=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away
=== oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann
=== Destine is now known as Final_Removal
=== lifeless_ is now known as lifeless
=== MichealH is now known as MichealH|Laptop
=== ian_brasil_ is now known as ian_brasil
=== MichealH is now known as MichealH|Laptop
=== MichealH|Laptop is now known as MichealH
* MichealH|Laptop has got his IRC Log Server thingy Sorted :)17:05
bulldog98hi shadeslayer17:44
keesmdeslaur: green18:06
mdeslaurwe ready?18:07
keesjdstrand: here?18:07
keessbeattie: ping18:07
MootBotMeeting started at 12:11. The chair is kees.18:11
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:11
kees[topic] stand-up report18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  stand-up report18:11
keesi'm on community.  will be continuing to chase down some stuff in the kernel for yama, and the compiler for hardening testsuites this week18:11
keesI did any of my merges that were worth merging last week.  (though I guess debmirror still needs merging technically...)18:12
keesmy mind is empty... uhm, mdeslaur, you're up.  :)18:13
sbeattie(yay monday morning!)18:13
mdeslaurso, I'll continue my work on openssl this week18:13
mdeslaurhardy's renegotiation is failing for me currently, as it seems it is compiled without tls extensions18:13
mdeslaurand changing that will break ABI18:14
mdeslaurso I'll be working on that18:14
mdeslaurand pretty much just that18:14
mdeslaurover and out18:14
jdstrandso, surprisingly, I am working on firefox18:14
* kees hugs jdstrand18:14
keesjdstrand: you've got a break now while openjdk-6 compiles for 70 hours.  ;)18:15
mdeslaurwe're not worthy! we're not worthy!18:15
ofirkthe Kubuntu meeting starts in 15 minutes, right?18:15
jdstrandhardy and lucid should go out tomorrow. upstream firedrilled a 3.6.6 release that needs to be retested18:15
jdstrandkees: hehe-- I had my people kill off openjdk :P18:15
mdeslauropenjdk got whacked18:16
nxvlwhy they keep doing that18:16
jdstrandthe nice thing about 3.6.6 is that we will probably be the first distro with it ;)18:16
mdeslaurUbuntu rocks FarmVille!18:16
jdstrandnxvl: the new OOP thingie broke flash18:16
jdstrandnxvl: under certain circumstances on low powered machines18:16
* nxvl hates mozilla more every release18:17
jdstrandnxvl: you know, the stuff you are interested in :P18:17
nxvljdstrand: ohhh, yeah, suuuure18:17
jdstrandother than that, we need to wait on openjdk for jaunty and karmic before releasing 3.6 for them18:17
jdstrandI am hoping to get sudo out this week18:18
sbeattiejdstrand: openjdk for jaunty and karmic will be 6b18 based?18:18
jdstrandand am on triage, though I am off from Thu through Mon18:18
keesjdstrand: I can take your triage this week18:18
keesjdstrand: though I might make sbeattie do it with me.  ;)18:18
sbeattiekees: fairy nuff.18:19
jdstrandsbeattie: the plan is to backport what is in lucid-proposed to jaunty and karmic, so yeah. if it passes the tests, we will get the server team to test it with tomcat and eucalyptus18:19
jdstrandkees: oh, thanks!18:19
jdstrandsbeattie: once firefox is done building in the ppa, chriscoulson will upload one of the openjdks18:20
jdstrandsbeattie: then when it is done, upload the other. this should give room for -security builds and alpha218:20
jdstrandsbeattie: do you have a preference which is uploaded?18:20
sbeattiejdstrand: it doesn't matter.18:20
sbeattiemy fear is that I can just about guarantee there will be some small amount of regressions in the devtools portion of the JCK testing kit with 6b18.18:21
jdstrandI did get to my tcpdump and cron merges last week. I'll probably do sudo this week (as part of my update)18:21
jdstrandthat is all from me18:21
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks.18:22
jdstrandsbeattie: yeah. we'll have to evaluate it and see which more work, backporting fixes or backporting plugin stuff18:22
sbeattieFor me, now that firefox is requiring openjdk uploads, I've been roped in to do JCK testing.18:22
* jdstrand feels bad :(18:23
sbeattieIt's continuation of work I was doing on the QA team, so it makes sense.18:23
sbeattieMy goal is to finish up work I was doing to automate setting up and running the testsuites as much as possible, to hand off to QA going forward.18:24
keessounds good18:24
jdstrandhopefully that work can be pushed back to QA after this, and in such a manner that we can potentially verify security/SRUs going forward18:24
* jdstrand isn't sure how feasible that is18:25
keeswe've got 5 minutes before the next meeting starts -- that it for stand-up report?18:25
sbeattiejdstrand: that's my hope, too; the annoying bit is even with automation, the runtime component requires manual interaction and takes several hours.18:25
Riddellofirk: we'll move kubuntu meeting to #kubuntu-devel18:25
keesRiddell: we're almost done18:25
jdstrandsbeattie: that isn't several hours of manual intervention though, is it?18:26
sbeattiekees: yes, that's it for me.18:26
kees[topic] other stuff18:26
MootBotNew Topic:  other stuff18:26
ofirkRiddell: thanks18:26
sbeattiejdstrand: yes, I believe so.18:26
jdstrandah bummer18:26
keesanyone got any other things for the security team?  nxvl, jjohansen: anything you guys need?18:26
jdstrandI was hoping it was a little intervention, then it just takes a long time18:26
nxvlkees: yes, but firefox needs to be updated, so no :(18:26
jjohansennot me18:27
keesnxvl: heh.  yeah, it's a lot of work, but i'll be worth it.  :)18:27
keesokay, thanks everyone!18:27
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:27.18:27
sbeattiewoot thanks.18:27
jdstrandnxvl: btw, I think 3.6.6 for hardy lpia is ready, and i386 is currently building18:27
jdstrandthanks kees!18:28
* nxvl cries18:28
* maco waves to lex7918:29
* ikonia waves to maco18:29
* lex79 hugs maco18:30
* shadeslayer waves to *18:30
* a|wen just waves wildly18:30
Riddellgood evening friends18:30
=== jtechidna is now known as JontheEchidna
Riddellhow are we today?18:30
a|wenevening Riddell18:30
shadeslayerevening all :D18:30
Riddellneversfelde, apachelogger, JontheEchidna, ScottK: council poke18:31
DarkwingDuck_Did I make it?18:31
* bulldog98 waves back and waves to everybody he hasn’t waved to18:31
=== DarkwingDuck_ is now known as DarkwingDuck
shadeslayerDarkwingDuck: yeah :)18:32
Riddellfirst thing is to welcome the new council members18:32
* ScottK has never been on a council before.18:32
ikonianew council members ?18:32
ikoniawhich council ?18:32
Riddelland thank the ones whose time came to an end18:32
Riddellkubuntu council18:32
shadeslayerikonia: Kubuntu Council18:32
Riddellthanks to nightrose, seele and me!18:32
yuriyhi everyone18:32
ofirkI'm back18:32
ryanakcaHi too18:32
Riddellwelcome along ScottK, neversfelde and little me18:33
Riddellmay we not have to vote much18:33
rbelemHello guys18:33
Riddellshall we start with memberships?18:33
Riddellofirk: want to go first?18:33
ofirkRiddell: sure18:34
Riddelltell us who you are18:34
ofirkMy name is Ofir Klinger, I am 21 years old18:34
Riddelland why you want to be a kubuntu member18:34
ofirkI live in Israel near Tel Aviv18:34
ofirkI am a student for Electrical Engineering at Bar-Ilan University18:34
ofirkI started learning website building 7 years ago. I know PHP, HTML, CSS and JS. I also know how to write plugins for Wordpress and how to build websites using Wordpress and of course, Drupal. I like building and maintaining websites, currently I have 5 websites which I maintain.18:34
ofirkI am an OSS user in the last 7 years. Starting with PHP which was my first open source software. I then moved to Firefox and OpenOffice. Later I discovered Ubuntu when it was in its 6.06 LTS version.18:34
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/OfirKlinger  https://edge.launchpad.net/~klinger-ofir18:34
ofirkI began using Ubuntu 6.06 and exploring the Ubuntu world. I always wanted to move to Kubuntu but KDE3 was a little complicated for me. When Kubuntu moved to KDE4, I switched to it. Since then I feel proud about the great operation system Kubuntu is, and the great developers behind it.18:35
ofirkI always wanted to contribute to Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I tried to get into C++, python and other desktop oriented programming and never succeeded. Hence, I helped translating Ubuntu through LP.18:35
ofirkAfter Karmic launch, the Project Timelord was announced. I saw the announcement on the kubuntu-devel mailing-list and decided to offer my help where I know the most: Website Building and Maintaining. I replied to the announcement and Ryan got back to me.18:35
ofirkI worked on the new Kubuntu website for more than 7 months. The site was build to give first good  impression on Kubuntu. Therefore, I worked for many days on the site structure, based on what the avg. user would look for and where he would look. Then I moved to the look&feel, trying to give a nice and comfort look to the site. I also included elements from Kubuntu itself.18:36
ofirkI am constantly searching of ways to improve Kubuntu's image on the web by building professional sites (Kubuntu's main website, Kubuntu's wiki, Kubuntu's shipit website).18:36
ofirkI am planing to add more features to the website for the next Kubuntu release. Like, multi-language support which includes RTL supports, new or at least update the feature tour and unified look for all Kubuntu websites like the wiki.18:36
Riddellwhat is the quality of internationalation into Hebrew and other semitic languages in Kubuntu?18:37
ofirkNot so good18:37
ScottKHow well does RTL work?18:37
Riddelluh oh18:37
neversfeldeand what is RTL?18:38
ofirkThere are no many Hebrew translators and RTL is pretty much bad18:38
a|wenneversfelde: right-to-left writing18:38
ryanakcaneversfelde: Right to left18:38
apacheloggera|wen: one can also read :P18:38
a|wenapachelogger: not me ;)18:38
apacheloggeroh, poor you18:38
Riddellofirk: what still needs doing before we can tell the sysadmins to make the new website live?18:38
ofirkRiddell: I already told them to make it live18:39
apacheloggerwell, I might mention that from what I know our lack of developers who use RTL systems and in general less europeanish languages is a bit of a problem18:39
Riddellofirk: ooh!18:39
ofirkI think that in the next couple of days it will be live18:39
apacheloggerofirk: does israel have a loco?18:39
ofirkapachelogger: yes18:39
Riddellofirk: what tools did you use to make the new website design?18:39
ofirktheir main field of work is translations18:40
apacheloggerofirk: nothing on the promotion side?18:40
ofirkNetBeans, Drupal 6, Apache, Mysql, PHP and of course Kubuntu :)18:40
ofirkapachelogger: promotion for what?18:40
apacheloggerthe Ubuntu product line18:41
shadeslayerofirk: like promotion of Ubuntu ;)18:41
Riddellofirk: netbeans does HTML?18:41
ofirkRiddell: HTML, PHP, CSS, JS (it is not WYSIWYG)18:41
ofirkapachelogger:  I mainly worked on the Kubuntu website18:41
ofirkthe feature tour is kind of promotion to Kubuntu18:42
apacheloggerofirk: yeah, but the loco in general, do you happen to know if anything promotional is going on there?18:42
apacheloggerlove the feature tour btw :D18:42
neversfeldeofirk: will you focus on making the website better in future or do you have plans to get in touch with other parts of the development?18:42
* apachelogger always wanted us to have one, and now we finally will <3 <3 <318:42
ofirkapachelogger: yes, but here in Israel you can say that Microsoft roles18:42
shadeslayerfyi feature tour has been picked up by kde-www as well,they might make something similar :D18:42
ofirkthis is a shame since Israel is a good place for new things18:43
* apachelogger knows that situation ... not much different in austria, just that austria is no good place for new things of any kind :?18:44
apacheloggerofirk: What, in your opinion, makes Kubuntu different from other KDE software based distros?18:44
macoapachelogger: just good for old music?18:44
ofirkI think that the whole idea behind Uubuntu to make things easier and human is Kubuntu uniqness18:45
apacheloggermaco: not as old as you might think ;)18:45
* Riddell points ofirk at neversfelde's question18:45
ofirkI am sorry, I don't see neversfelde's question, can you repeat it?18:46
Riddell18:42 < neversfelde> ofirk: will you focus on making the website better in future or do you have plans to get in touch with other parts of the development?18:46
ofirkAs I said above, I am planning to keep working on the website18:47
ofirkAs I learned, websites needs contact care18:47
ryanakca+1  for Ofir from me (not that I can vote),  the work he's done on the website is really outstanding.18:47
apacheloggerofirk: any bets on when we will reach world domination?18:47
DarkwingDuckofirk: What are areas you have seen in Kubuntu that you feel needs to be improved?18:47
JontheEchidna+1 on outstanding website/localization work18:47
ofirkapachelogger: I hope until 10.10 ;)18:48
apacheloggeroh perfect18:48
apacheloggerto ofirk and that bet18:48
RiddellI give ofirk a +1 for persevering so long on the website18:48
neversfeldeofirk: great, from my point of view nothing is wrong with focus on a special part, was just interested18:48
ScottKSome time after Python 3 replaces Python 2.18:48
neversfelde+1 for the great work18:48
* apachelogger pokes ScottK with the fluffy stick of blinking18:48
ScottK+1 from me too.18:49
apacheloggerperfect then18:49
Riddellwelcome in ofirk18:49
apacheloggerofirk: congrats and welcome18:49
Riddellagateau: want to go next?18:49
* a|wen cheers for ofirk18:49
agateauRiddell: ok18:49
lex79ofirk: congrats :)18:49
Riddellagateau: who are you and why do you like us?18:49
agateauRiddell: because you look handsome!18:50
agateauMore seriously,18:50
agateauMy name is Aurélien Gâteau, I live in France in a small village near Paris18:50
Riddell+1 for agateau!18:50
DarkwingDuckO.o *Gets the kneepads* :P18:50
* apachelogger blinks18:50
agateauI am a KDE developer, I maintain Gwenview, used to be active on KIPI plugins and like to fix bugs in KDE, mostly in kdelibs and kdebase.18:50
agateauI have been using Kubuntu since Hoary Hedgehog and got more involved when I joined Canonical DX team a little more than a year ago.18:50
agateauMy work at Canonical led me to create the Ayatana notifications for KDE, the message indicator and now DBusMenu. DBusMenu is used in the new KDE systemtray and is a key component of the upcomi18:51
agateaung global menubar in Maverick.18:51
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/AurelienGateau  https://edge.launchpad.net/~agateau18:51
agateauThe notification thing also started a life of its own as Colibri18:51
agateauwhich I develop on my spare time18:51
agateauI have tried to get some work time dedicated to Kubuntu, with varying success. For example I was quite happy to help working on the networkmanagement Plasma applet during Lucid cycle.18:52
agateauI think that's all I have to copy'n'paste :)18:52
ofirk_Is the meeting over?18:52
Riddellthe networkmanagement Plasma applet will be making its first default appearance this week in alpha 218:52
apachelogger<3 the plasmoid18:53
Riddellagateau: you've been at some computer shows promoting kubuntu and KDE?18:53
agateauyes, I attend Solutions Linux, a yearly french show18:53
agateauI have been holding the KDE booth there for a few years18:53
a|wenofirk_: not at all18:54
apacheloggeragateau: so, one year and only now you considered to go for membership, what took you so long? :O18:54
agateauI am primarily there to promote KDE but give a lot of Kubuntu cd as well18:54
agateauapachelogger: being in a delicate position as part of my work for Canonica,18:54
agateauI wanted to be sure I get to know the community well enough18:55
agateauto request membership18:55
Riddellagateau: do you have any plans to get upload privilages in future?18:55
agateauI was able to meet some Kubuntu devs at 3 UDS now, which makes me feel a bit more part of the family18:55
apacheloggerwheter you like us for realz ^^18:55
agateauRiddell: I don't think packaging is really my thing18:55
agateauRiddell: at least that's not the reason for applying18:56
agateauI like to help out Kubuntu by sharing my little knowledge of kdelibs18:56
agateauand Qt18:56
agateaubut I'd also like to be more involved in Kubuntu specific tools18:56
agateauas well as default configuration18:56
apacheloggeragateau: What in your opinion makes Kubuntu different from other KDE software based distributions?18:57
lex79agateau: is there a plan for sound menu and amarok?18:57
agateaulex79: yes there is18:57
lex79good :)18:57
agateauapachelogger: I must confess I haven't been looking out a lot these days18:57
agateaubefore Hoary, I used Archlinux (0.5, wooo) and before that Mandrake18:58
agateauWhat I like about Kubuntu is that it comes with KDE and is stable enough that my wife can bare it18:58
agateau(which was not the case with Archlinux :))18:58
apacheloggerI wonder why18:59
apachelogger<3 arch18:59
* zkriesse wonders if this is a kubuntu membership meeting18:59
apacheloggerwell, then +1 for bringing Kubuntu love to KDE or KDE love to Kubuntu, something along those lines anyway :)18:59
agateaudon't get me wrong, I like some of the ideas of arch, but I don't think it's a distro geared towards people who have a life beyond computers :)18:59
Riddellzkriesse: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings19:00
zkriesseRiddell: that sucks19:00
Riddellwelcome back19:00
Riddellwell I already voted on agateau, others need to vote now :)19:00
apacheloggerI love a good netsplit in a meeting.19:00
zkriesseI think i've been dropped once19:01
Riddelloh yes, still split, sigh19:01
* apachelogger waits for council to return19:01
Riddelleveryone here now?19:01
JontheEchidnaabout half the channel is unconnected19:01
ScottKJust remember: They are disconnected from us.19:01
JontheEchidnaall better now19:01
Riddellput your hand up if you're still split from the network19:01
=== maco2 is now known as maco
ScottKLooks OK19:01
* DarkwingDuck ducks19:01
Riddellany more questions for agateau?19:01
* zkriesse is an ubuntu member...can he vote too?19:01
DarkwingDuckzkriesse: no19:02
=== IdleOne_ is now known as Guest50774
ScottKFrom during the split:19:02
ScottK[14:00:23] <shadeslayer> i helped other new users who had problems understanding how to use their new systems,since i had just gone through the same experience,the most general questions i encountered were about mp3 playback and flash :D19:02
ScottK[14:00:24] <shadeslayer> then slowly i got into ISO testing,this was during the 9.10 cycle,i reported various bugs in the ISO's19:02
ScottK[14:00:28] <shadeslayer> fortunately you guys over at #kubuntu-devel helped me get the proper info into those bugs and corrected them in the packages :D19:02
ScottKshadeslayer: Go19:02
* shadeslayer types till then19:02
shadeslayerafter i understood the lp bug system and how to effectively report bugs i helped other users get more info into their bug reports,recently i have joined the bug squad to help out more in that area , i also help by forwarding bugs upstrea,19:02
ScottKRiddell: We were talking with shadeslayer: were you talking with agateau?19:02
apacheloggerwe were talking about agateau while you were talking about shadeslayer19:02
shadeslayerhehe :P19:03
=== Guest50774 is now known as IdleOne
ScottKI guess we should back up and start over then.19:03
lex79what a mess19:03
ScottKshadeslayer: Let's let agateau go ahead.19:03
shadeslayersure thing :D19:03
apacheloggerwe are already voting on him :P19:03
agateaushall I just copy'n'paste?19:03
shadeslayerawesome ;)19:03
apacheloggerI would prefer someone from the council throwing a +1 in :P19:03
JontheEchidnaagateau: please :)19:03
=== ubott2 is now known as ubottu
ScottKagateau: How about a pastebin19:04
agateauScottK: ok19:04
JontheEchidnadang, we must have split a long time before the split showed up on our end19:04
shadeslayerJontheEchidna: seems so19:05
JontheEchidnano wonder the rest of the council was being so quiet ;)19:05
agateauah, Riddell if a faster pastebiner19:05
* ScottK read the backscroll.19:05
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ScottK+1 from me19:05
ScottKshadeslayer: You might prepare a pastebin of all you told us during the split, so you'll be ready to go.19:06
* apachelogger waits for neversfelde19:06
neversfelde+1 agateau19:06
neversfeldesorry was busy reading the backlog19:06
=== emma_ is now known as emma
apacheloggeranyone else? no?19:07
apacheloggeragateau: welcome and congratulations19:07
Riddellapachelogger: you didn't vote?19:07
a|wencongrats agateau!19:07
apacheloggerRiddell: I did in your paste :P19:07
agateauRiddell: he did, one or two split ago :)19:07
* DarkwingDuck gives a futbol clap19:07
ScottKshadeslayer: Paste your bin.19:07
apacheloggerRiddell: 18:59 < apachelogger> well, then +1 for bringing Kubuntu love to KDE or KDE love to Kubuntu, something along those lines anyway :)19:08
ScottKshadeslayer: Arch or Kubuntu?19:08
shadeslayerSo basically as you can see i love to break stuff and then fix it,so that other users may not experience this issue19:08
JontheEchidnaMy sigh is out of context in there :P19:08
shadeslayerScottK: Arch for bleeding edge,Kubuntu for long term19:08
* apachelogger thinks that JontheEchidna is sighing too much19:08
JontheEchidna(that is when we first saw the netsplit)19:08
* ScottK wonders if a person can sustain two loves?19:09
shadeslayerScottK: basically i use arch for confirming KDE bugs ( and that too i have installed only yesterday _19:09
apacheloggersince arch is super hyp0r distro now19:09
apacheloggershadeslayer: Who go the better KDE?!19:09
apacheloggerand why ^^19:09
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg19:10
neversfeldeshadeslayer: from your experience, what can we do better to make it easier for people to get in touch with Kubuntu development?19:10
shadeslayerapachelogger: again,kubuntu has a very good KDE enviroment,but mem consumption on arch is very low,if that comes to Kubuntu,ill shun arch :P19:10
ScottKshadeslayer: If we had a bleeding edge repository for KDE trunk, would you still need Arch?19:10
shadeslayerScottK: nope19:10
* ikonia would like to comment on shadeslayer19:10
apacheloggerpfff, uninstall all the goodness and youll consume as much mem as arch :P19:11
* ScottK opens up a space for ikonia.19:11
apacheloggerikonia: please just go ahead19:11
ikoniait's only quick, I don't normally speak out for people in this sort of way but thought shadeslayer a worth while effort19:11
shadeslayerneversfelde: well.. first we need a proper medium to channel the bugs,apachelogger has a awesome bug triage policy lined up,that gets the right bugs to the right people,and im trying to implement it on my end19:11
ikoniawhen shadeslayer first came to ubuntu in an IRC capacity, he was a pain, no other way to say it, but I've rarley seen someone work with such effort to understand what ubuntu is about19:11
ikoniahis change has been outstanding and long term too, he provides a valuable contribution to ubuntu/kubuntu in many ways19:12
ikoniaI feel membership would be a good reward and inspiriation for a stunning turn around and sustained contribution19:12
ikoniagreat potential and enthusiasm, great attiude and willingness to listen and participate19:13
* apachelogger thanks ikonia for taking away a wonderful question apachelogger had queued :)19:13
ikoniaapachelogger: sorry19:13
Riddellshadeslayer: the other day pinotree seemed surprised when you asked a question in #kde-devel, do you think that was fair?19:13
shadeslayerRiddell: a bit,yes,but that is to be expected when i learnt that he comes from debian19:14
shadeslayerdebian has *very* high standards of packaging imo19:14
apacheloggerikonia: it's better to hear praise from someone else anyway :)19:14
ikoniaapachelogger: I don't do it for many - I think it's worthwihle in this case19:15
apacheloggershadeslayer: Kubuntu does not? Should Kubuntu move more towards Debian's standards?19:15
shadeslayerRiddell: also pinotree is highly expericened and im just starting out with packaging,so he has every right to question me19:15
shadeslayerapachelogger: Kubuntu also does have very high packaging standards,but not _as_ high as debian19:15
shadeslayerapachelogger: for example my qipmsg package :P19:15
lex79well, they have more time than us19:16
JontheEchidna^more patience, maybe :P19:16
shadeslayerJontheEchidna: exactly :)19:16
apacheloggerthey are into pain I hear :P19:16
shadeslayerAlso ive recently put my hands in the world of packaging,ive done some packaging for kubuntu when we have KDE release19:16
apacheloggershadeslayer: are you going to become elite Kubuntu packager or elite KDE developer or both?19:16
* DarkwingDuck makes a note who to pick the mind of when learning packaging19:17
Riddellshadeslayer: kubuntu membership will give you access to the bzr packaging archive, do you think you're ready for that?19:17
shadeslayersome of my packages have been picked up by debian,for eg : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=58071819:17
ubottuDebian bug 580718 in wnpp "ITP: kraft -- small business-management application" [Wishlist,Fixed]19:17
shadeslayerapachelogger: both!19:17
shadeslayerRiddell: yes,but i will always request a review in my own lp account first19:17
shadeslayerapachelogger: btw i saw your ubuntu-core-dev app :P19:18
apacheloggerthe application that is an application :D19:18
shadeslayerdidnt read the code much :)19:18
Riddellshadeslayer: how did you learn packaging?19:18
apacheloggerwas a quick hack anyway19:18
neversfeldeshadeslayer: you told me, that there were/are no FOSS events in india, so I was surprised to see that there seems to be a very active community http://www.ubuntu-in.info/wiki/Events Are you part of this Loco team?19:18
shadeslayeroh and also,im working on apturl support for rekonq19:18
shadeslayerRiddell: i poked apachelogger :D19:18
shadeslayerneversfelde: i am a part of the loco as in i put my name in the contacts19:19
* apachelogger has a pokeme sign it seems ^^19:19
Quintasan|SzelWe're still on membership? :)19:19
DarkwingDuckQuintasan|Szel: yes19:19
* Quintasan|Szel went swimming and forgot about meeting @_@19:19
shadeslayerneversfelde: but,our mailing is heavily spammed,and there are no events near my locality19:19
JontheEchidnaQuintasan|Szel: takes a while when you have 4 people to confirm, and a netsplit after the first19:19
DarkwingDuckapachelogger: Don't worry... I'm going to add you to my quit message so you get pings19:19
Quintasan|SzelJontheEchidna: oh well, :<19:19
* apachelogger hugs DarkwingDuck19:20
shadeslayerneversfelde: also sayakb the loco contact has since left the Ubuntu project19:20
apacheloggerany important messages for shadeslayer remaining?19:20
neversfeldeshadeslayer: ah ok, it is not easy to manage a Loco in such a big country, is it?19:20
JontheEchidnaQuintasan|Szel: then one side proceeded to grill agateau, while the other split half of the channel grilled shadeslayer, so we had to restart both :P19:20
* apachelogger fears we might be carried away a bit :)19:20
Riddelllet's vote19:20
shadeslayerneversfelde: nope :)19:20
JontheEchidna+1 shadeslayer for general participation and enthusiasm19:21
RiddellI give a +1 for lots of activity in a few areas with quick learning times19:21
Riddells/a few/several/19:21
=== jonathan__ is now known as bulldog98_konver
apacheloggerI shall give shadeslayer a solid +1 for poking me and for soon taking over kubuntu-debug-installer maintainership from me ;)19:22
Riddelllet's see if we can get him to give up that arch habit :)19:22
* apachelogger highlights ScottK19:22
ScottK+1 from me19:22
* Riddell wonders about shadeslayer for project neon maintainer19:22
apacheloggershadeslayer: congrats and welcome to the crew19:22
shadeslayerapachelogger: btw kubuntu-kde-konqueror-shortcuts was removed with last update,no idea where it went19:22
apacheloggerRiddell: Quintasan|Szel is signed up for that19:22
ScottKRiddell: That's what I was thinking19:23
shadeslayerapachelogger: woohhh19:23
lex79shadeslayer: congrats :)19:23
ikoniacouncil - use this guy up, good call19:23
ScottKapachelogger: Then they can work together.19:23
apacheloggerRiddell: not doing a terribly good job though, we should reconsider his membership status ;)19:23
shadeslayerRiddell: had a talk wit apachelogger about it :P19:23
shadeslayerlex79: thanks LD19:23
Riddellbulldog98: about?19:23
apacheloggerbulldog98: pingly19:23
Riddellor maybe he's bulldog98_konver19:23
Quintasan|SzelI would like to talk about it for a bit after the whole agenda (Project Neon)19:23
apacheloggerbulldog98: bulldog98_konver: who are you and what do you do to deserve membership :)19:24
JontheEchidnaQuintasan|Szel: is it something that needs council decsison or could it been in #kubuntu-devel after the meeting?19:24
Quintasan|Szel#kubuntu-devel is fine19:24
bulldog98so my name is Jonathan Kolberg and i’m a German19:24
bulldog98I’m going to school atm but I’ll leave it soon19:24
=== Quintasan|Szel is now known as Quintasan
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/bulldog98  https://edge.launchpad.net/~bulldog9819:25
bulldog98I deserve Membership because I think that makes clear that I belong to the Kubuntu Community and that’s the goal I want to reach belonging to the Kubuntu Communtity19:26
bulldog98my problem atm is that my network connection is very slow so it can take a time till I answer19:26
Riddellbulldog98: what did you package which had licence issues?19:27
apacheloggerbulldog98: when did you start using Kubuntu and when did you start contributing?19:29
bulldog98_konverapachelogger: I started using Kubuntu at 8.0419:30
bulldog98_konverand I realy loved it after years of windows 9519:30
bulldog98_konverbut only 4 days after installing Kubuntu 8.04 I started to use KDE 4.0 from the PPA19:30
apacheloggerok, that is seriously scary :O19:31
bulldog98_konverI tryed different distros by now (including Arch) but they were noting for me19:31
bulldog98_konverbecause I like the Debian package format and the Community behind Kubuntu19:31
neversfeldebulldog98: I saw you starting a lot of new things in the last few weeks, do you think you can manage all the work that comes with this?19:32
apacheloggerRiddell: I think he was refering to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/babeleo19:32
bulldog98that was a small Plasmoid babeleo and it’s a widget to translate words with help of eg leo.org19:32
bulldog98the issue was that the author didn’t mentioned the license of the icon and because of that we’ll have to wait for his reaction19:32
bulldog98_konverneversfelde: I don’t know wether I can do managing that but I think, that I’ll have more time next school year19:32
apacheloggerbulldog98: Does Arch or Kubuntu have the better KDE implementation?19:33
Quintasanwrong answer == not a member19:33
bulldog98_konverapachelogger: I think Kubuntu has a great implementation19:33
shadeslayerhehe :D19:33
Riddellbulldog98: what do you consider to be your most significant contribution to Kubuntu?19:33
* apachelogger smells a but19:33
ScottKapachelogger: TMI.19:34
apacheloggerScottK: one t, one :P19:35
bulldog98_konverRiddell: that was the translation of the Kubuntu Docs which the German Kubuntu Community did19:36
bulldog98_konverand also I think promoting Kubuntu at the LinuxTag19:36
bulldog98_konverwas an improtant contribution to Kubuntu19:36
Riddellbulldog98_konver: is rekonq very unstable for everyone or just me in the previous few weeks?19:36
* apachelogger found it more unstable too19:37
shadeslayerRiddell: thats a flash issue..19:37
* JontheEchidna has been a bad boy and has been using chromium all week19:37
neversfeldebulldog98_konver is also very active in the german community forum19:37
JontheEchidnashadeslayer: we have the flash patch, so it shouldn't be that19:37
bulldog98_konverRiddell: the Problem is not rekonq it’s flash19:37
bulldog98_konverflash make’s rekonq crash19:37
bulldog98_konverbut in the trunk there is an workaround and also QWebKit is working on that19:37
shadeslayerJontheEchidna: oh you guys applied it?19:37
* shadeslayer sees the latest commits19:38
neversfeldebulldog98_konver: how can I proof anything about LinuxTag, I was not there? :)19:38
Riddellneversfelde: what does bulldog98 do in the german forum?19:39
bulldog98_konverneversfelde: in KDE planet there was a picture of my (together with the whole team)19:39
bulldog98_konverand Blizzz can support that19:39
neversfeldeRiddell: he's an active supporter and moderator19:40
ScottKbulldog98_konver: Being a Kubuntu Member gives you the ability to commit to the bzr branches we use for packaging.  how would you deal with that?19:41
bulldog98_konverScottK: I would look tree times over the things before I commit them and then I would as two guys in #kubuntu-devel to look over that, so nothing can go wrong19:42
Riddellwell I like what I see, I'm just undecided if it tips the balance on the sustained and significant scale19:43
neversfeldebulldog98_konver: I saw you talking with neverendingo about overtaking the maintainership of kde.de?19:44
bulldog98_konverneversfelde: yes I think promoting kde in German is also very important, because it’s our upstream19:45
neversfeldebulldog98_konver: so you will do this in future?19:45
bulldog98_konverwe should work not only for Kubuntu, we should also work upstream, so everybody has something of our work19:46
bulldog98_konverneversfelde: yes I’m willing to take care of that19:46
JontheEchidnaI have to step away for a moment, bbiab19:48
neversfeldeso I think I can give a +1 for beeing connected to upstream rekonq and the website team and for your contribution to Kubuntu, I am sure, we will see some of your packages and bugfixes in the archive soon?19:48
RiddellI'm going to vote a +0 because I think there's lots of good stuff in there but not quite enough for membership yet19:48
ScottKbulldog98: Are you here?19:49
Riddellmaybe not19:50
neversfeldeseems not, I will talk to him19:50
* Quintasan senses a network failure19:50
* ScottK would be +0 also.19:50
DarkwingDuckHe said he had a bad connection19:50
JontheEchidna+0, maybe in a month or so he could make it19:50
ScottKneversfelde: What I saw was good, but I'm not sure itt gets to sustained and significant.19:50
apachelogger+0 sames reasons19:50
RiddellI think he should gather some more testimonials from kubuntu-de folks and get those on his wiki page and do some more direct kubuntu contributions like packaging or testing and come back next meeting19:50
ScottKI'd definitely like to seem him back in a bit.19:51
Riddellfor sure19:51
JontheEchidnaHe is definitely on the right track19:51
Riddellthanks for putting up with the grilling bulldog98 and shadeslayer, agateau, ofirk19:51
apachelogger+1 on both the thinking of Riddell and the seeing him back :)19:51
=== jarlen_ is now known as jarlen
Riddelllong meeting, sorry folks19:51
ScottKI need to leave in about two minutes to pick up a child from day care.19:51
RiddellSpec review for Maverick Meerkat19:51
ScottKRiddell: +1 the specs from me.19:51
neversfeldeScottK: sure, i know him from the german team and so I see more of his work. He should be more active in the international Kubuntu team and then I think he will make it soon19:52
ScottKneversfelde: OK.  I don't want him to feel discouraged.19:53
Riddelland hopefully everyone has seen https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo19:53
RiddellI need to poke rbelem and dantii and others for updates on the specs they know about19:54
Riddellbut not just now19:54
* apachelogger is killing items off the TODO without him knowing btw ^^19:54
* rbelem is here19:54
JontheEchidnathe council spec is done though, right?19:54
RiddellJontheEchidna: yes indeed19:54
Riddelloh no, tutorials day still WIP19:54
JontheEchidnapackaging, global menu bar, and default browsing are well underway19:54
Riddellmaybe should have renamed that spec community stuff19:55
Riddellrbelem: what's the status of Kubuntu Maverick File Sharing?19:55
DarkwingDuckAnything from you guys to us Doc guys?19:55
Riddellanything worth packaging in a PPA yet?19:55
bulldog98ScottK: I’m here again19:55
RiddellDarkwingDuck: more docs please :)19:56
rbelemI upload the first patch to kde reeview board19:56
rbelemAnd now im finishing the requested changes19:56
DarkwingDuckRiddell: Okay. :) I'll have the bugs from Lucid fixed this week so that gives me time.19:56
Riddellrbelem: can you e-mail that URL to kubuntu-devel mailing list?19:56
rbelemYep :)19:56
neversfeldebulldog98: I sent you a message in a query19:57
Riddellrbelem: what state is plasma mobile in?19:57
rbelemIt is packed now and it is in the repos19:58
Riddellrbelem: when I tried it, it started in a window frame, is that ment to happen?19:58
rbelemI'm about to make some updates to it19:58
rbelemWith the --nodesktop?19:59
Riddellrbelem: I didn't try that19:59
Riddelleveryone +1 on the specs anyway?20:00
rbelemIt was working fine to me. And i will try it in arm20:00
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
* Riddell suspects everyone has fallen asleep20:00
JontheEchidnaRiddell: +120:01
Riddellwe were hoping to look at lex79's kubuntu-dev application with kubuntu-dev folks too20:01
Riddellnot sure if we have enough kubuntu-dev folks though20:01
lex79I'm here20:01
Riddellapachelogger, JontheEchidna, NCommander: up for that?20:01
JontheEchidnaI'm here20:02
JontheEchidnagot another hour20:02
* Quintasan 's vote doesn't count but he would go +1 :P20:02
Riddelllex79: what's the URL to your page?20:02
apacheloggerRiddell: do we need 4 for quorum?20:02
rbelemRiddell, i did not uploaded the latest patch because i'm having problems with internet in my city20:03
rbelemI'm connect to irc via mobile phone20:03
neversfeldebtw. bulldog has connection problems and will be here again on one of the next meetings20:03
Riddellapachelogger: I don't remember if that has ever been decided20:03
Riddellcouncil is quorum at three20:03
apacheloggerRiddell: I seem to remember having read a spec about that for lucid20:04
apacheloggerwell, we can always derive the voting to the list anyway20:04
JontheEchidnaThat would be good I think, since ScottK also had stuff he wanted to say20:05
apacheloggerwell, lets have a quick interview and then move this on to the list20:05
Riddelllex79: kubuntu-dev gives you elite upload rights to give packages which many people will be using, do you know your limits for what to upload and what to ask for help on?20:05
lex79yes I know my limits....20:06
apacheloggerlex79: what was your worst somewhat recent screwup and what did you learn from it?20:06
* Quintasan wonders if that have even happened20:06
lex79well, I forgot to left a note in the wiki ninja about the kinfocenter issue, so we have uploaded the package without the fix.20:07
JontheEchidnathis was the problem where most of kinfocenter wasn't installed?20:07
lex79yes, I didn't deliberately uploading a broken kinfocenter, just forgot to say is not ready.20:07
* apachelogger was all confused about that issue :D20:08
lex79-workspace is a big package now, and it needs more attention before the upload20:08
lex79I learned from that mistake :)20:08
apacheloggerlex79: what do you think we can/should improve about he workings of kubuntu development / ninja work20:08
lex79in fact this time with RC1 I left a note about python issue in -workspace that I fixed before the upload20:08
Riddelllex79: why is the package for KDE 4 libraries called kdelibs5 ?20:08
lex79kdelibs5 means kde4 libraries20:09
lex79means kde3 libraries20:09
apacheloggerlex79: I think Riddell is hinting towards - why does it have a 5 even though it is from KDE 420:09
lex79I mean 4c2a20:09
lex79uhm because is in conflict with kde 4libraries ? :)20:10
apacheloggersay there is libuntuone1 what conclusion can we draw from it having a 1 attached?20:10
lex79soname version20:11
JontheEchidnawhat causes the need to bump an soname version?20:11
apacheloggerthat is a tricky one :D20:12
lex79I don't understand the question20:12
lex79if you bump the soname20:12
lex79yu have to rebuild rdepends20:12
JontheEchidnawhy would you ever need to change it from libubuntuone1 to libubuntuone2, from a coding point of view?20:12
JontheEchidna^is what I meant20:12
lex79maybe because is BIC ?20:13
lex79+1 for me20:13
* apachelogger would appreciate answers, not questoins :P20:13
lex79binary incompatible20:13
Riddelllex79: what are the issues with upload a package which contains icons which are licenced under a creative commons licence?20:14
apacheloggerlex79: what is the purpose of debian/compat?20:14
lex79Riddell: I don't know20:15
lex79apachelogger: The compat file defines the debhelper compatibility level20:15
lex79Riddell: I'm not a king of copyright file, indeed20:15
apacheloggerwhat does this mean?20:15
lex79well if you use compat 720:15
lex79you should use debhelper 720:15
lex79> 720:15
apacheloggerwhat if the archive contains debhelper version 720:16
apacheloggerand debian/compact contains 520:16
apacheloggerwhat does this mean for the build process?20:16
lex79debian/compat controls how debhelper works20:17
lex79this prevents existing packages from being broken by a new version of debhelper20:17
lex79that is what I know20:17
apacheloggeryeah, good enough for me :)20:17
Riddellooh ooh I got one20:18
JontheEchidna(It tells debhelper to act as if it were version 5)20:18
lex79thanks apachelogger20:18
Riddelllex79: what's better, cdbs or debhelper 7?20:18
lex79cdbs is fast for write a package20:18
lex79debhelper is the new way :)20:18
lex79but seems high quality than cdbs20:19
lex79indeed, minion likes cdbs :)20:19
Riddellok I need to be off20:20
* apachelogger has a nice question left20:20
Riddellgo go apachelogger20:20
* Quintasan pats lex79 20:20
apacheloggerlex79: say you want to package a source tree that contains nothing, absolutely nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h (each couple of hundred lines), at the top of each file it says that this is licensed by fluffy bunny inc. and licensed under LGPL 5 and later20:20
apacheloggeris this source tree properly licensed?20:20
lex79uhm, I think the header copyright in the file should be complete to say it's properly licensed20:21
apacheloggerwell, assume we have a standard short-version license header20:22
lex79do you have LICENSE file in the sources?20:22
yuriydid this meeting just turn into a packaging quiz?20:22
apacheloggerlex79: nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h20:22
Riddellyuriy: it turned into a kubuntu-dev grills lex79 session20:22
lex79apachelogger: so, no, it's not properly licensed20:23
JontheEchidnaquite a grilling at that20:23
Riddellso far he hasn't cracked under the pressure, we're obviously not trying hard enough20:23
QuintasanRiddell: is there a difference between these two? :P20:23
apacheloggerlex79: if you want you can tell us why ;)20:23
apacheloggernot necessarily though, I consider the question answered20:23
lex79it's not  properly licensed because there is no a COPYRIGHT file, a complete copyright20:24
* Riddell runs off, we'll let ScottK and any other kubuntu-dev review the logs and come back with a decision shortly, thanks a lot lex79 20:24
JontheEchidna+1 from me, but I move that we put the log of this portion of the meeting in a pastebin and defer the final voting to the mailing list20:24
lex79apachelogger: right?20:24
lex79Riddell: thanks20:24
apacheloggerwell, now you made me ask another question20:24
yuriyRiddell: oh! wasn't on the agenda20:24
apacheloggerlex79: assume the license is BSD, is it properly licensed now?20:25
apacheloggerwhy not?20:25
lex79header copyright is != COPYRIGHT file20:25
lex79you have to add a COPYRIGHT file LGPL 5 and late20:26
apacheloggerwell, I have it licensed as BSD now20:26
JontheEchidna(there is no LGPL v5)20:26
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: dont give away my hints on the earlier question :P20:26
lex79he says icensed under LGPL 5 and later20:26
apacheloggerI changed the question20:27
apacheloggerlex79: say you want to package a source tree that contains nothing, absolutely nothing but foo.cpp and foo.h (each couple of hundred lines), at the top of each file it says that this is licensed by fluffy bunny inc. and licensed under BSD using the regular BSD license header20:27
apacheloggeris this source tree properly licensed?20:27
apacheloggerand please explain why it is or is not.20:28
lex79if you add also the COPYRIGHT files in the sources with a complete bsd license20:28
* rbelem goes off20:28
lex79yes, it's properly licensed20:28
lex79if there is no a complete bsd license in the sources, no20:28
apacheloggerhm, I'll take that and say it is correct20:29
apacheloggerlex79: you need a full version of GNU licenses because their long-version license text usually mentions the distribution of a copy of the full license along the source20:29
apacheloggerthat is specifically unarguable :P20:30
lex79ok :)20:30
apacheloggerlex79: the BSD license itself is super short and what you embedd in the source file header is already the complete BSD20:30
lex79ah, now I understand :)20:30
apacheloggervery well, then :)20:31
Quintasanapachelogger: I can argue with you20:31
JontheEchidnalex79: and to answer the question that Riddell asked at the beginning, a few libraries in kdelibs3 had an ABI break in kde3 times, so there were libraries with soversions of 4 in KDE320:31
apachelogger+1 very capable answers20:31
JontheEchidnalex79: so they had to bump it to kdelibs4 in kde3 times20:31
JontheEchidnaand kdelibs5 in kde4 times20:31
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: do you want to take the application + log to the list? ;)20:32
JontheEchidnathat's what I was trying to get out of my questions about soversions20:32
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: sure20:32
lex79JontheEchidna: thanks :)20:32
apacheloggerthanks everyone who is still around :)20:32
apacheloggerlex79: special thanks so far :)20:32
lex79apachelogger: you are a bad cop20:32
* Quintasan pats lex79 20:32
Quintasangood job20:33
* JontheEchidna is probably good cop then :P20:33
lex79nope :)20:33
* Quintasan is next one to be grilled when applying for kubuntu-dev20:34
apacheloggerFYI: meeting is over :)20:36
* Quintasan pulls apachelogger back to #kubuntu-devel20:36
=== czajkows1i is now known as czajkowski
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== Pendulum_ is now known as Pendulum
=== soren_ is now known as soren

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