[12:57] <mpt> Noooooo, come back vish
[13:02] <mpt> Hello godbyk and thorwil
[13:03] <thorwil> hi mpt, godbyk
[13:03] <mpt> [godbyk] idle 15:02:01, signon: Wed Jun 16 22:01:16
[13:04] <mpt> hmm :-)
[13:04] <mpt> So, this team seems to be shrinking
[13:04] <mpt> Ivanka, Charline, and David are all busy with Canonical stuff today
[13:04] <mpt> hi vish
[13:05] <thorwil> hello vish. seems it's just mpt, you and i
[13:05] <vish> hi
[13:05] <vish> yay , meeting cancel then ;p
[13:06] <thorwil> would we had a topic, even? besides the ux-pattern thing being a total fail?
[13:08] <mpt> Well, I had two things in mind
[13:08] <mpt> One was vish's situation with papercuts
[13:08] <mpt> And the other was heuristic bug tagging
[13:09] <mpt> But now maybe we have a more important one, how to increase team participation :-)
[13:09] <thorwil> i though vish eats papercuts for breakfast?
[13:10] <vish> mpt: ah yeah , i went through the papercuts and most of them seem to not require the gtk3 , so it shouldnt hurt us much
[13:10] <mpt> Yes, he does, but Ubuntu 10.10 will be shipping the same version of Gnome as 10.04 did
[13:10] <vish> mpt: + we can use your FTDAU , if you already have them sorted out
[13:11] <mpt> vish, what sorting out are you looking for?
[13:11] <vish> mpt: seemed like you already had a few FTDAU in your mind :)
[13:11] <vish> so we could address those
[13:12] <thorwil> what's FTDAU?
[13:12] <mpt> Fails To Do Anything Useful
[13:12] <mpt> a counterpart to the existing ftbfs = Fails To Build From Source
[13:12]  * thorwil knows DAU as Dümmster Anzunehmender User = dumbest user to be expected
[13:13] <mpt> ha
[13:13] <vish> mpt: and david mentioned we can be clear about the gnome situation, we have nearly 200 confirmed+triaged papercuts..
[13:13] <vish> we need people fixing them :s
[13:14] <mpt> vish, the only ones I know of at the moment are the various prism-* apps, which don't lanch because they "Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.2 and 1.9.2.*." But every so often I install an application from Universe and it does nothing, or crashes on startup, or shows an empty window, or whatever.
[13:14] <mpt> I haven't made a list.
[13:15] <thorwil> simply broken packages are papercuts. too?
[13:16] <mpt> thorwil, so the idea is that they're an important set of bugs to fix, even if they're not bugs that someone might experience in their first day using Ubuntu
[13:17] <vish> mpt: ah cool,we can just add the FTDAU to a milestone ? once you can get a clearer definition of what it can cover?
[13:18] <mpt> vish, I'm not sure what you mean by "add the FTDAU to a milestone"
[13:19] <vish> have all those similar FTDAU bugs in one milestone , you mentioned prism-*  do we deal with each package as a bug?
[13:19] <mpt> I was thinking more, announce the tag, talk to whoever we need to talk to to make it an "official tag" for Ubuntu, campaign for people to fix them
[13:20] <vish> wfm :)
[13:21] <mpt> thorwil, what did you mean by "the ux-pattern thing being a total fail"?
[13:22] <vish> mpt: we can have a milestone for "improving software center experience" , we encourage user to find all such packages? and try to sort them out?
[13:22] <thorwil> mpt: a bit of editing by aday, nobody else picking it up: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ui-patterns
[13:24] <thorwil> mpt: so it's either i continue all by myself, or nothing happens. it will be nothing happens, actually as i have more rewarding activities
[13:24] <mpt> vish, oh, you mean a milestone within the Papercuts project? That's an interesting idea. I was thinking of it as more of a long-term thing, like FTBFS is.
[13:25] <vish> mpt: yeah , people already like tagging bugs as papercuts , once this becomes more familiar , we can continue FTDAU long-term too
[13:26] <djsiegel> (Sorry I'm late, guys!)
[13:26] <mpt> thorwil, it's a success if subsequent revisions to interface guidelines take those patterns into account. It's a failure if subsequent revisions don't take those patterns into account. If there haven't been any revisions yet, it might be too early to declare failure. :-)
[13:26] <mpt> vish, ok. I've already started using a "metadata" tag for bad package descriptions that show up in USC, too.
[13:27] <mpt> hi djsiegel
[13:27] <thorwil> mpt: the idea was to get people from the ayatana list working on that. after a week without response, i'm sure nothing will happen from that side
[13:27] <mpt> ah, ok
[13:27] <djsiegel> I have a few things to mention during the meeting about UX Advocates if we have time at the end.
[13:28] <mpt> thorwil, compiling design guidelines is a highly unsexy task, so I wouldn't be too disappointed about that.
[13:28] <mpt> djsiegel, UX advocates, go
[13:29] <djsiegel> ok, awesome!
[13:29] <mpt> Keeping in mind there's just ~5 of us here :-)
[13:29] <djsiegel> Ok, who is here btw?
[13:29] <thorwil> djsiegel: vish mpt thorwil
[13:29] <vish> mpt: yeah , papercuts had a lot of bugs filed for bad "metadata" , we can polish them as well , people are very excited about the software store now. we can just use the momentum.
[13:29] <djsiegel> So, OpenUsability.org is creating a project called Summer of Usability
[13:30] <mpt> 4 ≈ 5
[13:30] <vish> err, S *center
[13:30] <djsiegel> they want to pay a bunch of HCI students $1000 to work on a well defined usability task in an open source project
[13:30] <mpt> I think they did this last year too
[13:30] <djsiegel> cool
[13:31] <djsiegel> so we need to channel this energy into UX Advocates
[13:31] <djsiegel> I am speaking to the guy organizing the project
[13:31] <djsiegel> would be awesome to get 10 paid UX Advocates grouped with various OSS projects
[13:31] <mpt> hm
[13:32] <mpt> So would they be short-term UX advocates?
[13:32] <djsiegel> historically 50% of their sponsored students stick with the OSS project they work with during the summer
[13:33] <mpt> ah, cool
[13:33] <djsiegel> so if you guys could check out openusability.org and just be aware for now, that would be excellent
[13:33] <djsiegel> and be aware of http://openetherpad.org/uxadvocates1
[13:34] <mpt> There is no EtherPad document here.
[13:34] <thorwil> http://openetherpad.org/uxadvocates
[13:34] <mpt> ok
[13:35] <djsiegel> oops
[13:35] <mpt> Thanks djsiegel
[13:35] <mpt> So, before next week's meeting, I will:
[13:35] <mpt> * arrange an agenda in advance
[13:36] <mpt> * e-mail a reminder to everyone
[13:36] <djsiegel> mpt: Jan-Christoph Borchard wants to work on USC and Update Manager
[13:36] <djsiegel> sorry for interrupting
[13:36] <mpt> * invite a couple more people to join the team. :-)
[13:36] <mpt> no worries
[13:37] <mpt> Thank you thorwil and vish for turning up despite my neglect
[13:37] <vish> ;)
[13:37] <thorwil> heh
[13:40] <thorwil> mpt: i'm not surprised, either. although, personally, i don' consider compiling guidelines that unsexy. it's just too expensive in time and though for me, currently
[13:41] <mpt> thorwil, oh sure, it's fascinating for me too, but we're weird
[13:42] <thorwil> yeah
[14:02] <wers> oops i'm late
[14:04] <thorwil> wers: it's ok, mpt didn't close the meeting, yet :)
[14:04] <mpt> haha
[14:04] <wers> hahaha
[14:05] <mpt> Somebody e-mail me a gavel
[14:08] <thorwil> not email, but this will do: http://www.canyon-news.com/artman2/uploads/2/gavel.gif
[14:10] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:10] <thorwil> wers: djsiegel brought up http://openusability.org/, who will do another Summer of Usability, paying a few students to work on OSS projects
[14:10] <thorwil> arg
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: so mpt and vish talked about papercuts and tagging bugs. i pointed out the trying to get ayatana list dwellers to work on ux patterns failed.
[14:12] <thorwil> wers: djsiegel brought up http://openusability.org/, who will do another Summer of Usability, paying a few students to work on OSS projects
[14:12] <wers> got dc
[14:13] <wers> cool thorwil . i got your two messages after reconnecting
[14:14] <thorwil> np. so meeting closed for real, i'd say, if further discussion -> #ayatana
[14:14]  * thorwil -> coffee
[14:14] <wers> thorwil, thanks man!
[14:15] <vish> thorwil confirms he is Brad Pitt Of ubuntu ;)
[23:36] <IdleOne> membership meeting tonight?
[23:41] <easter_egg> IdleOne, yes
[23:41] <IdleOne> easter_egg: thank you
[23:42] <easter_egg> IdleOne, in one hour
[23:42] <IdleOne> I'll be here with bells and whistles on :)
[23:43] <Ursinha> :)
[23:48] <easter_egg> IdleOne, haha