| paultag | doctormo: heyya bud | 03:11 |
|---|---|---|
| doctormo | paultag: did you just get home? | 03:11 |
| paultag | doctormo: yessir | 03:11 |
| doctormo | paultag: So it did take an hour | 03:11 |
| paultag | haha, toldja! | 03:12 |
| paultag | doctormo: I had something I wanted to say to you, but i've forgotten | 03:12 |
| doctormo | I beat you even though I had to walk all the way down to Tealux again and then cycle home. | 03:12 |
| paultag | haha | 03:12 |
| paultag | doctormo: tealux rocks, btw | 03:12 |
| doctormo | paultag: The tea place I got to in SanFran was pretty awesome too. | 03:29 |
| paultag | doctormo: san fran is a bit of a ride, eh? | 03:29 |
| doctormo | Only a couple of weeks cycling. | 03:29 |
| doctormo | But what's half a year for good tea eh | 03:29 |
| paultag | aye :P | 03:29 |
| pleia2 | and you can stay on my couch | 03:31 |
| paultag | pleia2: funny you mention that | 03:32 |
| paultag | pleia2: I was trying to set up a ubuntu member couchsurfing app | 03:32 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 03:32 |
| paultag | pleia2: I think it would rock! | 03:32 |
| pleia2 | unfortunately I don't think I could actually play along, living next to moscone center I have enough couch-surfers without an app :) | 03:33 |
| paultag | aye :) | 03:33 |
| paultag | I was thinking for uds etc | 03:33 |
| pleia2 | if you have a big house... | 03:34 |
| paultag | pleia2: well it's not always a two way thing. You can use it to seek out places to crash without offering your house | 03:34 |
| paultag | pleia2: but I have not spent more then 10 minutes thinking about this :/ | 03:34 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 03:34 |
| pleia2 | it is fun living in a city which is a tourist destination and such a tech hub though | 03:35 |
| pleia2 | everyone ends up visiting eventually :) | 03:35 |
| paultag | for sure | 03:35 |
| pleia2 | will be meeting up with a woman from the italian loco in august who is out here for fun | 03:35 |
| paultag | oh? | 03:36 |
| paultag | <33333 Boston | 03:36 |
| pleia2 | boston is a nice city | 03:36 |
| paultag | gawddamn right | 03:36 |
| paultag | :) | 03:37 |
| doctormo | pleia2: I really liked San Fran, reminded me of Boston... in that oddly non-really-america sort of way. | 03:42 |
| doctormo | pleia2: Glad you had an Ubuntu hour | 03:43 |
| doctormo | Those things do rock | 03:43 |
| pleia2 | yeah, it was fun | 03:43 |
| doctormo | Today has been wild, passing on the SETC management to turk, grappling with some fishy stars with paul. | 03:45 |
| paultag | :D | 03:47 |
| paultag | those fishy stars are coming along quite well | 03:48 |
| doctormo | paultag: Nothing to pull yet | 03:55 |
| paultag | aye | 03:56 |
| dholbach | good morning | 06:51 |
| nigelb | morning dholbach :) | 06:54 |
| dholbach | hi nigelb | 06:56 |
| dpm | good morning everyone | 06:59 |
| dholbach | hola dpm | 06:59 |
| dpm | hey dholbach :) | 06:59 |
| dholbach | how are you all doing? | 06:59 |
| dpm | apart from sleepy, I'm doing fine :) | 07:00 |
| dholbach | same here :) | 07:00 |
| dholbach | more coffee | 07:00 |
| nigelb | haha, wake up dpm :) | 07:00 |
| dpm | hey, morning nigelb :) | 07:01 |
| dholbach | nigelb: man, you have an advantage, it's 11:30 where you are! | 07:01 |
| dholbach | nigelb: almost time for lunch | 07:01 |
| maco | mm lunch | 07:01 |
| maco | i want lunch...er midnight meal... whatever the meal after dinner is called :) | 07:02 |
| * nigelb is almost ready for lucnh | 07:02 | |
| nigelb | *lunch | 07:02 |
| vish | munch? ;) | 07:02 |
| dholbach | yeah, I totally wouldn't mind getting some good Indian food now, even if it's 8:00 over here :) | 07:02 |
| nigelb | vish: hhahah | 07:02 |
| vish | in India we have a candy bar named Munch too :) | 07:03 |
| nigelb | maco: maybe breakfast? :D | 07:04 |
| * nigelb runs | 07:04 | |
| maco | ooh yes indian food sounds tasty | 07:04 |
| maco | nigelb: can you ftp me a masala dosa? | 07:04 |
| vish | lol | 07:04 |
| maco | and maybe some aloo saag? | 07:04 |
| nigelb | maco: fedex? | 07:04 |
| nigelb | all this food talk is making me hungry, perhaps i'll go for an early lunch | 07:06 |
| dholbach | enjoy it | 07:13 |
| * nigelb jumps with joy => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKbTDkA7gAU | 07:36 | |
| nigelb | unity totally rocks :) | 07:44 |
| dholbach | next time I reboot, I'll try it out again :) | 07:48 |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| vish | dholbach: what's the presenter's name , i forgot , he was at the UDS.. iirc he is from OEM team | 08:28 |
| dholbach | Jerone Young | 08:29 |
| vish | ah right, thansk :) | 08:29 |
| vish | thanks* | 08:29 |
| vish | hehe , the reporter freaked out at the mention of "Hacker", "start hacking" ;p | 08:30 |
| nigelb | hehe | 08:31 |
| dholbach | hola ara | 08:32 |
| ara | morning dholbach, all | 08:32 |
| nigelb | morning ara :) | 08:32 |
| ara | morning nigelb | 08:38 |
| dholbach | Daviey, james_w: if you could have a look at dylan's merge proposal for harvest too, I'd appreciate it | 10:15 |
| dholbach | I'll spend a bit more time on it | 10:15 |
| james_w | yeah, I'll take a look | 10:15 |
| dholbach | but it's quite big and it'd be nice to see if I'm barking at the wrong tree | 10:16 |
| dholbach | hola randa_ | 10:17 |
| Daviey | dholbach: Yep.. i snowed for the next few hours.. but after that, happy to | 10:25 |
| dholbach | sure, take it easy :) | 10:26 |
| * dholbach hugs Daviey | 10:26 | |
| * dholbach hugs james_w too | 10:26 | |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| james_w | dholbach: you may want to actually vote "Needs Fixing" | 11:45 |
| dholbach | james_w: yep, still not done with the review :-) | 11:46 |
| * dholbach hugs james_w | 11:46 | |
| james_w | ah | 11:47 |
| james_w | I agree with your comments btw | 11:47 |
| dholbach | that's good to know | 11:47 |
| dholbach | james_w: did you mean to "Approve"? | 11:51 |
| james_w | yeah | 11:51 |
| james_w | I'm happy not to review it a second time, but you may wish to | 11:52 |
| dholbach | ok, I see | 11:52 |
| czajkowski | Aloha | 12:51 |
| * nigelb waves to czajkowski | 12:57 | |
| nigelb | czajkowski: its been a few days since I've seen you around :) | 12:57 |
| czajkowski | nigelb: hey hows things | 12:57 |
| nigelb | czajkowski: things are rocking! How about you? | 12:58 |
| czajkowski | nigelb: pretty good if you use twitter/identi.ca and search #locoteams you'll see teams using the new tag | 12:59 |
| czajkowski | :) | 12:59 |
| nigelb | czajkowski: my laptop's in the shop. I'm like a butterfly withou wings | 12:59 |
| nigelb | ok, that might be an extreme example ;) | 12:59 |
| paultag | nigelb: awww, my cute butterfly | 13:00 |
| nigelb | paultag: heh | 13:01 |
| paultag | nigelb: :3 | 13:02 |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| qense | good afternoon | 13:43 |
| dholbach | james_w: you wanted to give me a few more daily build recipe examples :-D | 14:00 |
| james_w | I know | 14:00 |
| jcastro | popey: around? | 14:14 |
| popey | ya | 14:14 |
| jcastro | http://twitter.com/castrojo/status/16813350244 | 14:14 |
| jcastro | can I get some love there? | 14:14 |
| popey | lococast you say? o_O | 14:18 |
| popey | boredandblogging [~boredandb@ubuntu/member/boredandblogging] has quit [Quit: DISGUSTED] | 14:19 |
| jcastro | hah | 14:24 |
| qense | jcastro: I tried to get Banshee SoundMenu support rolling, but while I was doing so it turned out that Bertrand Lorentz was already rocking it, so I didn't have to do much. He even has already got the libindicate registration part, so we now need to wait for the MPRIS extension to stabilise and we're set to package it for Maverick! | 14:28 |
| qense | jcastro: But I think there are already enough people on that. If not, I'll look after it, but I have full confidence I'm redundant. | 14:29 |
| jcastro | qense: no worries, they sorted all that out at UDS | 14:29 |
| jcastro | qense: however ... | 14:29 |
| qense | yeah? | 14:30 |
| jcastro | qense: you might want to see if lamalex needs help getting the new hw support branch in shape and in maverick | 14:30 |
| qense | hw? | 14:30 |
| qense | as in hardware? | 14:30 |
| jcastro | (they're porting it to gio/gvfs/gpod/whatever) | 14:30 |
| jcastro | the music player support | 14:30 |
| qense | Ah, that stuff. | 14:30 |
| jcastro | so it needs to be de-HALed, which is in a branch, and alex is mushing it all together so that UNE can ship with it | 14:30 |
| qense | Ok, I'll see if I can provide some help there. | 14:31 |
| * jcastro nods | 14:31 | |
| qense | Yay! pitti can rejoice, HAL will finally die. | 14:31 |
| jcastro | not really | 14:31 |
| jcastro | KDE still uses it | 14:31 |
| qense | aww | 14:31 |
| jcastro | https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana-dev/msg00005.html | 14:31 |
| jcastro | hahah | 14:31 |
| popey | jcastro: am I wrong to think 'lococast, that sounds like it represents locos' | 14:31 |
| jcastro | DOOM | 14:31 |
| popey | much like "lugradio" and "ubuntu podcast" | 14:31 |
| jcastro | popey: actually the site doesn't mention ubuntu really | 14:32 |
| qense | jcastro: That sounds quite horrible. :P | 14:32 |
| jcastro | popey: it's very much beta | 14:32 |
| jcastro | when they introduced themselves they were like "we're from the ubuntu loco" | 14:32 |
| popey | does the show? | 14:32 |
| jcastro | and I was like "dude, you guys need to say which one" | 14:32 |
| popey | yeah :) | 14:32 |
| jcastro | heh ok I'll pass that along | 14:32 |
| popey | tbh bit late now they have a name and domain :) | 14:33 |
| jcastro | well you can say something about it on the page | 14:34 |
| popey | nah, I'll just whinge at you in here :) | 14:34 |
| jcastro | heh | 14:36 |
| jcastro | I wish more locos would do podcasts | 14:37 |
| popey | ditto | 14:37 |
| jcastro | you get a totally different thing | 14:37 |
| popey | we have denmark, mexico, uk... | 14:37 |
| jcastro | this show is totally different from uupc | 14:37 |
| popey | how many others? | 14:37 |
| popey | good! | 14:37 |
| popey | dont want them stealing our audience :) | 14:37 |
| doctormo | what audience? | 14:37 |
| popey | 1090131 downloads so far of uupc | 14:38 |
| popey | ^ that one | 14:38 |
| nigelb | popey: we'll never abandon UUPC :) | 14:39 |
| nigelb | popey: sad to see the response sil got on identi.ca :/ | 15:06 |
| popey | meh | 15:06 |
| popey | which means "I agree" but I refuse to consume any more brain cycles with it | 15:07 |
| nigelb | I like identi.ca but sadly not everyone there are friendly :( | 15:07 |
| popey | sorry if that came across badly | 15:07 |
| nigelb | nah, I understand exactly what you mean | 15:07 |
| nigelb | I've been hit with some nasty stuff too | 15:07 |
| nigelb | lot of ubuntu hate for being good, for being popular, for everything :/ | 15:08 |
| akgraner | nigelb, haters make you famous :-) (or so my daughter tells me all the time) | 15:10 |
| nigelb | akgraner: hehe, yeah | 15:10 |
| paultag | hell yeah akgraner :) | 15:10 |
| nigelb | I've come across at least 3 people talking about ubuntu when I least expected them too | 15:10 |
| paultag | haters gana hate, as the youth of today say | 15:10 |
| czajkowski | paultag: you are the youth! | 15:11 |
| nigelb | (a) A random person on flickr whose picture I used and I send a courtesy mail (b) the blog of a traveller guy I know | 15:11 |
| paultag | czajkowski: ;) | 15:11 |
| * czajkowski grabs her walking stick and pokes paultag | 15:11 | |
| paultag | GET OFF MY LAWN! | 15:11 |
| akgraner | paultag, haha | 15:11 |
| paultag | nigelb: just say you do Debian work, that will shut them up. | 15:12 |
| dholbach | czajkowski: haha | 15:12 |
| nigelb | paultag: no, they were good comments | 15:12 |
| nigelb | paultag: the hating come from fedora folks mostly for me | 15:12 |
| paultag | nigelb: I have had so many people act all know-all to me "Oh I use Debian" and wait for me to be impressed. I ask them what WM they use, and they always always use fluxbox. Douches use flux. So I tell them that I maintain it in Debian and they shut up. | 15:13 |
| nigelb | (since they follow me and I spam them) | 15:13 |
| paultag | nigelb: meh :P | 15:13 |
| nigelb | paultag: haha, that is an awesome retort! | 15:13 |
| * nigelb has never used fluxbox though | 15:13 | |
| paultag | nigelb: it's happened like 3 or 4 times | 15:13 |
| paultag | nigelb: Oh but *I* use Debian, not Ubuntu, because *I* like configuring things myself | 15:14 |
| nigelb | paultag: I usually point out rhythmbox changelog from synaptic when people try to act smart about know-it-all linux | 15:14 |
| paultag | haha | 15:14 |
| * nigelb has one changelog entry | 15:14 | |
| paultag | :) | 15:14 |
| nigelb | When is next UUPC episode? | 15:18 |
| popey | thursday | 15:19 |
| nigelb | tomorrow \o/ :) | 15:19 |
| nigelb | Its fun to listen to something interesting at work :) | 15:19 |
| popey | :) | 15:21 |
| popey | we have two interviews, one with Seif Lotfy and one with Benjamin Humphrey | 15:22 |
| nigelb | What degree of intoxication? | 15:22 |
| === ara_ is now known as ara | ||
| === ara is now known as Guest95569 | ||
| popey | nigelb: hah, Benjamin was interviewed early in the day, Seif we were both a bit tiddly... | 15:46 |
| popey | .. so tiddly neither of us could pronounce his name! | 15:46 |
| dholbach | hey jono | 15:50 |
| dholbach | brb | 15:50 |
| jono | hey dholbach | 15:52 |
| === Guest95569 is now known as ara | ||
| dholbach | jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/WorkingWithPatches | 15:56 |
| jcastro | http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-community-ubuntu-10.10.html | 15:57 |
| jono | dholbach, jcastro, dpm gentlemen, I am logging in now | 16:00 |
| jcastro | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/Handout | 16:01 |
| dholbach | jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/Handout?action=diff&rev2=4&rev1=3 | 16:04 |
| doctormo | jcastro: Are you going to do some production work on that when the wiki is filled? | 16:40 |
| jcastro | ? | 16:40 |
| doctormo | jcastro: Will you be designing and then printing the information into something physical to hand out at UDS-N? | 16:47 |
| jcastro | we always do that | 16:48 |
| jcastro | and they're posted in each room | 16:48 |
| doctormo | jcastro: Ah this would be the little bit of paper with useful stuff on it. | 16:49 |
| jcastro | yeah, the one no one reads. :) | 16:49 |
| doctormo | I didn't make the connection between that and this. | 16:50 |
| doctormo | jcastro: Let me know if you want some production put into it to make it a more attractive read. | 16:50 |
| * dholbach calls it a day - take care guys, see you tomorrow! :) | 16:52 | |
| popey | oh dear, usa through | 16:52 |
| popey | i mean, well done :) | 16:52 |
| dpm | ok, I need to run as well, see you all tomorrow! | 16:52 |
| jcastro | popey: I must say since barcelona I have come to appreciate football | 16:53 |
| popey | :) | 16:53 |
| popey | good man calling it football and not soccer :D | 16:53 |
| czajkowski | they are the extreme alright | 16:53 |
| jcastro | whatever. | 16:53 |
| czajkowski | paultag: we have soccer and football here :) | 16:53 |
| paultag | I play footie! | 16:54 |
| paultag | BAYERN MUNCHEN! | 16:55 |
| jussi | interesting, bot england and USA got through... | 16:59 |
| paultag | just saw that goal | 16:59 |
| jcastro | popey: any idea what's up with this? https://twitter.com/humphreybc/statuses/16860083846 | 17:18 |
| qense | jcastro: <http://guadec.org/index.php/guadec/2010/schedConf/opendesktopday> just got updated if you need more information regarding The GNOME Open Desktop Day. | 19:00 |
| jcastro | I saw your tweet! | 19:00 |
| qense | yay! | 19:00 |
| qense | Someone reads my tweets! | 19:00 |
| qense | You do know that the Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations is one of the sponsors? | 19:01 |
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| jcastro | qense: no | 19:17 |
| jcastro | (sorry I stepped out for a sec) | 19:17 |
| qense | Not sure how important that is, but it does feel a bit like the government is interested. | 19:19 |
| jcastro | <--- out for an appointment, bbi 60m | 19:24 |
| qense | have fun! | 19:24 |
| popey | jcastro: i dont know really | 19:32 |
| popey | jcastro: dunno which community he means | 19:32 |
| qense | Argh. | 20:10 |
| qense | You know the people that complain on OMG! Ubuntu and on the mailing lists that we are all stupid and too Mac like, or too little like Mac, or not free, or stupid and that there are divides and rows everywhere? Apparently that kind of people make up half the Ubuntu NL community. | 20:11 |
| qense | Argh. | 20:11 |
| qense | Why does everything have to end in a row? | 20:11 |
| qense | and everytime a row happens on the forums someone comes along and says: "See! The team is bursting apart! Everything is going wrong!" | 20:12 |
| qense | Our whole Community Council has quit at once because they couldn't take it any longer. | 20:14 |
| * vish scratches head o.0 | 20:14 | |
| paultag | That violates the LCoC, I don't think they would just quit | 20:15 |
| paultag | when was that qense | 20:15 |
| * pleia2 hugs vish | 20:15 | |
| pleia2 | err | 20:15 |
| * pleia2 hugs qense! | 20:15 | |
| qense | I mean, it's not like the LoCo is full of bad people, it's just that the bad people are so vocal. | 20:15 |
| pleia2 | but sure, vish too! :) | 20:15 |
| vish | pleia2: :( | 20:15 |
| vish | pleia2: yay! :) | 20:15 |
| qense | pleia2: Thank you for your consolation. | 20:15 |
| qense | :) | 20:15 |
| qense | paultag: I think yesterday or today | 20:15 |
| qense | yesterday evening | 20:15 |
| paultag | qense: the community council quit today? | 20:15 |
| qense | ours | 20:15 |
| paultag | pleia2: what is this? | 20:15 |
| qense | the Ubuntu NL Comunity Council. | 20:16 |
| paultag | qense: Oh, ahha | 20:16 |
| qense | :P | 20:16 |
| paultag | qense: what's going on in the interm? | 20:16 |
| vish | qense: they quit over the OMG comments? | 20:16 |
| qense | vish: No, because of the behaviour of the same kind of people that also makes those stupid comments. | 20:17 |
| paultag | qense: what's going on in the interm? | 20:17 |
| qense | Not OMG!Ubuntu, most of the Ubuntu NL community probably doesn't know it. | 20:17 |
| vish | ah , ok | 20:17 |
| qense | paultag: We probably will have no Community Council now. | 20:17 |
| paultag | qense: is there a loco issue? | 20:17 |
| vish | qense to the rescue! i vote qense as new leader :D | 20:18 |
| paultag | qense: leadership, that is | 20:18 |
| qense | vish: That would end in a horrible revolt. | 20:18 |
| vish | hehe | 20:18 |
| qense | paultag: We had a leader, but he quit because people were suspicious of him (afraid he would abuse his power, some said he was already doing it) and now we have none. | 20:18 |
| paultag | qense: could you please email the loco council, it's starting to sound like we have to step in... | 20:19 |
| qense | paultag: I'm working with someone else who was involved quite early to open up the team and reorganise everything a bit to get some things out of the forum (forums are really bad for proper discussions, it seems) and make the line between Ubuntu NL Team members and community members thinner. | 20:19 |
| qense | At the moment there are team people who discuss everything behind closed doors. | 20:20 |
| qense | All our discussion happens in private forums. | 20:20 |
| qense | And there is the community, which can only complain. | 20:20 |
| paultag | qense: OK. I'm still worried -- could you please CC the council on emails that start to resolve this? loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com <-- I'm just looking out for you guys. We're here to help. | 20:20 |
| qense | Every once in a while someone from the team quits because (s)he can't stand the whining and verbal abuse anymore. | 20:20 |
| paultag | qense: might want to enforce the CoC on members. | 20:21 |
| qense | paultag: That would be outrageous! Abuse of power! Censorship! | 20:21 |
| qense | paultag: I'll mail the mailing list an overview of the situation and keep you up to date. | 20:21 |
| vish | qense: why are the members abusing the leaders? for decisions made in the OS or for Loco decisions? | 20:21 |
| paultag | thanks qense, you rock | 20:21 |
| qense | paultag: thanks :) | 20:21 |
| qense | vish: Because of a lack of trust and because they think they know better. | 20:22 |
| vish | :s | 20:22 |
| qense | nothing technical, the whole communtiy is virtually unaware of everything that happens in the international community | 20:22 |
| qense | Which is what I was supposed to fix. | 20:22 |
| qense | but first we need to get the team workable again | 20:22 |
| qense | One of the moderators/team members quit because of a fuss started by the moderator posting a thread in the Offered part of the forum offering windows software. | 20:23 |
| qense | I mean, what are we talking about here? :S | 20:23 |
| qense | Actually, we've had two leaders, but the second team leader quit quickly as well. | 20:24 |
| * paultag pluggs ears | 20:27 | |
| paultag | not something I want to hear! | 20:27 |
| paultag | </3 | 20:28 |
| czajkowski | qense: if you need help, just ask us | 20:30 |
| qense | czajkowski: I'm writing a summary for the council right now to get you up to date. | 20:30 |
| qense | We're working in the LoCo on resolving the issues, but I fear the lack of faith in very active and contributive team members by the community will be a huge problem. | 20:31 |
| paultag | czajkowski: I sent backlogs to the ML, btw | 20:31 |
| paultag | czajkowski: just fyi :) | 20:32 |
| czajkowski | qense: grand job just poke me when mailed and I'll moderate the mail | 20:35 |
| czajkowski | paultag: cheers | 20:35 |
| qense | czajkowski: will do! | 20:36 |
| qense | czajkowski: Sent | 21:03 |
| qense | czajkowski: it has become quite a long, terse mail, but I just had a lot of things to tell and I'm tired. Those two things combined are not good for my English. | 21:03 |
| paultag | qense: :) | 21:04 |
| qense | I'm off now, see you all tomorrow! | 21:04 |
| czajkowski | done | 21:15 |
| jono | Pendulum, highvoltage what is the latest on merging in the chapters by Alpha 2 - the Alpha 2 deadline is Thurs next week | 22:22 |
| * jcastro reads the backscroll | 22:37 | |
| jcastro | yikes | 22:38 |
| jcastro | greg-g: notes to selves, no councils for our loco! | 22:38 |
| paultag | jcastro: :/ | 22:38 |
| jono_ | jcastro, ping | 23:11 |
| jono_ | I just mailed you re. UDS content | 23:11 |
| jcastro | jono_: looking | 23:12 |
| jono_ | cheers | 23:12 |
| jcastro | cool | 23:12 |
| jcastro | I can rock this | 23:12 |
| jono_ | jcastro, oh and also add Travel | 23:12 |
| jcastro | well, the upstream page | 23:12 |
| jcastro | I can rock harder | 23:12 |
| jono_ | but there won't be much there yet as we don;t have the venue confirmed | 23:12 |
| jono_ | good man | 23:12 |
| jono_ | thanks! | 23:12 |
| jono_ | for inspiration see the developer.u.c site | 23:12 |
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