[00:40] <akgraner> rickspencer3, ping - just wanted you to know - I went through the surveys from SELF yesterday - many of them mentioned your Quickly session as their highlight
[00:40] <rickspencer3> akgraner, sweet
[00:41] <akgraner> and I had people asking me day Saturday and Sunday about Dev and App Dev week
[00:41] <akgraner> all day I meant
[00:42] <akgraner> rickspencer3, Thank you again!
[00:44] <mneptok> rickspencer3: see? pays to go shirtless and oiled when giving presentations.
[00:44]  * rickspencer3 shudders
[00:45]  * akgraner rolls my eyes at mneptok :-P
[00:46] <mneptok> you rolled a 6. missed saving throw.
[00:47] <akgraner> mneptok, I couldn't get that database to work you told me about - will you have some time tomorrow to help me trouble shoot it
[00:48] <mneptok> akgraner: sure thang
[01:43] <RoAkSoAx> away gone
[02:42] <m3ga> i'm booting lucid on a tablet device. in windows the tablet has a working wifi device, but in ubuntu, neither lspci nor lsusb list anything that looks like a wifi device.
[02:42] <m3ga> any clues as to what to look for?
[02:43] <StevenK> m3ga: It could be a SD device?
[02:44] <m3ga> StevenK: how would i figure that out?
[02:44] <StevenK> I was still trying to work that one out
[02:44] <m3ga> :-)
[02:48] <ScottK> IIRC SD devices show up under USB.
[02:48] <StevenK> I thought that depended on the USB HCD?
[02:49] <ScottK> Could be.
[02:49] <m3ga> StevenK: there is a wifi enable button on the side. i've messed with it but it still doesn't show up. maybe the button needs driver code to enable the chip before it can be listed with lspci.
[02:49] <ScottK> m3ga: Did you boot with the button enabled?
[02:49] <m3ga> since all the other hardware on this is intel, i suspect the wifi will also be intel
[02:50] <ScottK> I've seen kernel issues with wifi switches were they didn't work if they weren't on at boot.
[02:50] <TheMuso> m3ga: In windows, did you check in device manager how it connects? Devices can be viewed by how they are connected, available from the view menu.
[02:50] <m3ga> its not a toggle button, just a momentary contact. i'll try booting while holding it down.
[02:50] <m3ga> TheMuso: i know close to nothing about windows. completely baffles me :-)
[02:51] <TheMuso> m3ga: Ok do you know how to get to device manager? If not, let me know what version of Windows you are using and I'm happy to talk you through how to open it.
[02:52] <m3ga> holding the button while booting didn't help.
[02:53] <m3ga> rebooting to windows (windows 7 btw TheMuso)
[02:53] <TheMuso> m3ga: Ok, getting to device manager will be easy then.
[02:53] <m3ga> it boots windows rrrreeeaaalllllyyyyyy slow
[02:54] <TheMuso> heh
[02:56] <m3ga> ok booted
[02:56] <TheMuso> Ok, to get into device manager, simply open the start menu, and type device manager (if the device has a keyboard). If not, we will have to take a longer route
[02:56] <TheMuso> If typign device manager is possible, you should see it appear as an option. You should be able to click on it to open it.
[02:57] <m3ga> easy. have usb keyboard connected
[02:57] <TheMuso> ah ok that helps.
[02:58] <TheMuso> Once in device manager, open the view menu, and choose "view devices by connectin", I think thats what its called.
[02:58] <TheMuso> Then its a matter of expanding the tree view to find the wifi device
[02:58] <m3ga> wow, wireless is usb. "3DSP Wireless 802.11 B+G  Adaptor"
[02:58] <TheMuso> and going back through the tree view to see how the device connects to the system.
[02:58] <TheMuso> wow
[02:59] <m3ga> ok, i can google that
[03:00] <m3ga> some old stuff from 8:10 : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1234213
[03:00] <TheMuso> I have no idea at this point sorry, I just know that WIndows device manager can help in working out how a device connects.
[03:01] <m3ga> thank Luke!
[03:01] <TheMuso> np
[03:01] <JanC> device manager can also show you the usb ids
[03:01] <m3ga> ah yes, i should grab those
[03:02] <Sarvatt> VID_05E1&PID_0100
[03:02] <Sarvatt> according to google
[03:07] <m3ga> Sarvatt: yes, confirmed
[03:09] <Sarvatt> its a syntek device, found a manual http://www.stk.com.tw/driver/Wireless/STA-UI-A0037S_USB_User's_Manual.pdf
[03:09] <Sarvatt> http://www.stk.com.tw/product-01.asp?Product_Type=58
[03:09] <Sarvatt> lucid drivers there too, downloading to see what they are :)
[03:13] <m3ga> Sarvatt: lspci output here http://pastebin.com/Uw9tRzsv
[03:14] <m3ga> would like to get wifi and X working, but need lunch. back in an hour.
[03:33] <nixternal> jcastro: forgot to say thanks in MI before closing out. stuck using a GUI IRC client right now :/
[03:33] <ajmitch> nixternal: you've had some bad luck there
[03:33] <nixternal> just a little
[03:34] <nixternal> though, i have to admit..that server was a frankenstein box with components from the 90s
[03:34] <ajmitch> held together with duct tape & prayers?
[03:34] <nixternal> need to find a system that uses very little power to do what it did. all it was used for was IMAP/Mutt, Irssi, and my SSH gateway to my home
[03:35] <nixternal> actually, held together with dust
[03:35] <ajmitch> oh one of them - the type you should never try & clean
[03:35] <nixternal> but my big puters bit the dust as well...now I am just a netbook luser :)  you can't do much with a netbook, except surf the intertubes
[03:35] <micahg> nixternal: I might have a box that would work for that soon
[03:36] <nixternal> micahg: yeah, a lil POS box is all I need. though I am thinking of a little crap box from tiger direct
[03:36] <nixternal> $80
[03:37] <nixternal> gotta love the community though. i forgot i had one of those donation buttons on my site..someone donated $50, but I refunded it. don't want to be that guy
[03:38] <nixternal> damn, tiger direct doesn't have that lil $80 crap box anymore :/
[03:38] <micahg> nixternal: well, I might be able to save you that if you can wait till the weekend
[07:10] <zzcranjo> Hey all, I am looking to get into programming, specifically helping with the ubuntu devel process. What is the primary language that ubuntu is coded in? Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I have never tried programming before...
[07:15] <jmarsden> zzcranjo: Ubuntu is programmed in many many languages.  As a beginner, maybe start with Python.  See http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
[07:16] <zzcranjo> thanks :D I am no stranger to python as I use blender quite frequently
[07:16] <jmarsden> You're welcome.
[07:25] <zzcranjo> So in theory, python can be used to program anything in ubuntu/linux? Is it optimised for certain types of programs?
[07:27] <m3ga> zzcranjo: python is really only useful for user space programming. all the drivers and a large proportion of low level user space daemons are written in C.
[07:27] <m3ga> all the kernel is also in C
[07:28] <zzcranjo> ok. Thats ok as at first i would like to be able to see what i program :D
[07:28] <m3ga> with a very small amount of assembler
[07:28] <zzcranjo> ty
[07:28] <hyperair> m3ga: there are some python daemons too.
[07:29] <zzcranjo> Also, how easy is it to actually contribute source code to the ubuntu project? is it vetted by mods?
[07:29] <m3ga> there are also some in ocaml and haskell, but most are written in C, followed by C++.
[07:29] <m3ga> zzcranjo: best to submit to the upstream project rather than ubuntu.
[07:30] <m3ga> ubuntu and debian prefer not to modify upstream sources too much. they figure that upstream knows their project better.
[07:30] <zzcranjo> upstream?
[07:30] <zzcranjo> (sorry, im new :D)
[07:32] <m3ga> eg postfix is the mail daemon in ubuntu. the upstream project is http://www.postfix.org/
[07:32] <zzcranjo> what is upstream? what does it mean?
[07:33] <m3ga> similarly, for the samba server http://www.samba.org/
[07:33] <zzcranjo> oh so upstream is just the different programs that come with ubuntu
[07:33] <m3ga> upstream means the people who actually do the coding on that project
[07:33] <zzcranjo> oh ok
[07:33] <m3ga> yes.
[07:34] <m3ga> ubuntu/canonical do some development work, but more than 90% of the distro has a separate upstream that is used by all the distros and freebsd and other unices
[07:34] <zzcranjo> so once I get decent knowledge of python, I would be an upstream developer of whatever program I chose to make. Is there a filtering process to get into the sources like there is for itunes apps?
[07:34] <m3ga> nowhere near as bad as apple.
[07:35] <zzcranjo> thats good to know :D
[07:35] <m3ga> most stuff that is in ubuntu is there because it is in debian. ubuntu packages are mostly just slightly tweaked debian packages.
[07:36] <m3ga> as for debian, getting a package in is pretty easy as long as the license is ok.
[07:36] <zzcranjo> ok
[07:36] <m3ga> once its in debian, it will automatically show up in ubuntu some time later
[07:36] <zzcranjo> So I license something how i want? I can choose whether it is proprietry, open source etc?
[07:36] <zzcranjo> btw thanks for your help m3ga :D
[07:37] <m3ga> open source license and it will almost certainly be accepted. some proprietary stuff is also accepted into debian's non-free section.
[07:37] <m3ga> sorry, gotta go. back in an hour :-)
[07:38] <zzcranjo> ty cya
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <zzcranjo> good afternoon ;)
[08:04] <pitti> Good morning
[08:04] <pitti> mr_pouit: we need it for an OEM project, but yes, my intent was to package it for maverick and backport it from there
[08:05] <pitti> kees: oh, will there be another security upload of eglibc?
[08:06] <hyperair> m3ga, zzcranjo: *free* licenses will certainly be accepted. especially if it fulfils Debian's Free Software Guideline
[08:06] <hyperair> zzcranjo: you can't go wrong with GPL ;-)
[08:06] <zzcranjo> gpl is free, but closed source?
[08:07] <hyperair> GPL is free and open source
[08:07] <pitti> mr_pouit: oh, seems it's all done in the PPA already
[08:07] <hyperair> zzcranjo: check out the DFSG, for the definition of "free"
[08:08] <zzcranjo> dfsg?
[08:08] <hyperair> Debian Free Software Guideline
[08:08] <zzcranjo> oh ty
[08:08] <hyperair> !dfsg
[08:08] <zzcranjo> !dfsg
[08:08] <hyperair> hmm damnit
[08:08] <hyperair> there isn't anything
[08:09] <zzcranjo> lol
[08:09] <hyperair> well the first few things on google should be correct
[08:09] <hyperair> wiki even
[08:09] <hyperair> http://www.debian.org/social_contract
[08:09] <zzcranjo> I actually have a vague recollection of something like that
[08:09] <zzcranjo> ty will check it out
[08:10] <ericm-afk> pitti, so far no response from ubuntu-sponsors for bug 427805, the bug is affecting many people actually, anything else I can help?
[08:10] <hyperair> zzcranjo: there are some commonly used licenses in /usr/share/common-licenses/ which you might like to check out
[08:11] <zzcranjo> ok ty
[08:11] <zzcranjo> very sorry if this is not supposed to be in this room, but does anyone know how I can change how long notifications(music, empathy etc) stay on screen? Is it in ccsm?
[08:12] <pitti> ericm: so there are three patches on that bug, and the first one changes autoconf all over the pplace
[08:13] <pitti> ericm: what do I actually need to apply?
[08:13] <ericm> the first one changes autoconf so that the legacy package can build
[08:13] <pitti> ericm: and it breaks debian/control
[08:13] <pitti> - libusb-dev
[08:13] <pitti> + libusb-1.0-0-dev
[08:13] <ericm> the 2nd one actually fixes the problem
[08:13] <pitti> this is not libusb-1.0
[08:13] <pitti> oh, the first one is the upower port
[08:14] <pitti> nevermind
[08:14] <ericm> pitti, Grrrr... that's not from me, so only the 2nd one please
[08:14] <pitti> ericm: what's the third one? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49434737/libusb.patch
[08:14] <ericm> the 3rd one actually came from fedora mailinglist and seems to me it fixed some potential bug, but not this one
[08:15] <ericm> so at this moment, only the 2nd one is significant
[08:15] <pitti> alright, thanks
[08:15] <ericm> the 3rd one tested to be no side effect so far at my side, should be a plus - but may not be suitable for a SRU
[08:17] <pitti> ericm: ok, I'll sponsor the second one for now, and followed up upstream
[08:19] <ericm> pitti, thanks man - a lot duplicated bugs and many mac users are affected
[08:20] <ericm> strange enough - it seems so far to affect mac users only (who cares, :-)
[08:21] <zyga> good morning
[08:22] <hrw> morning
[08:22] <ericm> pitti, another general question in my mind - as we don't actually maintain libusb-0.1, what's the process to deal with such fixes in the future? (to me it's easy way like subscribe ubuntu-sponsor, yet I'd like to know a bit more detail)
[08:23] <pitti> that's pretty much it
[08:23] <pitti> we just need to patch it on our own, but more importantly, port stuff over to -1.0
[08:24] <pitti> ericm: uploaded to maverick; preparing lucid SRU now
[08:25] <ericm> pitti, thanks, I'll try my best do it, that needs to be involved in upower upstream, and have that special usb device or something
[08:25] <pitti> ericm: upower is already ported
[08:26] <ericm> pitti, got you - so the best practice is to have a upower branch and get it tested and merged?
[08:27] <pitti> I'll package it shortly
[08:28] <zzcranjo> anyone know when gnome3/gnome-shell is going to be implemented in a release as the default gnome wm?
[08:28] <ericm> pitti, thanks
[08:32] <ericm> pitti, confusing - https://launchpad.net/upower - Upower is a next generation boot splash system for Linux
[08:33] <hyperair> huh?
[08:33] <hyperair> upower = bootsplash?
[08:33] <hyperair> wasn't upower the devkit-power rename..
[08:34] <pitti> it's most certainly not a splash :)
[08:35] <pitti> the description would match plymouth
[08:36] <hyperair> indeed
[08:36] <hyperair> the website linked doesn't exist.
[08:36] <hyperair> nanofreesoft.org, i mean
[08:37] <pitti> oh, seems it was indeed a different project
[08:37] <hyperair> Usermode graPhical pOWER.
[08:37]  * hyperair facepalms
[08:37] <hyperair> what kind of name is that?
[08:37] <pitti> bah
[08:38] <hyperair> there's no code either
[08:38] <hyperair> it's just a project page with nothing on it
[08:39] <ericm> hyperair, pitti, and interesting, a lot upowerd related bugs subscribe this upower as the source package, doh!
[08:39] <hyperair> which is obviously wrong.
[08:40] <hyperair> is there a way to unmark the link between this upower and upower in ubuntu?
[08:40] <pitti> or rename this project..
[08:40] <pitti> can someone poke #launchpad about this?
[08:41] <ericm> bzr clone lp:upower
[08:41] <ericm> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:upower": upower has no default branch.
[08:41] <hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upower/+bug/133181/comments/1
[08:41] <ericm> but the version number of this upower seems consistent with the one in my lucid system
[08:41] <hyperair> take a look
[08:41] <hyperair> upower's a dead project that has been merged into usplash and splashy
[08:43] <dholbach> ericm: lp:ubuntu/upower
[08:43] <ericm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/0.9.4-2, see packages built by this source
[08:43] <ericm> dholbach, ah sorry
[08:44] <dholbach> ericm: the difference is: "lp:upower" means "default trunk of an upstream project registered in launchpad"
[08:44] <ericm> dholbach, I see
[08:44] <dholbach> ericm: "lp:ubuntu/upower" means "source package branch of development release"
[08:44] <ericm> dholbach, now it's fetching
[08:44] <dholbach> ericm: in case you knew this already, ignore me :)
[08:45] <ericm> dholbach, I pretended to know this already - since I was embarrassed :-)
[08:45] <dholbach> haha, almost got away with it ;-)
[08:45]  * dholbach hugs ericm
[08:45]  * ericm has red face
[08:47] <dholbach> it IS confusing
[08:47] <ericm> so it really looks strange about this upower project - maybe just the title is incorrect and actually we reused the original dead project
[08:47] <dholbach> I'm still waiting for the "bzr fix-bug 1234567" plugin :)
[08:47] <dholbach> sorry ubottu
[08:48] <ericm> hehe
[08:48] <dholbach> the people in #launchpad would know how to reset it or change it if it'd make sense to change things now
[08:48] <ericm> so far it looks like only the title is wrong, the cloned code is all right
[08:49]  * ericm has to be offline for a while
[08:49] <dholbach> alright
[08:51] <ajmitch> dholbach: is that like the bzr do-magic-stuff plugin?
[08:52] <dholbach> ajmitch: ok… "bzr let-me-fix <bugnr>"
[08:53] <ajmitch> so lookup the appropriate project/package, branch it, and present you with a nice working tree ready to fix stuff?
[08:55] <dholbach> yeah, and maybe set the push location already
[08:55] <dholbach> oh and "bzr pbuild" :)
[08:56] <ajmitch> and maybe even fill in some of debian/changelog? we could dream, but I think you'd run into problems with multiple bug tasks for a bug #
[08:56] <dholbach> yeah, that's right
[08:57] <ajmitch> apart from that, it sounds possible
[08:57] <dholbach> it could be reportbug-esque, check the list of open ubuntu tasks only that are not in progress or fix committed yet and present you with a list *shrug* :)
[08:57] <dholbach> I could imagine that "bzr pbuild" would have more users :)
[08:58] <ajmitch> so, got time to hack on it? :)
[08:58] <ajmitch> by pbuild, do you mean using pbuilder from a bzr branch?
[08:58] <dholbach> I should at least file a wishlist bug about bzr pbuild
[08:58] <dholbach> yes
[08:58] <ajmitch> I think that's possible with some magic at the moment
[08:59] <dholbach> basically   bzr bd -- -S -us -uc && sudo pbuilder build ../<some dsc file that matches>    :)
[09:00] <dholbach> (and for that I wouldn't care if the output is a native package or not)
[09:00] <ajmitch> you can set the default builder command in the config, I think
[09:01]  * ajmitch just has to find where he'd set that up
[09:02] <dholbach> I think it'd be useful for people new to the process who want to fix their favourite bug and just bzr branch; <edit>; bzr pbuild; bzr commit; bzr push; bzr lp-open
[09:02] <ajmitch> isn't groundcontrol meant to help with the same problems, just from a gui perspective?
[09:03] <ajmitch> the main problem I've had this week with trying to fix stuff in bzr is the speed of getting branches from LP
[09:03] <dholbach> yes, from a gui perspective, although I'm not sure how well it copes with source package branches and related stuff
[09:04] <ajmitch> having bzr branch take > 3 hours was a bit painful, but apparantly the bzr launchpad plugin could support some mirroring, with some work on the plugin & the LP side
[09:05] <dholbach> holy cow
[09:05] <dholbach> how far's the lightweight checkout stuff?
[09:05] <ajmitch> it was virtualbox-ose, it wasn't lightweight :)
[09:07] <dholbach> I meant the bzr lightweight checkout stuff :)
[09:07] <ajmitch> yeah I know, I didn't try it
[09:08]  * ajmitch should check up on whether it's safe to do the virtualbox-ose merge
[09:09] <ajmitch> though I don't know if it's updated to work as a guest with 2.6.35 & the version of X in maverick
[09:23]  * cjwatson genuinely has no idea why pygi seems upset (in scrollback), and will take it to e-mail
[10:36] <htorque> hello, can it be considered a bug that booting with an attached usb card reader (empty) moves the only internal hard disk from /dev/sda to /dev/sde? didn't happen with lucid.
[10:41] <soren> htorque: Stuff like that is exactly why we boot based on UUID's.
[10:41] <soren> htorque: Device names are non-deterministic. Don't rely on them.
[10:41] <soren> htorque: In short, no, this is not likely to be considered a bug.
[10:43] <htorque> soren: k, thanks
[10:43] <soren> htorque: Sure.
[11:05] <Nailor_> Hi. I'm running in problems with pbuilder. It's unable to install debhelper to my hardy chroot when building packages. I'm using Lucid
[11:09] <pip> Hello, I can't share the swap partition of ubuntu with another linux distribution , I guess its due to the encryption reason of that swap
[11:21] <hrw> btw - how much buildd power amd64 arch has?
[11:27] <amitk> hrw: https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
[11:29] <hrw> thx
[13:12] <stvo> ping pitti
[13:13] <lool> cjwatson: Pushed xdeb with a couple trivial tweaks from the testing I did this week-end, will you be in a position to NEW it, or should I make sure someone else does?
[13:16] <cjwatson> lool: somebody else ought to do it since I've been heavily involved
[13:16] <lool> Right, that's what I thought
[13:16] <lool> james_w: Would that be something you would have the time to do?
[13:16] <james_w> yes
[13:16] <james_w> it's there now?
[13:18] <james_w> (yes)
[13:23] <james_w> lool: done. The description could use some love.
[13:23] <lool> james_w: Thank you
[13:27] <lool> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/450072/
[13:27] <lool> james_w: thanks!
[13:28] <james_w> lool: better, thanks
[13:39] <pitti> stvo: pong
[14:12] <smoser> Riddell, around ?
[14:14] <Riddell> smoser: afternoon
[14:14] <smoser> :)
[14:14] <smoser> so, ofr ebsmount, you think i probably need to get a new upstream tarball with more consitent file headers
[14:14] <smoser> is that right?
[14:15] <Riddell> smoser: yes, with files under a free licence and a full copy of the licence text included in the tar
[14:15] <smoser> the debian/copyright file is in the original upstream tarball (and commited to their git repo) so it does seem reasonable.
[14:16] <Riddell> smoser: I wouldn't be happy accepting it since it disagree with what the actual source files say
[14:16] <smoser> yeah, thats fine.
[14:16] <smoser> i agree, it should at least be consistent.
[14:16] <buxy> seb128: did you find the time to file the dh7 enhancement request we discussed yesterday?
[14:20] <seb128> buxy, not yet sorry but it's still on my todolist, I've only a bunch of items before it so I think I will get to it today
[14:20] <buxy> great
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> kees - are you there?
[15:03] <kees> chrisccoulson: hello!
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> hi kees. i'm just working on the firefox 3.6.4 update for karmic, and going through my packaging branch reviewing all of the changes that have flowed from lucid. one of these changes is the addition of hardening-wrapper as a build-depend
[15:05] <chrisccoulson> is this something we want to keep in karmic?
[15:07] <kees> chrisccoulson: yes, please.
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> kees - ok, thanks
[15:08] <kees> chrisccoulson: np.  let me know if it causes any problems (it shouldn't, though).
[15:18] <psusi> ahh, kees, just the man to ask since you made this commit... I'm confused by http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/lvm2/maverick/revision/46
[15:18] <psusi> it says merge from debian... so I would expect to see to parent commits... r45, and the debian branch that was pulled from... but that doesn't seem to be what is there...
[15:18] <psusi> s/to/two
[15:19] <kees> psusi: the bzr tree for lvm2 was unusable for a bzr-based merge.
[15:19] <kees> psusi: I didn't do anything with the bzr tree as a result, because it was a total mess.
[15:20] <psusi> so... what is this commit telling me?
[15:20] <kees> psusi: lvm2 got upgraded in the past to an intermediate upstream (total fork from Debian), and then upstream merged devmapper into lvm2, so Debian followed that, so really it's 3 bzr trees into 1.
[15:20] <psusi> it looks like it shows two parents, but I would expect one of them to be revision 45 and neither seems to be
[15:21] <kees> I have no idea -- I didn't actually perform that commit.  I think it was automatic.
[15:21] <psusi> weird
[15:22] <kees> it was the nastiest merge I have ever done.  :)
[15:22] <psusi> well, wherever you merged from, doesn't ONE of the parents have to be the previous revision?
[15:22] <kees> anyway, based on the "Revision ID" you can see it was done as part of the bzr auto-sync (james.westby@...)
[15:23] <cjwatson> those merge icons are just the merges from other branches
[15:23] <cjwatson> r45 is implicit
[15:23] <kees> psusi: nope, that's what I mean.  Ubuntu's version was totally different from Debian's, and Debian's was totally different from the Ubuntu fork point.
[15:23] <psusi> ohh... ok.... so this is a merge that pulls from two other branches onto r45...
[15:23] <cjwatson> probably one via the other
[15:25] <psusi> ok... so if I want to see the history of the debian branch this merge pulled from, how do I do that?  I would expect that to happen if I click on the 3.1.8 squeeze link, but it doesn't seem to be what I get...
[15:27] <cjwatson> psusi: the "Changes" tab at the top
[15:28] <psusi> hrm... ok... I guess I actually am looking at the squeeze history... just through the looking glass of this branch... rather than looking at the branch that was pulled from...
[15:28] <cjwatson> once a branch is merged, its full history is available in the branch it was merged into, with dotted revision numbers
[15:28] <cjwatson> the web interface may not be the easiest way to get that level of detail though
[15:30] <psusi> right... I see that now... was just confusing... I wanted to be looking at the other branch
[15:31] <psusi> the other night I had tried updating to the latest upstream sources and most of the patches didn't apply... and most of them have no comment header describing what they were created for
[15:33] <psusi> so now I'm trying to find where they were added in bzr and read the commit message...
[15:34] <psusi> and am having a hell of a time
[15:49] <ion> tseliot: It might be nice if the nvidia and fglrx packages had a dependency on xorg-video-abi-$n just like xserver-xorg-video-* have. If i were to get around to making a patch, would it be accepted?
[15:50] <tseliot> ion: a dependency or something like Provides: xserver-xorg-video-6
[15:50] <tseliot> ?
[15:52] <tseliot> as nvidia does that already
[15:52] <ion> A dependency. The drivers would block the upgrade of xorg which would introduce an ABI incompatibility until versions of the driver packages supporting the new xorg appear.
[15:53] <pitti> it sohuld be a provides, not a depends
[15:53] <pitti> the xorg server already conflicts to -video-6
[15:53] <pitti> which DTRT
[15:53] <ion> Ah, indeed.
[15:53] <pitti> ion: in our setup, drivers Provides: the abi number and xorg depends on it
[15:54] <pitti> kind of unintuitive and backwards, but I guess they had their reasons
[15:54] <ion> So, only fglrx needs a change to provide xserver-xorg-video-$n.
[15:54] <pitti> seems like it
[15:55] <tseliot> yes, that would be easy to do
[16:03] <hallyn> mathiaz: is there anything else i am supposed to do to re-request sponsoring for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/maverick/qemu-kvm/update-to-12.4/  ?  (I dont' see any "feedback addressed" option by your previous feedback that I can hit)
[16:06] <mathiaz> hallyn: if you go on the merge proposal page: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/maverick/qemu-kvm/update-to-12.4/+merge/27293
[16:06] <mathiaz> hallyn: on the left side you'll see a resubmit proposal link
[16:07] <mathiaz> hallyn: I've also added kirkland as a reviewer
[16:07] <hallyn> mathiaz: thought i'd hit that already...  but jsut hit it and it seemed to work - thanks
[16:08] <hallyn> (thought i'd hit it 3 times!)
[16:08] <hallyn> (glad i asked then)
[16:08] <mdz> doko, lool, cjwatson: if there's more to talk about regarding the toolchain, we can do it here
[16:12] <doko> mdz: could we do this later this week? running out of time today, and I'd like to get some performance data (benefits) on ix86. For now the test packages are available in https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ppa
[16:12] <mdz> doko: sure
[16:45] <geser> pitti: just reading the irclogs for the TB meeting: isn't !sru the factoid for the wiki page for SRUs? so reusing it for the panic button might trigger several false positives till everyone adapts to its new meaning
[16:46] <maco> it changed?
[16:46] <maco> so now how do we direct people to the wiki page?
[16:46] <geser> maco: not yet
[16:46] <maco> so at some point its going to sneak up on me? :(
[16:47] <lool> james_w: Mind NEWing xdeb in binary NEW as well?  (sorry!)
[16:47] <geser> maco: the is a plan to eventually change it (see the todays TB meeting logs)
[16:48]  * maco hopes its at least being replaced. was a useful factoid
[16:49] <pitti> geser: oh, it was just a strawman; we could call it !regression or !stable-alert or whatever
[16:49] <hallyn> kirkland: regarding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and bug #588293, should i actually butcher the original bug description to add that info, or is it ok to just add it in follow-on comments?
[16:49]  * hallyn luvs bots
[16:50] <geser> pitti: might be better unless you want to get pinged when someone wants to point somebody else to the SRU wiki page :)
[16:50] <geser> !sru
[16:50] <geser> pitti: ^^ see
[16:51] <maco> pitti: !omgsru
[16:51] <komputes> Is anyone interested in repackaging blt with the patch on this Bug #359857 (it is currently unstable, last stable version was in hardy). Once patched and tested this would be proposed as an SRU in Lucid.
[17:04] <kirkland> hallyn: better to add it at the bottom of the bug description, you can enclose your section in [17:04] <kirkland> hallyn: descriptions are editable, comments are not
[17:04] <kirkland> hallyn: and it's not a big deal in small bugs like this, but some bugs have hundreds of comments, and the SRU notes can get lost eaisly
[17:05] <hallyn> kirkland: will do thanks
[17:05] <hallyn> (alas i built 64-bit packages but only have a 32-bit lucid install to test on, waiting for re-build :)
[17:05] <hallyn> oh there we go
[17:33] <hallyn> kirkland: is ubuntu-sponsors the right list to use for requesting merge review for the qemu-devel fix branch?
[17:33] <kirkland> hallyn: yes, for stuff in universe
[17:33] <kirkland> hallyn: sorry
[17:33] <kirkland> hallyn: yes, for stuff in MAIN
[17:34] <kirkland> hallyn: ubuntu-universe-sponsors for stuff in UNIVERSE
[17:34] <hallyn> there's a separate 'ubuntu-sponsors-main'
[17:34] <kirkland> oh, hm...
[17:34]  * kirkland looks
[17:34] <kirkland> hallyn: well, i'm not sure any more ... jcastro ?
[17:35] <jcastro> kirkland: not sure
[17:35] <jcastro> I thought sponsorship got merged?
[17:36] <nixternal> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sponsors
[17:36] <nixternal> the teams have been merged into one now
[17:36] <nixternal> hallyn: ^^
[17:37] <hallyn> nixternal: thanks
[17:37] <hallyn> kirkland: thanks
[17:38] <kirkland> nixternal: ah, cool, i forgot about that, i guess, thanks.
[17:39] <nixternal> hehe, no problem
[18:04] <zyga> does anyone remember a bzr command that would update the debian changelog in native packages in one shot?
[18:04] <pitti> zyga: it's usually better to do it the other way round: edit debian/changelog and then use debcommit
[18:04] <pitti> which will pull out the message, parse out the LP/debian bugs, and so on
[18:05] <zyga> oh, debcommit
[18:05] <zyga> that's what I was looking for, thanks
[18:05] <pitti> zyga: and then dch -r/debcommit -r for an upload
[18:05] <pitti> debcommit == ♥
[18:06] <pitti> -r will tag, generate an appropriate message, and commit this as a "release"
[18:06]  * mathiaz agrees with pitti 
[18:08]  * zyga goes to read man and use it
[18:08] <zyga> thanks guys
[18:33] <apw> pitti, who would the right person be to talk to about a firewire stack change ?
[18:34] <directhex> Keybuk is officially the best person ever (via twitter)
[18:34] <pitti> apw: not sure actually; we don't integrate it very much in the UI, except for things like kino talking to cameras, and of course firewire based block devices (which won't change API-wise, I guess)
[18:34] <apw> pitti, so if the kernel switches from old to new stack by default you don't see userspace exploding ?
[18:35] <pitti> apw: some bits certainly will :)
[18:35] <pitti> in particular, kino and friends used to talk to /dev/raw1394, i. e. might be sensitive to abi changes there
[18:35] <pitti> but *shrug*
[18:35] <apw> pitti, if we wanted to do that, is there anything other than telling ubuntu-devel@ (which we already have) that we should do ?
[18:36] <pitti> awolfson: u-devel@ sounds fine to me
[18:45] <ScottK-droid> pitti: would you please rescore kdepimlibs kdegraphics (only affects armel)
[18:46] <pitti> ScottK-droid: nudged
[18:46] <ScottK-droid> pitti: Thanks.
[18:49] <mr_pouit> Riddell: "we sync automatically from debian"… of course, I know that. The question is: when? I've some packages that are in unstable since around may 25 and are still not imported. And they won't probably be imported before thursday, and I'll have to do lots of paperwork after feature freeze… This is the reason why I filed the bug report, to be sure it would be synced!
[18:51] <ScottK-droid> Thursday isn't feature freeze.
[18:52] <Riddell> mr_pouit: it's a fair question, new syncs from debian are run manually and it's a fairly tedious process involving filtering out any packages we don't want
[18:52] <Riddell> mr_pouit: do you have any examples of packages which should be synced but which aren't?
[18:53] <mr_pouit> Riddell: e.g. parole, in unstable/testing
[18:54] <mr_pouit> *g*, it has been synced this afternoon
[18:54] <mr_pouit> okay, bad example :)
[18:54] <Riddell> mr_pouit: see when I'm on archive duty, things happen :)
[18:54] <mr_pouit> okay, okay ^_^
[19:01] <james_w> lool: does the package follow the python policy?
[20:35] <superm1> apw, could you also CC ubuntu-mythtv@l.u.c about the firewire stack change?  hopefully at least someone on there can help to test myth* userspace
[21:32] <apw> superm1, thanks for the heads up
[21:51] <lool> james_w: Python policy for xdeb, yes, it build-deps on the relevant stuff and ends up with the proper runtime deps; it has a ./usr/share/python-support/xdeb.private telling it about the private dirs too
[22:11] <kirkland> slangasek: around?
[22:16] <slangasek> kirkland: hi
[22:16] <kirkland> slangasek: feel free to tell me to go away (or elsewhere)
[22:17] <kirkland> slangasek: but I'm looking for someone with some knowledge of the Desktop Live seed, preferably who's online now :-)
[22:17] <slangasek> ok
[22:19] <kirkland> slangasek: so I'm trying to put together a UEC LiveISO seed
[22:20] <kirkland> slangasek: so I started with the "live" seed, copied it to live-uec
[22:20] <kirkland> slangasek: dropped all the langpack stuff, and ubiquity
[22:20] <kirkland> slangasek: and now i'm trying to blacklist openoffice, games, video, graphics, sound, etc.
[22:21] <kirkland> slangasek: i guess i was looking for any tips/pointers
[22:21] <kirkland> slangasek: i'm sure i'm not doing it the most efficient way possible
[22:21] <slangasek> you can't blacklist packages in seeds
[22:22] <slangasek> seeds are whitelists by nature; the blacklist directive only lets you throw an error when something creeps in that you didn't want
[22:24] <kirkland> slangasek: hmm, i was trying something like:
[22:24] <kirkland> == Blacklist ==
[22:24] <kirkland> libavcodec cannot be shipped on CDs (cf. Ubuntu technical board resolution 2007-01-02).
[22:24] <kirkland>  * !libavcodec*
[22:25] <slangasek> yes; all that does is cause an error *if* something pulls in libavcodec
[22:25] <kirkland> slangasek: ah, bumemr
[22:25] <kirkland> slangasek: okay ... hrm
[22:26] <kirkland> slangasek: so would it be better for me to create my deal as a meta package in ubuntu-meta ?
[22:26] <slangasek> ehm, the contents of those metapackages are entirely autogenerated from the seeds :)
[22:27] <kirkland> slangasek: heh, okay ........
[22:28] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, let's simplify the question ....
[22:29] <kirkland> slangasek: let's say that I wanted to create a seed, call it live-uec, that is basically the same as the live desktop cd, except it removes openoffice-* and adds eucalyptus-*
[22:29] <kirkland> slangasek: how would you recommend i go about doing that
[22:29] <slangasek> for my part, I question whether it's really so important to keep these applications out of the live-uec seed
[22:29] <slangasek> but, the way to do it is this:
[22:29] <slangasek> - identify the bits that are common between your new seed and the existing one
[22:30] <slangasek> - move those packages into a new seed
[22:30] <slangasek> - restructure the 'live' seed to depend on the new seed
[22:30] <slangasek> - create your new live-uec seed, also depending on this new common seed
[22:31] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, thanks
[22:41] <james_w> lool: well, I was meaning "should it install the modules in a public location?"
[22:44] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, so i have what i think might be a reasonable seed ... is there a tool i can run (germinate or something) to see what all it will bring in?
[22:44] <kirkland> slangasek: and ideally build an ISO locally?
[22:44] <slangasek> germinate is packaged, yes
[22:44] <slangasek> building an ISO> awkward to achieve for live CDs
[22:55] <ScottK-droid> Would an buildd  admin please rescore kdebindings.
[23:21] <slangasek> cjwatson: bug #594839> didn't you fix this already?