/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/06/29/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

RAOFrickspencer3: Good morning?00:06
rickspencer3hey RAOF00:09
=== gord_ is now known as gord
TheMusoRAOF: What is the kernel command line flag to disable nouveau DKMS?02:55
TheMusoRAOF: s/dkms/kms/02:56
lifelessnomodeset ?03:00
TheMusoRAOF: nvm found it. Lifeless, retty much, nouveau.modeset=003:00
TheMusoxorg no longer supports non-kms nouveau, but thats not a problem for me atm03:01
* TheMuso is trying to get more context for a maverick daily live CD kernel panic.03:01
=== aganice_ is now known as aganice
RAOFTheMuso: The daily CD panic which happens really really early on in the boot?04:44
TheMusoRAOF: Yep, and I worked out why.04:47
TheMusoRAOF: casper is missing from all except i386.04:47
* TheMuso digs further.04:47
RAOFHm.  I thought I tried it _on_ i386.04:47
TheMusoRAOF: Hrm you may still have done so, I think the reason why its not on the latest live CD for amd64 is because the latest livefs FTBFS for amd64 due to broken packages.04:53
TheMusoSo its fixed, and the latest livefs for i386 has casper04:54
* TheMuso checks latest live CD for i386 to be sure.04:54
TheMusoYep, i386 latest is ok.05:00
TheMusoSo amd64 should sort itself out in due course.05:00
RAOFDamn you evolution, stop eating all my ram.  Chromium wants some, too!05:04
TheMusolol05:05
* TheMuso pats mutt.05:05
didrocksgood morning07:36
RAOFHowbidie didrocks07:37
didrockshey RAOF, I'm fine, thanks, and you?07:38
RAOFPretty good.07:38
RAOFBarring accidents there should be no electricians coming to prod anything in this house now for many years :)07:39
TheMusoheh cool07:42
RAOFCome back evolution!  There's lots of memory for you now.  Please don't crash :(07:45
TheMusoheh07:48
RAOF3 apport reports.  Total size: 650 MiB.07:50
TheMusoouch07:50
RAOFHooray for adsl annex M.07:51
RAOFMy favourite backtrace is from btrfsck, though.  You know a filesystem needs more cooking when it's consistency checker segfaults :)07:54
TheMusoRAOF: you are brave.07:55
* RAOF is fully backed up07:55
TheMusoStill...07:55
RAOFNot only fully backed up, but I have 3 other systems available.07:56
RAOFSome of which aren't even running Maverick yet!07:56
TheMusoheh fair enough08:00
* TheMuso never touches experimental filesystems. Touched reiserfs once, got burned, never again.08:00
RAOFDidn't fsck.reiserfs have the charming tendency to find and merge b-tree-like files from filesystems it was checking, with hilarious consequences?08:01
* RAOF never got bitten by that, but it _sounded_ fun :)08:01
TheMusoDon't know.08:02
TheMusoIt was enough that I got burnt.08:02
RAOFYeah.  Data loss is only fun if it's expected.08:05
=== cassidy` is now known as cassidy
vishseb128: hi , Bug #372132 , was supposed to be scheduled for Karmic , but somehow feel under the radar.. could be get it milestoned for maverick, so that we dont miss it again? and who is working on it now, pitti switched it to the desktop team?08:35
ubot2Launchpad bug 372132 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) ""Create Document" Templates difficult to use (affects: 19) (dups: 5) (heat: 154)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37213208:35
vishcomment #36 seems to have been the discussed fix for the bug08:35
seb128vish, the issue is not to milestone it, it's to agree on what to change and how08:35
vishah , so needs design then?08:35
seb128yes08:36
didrockssalut seb12808:36
seb128lut didrocks08:36
seb128vish, we would need somebody to provide the templates to ship, ie mimetype and content08:37
seb128vish, there is also no way right now to set system templates so it would require nautilus code changes08:37
seb128vish, which upstream disagreed to do since they think letting a way for any software to install its template will lead to have every software installing one and making those pretty useless08:38
vishseb128: hmm , ok. somehow comment #36 seemed like the final decision by the desktop team or rick08:39
seb128vish, as written it's a summary of what pitti and I agreed on being a reasonable way to do that it we were to do it08:39
seb128vish, still we don't have a decided list of templates nor the nautilus code changes to use a system template directory08:40
vishseb128: cool , so is there anyone working on getting the templates list ready?08:41
seb128dunno, you should be the one telling me08:42
seb128nobody from the desktop team side at least08:42
vishhmm ..08:42
seb128to be honest I'm not sure those templates are worth the time we spent arguing over it08:44
seb128upstream disagrees giving any way to install system templates08:44
seb128once you have those users have no way to opt things out08:44
vishseb128: yeah , they fix suggested is kinda hacky :s08:45
seb128which means if I don't use some of the softwares the distro install templates for I have to get my templates listed polluted by those08:45
vishseb128: why not just hide the option?08:45
vishdisplay only when user has some templates?08:46
seb128it doesn't solve the discoverability issue08:46
seb128ie most users will not figure that nautilus can do templates this way08:46
vishseb128: its not like users are properly using templates now , let me get back to you on this.08:48
vishthanks08:48
seb128vish, thanks08:51
seb128vish, right, they are not, we just need to know what we try to solve08:51
seb128vish, ie making that system easier to use or less confusing or...?08:52
pittiGood morning08:52
seb128hey pitti08:53
seb128how are you?08:53
vishseb128: maybe you can un-assign the bug from the Canonical desktop team? and comment that on the bug , rickspencer3 and pitti's comments make it seem someone is working on it.08:54
seb128vish, done08:54
vishseb128: thanks08:54
pittiseb128: bit tired, but ok otherwise; how are you?08:55
seb128pitti, still waking up but quite fine otherwise, morning is nice since it's not warm yet08:56
pittion this part of the planet it is08:56
seb128right08:57
seb128pitti, you are on another part of the planet atm or that was just a comment? ;-)08:57
pittiseb128: about 800 km to the East of you, as usual :)08:58
seb128;-)08:58
seb128bah, that gnome-menus cache starts annoying me09:00
didrockshey pitti09:00
pittiseb128: what's wrong with it?09:01
seb128pitti, we get quite some bugs from random packages or sysadmin scripts or whatever installing desktop in the directory which are masked by the cache since those don't know about the cache which is Ubuntu specific09:02
pittibut that's what /usr/local/ is for..09:03
seb128it's hard to tell them "it's your fault, you should tell $distributor or $sysadmin to call that ubuntu specific cache update command"09:03
pittihm, third-party packages would trigger the cache update, though?09:04
seb128pitti, seems for example chromium packages from the upstream chromium guys have the issue09:04
seb128pitti, some do hack in the maintainer scripts for example09:04
pittiwhere "packages" != "debs"?09:04
seb128the trigger should work for debs09:05
seb128see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59871109:05
ubot2Launchpad bug 598711 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Missing menu entries in Lucid (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Incomplete]09:05
seb128comment #509:05
pittiwould it help to compare the timestap of the cache to the timestamp of the /usr/share/applications/ dir?09:05
seb128I was thinking about that09:05
pittithis wouldn't catch changes to the files, but additions/removals should be caught09:06
seb128but doing a touch on a .desktop doesn't change the directory timestamp it seems?09:06
seb128but yeah, I think the cache should be invalidated if it timestamp is older than the dir one09:06
seb128that's what the gtk icon cache does IIRC09:06
seb128pitti, bug #56396809:08
ubot2Launchpad bug 563968 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "newly added menus not visible (affects: 2) (heat: 55)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56396809:08
seb128as well09:09
seb128or bug #59113509:09
ubot2Launchpad bug 591135 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Application menu do not update after a program installs (affects: 1) (heat: 239)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59113509:09
seb128hum, that one is a different issue09:10
seb128pitti, right, I think the timestamp thing would catch most issues09:10
pittiand it's quite cheap09:11
pittiI guess we already stat() the cache anyway in the code, so it's just one extra stat() for the dir09:11
seb128pitti, ok, I will open a bug about that an target it for lucid-updates09:12
seb128pitti, thanks ;-)09:12
pittinow that we have gvariant, it might also be nice/faster to use that instead09:13
pittibut I don't know how it compares speed-wise with g_key_file09:13
seb128pitti, are you still interested to do that and upstream the change this cycle?09:13
pittinot sure whether I'll have time, but I think I can at least do a performance comparison09:14
pitticonceptually, parsing an .ini file is much simpler than parsing an arbitrarily nested and datatype rich structure09:14
seb128ok, no hurry in any case09:14
seb128right09:14
didrockspitti: I had to disable the mutter desktop file patch to launch it in "Initialization" phase insead of "WindowManager" one (80_no_session_delay.patch). It created bug #599506 with gnome-keyring. Do you have any idea how we can fix this nicely? (so that mutter can be started before gnome-keyring is)09:17
ubot2Launchpad bug 599506 in mutter (Ubuntu) "mutter doesn't position SSH_AUTH_SOCK to gnome-keyring value (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59950609:17
RAOFpitti: Good morning!  If you've got a minute, I'd like to revisit the reasoning behing discarding ConsoleKit as a mechanism for ensuring /sys/class/drm/backlight/* is accessible to X.09:36
RAOFBecause I'm not familiar enough with ConsoleKit, and when talking about backlight and unpriviledged X various people have said “why not just use ConsoleKit”.09:37
pittiRAOF: because /sys is not a real file system, I don't think you can actually chmod those files?10:00
pittiI don't have it on my machine, but if you have it, perhaps try?10:00
didrockspitti: you probably miss this ^ (just before RAOF's question)10:04
pittiright, I had a freeze, so I probably missed some scrollback10:17
pittiRAOF: perhaps you can re-paste?10:17
pittididrocks: or you mean I missed something else, unrelated to RAOF's question?10:17
didrockspitti: yeah, it was:10:17
didrocksI had to disable the mutter desktop file patch to launch it in "Initialization" phase insead of "WindowManager" one (80_no_session_delay.patch). It created bug #599506 with gnome-keyring.10:17
ubot2Launchpad bug 599506 in mutter (Ubuntu) "mutter doesn't position SSH_AUTH_SOCK to gnome-keyring value (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59950610:17
didrocksDo you have any idea how we can fix this nicely? (so that mutter can be started before gnome-keyring is)10:17
didrocks(I just asked that before RAOF, double hilighting should have make it disappear ;))10:18
pittididrocks: ah, I see; now, it was worth a try..10:19
didrockspitti: didn't we win something like 0.5s with this?10:19
pittididrocks: it seems we need to start keyring before mutter then10:19
didrocksyeah, not sure if we can order that in the same phase10:19
pittididrocks: yes, we did; since unity is by and large the one and only process which burns a lot of CPU, and is the critical path, it needs to start as early as possible10:19
pittibut correctness > speed, of course10:20
pittididrocks: the only other option that I see is to start keyring from Xsession.d/ and mutter in Initialization10:20
didrockshum, I'm also afraid that this side-effect can happen with other components10:20
pittibut WindowManager sounds fine10:20
pittiit'll still start before the other apps then10:20
didrocksright10:20
pittididrocks: it's probably best to do a current bootchart with that reverted change, and see whether it opened any CPU gaps10:21
pittiif it's still just one big block without gaps, it doesn't really matter10:21
didrockspitti: yeah, good idea. do you still have your autofoo CPU charts? (I only have an HD there) or maybe seb128 can do one on his spare time10:21
didrockspitti: ok, thanks a lot for your input :)10:21
pittiautofoo?10:21
pittioh, I never had10:22
pittithat was Keybuk10:22
didrocksoh, I was thinking you tried it at least once :)10:22
pittididrocks: I currently have an OEM project on the Mini, but I guess I can install alpha-2 on the thing now10:22
seb128I just start my mini there and watch /var/cache10:22
seb128I can do charts, my mini is running maverick uptodate10:22
pittididrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-maverick-20100622-1.png is not too old10:22
didrockspitti: looking at it, can be good to compare with last one10:23
didrocksseb128: that will be awesome, thanks ;)10:23
pittioh, can we start g-p-m in the apps phase instead of init?10:23
chrisccoulsoni thought we did that already?10:23
didrockschrisccoulson: gpm is in init IIRC10:23
pittion this chart X took quite long, and left a sizable CPU gap10:23
chrisccoulsondidrocks, how did that happen? it's in the apps phase upstream?10:24
pittichrisccoulson, didrocks: OTOH it's probably fine that way; at the sessino start we still have some CPU power left, at least on my chart10:24
pittichrisccoulson: perhaps it was even me, trying to fill the CPU gap at session start :)10:24
chrisccoulsonpitti - it will block the transition to the next phase though won't it?10:24
pittithere's not a whole lot of things which can run as the first thing, and gpm sonuds relatively independent10:24
didrockschrisccoulson: not sure, just that when I checked yesterday, just remember we got that :)10:24
chrisccoulson(g-p-m doesn't fork)10:24
pittichrisccoulson: not sure; if it was me, I'm fairly sure I compared it before/after10:25
pittiwe really need to put nm-applet on some more CPU diet, though10:25
chrisccoulsonah, ok10:25
chrisccoulsonpitti - g-p-m should be better in the apps phase (remembering that it also activates upower)10:25
pittiit takes 70% of what mutter/unity needs10:25
pittichrisccoulson: it would be nice if upower could start right at the session start10:26
didrocksyeah, nm applet is really expensive10:26
pittiin the first second we still have one CPU free (mostly), but after that both cores are constantly busy10:26
RAOFpitti: I can happily chmod those files, even though they're virtual.10:28
pittiRAOF: ah, I didn't know that; well, then it ought to work, although we can't use the already existing standard udev mechanism directly10:28
pitti(this only works for device files)10:29
pittibut it still sounds rather easy to do10:29
pittiwith a script in /usr/lib/ConsoleKit/run-seat.d/10:29
* chrisccoulson goes to crawl back in to mozilla hole ;)10:29
pitticleaner than adding a hack to udev-acl10:29
didrockschrisccoulson: good luck :)10:29
* pitti pats chrisccoulson onto the back and hugs him10:29
RAOFAha.  That's where the fun is!10:30
* chrisccoulson hugs pitti too10:30
seb128didrocks, could you resync mutter on debian?10:31
pittiRAOF: so you could just drop a script there which does the chmod10:32
seb128didrocks, they don't have any real change out of a gir fix you did I think but g-s build-depends on the current revision and depwait due to it10:32
RAOFpitti: Sounds nice and simple.  Hurray.10:32
pittiRAOF: I don't know the arguments offhand, but perhaps just start with echoing $@ and `env` to a log file?10:32
RAOF:)10:32
didrocksseb128: sure10:33
pittiRAOF: but didn't gnome-power-manager git head get a polkitified helper for this, too?10:33
seb128didrocks, thanks10:33
pittiit completely dropped the hal bits10:33
pittiRAOF: or does X itself need to access that?10:33
seb128didrocks, no hurry you can update later on or tomorrow if you wait for other changes, would just be nice to have it for a2 if we can10:34
RAOFpitti: X itself (or, rather, the intel DDX) needs to access it to provide the xrandr backlight interface.10:34
didrocksseb128: no, I won't update to new mutter before a2 in any case, and I have spare cycle now, so doing it as long as I can :)10:34
seb128ok10:35
seb128didrocks, thanks10:35
pittiRAOF: ah, right; i. e. pretty much exactly what gpm has to do by itself if the xbacklight one isn't available10:35
didrocksseb128: yw :)10:35
RAOFpitti: Yup.  The radeon and nouveau drivers know how to poke their hardware directly; the way Intel sell their chips means that they can't :)10:37
seb128Sarvatt, hey, interested to do the cairo 1.9.10 update? ;-)10:38
pittiso, our amd64 CD is oversized by 21 MB :-(11:13
pittiand both i386/amd64 alternates look similarly bad11:14
pittiany idea what we piled up?11:14
pittiI think that I discussed somethign like that with someone ("we temporarily need to add foo which will oversize"), but forgot the details11:14
pittididrocks: ^ do you happen to remember?11:14
pittior seb128 ^11:14
seb128pitti, the discussion we had was about chromium on UNE11:15
pittiah11:15
didrockspitti: yeah, pool/ contain more than 13 additional Mb11:15
didrockspitti: I don't know what control what's in pool11:16
pittiit's the live-ship and ship seeds11:16
pitti(for desktop and alternate respectively)11:16
didrocksfor netbook, for instance: http://paste.ubuntu.com/456825/11:16
didrocksI think amd64 should have a similar issue, the manifest are approximately the same last time I checked (2 weeks ago)11:17
pittididrocks: that looks fairly unsurprising, though11:17
didrocksit's 13 Mb at least (du -sh pool/) :)11:17
didrocksadditional*11:18
pittididrocks: is that new?11:18
didrockspitti: happened shortly after A111:18
pittiwe have always shipped some langpacks and some driver stuff, didn't we?11:18
pittionly four seed changes since a1 in Ubuntu, and they look harmless11:19
pittiwe added bootchart and unclutter11:19
didrockspitti: it was even before seed change11:19
didrockspitti: I think something takes that in11:19
didrocks(well, netbook-wise speaking)11:19
didrocksI think it's impacted from maverick.ubuntu seed too, right?11:20
* didrocks checks the seeds now, don't remember for live-ship and ship if that's special to netbook11:20
pittiand platform seeds didn't really changed either, so it must be new dependencies11:20
seb128pitti, I don't see an obvious change or component out of place in the manifest list11:21
seb128I guess some new version of softwares are taking extra space11:21
* pitti starts with poking component-mismatches11:21
pittididrocks: netbook-launcher wants to go to universe11:32
pittididrocks: shouldn't we perhaps remove the package completely and have unity build a transitional package?11:32
didrockspitti: unity build a transitional package. so, it's just about remove netbook-launcher source package, right?11:33
pittiah, right11:33
pitti o netbook-launcher: libnetbook-launcher-0 libnetbook-launcher-dev11:34
pittiand the libs11:34
pittididrocks: unless someone else wants to continue to maintain it, of course (do I remember some conversation there?)11:34
didrockspitti: yeah, current statement is about removing it from now and reupload it if someone is interested. No candidate for now11:35
pittialright, I'll remove it; thanks11:35
pittiLP doesn't forget, if we ever need the packages again :)11:35
didrockspitti: thanks :)11:35
didrocksright11:35
pitti  indicator-appmenu-tools: Depends: libdbusmenu-tools but it is not installable11:38
pittiE: Broken packages11:38
pittiany idea about that?11:38
pittioh, it's in universe11:38
* pitti moves indicator-appmenu-tools to universe as well11:38
pittisorry for the noise11:39
didrocksno, it's good to have some notes of what's happening for further learning ;)11:40
=== DrPepperKid is now known as macslow|lunch
hyperairhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/599164 <-- does anyone know what package this bug belongs to, and the master bug, if any?12:02
ubot2Launchpad bug 599164 in ubuntu "maverick daily build unknown user id (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]12:02
pittiok, the new packages since a1 account for 6.2 MB12:18
pittithat still leaves 13 MB to be accounted for12:18
didrockspitti: did you include the pool/ directory in your new packages? the 13 MB is exactly the pastebin I put there before between desktop and netbook (I think it's the same for amd64 as the size is similarly the same)12:20
pittiI compared maverick alternates12:20
pittithey only have pool/, by and large12:20
didrocksok, dunno on alternates, just looked at live12:21
pittithe rest seems to be package growth12:21
didrockswell, 13 MB is something…12:21
pittididrocks: but why do you think those are new?12:25
pittihttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/maverick/alpha-1/maverick-desktop-i386.list12:25
pittithe seeds didn't change at all wrt. ship*12:26
didrockspitti: I'm not telling they are new, I just made a diff to understand why the maverick desktop image and the netbook one were so different size speaking (as the diff to the manifest was just showing not so many differences)12:27
didrockspitti: that's where I saw that pool/ is taken much space on netbook (and I guess it should be the same on amd64 image as the size are relatively equivalent)12:28
didrockspitti: I don't say it's not things we didn't ship in previous release, just to understand the size difference between images12:28
pittiright, but they don't contribute to the growth if we already shipped them in a112:28
pittiit's by and large build-essential and some drivers which we put into ship12:29
didrocksright, (I'm not sure all were shipped in a1), but still the size difference is big12:30
didrocksmaybe, we should diff the manifest between A1 and now? (if it's possible) to see if new packages were taken to main unexpectadely?12:31
pittithat's what I'm currently doing12:31
pittiI already compared the .list files for alternates12:31
pittilooking at .manifest diff for desktops now12:31
pittibut it's by and large the same set of changes12:32
pittisomething just got radically bigger12:32
didrockshum :/12:41
didrockspitti: we don't have a manifest-like file with package size I guess, isn't?12:42
pittiI'm currently investigating this12:42
didrockswould be a nice addition :)12:42
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
=== macslow|lunch is now known as macslow
pittididrocks: wrote a script now -- http://pastebin.com/Jzt2EgDq13:15
pittiit's by and large build-essential and some drivers which we put into ship oops, and now with correct total added size: http://pastebin.com/3MU8aQm613:17
didrockspitti: much more sofisticated than the one I wrote some month ago (but lost in /tmp I think)13:18
pittiso this does confirm the 6 MB of added packages13:18
didrockspitti: I don't get why "Added packages" make that difference13:18
pittididrocks: mostly new kernel13:18
pittiit's not clever enough to consider old/new kernel ABI as "changed"13:18
didrockspitti: if I try to add them manually, the size is approx 52-53 mB13:18
didrocksMB13:18
didrocksright13:18
pittididrocks: it says 52.713:18
didrocksTOTAL: +97.3 MB13:19
pittignome-icon-theme (Δ 5.2 MB - 2.28.0-1ubuntu1: 3.6 MB   2.30.3-1ubuntu1: 8.8 MB)13:19
pittididrocks: use the second one; as I said, the first one had a bug13:19
pittiso it seems gnome-icon-theme is responsible for almost half of the growth in changed packages13:19
didrocksoh ok, sorry, miss that13:20
didrocksyeah, that sounds good so13:20
pittiso, gnome-icon-theme, samba/smbclient, and ghostscript13:20
pittiseb128, didrocks: can I delegate investigations of those to you? ^13:20
seb128pitti, there is not much to investigate but I can check on g-i-t13:21
pittiI didn't think we should ship samba in the first place..13:21
pittiseb128: that'd be great, merci13:21
seb128you're welcome13:21
seb128right samba seems to be an error13:21
seb128ship: * samba  [amd64 i386] # for Windows filesharing and integration13:23
seb128hum13:23
pittilet's drop that13:23
pittithis will already buy back 7.5 MB13:23
seb128I'm puzzled13:23
seb128I know we changed nautilus-share to install samba when trying to share something13:24
pittiseb128: sure?13:24
seb128but samba seems to be there for ages13:24
pittiI mean, "yes we did, but how is that related"?13:24
pittiit's in ship, not installed by default13:24
seb128oh right13:24
pittihmm13:24
seb128I'm getting confused13:24
seb128so why is it on the CD?13:24
pittiseb128: I only see it in netbook/ship, though, not in ubuntu13:24
pittiit shouldn't be on the alternates13:25
pittibut it is on lucid as well, hmm13:26
pittiseb128: oh, sorry, misread13:26
pittiof course it is in ship13:26
seb128bah13:27
pittidropped13:27
pittiin netbook and buuntu13:27
seb128g-i-t we need somebody to work with upstream on that13:27
seb128there is nothing obviously wrong13:27
pittiseb128: icon number explosion?13:27
seb128out of trash.svg taking 1.9meg zipped13:27
pitti-EPARSE?13:28
seb128or some other13:28
seb128pitti, they have some svg icons taking 1, 2 or 3 meg each13:28
pittiurgh13:28
pittithose will take years to render13:28
seb128they went through a redesign of most their icons previous cycle13:28
seb128so they is no "drop that buggy file from the installed list" hack to do13:29
seb128somebody who knows about icon should work with them to get reasonable icons13:30
seb128vish, ^13:30
pittiand it seems libanthy0 grew a new depends to anthy-common, which might be better suited as language-selector auto-install13:30
mclasenheh, teach the unwashed upstream artists real icons13:30
pittiseb128: and we are probably shipping replacements for all of those anyway in our own theme?13:30
mclasengood luck with that13:31
seb128pitti, I guess for most yes, but not everything13:33
* pitti looks at ghostscript; 0.8 to 2.8 MB seems quite ridiculous13:33
seb128pitti, in fact those svg are sources, they built variants from it at runtime13:34
seb128so it's not trivial "fix some icons"13:34
pittiseb128: right, I'm saying perhaps we could get away with dropping the biggest 5 if we have replacements for them13:34
seb128it's just the number of icons with their quality leading to it13:34
vishpitti: hmm , why are we shipping the svg? [they are just one canvas files , not needed for install]13:38
vishactually , 2.30 has reduced the number of icons . :s13:39
pittiseb128: ^13:39
seb128vish, we are not in fact I was starting from the source13:39
seb128cf what said before reconnecting13:39
vishthats odd , the stock icons are now not being shipped with g-i-t , so that reduces a huge number of icons13:40
seb128vish, well the new gnome-icon-theme ships 6.5meg of 256x256 variants13:41
seb128where the old one didn't13:41
vishthe 256 px is just a replacement for the scalable 48 svg icons13:42
seb128let me investigate13:44
seb128vish, well the scalable dir was made of svg and 9meg ziped to 1.5meg13:49
seb128vish, the 256x256 dir is made of png files and 6.5meg zip to 6meg now13:49
seb128pitti, ^13:50
ccheneyseb128, see your email for a message I sent you :-\13:50
vishhmm , yeah , i was just looking at that.. :s13:50
seb128ccheney, did I send an email?13:50
seb128ccheney, oh, sorry, misread, checking emails13:50
ccheneyseb128, ok13:50
seb128ccheney, ok, take care13:50
ccheneyseb128, thanks, hope to see you tomorrow :)13:50
seb128right13:51
vish2.28 is 3.6M download but a 20M install , while 2.30 is a ~13M install and a 8.4M download13:51
vish not sure what can be done there..13:52
seb128session restart brb13:53
seb128re13:56
seb128vish, pitti: right, I don't see any obvious change to win back space there in gnome-icon-theme13:56
pittiseb128: except dropping icons which we duplicate in our own theme, I figure?14:33
seb128pitti, right, but it's like 35k each icon, it feels like a lot of reviewing to break non default ubuntu themes14:35
pittiseb128: right, I just thought there were some really big ones14:36
pitti3 to 8 MB does seem a little fat14:36
seb128in fact the one I spotted before are in the source and used to build other variants at build time14:36
seb128pitti, read backlog, the changed the scalable svg set which was taking 9meg but compressing to 1.5meg to a 6.5meg png dir14:37
seb128pitti, which compress to 6meg now14:37
seb128"the changed" -> "they changed"14:37
pittiseb128: what I don't understand is why it doesn't just ship the svgs as they are?14:37
seb128vish, ^14:38
pittipre-producing all those, where we would not ever use 95% of those seems like a waste to me?14:38
vishpitti: the svg earlier were just single 48px icons , now the svg are what is called a one canvas svg , where the svg has icons from all sizes 16-25614:39
vishhence much larger and those svg cant be used14:39
pittiI thought the point of SVGs was to be vector graphics and thus you can scale them to whatever you want?14:40
pittiyou certainly need some alternatives for the smaller sizes14:40
seb128vish, we are talking about the 256x256 icons shipped now where there was scalable svg ones before14:42
seb128vish, not about the source svg canvas14:42
seb128vish, why replacing the scalable svg by those?14:42
vishseb128: pitti: the problem was they different styles used , the libsvg couldnt render svg properly.  so they are shipping the 256 as png.14:42
vishand they wanted to use one canvas , where all icons are in one file14:42
pittibut we hardly ever use those14:42
pitti256x256, I mean14:42
vishyup14:42
pittiand they seem to take the most space14:43
vishthe 256px icons wont be used anywhere as far as i can tell , those icons will probably be used at sizes 128px max14:43
seb128so why is there 6.5meg of those installed?14:43
seb128can we just drop this directory?14:43
pittiso we could perhaps drop all the 256 ones14:44
vishyou could, do that , only people will complain they dont have scalable icons14:44
pittiwe did not ship anything larger than 32x32 in lucid14:44
vish48px was the max14:44
vishand there was the scalable folder with 48px svg too14:45
vishpitti: seb128 : maybe we can drop a few folders?14:47
vishlike the /status14:47
pittior just all sizes > 64?14:47
vishemotes14:47
seb128I don't feel qualified to decide on this14:47
seb128if those are there somebody somewhere decided they were bringing something I guess14:48
pittiit just seems like spending an awful lot of disk space for a diminishing return14:48
pittipeople who like to scale their desktop icons to half the screen size or so14:48
seb128well I can see use for > 48x48 icons in normal use14:48
seb128ie compiz alt-tab switchers or similars14:49
seb128not sure what gnome-do etc do there14:49
pittibut that's why we have SVG14:49
vishpitti: seb128: what can be alternately done is we can copy files from g-i-t to humanity[those which are missing] and drop g-i-t ;)14:49
seb128we don't have the scalables in that version14:49
pitti(also, we don't need all icons for those, just the app ones)14:49
pittivish: that sounds like some effort as well, though?14:49
seb128pitti, there is no scalable dir in the new g-i-t14:49
pittiseb128: right, and that's what I don't understand14:50
vishpitti: yeah ..14:50
pittiit's like a major step backwards14:50
vishseb128: pitti: 256 is the new scalable folder14:50
seb128but it's made of png not svg14:50
vishpreviously the icons would be scaled upwards , now they are scaled down14:50
seb128I though svg was scalable but I didn't know png was14:50
pittivish: I thought previously it would just render the svg at the requested size?14:51
pittiseb128: well, any bitmap scales, just not very well :)14:51
seb128why is scaling down a png better than scaling a svg?14:51
pitti^ in particular because the pngs were produced from those very SVGs14:51
vishscaling is not the issue , the style that is used for the new icons is the problem , those svg dont get rendered properly during runtime14:52
vishhence they are rendered as 256px png instead of 256px svg14:53
vishbuggy librsvg ;p14:53
pittibut how do they render correctly at build time then?14:54
seb128they don't "render" I guess14:54
vishpitti: the new svg use a lot of blur and extra bling , that doesnt come out will with the librsvg.. for example take the places source svg , it will be rendered crappy14:55
vishs/will/well14:55
pittiseb128: I thought they are produced from the svgs?14:55
vishif you try to view any of the source svg in EOG , you will notice the problems14:56
mclasenthey are rendered with inkscape14:57
seb128pitti, hum, right, what vish and mclasen said14:57
pittiseb128: so perhaps we could split out all the 128 and 256 sizes into an extra package for people who want it?14:58
vishex of problems: accessories-dictionary.svg , accessories-graphics.svg ,folders.svg14:58
seb128I've difficulties to judge the impact and use of scalable icons but I guess they are useful14:59
kwwiiicons?15:03
vishkwwii: yup , the new g-i-t is using up a lot of space :)15:03
mptkwwii, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/456902/15:04
seb128kwwii, basically the scalable svg dir which compress nicely has been tradded for a 256x256 png dir which doesn't15:04
* vish wonders how mpt is omnipresent ;)15:06
kwwiiseb128: I agree with the idea that if we have 128x128 SVGs we don't need 256x25615:07
* kwwii reads up15:08
kwwiiahhh, if they are all one canvas files we'll need to do a bit of work (every time) to split them out15:09
vishkwwii: now everything is one canvas15:10
kwwiiif we remove 256x256 we definitely need something scalable to replace it15:10
kwwiiseb128: sounds to me like you cannot remove the 256 without doing magic to the SVGs to get the right one out15:11
kwwiiin the long run, living with the size would be much easier :p15:11
pittikwwii: that's a rather cheap excuse, though15:12
pittiwe have to drop something else to make up for those 5 MBs, after all15:12
pittiand I'm inclined to say that the advantage of this 150% space increase is not all that big15:12
kwwiipitti: right, I understand the problem, but as I've said above, if we don't get a scalable icon large enough we cannot remove 256x256 of hand15:12
pittikwwii: right, understood15:13
pittikwwii: where are those actually used?15:13
vish you can probably drop actions , emblems , emotes , status folders , and save 3.1M , but then again there would always be problems somewhere ;p15:18
vishthe 256px sizes15:18
pittiright, we wouldn't need them in those large sizes, just the app ones15:18
seb128well not sure, those are scalable ones15:19
seb128ie they go be used in ie 48x48 if there is no 48x48 variant15:19
seb128or 96x96 or whatever15:19
desrtfix rsvg? :)15:19
pittidropping 3 MB would help a bit already15:20
pittihey desrt15:20
desrthi15:20
pittidesrt: ultimately this seems to be the right answer, yes15:20
seb128hey desrt15:20
desrthi seb15:20
kwwiipitti: anywhere, theoretically...usually ont the desktop and nautilus15:21
kwwiis/ont/on15:21
seb128kwwii, will, in practice would anybody notice if we drop those?15:29
pittiwe can try and see :)15:29
kwwiiseb128: depending on which icons, yes15:29
pittibut a 256x256 emblem or action will hardly be missed IMHO15:29
kwwiivish had a good suggestion for which ones to drop15:29
kwwiipitti: exactly15:29
pittia picture of this size is hardly an "icon" any more in the first place15:29
kwwiithere are quite a few we can remove15:29
pittiI only know the Alt+Tab switcher as an example of using such large pics15:29
kwwiipitti: for people with vision problems, etc I doubt that15:30
kwwiior large screens with high dpi15:30
* rickspencer3 time to set up the team meeting page15:30
rickspencer3oops15:30
seb128rickspencer3, hey15:30
seb128rickspencer3, you are late for this ;-)15:30
rickspencer3seb128, be careful, I may decide I need to delegate this!15:30
rickspencer3hehe15:30
* seb128 hides15:31
rickspencer3jeez, not seeing the date in the clock applet is a serious pita15:31
seb128rickspencer3, you made chrisccoulson leave!15:31
rickspencer3hehe15:31
pittiseb128: so, seems we have a plan here?15:31
rickspencer3smart man15:31
seb128pitti, right, will do that change15:32
* pitti hugs seb12815:32
rickspencer3didrocks, I see you got to the meeting wiki first!15:32
rickspencer3thanks dude15:32
* seb128 hugs pitti15:32
didrocksrickspencer3: I wasn't the first to be honest ;)15:32
didrocksbut you're welcome anyway15:32
rickspencer3ah15:32
seb128rickspencer3, pitti was15:32
rickspencer3well, you all did it wrong, I have to start over now15:33
rickspencer3j/k15:33
didrocks:p15:33
rickspencer3tkamppeter, hi!15:33
tkamppeterrickspencer3, hi15:37
seb128didrocks, do you plan to update clutter to 1.2.8?15:40
seb128didrocks, g-s build-depends on it...15:40
didrocksseb128: argh, so close from A2? can we do that on Friday?15:40
seb128didrocks, I didn't say "now", I was rather asking if we didn't update yet for a reason15:41
didrocksseb128: well, most of the time, clutter update makes crying dx team. I was planning for jumping 1.3 next week when alf__'s branch will be fixed with egl backend15:42
=== cyphermox_ is now known as cyphermox
pittiseb128: I'll have a look at the samba difference then15:54
seb128pitti, thanks15:54
mptmvo, hi, it's been four months and we haven't heard anything from the Edubuntu folks about X-AppInstall-AlwaysOnTop16:19
mptShall we drop it, and invite them to ask us to design something better if they want it again later?16:20
pittiseb128: hm, both samba-common-bin and smbclient debdiffs are empty, the executables themselves just grew in the new version; I guess we have to live with that16:20
mvompt: downgrade to medium or even low16:20
mvompt: yes, thanks for following up on that16:20
cassidykenvandine_, hi! Just to let you know that Empathy 2.31.4 that I released today should have all the needed bits to turn the indicator applet to an Approver16:22
jcastroseb128: who is assigned to do dailies for shell? and what milestone are you thinking about doing that?16:23
seb128cassidy, he's on holidays this week16:24
seb128jcastro, I've the work item and alpha316:24
cassidyseb128, ah ok. I'll ping him next week then16:24
seb128cassidy, but thanks, once we get d-conf and tp-logger tested and in main I guess we will update16:25
cassidycool16:25
cassidyseb128, we are the first main package who switched to d-conf?16:25
seb128cassidy, yes16:27
seb128cassidy, or maybe gnome-games did, but I doubt many users care about settings there16:27
seb128vish, kwwii: do we need scalable categories icons?16:31
vishseb128: its sometimes used in the -shell or in certain control-center-like apps [tweak ui?] or something.. safer to leave it in16:33
seb128ok16:33
rickspencer3seb128, chrisccoulson can you guys provide some information about where the FF update stands at the team meeting today?16:50
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, sure16:50
rickspencer3thanks chrisccoulson16:50
seb128thanks chrisccoulson16:51
chrisccoulsoni think i'm beginning to dislike epiphany ;)16:52
seb128lol16:54
micahgchrisccoulson: what an epiphany :)16:54
* micahg hides16:54
chrisccoulsonheh ;)16:54
chrisccoulsonwhat is the maximum number of characters i can put in to the IRC channel at any one time (without my sentences being truncated)?16:58
chrisccoulsoni'm just preparing some meeting notes16:58
seb128chrisccoulson: dunno, I usually try to 80 chars line wrapping17:02
seb128it over some hundred chars though17:03
chrisccoulsonseb128 - thanks17:03
rickspencer3chrisccoulson you can always remove all doubt by using pastebin17:15
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, i might do that, as I'll probably end up flooding the channgel ;)17:15
chrisccoulsons/channgel/channel/17:15
rickspencer3if you do that, seb will have to kick you17:15
chrisccoulsonlol17:15
=== macslow is now known as MacSlow|afk
seb128;-)17:16
rickspencer3ArneGoetje, chrisccoulson, chrisccoulson_, didrocks, Riddell, tkamppeter, tremolux, everybody team meeting in 1 minute?17:30
tremoluxyou bet17:30
ArneGoetjeo/17:30
didrockso/17:31
rickspencer3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-2917:31
seb128hey17:31
rickspencer3alright, I'm going to kick it off, then seb128 is going to drive the rest of the agenda while I lurk17:31
rickspencer3so, first, there are no open issues from last week17:32
rickspencer3yeah!17:32
seb128;-)17:32
rickspencer3oops17:32
* rickspencer3 adds mozilla update to agenda17:32
rickspencer3alright, so next was ...17:33
rickspencer3rickspencer3 availability17:33
rickspencer3just an fyi ...17:33
rickspencer3I'll be traveling this Thursday and Friday, so pretty much unreachable until Friday afternoon Eurotime17:33
rickspencer3but I will be slammed with day 1 jet lag :/17:34
pittisafe travels!17:34
rickspencer3following 2 weeks, I will be based in Holland17:34
rickspencer3so some time shifting in terms of when we can talk, etc...17:34
rickspencer3(thanks pitti)17:34
rickspencer3then I'll see you all in Prague!!!17:34
=== cking is now known as cking-afk
rickspencer3in the meantime, please please please, feel free to ping me or reach out whenever you need anything17:35
rickspencer3ok ...17:35
rickspencer3seb128, can you rock the agenda from here?17:35
seb128yes17:36
rickspencer3:)17:36
seb128hey everybody17:36
seb128ok, so kenvandine_ is on holidays17:36
seb128so I guess that means no partner update this week17:37
seb128I can tell you that appmenu landed in UNE on time for a217:37
seb128the new version has some crash issue though being investigated right now17:37
seb128so let's move on to next updates17:38
seb128Riddell, kubuntu update?17:38
tkamppeterhi17:38
seb128hey tkamppeter17:39
seb128oh, seems no kubuntu update...17:39
seb128didrocks, UNE update? ;-)17:39
didrocksyeah17:39
didrocksso, UNE got places17:39
seb128\o/17:40
didrocksyou can enjoy files and applications place now on UNE to browse recent files and be able to launch applications17:40
tremoluxcoolness!17:40
didrocksthat means the infamous nautilus /usr/share/applications launcher has been moved17:40
didrocksall is seeded by default in UNE (as well as the appmenu bar)17:40
didrocksso please, feel free to test A2 image17:40
didrocksnothing special in addition to that, zeitgeist is used as a backend for people not knowing it17:41
didrocksI think that's for my part17:41
didrocks(no no, really, nothing more :-))17:42
seb128thanks didrocks17:42
seb128great work to you and to the unity team17:42
seb128I've been told Riddell is ready now ;-)17:43
seb128Riddell, hey17:43
Riddellhi17:43
seb128Riddell, kubuntu update? ;-)17:43
Riddell - new kubuntu council voted in, me, ScottK, neversfelde17:43
Riddell - KDE SC 4.5 RC uploaded and compiled (except on arm, still going there)17:43
Riddell - alpha 2 testing about to begin17:43
Riddell - me and agateau and ncommander are at akademy next week17:43
Riddelloh and 4.4.5 is about to be released by upstream, kubuntu ninjas have it ready in a PPA17:43
seb128nice17:43
seb128thanks for contributing to hijack the buildds after the firefox security builds yesterday :p17:44
seb128and enjoy akademy17:44
seb128where is it this year?17:44
RiddellFinland, 'the country where I want to be'17:44
=== cking-afk is now known as cking
seb128lol17:45
seb128Riddell, thanks ;-)17:45
Riddell24 hours of sunlight, no sleep for the whole week17:45
seb128sounds like fun indeed!17:45
seb128ok, moving on17:45
seb128tremolux, hi17:45
tremoluxhi  :)17:45
seb128tremolux, software-center update? ;-)17:45
tremoluxyep17:46
tremoluxBuy Something: Excellent progress this week by mvo and Michael Nelson on Software Center Agent API and implementation17:46
tremoluxSoftware Center Agent stub implementation is done, mvo is using it for development17:46
tremoluxmvo has branches in-progress for ubuntu-sso login and a webkit implementation begun for "I want to buy X"17:46
tremoluxUI Enhancements: Single-pane department screen done, alpha-2 targeted items complete17:46
tremoluxNew Apps: RT ticket filed for new archive and sync, development continues using app-review-board PPA17:46
tremolux(more) details on the wiki  ;)17:46
seb128nice summary17:47
seb128I see a new s-c has been uploaded today I need to update and try that ;-)17:47
tremoluxyes, please!17:47
tremoluxI think it's got lots of good stuff, please try it if you can17:47
seb128tremolux, great work from you and mvo and others, keep rocking!17:47
seb128tremolux, thanks17:47
tremoluxseb128: thanks a lot  :)17:47
seb128ok, that's not on the meeting agenda now, but...17:48
seb128chrisccoulson: hey ;-)17:48
chrisccoulsonhi :)17:48
seb128chrisccoulson: ready to give an update on the firefox security update?17:48
* mvo hugs tremolux17:48
* tremolux hugs mvo17:48
chrisccoulsoni am. there's quite a lot of text, so i put the notes on http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/456952/ for people to read17:49
chrisccoulsonbut, basically, we plan to do the hardy and lucid release today17:49
seb128oh, indeed17:49
seb128chrisccoulson: nice summary17:50
seb128what is "TCK" in that context exactly?17:51
pittichrisccoulson: thanks for the heads-up, and wading through all of this17:51
pittiseb128: test suite17:51
seb128ok17:51
chrisccoulsonyeah, the TCK is the java test suite17:51
pitti"test and certification kit" or so?17:51
seb128chrisccoulson: great work as pitti said17:51
chrisccoulsoni'm told it takes a long time to run ;)17:51
seb128quite challenging to go through all those changes17:51
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, something like that17:51
chrisccoulsonso, hopefully it all goes smoothly :)17:52
seb128thanks chrisccoulson17:52
seb128let us know if you some help for remaining tasks or testing17:52
chrisccoulsonthanks17:52
pittiout of interest, how much will we still need xulrunner in maverick?17:52
seb128ok, let's keep moving on17:52
pitti(in terms of yelp, epiphany, etc.)17:53
seb128in GNOME none I guess17:53
pitti(I'm asking because of UNE and chromium by default)17:53
seb128but desktopcouch needs it17:53
pittibut we know its upstream :)17:53
seb128or some part of it at least17:53
chrisccoulsonpitti - for UNE, it's just yelp and desktop-couch17:53
seb128there is a work item in that spec to split xurlunner packaging17:53
chrisccoulsonbut desktop-couch only needs spidermonkey17:53
pittiis there no help for yelp/webkit?17:53
pittis/help/hope/17:53
seb128current yelp git uses webkit17:54
chrisccoulsonpitti - yelp 3.0 will be webkit based, but will probably require gtk3 ;)17:54
pitti\o/17:54
seb128I think we will switch to it this cycle17:54
chrisccoulsoni've not kept up-to-date with that though17:54
seb128chrisccoulson: I think we will get some selected updates and get those to work on gtk217:54
seb128this one being on that list17:54
pittiah, we won't ship gtk3 by default?17:54
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, we will need to get yelp done else chromium doesn't fit on the CD17:54
chrisccoulson(or i wouldn't expect it to fit)17:55
pittiah, we have -20 MB left, no problem17:55
seb128pitti, no, we don't have gtk3 yet and we will need gtk3 variants for all gtk libraries, themes, etc17:55
pittiseb128: right, makes sense; thanks17:55
desrtdconf on the CD yet?17:55
seb128pitti, having 2 gtk stacks on the CD will be challenging17:55
seb128desrt, no17:55
desrtaw :(17:55
seb128desrt, it's getting tricky because we don't want gtk3 on the CD so we are not doing lot of GNOME updates17:56
desrtunderstood17:56
seb128ok, moving on17:56
desrtcan't say i blame you17:56
seb128desrt, ;-)17:56
seb128desrt, we got empathy updated though so it will bring d-conf on the CD likely next week17:57
desrtscary.17:57
seb128desrt, it's one of those selected software we will make work on gtk2 for this cycle because we think it's worth the effort and upstream is wanting to make things easy if they can17:57
seb128ok, really move on17:57
seb128http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html17:57
seb128we have alpha2 getting really close now17:57
seb128seems we are in shape17:57
seb128let's quickly review remaining work items and decide on what to do with those17:58
seb128ArneGoetje, hey17:58
seb128you still have 2 workitems on that list17:58
seb128ArneGoetje, do you think you will get them done in the next 2 days or should we move those to a3?17:58
ArneGoetjeseb128: consider them moved to a3, they are not that important17:59
seb128ArneGoetje, can you update the spec and move them in the whiteboard? thanks17:59
ArneGoetjeseb128: but I hope I will get them done sooner17:59
seb128ok17:59
ArneGoetjeseb128: sure17:59
seb128well if they are not done by thursday please move those17:59
seb128they don't require any archive change so you still have some time before a218:00
seb128ArneGoetje, thanks18:00
seb128bryce_, hi, not sure if you are around?18:00
bryce_I am18:00
seb128bryce_, you still have one a2 workitem, will you get to it? should it be moved to a3?18:01
bryce_seb128, what is it?18:01
seb128bryce_, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-video-bugs-in-the-kms-world18:01
seb128report for each driver18:02
bryce_oh yeah, that can be bumped.  it's sort of wishlist priority anyway18:02
seb128ok, should we move that to a3 then?18:03
bryce_yeah18:03
seb128bryce_, moved to a3, thanks18:03
seb128didrocks, hey18:03
seb128didrocks, you still have 2 quickly workitems for a218:03
didrocksyeah, the 2 quickly WI can be move for a3. I'm discussing with launchpad about how to avoid faking a browser18:04
seb128I guess you still have some day to get an upload in if you want since quickly is not on the default install18:04
seb128ok18:04
didrocksbut discussions… take time :)18:04
seb128didrocks, can you update the whiteboard to reflect that?18:04
seb128ok18:04
didrocksseb128: sure18:04
seb128so that covers the wis for that meeting18:04
seb128next is http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html18:05
seb128we did settle on targetting around the same number of workitems we get done this iteration18:05
seb128which should be around 79-80 right now18:06
seb128please try to make sure your workitems are in shape before alpha2 is released18:06
seb128since the alpha3 trend will start after alpha218:06
seb128try targetting around the same number of items you got done this iteration18:06
seb128with maybe some modulation depending of how much side work you had or think you will have18:06
seb128ie chrisccoulson was busy full time with firefox but will probably be able to get some work items done for the next iteration18:07
chrisccoulsonyeah, i can't wait to actually start working on maverick ;)18:07
seb128if you have workload issues or questions feel free to ping me or rick18:07
seb128seems right now we are a bit over the count we should have18:08
seb128though chrisccoulson count as an extra member compared to a218:08
seb128so maybe let's try to drop some items so we are on shape and have a list of things we can deliver for a318:09
seb128 18:09
seb128I think that's it from me18:09
seb128any comment, update?18:09
seb128question?18:09
didrocksnothing for me :)18:09
seb128ok, seems not18:10
pittioh, hang on18:10
seb128or yes18:10
pittido we have major new features which we should mention in the tech notes for a2?18:10
seb128hum,unity?18:10
seb128appmenu18:10
pittihttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/TechnicalOverview18:10
pittiright, those two deserve a paragraph at least18:11
seb128"The GNOME base platform has been updated to the current 2.31 versions."18:11
seb128no it hasn't ;-)18:11
seb128oh, platform18:11
seb128ignore me18:11
seb128but yeah, we should get things on that18:11
seb128tremolux, mvo: maybe you guys could put some of the s-c changes there is there is anything you think are worth mentioning?18:12
seb128like the history log of installed packages (I like it) ;-)18:12
seb128didrocks, can you get UNE changes there? unity and appmenu at least?18:12
didrocksseb128: sure, we already have this kind of modification somewhere, maybe just copy and paste will do it18:13
didrocksseb128: I'll do it18:13
seb128didrocks, thanks18:13
seb128ok18:13
tremoluxseb128: hmm, let me think about it and also see what mvo thinks; I think the big changes are still in-progress and are not available as yet18:13
pittimuch appreciated18:13
pittiColin and I can clean up the language etc., but getting the facts there would be great18:13
seb128pitti, thanks for raising that topic ;-)18:14
seb128anything else?18:14
tremoluxseb128: oh yes, the history log is a good one  :)18:14
seb128tremolux, ;-)18:15
seb128ok, seems we are done, let's wrap up18:15
seb128thanks everybody18:15
ArneGoetjethanks18:15
pittithanks all18:15
tremoluxthanks everybody, good day all18:15
didrocksthanks everyone18:16
rickspencer3thanks everyone18:20
rickspencer3thanks to pitti for coming back to help us release A2!!!18:20
=== asac__ is now known as asac
=== MacSlow|afk is now known as MacSlow
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
jonooi oi18:48
rickspencer3chrisccoulson seb128, jono was suggesting that perhaps a quick update to @u-devel regarding firefox update might be appreciated by the community18:49
rickspencer3thoughts?18:49
rickspencer3too busy shipping I guess18:50
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, yeah, possibly.18:50
chrisccoulsonalthough, the update will be announced in the usual manner for security updates18:51
chrisccoulsonjdstrand is already working on publishing hardy18:51
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, seb128 just a thought, I leave the decision in your hands18:51
rickspencer3thanks jono18:52
* rickspencer3 lunch -> break time18:52
rickspencer3bbiab18:52
chrisccoulsonis there a procedure in place for community members to escalate any issues from the update?18:52
chrisccoulson(not that i'm expecting there to be any)18:52
rickspencer3chrisccoulson filing bugs?18:52
jononp :)18:52
rickspencer3I would suggest that you prepare to watch the bug tracker quite closely starting when the release goes out18:53
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, i was thinking more along the lines of "if there is a serious regression and i'm asleep", or something like that ;)18:53
rickspencer3perhaps we can hand off to someone like robert_ancell18:53
rickspencer3chrisccoulson ah18:53
chrisccoulsonalthough i'm sure that situation won't arise ;)18:53
* rickspencer3 looks for link18:53
geserchrisccoulson: expect the unexpected :)18:53
micahgchrisccoulson; I can watch for stuff tonight :)18:53
chrisccoulsonand releasing with a few days to the weekend makes it quite likely that i'll be able to catch issues anyway18:54
chrisccoulsonmicahg - cool18:54
rickspencer3chrisccoulson https://wiki.canonical.com/HumanResources/Misc/DealingWithCrisis?action=show&redirect=DealingWithCrisis18:54
chrisccoulsondo you have my cell-phone number? (just in case anything bad happens)18:54
rickspencer3so, pie in the sky, dreamy stuff18:57
rickspencer3...18:57
rickspencer3I wish we have the chromium system where only a few of the users got the initial update18:57
rickspencer3and then a few more, etc...18:57
rickspencer3so that if there are problems with an update, they are not so widespread18:58
chrisccoulsonyeah, it would be nice to have that18:59
rickspencer3okay, really stepping away this time18:59
chrisccoulsonalthough, staging the updates should already be able to give that (on an opt-in basis)19:00
chrisccoulsonwe just don't get enough people opting in ;)19:00
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
chrisccoulsonhttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/3.6.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.119:14
chrisccoulson\o/19:14
aganicehey, what's the best way to use gtk from the git repositories under ubuntu?19:16
seb128chrisccoulson: congrats!19:17
desrtaganice: most would say jhbuild19:17
aganicei'm having dh_movelist trouble when i try to debuild glib: http://pastebin.com/7xNdhjGf19:17
aganicethanks19:17
desrtaganice: if you don't want to go through the jhbuild motions it's also reasonably easy to accomplish what you are trying to do by hand19:20
desrtsince i think probably you just want to install glib and gtk, right?19:20
aganicedesrt, so far, but jhbuild seems like a reasonable way to go about it since i'll likely need more.19:21
aganicedesrt, is make/make install an appropriate way to go under a debian-based system? is that what you mean by "by hand"?19:22
desrtaganice: it's not exactly that simple...19:22
vishawe: hi , for Bug #383404 , there is a small patch which fixes the problem , could you check it out?19:22
ubot2Launchpad bug 383404 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "networkmanager passive notification wording needs to be changed (affects: 7) (dups: 1) (heat: 46)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38340419:22
desrtthe first thing you need to consider is where you want to install it19:22
desrta standard 'configure/make/make install' will put it in /usr/local which means that your possibly-hacked-up version of gtk will be what your system uses19:23
desrtso if you mess something up, your entire system is more or less bricked19:23
desrtfor this reason people tend to put it somewhere else like in /opt or just under your home directory...19:23
desrti use /home/desrt/local for example19:24
* mclasen always installs to /usr ...19:24
desrtmclasen is hardcore :)19:24
aganicemclasen, i imagine i'm more likely to break everything with my changes than you are :p19:25
desrtaganice: the disadvantage of putting it somewhere other than /usr or /usr/local is that there are about half a dozen environment variables that you need to setup in order for stuff to be able to 'find' the new versions you installed19:26
aganicebut i'm working on backed up vms to limit cross-contamination of hacks19:26
desrtoh.  nice.19:26
desrt/usr/local may be the easiest thing for you, then19:26
aganiceyup19:26
desrtya.  so just checkout glib19:26
desrt./autogen.sh   make   make install19:27
desrtthen do the same for gtk19:27
desrtthen you're good to go19:27
aganiceexcellent, thanks19:27
desrtit may be a good idea to 'sudo apt-get build-dep gtk+2.0'19:28
desrtsince probably your system misses some of the other libraries you need19:28
desrtand on top of that you may find that you need automake, gtk-doc-tools, libtool, etc19:28
desrtshould be reasonably easy to figure out, though19:28
desrtmclasen: gtk+ doesn't currnetly have any bleeding-edge dependencies except glib, right?19:29
Z-RAY_after amateur tries to update MLT to 0.5.6 i have left without ffmpeg modules and even ffpmeg is installed, kdenlive says that some not installed at all. also it says that some sound module is not installed. i spent all day to make "lines and dots" bug dissappear (white lines and dots - was promised to be fixed in MLT 0.5.5) and i couldn't make it, even worse - now modules "avformat module", "Quimage module", "Title module" are missing and reinstalli19:30
mclasenit just grew  a cairo 1.9.10 dep19:30
Z-RAY_ng of the program and ffmpeg does not helping.19:30
Z-RAY_help me please to make this thing work correctly. my skype is "woanerges", or write me here. please, bro's, come on, i need some support here!19:30
Z-RAY_white dots and lines examples:19:30
Z-RAY_http://kdenlive.org/sites/default/files/shot1_0.png19:30
Z-RAY_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrFXr_bx2a019:30
aganicedesrt, mclasen: got those, thank you very much for the help!19:43
desrtno prob19:43
hggdhZ-RAY_: why are you spamming all channels?19:54
vishhggdh: Z-RAY_  has been set to -q  so he cant reply :D19:56
hggdhoh, good, thanks vish19:56
vishor is that +q ..19:56
=== ayan_ is now known as ayan
ayandoes anyone know if lp bug 548652 is still a problem?20:11
ubot2Launchpad bug 548652 in fedora (and 3 other projects) "menu mouse-scrolling broken, when themes enable gtk-auto-mnemonics (affects: 36) (dups: 8) (heat: 219)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54865220:11
ayani can't reproduce it.20:11
=== zyga_ is now known as zyga
TheMusoGood morning.23:32
tremoluxhi TheMuso  :)23:40
TheMuso/c/c23:53

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