[01:03] anyone handy i ned a good way of saying X is broken do not upgrade [01:03] * gnomefreak cant come up with anything nice sounding [01:04] how about.. [01:04] X is broken. DO NOT UPGRADE! [01:04] clean, simple, clear [01:06] what is broken where what! [01:06] I mean, uh, you have to have some source preferably [01:06] X is Maverick [01:06] I thought X was X [01:06] Tm_T: X is borken in marverick really bad [01:06] s/is/in [01:06] broken [01:07] right now I have 36 packages being held back [01:07] all X [01:07] but nvidia is working for me [01:07] Unless you're blind, don't upgrade? [01:07] no 35 are x IIRC [01:07] There are four lights. [01:07] oopps make that 39 are X [01:07] 36 packages upgraded [01:07] IdleOne: nvidia works fine with the 1.7 X [01:08] ahh ok [01:08] * IdleOne is going to hold off [01:08] 39 X or 1.7 X? I'm confused. [01:08] its 8 i wont be here long at all. if you can think of a nice way to say it please feel free to add it [01:09] 39 X packages version 1.7* [01:09] oh. :P [01:09] or 7.5+5 as they may see it using policy [01:10] At the present time X is experiencing issue with it's visual identity in the sense that it choses not to show itself. Don't upgrade unless you absolutely can handle a broken X on your own. [01:10] to wordy? [01:10] they dont read it now, you think long form will help? if so im good with it :) [01:10] :) [01:10] can't hurt [01:11] but I still think my first suggestions was better [01:11] -s [01:12] i have >100 songs maybe close to 200 and none have the bands name or even the albums name now to find something to edit them with so i have something to do tomorrow other than break things [01:12] sorry its 302 from nautilus saying [01:12] gedit [01:12] heh [01:13] i guess i could start over and tag them with name band and album and song title [01:13] that seems like a lot of work [01:13] I gave up on trying to have a uniform naming scheme for my media [01:14] * gnomefreak cant remember what song is by who so i dont know if i imported it already [01:15] i know some example "Run to the Hills" is iron maiden [01:15] if they were grouped together would help too [01:16] ah maybe listen to them all and than edit title or learn to tag [01:16] that little? :) [01:16] thanks IdleOne that very helpful [01:17] what was? [01:17] IdleOne: your above comments they made me think [01:17] its too late for my brain to work on its own. so instead of 2 hours you helped me come up with it in 10 minutes [01:18] so your gonna give up on it ? [01:18] be back smoke/think/sleep [01:18] IdleOne: tonight yes [01:18] hehe [01:18] good night :) [01:34] Martiini: How can we help you? [01:34] Did I talk to You earlier `? [01:34] you did [01:35] How can I help you? [01:35] How does one get a ban on #ubuntu lifted [01:36] Martiini: we discussed this earlier today and you were provided with the information and links you needed [01:36] Are you a real person ? [01:37] Martiini, are you? [01:37] You were also asked by Flannel to come back in 48 hours and discuss further [01:37] Martiini: it has not been 48 hours [01:38] Are you able to unban someone on #ubuntu ? [01:38] I am. [01:38] you are what [01:39] I am able to unban in #ubuntu [01:39] Martiini: he can unable users and ban users but its normally best to wait gfor the op that banned you [01:39] paskaa [01:39] by the way, please don't play me like I am stupid. you know full well what I meant [01:39] Martiini, stop swearing now [01:39] idiots .. finnish idiots [01:39] Martiini: you will not be unbanned today [01:39] ok , I am afraid [01:40] learn to speak english first [01:40] before start to play admins on IRC [01:40] it was decided by more then one op earlier. the decision is final. Please part the channel [01:40] gnomefreak: please reset the ban that tsimpson had set earlier on Martiini in this channel [01:41] We spent over an hour talking with Martiini and got nowhere [01:41] IdleOne: i wasnt here i am not familiar with the user. Pici might be of more help. hes always here :) [01:41] Martiini: please come back in 48 hours from now === MenZa is now known as baconsnacks [01:41] I will find you in finland [01:41] fine [01:41] Martiini: if you have an issue with one of our operators you should follow the appeal process [01:41] Martiini, welcome. === baconsnacks is now known as lhavelund [01:41] !appeal [01:41] If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page. [01:42] I will find you in your finland hideoway and kick your teeth out [01:42] knome: don't feed please [01:42] i hate threats [01:42] paska pekka [01:42] idiot [01:42] * tsimpson runs away [01:42] tsimpson: run to finland ;) [01:42] he didn't even know my name... :P [01:42] i'm not pekka [01:43] IdleOne, sorry if i was feeding, he's just totally ridiculous [01:44] knome: agreed but he is looking for any reason to take make us look like we are the ones making him act the way he is [01:44] well looking at today's backlog, he isn't very far ;) [01:45] not sure what you mean [01:45] in any case, we tried hard to reason with him [01:45] he refuses to listen [01:46] well, more than one op was irritated by him [01:46] even tsimpson ;) [02:55] * lhavelund humms. [04:29] oobe in #ubuntu [07:17] thank you Jordan_U [08:26] alabd again - banned now, enough is enough. Please don't remove the ban at this time [08:34] Good day all , humble (i) have very serious complaint with ikonia [08:35] alabd: Howdy. How can we help you today? [08:36] Flannel: hi thanks [08:39] previous time -ikonia- banned me and told me you'r ban will last one week but after one month humble can here and asked you to remove ban . today again he/she banned me , humble was discussing with someone he/she entered and answer my question with not true answers and humble started to repeating question to understand him/her , but he/she banned me [08:40] you can chack logs of 8:30 and before it , GMT [08:40] alabd: bans do not expire after a given time. bans are removed when we're assured that problem behavior will not be repeated. [08:41] alabd: let me correct you on your statment, then I'll leave it for the others [08:41] ikonia: here you are [08:41] why correct we should allow them to check logs [08:41] before today 8:30 GMT [08:41] ubuntu channel [08:41] you are a known problem user who refused to obey the rules, I banned you and told you to come back within a week, you persisted to ban evade for weeks after so the ban was not removed. You where asking a question, and flooded the channel, I told you if you did it again you would be removed. You did it again straight away. [08:42] now I'll leave it for the others to resolve [08:42] alabd: as i said, bans are not removed after time. so if your ban was not removed, how did you enter #ubuntu? [08:43] mneptok: it has been removed, it was not removed within the expected week due to persistant ban evading [08:43] mneptok: read statement exactly [08:43] ikonia: says [08:43] You where asking a question, and flooded the channel, I told you if you did it again you would be removed. You did it again straight away. [08:43] ok Ops look here [08:43] they have the logs [08:45] alabd: Let's focus on the ban today, there's no need to bring details of past bans into this. [08:45] Flannel: yes [08:45] ok but humble copied it again here http://pastebin.com/reg9a0M8 , OPs see when ikonia asked me not flood and when did he/she banned me ? how long did it last ? [08:46] and how did he/she answered me , was it really my question answer ? and repating a question will be flood [08:47] it was not a question. [08:47] it was a screaming rant in caps. [08:47] alabd: I'm confused. You were asked not to flood, and then you did, and you were banned for it. Are you saying you weren't flooding? or what? [08:49] Flannel: when he/she answer my question badly , humble was forced to repeat question , he/she answered again those answers and humble asked them again is that flood ? [08:49] alabd: Which question were you answering? [08:50] or, no, you're saying that you were asking a question? Which question were you asking? and how did he respond badly? [08:51] see from first [08:51] humble was discussiing with another user this way [08:51] alabd: nUboon2Age: told you , themse should be ubuntu 10.04 default themse nothing esle but color scheme of it should be proper white and black [08:52] ikonia said [08:52] (11:53:42 AM) ikonia: alabd: gnome-look.org for gnome themes [08:52] this is one bad answer to my question [08:52] see again [08:52] alabd: why is that a bad answer? what would a better answer have been? [08:53] yes because humble asked him that should be default 10.04 theme but only white and black [08:53] not to change theme [08:53] ok ? [08:53] again humble described to him [08:53] or her [08:53] (11:54:30 AM) alabd: ikonia: theme should be ubuntu 10.04 default themse nothing esle but color scheme of it should be proper white and black [08:53] he. [08:53] alabd: there is only one issue here. [08:54] alabd: There is no default theme which has those properties. The defaul theme is "black on white" not "white on black" [08:54] Flannel: default theme on ubuntu 10.04 [08:54] alabd: He can't change the defaults on your system, but you have the ability to install a new theme and set it as your default [08:54] Flannel: default theme on ubuntu 10.04 humble meant [08:54] alabd: Right, he can't change that. [08:55] alabd: but you have the ability to install a new theme, and set it as your default theme [08:55] alabd: you screamed "IT SHOULD BE DEFUALT UBUNTU 10.04 THEME" three times in seconds. ikonia told you if you did it again you would be banned. you did it again. [08:55] alabd: that is the ONLY part of the log that matters. [08:56] mneptok: don't go to the end from first wait humble answer Flannel first [08:56] alabd: the end is the ONLY part that matters. [08:56] alabd: what you are discussing with Flannel has no bearing on the fact you were banned. [08:57] Flannel: yes if this is answer ikonia should say it is not possible to edit theme for example not answering ikonia: alabd: gnome-look.org for gnome themes [08:57] see after that [08:57] (11:54:30 AM) alabd: ikonia: theme should be ubuntu 10.04 default themse nothing esle but color scheme of it should be proper white and black [08:58] again he/she told (11:54:44 AM) ikonia: alabd: you install the themes you want [08:58] again [08:58] (11:55:06 AM) alabd: ikonia: read question exactly [08:58] (11:55:16 AM) alabd: want to take white and black pictures from ubuntu 10.04 default theme but you know it is dark and will be make problem [08:58] (11:55:17 AM) ikonia: alabd: ask the question clearly [08:58] alabd: It's not trivial to modify themes, which is why he didn't suggest you start off modifying one. Instead, he suggested you find a theme that satisfies what you're looking for (because it probably already exists) [08:59] Flannel: but humble need that theme be proper white and black for book humble asked this nothing else [08:59] again see [08:59] (11:56:05 AM) nUboon2Age: ikonia: the default theme set includes High Contrast Inverse, but alabd wants it to NOT be inverse. [09:00] alabd: You just need a black and white image of the theme for a book? or what? [09:00] yes wait will be clear [09:00] (11:56:27 AM) ikonia: alabd: so ? change the theme as I've told you [09:02] then humble copied question 4 time because humble thought he.she is not really reading my question [09:02] then he noticed me not flood [09:02] and said [09:02] (11:57:09 AM) ikonia: alabd: 1.) use the application->accessories->take screen shot applications to take photos of your desktop 2.) install a theme you want for gnome [09:02] those repeated answers [09:03] then humble though heshe is not getting my question [09:03] so asked 2 time again that > (11:56:56 AM) alabd: IT SHOULD BE DEFUALT UBUNTU 10.04 THEME [09:04] then heshe banned me [09:04] (11:57:42 AM) ikonia: alabd: if you flood the channel like that again you will be removed from the channel [09:05] and you did. and you were banned. [09:05] Flannel: you can ask from nUboon2Age he is on now and is trying to answer me in priv8 [09:05] nUboon2Age told me in private [09:05] (11:58:51 AM) nUboon2Age: are you there alabd? [09:06] (11:59:16 AM) alabd: yes [09:06] (11:59:25 AM) alabd: he/she banned me [09:06] (11:59:52 AM) nUboon2Age: he/she is not very tolerant. [09:06] you can ask nUboon2Age yourself [09:06] now , nUboon2Age could undestand what humble want because humble and nUboon2Age was discussing minutes before ikonia comes [09:08] http://pastebin.com/Sbf3bnFN [09:08] Flannel: here is good answer of nUboon2Age in PM > http://pastebin.com/ZpD0GKPn [09:09] alabd: your PM sessions with other users is of no concern. [09:12] yes but humble you can see that nUboon2Age got my question some minutes before ikonia- comes and you can see real answers and you can understand what is answer and what is not , now you can imagine that why humble am complaining ikonia- not good answers and banning , Flannel can see all to judge [09:16] http://pastebin.com/Sbf3bnFN <---- that is the only part of the entire conversation that is pertinent. [09:16] anything else is superfluous. [09:19] you mean any OPs can repeat useless answer and after that user asked his question more than one time to understand him , Ops should ban him , this is true ? [09:20] anyone can repeat any answer they like, as long as it does not flood the channel and cause the floodbots to take action. [09:20] and as long as it is not actually malicious. [09:20] and when you are asked by an op to stop a behavior, you stop. [09:21] no arguments. no excuses. no delay. [09:21] and if you feel it unfair, you come here to discuss it [09:21] yes it is unfair [09:21] why? [09:22] you were told not to flood again. you did. [09:22] humble repated question to understand him he is answering badly not flooding [09:22] you flooded. full stop. [09:22] did humble flood again ? [09:22] yes. [09:22] go read the log i have posted twice now. [09:22] after heshe answered again the same answers humble asked the same answers [09:23] so if you want a user not to repeat his question , OPs also should not answer the same answers [09:23] well, you're obviously unaware of what flooding is, why you should listen to ops' requests, and basic channel etiquette. so i am not inclined to remove your ban. [09:24] humble don't know anything you can imagine [09:24] humble say when a user ask his question again and emphasis on it OPs should not answer the same answers again [09:24] this is fact [09:25] and humble am so complainant because this is not fair [09:26] for the record, and off-topic, people that refer to themselves in the third person *freak me out* [09:26] so i'll go to bed. [09:27] am writing a ubuntu book in persian language , instead of supporting me , should you do this behavior ? [09:39] Flannel: what do you think , do you think ikonia- has not any delinquency ? [10:00] who deal with my complaint in this community ? [10:01] alabd: it looks like mneptok has gone to bed now. Is there anything else that needs discussing? [10:16] does anyone care if we remove Thanks to you all for testing Lucid and making it a great release [10:16] from topic in + [10:16] damn [10:16] +1 [10:23] gnomefreak: go for it [10:26] One user asks a question another user discuss with him some minutes , in this time one OP comes and give not related answer , user tell OP that is not my question answer , OP answer the same answers , user tell OP what is question ...this continues until user will ban because of Flood , and no one says why user told his questions times and times to OP [10:37] jussi: thanks [11:01] popey: ^ [11:03] alabd: it seems to me from reading the logs that you spammed the channel a few times in a short period, were warned and continued to do it. This warranted a kick/ban. [11:03] alabd: discussion from PMs, and further logs from #ubuntu are not required to come to that conclusion. [11:06] oh my word, is this still going on 2 hours later [11:06] popey: yes humble have pasted my question some times but why ? have you read what humble have said from first here ? if yes read them again to know why humble repeated it some times [11:06] I'm ending this now [11:06] alabd: we cannot support you in your book [11:07] alabd: ubuntu is for support questions - not help writing a book [11:07] :) am not talking to you , [11:07] then this conversation is over - please leave the channel [11:08] you are Accuser of this discussion so you stand beside [11:08] alabd: this conversation is over - please leave the channel now [11:08] humble have complaint from you , and you can not ask me leave channel , humble am here to complaint from you [11:09] !ops | please remove alabd from the channel, he has taken 2 hours to complain about his ban and is just wasting time now [11:09] please remove alabd from the channel, he has taken 2 hours to complain about his ban and is just wasting time now: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler! [11:09] ikonia called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (please remove alabd from the channel, he has taken 2 hours to complain about his ban and is just wasting time now) [11:09] !appeal | alabd [11:09] alabd: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page. [11:09] alabd: please follow that appeals procecss - but we are now done in this channel [11:10] ? [11:10] gnomefreak: please remove alabd from the channel at my request, he has taken up 2 hours making a pointless agrument, he is now to follow the appeals process [11:11] ikonia: no there is written please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. [11:11] alabd: you have visited, and failed to resolve the issue, please follow the process [11:11] alabd: may i please advise you to read the information given to you. than please exit channel [11:11] gnomefreak: you are not aware of discussion read discussion , yes but there is written please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. [11:12] and am asking you op's here to deal with my complaint [11:12] alabd: you have been here for 2 hours, and 4 operators have tried to resolve your issue, and failed. Please follow the appeals process and include details of your complaint [11:12] alabd: i saw that you did not read the link given as it was given to you more than once [11:13] who banned him? [11:13] me [11:13] ikonia: thanks [11:14] gnomefreak: humble have explained before that those links were not my answer , read all discussion here from first and then judge [11:14] enough now [11:14] alabd: please come back in 24 hours to revist this. in the 24hours please read th appeals link. [11:15] gnomefreak: you mean humble come back tomorrow here ? [11:15] alabd: i dont judge, however you are not getting anywhere, since ikonia will not unban you, you should follow up to apeal that way [11:15] alabd: i mean come back in this channel or if ikonia needs more time he will let you know [11:16] ikonia: do you need more time ? [11:16] is that ok with you, or do i need to explain it further? [11:17] alabd: I don't need any more time and I will not be progressing this ban at any time in the near future, so I suggest you follow the appeals process [11:17] sure [11:17] gnomefreak: thanks a lot [11:18] and thanks all [11:18] God gives you peace [11:18] noted [11:22] alabd: if you don't need anything else, can you please leave the channel [11:22] gnomefreak: what does this mean ? > For other issues, a meeting will be scheduled where two independent people from the dispute resolution team can weigh in on the issue. [11:22] alabd: please exit this channel if you dont have anything else [11:23] alabd: 2 people other than ikonia will look over the logs and either ban stays or they will remove it [11:23] s/2/pease [11:24] poeple. sorry hand is asleep [11:24] gnomefreak: should humble request that ? [11:24] alabd: 3 other operators have already looked at this in the past two hours, [11:25] 4 others if you include gnomefreak's recent interaction [11:25] sorry i have to ask. what is "Humble"? [11:25] alabd: if you feel you want another two people to look at the issue, then request it and follow the process [11:25] gnomefreak: it's a language issue, humble is his name, [11:25] ikonia: thanks [11:25] gnomefreak: eg: 3rd person reference, it's just a language issues [11:26] ok be back [11:26] thanks gnomefreak [11:26] ikonia: np [11:26] gnomefreak: only 1 person mneptok that was in discuss from first , said his opinion [11:26] so humble require one another person [11:27] alabd: mneptok flannel, popey [11:27] alabd: they have all looked at this issue. If you want more people, follow the appeals process you have been given [11:27] (sorry for the hilight guys - didn't think) [11:27] alabd: follow the appleals process and some of us will look into it. unless called upon myself andf ikonia will not be the ones who will decide [11:27] gnomefreak: Flannel did not say his opinion at last , and popey was not in discuss from first you can see above [11:28] sorry for highlight [11:28] alabd: then follow the process to request more people look at it [11:28] please follow the process than please exit the channel if you have nothing else we can help you with. [11:28] now i really will be back in a minute [11:28] laters gnomefreak [11:28] gnomefreak: you mean this ? #ubuntu-irc-council [11:29] alabd: do what the wiki page you have been sent tells you to do [11:29] If the previous step has failed then feel free to join #ubuntu-ops. Another operator might be able to resolve the problem. For other issues, a meeting will be scheduled where two independent people from the dispute resolution team can weigh in on the issue. [11:30] should humble request another person here or should humble go to #ubuntu-irc-council ? [11:30] alabd: ok -if you want to waste more time in this channel, fine [11:30] are there any other operators available to look at alabd's ban [11:32] alabd: if there is is no-one free at the moment (which it looks like there is not) I suggest you either join the council channel and ask there (however they are also in this channel) or send an email to the mailing list in the wiki page to arange a meeting [11:32] alabd: i have seen the entire discussion, I wouldn't have said anything if I hadn't. [11:33] alabd: ok - so popey has also reviewed the situation as I said earlier [11:33] alabd: would you still like another operator ? [11:34] popey: thanks for that but have you asked ikonia why did he answered the same answers when humble told him that is not proper answer ? [11:34] alabd: they where the correct answers, you just didn't like them [11:34] no no [11:35] well, I'm not discussing that any futher [11:35] this is the thing that popey should judge [11:35] alabd: no it's not, you are here to have your ban resolved, you where banned for flooding the channel in caps after being told not to [11:36] alabd: i merely examined the events leading up to the ban, and your conduct in here since. I see no reason for the ban to be lifted at this time. [11:37] IIRC stage1: in here stage2 IRCCouncil stage3 CC but i havent read it yet [11:38] alabd: I suggest you just contact the irc council as described in the wiki page and we stop all futher discussion in this channel [11:38] this is going no-where, so contact the council [11:38] i will be back in a little while i have to start laundry and make coffee [11:39] popey: so a question , a user is talking with another user on a question , once OP comes and repeat his not proper answers , user says to OP the question again , OP again answer the same not proper answer , and after that user asks question for some time he will be banned , so hyou think this is true ? [11:39] alabd: take this to the council - lets stop in here [11:40] I agree, take it to the IRC Council who are tasked with dealing with these types of conflicts. [11:40] ok [11:40] thanks a lot all who paid attention [11:40] God gives you peace bye [11:41] phew [11:42] that whole 'humble' thing is something I've not encountered before. [11:42] it's just a language issue [11:42] his name is "humble" [11:42] his actual name? [11:42] from what he says, yes [11:43] ok, that's less odd then. [11:43] its likely a translation of his name - the chinese do similar things - so you end up with honey and flower... [11:43] and humble... [11:44] he's persian, so that would make sense [11:44] thanks [11:49] is the above 2 hours of broken record, or worth actually reading/ [11:50] no [11:50] "no" is rarely a useful response to an "or" question :P [11:51] sorry missread. Broken record is the correct response [12:08] in the above convo s/humble/humbly [12:08] it is not his name but a language barrier [12:11] hmm wait. maybe it is his name [12:11] whatever. [12:42] whew. [12:42] * Pici finished reading scrollback [12:45] you read all that? [12:46] you are a better man then I Charlie Brown [12:54] IdleOne: its our job to be upto date on everything... [12:54] I know :) [12:55] No matter how many crazy logs it takes.. [12:57] i read most of the backlogs, even if didn't have to [12:57] that's a remnant of the irc addict days [13:02] Well, reading that scrollback was a fun way to start off the day. I end the day with one troll, and begin with a ban appeal ;) [13:02] heh :) [13:02] nhandler: so he did file an appeal? [13:03] I can't say. The channel and ML are private for a reason [13:03] sorry I forgot [13:03] IdleOne: No problem [13:03] would be interresting to sit in on the process some time though [13:04] Not as much as you'd think. [13:06] Pici: +1 [13:07] I suppose I can imagine what the process is like [13:07] much like an appeal in here except less public [13:07] Its a little more calm, as with email you get more time to organize your thoughts. [13:51] * ikonia returns [13:51] Ok, for reals, can we spank ljl? [13:51] I don't know whats going on. [13:52] * ikonia leaves [13:53] Pici, he's knowingly pushing buttons, that's what. We call that baiting. [13:53] all he did was say the word hitler [13:54] not sure exactly how that is deserving of spanking [13:54] IdleOne, he compared a winning team to hitler, i believe. That's godwinning. Godwinning is bad. [13:55] I see [13:56] It has to be done. [13:57] and after reading quickly what godwinning means I have to agree [13:57] From now on, no free passes for him. [14:04] which ops is he talking about? [14:09] IdleOne? [14:09] yes? [14:09] not sure, must have missed that whole episode [14:10] IdleOne, well i was hoping you could answer the question I'd asked. [14:10] few days back he and Flannel had a discussion and Flannel told him to stop acting like an idiot [14:11] And was something said here? [14:11] (as in this channel?) [14:11] not sure if it was said in here [14:12] I don't remember exactly. logs perhaps. in any case Flannel was not publicly repremanded by me or any other op but it was clear by all our reactions that it was not acceptable [14:13] iirc I asked that they drop the subject and seemed as if they were both going to but ljl continued and Flannel did respond more respectfully from that point on [14:13] it was all just a clash of personalities [14:14] I wouldn't put anything ljl does down to a mere clash. He's cultivating stuff, not just wandering aimlessly in to it. [14:15] I do believe he has a point though, a lot of times I see people get away with some things that he would get called on. Not just ops but regular users also [14:15]