think you'll see that fail too | 03:25 |
| lifeless | zearin: do this: "ssh Tonys-iMac.local bzr help" | 03:25 |
| lifeless | spiv: \o/ | 03:25 |
| zearin | it did fail. WTF? I know I have bzr on my Desktop because I've already used it there! | 03:26 |
| dmuir | Yes, when you log in directly, but it might not be on the path for ssh. | 03:26 |
| zearin | Well I also tried bzr+ssh://Tonys-iMac.local/~/rest/of/path , which according to the Documentation should unambiguously start me at the home dir | 03:27 |
| zearin | with same results. :( | 03:27 |
| dmuir | zearin: When you connect via ssh, it typically uses a different profile. | 03:28 |
| zearin | okay, so I just did this: | 03:29 |
| zearin | Tonys-MacBook:~ tony$ ssh Tonys-iMac.local | 03:29 |
| zearin | Password: | 03:29 |
| zearin | Last login: Wed Jun 9 22:11:37 2010 from tonys-macbook.local | 03:29 |
| zearin | -bash: /Users/tony/.bashrc: No such file or directory | 03:29 |
| zearin | Tonys-iMac:~ tony$ bzr | 03:29 |
| zearin | Bazaar 2.1.2 -- a free distributed version-control tool | 03:29 |
| zearin | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | 03:29 |
| zearin | … | 03:29 |
| zearin | … | 03:29 |
| zearin | … | 03:29 |
| zearin | I am so beyond confused. :( | 03:29 |
| lifeless | you're setting the path to bzr in your bash_profile, not your bashrc, or vice verca | 03:29 |
| lifeless | I can never remember which is which :) | 03:29 |
| zearin | Neither can any of Google's search results :) | 03:30 |
| lifeless | or you may have it beyond an interactive-only guard in bashrc | 03:30 |
| lifeless | or something like that | 03:30 |
| zearin | Tonys-iMac:~ tony$ which bzr | 03:30 |
| zearin | /usr/local/bin/bzr | 03:31 |
| spiv | lifeless: I'm not sure that execing a command via ssh will run your bashrc (or whatever your shell of choice is) at all? | 03:32 |
| zearin | I'm not sure what you mean… :( | 03:32 |
| zearin | Tonys-iMac:~ tony$ cat .bash_profile | 03:33 |
| zearin | . ~/.bashrc | 03:33 |
| zearin | #Setting PATH for MacPython 2.6 | 03:33 |
| zearin | #The orginal version is saved in .bash_profile.pysave | 03:33 |
| zearin | PATH="/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin:${PATH}" | 03:33 |
| zearin | export PATH | 03:33 |
| zearin | #Aliases | 03:33 |
| zearin | # | 03:33 |
| zearin | #@TODO - use "-G" and customize color outputs | 03:33 |
| zearin | alias ls="ls -aehAF" | 03:33 |
| zearin | Does that help? | 03:33 |
| dmuir | .bashrc is used for non-login shells | 03:33 |
| spiv | zearin: (please use a pastebin) | 03:33 |
| zearin | How do I use a pastebin? | 03:33 |
| lifeless | spiv: zearin put the PATH version in .bashrc | 03:33 |
| lifeless | bah | 03:33 |
| lifeless | zearin: ^ | 03:33 |
| lifeless | spm: ready for some monkey love? | 03:34 |
| zearin | … | 03:34 |
| spm | lifeless: perhaps not literally | 03:34 |
| zearin | *innocent look* | 03:34 |
| lifeless | spm - please pull lp:~lifeless/pqm/attachments into pqm, after grabbing the current revision-info | 03:34 |
| zearin | I prefer my girlfriend :) She's much nicer than a monkey | 03:34 |
| spm | hookay | 03:34 |
| dmuir | ok... this is getting weird... back to work... | 03:34 |
| spiv | zearin: you need to set PATH in your .bashrc | 03:35 |
| zearin | Okay | 03:35 |
| zearin | Can I be lazy and just…cp .bash_profile .bashrc? | 03:35 |
| lifeless | no | 03:35 |
| zearin | Damn. | 03:35 |
| lifeless | spiv: I wonder if thats the macosx installer's fault? | 03:36 |
| spiv | lifeless: hmm, possibly | 03:36 |
| zearin | :(* | 03:36 |
| zearin | :*( | 03:36 |
| spm | lifeless: 232 robertc@robertcollins.net-20100422043204-70jn37kx2whdm8fr | 03:36 |
| spiv | lifeless: worth asking someone that knows, at least :) | 03:36 |
| lifeless | spiv: will you file the bug, or should I? | 03:36 |
| spm | lifeless: Now on revision 252. u1 and ls are disabled for now; bzr is not | 03:37 |
| lifeless | spm: and do 'python -c "import bzrlib.tests"' just to check | 03:37 |
| spiv | lifeless: please do, if you don't mind. | 03:37 |
| spm | worked | 03:37 |
| lifeless | spm: thanks | 03:37 |
| * spm waves heyo to spiv-the-dad | 03:37 | |
| lifeless | zearin: how did you install bzr ? | 03:38 |
| zearin | Mac installer. | 03:38 |
| spiv | spm: hey :) | 03:38 |
| zearin | lifeless: I installed it from the command line before, but I could never get Bazaar Explorer to install and work when I did that. I tried installing all the dependencies from scratch and went through tons of grief in a long Launchpad troubleshooting dialogue. Finally a new Mac installer came out, and I used it, and Bazaar Explorer worked. I was ecstatic. :) | 03:40 |
| zearin | lifeless: Both machines are using bzr from the Mac Installer now. | 03:40 |
| zearin | All I want is to sync two machines in my house. :( Why do I fail? | 03:44 |
| lifeless | zearin: make the change spiv recommended | 03:45 |
| zearin | trying… | 03:47 |
| zearin | Gah | 03:49 |
| zearin | I'm too clumsy at this stuff :( And tired. I gotta go sleep. | 03:49 |
| zearin | But you were really supportive and I totally appreciate that! lifeless, spiv, dmuir, anybody else I forgot—thanks. I'll try again soon. ;) | 03:50 |
| zearin | Good night all, and may your commands complete execution flawlessly! | 03:50 |
| dmuir | maxb: thanks for the help. I've been able to fix the conflicts and now merging works again :-) | 04:46 |
| lifeless | spm: again please | 05:01 |
| lifeless | dmuir: cool | 05:01 |
| spm | lifeless: Now on revision 253. | 05:03 |
| lifeless | spm: thanks | 05:03 |
| spm | that was from lp:~lifeless/pqm/attachments again, to verify for you | 05:04 |
| lifeless | yes | 05:09 |
| poolie | hi lifeless | 05:09 |
| poolie | can we talk about pqm some time? | 05:10 |
| lifeless | poolie: sure | 05:10 |
| lifeless | now is good | 05:10 |
| poolie | me too | 05:10 |
| poolie | hi lifeless, i'm back if you want to talk about fixtures | 06:06 |
| lifeless | please ring me | 06:25 |
| lifeless | poolie: ^ | 06:25 |
| m3ga | bzr 2.1.1 on lucid. if i do 'bzr merge /other/branch/' i get 'bzr: ERROR: Working tree has uncommitted changes (See bzr status).' but 'bzr status' says nothing. whats going on? | 06:35 |
| spiv | m3ga: that's strange | 06:36 |
| m3ga | hey spiv. yes, strange indeed | 06:36 |
| spiv | m3ga: I suppose that might happen if you had aliased bzr status to actually do "bzr status ." and your cwd isn't the project root... | 06:37 |
| m3ga | nope, thats not it | 06:37 |
| spiv | Yeah, that did seem a bit far-fetched. | 06:38 |
| m3ga | is just did 'bzr revert' and it removed a couple of files. | 06:38 |
| spiv | Hmm, then 'bzr status' should have reported something before the revert. | 06:38 |
| m3ga | i agree :-) | 06:38 |
| m3ga | and now it thinks there is no common ancestor | 06:39 |
| spiv | Or perhaps 'bzr --no-plugins --no-aliases status' should have ;) | 06:39 |
| m3ga | thay may in fact not have a common ancestor. | 06:39 |
| spiv | Yeah, that message is generally right :) | 06:40 |
| m3ga | yep, no common ancestor | 06:40 |
| m3ga | thanks spiv | 06:41 |
| lifeless | spm: hi | 07:33 |
| spm | lifeless: I'd thought you'd forgotten about me.... | 07:33 |
| lifeless | no | 07:33 |
| spm | :-) | 07:33 |
| lifeless | sadly python 2.x sucks | 07:33 |
| lifeless | and something is upcasting things to unicode | 07:33 |
| spm | switch to VisualBasic, make all our probvlems go away | 07:33 |
| lifeless | so it only shows up in prod :( | 07:34 |
| spm | excellent | 07:35 |
| spm | spmdo? | 07:36 |
| lifeless | sec | 07:39 |
| lifeless | managed to reproduce locally | 07:39 |
| lifeless | via the magic of paranoia | 07:39 |
| spm | :-) | 07:39 |
| spm | lifeless: just for the moment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRiSb_Ir-s | 07:40 |
| vila | hi all | 07:45 |
| spm | hey vila | 07:45 |
| lifeless | spm: spmdo, 254 incoming | 07:46 |
| spm | lifeless: 254 from lp:~lifeless/pqm/attachments pulled in | 07:48 |
| lifeless | spm: nice song | 07:52 |
| spm | lifeless: you've not come across Garbage before? havea few of their cd's. not too shabby. | 07:53 |
| lifeless | oh, I have cd's :) | 07:53 |
| lifeless | doesn't stop it being a nice song | 07:53 |
| spm | heh | 07:56 |
| lifeless | I got into garbage at uni | 07:57 |
| lifeless | -not to be quoting thast- | 07:58 |
| spm | struggling to remember who I was listening to at Uni. zztop, pink floyd, queen, icehouse for a local band - live at expo '88 - awesomeness; /me quickly checks his record (yes record) collection, gets embarrassed and stops describing right there. | 08:13 |
| vila | spm: yeah, better stop there or you will look even older than me :) (There was a Status Quo appearance near Strasbourg a couple of weeks ago and that's how I learned that they weren't dead after all :) | 08:15 |
| spm | vila: you'll be pleased to know we've been educated our 7yo with Status Quo, (and Slade etc) which he tends to sing very loudly. I only hope it's a few more years before he discovers the meaning of some of those lyrics... :-D | 08:17 |
| vila | hehe | 08:18 |
| * vila takes note to listen to the lyrics again now that his english has hopefully improved enough to understand ;) | 08:19 | |
| spm | 'the wanderer' is a classic that way | 08:19 |
| spm | lifeless: how are we going with pqm? safe to open for U1 et al yet? or keep it wrapped? | 08:22 |
| lifeless | waiting on spivs job | 08:22 |
| lifeless | then my test one will go through | 08:22 |
| lifeless | so - 1.3 hours prob | 08:22 |
| lifeless | I'll liase with mthaddon | 08:22 |
| vila | lifeless: what is up with pqm ? | 08:23 |
| * lifeless needs to send mail | 08:23 | |
| lifeless | trying to fix the terrible output people were getting | 08:23 |
| vila | for value of terrible including None ? | 08:24 |
| lifeless | no | 08:24 |
| lifeless | truncated subunit stuff | 08:24 |
| lifeless | filtered, no cause of error show, stdout+stderr conflated | 08:25 |
| spm | lifeless: oki, I'll make sure the R Tis updated with the deatils of where we're at | 08:25 |
| lifeless | thanks | 08:25 |
| vila | lifeless: oooh, the one poolie mentioned, great, I think babune encountered it from time to time but I thought it was due to something else, since it was sporadic I had no way to diagnose, so any fix there will be warmly welcome | 08:26 |
| vila | lifeless: so you're fixing subunit or pqm ? | 08:26 |
| mwhudson | vila: morning, how was your trip home? | 08:26 |
| poolie | hi there spiv, vila, mwhudson, lifeless | 08:26 |
| lifeless | vila: pqm | 08:26 |
| spm | hey mwhudson | 08:27 |
| poolie | lifeless, do you know off hand a good incantation to run a unittest from the interpreter | 08:27 |
| poolie | or more particularly from a doctest | 08:27 |
| vila | mwhudson: I missed a train in Cambridge, got the next one (luckily 20 mins later), had on horrible trip between London and Paris due to 6 guys playing cards, drinking beer and laughing louder than you can imagine, but I arrived safely in the end :) | 08:27 |
| mwhudson | vila: :/ | 08:28 |
| mwhudson | vila: arriving safe is the main point i guess | 08:28 |
| poolie | and the worst thing... they work for us :/ | 08:28 |
| poolie | ;-) | 08:28 |
| vila | mwhudson: I managed to fix two bugs related to BZR_PLUGINS_AT. Since I couldn't fight the guys, I throw my anger at the bugs :) | 08:28 |
| vila | poolie: hehe, no way, we have some guys who drink but they manage to make *us* laugh instead :) | 08:30 |
| mwhudson | s/some/one/ | 08:31 |
| mwhudson | :-) | 08:31 |
| vila | mwhudson: well, protecting the innocent(s) requires some blurry references :) | 08:31 |
| poolie | one guy who drinks? i think you need to pay more attention :) | 08:32 |
| vila | there is drinking.... and then there is... drinking... | 08:34 |
| lifeless | poolie: testscenarios has a doctest demo doing that | 08:35 |
| lifeless | poolie: already fixed up to not chat to stdout/stderr | 08:35 |
| poolie | ok thanks | 08:35 |
| lifeless | you may recognize it still :) | 08:35 |
| vila | I drink only water and I'm not responsible for what is added there by barmaids as long that it's less than say 20% of the total :) | 08:36 |
| poolie | :) | 08:36 |
| lifeless | I hate python2 | 09:15 |
| netshine | :-( | 09:17 |
| netshine | i like java :+) | 09:17 |
| netshine | btw lifeless, if i have changes in my files, and bzr know about that modified: | 09:17 |
| netshine | ChangeLog | 09:17 |
| netshine | src/cv_paintbrush_tool.c | 09:17 |
| netshine | why he still dosnt want to update... has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push. | 09:18 |
| lifeless | netshine: newer bzr doesn't do that, it says '--strict to prevent' | 09:46 |
| lifeless | netshine: but are you pushing, or updating ? they are different things | 09:46 |
| netshine | thats ok fixed that. i was needed to mark the changes. | 09:48 |
| === radoe_ is now known as radoe | ||
| === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless | ||
| mgz | I have clearly gone mad | 14:10 |
| mgz | apparently left this branch in a completely broken state on the last commit | 14:10 |
| mgz | syntax errors and everything | 14:11 |
| mgz | this last bug is at least in codecs.open rather than my code | 14:11 |
| bialix | hey mgz | 14:33 |
| mgz | hey Alexander, just read the mail about a branch you want me to review | 14:34 |
| vila | privet sacha, hi mgz | 14:35 |
| mgz | vila has been practicing his russian? or is very interested in hedges. | 14:36 |
| vila | mgz: can jython use ctypes ? | 14:36 |
| fullermd | mgz: Either way, he's branching out 8-} | 14:36 |
| vila | One more joke going over my head :-/ | 14:37 |
| vila | fullermd: _o/ | 14:37 |
| mgz | vila: not currently, but there is com.sun.jna | 14:37 |
| * fullermd buys vila a very tall hat. | 14:37 | |
| vila | I hate hats (sounds funny :) | 14:38 |
| mgz | http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/pics_10273.html | 14:38 |
| vila | mgz: hehe, so, bialix told me privet is the closest to hello indeed ;) | 14:39 |
| bialix | what? | 14:42 |
| bialix | why are hedges? | 14:43 |
| mgz | I was just making a little joke, bialix :) | 14:44 |
| bialix | ali g? | 14:45 |
| bialix | I don't want a chicken | 14:45 |
| bialix | bonjour vila | 14:46 |
| bialix | :-P | 14:46 |
| mgz | bialix: lp:~jspashett/bzr/587868_args_handling_cant_debug looks sensible to me, could do with some tests though | 15:02 |
| bialix | yep, I think it's possible to write tests here by replacing sys.argv with some value and then back | 15:03 |
| bialix | can you add such comment? I'm not sure is Jason will be able to write such tests though | 15:03 |
| mgz | no problem. | 15:05 |
| bialix | nice Bug 592083 | 15:11 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 592083 in Bazaar "UnicodeDecodeError in get_password if user name is unicode (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592083 | 15:11 |
| bialix | there are several nasty bugs when user name is non ascii, or have a space inside. | 15:12 |
| bialix | I know, but never got enough time to fix :-/ | 15:12 |
| mgz | yeah, the space inside one bugged me for agest | 15:12 |
| mgz | but removing the default userid stuff last month was good enough for me | 15:13 |
| bialix | it's not enough | 15:13 |
| bialix | and that bug show | 15:13 |
| === TheLyle is now known as IslandUsurper | ||
| jam | vila: are you still around? | 16:06 |
| vila | jam: hellloooo jam, yes | 16:06 |
| mgz | parthm... isn't in the channel... | 16:12 |
| === IslandUsurper is now known as IslandUsurperAFK | ||
| === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch | ||
| parthm | jam: ping | 17:41 |
| jam | hi parthm | 17:52 |
| parthm | jam: hi | 17:52 |
| parthm | jam: i was looking into the "Will continue to try.." message. removing it totally seems good to me. | 17:53 |
| parthm | jam: if the timeout is always 0 i can also remove the code for it. do you know if "poll" is bzrlib.lockdir.wait_lock is used or is that also always 0? | 17:54 |
| jam | parthm: the timeout is not 0 locally | 17:55 |
| jam | just for the smart server | 17:55 |
| parthm | jam: ok. in that case i suppose i will just put the message in a conditional for time > 0 | 17:56 |
| parthm | s/time/timeout/ | 17:56 |
| === IslandUsurperAFK is now known as IslandUsurper | ||
| parthm | jam: thanks for the clarification. i will update the mp for this. | 17:57 |
| === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno | ||
| mgz | okay, let's finish this off, building py3k now. | 18:17 |
| exarkun | mgz: did you port bzr to python 3? | 18:19 |
| mgz | ha, no, need to finish getting it working on less exotic pythons first | 18:19 |
| mgz | I need to check that my testtools change doesn't break py3k though. | 18:20 |
| mgz | okay, this is going to be a problem | 18:38 |
| mgz | looks like testtools has been written to be source-compatible with py3k | 18:38 |
| mgz | don't see how I can easily maintain that and actually test things related to unicode | 18:39 |
| mgz | wonder if they'd take a patch that ran 2to3 in setup.py instead | 18:41 |
| mgz | though, does appear to be broken on py3k currently anyway | 18:50 |
| mgz | okay, back to work | 19:34 |
| mgz | why I hate DocTestMatches - what the hell is the mismatch here: | 19:35 |
| mgz | http://paste.ubuntu.com/447885/ | 19:35 |
| mgz | okay, got it. | 19:46 |
| mgz | py3k removes the word "integer" from the exception message raised by `1/0` which means there's one too many spaces between the dots | 19:47 |
| TresEquis | anybody know how to get loggerhead to serve up robots.txt? | 20:22 |
| TresEquis | spiders suck, but at least some of them play by the rules | 20:23 |
| mgz | why should that be loggerhead's job? or are you using it without any kind of front end webserver? | 20:31 |
| lifeless | morning | 20:35 |
| mgz | morning lifeless | 20:38 |
| TresEquis | mgz: it is running proxied behind apache | 20:39 |
| mgz | so, get apache to serve up robots.txt then. | 20:39 |
| TresEquis | but the "top level" for the domain is the loggerhead server | 20:39 |
| mgz | Alias robots.txt /path/to/robots.txt # or something | 20:40 |
| mgz | hm... my conf uses AliasMatch ^/robots.txt$ - but can't remember if I had a reason or was just being anal | 20:41 |
| TresEquis | mgz: can you post the whole line? | 20:42 |
| mgz | well, what I have to hand is: | 20:43 |
| mgz | AliasMatch ^/robots.txt$ "C:/Program Files/Apache2/htdocs/robots.txt" | 20:43 |
| mgz | I remember why I wrote it like that now, means paths like /robots.txt/extra/junk won't be translated | 20:44 |
| TresEquis | hmm | 20:46 |
| TresEquis | that doesn't seem to do it in my case | 20:46 |
| mgz | what mechanism are you using to forward requests to the (I presume) seperate loggerhead server? | 20:47 |
| TresEquis | mod_rewrite | 21:00 |
| TresEquis | I have a working rewrite rule now | 21:00 |
| mgz | ugh, could also be called mod_misuse | 21:01 |
| TresEquis | mgz: I've been using it to front Zope for more than a decade | 21:01 |
| mgz | bet you could do exactly what you are already with shorter, more readable config and just straight mod_proxy | 21:02 |
| TresEquis | nope | 21:02 |
| mgz | for some reason people treat mod_rewrite as a front end to everything else | 21:02 |
| TresEquis | I really do need to rewrite the URLs to get virtual hosting working | 21:02 |
| mgz | anyway, glad it's working. | 21:03 |
| TresEquis | it uses mod_proxy on the backend | 21:03 |
| TresEquis | thanks | 21:03 |
| TresEquis | I still think that loggerhead should be able to serve static files trivially | 21:03 |
| lifeless | I think that might be nice | 21:04 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: howdy! you find a house yet? | 21:11 |
| lifeless | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=40+Rowse+Street,+Rangiora,+Canterbury,+New+Zealand&sll=-43.561088,172.721778&sspn=0.007961,0.017767&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=40+Rowse+St,+Rangiora+7400,+New+Zealand&ll=-43.316451,172.586439&spn=0.007993,0.017767&z=16&layer=c&cbll=-43.316371,172.586489&panoid=QOxqEX79iOaIyNEKwDze-A&cbp=12,283.41,,0,12.7 | 21:12 |
| lifeless | we've put an offer in on it | 21:13 |
| TresEquis | cool | 21:13 |
| TresEquis | good luck | 21:15 |
| TresEquis | we lost a bidding war when I was looking 10 years ago | 21:17 |
| lifeless | :( | 21:17 |
| TresEquis | turned out the place would've sucked -- the one we got is better (and cheaper) | 21:18 |
| lifeless | :) | 21:18 |
| lifeless | they have accepted out offer | 21:18 |
| lifeless | but we're doing due diligence stuff atm | 21:18 |
| lifeless | so contract isn't unconditional yet | 21:19 |
| TresEquis | ah, ok | 21:19 |
| agrippa | I want to make the first revision the current revision. How do I do that? | 21:38 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: hey | 22:06 |
| lifeless | mars: since TresEquis is here, lets talk zope.testing briefly | 22:06 |
| lifeless | mars: you might like to read https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gz/testtools/unicode_tracebacks_501166/+merge/26094 | 22:06 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: I'm still around | 22:08 |
| mars | lifeless, well, that is interesting :) | 22:08 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: I'm worried that I'm going to hold up actual fixes going into zope.testing for mars | 22:08 |
| lifeless | when it seems to be that all the proposed patches improve things, there doesn't seem to be a benefit holding one hostage to a separate infrastructure issue | 22:09 |
| lifeless | so I'm hoping to change your -1 that you put in the zope.testing utf8 traceback review ;) | 22:09 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: new features that the Zope developers can't test shouldn't land | 22:09 |
| TresEquis | and bugfixes that we can't test are iffy, too | 22:09 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: they can test it, its just not convenient, AIUI. | 22:10 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: or am I wrong? | 22:10 |
| TresEquis | testing means that it can be run in buildbots, on multiple OSes, etc. | 22:10 |
| lifeless | yes | 22:11 |
| lifeless | and in the case in point it can be | 22:11 |
| lifeless | its just not convenient - which there is a separate task going on to fix. | 22:11 |
| TresEquis | If somebody who actually uses subunit can take point on it, then I think we can merge fixes | 22:11 |
| TresEquis | frankly, the original feature should never have landed without reproducible tests | 22:11 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: mars and sidnei both do - lp uses it for its c-i stuff, and landscape uses it for client tests | 22:11 |
| TresEquis | that don't depend on having subunit installed in the OS default path | 22:12 |
| lifeless | You had me totally convinced until that line; how something is installed is really irrelevant, isn't it ? | 22:12 |
| TresEquis | so, if sidnei wants to merge the fix, and promise that it actually helps, I guess I'm -0 on that | 22:12 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: it needs to be testable in isolation | 22:13 |
| TresEquis | on *every* machine where *anybody* develops zope.testing | 22:13 |
| TresEquis | which means one of the two solutions we talked about the other day | 22:13 |
| mars | TresEquis, does the test suite pass right now when subunit isn't installed? I see that there are doctests for the subunit support. | 22:13 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: yes, thats orthogonal to virtualenv though: you have vm's, chroots, virtualenv, ec2 as different means to do isolated testing. | 22:13 |
| TresEquis | mars: but nobody except you guys can keep from breaking the subunit support | 22:13 |
| mars | true | 22:14 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: I don't buy every machine, as soon as you have any OS specifici stuff, *some* tests have to become conditional. | 22:14 |
| TresEquis | e.g., zope.testing's testrunner is now deprecated | 22:14 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: I'm not saying 'dont improve the testing situation with subunit' | 22:14 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: there is *nothing* actually OS-specific about htis | 22:14 |
| TresEquis | just that subunit's Python support is tied at the hip (for now) to its C build | 22:15 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: I'm saying 'don't hold actual fixes hostage to a different *improvement*'. If mars was reducing test coverage, I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying. | 22:15 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: the risk you speak of already exists, and mars's patch doesn't make it worse - AIUI. | 22:15 |
| TresEquis | right now, *everything* to do with subunit in zope.testing is bitrotted | 22:15 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: which is impressive, as its what - 3 weeks old or something ? :) | 22:15 |
| TresEquis | no, its a year old | 22:16 |
| TresEquis | particularly because zope.testing.testrunner is itself deprecated in favor of zope.testrunner | 22:16 |
| lifeless | wow, time flies. | 22:16 |
| lifeless | I was sure jml's patch only landed a month or so back | 22:16 |
| TresEquis | but none of the developers working to manage the split to zope.testrunner can test the subunit stuff without a major timesuck | 22:16 |
| TresEquis | I did that merge | 22:17 |
| TresEquis | but subunit support was around longer than that | 22:17 |
| mars | TresEquis, ok, would getting subunit onto PyPI solve the problem? Then we can make zope.testing properly depend on subunit for devs. | 22:17 |
| TresEquis | mars: yes, that would help | 22:17 |
| TresEquis | 'subunit-python' or 'python-subunit', that is | 22:18 |
| TresEquis | I contributed a setup.py for that | 22:18 |
| jml | TresEquis, I'm confused | 22:18 |
| jml | TresEquis, I added subunit support to zope.testing this year | 22:18 |
| TresEquis | Didn't sidnei add other subunit-related stuff last year some time? | 22:18 |
| jml | TresEquis, there's some other stuff related to running tests in subprocesses | 22:19 |
| jml | TresEquis, which has, sadly, nothing to do with subunit | 22:19 |
| jml | TresEquis, although if it were implemented properly, it would probably use subunit :) | 22:19 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: so what I think you are saying is "There is a testing and refactoring risk with subunit in zope.testing at the moment" | 22:19 |
| TresEquis | yes | 22:19 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: and "That risk must not be increased and should be decreased" | 22:19 |
| TresEquis | in particular, we are actively refactoring zope.testing | 22:20 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: and I agree with both of those. | 22:20 |
| jml | the subunit stuff in zope.testing is very well tested, fwiw and was added just before the recent split-out of zope.testing.testrunner was proposed | 22:20 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: however you also seem to be implying "the patch from mars increases the risk" | 22:20 |
| lifeless | TresEquis: which seems entirely false to me, as it comes with tests. | 22:20 |
| TresEquis | lifeless: I said earlier in this conversation that I could see mars' fixes landed by somebody like sidnei | 22:21 |
| lifeless | ok cool. | 22:21 |
| TresEquis | who can test them | 22:21 |
| lifeless | then we're good. I will get to your subunit patch, I promise. | 22:21 |
| lifeless | now we're not house hunting I should be able to catch up with my personal projects :) | 22:22 |
| TresEquis | but I'm unwilling to see *more* features added that can't be tested by anybody working on zope.testing | 22:22 |
| mars | TresEquis, yes. I didn't even realize the subunit tests were conditional when I added them. My subunit unit test would break on those dev's workstations :( | 22:22 |
| TresEquis | if subunit support in zope.testing were automated, for instance, then I or Lennart or somebody could help get them ported to zope.testrunner (without aforementioned timesuck) | 22:23 |
| jml | sorry, I've joined late, but by "automated" you mean something more than the large number of doctests that are already present and run whenever subunit is installed? | 22:24 |
| TresEquis | zope.testing's self-dependency (it needs itself to run its own tests) has been a major stumbling block on porting zope.* code to Py3k, for instance | 22:24 |
| TresEquis | jml: they should run *always* | 22:24 |
| TresEquis | or else the code will bitrot | 22:24 |
| jml | TresEquis, what about the code in z.testrunner that only works if Python is compiled with certain options? | 22:25 |
| TresEquis | which means that getting subunit-python into the buildout (or better, the virtualenv) is crucial | 22:25 |
| TresEquis | hmm? | 22:25 |
| TresEquis | those features are tested on buildbots | 22:25 |
| jml | TresEquis, so, would it be good enough for me to set up a hudson instance (or I guess a buildbot) that runs the tests in an environment w/ subunit installed? | 22:26 |
| TresEquis | those features are also used frequently by at least some of the folks who maintain zope.testing | 22:26 |
| TresEquis | subunit isn't (yet, at least) | 22:26 |
| TresEquis | except for sidnei, apparently | 22:27 |
| jml | TresEquis, my outsider status aside, I do use subunit w/ zope.testing frequently and I do send patches | 22:27 |
| TresEquis | jml: right | 22:27 |
| TresEquis | it's just hard to do the refactoring of zope.testing / zope.testrunner without knowing whether we have broken the conditional tests | 22:28 |
| jml | TresEquis, well, you'll have to test both paths anyway as long as it's an optional dependency | 22:28 |
| TresEquis | my branch for subunit adds a distutils setup.py for the package, for instance: lifeless is going to look into merging it | 22:29 |
| jml | TresEquis, I guess you could hack up something that tweaks sys.modules or what-have-you | 22:29 |
| TresEquis | jml: we have patterns for that: e.g., the buildout has separate parts for separate Python versions, etc. | 22:29 |
| jml | oh right. | 22:29 |
| jml | buildout :) | 22:29 |
| mars | jml, I think the idea was to make subunit a required dependency for developers, but optional for users | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | jml: not everybody lives in a .deb monculture | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | mars: rithe | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | sorry, right | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | and make it trivial to install | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | I actually made a stab at doing a CMMI build *inside* the buildout | 22:30 |
| TresEquis | but ran out of tuits | 22:31 |
| jml | TresEquis, you should have read my blog post first :) | 22:31 |
| TresEquis | subunit is just a little cranky to build | 22:31 |
| jml | yep. | 22:31 |
| TresEquis | the Python bits are straightforward, though | 22:31 |
| TresEquis | at least for now | 22:31 |
| TresEquis | lp:~tseaver/subunit/add_distutils_support | 22:32 |
| TresEquis | creates an sdist which installs the library code and the tests cleanly | 22:33 |
| TresEquis | sorry, s/tests/filters/ | 22:33 |
| jml | TresEquis, have you verified that this makes a usable egg for your purposes? | 22:34 |
| mars | lifeless, does your testtools traceback branch obsolete my zope.testing traceback branch? | 22:35 |
| lifeless | I don't think so | 22:35 |
| mars | ok | 22:35 |
| TresEquis | jml: that was at the end of the tuit stack, too | 22:36 |
| meoblast001 | hi | 22:37 |
| TresEquis | I did verify that it made an sdist installable in a virtualenv | 22:37 |
| TresEquis | and that the filter scripts could run with '--help' | 22:37 |
| mars | lifeless, actually, it looks like they are unrelated. testtools can't handle utf-8 : neither could the zope.testing subunit output. Same bug, different pieces of code. | 22:37 |
| TresEquis | meaning that they could import subunit | 22:37 |
| lifeless | mars: right | 22:37 |
| lifeless | mars: the testtools fix that mgz is doing is rather deeper | 22:37 |
| jml | TresEquis, cool. | 22:37 |
| lifeless | mars: because pedants | 22:37 |
| meoblast001 | i have a friend who uses Windows who will be testing a project i'm working on.... he installed Python 2.6.5, Bazaar, and Bazaar Explorer, but he gets a cannot execute bzr error | 22:38 |
| jml | TresEquis, I guess ideally I'd like to know it works before I merge it, particularly since setup.py's are quite hard to test automatically. | 22:38 |
| lifeless | mars: and interestingly I've got a patch I'm looking at right now to address a similar cause in subunit itself | 22:38 |
| mars | lifeless, yes, I thought about finding and fixing traceback inputs for all of 5 minutes before moving to a defensive code solution | 22:38 |
| TresEquis | jml: one trivial test is to run 'python setup.py --long-description', or whatever, and examine the output | 22:39 |
| TresEquis | which at least guards against syntax errors | 22:39 |
| mgz | lp:~mars/zope.testing/fix-subunit-utf8-traceback-reporting right? | 22:39 |
| TresEquis | but the folks doing the release-to-PyPI are the ultimate watchdogs | 22:39 |
| TresEquis | which works because they rely on setup.py to do that task | 22:40 |
| lifeless | mars: yes | 22:40 |
| lifeless | bah | 22:40 |
| lifeless | toomanyms | 22:40 |
| jml | TresEquis, I don't know who's going to do that :) | 22:40 |
| lifeless | mgz: yes | 22:40 |
| mars | mgz, yep. We had a crash where the traceback coming into the code could be uft8, unicode or ASCII. And it is in a testrunner, so for the tb contensts, anything goes! | 22:40 |
| mgz | it's similar in that it adds handling for arbitrary bytestrings as tracebacks. | 22:40 |
| lifeless | jml: I'm happy for any subunit committer, which includes you, to upload stuff to pypi - I'd like them all to have permissions. | 22:41 |
| lifeless | in fact | 22:41 |
| lifeless | I'd like a lp-group-to-pypi-project permission syncer | 22:41 |
| lifeless | I can has automation please? | 22:41 |
| jml | lifeless, LP has APIs. Don't know about PyPI | 22:41 |
| mgz | the branch for testtools is more like changing your OutputFormatter.format_traceback code to always return unicode | 22:41 |
| mgz | but both are trying to squish the same kind of problem. | 22:42 |
| lifeless | jml: it has a web UI at lesat ;) | 22:42 |
| TresEquis | jml: Stephan Richter has some script he uses to bless / blast users with perms for zope.* packages | 22:42 |
| jml | lifeless, and james_w has beautifulsoup matchers. you should write the syncer now :) | 22:42 |
| james_w | \o/ | 22:43 |
| james_w | did you see my bug about matchers and addDetail? | 22:43 |
| jml | no, I didn't. | 22:43 |
| TresEquis | PyPI speaks xmlrpc, I think: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPiXmlRpc | 22:44 |
| james_w | Mismatches should have a way to persuade assertThat to call addDetail with a bunch of Content if it fails due to them | 22:44 |
| james_w | I want to stop the Mistmatch.describe() methods in soupmatchers stop printing the whole html, as that's a terrible idea, but I would love to provide it for looking at if desired | 22:45 |
| jml | TresEquis, if I merge this patch into trunk but don't release, will that help / unblock you? | 22:46 |
| lifeless | james_w: oh thats a great aidea | 22:47 |
| lifeless | james_w: please do it | 22:47 |
| lifeless | james_w: I suggest a query interface on Mismatch | 22:47 |
| lifeless | james_w: get_details, or something | 22:47 |
| james_w | I suggested an attribute, but that works fine | 22:47 |
| lifeless | and then, assertThat can do 'for content in Mismatch.get_details: self.addDetail(unique_name, content)' | 22:48 |
| lifeless | or roughly that | 22:48 |
| james_w | bug 591327 | 22:48 |
| lifeless | adjust as you please | 22:48 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 591327 in testtools "Please allow Mismatches to add detail to the result (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591327 | 22:48 |
| lifeless | these abstractions are feeling really right | 22:49 |
| james_w | yeah | 22:49 |
| james_w | though of adding disposition to Content? | 22:49 |
| james_w | thought | 22:49 |
| lifeless | mm | 22:49 |
| james_w | as in inline/attachment | 22:49 |
| james_w | which could be interpreted by a runner as to whether to display by default? | 22:50 |
| lifeless | I don't think it belongs there | 22:50 |
| mgz | derailing the Matchers topic a bit, did anyone play my spot-the-difference from earlier? http://paste.ubuntu.com/447885/ | 22:50 |
| lifeless | content maps well to email, http, disk files | 22:50 |
| lifeless | what to do and how to address it is a wrapper issue - IMO, I may well be wrong | 22:50 |
| TresEquis | jml: we aren't really unblocked meaningfully until we can either install 'subunit-python' from PyPI (or another URL) | 22:51 |
| TresEquis | or else build subunit inside the buildout | 22:51 |
| TresEquis | I prefer the former at this point ;) | 22:51 |
| jml | TresEquis, ok. that's good to know. | 22:51 |
| TresEquis | if somebody made the sdist from that branch and put it up somewhere "permanent" | 22:51 |
| james_w | plus there's my testtools merge request if someone wants to take a look? | 22:52 |
| TresEquis | then we could point to that URL in the 'find-links' bit for the buildout | 22:52 |
| jml | TresEquis, I'm a little reluctant to release subunit right now, mostly because it's too much of a context switch and I'm not 100% the setup.py does what we want. Also I have to leave for a flight in ~30mins | 22:52 |
| james_w | (t-i-p IRC channel?) | 22:52 |
| jml | james_w, yeah, let's | 22:52 |
| TresEquis | and procede accordingly | 22:52 |
| lifeless | james_w: that is #python-testing | 22:52 |
| jml | TresEquis, but I'll try to get to it tomorrow or next week, and try prodding lifeless to get there first :) | 22:56 |
| jml | mgz, nothing stands out | 22:57 |
| TresEquis | jml: OK -- in the meanwhile, sidnei or gary_poster or somebody with subunit-fu can go ahead and do the merge of mars' branch | 22:58 |
| jml | TresEquis, cool. | 22:59 |
| mgz | indeed. only printing the actual line for the Mismatch would help, and putting the whole thing as an attachement as was being discussed | 22:59 |
| jelmer | lifeless: so, bug 309682 | 23:35 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 309682 in Bazaar Subversion Plugin "tags are copied but their revisions may not be (affected: 0, heat: 9)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309682 | 23:35 |
| jelmer | james_w: ^ | 23:36 |
| jelmer | I'm wondering if the right approach is to fetch all revisions for which we have tags | 23:36 |
| james_w | jelmer: I'd be happy with that | 23:53 |
| james_w | jelmer: would it be any more expensive for bzr-svn? | 23:54 |
| jelmer | james_w: not particularly | 23:55 |
| jelmer | james_w: of course if there's a revision tagged that doesn't have any relation to the mainline it will mean fetching more data | 23:56 |
| jelmer | but that doesn't seem unreasonable | 23:56 |
| lifeless | jelmer: I think we should do that | 23:57 |
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