[13:02] <mpt> hi aday
[13:02] <aday> mpt: hey
[13:02] <aday> how's it going?
[13:02] <mpt> It looks like the Fridge Calendar lost the meeting
[13:02] <mpt> hello godbyk-sagan
[13:02] <godbyk-sagan> morning
[13:02] <thorwil> hi mpt, aday, godbyk-sagan
[13:03] <mpt> hi thorwil
[13:03] <aday> thorwil: hi
[13:03] <mpt> And I spy vish and wers here too
[13:03] <wers> oh it's 8 already i didnt notice
[13:03] <thorwil> so my first ever Evolution alarm worked out
[13:03] <wers> hello everyone
[13:03] <thorwil> hi wers
[13:03] <wers> hi thorwil :)
[13:04] <vish> hey mpt  , happy b'day :)
[13:04] <mpt> thanks vish
[13:04] <aday> oh yeah, happy birthday mpt! :)
[13:04] <wers> vish, it really is his birthday? Happy birthday mpt ! :)
[13:04] <thorwil> happy birthday, mpt!
[13:05] <vish> wers: well , > http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/d0od/~3/nAbzk6XC7dI/how-shy-blueberry-crusher-stumbled-upon.html
[13:06] <aday> vish: ha ha
[13:06] <aday> lovely!
[13:06] <mpt> Soooooo, I don't have anything on the agenda for today
[13:06] <mpt> I was hoping ivanka would talk about the heuristic bug tagging, but she's off at LinuxTag
[13:07] <mpt> djsiegel is busy writing a post for design.canonical.com about the UX advocates project
[13:07] <mpt> That should be up sometime today.
[13:08] <mpt> Does anyone else have a project they'd like to propose, or anything they'd like to discuss?
[13:08] <wers> if it's okay to raise this, i'd like to talk about Murrine...
[13:08] <thorwil> well, i still wonder how to put ayatana on rails (no ruby)
[13:09] <wers> there are new stuff lately, but too few people are aware of them and are using them. i asked cimi if there's a theme that showcases that new stuff, but he said there's non. i believe that the gtk+ theme is a big enough part of the whole UX
[13:10] <wers> just tell me if it's offtopic :)
[13:10] <mpt> wers, do you mean more people should be testing theme changes in Maverick? Or something else?
[13:10] <wers> that one too. people aren't utilizing the engine we have
[13:11] <wers> i want to see the nice new stuff in Light
[13:12] <mpt> wers, so what do you mean by "there's new stuff lately"?
[13:12] <wers> There are new engine options that significantly (IMHO) change the look of widgets
[13:13] <vish> wers: kwwii is actually supposed to be posting shortly more in detail about the new changes > http://design.canonical.com/2010/05/last-week-in-london-and-brussels/
[13:13] <wers> vish, thanks. will look at it
[13:14] <vish> and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Murrine
[13:15] <mpt> Once there's a PPA or something to test, we could crank up the publicity machine
[13:15] <wers> vish, cool. i hope, it's update though
[13:15] <mpt> for testers
[13:15] <vish> not up-to-date , but should be updated ;)
[13:16] <aday> we could talk about the next version of the hig...
[13:16] <mpt> indeed we could
[13:16] <wers> aday, what's going on there lately?
[13:16] <aday> wers: not much ;) calum's been doing some work reviewing existing material - seeing what can be reused
[13:17] <vish> aday: mpt: i ran across an interesting bug , interesting in the sense a user experience > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/587896
[13:17] <aday> we'd like to have a substantial portion of the hig done before the big 3.0
[13:18] <vish> the user  has been trying to use the option "Copy image" in firefox/chrome and imagining it to work the same way as a "Copy" from nautilus
[13:18] <mpt> aday, so I need to stop procrastinating and start writing? :-)
[13:19] <aday> mpt: we're having a session at guadec where we're hopefully going to get some writing done, and the documentation team have offered to help out
[13:19] <aday> the problem is that most usability types don't have the time or inclination to work on it in their own time
[13:20] <aday> mpt: some input would be great! :)
[13:21] <mpt> okay
[13:22] <aday> mpt: perhaps we could try and recruit some others? once the process is going that could be easier
[13:23] <mpt> aday, good idea, but I don't know how we'd do that
[13:23] <aday> the problem is that it is quite specialised work
[13:24] <thorwil> which tends to be a full time job for few people, if it is meant to happen efficiently
[13:24] <mpt> yes, you need to be good at writing *and* at thinking of things that programmers get wrong
[13:25] <mpt> Maybe one way to distribute it would be to find people who have done design evaluations of bits of Gnome stuff
[13:25] <mpt> And see if their specific points are generalizable. Then they could be written up by someone who's good at writing even if they're not necessarily good at design themselves.
[13:26] <mpt> Maybe that's a wacky idea, I don't know
[13:27] <wers> how about using other HIGs floating around online as pegs? hmmm
[13:27] <thorwil> the big topic for the next version are patterns, right?
[13:27] <aday> thorwil: right
[13:28] <thorwil> should we dare to bring that to the ayatana ml?
[13:29] <mpt> It's worth a try :-)
[13:29] <aday> my concern would be the quality of the contributions... but something is better than nothing :)
[13:29] <thorwil> mpt: then lets's talk about the best angle of attack
[13:29] <mpt> thorwil, maybe ask specifically for people to brainstorm patterns -- e.g. in a pad.ubuntu-uk.org document
[13:31] <aday> this is our existing list of patterns: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG/ThreeZero/LondonHackfestNotes
[13:32] <mpt> thorwil, would you like to take care of that?
[13:32] <thorwil> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ui-patterns
[13:32] <aday> this could be a good task for those studying usability stuff
[13:32] <thorwil> mpt: initial push, yes, at least
[13:32] <mpt> ok, thanks
[13:33] <mpt> I think this is something godbyk-sagan is interested in, too
[13:33] <mpt> particularly the overall structure of the guidelines
[13:34] <mpt> Anything else about the HIG?
[13:34] <mpt> thorwil, you said something about Ayatana on rails?
[13:34] <godbyk-sagan> Yeah, I would love to help out with the HIG, if I can carve out some time to do so.
[13:34] <thorwil> mpt: i feel it's still a lot of hot air, not enough structure/guidance
[13:35] <mpt> thorwil, you mean the mailing list is?
[13:35] <thorwil> yes
[13:35] <mpt> That's true
[13:35] <thorwil> mpt: apparently there's not even a clear idea of a design/artwork separation
[13:36] <mpt> That's maybe not so much of a problem. There'll always be overlap between them.
[13:37] <mpt> I think ayatana@ is a bundle of energy that just needs more things to do. :-)
[13:37] <thorwil> perhaps. but look at the double-click thing
[13:38] <vish> !test
[13:38] <aday> got to run, i'm afraid. see you all next week :)
[13:38] <godbyk-sagan> See you later, aday.
[13:39] <thorwil> just a tiny bit of structuring from my side and we got an overview and mockups and best of all: some consensus. but what is happening now with it?
[13:39] <mpt> thorwil, I haven't caught up to that thread, so I don't know
[13:40] <mpt> I'll try to go through it today.
[13:40] <thorwil> cool
[13:43] <mpt> ok, if we have nothing else for this week, I have another meeting to get ready for :-)
[13:43] <mpt> thank you all
[13:43] <thorwil> cya!
[13:44] <godbyk-sagan> See you next week.
[13:44] <vish> bye , /me catches up with logs , seems i was disconneted for a bit in the middle ;p
[13:44] <wers> see you next week :)