[00:46] <tonyyarusso> Looks like you might get your storms sparklehistory
[00:48] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Yup!
[00:50] <tonyyarusso> Reasonably decent article about Conficker:  http://theweek.com/article/index/203969/the-last-word-the-ultimate-computer-worm
[02:58] <Takyoji> Anyone ever used a radio receiver device in Linux via a PC/IF radio cable?
[02:59] <Takyoji> I have a receiver that you can connect to a computer and collect data and/or control the device with.
[02:59] <Takyoji> I'll be returning in under half an hour or so
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> Hey h00k, lookit what I can do!
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('eventCode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> TOR
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('geocode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> 027039
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> (Translation:  Tornado Warning for Dodge county)
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> also, scratch what I said yesterday about modifying feedparser - I'm an idiot.
[03:24] <Takyoji> Depends on the URL though :P
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> what now Takyoji ?
[03:24] <Takyoji> Nothing; the JS you're talking of isn't specific to Dodge county was all I was saying
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> JS?.......
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> This is Python, parsing XML.
[03:25] <Takyoji> Oh, interesting
[03:25] <Takyoji> Looked like JS with the typical function chaining
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> and 027039 == FIPS6 code for Dodge county, MN
[03:25] <Takyoji> Aside from doc, since it's document
[03:26] <Takyoji> (which would be the only thing to throw it off from looking like true JS)
[03:26] <Takyoji> Anyway, anyone done any radio-like things on Linux at all?
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> So matching 027039 tells you where it's for, not URL-dependent.
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> 027123 is Ramsey county
[03:27] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:27] <tonyyarusso> (These are the area codes used by the National Weather Service in their SAME radio broadcasts)
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> 927137 is the south-east corner of St. Louis county (Duluth)
[03:29] <Takyoji> otherwise on Saturday I'll be on vacation for about a week
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> a leading 0 means the county is not subdivided.  Otherwise it's 1,2,3 4,5,6 7,8,9 west-central-east, north to south.
[04:10] <Takyoji> otherwise as implied, I'll be in the Grand Rapids area for a week.
[04:11] <Takyoji> I notice jenkinbr happens to be the only one mapped to that area.
[04:19] <Takyoji> Looks practically like +90% of the Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo team is in the metro
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> or at least of those who have mapped themselves, yeah
[04:48] <Takyoji> Well yea
[04:49] <Takyoji> It just seems like a handful more mapped in the metro area since last time I checked
[04:49] <tonyyarusso> Probably because our outstate people are a bunch of slackers who never plan any events or anything.
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> *nudgenudge*
[04:51] <Takyoji> So then what else would there be to do other than an installfest at this time?
[04:51] <tonyyarusso> Ubuntu Hours!
[04:52] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: 'cause that worked so well last time
[04:52] <Takyoji> Now that I'm finally done with high school!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> Presentations about random topics!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> LAN party!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> Pizza & movie night - you can watch Antitrust :P
[04:52] <Takyoji> So now I don't have an excuse for no Ubuntu Hour, aside from location and money (so I don't seem like some guy coming to a building to just steal their wireless everyday)
[04:52] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: What's a LAN party?
[04:52] <Takyoji> :P
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: gaming
[04:53] <Takyoji> Tremulous!
[04:53] <tonyyarusso> bzflag!
[04:53] <Takyoji> This small "city"/town..
[04:54] <Takyoji> I know a LAN party could be possible anywhere there's electricity, since you don't need the Internet; but that may be a turn off to some..
[04:55] <tonyyarusso> You have 21,000 people.  That's plenty.
[04:55] <Takyoji> I'm complaining about buildings available though. :P
[04:55] <Takyoji> otherwise I don't have an official job as of yet
[04:59] <Takyoji> Heh, it's be interesting if I could also receive raw ATSC transmission using my scanning receiver and watch television on my laptop. xP
[05:25] <Takyoji> Bleh, Excel sheets: http://www.dtv.gov/broadcastersupport.html
[05:25] <Takyoji> They could even just use CSV
[05:27]  * tonyyarusso is sad that Saturn is dead
[05:39] <Takyoji> It's interesting how it seems like the idol browsing shifting from Firefox to Chrome in like under a year or less
[06:06] <kermit> i rarely use chrome yet it's already given me some error about a currupted settings file
[06:07] <kermit> so it doesnt seem too reliable.. though firefox  3.6.3 has a bug that deletes my form history randomly.
[06:12] <Takyoji> Oh fun
[06:12] <Takyoji> I haven't had an errors with Chrome yet
[06:13] <Takyoji> any errors*
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> http://www.ifitwasmyhome.com/#loc=Ontonagon%2C%20MI%2C%20USA&lat=46.8710525&lng=-89.3140302&x=-88.523014575&y=47.446263695399125&z=7
[06:21] <sparklehistory> hmm, I see it got Split Rock and Gooseberry today
[06:26] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen that on Rachel Maddow yet
[07:09] <Takyoji> Anyone used barry or berry4all at all?
[15:55] <h00k> tonyyarusso: lookit what?
[15:55] <h00k> tonyyarusso: oh
[15:55]  * h00k reads backlog
[19:07] <tonyyarusso> http://xkcd.com/754/
[19:27] <kermit> i can't read that, i still havent read 753 yet
[19:55] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: yeah, i thought it was amusing
[22:46] <Takyoji> Yaaaaay! https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
[22:50] <Takyoji> By the way, does the default encryption method of SSH tunnelling increase the size of the content significantly than when the content wasn't encrypted?
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> y6es
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> yes
[22:53] <Takyoji> because I'd love to be able to have an encrypted SOCKS tunnel when using GPRS (or whatever the correct physical protocol is)
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> heh
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> Well.....
[22:55] <Obsidian1723> You could setup a VPN tunnel and SSH over to it, then have a proxsy server on the other end, and use w3m.
[22:55] <Obsidian1723> n ice an encrypted, too much though so that it'd east cpu, bandwidth, edtc.
[22:55] <Takyoji> I'll be tethering through a cellphone from a laptop
[22:56] <Takyoji> and will have images disabled in the web browser
[22:56] <Obsidian1723> ahh
[22:57] <Takyoji> and I think OpenSSH is capable of compressing data as well
[22:57] <kermit> i'm skeptical that encryption increases the data size, are you sure?
[22:58] <Takyoji> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/93451/does-aes-128-or-256-encryption-expand-the-data-if-so-by-how-much
[22:58] <Takyoji> I have a feeling that only Blowfish is the one that actually significantly increases in size
[22:58] <Takyoji> and perhaps a few oldie methods
[22:59] <Takyoji> SSH typically uses RSA/DSA, right?
[22:59] <kermit> my ssh doesnt anyway
[22:59] <kermit> (doesnt make it bigger i mean)
[23:00] <kermit> OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu3, OpenSSL 0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009
[23:00] <kermit> or at least not more than 0.3%
[23:02] <tonyyarusso> Increase, yes, but I don't know if it's "significantly".
[23:04] <Takyoji> Another thing I've always been curious of: is there a way to throttle a whole system's connection (perhaps a virtual machine for example), just to see how something loads on slower connections?
[23:04] <Takyoji> (in terms of web development and so forth)
[23:08] <Obsidian1723> Yes, you can do that easily enough. You need a managed switch to do that though, so you can throttle the one PCs connection.
[23:08] <Obsidian1723> Just limit the bandwidth u/l and d/l speeds
[23:09] <Obsidian1723> I have such a switch for sale, if you are interested.
[23:09] <kermit> iptables does it
[23:11] <Obsidian1723> I'd still do the switch.
[23:12] <Takyoji> after all, it's only for testing; it's not like I need it for throttling someone's connection on enterprise network or anything of that extent.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> Hardware is supperior to software everytime. It bottlenecks less. If you could eliminate software and everything was hardware, youd still have bottlenecks, but less of them. Your PC would instantly power on.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> I hear ya.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> I run Cisco switches in my home's server room and have my hosue wired with RG-58 and CAT5e, b ut thats me.
[23:18] <Takyoji> By the way, does the "shred" command only write random data over the exact location the file is?
[23:18] <Takyoji> I though it was to scramble it (or just 0 it), and delete it as well.
[23:20] <tonyyarusso> It can do any or all of the above
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> The feds can still recover data though. Only surefire way is a hard drive shredder.
[23:22] <kermit> Takyoji: strace
[23:22] <Takyoji> So it can still be recovered if it's overwritten several times and read to check the integrity, then nulled? :P
[23:22] <tonyyarusso> I love how people think the NSA can magically recover data when all evidence says that's bogus.
[23:22] <Obsidian1723> and does that evidence come from people who work with them?
[23:23] <kermit> tonyyarusso: yeah i know a guy who does that for a living and he says you really cant on modern drives
[23:23] <tonyyarusso> Exactly.
[23:23] <Obsidian1723> kermit, what was his reasoning?
[23:23] <tonyyarusso> We don't even have evidence that they can recover data after a single pass of 0s, much less multiple random passes.
[23:24]  * tonyyarusso is a computer forensics major, btw
[23:24] <Obsidian1723> You guys need to look into computer forensics. I think you'll be severly surprised aqt just what is possble.
[23:24]  * Obsidian1723 works in security with govt agencies btw.
[23:25] <tonyyarusso> What actually is possible, or what your boss tells you is possible to cover his ass multiple times over?  :P
[23:26] <Obsidian1723> There's some pretty good tools out there, like I.N.S.E.R.T., Trinuty Rescue Disk, Hirens (which has OnTrack with it), BackTrack, F.I.R.E., but they pale compared to what the public will never have.
[23:27] <tonyyarusso> Tools don't change what's possible, only how hard it is to train someone to do it.
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Well, even with the right tools and training, the natural mindset cant be taught. You can teach someone to be a surgeon, and they may be good, but then someone else has this something extra ability, even though they went through the same training.. Itsl ike that.
[23:28] <kermit> what's trinity resuce disk have anything to do with restoring overwritten data?
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Just beause you can play the notes, does not mean you can make the music.
[23:28] <kermit> you must not mean 'trinity rescue kit'
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Just saying there are tools out there for sniffing things out, but not quite on par with what the govt has.
[23:29] <kermit> "trinity rescue kit" is just a distribution of linx
[23:29] <kermit> linux
[23:29] <tonyyarusso> So you're saying the government has magic.  Because that's the only explanation for what you're claiming.
[23:29] <Obsidian1723> tony, believe me or not. I CAN'T say.
[23:29] <tonyyarusso> Typical :P
[23:30] <Obsidian1723> No. Typical CA
[23:30] <Takyoji> Considering it could just be a write buffer for a harddrive or something similar that just needs to be cleared or overwritten
[23:30] <tonyyarusso> "Really, trust me!"
[23:30] <kermit> hirens also appears to be simply software
[23:30] <Obsidian1723> Like I said.. belive me or not, but I cant put my job at risk, sorry.
[23:31] <Obsidian1723> Youve never signed aq CA I take it tony?
[23:31] <tonyyarusso> Yeah well.  Once there's even some tiniest shred of a reason to believe you're not full of crap I'll consider it.
[23:31] <Obsidian1723> -q
[23:31] <kermit> i must have the wrong 'hirens with ontrack' as well as the wrong 'trinity rescue'
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> It doesnt matter if you believe me or not, that doesnt change what is. Itsn ot like your disbelieving me won't make it no longer possible.
[23:32] <kermit> unless you're claiming an ordinary PC can recover overwritten data.
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> Im just staing what is, thats all.
[23:32] <kermit> (as those are just PC software kits)
[23:32] <tonyyarusso> Tell you what, why don't you bring in a disk I give you to work, and come back and tell me what's on it?
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> kermit, what version of hirens? Maybe they removed it. last I looked, verion 9 something had it.
[23:33] <kermit> version 10.5 is still just software
[23:34] <Takyoji> and I find it entertaining that EFF also strongly believes in the use of shred as well; they must be non-believers as well. :P
[23:34] <Takyoji> (referring to https://ssd.eff.org/tech/deletion )
[23:35] <Obsidian1723> Well, its like locking your front door... it will keep most people out, but not everyone.
[23:35] <Obsidian1723> Honestly, most people dont need to worry. Im simply saying that if they want it, thyey will get it.
[23:36] <tonyyarusso> I'm still waiting for an answer to my challenge.  Are you going to put anything behind your claims, or just keep spouting them?
[23:36] <Takyoji> I believe you're along the lines of forgetting to delete all instances of the data
[23:36] <Obsidian1723> tony, do you feel threatened or something?
[23:36] <kermit> i'm still waiting to know if he claims ordinary PC hardware can read overwritten data
[23:37] <Takyoji> such as temporary file
[23:37] <Takyoji> files*
[23:37] <kermit> since the tools he cited are merely software
[23:37] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: eh?  Why would I feel threatened?
[23:37] <Obsidian1723> I dont know if hardware can do that or not. I work with the agencies, but they get all the neat toys. I just know they exist.
[23:37] <kermit> we're arguing that not even specialized hardware can, so that would put the claim even farther away.
[23:37] <Takyoji> People just get annoyed with the whole wizardry case of "i can hax the NSA's database!"
[23:37] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Do you actually use these tools, or just hear about them in the break room?
[23:37] <Obsidian1723> I do know there are software programs t hat the govt has that people do not.
[23:38] <Takyoji> (which are the ones that say such for personal ego, typically)
[23:38] <Obsidian1723> not in the break room.
[23:38] <tonyyarusso> That did not answer the question.  What is your job?
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> Working with various hardware and software for govt agencies, and no, I am not going into specifics. Again, I signed a CA.
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> MKy hands are legally tied.
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> but I do not do data recovery, I can tell you that.
[23:40] <tonyyarusso> So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.  End of story.
[23:40] <Obsidian1723> If you believe so, or not...either way it doesnt matter or change what is.
[23:40] <Takyoji> Then I have a feeling that the offer still stands. :P
[23:40] <Obsidian1723> Im simply stating what is, thats all.
[23:40] <tonyyarusso> No, it doesn't.  And "what it is" is that your claims are utter bunk.
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> So you want me to break a CA?
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> f that.
[23:41] <kermit> this reminds me of when someone tried to defend the use of the unit "kw/h"
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> I need my job thanks.
[23:41] <tonyyarusso> I'm not asking you to tell me how - I'm just asking you to prove you can do it, and magically come back with the data.
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> You didn't read the part about where I don't use the fun toys, but only know of them.
[23:42] <tonyyarusso> And don't have any friends at work?  How sad.
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> I dont know how to fly an airplane either, but I know it can be done.
[23:42] <Takyoji> Then it can be delegated to those who do
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> lotsa freinds at work actually. whjy would you AS|U|ME otherwise?
[23:42] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, and we've all seen airplanes fly.  That's all we're asking for here.
[23:43] <Obsidian1723> and I can no more prove to you what can be done, any more than I can prove to you what is at Area 51 (and that I DON'T know what is there..wish I did.)
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> Sure you can.  You just won't.  Because you don't want us to know the real answer, which is nothing.
[23:44] <Obsidian1723> like I said... I know it can be done, not my area. I deal with other aspects of security, not forensics.
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> You don't "know" anything - you've merely been told.
[23:44] <Obsidian1723> Tony if it is nothing, then why are you so convinced so?
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> huh?
[23:46] <kermit> Although Gutmann's theory may be correct, there's no practical evidence  that overwritten data can be recovered. Moreover, there are good reasons  to think that it cannot.[5][6][7]
[23:46]  * tonyyarusso sends over a Magic Eye poster to "zoom and enhance" until a license plate number appears for something easier to start with
[23:46] <kermit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery#Overwritten_data
[23:46] <Obsidian1723> Tomny, that's a strawman argument.; You've been told many things that you can't prove by that same measure because you weren't there, yet you still accept them. Arguing with people on the Internet is like winning the special olympics.. you know the rest. It is what it is. Believem e or not. Cool either way man. Just dont get busted by the feds and find out, thats all.
[23:47] <Obsidian1723> taqke it, leave it, matters not to me.
[23:47] <tonyyarusso> Mmmmmmm, wouldn't be a government job without spreading unsubstantiated fear, would it Obsidian1723 ?
[23:47] <Obsidian1723> no. I leave the FUD to MS
[23:48] <tonyyarusso> You'd think you'd care at least a little bit about your personal integrity.  Oh well.
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> oh and your camera thing is interesting. it is a well known fact that the satillitie cameras can read right along with you if you read a book outside.
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> tony, I can about my job and a CA, oh well.
[23:49] <tonyyarusso> And your job/CA requires you to lie to the public.  Gotcha.
[23:49] <Obsidian1723> if I didnth ave integrity, would the CA matter? think about it.
[23:49] <Obsidian1723> I never said I lied. Now you accuse me of lying? really.. the grapes are soure arent they>?
[23:50] <tonyyarusso> I was accusing you of lying like 20 minutes ago, and yes, still am.
[23:50] <tonyyarusso> That would be the word for making false claims, which is what you are doing.
[23:52] <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better?
[23:52] <kermit> http://pastebin.com/eUDXUxqC -- a hilarious "kw/h" "debate"
[23:53] <tonyyarusso> Which clause of your CA prevents you from showing that it's possible exactly?  And I care because one way is true, and the other is bogus, and you're peddling the bogus one.
[23:54] <Obsidian1723> Nothing o nthe CA prevents me from saying its possible, I just can't provide Proof. "Ok here, call XYZ at XCD agency and hes at X # anjd.." ummmm no.
[23:54] <Obsidian1723> again.....
[23:55] <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better?
[23:55] <kermit> why'd you cite tools that dont do what you claim is possible?
[23:56] <Obsidian1723> merely giving examples of tools that the public has access too. I suppoose OnTrack would have been a better example.
[23:57] <tonyyarusso> I like how you once again decided to answer a different question than the one I asked.  It's that sort of thing that provides a glaring red flag that you're being dishonest.
[23:57] <kermit> kroll on track?
[23:58] <kermit> thats funny, because Kroll is where the friend i mentioned who told me it's impossible works.
[23:58] <tonyyarusso> kermit: Yes, although it is written Kroll OnTrack as he did.  That much at least was true.
[23:58] <tonyyarusso> also, if you want to mention tools the public uses, FTK and EnCase should be on your list, since that's what most of the private sector has.
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> Do you really think the govert wants proof out there that they can get at whatever they want unless the hard drive is destroyed beyond reason like a shredder, blowtorch, etc?
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> think about it.
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, EnCase is pretty good actually, best of the 3