=== MenZa is now known as baconsnacks === baconsnacks is now known as lhavelund [07:39] oops [07:59] good morning [08:01] RAOF: hey, I still can't upgrade my xserver because of nvidia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/449524/ any idea? [08:01] heya didrocks [08:03] salut baptistemm, ça va ? [08:03] ouep === mpt_ is now known as mpt [08:14] Good morning [08:15] slomo: I tried vala-gen-introspect, but I didn't even get that to work; produces 0-byte output and crashes [08:15] vish: perhaps try poking cjwatson/slangasek? [08:15] vish: I'll try to have a look, but I can only spend very limited hours on SRUs this cycle [08:17] good morning pitti [08:18] I packaged bluez 4.66 and obexd 0.27 for who concerned, but I guess I need james_w has to merge the code first [08:18] s/who/whom/ [08:19] hi baptistemm [08:19] any developer can do it, it doesn't have to be me [08:20] hi james_w, ah Okay, I thought you were managing that as the merge recipient is you [08:21] pitti: oh , ok. they seemed a bit busy .. and you had already seen the branch when you approved the lucid task, so thought it might be easier for you.. i'll wait then :) [08:21] so anyone willing to, you can merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main :) [09:07] hey there [09:11] salut seb128 [09:11] lut didrocks [09:12] seb128: tu as le bonjour de kinouchou et YoBoY :) === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [09:13] didrocks, ;-) [09:13] didrocks, c'était bien votre réunion ? [09:13] seb128: boarf, comme d'hab, beaucoup de plan sur la comète… :) [09:14] hehe [09:15] seb128: et sinon, toi bon week-end? [09:16] oui, nickel [09:18] bonjour seb128 [09:19] pitti, hey [09:20] oh, mvo is on holiday all week [09:27] pitti, right [09:29] morning [09:33] hum, last version of libappindicator0.0-cil broke banshee indicator [09:36] didrocks, right, they were discussing the 0 or 1 abi before weekend [09:36] didrocks, check with kenvandine or ted when they will be there [09:36] seb128: sure, I will, I have also another thing to discuss with ted about the python binding (some function not working). That will be his day :) [09:37] do you think I should write a page for banshee evaluation for default in UNE or just discuss that in the meeting? (I have some TODO and WI list) [09:40] would be nice to do a summary of what you noted [09:40] could be worth sending to the ubuntu-desktop mailing list [09:40] seems better than a wiki to discuss [09:40] or start with the meeting tomorrow [09:41] ok, starting with the meeting tomorrow and then, launch the discussion in the ubuntu-desktop mailing list [09:42] ok [10:17] milanbv, hi, thanks for not trolling on upstream lists [10:17] milanbv, we already have enough discussion about what Ubuntu does or not without that [10:21] seb128: sorry, but I don't think that's trolling :-) === artnay_ is now known as artnay [10:21] milanbv, so you think porting firefox and openoffice to gtk3 is trivial? [10:21] why doesn't an Ubuntu dev clearly explain what's the problem with GTK+3 on desktop-devel? [10:21] and chromium [10:21] milanbv, I'm going to [10:22] ah, here's a point - but I had never heard it before [10:22] cool :-) [10:22] this discussion started before weekend [10:22] and I don't work on weekends [10:22] I'm just starting my week [10:22] milanbv, the issue in short is that we need to duplicate the stack [10:22] ie every lib using gtk needs 2 build [10:22] a gtk2 and a gtk3 one [10:22] yeah, that I understand [10:22] it's lot of work [10:23] and we have no CD space for 2 stacks [10:23] and we will not port firefox this cycle [10:23] you can't change firefox without mozilla ack anyway [10:23] but are you sure porting Firefox and OO.o is so much work? [10:23] I've no idea about that, but usually it's not that hard [10:23] even if their codebases are evil ;-) [10:23] mozilla doesn't let firefox to be changed without them approving the change [10:23] to start with [10:24] and I doubt they will allow such changes in a distribution [10:24] though I doubt they would refuses patches for that... [10:24] I doubt they will want to switch to gtk3 [10:24] they don't have 2 codecases [10:24] and most of their users are on gtk2 systems [10:24] what would they win? [10:25] no idea, but that's definitely something to discuss with GNOME, because verybody is affected [10:25] they wouldn't win much, but anyway they'll have to switch [10:26] not so sure [10:26] gtk2 will be around for a while [10:26] ie years [10:26] they have no hurry to switch [10:27] yeah, but Linux distribs aren't going to use a GTK2 firefox for ages [10:27] I'm pretty sure no distro will be able to do without gtk2 in the next year for their default installation [10:27] else that means GNOME will stay 2.30 [10:27] milanbv, what will they use? [10:27] no [10:27] it ship means you have to ship 2 versions of GTK [10:27] which is not so much of an issue and most distros will do [10:27] but it requires work and CD space [10:27] I agree that's really not optimal [10:28] and we don't have the manpower for the packaging work and port work in half a cycle [10:28] we aim for GTK3 and GNOME3 next cycle [10:28] our team is small and we can't get there this cycle [10:28] but I fear all that patching work will be tedious too [10:29] it will [10:29] that's why we plan to do the platform this cycle [10:29] ie we will have gtk3 and libraries built for it this cycle [10:30] but not on the default installation [10:30] so we can start working on getting things building with it [10:30] but I've little doubt we will not be done by end of the cycle [10:30] anyway, I really believe this kind of decision should be explained upstream ASAP [10:31] you're helping rants against Ubuntu by not talking [10:33] I talked to andre and vuntz about it [10:33] we had fpeters at UDS [10:34] and it has publically mentioned to several upstream [10:34] ie empathy, tomboy [10:34] I do plan to reply to those emails [10:34] I didn't do an email upstream before because it's a distro choice [10:34] and I don't see how what we do is revelant for upstream [10:34] as you said on the list Ubuntu is only one distro [10:35] why our choice should matter enough to be announced upstream [10:35] that's not one distro - that's one of the main distros [10:36] I will reply to this email [10:36] the bottom line is that I think GNOME is right to go to GTK3 this cycle [10:36] and that's relevant because e.g. Empathy devs are primarily concerned about getting 2.32 into Ubuntu [10:36] but I don't trust GNOME3 to be ready on time [10:37] well they are not the only ones and they are right as a project [10:37] lot of upstream care about their code to run on the current lts [10:37] milanbv: empathy guys are already aware of that, we discussed it over the week-end and I annonced the point seb128 just explained to you [10:37] and will do for some years [10:37] announced* [10:37] or on the coming Debian stable [10:37] or on RHEL6 [10:37] or on the current opensuse [10:37] the fact that GNOME3 is coming doesn't mean those distro will stop being used [10:38] and upstream will keep carring about having their software new versions available for those users [10:38] I doubt firefox we go with "we do builds for GTK3, if you use RHEL or Lucid LTS or Debian you loose" [10:38] will go [10:39] I think it's not realistic to ask softwares writers to go GTK3 only [10:39] Firefox is another kettle of fish... [10:39] well take pidgin if you like [10:39] or chrome [10:39] or openoffice [10:39] or eclipse [10:39] everything which matters out of GNOME itself [10:40] ...and is on the CD [10:40] that's orthogonal [10:40] people using Eclipse can afford loading a second GTK+ version [10:40] I'm explaining you why empathy and other will care about being gtk2 compatible still [10:40] it doesn't mean they will not allow building with gtk3 [10:41] but dropping gtk2 support doesn't seem something software writters should or will do [10:41] well there is 2 topics there [10:41] - default gtk version we can and will use [10:41] - what upstream code will build with [10:41] and saying upstream code should stop building with gtk2 is a no go [10:41] it means upstream code will stop building on Lucid LTS [10:41] or RHEL6 [10:41] or Debian [10:42] or opensuse [10:42] that's true for standalone software [10:42] those distros don't have gtk3 in their current stable [10:42] but for GNOME core [10:42] well, empathy is standalone software [10:42] seb128, it's really unsure empathy will build with gtk2 [10:42] or they can decide if they care about their software being shipped out of the new GNOME [10:43] and I think gnome-settings-daemon depends on GTK+3 already [10:43] Zdra, well it's a call your team should be doing but knowing you drop support for all those distro when you do it [10:43] seb128, we are really in the middle of dilemma tbh [10:43] milanbv, right, which is why we don't update to GNOME 2.31 [10:43] yeah, but it's really not that nice... [10:43] we don't have confidence on GNOME3 to be ready this cycle [10:43] I see [10:43] it's going to be like the new KDE [10:44] buggy and crashy [10:44] :D [10:44] it's lot of changes for one cycle [10:44] it's mixing gtk3 and dconf [10:44] not as many as for KDE4 [10:44] seb128, I think the big big mistake is to not provide GtkApplication in Gtk 2.22 [10:45] luckily they are (it seems) still making libunique-3 [10:45] so that could safe us all [10:45] how does that makes any difference? [10:45] that's libunique for gtk3 [10:46] oh, you mean you can keep using that and not depends on gtk3 specific apis [10:46] right... [10:46] seb128, have you seen the 'Call to maintainers: GNOME 2.31 to ship GTK 2.90' in desktop-devel-list? [10:46] seb128, exactly [10:46] rodrigo_: sure he has ;-) [10:46] seb128, they're talking about ubuntu not shipping gtk3, if you have something to say [10:46] ah, ok :) [10:47] ah, I see you've been discussing it :) [10:48] seb128, in the unlikely hypotheses that all packages shipped with ubuntu liveCD can build with GTK3, would you accept to ship gtk3 with maverick? [10:48] Zdra, if it's available on time and working yes [10:49] I still have little confidence on the GNOME3 schedule [10:49] Zdra, but I doubt firefox or openoffice will be gtk3 friendly this cycle [10:49] knowing those it will take a year to get there [10:50] I don't think openoffice will roll a new version this cycle [10:50] seb128, yeah, it is unlikely... but to totally fair, I think you should communicate your position, give a list of packages that needs absolutely to build with gtk3, then we'll see... [10:50] Zdra, I plan to reply to the mailing list with what I just said there [10:50] I think it's not a good choice for software writters to drop gtk2 support [10:51] it's not something any reasonable isv would do [10:51] I don't ever see firefox telling all those RHEL or Debian or LTS use to stop using firefox [10:51] in the first place I think it is a *really* bad idea from GTK dev to add features in GTK 3.0 [10:51] the initial plan was to have gtk 3.0 == gtk2.22 - deprecated [10:51] Firefox could be GTK2 and 3 friendly at the same time [10:52] just removing deprecated symbols [10:52] that's what most GNOME modules will do [10:52] the problem is, will they want it in time... [10:53] no, it's not what GNOME will do [10:53] that's why we have this discussion [10:53] empathy 2.32 for example might depends on gtk3 [10:53] ie using gtkapplication [10:53] which is a gtk3 feature only [10:53] which means it will not be able to build it with gtk2 or on any gtk2 only distro [10:54] well again those are 2 different issues [10:54] seb128, tbh we didn't make any decision, and we understand it is important to support gtk2, and even more important to be shipped with ubuntu [10:54] one being what default gtk we will use [10:54] the other is what software writters will support [10:54] I can't really speak for GNOME components [10:54] ie empathy [10:54] seb128, but if that becomes a GNOME goal to drop libunique and use GtkApplication... then that will become problematic [10:55] but I can for sure say that things like pidgin or firefox or chrome will not let gtk2 users down by stopping building with it [10:55] Zdra, you could have buildtime if code to use one or the other I guess [10:55] using libunique for yet one cycle won't be considered a crime I guess [10:55] seb128, I think the important thing now is the explain the ubuntu position, and ask GNOME release them to ensure that 2.32 still build with gtk2 as compatibility [10:55] I plan to do that [10:56] seb128, and also ask GTK dev WTF they are doing with 2.22 [10:57] they should really backport gtkapplication, I see no reason for not doing it [10:57] someone mentioned having GtkApplication in2.22, iirc [10:57] with that, most stuff should work ok with both gtk2 and gtk3, I think [10:57] Zdra: ask Colin Walters, I think he was OK to do it === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:42] seb128: did your rhythmbox snapshot work for you? [12:45] didrocks, no, I like to upload broken things [12:45] ;-) [12:45] seb128: I knew that! :-) [12:45] didrocks, what issue do you have? [12:46] seb128: more seriously, it's segfaulting each times it tries to play something (local mp3/ogg, radio, upnp shared music) [12:46] stacktrace? [12:46] let me try [12:46] on the way, installing the -dbgsym now [12:46] I'm still on lucid so I tested it on lucid [12:46] I'm starting my mini which runs maverick now [12:47] ok [12:47] that's why I asked you first :-) [12:48] can you try to play an ogg in totelm [12:48] totem [12:49] mp3 and ogg are working in totem [12:49] so, doesn't seem to be gstreamer related [12:51] didrocks, I can play the example-contents ogg fine on the mini [12:51] let's wait for your stacktrace [12:51] hum, it seems to fail in gstreamer :/ let me install the -dbgsym for it [12:51] didrocks, try changing the crossfading option [12:52] oh, now I remember I activated this morning a plugin [12:53] got it it's ReplayAgain [12:53] ReplayGain [12:53] ok [12:53] seb128: this plugin is officiel, right? I can report in upstream bugtracker? [12:54] official* [12:54] yes [12:55] ok, I will report that, thanks seb128! [12:55] thanks didrocks! [12:58] what consumer does manage-credentials need to authenticate for lp-project-upload to work? [13:05] rodrigo_: from the code, it's 'ubuntu-dev-tools' [13:05] (function get_launchpad() used by some scripts in ubuntu-dev-tools) [13:06] didrocks, ok, thanks [13:13] didrocks: hey there, I was asking rodrigo_ how to create credentials to upload releases to LP [13:14] and manage-credentials -c ubuntu-dev-tools is failing with "manage-credentials: error: Please define a sub-tool you would like to use [13:14] didrocks: any idea what am I missing? [13:16] nessita: why do you use manage-credentials? you should just use lp-project-upload [13:16] this one will create the crendential for you [13:16] didrocks: well, yes, but it says: [13:16] Could not connect to Launchpad: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer. [13:17] oh ok, it's been a while I've created my credential for it, let me check [13:17] because manage-credentials -c foo works [13:17] didrocks: thanks :-) [13:17] but yeah, not with ubuntu-dev-tools [13:18] I never had to use manage-credentials, not sure which tool created my credentials [13:19] rodrigo_: maybe because this is a new installation? though my home is the same, and I can push and pull from LP with no problem (to private projects as well) [13:19] nessita, the credentials for bzr branches are different, afaik [13:19] oh ok [13:20] nessita: manage-credentials create -c 'ubuntu-dev-tools' [13:20] didrocks: no way! :-) [13:20] nessita: you forgot the create tool [13:20] yes [13:21] didrocks: anyways, it failed with http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/EJQDzkWt [13:21] I'll try again [13:22] nessita: did you accepted in your browser before pressing enter? [13:22] lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized [13:22] -> I guess no :) [13:23] didrocks: didn't see the browser tab, honestly [13:23] nessita: is it there now? [13:23] didrocks: thank you! I'm uploading the project now [13:23] didrocks: yes, ti worked [13:23] it* [13:23] nessita: sweet, you're welcomed :) [13:30] going out for half an hour for some errands [13:41] didrocks, you didn't add a stacktrace to the rb crash bug [13:43] seb128: got a bugzilla timeout (just checking the tab) [13:43] ok [13:43] fixing this [13:43] thank you [13:44] seb128: done, thanks :) [13:45] didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well [13:45] didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well rather than a binary one [13:45] didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well rather than a binary one [13:45] ups [13:45] sorry [13:45] seb128: hum? I don't know that feature, let me have a look [13:45] well usually clicking on a stacktrace works [13:46] there is wants to open it and it says it's a binary format to download [13:46] hum, that's because it gave a bad MimeType [13:47] (bugzilla is horribly slow there today) [13:47] usually people just copy the stacktrace in a comment on bugzilla I think [13:47] didrocks, i've paste the stacktrace you attached in the bug report so it can be looked more easily [13:47] bugzilla is clever about those and display only the start with a expender sign [13:47] thanks pedro_ [13:47] that way it would work as seb128 said [13:47] pedro_, hey btw, how are you? [13:47] pedro_: thanks a lot :) [13:47] with the stacktrace parser and all that [13:48] seb128, I'm good! how are you doing? [13:48] didrocks, you're welcome ;-) [13:48] I'm fine thanks [13:48] seb128: ok, I will do that way next time, just paste it [13:48] seb128: thanks too :-) [13:48] didrocks, see what it gives now that pedro copied it [13:49] right, it's easily readable without cluttering the page [13:53] Hi! I need help installing ubuntu 10.04 64 bit [13:53] ravibn, hi, try #ubuntu [13:54] seb128: been there and they said they do not know [13:54] ravibn, well try again later then [13:54] no one else wanna try here [13:55] looks like people are watching football [13:56] didrocks, is oneconf in s-c or ubiquity still likely for a2 or should that be revisited? [13:57] didrocks, can you give me a summary of where it stands? does it need design input? did people agree to get it in there? [13:57] hello rickspencer3 [13:57] seb128: mvo told me last week that the software-center plugin was available end of last week, which didn't happen. So, it will be delay by one more week now that he is in holidays [13:58] mpt is working today on the design (we discussed together last Friday about that point) [13:58] didrocks, mvo is not the only one to work on s-c ;-) [13:58] so, designed-view, it shold be ok [13:58] ok [13:58] so design agree to get it in s-c? [13:58] seb128: yeah, but the plugin part was his task, apparently [13:58] right [13:58] I though there were some discussions about it and I though I read about ubiquity being an issue due to connectivity not always being there etc [13:58] ubiquity, I think it won't do it this cycle to be honest [13:58] good morning seb128 [13:59] hey rickspencer3 [13:59] didrocks, ok, I agree with that, can you change the workitem to delayed? [13:59] seb128: sure, DELAYED or POSTPONED? both are valid? [13:59] ups, postponed [13:59] ok :) [13:59] sorry ;-) [13:59] no worry :-) [14:00] the appmenubar is in main btw now [14:00] ok, will seed it today so [14:00] so it should be easy to check that workitem this week if you want ;-) [14:00] check with davidbarth first though [14:00] sure [14:00] I think he had some concern about quality on friday [14:00] also, I will POSTPONE some Quickly tasks as gedit is changing his plugin system this cycle [14:01] it might require to confirm if it's ready to go or not [14:01] ok, will check with him [14:01] didrocks, ok [14:01] thanks! [14:01] you're welcome :) [14:01] tremolux, hello [14:02] hey tremolux [14:03] tremolux, can you let me know when you have some time to talk about your workitems? [14:03] tremolux, you are a bit behind on the alpha2 list, we are near of the mid-milestone mark and you got 5 items on 18 done [14:04] tremolux, that's not an issue but need to look if those items are still realistics or if some need to be moved to a3 now [14:04] kenvandine, hey [14:05] kenvandine, it seems the tp-approver thing will not happen for a2 right? [14:05] kenvandine, can you move it to a3 if that's the case? [14:05] ArneGoetje, hi [14:06] ArneGoetje, where do you stand with design for language-selectors mockups? can you ping them to get an update if you didn't have one recently? [14:07] RAOF, you are probably sleeping or not working right now but for tomorrow, we need to discuss your workitems, we are mid a2 milestone and you got 2 items out of 21 crossed [14:07] RAOF, I would like to check with you if you need help or if we shoul reschedule some of those for later [14:10] seb128, yeah, will do [14:10] kenvandine, thanks [14:10] kenvandine, hey btw, did you have a nice weekend? [14:26] seb128, not really... but i hope you did :) [14:26] seb128, i started getting sick thurs and friday... and friday night i went to the doctor... turns out i have an infection caused by a tick bite [14:27] urg [14:27] something similar to rocky mountain spotted fever, not sure if you ever heard of that [14:27] :-( [14:27] but it's a pain... [14:27] my weekend was quite nice thanks [14:27] kenvandine, no I didn't, checking on internet now ;-) [14:28] kenvandine, I hope you get better [14:28] anyway... i'll survive... but will have joint pain.. aches and pains and a fever for probably 2 full weeks :( [14:28] kenvandine, take some rest today if you need it [14:28] :-( [14:28] it's a nasty infection... i was never too worried about ticks before... [14:28] anyway... i'll be ok :) [14:28] they are known to be bad around there [14:29] yeah [14:29] we try to be careful with those [14:29] i was working on my fence two weeks ago... and got a bunch of bite [14:29] +s [14:30] anyway at least you know what you have now [14:30] yeah... glad my wife made me go to the doctor... [14:30] she's the one that remembered i got the tick bites... and knew to make me go to the doctor asap [15:28] seb128: hi Seb, we can talk about work items; last week was a bit of a backfill week but I plan to focus on work items this week exclusively [15:28] seb128, just talked to rickspencer3, we moved all my existing gwibber WIs to a3 [15:29] and add work items for fixing Twitter after Twitter breaks Gwibber [15:29] and i added a couple new ones to a2, to handle an important change to twitter that needs to get into lucid by the end of june [15:29] ok, thanks [15:29] tremolux, hey [15:29] seb128, basically twitter.com is turning off the auth mechanism that we use currently, and they just published the spec for how open source apps will need to auth [15:29]