# /srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/06/26/#ubuntu-manual.txt

zkriesse nisshh zkriesse hello nisshh 02:22 zkriesse: hey 02:23 nisshh: and how are you this fine day/afternoon/evening 02:24 zkriesse: really good actually, im planning on playing some urban terror then im going out and then ill be writing some code 02:24 zkriesse: how about you? 02:25 eh editing some manual stuff, trying to move my knee as little as possible 02:25 I'm Zach btw...new 'round the manual team 02:25 zkriesse: right, didnt think id seen you in here before 02:26 just popped in the other night 02:26 zkriesse: im Ryan, iv been working on the manual since the start 02:26 Well nice to meet ya's 02:26 you too 02:26 :) 02:26 Fortunately I know a few of ya's on the project 02:27 cjohnston: for one 02:27 yea 02:28 and pleia2 02:28 I work with her on the Learning/Classroom stuff 02:28 oh cool 02:29 I think so anyway 02:29 its like 3 teams in one now, huh? 02:29 Least she asked me to do a User Day course so.... 02:29 meh 02:29 Sad part is I had the outline for my "speech" all written up, switched back to my 'buntu after a windows period and forgot to save the darn file 02:30 so now i gotta start over 02:30 zkriesse: oh, that happens i guess, i dont even use windows anymore 02:31 never needed it 02:31 I was for a while 02:31 zkriesse: yea, doing stuff like that was what taught me the importance of backups 02:32 he 02:32 vish: ya round? 02:40 nisshh: how bout u 02:41 zkriesse: whats that? 02:46 sorry i was busy 02:46 nisshh: ok fixing a manual bug 02:47 I'm using Bazaar Explorer 02:47 To commit the bug fix what do i put in the "Bug" field 02:47 zkriesse: oh, i have no idea, iv never used BE 02:48 ok what about the terminal 02:48 zkriesse: oh thats easy 02:48 I'm typing in bzr commit but now i don't know what to type 02:48 zkriesse: bzr commit -m "Fixed bug LP: 02:49 zkriesse: bzr commit -m "Fixed bug LP:" 02:49 ok 02:49 also you can add the --fixes option 02:49 lemme try that 02:49 brandonj: good point 02:49 bzr commit --fixes=lp: -m "Fixed bug lp:" 02:49 yea thats it 02:50 bzr commit --fixes=lp: -m "Fixed bug lp:" that look right? 02:51 no no 02:51 haha 02:51 no <'s or >'s 02:51 ok 02:52 and don't put 02:52 bug #596853 02:52 just do 02:52 bzr commit --fixes=lp:596853 -m "Fixed bug lp:596853" 02:52 sorry for the confusion 02:52 Ok i did that...now how will i know it's fixed? 02:55 did you push it? 02:55 yes 02:55 it should show up here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2 02:56 are you sure you did bzr push? 02:56 I think so 02:57 ok 02:57 wait.... 02:57 nope i did the commit part 02:57 right 02:57 now i need to do bzr push 02:57 so after you commit you need to push 02:57 Using saved push location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/ 02:58 bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir() 02:58 wait 02:58 um 02:58 fixed it 02:58 i think 02:58 what was the issue? 02:58 it seems to be working, the page says 'updating branch' now 02:59 6. Finally, run: 02:59 bzr push 02:59 If you've never pushed code to this branch before, bzr will 02:59 complain.  You can run: 02:59 bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2 02:59 to satisfy it.  From that point on, bzr will remember the location 02:59 and you should be able to simply run 'bzr push'. 02:59 that bzr manual on lists.lp 02:59 godbyk: sent that to me 02:59 right 02:59 ok 02:59 you've got revisions 115 & 116 03:00 oh I see.  You did a commit earlier today, but didn't push it afterwords 03:00 yeah 03:00 I thought i did 03:00 still learning 03:00 no big deal 03:00 so now i can change the bug status of the one i fixed 03:01 right? 03:01 to "fix commited" 03:01 not "fix released" 03:01 ok 03:02 i guess i'll just skip using that Bazaar explorer and just use the terminal 03:03 Terminal is better anyway is it not 03:03 I haven't used a gui for it, so I can't really say 03:04 ah 03:04 but the cli gets the job done 03:04 well i need to take a shower..when i come back i'll have some more questions if that's ok? 03:04 sure 03:04 cool 03:04 thanks dude 03:05 no problem 03:06 brandonj: ping 04:25 hi 04:27 zkriesse: pong 04:27 brandonj: when i try to unlock my ubuntu-manual to update i get "The lock for '/home/zach/Projects/ubuntu-manual' is in use and cannot be broken" 04:28 Any idea on how to fix that? 04:28 I've never encountered that problem 04:29 hmm 04:29 maybe it has something to do with the gui you're using? 04:29 eh not using it now 04:30 using terminal 04:30 what command did you use that produced that error? 04:30 wasn't a terminal command at first 04:31 in the ubuntu-manual folder i choose to update and it caved 04:31 but i think that update button is there cause of the GUi 04:31 so i think i'm gonna uninstall that 04:31 'bzr pull'? 04:31 bzr pull produces no issues 04:35 i think it's the GUI causing issues 04:35 ok 04:35 I'll just use the terminal 04:36 I once tried a similar gui for svn and it just caused me problems 04:36 Any commands that you can give me? 04:36 well basically the only commands you really need are pull, commit, and push 04:36 ok 04:36 pull does what 04:36 you can always type 'man bzr' to read the man page 04:36 bzr pull downloads newer revisions from launchpad 04:37 how do i edit pages and such via the terminal? 04:37 you don't have to do that in the terminal if you don't want to 04:37 Ok 04:38 Well how do i edit a page 04:38 just open them in gedit or whatever 04:38 ok 04:38 Are the pages in the different folders in /Projects/ubuntu-manual? 04:38 every chapter has a folder 04:39 ok 04:39 so you can see there are folders for "installation" "commandline" "around-desktop" etc 04:39 each of those corresponds to a chapter 04:39 ok 04:39 each folder has one or more .tex files that contain the actual text 04:40 yup 04:40 you're familiar with latex? 04:40 ah no 04:40 so if you open up one of the tex files you'll see they're all writen in latex 04:41 Ah 04:41 that's the format 04:41 right 04:41 I wondered about that 04:41 latex is what generates nice pdfs 04:41 so there is a style guide somewhere that will give you a quick intro to what you need to know about that 04:41 let me find it 04:41 * zkriesse waits 04:42 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/StyleGuide 04:42 so theres some basic latex stuff there 04:43 ok 04:43 oh ignore that style guide 04:44 this is the better one 04:44 http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf 04:44 yup  got that already 04:45 so theres basic latex stuff in there 04:45 ok cool 04:45 you should be able to build the manual by typing 'make ubuntu-manual-en_US.pdf' 04:46 its usually a good idea to test that it still works after you make changes 04:46 I keep seeing alot of LaTeX Marginpar error on page "" 04:47 is that bad? 04:47 there will be lots of warnings 04:47 ok 04:47 did you install the latest version of latex like is says on the website? 04:47 you mean the one to compile from source? yes 04:49 ok.  did your pdf build correctly? 04:50 meaning? 04:50 did it say "Success! Wrote 165 pages"? 04:50 oh yeah 04:51 ok, good 04:51 :D 04:51 sorry for being such a noob at this 04:51 not a problem 04:51 All I really edit is wiki stuff 04:51 oh look at that 04:53 there is a readme.txt file that has some useful info in there 04:53 ok 04:53 pardon me for just a few, i've got to go ask my team if theyve been doing anything for the SoD project lately 04:54 back 04:59 ok 05:01 was going to change that Mac OS X issue 05:02 I think it should be caps 05:02 hm i dont know much about that 05:03 Eh 05:03 I think godbyk is working on it anyway 05:03 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/556425 05:18 what do you think about that one 05:18 if you'd like to start working on it go ahead 05:19 I think the idea for the maverick release is to be more noob friendly 05:20 ah 05:20 which is good 05:20 ilya haykinson is the author coordinator, so you might give him a heads-up too 05:20 any way that you know of that i can contact by? 05:21 on here 05:21 or email 05:21 https://launchpad.net/~haykinson 05:22 thanks 05:22 np 05:22 http://omgubuntu.co.uk/ 05:53 post on the book stats 05:53 awesome 05:54 by humphreybc 05:54 :) 05:54 Original stats gathered and summarized by godbyk :) 05:54 OmgBot announces when new posts are made on the OMG! 05:55 heh 05:55 it would be silly of him not to 05:55 possibly the most useful thing OmgBot does, apart from the ability to give people a beer 05:55 haha 05:56 if only they were real 05:56 there is another one that he does which I forget 05:56 I should know, I wrote it 05:56 lol 05:56 !digest 05:58 that's the one 05:58 is kevin godby here? 06:50 hello 06:55 ooh: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/pytask-task-manager-is-simple.html thats my app 08:08 :) 08:08 humphreybc: that was a touching comment on omgubuntu, thanks for that! 08:20 Hello, do anyone have the pictures of the upcoming personas stuff that humphreybc showed us a month ago ? 11:05 c7p: personas? 11:24 c7p: i have no idea what you mean 11:24 someone else might know 11:25 nisshh: I'm not sure if that's the word (i.e persona) that he mentioned, "personas" (or whatever he called it) are some quickstart guides for different imaginary characters e.g Student, Entrepreneur, teenager etc 11:28 nevermind :) 11:31 cu later 11:32 http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/06/26/s03e10-the-fresh-air-cure/ # featuring our very own humphreybc 12:40 dutchie: does he say anything new or outrageous in there? :) 12:47 not really 12:53 === ZachK_ is now known as zkriesse godbyk: ping 15:13 humphreybc: he's probably still on the train 15:22 why am i in a permanent state of having no battery? :( 15:23 awh 15:23 where's godbyk off to/ 15:23 wonder what i should do about the buttons for my dad's new 10.40 install 15:23 humphreybc: TeX conference in SF 15:24 ahh, yes, he's super excited about that 15:26 read the comment about the german translation: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/some-fun-stats-from-ubuntu-manual.html 15:26 We need to get translated editions out ASAP 15:26 I have AC power on the train, but no Internet. 17:34 Sitting at the Denver station right now. 17:35 hey godbyk-android 17:38 Hey, ubuntujenkins. 17:38 15:13:56 < humphreybc> godbyk: ping 17:39 dunno what he wanted 17:39 i suspect: 17:39 15:26:42 < humphreybc> We need to get translated editions out ASAP 17:40 I don't think my net connection (via my phone) will last for too long once we leave Denver. 17:40 Ah, so nothing new. :-) 17:40 X appears to have heplfully crashed 79% through the install of 10.04 onto my dad's computer 17:40 I might try to work on some of the latex coding things for the translations while I'm on the train. We'll see how it goes. 17:41 someone was complaining about RTL support in an OMG Ubuntu comment 17:43 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/some-fun-stats-from-ubuntu-manual.html 17:43 Yeah, I haven't designed the rtl version of the manual yet. 17:44 It's a lower priority given the state I'd those translations, I think. 17:45 godbyk-android: I worked out that we are using differnet drivers to build some parts of the manual. One of them being that h* word 17:45 hyperref? 17:46 hey gents 19:35 hello zkriesse 19:38 ah hi ubuntujenkins 19:38 quite in here 19:40 yeah 19:42 dutchie: is there a meeting tonight? 19:43 ubuntujenkins: there was a meeting the other day 19:43 don't know if that's the one you're thinking of 19:43 Wait...sorry 19:43 I'm thinking of the docs meeting 19:43 no worries 19:43 pleia2: are we having the docs/manual/learning meeting soon? 19:45 ah vish ya round? 19:59 godbyk: how bout u 19:59 zkriesse: godbyk is on a train as far as i know 19:59 ah 19:59 ok 19:59 ubuntujenkins: Well I'm Zach..just started out wit you guys 19:59 ubuntujenkins: no idea 20:00 hello Zach Kriesse right? 20:00 yes 20:00 what would you like help with? 20:00 if anything :) 20:00 Well the https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/556425 20:00 I'm trying to figure out how much info do we want on the actual kernel itself 20:00 too much can overwhelm the person(s) reading it...and from what godbyk told me it's going to start getting aimed at the much newer noob user 20:01 well personally i would say very little the manual is for people who are moving over from windows /getting started.( what godbyk said) 20:02 Exactly 20:02 something like... 20:02 and describing a kernel is going to be like, an overload of huge proportions 20:02 yea 20:03 come up with simple analogy & stick with that 20:03 ah hey brandonj 20:03 hi 20:03 hello brandonj 20:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel 20:04 I found that....think you could pull the good info and i'll paste it in there? 20:04 I'm not too familiar with the kernel myself 20:04 I know WHAT it is but not a whole lot 20:04 the reader doesn't need to know a whole lot, or even a little lot 20:05 hmm best to write it yourself. i think about three lines is all we need if anything 20:05 Ok 20:05 do our readers need to know anything about the kernel, actually? 20:05 thats what i am thinking 20:05 Let me think of what I'd write then I'll paste it here for review before i commit it 20:05 they just need ubuntu to work 20:05 True 20:06 8thinking/leaning towards 20:06 I think they should be aware of its presence, so if somebody else mentions it they aren't completely confused 20:06 Using Ubuntu itself is going to be a lot itself so a little will still be quite a bit 20:06 zkriesse: we write in us english which has confused me as i am in the uk 20:07 just in case no one had said :) 20:07 ubuntujenkins: ah 20:07 I can't write anything that makes sense 20:09 lol 20:10 all my stuff would just confuse people more than not telling them about it 20:11 is UK english more confusing than US english? 20:12 they are very similar but some spelling is different, which is harder to rember 20:13 *remember if you forget spelling easily like me. 20:13 yeah but that wouldn't confuse and reasonable person 20:13 any* 20:13 of course not but we try and make it all the same and then we translate to english uk 20:14 right 20:14 ChrisWoollard: how is the english uk manual going? 20:15 builds.u-m.org says 100% 20:15 yea but then there is lots of extra tweaks and adjustments to get the layout spot on 20:16 oh 20:16 we like it looking smart and neat 20:16 hehe 20:17 like margin note in the correct place they can some times be slightly out of place. also we don't want them over two pages also there is a whole list of other things 20:17 http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo 20:18 thats the list of stuff 20:19 plus check fonts, and i have to sort the index rules if it is not supported by xindy 20:19 ubuntujenkins: let me touch base with doctormo and get back to you re: meeting... hopefully I'll plan it on a day which isn't a holiday this time :) 20:49 hey pleia2 20:49 ubuntujenkins: sounds like none of the teams have settled on document format, I've been working with docbook some though 20:50 doh 20:53 morning zkriesse 20:53 :D 20:53 brandonj: hey 21:43 question 21:43 trying to convert a .tex file to .pdf 21:43 my own file of course 21:43 hi 21:45 um 21:45 read 'man pdflatex' 21:45 zkriesse: does "pdflatex .tex" not work? 21:45 dutchie: no 21:45 it says it can't find the file 21:46 I cd'd to my desktop where the file is 21:46 wait hold on 21:46 one sec 21:46 hello again all 21:47 This is pdfTeX, Version 3.1415926-1.40.10 (TeX Live 2009) 21:47 entering extended mode 21:47 (./WikiGuidelines.tex 21:47 LaTeX2e <2009/09/24> 21:47 Babel and hyphenation patterns for english, usenglishmax, dumylang, noh 21:47 yphenation, german-x-2009-06-19, ngerman-x-2009-06-19, ancientgreek, ibycus, ar 21:47 abic, basque, bulgarian, catalan, pinyin, coptic, croatian, czech, danish, dutc 21:47 h, esperanto, estonian, farsi, finnish, french, galician, german, ngerman, mono 21:47 greek, greek, hungarian, icelandic, assamese, bengali, gujarati, hindi, kannada 21:47 , malayalam, marathi, oriya, panjabi, tamil, telugu, indonesian, interlingua, i 21:48 rish, italian, kurmanji, latin, latvian, lithuanian, mongolian, mongolianlmc, b 21:48 okmal, nynorsk, polish, portuguese, romanian, russian, sanskrit, serbian, slova 21:48 k, slovenian, spanish, swedish, turkish, turkmen, ukenglish, ukrainian, upperso 21:48 rbian, welsh, loaded. 21:48 ! Undefined control sequence. 21:48 l.3 \chapter 21:48 {Wiki Editing} 21:48 ? 21:48 ok what do i do? 21:48 rather than pasting that in here can you use a pastebin? 21:48 oops sorry 21:48 forgot 21:48 heh its ok 21:48 as many times as i've told people to use pastebin i should know better 21:49 can you post your .tex file as well? 21:49 you mean the one i wish to convert? 21:49 yes 21:49 i bet you need to \documentclass{book} 21:50 that could be it 21:50 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455626/ 21:51 yes, add \documentclass{book} 21:52 zkriesse: you need a load of stuff around that 21:52 ok what 21:52 \begin{document} wouldn't go amiss 21:52 hang on 21:52 ok 21:52 Ugh...hate being a noob 21:52 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Absolute_Beginners#The_LaTeX_source for a minimal LaTeX document 21:53 that wikibook is rather good iirc 21:53 ok so what do i do 21:54 I'm more than new to this so... 21:54 ah wait 21:54 hold on lemme look 21:54 zkriesse: you want something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455628/ 21:56 it still didn't work 21:57 what was the error now? 21:58 one sec 21:58 \gls isn't defined I don't think 21:59 so that should give you an error 22:00 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455631/ 22:03 did it work? 22:04 no 22:04 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/455631/ 22:05 it says Output written on WikiGuidelines.pdf 22:05 yeah but the pages are all messed up 22:05 try running it a few times 22:05 that sometimes sorts it out 22:05 nope 22:06 it's all messed up 22:06 blank pages and such 22:07 those are meant to be there I think 22:07 from the book class 22:07 I really didn't want a book 22:08 just a page 22:08 try \documentclass{article} instead 22:09 i did and it said it's missing a slash 22:09 \ 22:09 remove the table of contents 22:11 and change \chapter to \section 22:11 \chapter doesnt exist in the article class 22:11 you can change the other sections to \subsection 22:12 and \subsubsection as appropriate 22:12 ok now it's getting there 22:14 how do i add a text link? 22:15 or is that not possible 22:15 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Hyperlinks 22:15 a text link to what? 22:15 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide 22:15 if you put \usepackage{hyperref} in the preamble (the part before \begin{document}) you can use \url{url} 22:16 or you can do \href{url}{text} 22:17 ok think i got it 22:19 I want to push it up to my project on lp 22:20 oh it put WikiGuidelines.toc on my desktop. 22:20 can i delete that stuff? 22:21 yeah 22:21 ok pushing it up to lp 22:21 i don't know a whole lot about launchpad 22:22 do you already have a branch you're using? 22:22 yeh 22:23 THink i got it 22:23 i think you can just do bzr add file.tex 22:24 many thanks getns 22:25 "gents 22:25 I'm off to study for the gre 22:31 bye 22:31 Passing through Glenwood Springs, Colorado, now. 23:51 Will see how long the cell phone reception lasts. 23:52 godbyk-android: cool 23:53 Some mother keeps screaming at her baby to stop crying; the baby's paying no mind. 23:55 (Not entirely sure how she expected that to work.) 23:55

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