[11:18] <Joit> hi where can i make a suggestion about the install from the live cd / blackscreen
[11:18] <cjwatson> stop asking where, and just spit it out :-)
[11:19] <Joit>  :p
[11:19] <Joit> i add at the recover mode at the linux line nomodeset, and it fixed it, to go through all screens
[11:20] <Joit> just, as is pick from the menu dpkg it removed the line again, and i had to put it new in, but then i came to kde, and i could install nvidia driver from the net
[11:20] <Joit> and beside, it fixed some broken pckage, what seems are at the cd
[11:20] <cjwatson> um, is this a maverick daily build?
[11:20] <cjwatson> released images shouldn't have any broken packages
[11:21] <Joit> no, ubuntu 10.4
[11:21] <cjwatson> then there is some deeper problem, and you should just file a bug with full logs and explain exactly what you were doing
[11:21] <Joit> well i did dload it couple times, but few files still had allways an error
[11:21] <cjwatson> did you check the image checksums, and have you cleaned your CD drive?
[11:21] <Joit> at last it worked, to install it over the live cd
[11:22] <Joit> well i burned it with 3 different burners, but its allwas the sae file
[11:22] <cjwatson> did you check the image checksums?
[11:22] <Joit> and did dload the iso few times also
[11:22] <cjwatson> we don't release images with broken files, ever
[11:22] <Joit> i did not check them really, no
[11:22] <cjwatson> what exactly is the error message?
[11:22] <cjwatson> the one that leads you to believe that there are broken packages on the CD
[11:23] <Joit> when i check the cd for errors it says can not be readed
[11:23] <cjwatson> what exactly is the error message?
[11:23] <cjwatson> please don't paraphrase it :)
[11:23] <Joit> well, what you expect from my grey cells :p
[11:24] <Joit> i will check it, and put the cd in on the other pc
[11:25] <cjwatson> if I see the exact error message, copied exactly, then I can probably say whether it's a physical hardware problem or a software problem
[11:25] <Joit> mm wait, that was after install
[11:25] <Joit> i did install it with the live cd
[11:26] <Joit> after it was installed, i figured it out, how to boot with nomodeset, and get he screen with this optinos for continue normal boot dpkg check and few others
[11:26] <Joit> i did run dpkg and it gaves me this message, looking for broken pakages
[11:27] <Joit> and it did start dloading 170 mb
[11:27] <cjwatson> EXACT
[11:27] <Joit> but i have no log for that
[11:27] <cjwatson> sorry to shout but you keep paraphrasing things
[11:27] <Joit> lol
[11:27] <cjwatson> I just want a copy of the error message you're seeing
[11:27] <cjwatson> seriously, it's so much quicker
[11:28] <cjwatson> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[11:28] <cjwatson> if you have to go through recovery mode after installation, then something has gone wrong during installation and it would be easier to just fix that
[11:28] <cjwatson> so, I need the full installation log to find out what
[11:28] <cjwatson> you should find it in /var/log/installer/syslog
[11:29] <Joit> i think more, that it did not have the right driver for the nvidia, its from 6xx serie
[11:30] <Joit> but my point is actually not the broken packages, but for the recover mode the parameter nomodeset would be better
[11:34] <cjwatson> I don't think that's true across the board, sadly
[11:35] <cjwatson> it will make some hardware work better and other hardware work much worse
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's not something we can apply everywhere - if it were then it could just be the default
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's awkward
[11:35] <Joit> but for the first install it is soemthing neutral isnt it
[11:35] <cjwatson> I would not say so
[11:36] <cjwatson> we're getting to the point where modesetting is in general much better tested and much more reliable, with a few exceptions such as the one you appear to be running into
[11:36] <Joit> but anyhow it bothers me, that actually most cards has a vesa mode, what is there since begiinning, and the most should work with it
[11:37] <cjwatson> and I think the tradeoff now is that people with your kinds of problems should be reporting bugs to get modesetting fixed, rather than campaigning to have modesetting switched off in some situations
[11:37] <cjwatson> nomodeset is there as an emergency escape hatch for people with problems, but it isn't a permanent situations
[11:37] <cjwatson> situation
[11:37] <cjwatson> err.  I mean "solution"
[11:38] <Joit> well grub gives a hard time also to keep it in, i tried to add the line, but it seems he did ignore it
[11:38] <Joit> just worked with a wooden mallet
[11:39] <Joit> ok finnished now, i did pick the option check cd for errors, it ended and only pop up errors found in 13 files
[11:39] <Joit> this was the live kbuntu cd
[11:39] <Joit> 10.4
[11:40] <Joit> press any key to reboot...
[11:40] <cjwatson> what errors?
[11:40] <Joit> it did not say more then this line
[11:40] <cjwatson> can I have the installation log, please?
[11:41] <Joit> that is what i got when i boot from the live cd, and choose check cd/dvd
[11:41] <Joit> does it save it that way?
[11:42] <cjwatson> ah, no
[11:42] <cjwatson> so if that shows errors, it's really not worth attempting an installation
[11:42] <cjwatson> we'd force everyone through that check by default except that it's sloww
[11:43] <cjwatson> you need to figure out why the check fails - the one thing I can say is that it's certainly not a problem with the master ISO image; even if it had got through QA like that, we'd have heard more about it by more
[11:43] <cjwatson> by now
[11:44] <cjwatson> so either you have a network problem that means that the download persistently gets corrupted for you, or you have a bad burner, or the reader in the computer you're trying to use is bad, or the actual disk is broken somehow, or (rarely) there's a bug in the kernel that means it fails to read from your CD controller
[11:44] <Joit> i dont know, really, i did dload the iso's few times from different mirrors, did burn them with different burner, but allwas get a error at some certain files.
[11:45] <cjwatson> I understand, but that is where the problem lies
[11:45] <Joit> when this would happen at normal copying files at my pc, i would say, the source is bad
[11:45] <Joit> btw, i checked the syslog, it is emtpy
[11:46] <Joit> at last kubuntu runs now by me, after i did get the right drivers from the net and it fixed the files over dpkg
[11:46] <Joit> and back to grub, seems vers2 is not really better at adding lines during the boot
[11:47] <Joit> anyhow, it seems it cant keep it right now
[11:47] <cjwatson> just add them to the right lines in /etc/default/grub and run update-grub
[11:47] <cjwatson> there's a big comment at the top of /boot/grub/grub.cfg telling you what to do
[11:48] <Joit> well, when i have the problem with the blackscreen , i cant add anything, becuase i dont have access to this files
[11:48] <ogra> on a sidenote there are MD5SUM files on the download server, did you check your iso against them ?
[11:49] <Joit> no i did not, md5sum is a terminal prog, and i tried first to dload the files freh, or burn them
[11:51] <ogra> well, that should be the first checkpoint if the selftest fails
[11:51] <ogra> checking the iso is ok
[11:52] <ogra> if that is the case, its likely that your media is broken or you burned to fast, burning at slower speed might help
[11:52] <Joit> well, when i dload a iso, i think, they should been checked from the one, wo upload them
[11:52] <ogra> they are
[11:53] <Joit> i did burn them also slowly, 8x, and with infrarecorder, thats a program, what they suggest at the ubuntu page
[11:53] <ogra> which is why the md5sum files are provided, but that doesnt help if your iso gets corrupted on download
[11:53] <cjwatson> adding kernel arguments during boot should be straightforward - they go on the end of the 'linux' line
[11:53] <cjwatson> you can 'cat /proc/cmdline' after boot to check that they took
[11:54] <Joit> well i use a free download manager, and i never get a corrpted file with it
[11:54] <Joit> so it guess it must be the source
[11:54] <cjwatson> the source is correct
[11:54] <cjwatson> honestly, I understand why you're saying this, but we would know :-)
[11:55] <Joit> and few different sources, burned with different burners, allways the same file what is corrumpted, what would be there logical?
[11:55] <Joit> i will see, what i can do with md5sum
[11:55] <ogra> right, start with that
[11:56] <Joit> well, actually nm, i have it installed, and now knopw, how i can do it again, if, and therefor i dont bother much more with it
[11:57] <cjwatson> by way of showing good faith, I'm re-checking the Kubuntu 10.04 desktop image now
[11:57] <Joit> and this blackscreen issue is often at this Version, its not only me
[11:57] <Joit> ty i appreceatie it :P then i dont feel alone
[11:57] <cjwatson> it checks out with zero errors here
[11:57] <cjwatson> (under emulation, which is why it was quick)
[11:57] <cjwatson> so the ISO image on releases.ubuntu.com is definitely fine
[12:01] <ogra> cjwatson, btw, looking at the ton of bugs we get from mis-edited /etc/default/grub files i was wondering if grub shouldnt ship something like visudo at some point :)
[12:01] <ogra> "vigrub" :)
[12:03] <Joit> ok the checksum for ubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso do match
[12:03] <ogra> probably a worthy spec for M+1
[12:03] <Joit> the file is right on my pc
[12:03] <Joit> and it seems more like, there are bad files on the cd, and the checksum is made with them
[12:04] <Joit> i doubt, that my burner produce the error
[12:04] <ogra> well, its either your media or the burning that breaks them
[12:04] <Joit> or, my 3 burner
[12:04] <Joit> well 3 different burner, allways the same file ? that is ridicoulus, sorry
[12:05] <ogra> well, cjwatson just checked the iso again above ... the content of the iso is ok, your md5sum matches the one on the server so the only way it can break is while transferring it to or from the media
[12:06] <Joit> cjwatson where did you get yours from
[12:06] <Joit> and well, another idea, that we have differnt hardware, and the errors are at the files for my exotic
[12:07] <ogra> unlikely that will affect an md5sum check on the disk
[12:07] <ogra> unless your CD reader is bad or something
[12:07] <Joit> even when it is not really exotic, its a hp t3000 with an asus a8zmn-la board with nvidia on board
[12:08] <cjwatson> Joit: http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/10.04/kubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
[12:09] <cjwatson> that is the canonical, official copy
[12:10] <cjwatson> its md5sum is 0ef722fd6b348e9dcf03812d071d68ba, matching the one on the central build machine (which I have access to, since I co-administer it)
[12:10] <Joit> at last, i could try to burn the iso as iso on a cd, and do there the md5check again
[12:10] <Joit> hm mine is different
[12:11] <cjwatson> wait, you said Ubuntu 10.04?  is it Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[12:11] <cjwatson> sorry then, you confused me by mentioning KDE above
[12:11] <Joit> its the one from from ubuntu
[12:12] <ogra> you said kubuntu initially
[12:12] <Joit> d044a2a0c8103fc3e5b7e18b0f7de1c8
[12:12] <Joit>  ubuntu-10.04-desktop-i386.iso
 this was the live kbuntu cd
 10.4
[12:12] <Joit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
[12:12] <cjwatson> d044a2a0c8103fc3e5b7e18b0f7de1c8 is correct
[12:12] <ogra> hmm, no you said kbuntu :)
[12:12] <Joit> yes, and that is what i got
[12:12] <cjwatson> therefore, it is not a download problem
[12:13] <Joit> yes, that is, what i did install
[12:13] <Joit> but i did now the check with the ubuntu cd
[12:13] <cjwatson> all files on that image check out correctly here
[12:13] <cjwatson> it is not a problem with the source image
[12:13] <Joit> i think not the image is the problem, but the config files there
[12:13] <cjwatson> you are wrong
[12:13] <cjwatson> I'm sorry but it is as simple as that
[12:14] <cjwatson> we've spent lots of time going over this and ruling that out
[12:14] <cjwatson> so please let's not waste any more time on that
[12:14] <cjwatson> the problem is either (a) burner (though you seem to have mostly ruled that out) (b) reader (c) kernel
[12:14] <Joit> well, as i said, my point was about the blackscreens, this broken files was at last more an sie effect
[12:14] <cjwatson> oh or (d) media
[12:15]  * ogra votes for d
[12:15] <cjwatson> it's not worth investigating problems with a broken installation CD
[12:15] <Joit> cjwatson well you did not proof me, that my burner mess it up
[12:15] <ogra> he did
[12:15] <cjwatson> Joit: no, and I didn't intend to - there are still multiple possibilities
[12:15] <cjwatson> ogra: please don't put words into my mouth
[12:15] <ogra> well, you did proof its neither the download nor the iso that breaks it
[12:16] <cjwatson> that does not prove that it is the burner's fault
[12:16] <ogra> right, sorry
[12:16] <Joit> what is so hard to get there, i put the cd in, it shows the install menu, and after enter, to install, the screen goes out of range
[12:16] <cjwatson> I was quite clear about that just above
[12:16] <Joit> and when i put the param nomodeset in, it works
[12:16] <cjwatson> Joit: the first step should be to make sure that the CD is being read correctly; practically any imaginable problem could result from failures there
[12:16] <Joit> ogra i did do nothing, its how you will understand it, thats the point
[12:17] <cjwatson> Joit: but, once that is fixed, the problem is not one of configuration, but the fact that the kernel does not work out of the box
[12:17] <cjwatson> the Ubuntu kernel should not *require* special configuration options to work out of the box
[12:17] <cjwatson> it is unambiguously a kernel bug if it does
[12:17] <Joit> well anyhow is something messed there, and its not my burner or my cd
[12:18] <cjwatson> so we won't add nomodeset to recovery mode by default, but I encourage you to file a kernel bug about the fact that it doesn't work out of the box
[12:18] <cjwatson> once you've sorted out the CD problems, anyway
[12:18] <Joit> and i am pretty sure about that, i did play now 2 days with that around, and dont see a other solution
[12:18] <Joit> no, i am certain, that i burned min 2 correct.
[12:19] <Joit> but i still get errors in the files
[12:19] <cjwatson> the one thing I have proven is that there is no such checksums error in the ISO image
[12:19] <Joit> the checksums are made, after the files been added
[12:20] <Joit> it is no guarantie, that there are not bad files into the pakcage
[12:20] <cjwatson> the check that you performed checks the checksums
[12:20] <cjwatson> so that's not relevant
[12:21] <Joit> well anyway, its maybe right, that the param not will work at all boards, but i could not add it at grub after installtion
[12:21] <cjwatson> where did you try to add it?
[12:22] <Joit> when i add it with the live cd, it works, but not with grub, After the load screen 'e' and then to the line where it loads the kernel
[12:22] <Joit> after quiet splash
[12:22] <cjwatson> and what did you press after that?
[12:22] <Joit> esc
[12:22] <cjwatson> that cancels your modifications
[12:23] <Joit> ok, then thenormal way would be ctrl+c after taht to get a prompt and type boot?
[12:23] <cjwatson> here's the message it shows below the menu
[12:23] <cjwatson> "Minimum Emacs-like screen editing is supported. TAB lists completions. Press Ctrl-x to boot, Ctrl-c for a command-line or ESC to discard edits and return to the GRUB menu."
[12:23] <cjwatson> so make your modifications, and then press ctrl-x
[12:23] <cjwatson> you don't need to use the command-line via ctrl-c
[12:24] <Joit> a little secrect more, what they hiding, it is not described at the grub page
[12:24] <cjwatson> it's displayed right there on the screen you got with 'e'
[12:25] <Joit> at this screen after e are only the command lines in a box
[12:25] <cjwatson> take a photograph and show me?
[12:25] <Joit> lo
[12:25] <Joit> l
[12:25] <Joit> and send you a postcard also ? even when i would
[12:26] <Joit> ok it says... in german
[12:27] <cjwatson> oh, damnit, I bet this is bug 580178
[12:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 580178 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "German translation of editing screen legend considered harmful! (affects: 2) (heat: 93)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580178
[12:27] <cjwatson> damn fool translators
[12:27] <Joit> minimal emacs similar screen processing is supported.  tab for aautocomplete press STRG-c for prompt or esc for back to the menu
[12:27] <Joit> no ctrl x
[12:27] <cjwatson> right, the German translation is broken
[12:27] <Joit> strg=ctrl
[12:27] <cjwatson> it's ok, I understand German
[12:27] <cjwatson> well enough for that anyway
[12:28] <Joit> darn, why allways that
[12:28] <cjwatson> in that case I apologise, it wasn't your fault but your countrymen's ;-)
[12:28] <cjwatson> but it is specific to German, it's displayed in other languages
[12:28] <cjwatson> I'll see if I can at least get that bogus translation disabled
[12:29] <Joit> ,, i suppose the bug is in progress to get fixed
[12:29] <cjwatson> it wasn't, but it can be, at least disabling it and showing the English text instead
[12:29] <cjwatson> better correct English than wrong German
[12:29] <cjwatson> anyway, press Ctrl-x after making your changes
[12:30] <Joit> well, mainly i still think more at this blackscreen issue.. but since it seems is not a solution, or can mess at some boards up..
[12:30] <Joit> even when i thought, it can be at recover mode, because there should be save settings
[12:31] <Joit> or something, where you set a vga modus
[12:31] <Joit> save* vga modus
[12:33] <dpm> Joit, I caught the conversation and I saw the bug. What does the message exactly says in German? I do see Strg+X mentioned in the translated message at https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/grub2/+pots/grub/de/205/+translate so there might be something else going on
[12:33] <cjwatson> dpm: it looks like it was fixed after the lucid release
[12:34] <cjwatson> or after the last language pack pull, anyway
[12:34] <cjwatson> although the packaged translation in lucid is wrong; it's fixed in maverick
[12:34] <cjwatson> the msgstr in language-pack-de-base/lucid-updates is:
[12:34] <cjwatson> "Minimale Emacs-ähnliche Bildschirmbearbeitung wird unterstützt. TAB listet "
[12:34] <cjwatson> "Vervollständigungen auf. Drücken Sie Strg-C für eine Befehlszeile oder ESC, "
[12:34] <cjwatson> "um zum Menü zurückzukehren."
[12:35] <Joit> Packaged:  	  	
[12:35] <Joit> M
[12:35] <Joit> it is that mesasgw, what is under packages
[12:35] <ogra> "TAB listet Vervollständigungen auf" thats a weird description of what it does
[12:35] <Joit> and the same, what cjwatson pasted, just dont have all letters there :p
[12:36] <cjwatson> I should be able to get a fix for that string into 10.04.1
[12:36] <Joit> yes tab did not work actually, it only switched to the / and showed the dir s there
[12:38] <Joit> md5sum
[12:38] <ogra> "TAB vervollständigt Eingaben" would be the proper description
[12:38] <Joit> sry wrong window
[12:40] <dpm> cjwatson, I see, the Packaged translation in LP mentioning Strg+X confused me as well. So there must been a post-release update to grub which imported new packaged translations, and possibly a fix to the Ubuntu translations post-release which did not make it to the latest language packs. In any case, rather than showing the English string for the fix, we could update the language packs or pull that translation
[12:40] <cjwatson> there was a post-release update to grub, but it did not change translations
[12:41] <cjwatson> however that doesn't rule out LP having done something strange to it
[12:41] <cjwatson> we can update the language packs for .1 (we should anyway) and update the incorrect packaged translations
[12:41] <cjwatson> *translation
[12:41] <cjwatson> that will cover all the bases
[12:41] <dpm> yep, that sounds like a good plan
[12:42] <dpm> I'm still confused to what happened here, though, I'll see if the LP devs can cast some light on this later on
[12:47] <Joit> well i checked now kubuntu desktop iso, and it is right at my pc too
[12:47] <Joit> the checksum is
[12:48] <Joit> also someone else at #ubuntu said, he could install it normally
[12:49] <Joit> so either it is my hardware, what is not supported or the specific driver for this kind is broken
[12:49] <Joit> and sorry, i still doubt, that my burner did mess it :p
[12:50] <cjwatson> I didn't say that your burner messed it up.  I raised that as one of several remaining possibilities.
[12:50] <cjwatson> but I'm getting a bit tired of re-explaining myself, I'm afraid
[12:50] <Joit> yes, and i know, that it is a very close possibility
[12:51] <Joit> well, i understand at the other side too, each supermarket drops each months a new pc out, where they trow all the chip hardware in, and not sure, how they can mix it all together allways
[12:51] <Joit> to find a solution for all of them is maybe a bit hard
[12:52] <Joit> cheap hardware, i meant
[12:53] <Joit> and i remeber other pc's where it did look like, they had a lock in it, that you only can install her Cds and OS on it
[12:59] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Is there any documentation for ubiquity's plugin API anywhere? I haven't really looked yet, but couldn't find anything obvious in the ubiquity source.
[13:02] <Joit> darn now i see, i did dload the wrong edition, this one maybe would be better http://ubuntusatanic.org/screenshots.php
[13:02] <cjwatson> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/Plugins
[13:03] <TheMuso> cjwatson: thanks muchly.
[13:04] <Joit> ok, i need to go, gday and have fun, and thanks for listen