| === ian_brasil_ is now known as ian_brasil | ||
| === rsalveti-away is now known as rsalveti | ||
| === rsalveti_ is now known as rsalveti | ||
| === James is now known as Guest74477 | ||
| Guest74477 | Hello, I'm using rootstock and am using --matchbox-desktop for a seed but I don't get a bootable desktop in qemu. | 12:25 |
|---|---|---|
| Guest74477 | Is there other seeds I need to use? | 12:26 |
| Guest74477 | x.org possibly? | 12:26 |
| Guest74477 | ^? | 12:28 |
| Guest74477 | ogra, ? | 12:32 |
| cwillu | Guest74477, matchbox-desktop isn't a full desktop environment | 12:55 |
| Guest74477 | I downloaded the matchbox-panel, matchbox-window-manager , libmatchbox | 12:56 |
| Guest74477 | matchbox-common | 12:56 |
| Guest74477 | Its for an embedded device | 13:02 |
| cwillu | yes, but some assembly is required with that package | 13:03 |
| Guest74477 | Do I need to build from source? | 13:04 |
| cwillu | no, you need to play with it in an otherwise already working machine (virtual or otherwise), and learn how the pieces fit together | 13:04 |
| Guest74477 | Im running it in qemu so I can | 13:04 |
| Guest74477 | The device is buttonless so Im having to design etc in a vm | 13:05 |
| cwillu | okay, but don't bite off more than you can chew | 13:05 |
| cwillu | your first step should be to get a completely standard install of some common distro working | 13:05 |
| Guest74477 | use ubuntu-desktop as the seed? | 13:06 |
| Guest74477 | It would be too heavy for the device (iPhone 3f | 13:06 |
| Guest74477 | g) | 13:06 |
| cwillu | once you know that you've got boot loaders, kernels, drivers, and so forth handled, then you can start more adventurous things | 13:06 |
| Guest74477 | We have OpeniBoot idroid kernel and almost all the drivers working on the kernel | 13:07 |
| cwillu | 'we' means you've actually had everything working yourself? | 13:07 |
| cwillu | if not, then that's your first step | 13:07 |
| cwillu | duplicating what's already been done | 13:07 |
| Guest74477 | I've had Android up and running, someone else has had debian running but isnt releasing inscrtuctions | 13:08 |
| Guest74477 | I have the boot loader and kernel and have them both running | 13:08 |
| cwillu | in the vm, how far have you gotten? | 13:09 |
| Guest74477 | The idroid kernel passes off to android kernel where as the person who installed debian used only the idroi kernel | 13:09 |
| Guest74477 | I've gotten it to boot to cli | 13:09 |
| Guest74477 | Logged in and used apt-get etc. | 13:09 |
| cwillu | did you set anything up to start x? | 13:09 |
| Guest74477 | Adde other port repo's to sources.list | 13:09 |
| Guest74477 | I got x installed and started x it just loaded a black screen | 13:10 |
| cwillu | (typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it) | 13:10 |
| Guest74477 | There wasn't an xinitrc | 13:10 |
| Guest74477 | There wasnt a gdm | 13:10 |
| Guest74477 | It was a text base login | 13:10 |
| cwillu | yes, that's what I just told you :p | 13:10 |
| Guest74477 | But that can be disabled | 13:10 |
| Guest74477 | Or should I remove it and keep it single user? | 13:11 |
| cwillu | not sure how that's relevant :) | 13:11 |
| cwillu | your problems with x aren't related to what users you have | 13:11 |
| Guest74477 | <cwillu> (typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it) | 13:11 |
| Guest74477 | Should I remove gdm :p | 13:11 |
| Guest74477 | ? | 13:11 |
| cwillu | is it installed? | 13:11 |
| Guest74477 | No, it's just text based, I thought gdm was graphical | 13:12 |
| cwillu | okay, lets try a different approach to educating you :) | 13:12 |
| cwillu | what os are you running on your desktop? | 13:12 |
| cwillu | linux of some variety? | 13:12 |
| cwillu | spend some time learning how it's actually put together, which pieces are responsible for which tasks | 13:13 |
| Guest74477 | I've been using linux on my desktop for a few years and have built by own x86 distro's I know a fair bit about building a distro it's just Im new to arm | 13:13 |
| cwillu | okay; none of your issues are really arm related at the moment | 13:13 |
| Guest74477 | I appreciate the help but that was a bit patronising | 13:13 |
| cwillu | i.e., if you can get x up at all, and so on | 13:13 |
| cwillu | you're aware that gdm is typically responsible for starting X on a desktop? | 13:14 |
| Guest74477 | Gnome display manager? | 13:14 |
| cwillu | yes | 13:14 |
| cwillu | it's the part that actually runs X on a desktop | 13:15 |
| Guest74477 | It isn't installed | 13:15 |
| Guest74477 | Niether is gnome | 13:15 |
| cwillu | yes, so what do you have to actually start x? | 13:15 |
| Guest74477 | x.org and the startx comman | 13:15 |
| Guest74477 | d | 13:15 |
| cwillu | matchbox isn't a session, it's a bunch of pieces you use to make the exact pieces you need | 13:15 |
| cwillu | iirc, there's an /etc/matchbox-session (or something like that, it might actually be in /usr/bin) which is a simple script which you need to edit | 13:16 |
| Guest74477 | Right, wouldnt it be best to use a lightweight window manager/ desktop like openbox to start a session? | 13:16 |
| Guest74477 | Then add matchbox components to xinit after they've been configured? | 13:17 |
| cwillu | sorry if I sound patronizing, it's just tricky figuring out what a given person knows vs considers obvious vs knows nothing about | 13:17 |
| Guest74477 | It's ok, thsnk | 13:17 |
| cwillu | Do you have anything in /etc/init or /etc/init.d (the first is preferred) to start x? | 13:17 |
| Guest74477 | thank you for continuing to help after I said that most wouldn't :) | 13:18 |
| Guest74477 | I've had to delete the img I made with rootstock due to an ext2 error, I didnt have the applications in the vm to fix it | 13:18 |
| Guest74477 | I'll get it set up and add all the programs again. (Making a backup with time) | 13:19 |
| cwillu | most of the scripts you'll need to work with would be identical between x86 and arm | 13:19 |
| cwillu | what you might want to do is make a normal x86 server install in a vm, and build it up inside the vm | 13:20 |
| cwillu | once you know what pieces you need, it'll be easier to poke rootstock in the right way | 13:20 |
| cwillu | you'll need something to start X, http://pastebin.com/qSaxR3xh is a copy of what I use (just dump it in /etc/init) | 13:21 |
| Guest74477 | I've done that before with x86, I started with ubuntu minimal, got a booting system installed blackbox and I was away. I can imagine it's same process with this now, but arm and embedded is still new waters, I'll let you know how iBuntu goes | 13:21 |
| cwillu | arm doesn't affect any of this though | 13:22 |
| Guest74477 | ok | 13:22 |
| cwillu | all the same packages are available | 13:22 |
| cwillu | there might be an occasional bug that's in x86 that isn't in arm, or vice verse, but in general it works exactly the same | 13:22 |
| Guest74477 | What does the -- vt7 -nr variables do for startx? | 13:22 |
| cwillu | man startx :) | 13:22 |
| cwillu | -- is the divider between parameters for the session vs parameters for the x server | 13:23 |
| cwillu | vt7 tells it to start on vt7 | 13:23 |
| Guest74477 | virtual terminal ie ctrl alt f7? | 13:23 |
| cwillu | -nr tells it not to blank the screen when x starts, so that the splash screen stays running; that probably won't work for you though, as I had to patch the omapfb driver and I don't think that change has made it into ubuntu yet | 13:24 |
| cwillu | yes, exactly | 13:24 |
| cwillu | /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ is the next place you want to look | 13:24 |
| cwillu | startx will fire off those scripts in the actual x instance | 13:25 |
| Guest74477 | That sounds like what I was doing wrong, Is the the command you send me to be saved as initrd? | 13:25 |
| cwillu | note that that includes starting a default window manager, whatever "x-window-manager" happens to link to | 13:25 |
| cwillu | :) | 13:25 |
| cwillu | no | 13:25 |
| Guest74477 | initrd is the ramdisk *facepalm* | 13:26 |
| Guest74477 | xinitrc? | 13:26 |
| cwillu | /etc/init/ is where upstart scripts go | 13:26 |
| Guest74477 | ok | 13:26 |
| cwillu | I generally call it /etc/init/xorg.conf | 13:26 |
| === kmargar is now known as markos_ | ||
| cwillu | Guest74477, I'm tarring up a copy of my modules.d (customization to rootstock), which contains a bunch of things split out into systems | 13:30 |
| cwillu | you won't be able to use it directly really, but it'll give you starting points for configuration, and clues as to where that configuration might happen | 13:30 |
| cwillu | Guest74477, http://cwillu.com/files/modules.tgz | 13:31 |
| Guest74477 | Thanks, I'll resd through them, which window manager and desktop do you use/ | 13:31 |
| cwillu | er, hang on a sec | 13:31 |
| cwillu | not sure I did what I tjhought I did | 13:31 |
| cwillu | no desktop, just a bare firefox session with a full-screen-on-startup extension, and a simple window manager (not strictly necessary, but convenient) | 13:32 |
| Guest74477 | You use Web apps? | 13:32 |
| cwillu | ya, I've been doing the ipad thing since before there was an ipad :p | 13:33 |
| Guest74477 | Heh, all you needed to do was to build a device | 13:34 |
| cwillu | mainly, I find it a very convenient to quickly make ui's, with the added bonus that the application is network-aware for free | 13:34 |
| cwillu | I actually do industrial datacapture and similar | 13:34 |
| Guest74477 | And easily portable, compatibilty with any os with a browser | 13:34 |
| cwillu | more or less | 13:35 |
| cwillu | really only care about firefox, but yes | 13:35 |
| cwillu | Guest74477, okay, download that link now | 13:37 |
| Guest74477 | I'm just untarring now | 13:37 |
| cwillu | did you download it before? | 13:37 |
| Guest74477 | Yes | 13:38 |
| cwillu | if so, you got a few megabytes of random firefox profile that you won't need :p | 13:38 |
| Guest74477 | Same url for the new file? | 13:38 |
| cwillu | yes | 13:38 |
| cwillu | frontend is the ony you're probably most interested in | 13:39 |
| cwillu | although packages has the omap3 driver with -nr support | 13:39 |
| Guest74477 | What about backend? | 13:40 |
| cwillu | that fires up the webserver; not much to it though | 13:40 |
| cwillu | the actual server code is elsewhere | 13:41 |
| cwillu | (gets pulled in from git in a customized rootstock when it builds the image) | 13:41 |
| Guest74477 | Ok, I just noticed it was /etc/init | 13:41 |
| cwillu | yep | 13:41 |
| cwillu | basically what you have there is the plumbing to get things running, without any of the actual guts | 13:41 |
| cwillu | i.e., the files in frontend/ are basically everything you'd need to change to get a program running under x | 13:42 |
| cwillu | in my case firefox, but it could be anything | 13:42 |
| cwillu | I use a separate init script for firefox itself so that it'll reopen if it dies or is closed, etc | 13:43 |
| cwillu | you could do it from in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ as well, but that just feels ugly to me | 13:43 |
| Guest74477 | So where does xinitrc fit into this or is that for individual user sessions? | 13:44 |
| cwillu | I don't use an xinitrc | 13:44 |
| cwillu | what I gave you is an overlay | 13:44 |
| Guest74477 | ok | 13:44 |
| cwillu | if you look at the contents of /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ on an actual system, you'll see how all the usual hooks are implemented | 13:44 |
| Guest74477 | Ill check on my own | 13:45 |
| cwillu | i.e., you should be able to look at your own desktop's /etc/X11/Xsession.d | 13:45 |
| cwillu | yep | 13:45 |
| cwillu | grep and find are your friends :) | 13:45 |
| Guest74477 | Dont forget locate updatedb and whereis | 13:45 |
| Guest74477 | And whatis | 13:46 |
| cwillu | for this task, grep and find are more important :p | 13:46 |
| cwillu | they're how you find out what you should be locating :) | 13:46 |
| Guest74477 | I use grep anyway | 13:46 |
| Guest74477 | :p | 13:46 |
| cwillu | also apropos and man | 13:46 |
| Guest74477 | apropos? | 13:46 |
| cwillu | a better whatis | 13:47 |
| cwillu | it's a index for man pages | 13:47 |
| cwillu | so you can say apropos session, and look through the results to see what might be related to sessions | 13:47 |
| Guest74477 | rootstock is unpacking now | 13:48 |
| cwillu | oh, a good speedup for rootstock: set up apt-cacher, and use it for rootstock | 13:48 |
| Guest74477 | Do it doesn't need to download? | 13:48 |
| Guest74477 | so* | 13:48 |
| cwillu | it holds a cache of the downloads that happen through it, so that the next time you don't need to | 13:49 |
| cwillu | yep | 13:49 |
| Guest74477 | Ill make a back up of the basic image for now :) If it works I'll probably use it then for distributing | 13:50 |
| Guest74477 | I think adding touchscreen and wifi are going to be the worst things, but there's people I can ask | 13:50 |
| cwillu | pro-tip | 13:50 |
| cwillu | don't make an image that you distribute | 13:51 |
| cwillu | make a script to generate the image | 13:51 |
| cwillu | you'll save yourself alot of frustration | 13:51 |
| cwillu | any quick hack you make to an image should be folded into your script, and tested there | 13:51 |
| cwillu | otherwise you'll forget you made a change, or forget how you did it, etc | 13:51 |
| cwillu | wifi will be easy if the device is supported at all | 13:52 |
| cwillu | touchscreen probably as well | 13:52 |
| cwillu | just a matter of including the right drivers | 13:52 |
| Guest74477 | There's kernel drivers and they work in Android | 13:52 |
| cwillu | so where's the problem? :p | 13:53 |
| Guest74477 | I have the kernel and firmware files for both, but they arn't distrobutable, but there's scripts to get them | 13:53 |
| Guest74477 | So the user will have to add them to the image anyway | 13:53 |
| cwillu | all the more reason to make a magic script that just builds the whole image :) | 13:55 |
| Guest74477 | I've just been reading your blog, what's the pypy jit actually do :) , Is it just in time? | 13:55 |
| cwillu | that's what jit stands for | 13:57 |
| cwillu | pypy is actually a jit-generator + a python interpreter written in python (actually a subset of python) | 13:58 |
| cwillu | the jit-generator takes the python interpreter, and optimizes the hell out of it, such that they're actually faster than normal python in a few cases now | 13:58 |
| * cwillu considers updating his blog | 14:01 | |
| Guest74477 | In rootstock does update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for rlogin. meen that there's no arm port of rlogin? | 14:04 |
| cwillu | why in the name of schneier would you want rlogin!? | 14:04 |
| cwillu | and no, it just means you don't have an rlogin in your package list, which is a good thing | 14:05 |
| Guest74477 | Im installing openssh with rootstock | 14:05 |
| cwillu | okay, I wouldn't worry about the error | 14:06 |
| cwillu | just checked, I get the same message; it's not actually an error | 14:06 |
| Guest74477 | lilstevie, ? | 15:22 |
| lilstevie | yes? | 15:30 |
| Guest74477 | Its James | 15:30 |
| lilstevie | ah | 15:30 |
| Guest74477 | Got it to boot yet? | 15:30 |
| lilstevie | im only around for a split second | 15:31 |
| Guest74477 | ok | 15:31 |
| Guest74477 | cwillu gave some good advice on booting to x | 15:32 |
| === suihkulo1ki is now known as suihkulokki | ||
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