=== ian_brasil_ is now known as ian_brasil === rsalveti-away is now known as rsalveti === rsalveti_ is now known as rsalveti === James is now known as Guest74477 [12:25] Hello, I'm using rootstock and am using --matchbox-desktop for a seed but I don't get a bootable desktop in qemu. [12:26] Is there other seeds I need to use? [12:26] x.org possibly? [12:28] ^? [12:32] ogra, ? [12:55] Guest74477, matchbox-desktop isn't a full desktop environment [12:56] I downloaded the matchbox-panel, matchbox-window-manager , libmatchbox [12:56] matchbox-common [13:02] Its for an embedded device [13:03] yes, but some assembly is required with that package [13:04] Do I need to build from source? [13:04] no, you need to play with it in an otherwise already working machine (virtual or otherwise), and learn how the pieces fit together [13:04] Im running it in qemu so I can [13:05] The device is buttonless so Im having to design etc in a vm [13:05] okay, but don't bite off more than you can chew [13:05] your first step should be to get a completely standard install of some common distro working [13:06] use ubuntu-desktop as the seed? [13:06] It would be too heavy for the device (iPhone 3f [13:06] g) [13:06] once you know that you've got boot loaders, kernels, drivers, and so forth handled, then you can start more adventurous things [13:07] We have OpeniBoot idroid kernel and almost all the drivers working on the kernel [13:07] 'we' means you've actually had everything working yourself? [13:07] if not, then that's your first step [13:07] duplicating what's already been done [13:08] I've had Android up and running, someone else has had debian running but isnt releasing inscrtuctions [13:08] I have the boot loader and kernel and have them both running [13:09] in the vm, how far have you gotten? [13:09] The idroid kernel passes off to android kernel where as the person who installed debian used only the idroi kernel [13:09] I've gotten it to boot to cli [13:09] Logged in and used apt-get etc. [13:09] did you set anything up to start x? [13:09] Adde other port repo's to sources.list [13:10] I got x installed and started x it just loaded a black screen [13:10] (typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it) [13:10] There wasn't an xinitrc [13:10] There wasnt a gdm [13:10] It was a text base login [13:10] yes, that's what I just told you :p [13:10] But that can be disabled [13:11] Or should I remove it and keep it single user? [13:11] not sure how that's relevant :) [13:11] your problems with x aren't related to what users you have [13:11] (typically you wouldn't use gdm on an embedded device, which is why matchbox-desktop doesn't depend on it) [13:11] Should I remove gdm :p [13:11] ? [13:11] is it installed? [13:12] No, it's just text based, I thought gdm was graphical [13:12] okay, lets try a different approach to educating you :) [13:12] what os are you running on your desktop? [13:12] linux of some variety? [13:13] spend some time learning how it's actually put together, which pieces are responsible for which tasks [13:13] I've been using linux on my desktop for a few years and have built by own x86 distro's I know a fair bit about building a distro it's just Im new to arm [13:13] okay; none of your issues are really arm related at the moment [13:13] I appreciate the help but that was a bit patronising [13:13] i.e., if you can get x up at all, and so on [13:14] you're aware that gdm is typically responsible for starting X on a desktop? [13:14] Gnome display manager? [13:14] yes [13:15] it's the part that actually runs X on a desktop [13:15] It isn't installed [13:15] Niether is gnome [13:15] yes, so what do you have to actually start x? [13:15] x.org and the startx comman [13:15] d [13:15] matchbox isn't a session, it's a bunch of pieces you use to make the exact pieces you need [13:16] iirc, there's an /etc/matchbox-session (or something like that, it might actually be in /usr/bin) which is a simple script which you need to edit [13:16] Right, wouldnt it be best to use a lightweight window manager/ desktop like openbox to start a session? [13:17] Then add matchbox components to xinit after they've been configured? [13:17] sorry if I sound patronizing, it's just tricky figuring out what a given person knows vs considers obvious vs knows nothing about [13:17] It's ok, thsnk [13:17] Do you have anything in /etc/init or /etc/init.d (the first is preferred) to start x? [13:18] thank you for continuing to help after I said that most wouldn't :) [13:18] I've had to delete the img I made with rootstock due to an ext2 error, I didnt have the applications in the vm to fix it [13:19] I'll get it set up and add all the programs again. (Making a backup with time) [13:19] most of the scripts you'll need to work with would be identical between x86 and arm [13:20] what you might want to do is make a normal x86 server install in a vm, and build it up inside the vm [13:20] once you know what pieces you need, it'll be easier to poke rootstock in the right way [13:21] you'll need something to start X, http://pastebin.com/qSaxR3xh is a copy of what I use (just dump it in /etc/init) [13:21] I've done that before with x86, I started with ubuntu minimal, got a booting system installed blackbox and I was away. I can imagine it's same process with this now, but arm and embedded is still new waters, I'll let you know how iBuntu goes [13:22] arm doesn't affect any of this though [13:22] ok [13:22] all the same packages are available [13:22] there might be an occasional bug that's in x86 that isn't in arm, or vice verse, but in general it works exactly the same [13:22] What does the -- vt7 -nr variables do for startx? [13:22] man startx :) [13:23] -- is the divider between parameters for the session vs parameters for the x server [13:23] vt7 tells it to start on vt7 [13:23] virtual terminal ie ctrl alt f7? [13:24] -nr tells it not to blank the screen when x starts, so that the splash screen stays running; that probably won't work for you though, as I had to patch the omapfb driver and I don't think that change has made it into ubuntu yet [13:24] yes, exactly [13:24] /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ is the next place you want to look [13:25] startx will fire off those scripts in the actual x instance [13:25] That sounds like what I was doing wrong, Is the the command you send me to be saved as initrd? [13:25] note that that includes starting a default window manager, whatever "x-window-manager" happens to link to [13:25] :) [13:25] no [13:26] initrd is the ramdisk *facepalm* [13:26] xinitrc? [13:26] /etc/init/ is where upstart scripts go [13:26] ok [13:26] I generally call it /etc/init/xorg.conf === kmargar is now known as markos_ [13:30] Guest74477, I'm tarring up a copy of my modules.d (customization to rootstock), which contains a bunch of things split out into systems [13:30] you won't be able to use it directly really, but it'll give you starting points for configuration, and clues as to where that configuration might happen [13:31] Guest74477, http://cwillu.com/files/modules.tgz [13:31] Thanks, I'll resd through them, which window manager and desktop do you use/ [13:31] er, hang on a sec [13:31] not sure I did what I tjhought I did [13:32] no desktop, just a bare firefox session with a full-screen-on-startup extension, and a simple window manager (not strictly necessary, but convenient) [13:32] You use Web apps? [13:33] ya, I've been doing the ipad thing since before there was an ipad :p [13:34] Heh, all you needed to do was to build a device [13:34] mainly, I find it a very convenient to quickly make ui's, with the added bonus that the application is network-aware for free [13:34] I actually do industrial datacapture and similar [13:34] And easily portable, compatibilty with any os with a browser [13:35] more or less [13:35] really only care about firefox, but yes [13:37] Guest74477, okay, download that link now [13:37] I'm just untarring now [13:37] did you download it before? [13:38] Yes [13:38] if so, you got a few megabytes of random firefox profile that you won't need :p [13:38] Same url for the new file? [13:38] yes [13:39] frontend is the ony you're probably most interested in [13:39] although packages has the omap3 driver with -nr support [13:40] What about backend? [13:40] that fires up the webserver; not much to it though [13:41] the actual server code is elsewhere [13:41] (gets pulled in from git in a customized rootstock when it builds the image) [13:41] Ok, I just noticed it was /etc/init [13:41] yep [13:41] basically what you have there is the plumbing to get things running, without any of the actual guts [13:42] i.e., the files in frontend/ are basically everything you'd need to change to get a program running under x [13:42] in my case firefox, but it could be anything [13:43] I use a separate init script for firefox itself so that it'll reopen if it dies or is closed, etc [13:43] you could do it from in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ as well, but that just feels ugly to me [13:44] So where does xinitrc fit into this or is that for individual user sessions? [13:44] I don't use an xinitrc [13:44] what I gave you is an overlay [13:44] ok [13:44] if you look at the contents of /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ on an actual system, you'll see how all the usual hooks are implemented [13:45] Ill check on my own [13:45] i.e., you should be able to look at your own desktop's /etc/X11/Xsession.d [13:45] yep [13:45] grep and find are your friends :) [13:45] Dont forget locate updatedb and whereis [13:46] And whatis [13:46] for this task, grep and find are more important :p [13:46] they're how you find out what you should be locating :) [13:46] I use grep anyway [13:46] :p [13:46] also apropos and man [13:46] apropos? [13:47] a better whatis [13:47] it's a index for man pages [13:47] so you can say apropos session, and look through the results to see what might be related to sessions [13:48] rootstock is unpacking now [13:48] oh, a good speedup for rootstock: set up apt-cacher, and use it for rootstock [13:48] Do it doesn't need to download? [13:48] so* [13:49] it holds a cache of the downloads that happen through it, so that the next time you don't need to [13:49] yep [13:50] Ill make a back up of the basic image for now :) If it works I'll probably use it then for distributing [13:50] I think adding touchscreen and wifi are going to be the worst things, but there's people I can ask [13:50] pro-tip [13:51] don't make an image that you distribute [13:51] make a script to generate the image [13:51] you'll save yourself alot of frustration [13:51] any quick hack you make to an image should be folded into your script, and tested there [13:51] otherwise you'll forget you made a change, or forget how you did it, etc [13:52] wifi will be easy if the device is supported at all [13:52] touchscreen probably as well [13:52] just a matter of including the right drivers [13:52] There's kernel drivers and they work in Android [13:53] so where's the problem? :p [13:53] I have the kernel and firmware files for both, but they arn't distrobutable, but there's scripts to get them [13:53] So the user will have to add them to the image anyway [13:55] all the more reason to make a magic script that just builds the whole image :) [13:55] I've just been reading your blog, what's the pypy jit actually do :) , Is it just in time? [13:57] that's what jit stands for [13:58] pypy is actually a jit-generator + a python interpreter written in python (actually a subset of python) [13:58] the jit-generator takes the python interpreter, and optimizes the hell out of it, such that they're actually faster than normal python in a few cases now [14:01] * cwillu considers updating his blog [14:04] In rootstock does update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for rlogin. meen that there's no arm port of rlogin? [14:04] why in the name of schneier would you want rlogin!? [14:05] and no, it just means you don't have an rlogin in your package list, which is a good thing [14:05] Im installing openssh with rootstock [14:06] okay, I wouldn't worry about the error [14:06] just checked, I get the same message; it's not actually an error [15:22] lilstevie, ? [15:30] yes? [15:30] Its James [15:30] ah [15:30] Got it to boot yet? [15:31] im only around for a split second [15:31] ok [15:32] cwillu gave some good advice on booting to x === suihkulo1ki is now known as suihkulokki