[12:51] <dgroos> Good Morning
[18:18] <Lns> Morning all!
[18:28] <alkisg> Good evening Lns
[18:28] <alkisg> Lns, I've been looking at this quide you wrote: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LockdownHomeDirs
[18:30] <Lns> hey alkisg
[18:30] <Lns> ok
[18:30] <alkisg> So you're putting teachers in the admin group?
[18:30] <alkisg> If they're in the admin group, so they can use sudo, can't they already access the files?
[18:32] <Lns> alkisg: where does it say teachers are in the admin group?
[18:32] <alkisg> (only teachers and/or system administrators/techs should be a member of  the "admin" group, as it is used for system administration purposes)
[18:32] <Lns> my setups have a 'teachers' group and a separate 'admin' group
[18:32] <alkisg> So, can teachers access user's files?
[18:33] <Lns> well
[18:33] <Lns> i guess i could elaborate since my setups are a bit more than just on that page now
[18:33] <Lns> you can choose for teachers to have access
[18:33] <Lns> See i wrote that before i got into ACLs
[18:34] <Lns> so i was just looking at group permissions
[18:34] <alkisg> Ah, you're using ACLs now?
[18:34] <Lns> yeah
[18:34] <Lns> they work pretty well for situations like that =)
[18:34] <Lns> i also genearally separate student homedirs from other teachers/admin staff
[18:34] <Lns> so i usually put students in /home/students
[18:34] <Lns> and then ACL that branch
[18:34] <alkisg> So you're using ACLs in some production school and you had no major complains? Maybe I should also look into those then :)
[18:35] <Lns> alkisg: oh man you haven't been using ACLs? they're awesome =)
[18:35] <Lns> no, no complaints, just praise
[18:35] <Lns> i made a video on acls on youtube
[18:35] <alkisg> Nah, in my own schools I never needed any permissions at all, but some fellow teachers are asking for them
[18:35] <Lns> gotcha
[18:35] <alkisg> Oooh link link?! :)
[18:35] <Lns> hahaha
[18:36] <Lns> should be linked in the ACL tutuorial on the ubuntu wiki at the top..
[18:36] <Lns> lemme find it
[18:36] <Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ACLSupport
[18:36] <Lns> youtube vid is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6piQXXHTmqk
[18:37] <alkisg> Merci!
[18:38] <alkisg> Ah, it's easy to listen to your video. I heard stgraber over skype once and I had a hard time understanding what he was saying.
[18:39] <Lns> hehe
[18:39] <Lns> yeah i used xvidcap for that video
[18:39] <Lns> very nice software
[18:39] <alkisg> Have you tried gtkrecordmydesktop?
[18:40] <Lns> i don't recall, sounds familiar
[18:42] <Lns> hmm looks nice!
[18:43] <Lns> i think xvidcap is better suited for me though because i run VMs in a window and i can select the window only to record instead of the whole desktop
[18:43] <Lns> so that way i can show me logging out/in, rebooting, etc.
[18:45] <alkisg> Hmmm I think gtkrecordmydesktop also supports that, but I haven't tried xvidcap yet. I will now :)
[18:46] <alkisg> (btw adduser is proposed instead of useradd)
[19:02] <dissident> hi everyone
[19:02] <alkisg> Hello
[19:14] <Ahmuck> how do you put students into /home/students?
[19:14] <Ahmuck> aren't all users created under /home?
[19:16] <Ahmuck> so users' are still created under /home, but are controlled by acl
[19:16] <Lns> Ahmuck: you can modify /etc/adduser.conf to make it default, specify home dir during user creation, or manually move already created ones and update /etc/passwd
[19:17] <Ahmuck> ah, so you are creating a sepearte directory, /home/students
[19:17] <Ahmuck> are users students unable to view each other's directories
[19:26] <dissident> does anyone have any ideas why an ltsp-client would get stuck at the Edubuntu boot splash
[19:26] <dissident> seems stuck in a loop
[19:33] <Lns> Ahmuck: my own students can't go into each others' dirs, no
[19:33] <Lns> dissident: have you gone through the troubleshooting steps?
[19:33] <Lns> dissident: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
[19:34] <dissident> thanks for that Lns
[19:37] <dissident> plymouth
[19:55] <dissident> Lns: working now thanks
[19:56] <dissident> Lns: are you running LTSP? can you perhaps tell me a bit about your setup?
[19:57] <Lns> dissident: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_SuccessStories#Logical_Networking_Solutions_-_Northern_California.2C_USA
[19:57] <dissident> ta
[20:02] <dissident> Lns: are you more involved in the infrastructure side of things, or the software (or rather, usage thereof) side of things
[20:02] <dissident> um, the education side i guess
[20:03] <Lns> dissident: I'm basically a sysadmin, not a coder - I run my business by installing and maintaining Linux/LTSP networks in schools.
[20:03] <dissident> Lns: k
[20:09] <alkisg> dissident: did you see any error messages after removing quiet/splash?
[20:09] <dissident> alkisg: strangely enough
[20:10] <dissident> i got a message about plymouth being killed
[20:10] <dissident> um, i hit enter and it booted
[20:10] <dissident> oO
[20:10] <dissident> so i think the update to the image made the difference
[20:10] <dissident> even though i'd previously done it
[20:10] <alkisg> Heh, well if it works.. :)
[20:10] <dissident> it does now hehe ta
[20:12] <dissident> okay, question for main (highvoltage helped put me on the right track a week or so ago) - only thing, downloading a mirror would just ahve taken too long hehe.
[20:13] <dissident> our funder came and gave the green flag for our Education centre today. I need to get this server back to the farm (200km from here) by Thursday, its currently at my house on an ADSL connection. I want to put as much useful softwaare onto the server before i return it (no internet at all on the farm the Lab is located at)
[20:14] <dissident> Thursday I want to be able to demo whats possible. I know my way around the regular KDE based educational packages, as well as a few of the non-kde oriented ones.
[20:14] <dissident> the primary goal of this lab is to narrow the digital divide to people from an impoverished rural community. at least 30% of the users will be functionally illiterate.
[20:15] <dissident> i was hoping that you guys could share some of the tools you're using (and maybe how you're using them) at your labs?
[20:15] <alkisg> dissident: you can pass "--download-only" to apt-get to retrieve packages without installing them.
[20:15] <mhall119> wow, sounds like a really worthy endeavor
[20:16] <alkisg> So e.g. if you think tuxpaint will be needed, but you're not sure, you can download it and install it locally afterwards, without any internet connection
[20:17] <mhall119> you can use Keryx to create Apt-CDs for various packages
[20:18] <dissident> oo, ta
[20:18] <dissident> the project would be great, but people need to see what linux can offer
[20:19] <dissident> what i'm really keen on knowing is which software packages are most commonly being used by the LTSP projects
[20:19] <dissident> as a point of departure
[20:20] <Lns> dissident: why not just burn Edubuntu CDs with the software on them to install later if you need to?
[20:21] <dissident> Lns: do you mean the add on CDs as specified on the website?
[20:21] <dissident> Lns: or do you mean with the specific software intended for the install?
[20:22] <Lns> dissident: the CD/DVD images
[20:22] <Lns> those contain all of the software, and you can install via CD/DVD later in apt
[20:22] <dissident> i used the edubuntu dvd
[20:22] <dissident> 10.04
[20:22] <dissident> and did the standard installation (with LTSP installation afterward)
[20:22] <Lns> ok
[20:22] <dissident> via the script on the desktop
[20:25]  * dissident hits the LTSP wiki
[20:29] <dissident> maybe i should rephrase... in your LTSP deployments, which are your top 5 most used / most effective/ software packages?
[20:30] <dissident> we'll be doing OpenOffice courses
[20:30] <dissident> running an "offline" wikipedia as a basic encyclopedia
[20:32] <Lns> dissident: mainly our students use Firefox, Open Office, a typing tutor, games.. younger students use things like GCompris (very good for learning computers)
[20:33] <dissident> Lns: k, thanks. I see these are installed by default
[20:33] <dissident> the -edu* packages
[20:33] <Lns> right
[20:33] <dissident> i'm assuming
[20:35] <Ahmuck> Lns: where r u located?
[20:35] <Ahmuck> scribus is a good package for ubuntu
[20:35] <Lns> Ahmuck: northern california
[20:36] <Ahmuck> however, it may not work well on ltsp, because of the imges
[20:36] <Ahmuck> lns, interesting.  i'd think n cali would have went the ms way
[20:36] <Lns> Ahmuck: they usually do. It's a struggle to get open source in around here - but people are starting to catch on like wildfire
[20:37] <Lns> specially since our local economy is in the crapper =p
[20:38] <alkisg> Here the economy is even worse; I wonder thought why the only stores that have people in them are the cafeterias... :D
[20:40] <Lns> alkisg: that's right you're in greece?
[20:45] <Lns> California is pretty close behind you as far as economic turmoil
[20:46] <dissident> hehe
[20:46] <dissident> no, here the government commits to open source
[20:46] <dissident> but then the dept. of education offer a laptop subsidy to teachers (but only if they run windows)
[20:47] <dissident> oO
[20:47] <Lns> nothing like vendor lock-in via charity
[20:47] <dissident> yup
[20:47] <Ahmuck> that's because the subsidy is coming from ms
[20:47] <Ahmuck> it's the same here
[20:48] <Ahmuck> if you get your computers and software for free, then you start looking at compatibility, and training issues
[20:48] <Lns> if MS wants to really be a charitable source for technology, why not offer the choice of OS installation?
[20:48] <dissident> purely out of curiosity
[20:48] <dissident> what do you think of Google's new OS?
[20:48] <alkisg> Here they gave about 120.000 netbooks to students, and fortunately we manage to convince them to be dual boot (edubuntu/windows)
[20:48] <dissident> supposed to be being released soon
[20:48] <dissident> rather, their vision for their OS
[20:49] <Lns> dissident: i wouldn't touch it until it's been out for a while
[20:49] <Lns> alkisg: that is great
[20:49] <dissident> ms gave the netbooks?
[20:49] <alkisg> Nope
[20:49] <dissident> k
[20:49] <alkisg> Mostly a european fund, and also 25% local funds
[20:49] <dissident> k
[20:50] <mhall119> Lns: the reason MS wants to be charitable is because it benefits them
[20:50] <Lns> mhall119: i know..i guess it was more of a rhetorical question
[20:50] <mhall119> it's not just MS either, that's why any corporate gives to charity
[20:50] <mhall119> it improves their "corporate image"
[20:50]  * dissident should probably hit up BP for a donation sometime soon
[20:51] <Lns> lol
[20:51] <mhall119> but they won't undermine their products to boost their image
[20:51] <mhall119> dissident: they're currently donating millions of gallons of oil to my shoreline, aren't they wonderful?
[20:52] <Lns> hopefully BP will become a charity to renewable energy after this is over
[20:52] <dissident> they're the best :-P
[20:52] <dissident> ja, hopefully
[20:53] <dissident> read something recently
[20:53] <mhall119> Lns: I think BP has already been heavily investing in alternative fuels
[20:53] <Lns> mhall119: that's good! they're smart
[20:53] <dissident> should probably follow it up :-P
[20:53] <mhall119> Lns: they are
[20:53] <mhall119> they wouldn't be multi-billion dollar a year companies if they weren't
[20:53] <Lns> i know cheveron has been doing solar powered gas stations out here a lot
[20:54] <Lns> kinda paradoxical, but none the less a good gesture ;)
[20:54] <mhall119> not really, solar is good for large stationary objects like stores
[20:54] <mhall119> not so good for small, mobile objects like cars
[20:54] <Ahmuck> google's os is cloud tech
[20:54] <Ahmuck> vaporware i hope
[20:54] <Lns> mhall119: true
[20:55]  * Lns wonders if any electric cars employ wind turbines in their bumpers to re-power batteries
[20:55] <dissident> Ahmuck: thats what i don't like about it
[20:56] <Ahmuck> seriously, i don't want my personal info on the cloud
[20:56] <dissident> exactly
[20:56] <dissident> yet, you average user is going to be conned into doing just that
[20:56] <dissident> because its "better", "easier" etc
[20:56] <Lns> cloud computing has good use cases
[20:57] <Lns> it's just not going to replace desktops and traditional server/client networks
[20:57] <dissident> agreed
[20:57] <mhall119> Lns: only if you properly define what "cloud computing means"
[20:57] <Lns> its probably best for 'casual users' who don't work a lot on a computer
[20:57] <dissident> i think for organizations its great
[20:58] <Lns> cloud computing is usually defined as a service provider hosting everything.
[20:58] <Lns> there are private clouds, but...i mean, really.
[20:58] <mhall119> Lns: you need a definition that's different from a VPS in some way
[21:00] <dissident> anyone here using schooltool?
[21:04] <Ahmuck> outside of ltsp is there really a good server/client platform for edu?
[21:05] <alkisg> Ahmuck: you mean like skolelinux?
[21:10] <Lns> Ahmuck: DRBL
[21:11] <Lns> i hear people talk about zero-clients and 4-to-1 stations here and there
[21:12] <Lns> but LTSP, in my research anyway, has been the best of those choices
[21:14]  * alkisg tried to use DRBL and had to reinstall Ubuntu afterwards :-/
[21:14] <Ahmuck> has used drbl
[21:15] <Ahmuck> have also heard of 1 machine, 4 clients
[21:15] <Ahmuck> but i'm not sure i'd use ltsp either
[21:59] <dissident> thanks for you inputs guys
[21:59]  * dissident has his work cut out for him
[21:59] <dissident> hehe
[21:59] <dissident> night
[21:59] <alkisg> Ahmuck: have you tried the LTSP fat client support in Lucid?
[22:01] <alkisg> It's completely different, it doesn't transfer screens over the network...
[23:13] <dgroos> alkisg: how come I can't find the 'install-LTSP' script on my desktop after install of edubuntu?
[23:13] <dgroos> hmmmm...
[23:14]  * alkisg has not tried to install ltsp from the edubuntu dvd yet...
[23:15] <dgroos> Is there some way documented somewhere?
[23:23] <dgroos> Would someone list the steps/commands for me?  I'll try it out, recording the details as it goes along and write them up on the ubuntu wiki.