[02:31] <riggs498> I have skolelinux installed on the main server. is there a way I can get edubuntu to see that server with openldap? none of the stations use thinclient to connect to the server. The workstation is configure and the lins back to the server.
[02:42] <riggs498> Does Edubuntu use ldap?
[03:14] <riggs498> Is there anyone that can help me?
[17:17] <Ahmuck> is musescore part of edubuntu?
[20:01] <Lns> Hi everyone
[20:02] <Lns> eww, chanserv welcome message is... intimidating. =p
[20:08] <alkisg> Why?
[20:08] <alkisg> Btw, is there a meeting today?
[20:09] <alkisg> highvoltage: ^^?
[20:12] <Lns> heh
[20:12] <Lns> alkisg: have you seen UNR / netbook-launcher UI?
[20:13] <alkisg> I've seen it, and I quickly removed it and installed the normal edition :D
[20:13] <Lns> alkisg: (re: welcome msg..just like seeing cameras in a department store..makes you feel...watched lol)
[20:13] <Lns> alkisg: haha!
[20:13] <Lns> But wouldn't you agree it could be a very simplified UI for children?
[20:13] <alkisg> I don't know, it makes me think that it's not a PC, it's just a mobile phone
[20:13] <dgroos> Hey! just got back--meeting right?
[20:14] <alkisg> Nope. My daughter, 9 years old then, didn't like it at all.
[20:14] <alkisg> She preferred the normal UI. I think that UI is for 60 y.o. people, not for kids.
[20:14] <Lns> alkisg: ok but its probably safe to say your daughter, at age 9, was also learning C++.. ;)
[20:14] <alkisg> Heh :)
[20:14] <Lns> dgroos: we haven't heard from highvoltage yet
[20:14] <alkisg> Nah, I try to keep my kids away from PCs... I'm not doing a very good job, but still, not C++. Just python :P
[20:15] <Lns> =p
[20:15] <Lns> I dunno, I think it's a beautiful way to present applications to kids/teachers. It's very simple, no menu-surfing, if it were modularized away from UNR I could see thin clients using it in schools (at least elementary schools)
[20:15] <Lns> For those who take 10 minutes to make sure their students are logging on with the right un/pw
[20:16] <Lns> it's hard to have them all navigate through menus and stuff..also, the "Favorites" section woudl be great for commonly used websites/applications
[20:16] <Lns> or directories
[20:16] <alkisg> Kids nowadays are very used to the standard windows interface, even from small ages. This new interface may be OK for small touch screens, but I wouldn't prefer it with a mouse.
[20:17] <alkisg> Directories are difficult, ok, but is that addressed by UNR?
[20:17] <alkisg> E.g. tuxpaint addresses this, it doesn't offer a standard save dialog
[20:19] <Lns> alkisg: the Favorites section is just like the other XDG menus (comes up at top) and is customizable for FF bookmarks, filesystem locations, and other stuff
[20:19] <Lns> And you're right about touch screens - imagine a thin client touch screen LCD.
[20:20] <Lns> Touch is "where things are going" and I think this kind of interface is going to integrate itself into desktops as well as notebooks/phones
[20:20] <alkisg> Well, gnome already has a favorites menu for locations. It works better than windows at that stage when we try to teach them about organizing their work.
[20:20] <alkisg> Touch is handy for *some* stuff. I wouldn't help *me* in my work though.
[20:20] <Lns> sure =) but "better than windows" isn't our primary goal is it?
[20:20] <Lns> alkisg: I'm not talking about you, i'm talking about young children ;)
[20:21] <alkisg> Sure. But young children might also be doing some of the things I do.
[20:21] <alkisg> I'm chatting now. My kids are also chatting in facebook. Why would they need a touch screen for that?
[20:21] <Lns> I dunno, I just excited at the potential of that type of interface. A lot of feedback I got from teachers was simply making the UI easier for kids to navigate
[20:22] <Lns> the apps would remain the same
[20:22] <Lns> obviously
[20:22] <alkisg> A touch screen would be nice to have for some activities, especially in very early ages (card matching etc).
[20:22] <Lns> alkisg: i'm simply talking about navigating the GUI, not having touch integrated into all the apps
[20:22] <Lns> mouse/touch combo
[20:22] <alkisg> Or in some games. Or in a restaurant. But I don't think it would affect most of my lessons...
[20:23] <alkisg> If you have to leave the mouse to touch the screen and vice versa, then this is a failed method
[20:23] <Lns> meh :)
[20:23] <Lns> I don't agree with that
[20:23] <Lns> they are both useful, just like you said, it's handy for *some* stuff
[20:24] <alkisg> It takes half a second to leave the mouse and touch the screen. It takes much less time to just move the mouse there.
[20:24] <Lns> and having the choice of using touch or the mouse would provide the best choice
[20:24] <alkisg> So, once I get in a touch screen enabled app, I shouldn't have to return to my mouse.
[20:24] <alkisg> I should be only touching the screen for as long as I use this app.
[20:24] <Lns> sure
[20:25] <Lns> would make sense for countless games for youngsters
[20:25] <alkisg> (except for some casual keyboard typing of course)
[20:25] <alkisg> Yes, games are a very good candidate. But as a teacher I don't care much about them ;)
[20:25] <Lns> my 21 month old son already tries to touch our LCD TV to do stuff on it...
[20:26] <Lns> it's a natural integration into technology - normal physical handling of real objects and touching a screen to manipulate things
[20:26] <Lns> but wouldn't you think that, as a teacher, you want the easiest method for launching and navigating an OS for kids?
[20:26] <alkisg> Sure. It'll be very good when apps are ready for that.
[20:27] <alkisg> But if OS navigation is touch-enabled, and the apps themselves aren't, I don't think it helps much
[20:28] <Lns> ok, but if you had the *choice* of using touch or not (obviously not many ppl have touch screen LCDs attached to their desktops..yet).. the end result in either case would be an easy interface to launch applications and navigate files
[20:29] <Lns> not only for kids, but if it were made to be easily customizable from the ground up, for many users, by teachers/etc (customizable themes, icons, categories).. that could seriously be a 'killer feature' of Edubuntu
[20:29] <Lns> it looks different than ubuntu and therefore people distinguish it more clearly and see a use case
[20:29] <alkisg> I believe the end result would be the same as working on a nintendo ds (except that our hands would tire more easily, as it's difficult to reach the screen all the time)
[20:30] <alkisg> So ok, it's a feature, but I don't see it as a big evolution for PCs
[20:30] <Lns> you don't think PCs are going to become more touch friendly in the future?
[20:31] <Lns> ok take this hypothetical example...organizing your photo collection by dragging/dropping. Much easier with 2 fingers!
[20:31] <alkisg> I think the capability will be there, but people will only use it in selected apps.
[20:31] <Lns> of course.
[20:31] <alkisg> The same as the new 3D screens.
[20:32] <Lns> I dunno, I feel compelled to take this UI and modularize it so it can be installed in not-just-netbook-OSes
[20:32] <dgroos> Have you seen the Croquet project?  It would provide a fascinating interface for both local files and external systems.
[20:32] <alkisg> I do hope I get to see a keyboard-less and mouse-less PC, where I'll be able to talk to it to do stuff. Until then, I don't think I'll switch my keyboard/mouse easily... :)
[20:33] <Lns> alkisg: not a 0 or 1 situation ;)
[20:33] <Lns> people said the same thing when the mouse was invented
[20:33] <Lns> and the car
[20:33] <Lns> "Get a horse!"
[20:33] <alkisg> The mouse has 2 dimentions. The keyboard doesn't.
[20:33] <alkisg> A touch screen has 2 dimentions. We already have that.
[20:34] <dgroos> it is kind of like a 3-d concept mapping software but is a way to navigate in a shared space across the internet with others.
[20:34] <dgroos> Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_Project
[20:34] <Lns> dgroos: wasn't that some Java-based Sun project?
[20:34] <dgroos> That would provide a real reason to enable another way of interfacing with the computer.
[20:35] <dgroos> No, it is squeek-based and was created by the some big open source names--check towards the bottom of the wikipedia page.
[20:39] <dgroos> I haven't paid it much attention in the last few years as I've been busy learning other stuff--looks like it has come of age and is now part of the open Cobalt project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Cobalt
[20:41] <dgroos> I really think that wisely scaffolded collaboration tools are going to be enabling a big change in what happens in science classes (and I'd guess in other disciplines) as well.
[20:41] <Lns> dgroos: that seems like a very radical change in how you interfact
[20:41] <Lns> interact*
[20:43] <dgroos> Yes, imagine going through some object on the screen and entering another view that is shared by another group of people--in real time and in 3-d.  That would be an interesting concept of chat room!
[20:47] <dgroos> Lns: Using an interface like this would provide new utility for a touch screen, I'd say.
[20:48] <Lns> sure
[20:48] <Lns> dgroos: what is this "object" you would speak of, though, that people would be interacting with? What's the benefit ?
[20:52] <dgroos> As I understand, one stands in a 3-d space, represented by an avatar.  There are 'objects' around one--like windows or screens-- these can be 2-d objects such as the example of the google analytics screen shown on the cobalt page.
[20:54] <dgroos> They can also be portals into another virtual world.  You can walk up to that object/portal, look through it into the other world, see others/object in that world.
[20:55] <dgroos> you can go through the object, enter the other world in a 3-d way and this could be another collaborative space with shared objects eg jpgs, videos, text etc.
[20:56] <Lns> hmmm..sounds like something that would probably catch on in another 5-10 years :)
[20:56] <dgroos> right :) another reason why I haven't been following it too closely.
[20:57] <Lns> I think that this type of interface would be more of what alkisg is talking about regarding requiring applications that support the type of interaction it provides
[20:57] <dgroos> But, it would make an awesome interface for concept mapping--being able to move about (such as swim) through a shared concept map would be inspiring!
[20:57] <Lns> seems kind of pointless to have a 3D space with a bunch of 2D apps
[20:58] <Lns> but i do see a lot of potential regarding apps that support that kind of stuff
[20:58] <Lns> and their integration with the OS UI
[20:58] <Lns> would make OS/applications much more integrated with each other
[20:59] <dgroos> Yes, it would be an interesting way to interact with taxonomies of knowledge.
[21:06] <Lns> so...no meeting i guess =)