=== ian_brasil_ is now known as ian_brasil
=== rsalveti-away is now known as rsalveti
=== rsalveti_ is now known as rsalveti
=== James is now known as Guest74477
Guest74477Hello, I'm using rootstock and am using --matchbox-desktop for a seed but I don't get a bootable desktop in qemu.12:25
Guest74477Is there other seeds I need to use?12:26
Guest74477x.org possibly?12:26
Guest74477ogra, ?12:32
cwilluGuest74477, matchbox-desktop isn't a full desktop environment12:55
Guest74477I downloaded the matchbox-panel, matchbox-window-manager , libmatchbox12:56
Guest74477Its for an embedded device13:02
cwilluyes, but some assembly is required with that package13:03
Guest74477Do I need to build from source?13:04
cwilluno, you need to play with it in an otherwise already working machine (virtual or otherwise), and learn how the pieces fit together13:04
Guest74477Im running it in qemu so I can13:04
Guest74477The device is buttonless so Im having to design etc in a vm13:05
cwilluokay, but don't bite off more than you can chew13:05
cwilluyour first step should be to get a completely standard install of some common distro working13:05
Guest74477use ubuntu-desktop as the seed?13:06
Guest74477It would be too heavy for the device (iPhone 3f13:06
cwilluonce you know that you've got boot loaders, kernels, drivers, and so forth handled, then you can start more adventurous things13:06
Guest74477We have OpeniBoot idroid kernel and almost all the drivers working on the kernel13:07
cwillu'we' means you've actually had everything working yourself?13:07
cwilluif not, then that's your first step13:07
cwilluduplicating what's already been done13:07
Guest74477I've had Android up and running, someone else has had debian running but isnt releasing inscrtuctions13:08
Guest74477I have the boot loader and kernel and have them both running13:08
cwilluin the vm, how far have you gotten?13:09
Guest74477The idroid kernel passes off to android kernel where as the person who installed debian used only the idroi kernel13:09
Guest74477I've gotten it to boot to cli13:09
Guest74477Logged in and used apt-get etc.13:09
cwilludid you set anything up to start x?13:09
Guest74477Adde other port repo's to sources.list13:09
Guest74477I got x installed and started x it just loaded a black screen13:10
cwillu(typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it)13:10
Guest74477There wasn't an xinitrc13:10
Guest74477There wasnt a gdm13:10
Guest74477It was a text base login13:10
cwilluyes, that's what I just told you :p13:10
Guest74477But that can be disabled13:10
Guest74477Or should I remove it and keep it single user?13:11
cwillunot sure how that's relevant :)13:11
cwilluyour problems with x aren't related to what users you have13:11
Guest74477<cwillu> (typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it)13:11
Guest74477Should I remove gdm :p13:11
cwilluis it installed?13:11
Guest74477No, it's just text based, I thought gdm was graphical13:12
cwilluokay, lets try a different approach to educating you :)13:12
cwilluwhat os are you running on your desktop?13:12
cwillulinux of some variety?13:12
cwilluspend some time learning how it's actually put together, which pieces are responsible for which tasks13:13
Guest74477I've been using linux on my desktop for a few years and have built by own x86 distro's I know a fair bit about building a distro it's just Im new to arm13:13
cwilluokay;  none of your issues are really arm related at the moment13:13
Guest74477I appreciate the help but that was a bit patronising13:13
cwillui.e., if you can get x up at all, and so on13:13
cwilluyou're aware that gdm is typically responsible for starting X on a desktop?13:14
Guest74477Gnome display manager?13:14
cwilluit's the part that actually runs X on a desktop13:15
Guest74477It isn't installed13:15
Guest74477Niether is gnome13:15
cwilluyes, so what do you have to actually start x?13:15
Guest74477x.org and the startx comman13:15
cwillumatchbox isn't a session, it's a bunch of pieces you use to make the exact pieces you need13:15
cwilluiirc, there's an /etc/matchbox-session (or something like that, it might actually be in /usr/bin) which is a simple script which you need to edit13:16
Guest74477Right, wouldnt it be best to use a lightweight window manager/ desktop like openbox to start a session?13:16
Guest74477Then add matchbox components to xinit after they've been configured?13:17
cwillusorry if I sound patronizing, it's just tricky figuring out what a given person knows vs considers obvious vs knows nothing about13:17
Guest74477It's ok, thsnk13:17
cwilluDo you have anything in /etc/init or /etc/init.d (the first is preferred) to start x?13:17
Guest74477thank you for continuing to help after I said that most wouldn't :)13:18
Guest74477I've had to delete the img I made with rootstock due to an ext2 error, I didnt have the applications in the vm to fix it13:18
Guest74477I'll get it set up and add all the programs again. (Making a backup with time)13:19
cwillumost of the scripts you'll need to work with would be identical between x86 and arm13:19
cwilluwhat you might want to do is make a normal x86 server install in a vm, and build it up inside the vm13:20
cwilluonce you know what pieces you need, it'll be easier to poke rootstock in the right way13:20
cwilluyou'll need something to start X, http://pastebin.com/qSaxR3xh is a copy of what I use (just dump it in /etc/init)13:21
Guest74477I've done that before with x86, I started with ubuntu minimal, got a booting system installed blackbox and I was away. I can imagine it's same process with this now, but arm and embedded is still new waters, I'll let you know how iBuntu goes13:21
cwilluarm doesn't affect any of this though13:22
cwilluall the same packages are available13:22
cwilluthere might be an occasional bug that's in x86 that isn't in arm, or vice verse, but in general it works exactly the same13:22
Guest74477What does the -- vt7 -nr variables do for startx?13:22
cwilluman startx :)13:22
cwillu-- is the divider between parameters for the session vs parameters for the x server13:23
cwilluvt7 tells it to start on vt713:23
Guest74477virtual terminal ie ctrl alt f7?13:23
cwillu-nr tells it not to blank the screen when x starts, so that the splash screen stays running;  that probably won't work for you though, as I had to patch the omapfb driver and I don't think that change has made it into ubuntu yet13:24
cwilluyes, exactly13:24
cwillu/etc/X11/Xsession.d/ is the next place you want to look13:24
cwillustartx will fire off those scripts in the actual x instance13:25
Guest74477That sounds like what I was doing wrong, Is the the command you send me to be saved as initrd?13:25
cwillunote that that includes starting a default window manager, whatever "x-window-manager" happens to link to13:25
Guest74477initrd is the ramdisk *facepalm*13:26
cwillu/etc/init/ is where upstart scripts go13:26
cwilluI generally call it /etc/init/xorg.conf13:26
=== kmargar is now known as markos_
cwilluGuest74477, I'm tarring up a copy of my modules.d (customization to rootstock), which contains a bunch of things split out into systems13:30
cwilluyou won't be able to use it directly really, but it'll give you starting points for configuration, and clues as to where that configuration might happen13:30
cwilluGuest74477, http://cwillu.com/files/modules.tgz13:31
Guest74477Thanks, I'll resd through them, which window manager and desktop do you use/13:31
cwilluer, hang on a sec13:31
cwillunot sure I did what I tjhought I did13:31
cwilluno desktop, just a bare firefox session with a full-screen-on-startup extension, and a simple window manager (not strictly necessary, but convenient)13:32
Guest74477You use Web apps?13:32
cwilluya, I've been doing the ipad thing since before there was an ipad :p13:33
Guest74477Heh, all you needed to do was to build a device13:34
cwillumainly, I find it a very convenient to quickly make ui's, with the added bonus that the application is network-aware for free13:34
cwilluI actually do industrial datacapture and similar13:34
Guest74477And easily portable, compatibilty with any os with a browser13:34
cwillumore or less13:35
cwillureally only care about firefox, but yes13:35
cwilluGuest74477, okay, download that link now13:37
Guest74477I'm just untarring now13:37
cwilludid you download it before?13:37
cwilluif so, you got a few megabytes of random firefox profile that you won't need :p13:38
Guest74477Same url for the new file?13:38
cwillufrontend is the ony you're probably most interested in13:39
cwillualthough packages has the omap3 driver with -nr support13:39
Guest74477What about backend?13:40
cwilluthat fires up the webserver;  not much to it though13:40
cwilluthe actual server code is elsewhere13:41
cwillu(gets pulled in from git in a customized rootstock when it builds the image)13:41
Guest74477Ok, I just noticed it was /etc/init13:41
cwillubasically what you have there is the plumbing to get things running, without any of the actual guts13:41
cwillui.e., the files in frontend/ are basically everything you'd need to change to get a program running under x13:42
cwilluin my case firefox, but it could be anything13:42
cwilluI use a separate init script for firefox itself so that it'll reopen if it dies or is closed, etc13:43
cwilluyou could do it from in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ as well, but that just feels ugly to me13:43
Guest74477So where does xinitrc fit into this or is that for individual user sessions?13:44
cwilluI don't use an xinitrc13:44
cwilluwhat I gave you is an overlay13:44
cwilluif you look at the contents of /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ on an actual system, you'll see how all the usual hooks are implemented13:44
Guest74477Ill check on my own13:45
cwillui.e., you should be able to look at your own desktop's /etc/X11/Xsession.d13:45
cwillugrep and find are your friends :)13:45
Guest74477Dont forget locate updatedb and whereis13:45
Guest74477And whatis13:46
cwillufor this task, grep and find are more important :p13:46
cwilluthey're how you find out what you should be locating :)13:46
Guest74477I use grep anyway13:46
cwillualso apropos and man13:46
cwillua better whatis13:47
cwilluit's a index for man pages13:47
cwilluso you can say apropos session, and look through the results to see what might be related to sessions13:47
Guest74477rootstock is unpacking now13:48
cwilluoh, a good speedup for rootstock:  set up apt-cacher, and use it for rootstock13:48
Guest74477Do it doesn't need to download?13:48
cwilluit holds a cache of the downloads that happen through it, so that the next time you don't need to13:49
Guest74477Ill make a back up of the basic image for now :) If it works I'll probably use it then for distributing13:50
Guest74477I think adding touchscreen and wifi are going to be the worst things, but there's people I can ask13:50
cwilludon't make an image that you distribute13:51
cwillumake a script to generate the image13:51
cwilluyou'll save yourself alot of frustration13:51
cwilluany quick hack you make to an image should be folded into your script, and tested there13:51
cwilluotherwise you'll forget you made a change, or forget how you did it, etc13:51
cwilluwifi will be easy if the device is supported at all13:52
cwillutouchscreen probably as well13:52
cwillujust a matter of including the right drivers13:52
Guest74477There's kernel drivers and they work in Android13:52
cwilluso where's the problem? :p13:53
Guest74477I have the kernel and firmware files for both, but they arn't distrobutable, but there's scripts to get them13:53
Guest74477So the user will have to add them to the image anyway13:53
cwilluall the more reason to make a magic script that just builds the whole image :)13:55
Guest74477I've just been reading your blog, what's the pypy jit actually do :) , Is it just in time?13:55
cwilluthat's what jit stands for13:57
cwillupypy is actually a jit-generator + a python interpreter written in python (actually a subset of python)13:58
cwilluthe jit-generator takes the python interpreter, and optimizes the hell out of it, such that they're actually faster than normal python in a few cases now13:58
* cwillu considers updating his blog14:01
Guest74477In rootstock does update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for rlogin. meen that there's no arm port of rlogin?14:04
cwilluwhy in the name of schneier would you want rlogin!?14:04
cwilluand no, it just means you don't have an rlogin in your package list, which is a good thing14:05
Guest74477Im installing openssh with rootstock14:05
cwilluokay, I wouldn't worry about the error14:06
cwillujust checked, I get the same message;  it's not actually an error14:06
Guest74477lilstevie, ?15:22
Guest74477Its James15:30
Guest74477Got it to boot yet?15:30
lilstevieim only around for a split second15:31
Guest74477cwillu gave some good advice on booting to x15:32
=== suihkulo1ki is now known as suihkulokki

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