[13:01] <wers> hellooo
[13:01] <thorwil> hi wers, vish, mpt, godbyk-android2
[13:01] <mpt> Hello everyone
[13:01] <vish> o/
[13:01] <wers> hi thorwil
[13:02] <mpt> I'm sorry ivanka, charline, and djsiegel aren't here, I don't know where they are t.b.h.
[13:02] <thorwil> movable bermuda triangle?
[13:03] <mpt> possibly
[13:03] <mpt> Millbank Triangle
[13:03]  * thorwil whistles scary melody
[13:03] <vish> heh
[13:04] <mpt> Is godbyk-android2 actually here?
[13:05] <wers> okayyy. what do we have for today? :)
[13:06] <mpt> Well, I was going to invite godbyk to talk about his ideas for a usability book
[13:07] <wers> usability book, huh? what is this exactly about?
[13:07] <thorwil> mpt: we have been missing him in the -manual channel, lately
[13:07] <mpt> We've been talking a bit about how to present the human interface guidelines
[13:07] <mpt> and Kevin suggested the possibility of having a more general book for design and usability in open source
[13:08] <wers> nice
[13:09] <mpt> But I think, as with the interface guidelines, there's a lack of people with time to write
[13:09] <thorwil> mpt: would be great, if combined with an online version and at least the option of some collaborative editing. could be done with one or 2 full timers plus only few now-and-then collaborators ;p
[13:10] <mpt> oh, only one or two full-timers? :-)
[13:11] <mpt> Kevin suggested this book as inspiration: http://www.uidesigns.com/
[13:11] <thorwil> mpt: one is serious, 2 is mocking maybe a little bit ;)
[13:12] <mpt> hi aday
[13:12] <aday> mpt: hey, sorry i'm late
[13:13] <wers> hi aday :)
[13:14] <mpt> Apart from that, we seem to have a lack of ideas at the moment.
[13:14] <aday> wers: hi :)
[13:14] <mpt> And I will be away on holiday the next two Thursdays, so I won't be able to run these meetings.
[13:14] <thorwil> mpt: unless there's a competent, yet crazy person out there, not in this circle. godbyk has to know himself, but i think the manual project can easily eat his available time in the foreseeable future
[13:15] <mpt> yes
[13:15]  * vish takes note to squeeze stuff from mpt before his vacation ;p
[13:15] <thorwil> no lack of ideas, just a lack of ones that we can tackle, realistically
[13:16] <vish> mpt: lack of ideas? maybe we need more of folks from the ayatana ML ;p
[13:16]  * thorwil knows he starts to sound like a broken record, but can't help it
[13:16] <aday> me and some of the gnome design types have started drawing up some personas. is that something we could tackle?
[13:16] <mpt> yes, that's a possibility
[13:16] <thorwil> vish: SABDFL is my hero. +1, look at that funny picture i madez you!
[13:17] <mpt> We've talked at a couple of UDSes (Jaunty and Karmic, I think) about personas, but we didn't produce any in public
[13:17] <vish> thorwil: pff , fanboyee ;)
[13:18] <wers> something's bugging me about the panel. i'm not sure if this is the right time to discuss it, though
[13:18] <aday> mpt: we've drafted some and i'm planning to do some interviews
[13:18] <vish> aday: personas would be great thing to work on
[13:18] <mpt> aday, great, are the drafts published anywhere?
[13:18] <aday> the main challenge for me is getting interviewees
[13:18] <aday> mpt: it's happening on google wave... we could move the content somewhere else though
[13:19] <aday> or just add interested parties
[13:19] <mpt> I'm an interested party
[13:20] <aday> mpt: got a wave address?
[13:20] <mpt> aday, matthew.thomas
[13:20] <mpt> @gmail
[13:21] <aday> done. anybody else?
[13:21] <vish> o/
[13:21] <mpt> thanks aday
[13:21] <thorwil> o/, too
[13:21] <wers> allancaeg *at* gmail
[13:23] <thorwil> t_w_@freenet.de
[13:23] <mpt> Something else Kevin and I discussed over the past week is setting up a basic user testing template (Do people understand what your program does? How long does it take for them to do something useful with it? etc)
[13:23] <mpt> to encourage the UX advocates to do some user testing, even informally
[13:24] <wers> mpt, that's interesting. do you have a draft template as of the moment?
[13:24] <wers> and what user testing tools do you have in mind?
[13:24] <mpt> no, I haven't
[13:25] <mpt> Just sitting beside someone as they try out the program
[13:25] <mpt> and asking them to do various things
[13:25] <mpt> nothing complicated
[13:25] <mpt> Have any of us run a user test before? I know aday has sat in on one we did at Canonical
[13:26]  * thorwil 's experience is limited to seeing lots of folks stumble through quarkXpress, freehand, photoshop and ms office
[13:27] <wers> i havent yet, but I've seen a morae session before. that's what we're trying to duplicate through the FOSS Usability Testing Suite
[13:27]  * vish neither
[13:27] <wers> actually, my office might buy Morae very soon and we're planning to have user testing as a service next week. i'll see what I'll learn out of the experience
[13:28] <aday> it doesn't have to be as complicated as using screen recording software. you can just watch and make a few notes
[13:28] <mpt> ok, so I will try to persuade charline or someone to write up a basic template, if I don't have time to do it myself
[13:28] <aday> it's amazing how much you can learn that way
[13:28] <mpt> true
[13:28] <wers> aday, i agree, especially if the persona the participant represents thinks very differently from you
[13:29] <mpt> I'll also see if I can persuade ivanka to run the meeting the next couple of weeks.
[13:30] <thorwil> the people thinking different became very clear to me, a hit with a basebal bat couldn't have been clearer
[13:31] <mpt> In the meantime, thanks for turning up. :-)
[13:31] <thorwil> mpt: found ivanka. she just has been in the wiki, free culture showcase :)
[13:31] <thorwil> np, after all, that's all i manage
[13:34] <wers> for user testing, we can use gtk record my desktop or Istanbul in the meantime.
[13:34] <wers> and just run it with the sound recorder
[13:34] <wers> for TAP
[13:35] <wers> casually observing the usage of the software is nice, but it's better to document the test so others can also give their feedback
[13:37] <aday> i'm the ux advocate for nautilus (apparently). i'm planning to blog about that soon. i'll try and put something in there about usability testing
[13:51] <wers> sorry got dc. did a miss anything?
[13:52] <wers> aday, you remember the app centrism discussion? :)
[13:53] <aday> wers: yeah! you moved forward with that at all?
[13:54] <wers> aday, i want to pursue it
[13:54] <wers> i'm actually planning to talk about it at GNOME.Asia
[13:54] <wers> I'll explore it a bit more and maybe borrow your ideas. I'll quote you if I talk about them, of course :D
[13:55] <aday> wers: cool. i've been talking with some designers about document management away from the file system. would love to see that happen
[13:55] <aday> wers: no need to quote me. just buy me a beer ;)
[13:55] <wers> aday, nice. I actually emailed dylan mccall. he's still interested
[13:55] <wers> aday, lol. shipping costs would be more expensive :P i'll just quote you
[13:56] <aday> wers: great. i was excited about his project. that could be a big part of whatever solution we come up with
[13:57] <aday> wers: there's also the stuff that's planned for unity, though i haven't seen many specifics
[13:57] <wers> aday, cool! you mean, solution to app centrism issue?
[13:57] <wers> aday, that' nice. what is it exactly?
[13:57] <aday> wers: i'm primarily thinking about document management outside the file manager
[13:58] <aday> wers: what's unity? the new ubuntu netbook thang
[13:58] <wers> aday, oh. you meant, that (which is your suggestion on the thread) could be a solution (to the document management issue), correct?
[13:59] <wers> aday, i meant, what's the solution on unity exactly? is there a specific app addressing the issue?
[14:00] <aday> wers: i hear they're planning to use zeitgeist for file management
[14:01] <wers> aday, oh. you mean, the engine right? so just the backend but not Activity Journal?
[14:01] <aday> wers: yes. no indications of what the front will look like yet
[14:02] <wers> if so, how will this address the issue? will it display filetype-specific options?
[14:05] <aday> wers: dunno! we might be on slightly different wave lengths on this one... i'd like to see you slides or whatever when they're done
[14:06] <wers> aday, oh. let's just wait for it :)
[14:07] <aday> wers: we'll i'd like to try and collaborate with unity if possible. it would be great if gnome could use some of the work they're doing
[14:07] <aday> *we'll -> well
[14:08] <wers> aday, that's exactly what i was thinking. we could use some upstream love. i was actually wondering if you were involved in unity, but weren't talking about this upstream. hehe
[14:08] <wers> but you mentioned that you're waiting for them so I figured. haha
[14:09] <wers> 'cause the thing with this is, it's not a netbook-specific issue. the GNOME desktop can use it
[14:10] <wers> which makes me think, why doesn't GNOME have a netbook interface, unlike KDE? ok nevermind. offtopic. lol
[14:11] <aday> wers: well that depends. they might have a very restricted set of use-cases. we'd have to discuss it
[14:12] <wers> yep. let's just talk about it in the right venue
[15:03] <sbr> Hello
[15:06] <sbr> Any metting
[15:09] <sbr> Is anyone here?
[15:11] <czajkowski> sbr: what meeting are you looking for http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[15:11] <sbr> the java meeting
[15:17] <sbr> czajkowski: the details on the meeting says 15 - 16, so maybe it is registered wrong
[15:17] <czajkowski> sbr: I've no idea sorry I've never seen that meeting
[15:18] <sbr> czajkowski: okay thanks, I will try at 15
[16:07] <sbr> Any meetting?