[12:46] <rlameiro> ScottL: i think i cant make it to the meeting today
[12:47] <rlameiro> ScottL: i have to go to the ariport and i am not sure if i get home in time
[12:53] <rlameiro> jussi: are you there?
[12:53] <rlameiro> I am thinking on a implementation of the UBS controls
[12:55] <rlameiro> what do you think if the controls utility, could download from a server a text file with the list of PPA we determine safe for ubuntustudio
[12:55] <rlameiro> this way we wouldnt need to upgrade the package each time some PPA changes, or something new is needed to be added
[12:56] <rlameiro> if so, where can i put that file? some safe place, also it sgould be GPG signed, but i dont know how, maype gziped or something
[13:13] <ScottL> rlameiro, i don't think we are ready for a meeting today, i know i'm not
[13:13] <rlameiro> ok
[13:14] <rlameiro> ScottL: what do you thing about the file download?
[13:53] <ScottL> rlameiro, hmm, i'm not sure, i'd have to think about it
[13:53] <ScottL> my first thought is that i would rather we test the ppa ourselves and then copy the build into our own ppa
[13:54] <ScottL> this keeps a single ppa for user's to worry about
[13:54] <ScottL> but, this does not prevent us from fixing the rtprio and memlock settings, which is actually pretty important
[13:55] <rlameiro> ScottL: well, but the backpots need to have its own ppa
[13:55] <rlameiro> i need to look into the rtprio stuff
[13:56] <rlameiro> it needs to be added to the audio.d/config isnt it
[13:56] <ScottL> rlameiro, true, but we could include one other for "extended" universe ppa (or whatever name we come up with)
[13:56] <rlameiro> ok
[13:56] <rlameiro> like enable backports ppa
[13:56] <rlameiro> and another with enable ubuntustudio universe team ppa
[13:56] <rlameiro> or something
[13:57] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16
[13:57] <ScottL> /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf 
[13:57] <ScottL> the link provides alink to mailing list discribing it, but you seee the file also below my link
[13:57] <rlameiro> yes that, misspelled it
[13:58] <rlameiro> i just dont get that stuff of not adding the user to the @audio group when using PA
[13:58] <ScottL> i have misgivings about enabling ppa's that we do not have control over, we cannot guarentee their quality and we would receive the bugs for them
[13:59] <rlameiro> ScottL: me too
[13:59] <rlameiro> I was thinking on separate ppa, just that
[14:00] <rlameiro> but all controlled by the team, also the list would need to be approved by the team, but maybe its better to have just one ppa with everything
[14:01] <ScottL> the way i understood dtchen's explanation, is that the active user (the one at the keyboard) has rights to the /dev/snd/* which means you have access to the @audio group
[14:01] <rlameiro> i wanted to put the kernel in a diferent one, because, that way, we could warn users about the rt kernel implications
[14:01] <rlameiro> even with jack?
[14:01] <ScottL> you are not explicitly in the group but because you are the person logged on you access to that groups rights
[14:02] <rlameiro> humm
[14:02] <rlameiro> ok
[14:02] <ScottL> that's a good idea about the kernel
[14:02] <rlameiro> ScottL: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=12
[14:03] <rlameiro> ScottL: the idea was like this, the user selects the checkbox for the kernels PPA and a Warnig box appears
[14:03] <ScottL> according to dtchen, this should work, even with jack...of course there may be unforseen situations
[14:03] <rlameiro> saying that you may have problems with the propietary kernels etc
[14:03] <rlameiro> the things abogani explained on the mailing list
[14:03] <ScottL> proprietary drivers?  instead of proprietary kernels?
[14:04] <rlameiro> ScottL: when you instal the rt kernel, ussually users have some problems with the nvida and ATI propietary drivers
[14:04] <rlameiro> this is a defense for us, or elese we would be swamped with bugs and complains
[14:05] <ScottL> i meant that you said "saying that you may have problems with the propietary kernels etc"   but i realize you meant drivers not kernels
[14:05] <rlameiro> if they want rt kernels, they should know thew caveeats
[14:05] <ScottL> exactly
[14:05] <rlameiro> oops, sorry fail
[14:05] <rlameiro> :D
[14:05] <ScottL> lol
[14:06] <ScottL> i'm hoping this is transitory...if preempt gets in archives and can be shipped by default, many may not want to switch because performance is acceptable
[14:06] <ScottL> transitory = people wanting -rt kernels
[14:06] <rlameiro> yeap, but there are still situations whwere rt kernels is better, for instance with laptops
[14:07] <ScottL> my understanding is that we cannot make an -rt kernel without Igno's patch, and that leaves us in a difficult position sometimes
[14:07] <rlameiro> as the mobile processor have some weard differences, with the rt you can push it to the limit
[14:07] <rlameiro> ScottL: no, if we tell the user :D
[14:08] <rlameiro> we are not the devs, we just try to get together the best software
[14:08] <rlameiro> we are not kernel devs
[14:08] <ScottL> rlameiro, i fear that most users think we work in a fantasy land and we have all the knowledge, resources, and time to make things "right" and that somehow we just choose to screw things up for select peoples
[14:08] <rlameiro> the problem is that most people think that ubuntustudio makes its own kernel, and all software
[14:08] <ScottL> precisely
[14:09] <ScottL> "omnipotent" gods thats fail
[14:09] <rlameiro> so, ubuntustudio controls could be a way to WAR users about the caveats
[14:09] <rlameiro> and also ask for help
[14:09] <rlameiro> it can be naggy, but yes it is needed
[14:10] <ScottL> a dialogue box would be nice to tell them of the dangers and a link to an informative website would be a really good thing IMO
[14:10] <rlameiro> precisely my idea
[14:10] <rlameiro> with a BIG warning triangle
[14:10] <ScottL> english is my native tongue and my last sentence was pretty horrible :P
[14:10] <rlameiro> we also should push translation
[14:11] <ScottL> maybe I should have an editor and a translator :P
[14:11] <rlameiro> lol
[14:11] <rlameiro> i got you :D
[14:11] <ScottL> that's why i worry about abogani and the way he gets down on himself about his english
[14:12] <ScottL> i really do think he types it better than a lot of native english speakers
[14:13] <rlameiro> ScottL: that is normal with us, because our native language isn't english, but we do spend most of our time reading stuff in english
[14:13] <ScottL> once we get an ISO build that works i should be updating the seeds to include the new lv2 stuff and hopefully moderating the menu for them as well
[14:13] <rlameiro> so sometimes qe feel that we should do better at it
[14:13] <ScottL> even if something is spoken (or written) not quite correctly but the intent is understood, then that is a win
[14:14] <ScottL> because sometimes even for those born in US and speak english natively, it is difficult to understand some spoken dialogue because of slang and poor word choices
[14:14] <ScottL> it's not what you would call "proper english" but it gets understood the same more or less
[14:15] <rlameiro> yea, true, sometimes i cant get some english expressions ou there :D
[14:16] <ScottL> oh, and when we get an ISO build that installs I really want to test JACK/Pulse Audio together and see what's different
[14:16] <rlameiro> ScottL: do you know another ubuntu channel for developres, besides #ubuntu-dev?
[14:16] <ScottL> i do not...i wasn't even directly aware of #ubuntu-dev until now
[14:16] <rlameiro> ScottL: about that,, http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=12
[14:17] <rlameiro> i think we could implement it on controls
[14:17] <rlameiro> as enable it or disable it
[14:17] <ScottL> which part?
[14:17] <rlameiro> also warning that when jack is stoped pulse crash :D
[14:17] <rlameiro> the pulse/jack
[14:18] <ScottL> you mean the bridge?
[14:18] <rlameiro> so you can get pulse audio into jack and vice versa
[14:18] <rlameiro> yeap
[14:18] <ScottL> i agree, but probably not this cycle
[14:19] <ScottL> i am expected to have some troubles still with maverick in terms of getting jack and pulse enabled and working in a stable manner vai dbus
[14:19] <rlameiro> maybe
[14:19] <ScottL> not that i have great or expansive knowledge of the subject
[14:20] <ScottL> but when we change infrastructure like this it seems to have "unforeseen consequences" which take a cycle to rectify
[14:20] <rlameiro> it depends on how can i make it or not
[14:20] <rlameiro> i have some spare time now
[14:20] <ScottL> i'm not talking about -controls
[14:20] <rlameiro> i am starting to reading stuff about python-apt etc
[14:20] <rlameiro> i need to make a mock-up and implement it
[14:21] <ScottL> but first can we fix the rtprio and memlock situation, that is clearly defined and pretty critical
[14:21] <rlameiro> also i will meet in person RNCBC in 15 days so i can ask him directly about rtirq
[14:22] <ScottL> hey, that's pretty cool!
[14:22] <rlameiro> ScottL: AFAIK the issue is easy to fix, just changing the file path in the python script
[14:22] <rlameiro> that is the first thing i will do
[14:22] <rlameiro> that and remove nice
[14:23] <ScottL> rlameiro,  i would even suggest that we fix that first, test it, and then push the changes now to improve usability
[14:23] <rlameiro> ScottL: should i develop it on the alpha?
[14:23] <ScottL> and then worry about other improvements
[14:23] <rlameiro> ScottL: for lucid?
[14:23] <ScottL> you could develop on lucid i think without any problems
[14:24] <rlameiro> i dont know if i can
[14:24] <ScottL> you don't know if you can update -controls on lucid?
[14:24] <rlameiro> the problems with rtprio came because the change was made between karmic and lucid
[14:24] <rlameiro> so never was detected fixed in time
[14:25] <ScottL> if you can update -controls on a lucid install, it should be able to be merged into the code for maverick and then released
[14:25] <rlameiro> but, of course it can be developd in lucid, but needs testing on MM
[14:25] <rlameiro> yeap
[14:25] <ScottL> then an SRU can be filed to get it released into lucid still during maverick's development
[14:25] <rlameiro> thats tha
[14:26] <rlameiro> thats it, so we can push it to lucid also :D
[14:26] <rlameiro> thats what i wanted to know :D
[14:26] <ScottL> oh good :)
[14:27] <ScottL> hopefully you can make the rtprio, memlock, and nice changes, they get reviewed and testing in lucid, and then an MM ISO is available to test as well
[14:28] <ScottL> then we can merge the code for MM
[14:28] <ScottL> afk a few minutes
[14:28] <rlameiro> ok
[14:58] <rlameiro> ScottL: ok, i just removed nice from UScontrols
[14:58] <ScottL> rlameiro, sorry had to finish a blog post before the family woke up    http://dullass.blogspot.com/
[14:59] <ScottL> good :)
[14:59] <rlameiro> i changed the file were writ the memlock, but there is already info on mine
[15:00] <ScottL> rlameiro, did you just remove the code or did you comment them out?  i think i would advocate commenting them out for the time being
[15:00] <rlameiro> the instllation process of jack already does some stuff, so i need to make something to check for the actuall state of the file, or it will addin one more line
[15:00] <rlameiro> i removed it
[15:00] <ScottL> yes, that is true
[15:00] <rlameiro> but its not important
[15:00] <rlameiro> its only mu branch
[15:00] <ScottL> we have the old code still so it's not that big of a concern
[15:00] <rlameiro> after i make a diff and commnet out the original
[15:01] <ScottL> rlameiro, it's time for me to go, i have to wake up son and get him ready for us to go out into town
[15:01] <rlameiro> also, there is a commented line with a nice setting /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
[15:02] <rlameiro> go go 
[15:02] <ScottL> rlameiro,  ciao, i always enjoy talking with you
[15:02] <rlameiro> have a good time
[15:02] <rlameiro> mee to :D
[20:13] <rlameiro> hi again
[20:14] <rlameiro> ScottL: i just reconfigured jack, using $dpkg-reconfigure -p high jackd and it added memlock unlimited, and rtprio 99
[20:14] <rlameiro> both to @audio
[20:14] <rlameiro> so, i dont know, why do need ubuntustudio controls for the moment...
[20:15] <rlameiro> besides enabling firewire
[20:16] <rlameiro> crimsun_: I would love if you could clarify some things avout the audio setup at the moment
[20:17] <rlameiro> as i want to push ASAP a modified version of ubuntustudio controls for the 10.04.1