[00:19] <akgraner> anyone have a few minutes to collaborate on an anti-harassment policy?
[00:19] <valorie> for what, akgraner?
[00:20] <akgraner> a Linux Fest
[00:20] <valorie> ooo, cool
[00:20] <valorie> maco told me there were problems
[00:20] <valorie> which is Not Cool
[00:20] <akgraner> yep
[00:21] <valorie> The Ohio LinuxFest is dedicated for making Open Source truly open to everyone. We do not discriminate based on ethnic background, religion, gender, sexuality, body shape, disability, or even what operating system you use. We also do not tolerate harassment based on discrimination.
[00:21] <akgraner> soooo - I want to go ahead draft the policy and the present it to our board
[00:21] <valorie> http://www.ohiolinux.org/about.html
[00:22] <valorie> sounds like a good starting point
[00:22] <akgraner> yep ws looking at that as well
[00:22] <akgraner> was
[00:22] <akgraner> http://www.cahp.girl-wonder.org/con-resources/
[00:22] <valorie> I like that it is positive first
[00:22] <akgraner> is what I am looking at as well
[00:23] <valorie> I like that even better
[00:23] <valorie> rather than "we do not"
[00:24] <akgraner> yep - this is more a formal policy I am talking about - not the statement in the description - I think both are needed
[00:24] <akgraner> but if someone wants a copy of our policy I want to make sure we have one
[00:24] <valorie> your link looks excellent
[00:24] <valorie> good questions
[00:25] <akgraner> skud sent it too me
[00:25] <akgraner> she rocks
[00:25] <akgraner> so I am going to start here with a blank page and start working on it
[00:25] <akgraner> http://ietherpad.com/SoutheastLinuxFest
[00:25] <valorie> indeed
[00:25] <valorie> I don't have time right now
[00:25] <valorie> but will look in later
[00:26] <akgraner> so if anyone wants to add to it based on formal policies they know of please feel free to
[00:26] <valorie> I hope maco will chime in as well
[00:26] <akgraner> thanks valorie!
[00:36] <JanC> akgraner: I'd say, keep it as simple & general & short as possible
[00:40] <JanC> oh, and include something about the staff/organisation deciding on what constitutes harassment
[00:43] <pleia2> yeah, I think trying to define harassment tends to be a mistake (it can be physical, it can be verbal, it can be very subtle...)
[00:44] <JanC> and the more you define it, the easier to try to stay at the the safe side while still being annoying
[00:45]  * pleia2 nods
[01:05] <MichelleQ> akgraner: if you need help with the anti-harrassment policies, I've got some small-business resources that might offer a springboard, too
[01:05] <akgraner> thanks
[01:05] <akgraner> I think I have a good start  :-/
[01:06] <akgraner> MichelleQ, http://ietherpad.com/SoutheastLinuxFest
[01:06] <MichelleQ> if you want me to proofread the final product, let me know
[06:49] <svaksha> akgraner: harassment can take on different forms too. Ex. getting cronies/buddies to gang-up and complain against a whistle-blower, a cabal silencing dissent....etc...
[06:51] <svaksha> defining the abstract is hard when there are so many shades of grey
[06:52] <JanC> yeah, that's why I suggested keeping it as open as possible, and saying the staff/board decides, not the visitors etc.
[06:55] <svaksha> true, which is why any board/staff needs folks who are _clued in_ about diversity issues.
[07:02] <JanC> IMHO most of it is about common sense & general politeness
[07:04] <JanC> but of course a reminder about that might be useful, as well as some information about cultural differences in case people aren't used to that...
[07:05] <nigelb> amber's written up some good good stuff though
[08:01] <hypatia> akgraner: " In general, we can take no action to prevent a person from attending Southeast LinuxFest unless that person has made a specific and credible threat toward the LinuxFest itself." <-- this is super problematic.  it's a private event - you can tell anyone to leave and not come back.
[08:02] <hypatia> you're seriously asking people to get /restraining orders/ before banning anyone?
[08:02] <hypatia> because that's ridiculous.
[08:05] <hypatia> the "we can take no action" thing is simply not true.  it's a cop-out.
[08:07] <nigelb> also if its one of the organizers - what do you do then?
[08:07] <pleia2> yeah, legally you can tell anyone to leave
[08:07] <hypatia> i say this because i know other cons which do and have kicked out people who have committed sexual assaults or sexually harassed con attendees
[08:07] <hypatia> without the police being involved.
[08:16] <JanC> that part was copied from another event's policy AFAIK
[08:17] <hypatia> ok, well, it's no good, in my opinion :)
[08:17] <JanC> and I suppose it's about cases where there is no way for the organisers to judge things
[08:17] <hypatia> that's not what it says at all
[08:17] <JanC> but it might need some clarification maybe
[08:17] <hypatia> "in general" != "in cases where we can't judge"
[08:19] <JanC> I won't be surprised if that's the general case, in practice...
[08:19] <JanC> but still, might be worded better
[08:21] <hypatia> anyway, i've said my piece here, going to bed.
[08:21] <hypatia> nite folks.
[08:21] <JanC> your point is certainly useful  ☺
[10:20] <valorie> that statement pulled me up short also
[10:20] <AlanBell> hypatia: I think that is not referring to kicking people out, but refusing them entry in the first place
[10:20] <valorie> I would just leave it out entirely, if it was me
[10:21] <AlanBell> it does read a bit odd
[10:21] <valorie> "we can take no action" shouldn't be in there
[10:21] <valorie> but I gotta go to bed, so that's my input
[10:21] <valorie> nighters all
[10:21] <AlanBell> o/
[18:06] <akgraner> I was just pulling from other event policies to see what the SELF board thought etc... none of the stuff on the eitherpad was set in stone..
[18:09] <akgraner> but I have since deleted it all  - and will just ask for a policy that already exists and we can just fill in the blanks..  - I am a little crispy over the whole thing at the moment.  What I thought would be an easy fix well it isn't - Thank you all.. I really appreciated it.
[18:09] <akgraner> wasn't not was - sigh typing fail today
[18:10] <pleia2> these things are never easy fixes
[18:10]  * pleia2 hugs akgraner 
[18:11] <pleia2> thanks for working on it
[18:11] <akgraner> pleia2, thanks
[19:43] <AlanBell> It just occurred to me to look at the percentage of women signed up to the Ubuntu in Business event we are doing in London
[19:43] <AlanBell> there are 10 obviously female names out of 119
[19:44] <AlanBell> there are a number of ambiguous names such as "Robin" so the number may be higher