[04:28] Fresh builds are up at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/. [05:11] http://twitpic.com/1w0ni3/full [05:16] nice [05:16] maybe offer some common destinations, too. (in addition to your search box note) [05:17] I was going to, but then I realised there are big fat links up above, and below [05:17] I'll keep thinking about it [05:17] yeah, I considered that, too. [05:18] ideally, I'd like it to analyze the url you're trying to get to and figure out where you're trying to go and link you there. [05:18] (easier said than done.) [05:18] haha === \vish is now known as vish [09:05] morning [09:09] morning! [09:09] hey thorwil o/ [09:11] hmm, i will have only a few minutes at the start of today's meeting [09:13] I will be busy revising and not pay loads of attention [10:33] c7p: how is the release of your translation going? [10:35] ubuntujenkins: godbyk is working on the tex files, checking that everything is fine in there. In the same time he is making a list of everything that needs to be done before the release of a translated edition. [10:36] I'm waiting today's meeting to learn the actual date :) [10:37] yea i have the link to the list of stuff. I am hoping to give godbyk a hand with some of the next ones as I think we will have 4 at once soon [10:38] ubuntujenkins: are you working going to work on this link: http://typewith.me/rE4pCABOXs or another ? [10:40] I do have that link I am going to try and speak with godby-k about what needs doing etc. [10:41] ok if you need another hand I can always help ;) [10:41] cool I will let you know [10:41] nice [11:30] is there a server edition of the manual being worked on? [11:30] no there is not I am afraid [11:31] dns53: this might be of interest https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/497834 [11:31] Launchpad bug 497834 in ubuntu-docs "Ubuntu Server Guide isn't aesthetically appealing." [Wishlist,Confirmed] [11:31] also the current server guide is https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/index.html [11:34] thx [11:35] no problem :) === ubuntujenkins_ is now known as ubuntujenkins [16:01] godbyk / godbyk-sagan ping [18:26] ubuntujenkins: I just got back home. Let me fix something for lunch and then I'll be right with you. [18:27] godbyk-sagan: cool no rush [18:29] godbyk-sagan: btw, you going down in RSA [18:29] :P [18:29] ras? [18:29] Republic of South Africa ;) [18:29] o yea your going down godbyk-sagan :P [18:30] \join #england [18:38] Uh-oh, what'd I do to the South Africans now? [18:38] usa vs england in the world cup [18:38] Aha [18:39] So you're talking about soccer? [18:39] no, real football [18:39] where you actually use your foot [18:39] no we are talking about football :P [18:40] they are talking about watching silly people run around a grass field kicking a ball around =P [18:47] godbyk I would like to discuss the process that the manual goes through after the translations are complete and what i can do to help. [18:48] when you have finished eating :) [19:29] Hey, ubuntujenkins. I'm back now. [19:31] hey godbyk [19:32] So I don't have a formal checklist yet. It's something that c7p and I have been taking notes on as we go along. [19:32] But we should create an actual checklist so we don't forget things. [19:32] cool I have the check list book marked. [19:33] is \ldots with a lower case l or i becasue in launchpad they look the same [19:33] l for line [19:33] It's a lowercase L. [19:33] thats what i thought allot of people are putting i [19:33] Yeah, they're wrong. :) [19:34] right [19:34] i'm watching the football [19:34] hmm the pad link i have does not work [19:34] bye [19:34] bye dutchie [19:34] See ya, dutchie. [19:34] 1-0 england \o/ [19:34] within 4 mins [19:34] ubuntujenkins: Let me find my link to it again. [19:35] also the first {} in \newglossaryentry is often translated [19:35] Yeah, it shouldn't be. [19:35] Nor should the \gls and \glspl commands be translated. [19:36] I think those are the most commom mistakes that are not on the list already [19:36] Nor should the \label, \ref, pageref, \chaplink, \seclink, etc. commands be translated. [19:36] can we add it to the pad? [19:36] Sure, if you like. [19:36] Do you have the pad link? [19:37] I do but it doesn't work [19:37] http://www.typewith.me/rE4pCABOXs [19:38] acording to http://downorisitjustme.com/ the site is down [19:38] nice. [19:38] I thought I had one on Etherpad, but perhaps not. [19:39] do you have a local copy? [19:39] Nope. [19:39] Let's just create a new one. [19:39] We can update it with typewith.me comes back online. [19:40] yea cool , so apart from that list what else gets done. [19:40] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo [19:53] that list looks good [19:53] That covers a lot of it. [19:53] I'm sure I'll add more things as I encounter them. [19:54] It'd be nice if we have a web page where the translator editors could go to see where they're at on the checklist or something. [19:54] So we can see how far along things are. [19:54] good idea we need to respond to surst's e-mail about the german on [19:56] I'll email him right now. [19:56] cool, I am just looking for stuff I don't know how to do in latex [19:57] how do you change the paper size? [19:57] I will be back in 5 to 10 mins [19:57] ubuntujenkins: the paper size gets changed automatically based on the language. [19:58] (if it doesn't, then I need to edit the .cls file to set it properly.) [20:02] Okay, email sent. [20:07] cool as far as the small caps formating where would that be changed? [20:08] Well, it depends. [20:08] So with the German translation, for instance, he wanted the running heads to be different. [20:09] With other translations, we have to use fonts that don't have small-caps. [20:09] So it depends on the situation. [20:09] running heads being .... [20:09] to ask a silly question :) [20:09] Running heads are the bits at the top of the page with the page number and the book title and chapter title. [20:09] Nope, it's not a silly question at all. I'm guessing the vast majority of the people in the world have absolutely no idea what a running head is. :) [20:09] ok cool [20:10] whilst i don't forget shrini asked me to ask you about the japanise caracters on the side of evince they should be tamil [20:11] Uh... [20:11] No clue on that one. [20:11] I had no clue where to look at all [20:11] o we will have to look into it [20:11] I'll have to ask him when I see him next. [20:12] I'm not sure where Japanese characters would be coming from. [20:12] if you look at it its really obvious that they are not tamil [20:12] So previously, I was building 2 PDFs at a time when I built all the translations. [20:12] When my new computer I'm doing 8 at a time. It's a lot faster. :) [20:12] eight what are your specs? [20:13] way more people have an idea of a running nose than of a running head [20:13] Where am I looking for the Japanese characters, ubuntujenkins? [20:13] thorwil: I bet! [20:14] thorwil: It looks like we may have to whip up a Tamil title page soon. [20:14] godbyk: on the index pain of evince [20:14] thorwil: After I find a font that isn't horrible. [20:14] (Not many Tamil fonts out there, it seems.) [20:15] I just grabbed the Tamil PDF from the builds page. And the index pane on mine (which shows the chapters, etc.) has Tamil and English text there. [20:15] godbyk: oh, Tamil has been very low of my list based on a snapshot of translations status way back [20:15] thorwil: I know. They spiked up this past week. A lot! [20:16] ok then its an issue with ones built on my computer, the tamil text works but not the index appantly [20:16] They're in 7th place right now. [20:16] ubuntujenkins: Oh, that could be. I'm not building the index right now. [20:17] godbyk: I need to redo the index rules they work but they way I did it is not 100% the correct way. I need to get my exam on tuesday out the way first [20:17] No worries. [20:18] We should write up instructions for ourselves on how to do the indexing, too. [20:18] We'll also need to take a look at hyphenation patterns. [20:18] they are really easy once you know how. I will do instructions. A lot depends on the language. [20:18] hyphenation patterns in what sense? [20:18] If they're not in LaTeX already, I think we can steal them from OpenOffice.org. [20:19] Hyphenation patterns tell LaTeX where it's okay to break a word at the end of the line (hyphenate it). [20:19] http://ubuntuone.com/p/6kf/ is tamil built on my computer . [20:19] Without being able to hyphenate words, the spacing isn't nearly as good (lines run too long or too short). [20:19] ok that make sense [20:20] ubuntujenkins: weird. yeah, something barfed there. we'll have to look into it. [20:20] once i get the index correct then we know its not that [20:20] right [20:20] also there is a two page gap before the index [20:21] Yeah, I recall having to fix that manually with the English edition, too. [20:21] Let's add that to the checklist. [20:21] godbyk: regarding hyphenation, seen http://code.google.com/p/hyphenator/ ? [20:22] thorwil: Cool! [20:22] I think browsers should have built-in hyphenation (and CSS should support H&J rules) [20:23] godbyk: that's what i have been thinking, too. but what can you expect from people who think it's alright to draw underlines right through descenders? ;) [20:24] godbyk: seeing how adding lots of the hard way is not practical at all, this script is the best available solution [20:25] I s'pose. It just seems like they're coming at it from the wrong direction. [20:25] Hyphenation shouldn't be some post-hoc decoration, y'know? [20:29] no doubt browsers doing it themselves would beat this [20:29] but it is a relief to see this in action. text on the web starts to suck less quite a bit :) [20:29] Hey, thorwil, you have a nice, large collection of typefaces, right? [20:29] Definitely. [20:30] ok thanks godbyk I think i can help translators with most of the list [20:30] godbyk: not here on my lucid install [20:30] ubuntujenkins: cool. If there are things you can't help with let me know and I'll try to teach you. [20:30] It's always best if multiple people know how something works. [20:30] thorwil: Ah, bummer. I wrote a script that scans the fonts on your system and lists all of the fonts that support a particular script. [20:30] Was hoping you had a nice Tamil font that I didn't have. [20:31] I'm not terribly thrilled with the one we're using right now. [20:31] godbyk: I would like to learn as well :) . with item 10 where do the translated items go in the .tex file? [20:31] I find tamil looks better if you increase the font size [20:31] ubuntujenkins: They go in the um-LANGUAGE.clo file. [20:31] godbyk: if the "on your system" can be stretched a bit, i could check the font dir on my other partition [20:31] I have to in gedit when working with it for the index [20:31] (I need to update the um-template.clo file to be more comprehensive.) [20:31] thanks godbyk [20:32] thorwil: Sure. You just edit the file and change the list of paths it searches. [20:32] thorwil: I'll email it to you. [20:33] I ment to send a meeting reminder to the list and sent it to ben! [20:34] lol [20:34] he probably needs one, too! :) [20:35] godbyk the list that we are working on is http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo ? [20:35] c7p: At the moment. Your site was down, so we started recreating the list. [20:35] I wondered why the mail wasn't on the list sent it now [20:37] who is chairing the meeting ? [20:37] ben i guess [20:37] If he shows up. :) [20:37] :) [20:39] * ubuntujenkins learns more about three phase generators [20:52] team: do we have any meeting now? [20:52] in 8 mins shrini [20:52] ubuntujenkins: thanks [20:52] oh no [20:52] can we delay it half an hour or so? [20:52] what dutchie ? [20:53] the football is not that important [20:53] i can't watch the match and do a meeting at the same time [20:53] ubuntujenkins: USA equalised :( [20:53] nearly took the lead just then [20:53] put it on head phones I am listening as i have no tv licence [20:53] raido 5 :) [20:54] probably better than the ITV coverage [20:54] their HD channel went to adverts for the first goal [20:54] what that sucks [20:54] Look, you know we're going to win, so you probably don't really want to watch anyway. [20:55] you stick to playing sports that nobody else bothers with [20:55] lol [20:55] You couldn't handle real football. :) [20:55] i have actually played american football [20:56] so :P [20:56] yes we could a real footbal os round [20:56] *is [20:56] dutchie: Just once, eh? I rest my case. [20:56] godbyk: i have played it many times actually [20:56] i am actually not bad [20:57] (by the standards of my friends) [20:57] I pretty much suck at all sports. So I don't pay any attention to them. [20:57] I have only really palyed rugby which is much better as there is no padding [20:57] not a massive fan of playing rugby [20:58] I don't play it much [20:58] aren't you obligated to play sport at loughborough anyway? ;) [20:58] no, only if you do a course that is sport [20:59] loughbrough is good at engineering as well [21:00] * dutchie wonders what godbyk's attempt at pronouncing "loughborough" is like [21:00] minutes for people to read whilst we wait https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [21:01] I ment agenda [21:01] I saw your previous discussions on the 'proper' pronunciation. [21:01] Hi. [21:01] greetings [21:01] Hey, guys. [21:01] * flan needs to stop getting distracted. [21:01] hi [21:02] godbyk: bet you can't pronounce my city [21:02] hello everyone [21:02] hmm no ben yet [21:02] Well, shall we get started or wait for more stragglers? [21:02] I'm gonna start beinging my Eee with me on the train. [21:03] godbyk: Are we missing anyone you'r expecting (besides benjamin)? [21:04] godbyk: i'm about to disappear, actually [21:04] semioticrobotic: also ilya [21:04] I'm not sure if Ilya was planning to be here or not. [21:04] We'll get started then. [21:04] ubuntujenkins: Ah! Yes, of course. [21:04] I may go through the agenda in a different order in case Ilya or Ben pops in late. [21:04] yea we should get started [21:05] good plan [21:05] Okay, so first up, let's talk about the Lucid first edition translations. [21:05] don't for get the meeting bot [21:05] As you can see from here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual [21:05] a number of translations have been completed. [21:05] Many of them are currently in the editing/proofreading phase. [21:06] I think the German and Greek translations have progressed just beyond that. [21:06] godbyk: not going to do a #startmeeting? [21:06] well done to the translators [21:06] #startmeeting [21:06] Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is godbyk. [21:06] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [21:06] just for dutchie [21:06] \o/ [21:06] agreed. well done translation teams! [21:06] [TOPIC] Lucid first-edition translations [21:06] New Topic: Lucid first-edition translations [21:07] So with the help of c7p and ubuntujenkins, we have a rough check-list of items that need to be completed for each translation: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo [21:07] We will probably continue adding to this as we encounter new issues. [21:08] Each translation team has an assigned translation editor: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TranslationEditors [21:08] The translation editor is in charge of communicating with the rest of the Ubuntu Manual team to ensure that each of the steps on that checklist is completed [21:08] godbyk: maybe mention the lulu cover, too? [21:09] and will have the final say on when we publish that translation. [21:09] thorwil: Good idea. Add that in there someplace. [21:09] gotcha [21:09] can people add irc nicks in another column to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/TranslationEditors [21:09] ubuntujenkins: sure. [21:09] Hello All, Sorry I am late. [21:09] Does anyone have any questions about the general process for releasing the first edition translations? [21:10] Hey, ChrisWoollard. No worries. We're just getting started. [21:10] :) [21:10] Okay, if there's nothing else to add, we'll move on to the next topic. [21:11] [TOPIC] Lucid second edition release schedule [21:11] New Topic: Lucid second edition release schedule [21:11] Currently, the release date for the second edition of the Lucid manual is 29 July. [21:11] (5 days after my birthday \o/) [21:11] aha [21:11] We don't have any particular alpha/beta/etc. release dates scheduled, but we can add them in if we feel the need. [21:12] ok [21:12] hi [21:12] The second edition will contain all the bug fixes and last minute material that we didn't have time to clean up for the first edition. [21:12] Hey, humphreybc-mini. [21:12] hi humphreybc-mini [21:12] I think we've fixed a pretty large number of bugs in the second edition already. [21:12] But we should continue doing read-throughs to find more bugs. [21:13] It sure seems like it [21:13] The second edition will be the manual that hangs around with the LTS release, so it may be used for some years yet. [21:13] humphreybc-mini: has the winner of the competion be told that they won? [21:13] good point [21:13] bug comp^ [21:13] ubuntujenkins: Well, I have to actually figure out who won [21:13] I've only had one person tell me they have done 10 buigs [21:13] bugs* [21:13] Just out of interest. Are specifica people responsible for checking different chapters or anything like that [21:13] Are they supposed to notify you, or do they expect you to tally up the results? [21:14] I think about 3-4 people at a guess i have not actually looked . [21:14] hi [21:14] godbyk: I didn' [21:14] hey daker [21:14] ChrisWoollard: Nope. It's a free-for-all. [21:14] I didnt say, but I expect the latter [21:14] There was one guy that logged a good hundred bugs [21:14] I need to tally em up [21:14] Is there an end date to the competition? [21:14] nope [21:15] oh [21:15] well [21:15] 2nd edition release I guess [21:15] humphreybc-mini: We should set an end date so we have time to get the contributor names in the second edition of the manual. [21:15] true [21:15] I'll get onto all that at the end of next week [21:15] Okay. [21:15] Any other questions about the release of the second edition? [21:15] I think this guy logged a lot of bugs [21:15] what about the bug tracking of the translated edition? [21:15] https://edge.launchpad.net/~marc.stewart [21:16] when is it? or did i miss that? [21:16] I have a quick question [21:16] found it 29th july [21:16] ubuntujenkins: The second edition will be released 29 July. [21:16] (5 days after my birthday \o/) [21:16] semioticrobotic: ask away [21:17] Could someone clarify the syntax for linking specific fixed bugs in bzr commit anotations? [21:17] I see people have been doing that; it's very cool, and I want to do it [21:17] bzr commit --fixes lp: [21:17] does that automatically mark the bug as fixed? [21:17] don't think so [21:17] * humphreybc-mini confesses that he hasn't looked at the branch in two months [21:18] ok [21:18] i think it will do if the branch ends up in the main line [21:18] semioticrobotic: Running 'bzr help bugs' will show you some examples, too. [21:18] so after committing and pushing, manually mark the bug [21:18] thanks, godbyk [21:18] semioticrobotic: Yeah, that's what I've been doing: fix, push, mark the bug manually. [21:18] I thought the procedure was to mark the bug as fix commited until the release. [21:19] ChrisWoollard: It is. [21:19] :) [21:19] ... but I didn't know if that had to happen manually [21:19] Once the bug has been fixed and commit, mark it as 'Fix Committed' [21:19] yes [21:19] gotcha [21:19] thanks for the clarification [21:19] 'Fix released' will be what we set those bugs to after the final PDF and book have been released. [21:19] ok [21:19] Which basically means it's in the branch, ready for a release [21:19] Right. [21:20] Okay, any other questions about the second edition release? [21:20] question: What about the bug tracking of the translated editions? The http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/ isn't working. [21:20] Of course, since this is a book, our releases aren't super defined because we're always releasing things... it's really a rolling release [21:20] c7p: You can file them in Launchpad, if you like. [21:20] c7p: tell me asap about bugs.u-m.o outages [21:20] i'll sort in a moment [21:20] c7p: Yeah, Launchpad is the best until we get the new site design up with new bug form [21:20] c7p: Also, you can pester dutchie about the bugs page. [21:21] Any other questions? [21:21] are we winning? [21:21] Okay, since humphreybc-mini's here, we'll move on to some of his agenda items. [21:21] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manual Project Philosophy [21:21] New Topic: Ubuntu Manual Project Philosophy [21:21] ah [21:21] yes [21:21] I have been working on this [21:21] sort of [21:22] So basically, here's more or less the near final version of this thing [21:22] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/axMP6X6TIq [21:22] LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/axMP6X6TIq [21:23] how embarrassing [21:23] (the football) [21:23] lol [21:23] Why [21:23] 1-1 draw [21:23] which game [21:24] england v usa [21:24] shocking game [21:24] haha [21:24] Oh dear [21:24] I should know that [21:24] dutchie: We'll take that as a win, then. [21:24] * ChrisWoollard pretends he cares [21:24] haha :P [21:24] That is tragic [21:24] godbyk: your lack of understanding of the game is obvious [21:24] Hilarious [21:24] but tragic [21:24] straneg [21:25] humphreybc-mini: Do we have anything we need to discuss about the mission statement / philosophy, or are we just reading through it? [21:25] i don't see NZ at the world cup [21:25] godbyk Just reading through. If you have any suggestions, make some comments on the pad [21:25] dutchie: Amusingly, despite our obvious lack of understand, we've managed to keep you at bay. Oh, superiority! [21:25] Okay. [21:26] let's get through the meeting, then godbyk can gloat [21:26] yep [21:26] Does anyone have any questions, comments, suggestions, criticisms, etc. about the philosophy/mission statement stuff? (It'll take a bit of time to read through, so you can pester us on the list or in here later if you like.) [21:26] Stephen Fry didn't predict a draw: http://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/15995140379 [21:26] Okay, moving along then. :) [21:27] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Support and Learning Center [21:27] New Topic: Ubuntu Support and Learning Center [21:27]