=== noy_ is now known as noy === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === noy_ is now known as noy === ogra_ is now known as ogra === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann === BlackZ_ is now known as BlackZ === freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying === dyfet` is now known as dyfet === kiko is now known as 40FAA4R6V [13:01] hellooo [13:01] hi wers, vish, mpt, godbyk-android2 [13:01] Hello everyone [13:01] o/ [13:01] hi thorwil [13:02] I'm sorry ivanka, charline, and djsiegel aren't here, I don't know where they are t.b.h. [13:02] movable bermuda triangle? [13:03] possibly [13:03] Millbank Triangle [13:03] * thorwil whistles scary melody [13:03] heh [13:04] Is godbyk-android2 actually here? [13:05] okayyy. what do we have for today? :) [13:06] Well, I was going to invite godbyk to talk about his ideas for a usability book [13:07] usability book, huh? what is this exactly about? [13:07] mpt: we have been missing him in the -manual channel, lately [13:07] We've been talking a bit about how to present the human interface guidelines [13:07] and Kevin suggested the possibility of having a more general book for design and usability in open source [13:08] nice [13:09] But I think, as with the interface guidelines, there's a lack of people with time to write [13:09] mpt: would be great, if combined with an online version and at least the option of some collaborative editing. could be done with one or 2 full timers plus only few now-and-then collaborators ;p [13:10] oh, only one or two full-timers? :-) [13:11] Kevin suggested this book as inspiration: http://www.uidesigns.com/ [13:11] mpt: one is serious, 2 is mocking maybe a little bit ;) [13:12] hi aday [13:12] mpt: hey, sorry i'm late [13:13] hi aday :) [13:14] Apart from that, we seem to have a lack of ideas at the moment. [13:14] wers: hi :) [13:14] And I will be away on holiday the next two Thursdays, so I won't be able to run these meetings. [13:14] mpt: unless there's a competent, yet crazy person out there, not in this circle. godbyk has to know himself, but i think the manual project can easily eat his available time in the foreseeable future [13:15] yes [13:15] * vish takes note to squeeze stuff from mpt before his vacation ;p [13:15] no lack of ideas, just a lack of ones that we can tackle, realistically [13:16] mpt: lack of ideas? maybe we need more of folks from the ayatana ML ;p [13:16] * thorwil knows he starts to sound like a broken record, but can't help it [13:16] me and some of the gnome design types have started drawing up some personas. is that something we could tackle? [13:16] yes, that's a possibility [13:16] vish: SABDFL is my hero. +1, look at that funny picture i madez you! [13:17] We've talked at a couple of UDSes (Jaunty and Karmic, I think) about personas, but we didn't produce any in public [13:17] thorwil: pff , fanboyee ;) === starcraft is now known as starcraftman [13:18] something's bugging me about the panel. i'm not sure if this is the right time to discuss it, though [13:18] mpt: we've drafted some and i'm planning to do some interviews [13:18] aday: personas would be great thing to work on [13:18] aday, great, are the drafts published anywhere? [13:18] the main challenge for me is getting interviewees [13:18] mpt: it's happening on google wave... we could move the content somewhere else though [13:19] or just add interested parties [13:19] I'm an interested party [13:20] mpt: got a wave address? [13:20] aday, matthew.thomas [13:20] @gmail [13:21] done. anybody else? [13:21] o/ [13:21] thanks aday [13:21] o/, too [13:21] allancaeg *at* gmail [13:23] t_w_@freenet.de [13:23] Something else Kevin and I discussed over the past week is setting up a basic user testing template (Do people understand what your program does? How long does it take for them to do something useful with it? etc) [13:23] to encourage the UX advocates to do some user testing, even informally [13:24] mpt, that's interesting. do you have a draft template as of the moment? [13:24] and what user testing tools do you have in mind? [13:24] no, I haven't === yofel_ is now known as yofel [13:25] Just sitting beside someone as they try out the program [13:25] and asking them to do various things [13:25] nothing complicated [13:25] Have any of us run a user test before? I know aday has sat in on one we did at Canonical [13:26] * thorwil 's experience is limited to seeing lots of folks stumble through quarkXpress, freehand, photoshop and ms office [13:27] i havent yet, but I've seen a morae session before. that's what we're trying to duplicate through the FOSS Usability Testing Suite [13:27] * vish neither [13:27] actually, my office might buy Morae very soon and we're planning to have user testing as a service next week. i'll see what I'll learn out of the experience [13:28] it doesn't have to be as complicated as using screen recording software. you can just watch and make a few notes [13:28] ok, so I will try to persuade charline or someone to write up a basic template, if I don't have time to do it myself [13:28] it's amazing how much you can learn that way [13:28] true [13:28] aday, i agree, especially if the persona the participant represents thinks very differently from you [13:29] I'll also see if I can persuade ivanka to run the meeting the next couple of weeks. [13:30] the people thinking different became very clear to me, a hit with a basebal bat couldn't have been clearer [13:31] In the meantime, thanks for turning up. :-) [13:31] mpt: found ivanka. she just has been in the wiki, free culture showcase :) [13:31] np, after all, that's all i manage [13:34] for user testing, we can use gtk record my desktop or Istanbul in the meantime. [13:34] and just run it with the sound recorder [13:34] for TAP [13:35] casually observing the usage of the software is nice, but it's better to document the test so others can also give their feedback [13:37] i'm the ux advocate for nautilus (apparently). i'm planning to blog about that soon. i'll try and put something in there about usability testing === keffie_jayx_ is now known as keffie_jayx [13:51] sorry got dc. did a miss anything? [13:52] aday, you remember the app centrism discussion? :) [13:53] wers: yeah! you moved forward with that at all? [13:54] aday, i want to pursue it [13:54] i'm actually planning to talk about it at GNOME.Asia [13:54] I'll explore it a bit more and maybe borrow your ideas. I'll quote you if I talk about them, of course :D [13:55] wers: cool. i've been talking with some designers about document management away from the file system. would love to see that happen [13:55] wers: no need to quote me. just buy me a beer ;) [13:55] aday, nice. I actually emailed dylan mccall. he's still interested [13:55] aday, lol. shipping costs would be more expensive :P i'll just quote you [13:56] wers: great. i was excited about his project. that could be a big part of whatever solution we come up with [13:57] wers: there's also the stuff that's planned for unity, though i haven't seen many specifics [13:57] aday, cool! you mean, solution to app centrism issue? [13:57] aday, that' nice. what is it exactly? [13:57] wers: i'm primarily thinking about document management outside the file manager [13:58] wers: what's unity? the new ubuntu netbook thang [13:58] aday, oh. you meant, that (which is your suggestion on the thread) could be a solution (to the document management issue), correct? [13:59] aday, i meant, what's the solution on unity exactly? is there a specific app addressing the issue? [14:00] wers: i hear they're planning to use zeitgeist for file management [14:01] aday, oh. you mean, the engine right? so just the backend but not Activity Journal? [14:01] wers: yes. no indications of what the front will look like yet [14:02] if so, how will this address the issue? will it display filetype-specific options? [14:05] wers: dunno! we might be on slightly different wave lengths on this one... i'd like to see you slides or whatever when they're done [14:06] aday, oh. let's just wait for it :) [14:07] wers: we'll i'd like to try and collaborate with unity if possible. it would be great if gnome could use some of the work they're doing [14:07] *we'll -> well [14:08] aday, that's exactly what i was thinking. we could use some upstream love. i was actually wondering if you were involved in unity, but weren't talking about this upstream. hehe [14:08] but you mentioned that you're waiting for them so I figured. haha [14:09] 'cause the thing with this is, it's not a netbook-specific issue. the GNOME desktop can use it [14:10] which makes me think, why doesn't GNOME have a netbook interface, unlike KDE? ok nevermind. offtopic. lol [14:11] wers: well that depends. they might have a very restricted set of use-cases. we'd have to discuss it [14:12] yep. let's just talk about it in the right venue === Destine is now known as Moon === Moon is now known as Destine [15:03] Hello [15:06] Any metting [15:09] Is anyone here? [15:11] sbr: what meeting are you looking for http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar [15:11] the java meeting [15:17] czajkowski: the details on the meeting says 15 - 16, so maybe it is registered wrong [15:17] sbr: I've no idea sorry I've never seen that meeting [15:18] czajkowski: okay thanks, I will try at 15 [16:07] Any meetting? === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville === apachelogger is now known as brokenl00gR === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann === cyphermox_ is now known as cyphermox === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiann === oubiann is now known as oubiwann === oubiwann is now known as oubiann === oubiann is now known as oubiwann