[02:49] <lifeless> sinzui: ping
[02:50] <lifeless> I'm looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/upower/+edit-packaging
[02:51] <lifeless> and and https://edge.launchpad.net/upower which seems to be totally different
[02:52] <lifeless> whats the process to zap /upower so someone can link the udev upower to it ?
[03:31] <wgrant> lifeless: /upower seems to be deactivated -- I can't see it.
[04:07] <lifeless> wgrant: it is
[04:07] <lifeless>  its for a 'User POWER on' crack feature
[04:39] <lifeless> mars: have you seen 'shrinksafe' ?
[06:19] <poolie> i wonder why my dapper ppa only seems to be building on i386
[06:19] <lifeless> because its arch:all
[06:19] <poolie> ah of course
[06:37] <nigelb> bryceh: Happy Birthday! Have a splendid time!
[08:28] <adeuring> good morning
[09:02] <mrevell> Howdty
[09:03] <wgrant> bigjools: Morning.
[09:03] <bigjools> g'day
[09:03] <bryceh> nigelb, thanks :-)
[09:05] <wgrant> bigjools: This granting of launchpad.View to P3A subscribers does not sit well with me. I've not seen any rationale for changing the very explicit decision to not grant it in the first place, and it introduces unobvious things like bug #600910.
[09:06] <bigjools> le sigh
[09:07] <bigjools> wgrant: it's the right thing to do generally, however yes there's going to be some wrinkles
[09:07] <nigelb> bryceh: :)
[09:09] <wgrant> bigjools: Well, yes, but it would seem wise to identify and iron out the wrinkles before granting a whole lot of unintended privileges...
[09:09] <bigjools> wgrant: we thought we had....
[09:10] <bigjools> at least the ones we saw were not important right now
[09:10] <spm> bigjools: that comment was below the belt (ref wallabies). That is all. ;-)
[09:10] <bigjools> spm: bwahaha :)
[09:10] <wgrant> bigjools: So the +packages restriction is just to... avoid confusing users? Because all the other subordinate pages and API stuff is still permitted.
[09:11] <bigjools> spm: the series in Sydney just gone was very entertaining though
[09:11] <bigjools> wgrant: yes that's still a wrinkle that needs to be ironed, but we don't care about it right now
[09:11] <spm> heh, I'll have to take your word for it. wasn't even aware it was in Sydney.
[09:11] <wgrant> OK.
[09:11] <bigjools> wgrant: basically because it only really matters when we do commercial PPAs
[09:12] <bigjools> wgrant: anyway thanks for filing the bug
[09:12]  * bigjools proceeds to download another load of security fixes. sigh.
[09:13] <wgrant> Heh.
[10:02] <vila> hi guys,
[10:03] <vila> regarding bug #525571, what bzr and bzr-svn versions should I target to simplify the fix backport on launchpad ?
[10:03] <_mup_> Bug #525571: No locking when updating files in ~/.bazaar <canonical-losa-lp> <code-import> <udd> <Bazaar:In Progress by vila> <Bazaar Subversion Plugin:Triaged> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/525571>
[10:04] <vila> wow, _mup_, you're far verbose than the ubot<n> :)
[10:04] <vila> far more verbose
[10:04] <lifeless> it is entertaining when they were in the same channel.
[10:04] <vila> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/annotate/head:/versions.cfg says 2.1.0 for bzr but doesn't mention bzr-svn
[10:05] <rinze> vila: 'morning
[10:05] <vila> omg, yet another nick :)
[10:06] <lifeless> jelmer!
[10:06] <vila> jelmer is around ? Cool :)
[10:07] <rinze> hi lifeless
[10:07] <rinze> vila: bzr-svn trunk should already support LockableConfig
[10:08] <vila> rinze: wow, supporting un-landed fixes is an impressive break-through :)
[10:08] <vila> rinze: I guess that answer my question by implying that bzr-svn trunk will be back ported right ?
[10:08] <vila> errr, deployed I meant
[10:09] <rinze> vila: Yeah, the code team usually just take a known working version of bzr-svn
[10:09] <rinze> s/version/snapshot/
[10:09] <vila> ok, I'll focus and targeting the fix to bzr-2.10 then
[10:09] <vila> thanks
 another typo day...
[10:12] <lifeless_> _fail_ networking.
[10:12] <lifeless_> this E160 is so bad
[11:02] <deryck> Morning, all.
[11:21] <lifeless> morning
[11:21] <lifeless> so you were asking what I mean by 'trunk can be broken'
[11:22] <lifeless> I mean a few things, most of them summarise as 'not fit for purpose', I think.
[11:23] <lifeless> most obviously, we currently don't trust trunk
[11:23] <lifeless> when we release, we insist on a QA step done by each team, for many changes
[11:26] <lifeless> also, the way we do commits to trunk, we can have tests failing
[11:26] <bigjools> edge trunk = stable though
[11:27] <lifeless> could you expand on that, I'm not entirely sure I'm across everything here.
[11:29] <bigjools> we commit to "devel" which is blessed by buildbot and merged to stable
[11:29] <bigjools> edge rolls out from stable
[11:30] <bigjools> so it's slightly disingenuous to talk about trunk
[11:30] <lifeless_> 20:27 < lifeless> could you expand on that, I'm not entirely sure I'm across everything here.
[11:30] <lifeless_> 20:27 -!- zyga_away is now known as zyga
[11:30] <bigjools> gar
[11:30] <lifeless_> and then I lost the magic network
 we commit to "devel" which is blessed by buildbot and merged to stable
 edge rolls out from stable
 so it's slightly disingenuous to talk about trunk
[11:30] <lifeless_> ah
[11:30] <bigjools> we have 4 trunk branches
[11:30] <bigjools> all slightly different :)
[11:31] <lifeless_> what does the merge to stable entail - full test suite ?
[11:32] <mwhudson_> dev.launchpad.net/Trunk and dev.launchpad.net/Trunk/Glue ftw
[11:32] <lifeless_> you are in a mazy of twisty tunnels.
[11:32] <lifeless_> There is a grue.
[11:33] <lifeless> bigjools: what does the merge to stable entail - full test suite?
[11:34] <wgrant> devel -> full test run -> stable
[11:34] <wgrant> stable -> full test run -> db-devel
[11:34] <wgrant> Er.
[11:34] <wgrant> No test run in that second one, sorry.
[11:34] <wgrant> db-devel -> full test run -> db-stable
[11:36] <zyga> lifeless, ?
[11:37] <lifeless_> mwhudson_: thanks
[11:37] <lifeless_> your links were the last things I saw.
[11:37]  * lifeless_ hates on this gsm modem.
[11:37] <bigjools> lifeless: I'm trying to find a wiki doc explaining this, but basically wot wgrabt says devel -> buildbot -> merge to stable -> merge to db-devel -> buildbot -> merge to db-stable
[11:37] <zyga> lifeless_: 20:27 -!- zyga_away is now known as zyga <- ?
[11:38] <lifeless_> zyga: showing what I saw before d/c
[11:38] <zyga> lifeless_, ah ok
[11:39] <lifeless_> so *stable has no test failures modulo really unexpected things
[11:39] <wgrant> lifeless_: Right. Any issues in *stable are holes in the test suite.

[12:30] <deryck> Sorry I missed the discussion here.  I thought lifeless meant take it to the launchpad-dev mailing list.
[12:40] <lifeless> deryck: no worries,w list works too :)
[12:40] <lifeless> deryck: I wouldn't normally take a realtime conversation to the list though, for future ref
[12:40] <deryck> lifeless, understood.
[12:41] <deryck> thanks for the discussion, though.  I really hope we can end up with some form of this.
[12:41] <lifeless> Me too
[12:41] <lifeless> I'm trying to make sure we exam it critically
[12:41] <lifeless> so that its a success
[12:42] <deryck> yes, I don't mind critical examination at all.  I want it's success, too.
[12:43] <lifeless> :)
[12:49] <deryck> "its" even.  Perhaps I stayed up too late playing Champions Online last night.
[12:51] <lifeless> StevenK: ping
[12:51] <lifeless> StevenK: what happened with that lognamer branch ?
[13:01] <lifeless> deryck: perhaps we can drill into this at the epic
[13:02] <deryck> lifeless, yeah, I think we should somehow.  Not sure how to drill into it in a productive way, though.  talk or code?
[13:02] <lifeless> quick gap analysis, identify the most beneficial thing in the gap to fix, fix it.
[13:02] <lifeless> hey, so how do I land an approved branch if I'm not ex2test-ready
[13:03] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/lognamer/+merge/28574
[13:04] <deryck> lifeless, I can `ec2 land` it for you.
[13:04] <lifeless> awesome
[13:04] <lifeless> if it fails, do I get mail ?
[13:04] <deryck> lifeless, and that plan sounds reasonable.  An analysis talk, followed by fix something, followed by list of remaining items to fix.
[13:04] <deryck> lifeless, yes, you'll get mail.
[13:05] <lifeless> \o/
[13:08] <lifeless> deryck: in general I think knowing the scope of the problem is useful, but detailed talking beyond the first couple of steps is generally wasted, unless you have reason to believe a roadblock will be hit
[13:09] <deryck> lifeless, right, agreed.  I think we need a way to better connect lp devs and losas on this issue, too.
[13:10] <lifeless> s/on this issue, /
[13:10] <lifeless> :P
[13:10] <lifeless> theres a pretty good collaboration about operational issues, but significant disconnects in other ways
[13:10] <deryck> right :-)
[13:32] <wgrant> Wow. i386 build queue up to 24 hours.
[13:36] <lifeless_> jml: https://edge.launchpad.net/testtools/0.9/0.9.4 done
[13:48] <StevenK> lifeless_: I did send it off to ec2, so that's just odd
[13:48] <lifeless_> StevenK: yeah
[13:48]  * rinze waves to StevenK
[13:48] <lifeless_> StevenK: I trust that you did
[13:48] <lifeless_> deryck has done it again
[13:48] <lifeless_> StevenK: I didn't get mail
[13:48] <StevenK> Ah, okay
[13:49] <lifeless_> rinze: your older nicks are better
[13:51] <jml> lifeless_, thanks!
[13:52] <lifeless_> jml: my pleasure
[13:52] <deryck> what did I do?
[13:52] <lifeless_> deryck: ec2test my branch
[13:53] <deryck> ah, ok
[13:57] <lifeless_> I really want an 'unreleased code report' for my projects.
[13:57] <lifeless_> perhaps next year I'll shave that yak.
[14:10] <lifeless_> I really wish releases were announcements
[14:12] <lifeless_> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/celery/2.0.0 looks interesting
[14:12] <lifeless_> and with that, I think I'm going to halt()
[14:13] <lifeless_> hmm
[14:13] <lifeless_> I smell inappropriate coupling
[14:13] <lifeless_>  "/var/launchpad/test/lib/lp/services/job/tests/test_runner.py", line 410, in runFromSource
[14:13] <lifeless_>    errorlog.globalErrorUtility.oops_prefix,
[14:13] <lifeless_> for the weekend
[14:13] <lifeless_> deryck: thanks for that.
[14:17] <bigjools> lifeless_: celery is something I'm interested in
[14:18] <lifeless_> bigjools: @ the epic, lets talk
[14:18] <bigjools> yeppers
[14:19] <bigjools> lifeless_: I'm thinking build farm
[14:19] <lifeless_> bigjools: we have many things that look like an appropriate nail, to me.
[14:19] <bigjools> hellyeah
[14:19] <bigjools> we *need* a messaging system now
[14:20] <bigjools> hanging a job system off it would be great
[14:53] <wgrant> Is there a way I can get an up-to-date milestone bug listing?
[14:54] <wgrant> I'm trying to garden an upcoming milestone, but working blind is a bit hard.
[14:55] <deryck> wgrant, you mean un-cached?  If so, I don't think there is a way.
[14:55] <wgrant> Argh.
[14:55] <wgrant> That sucks.
[14:59] <wgrant> Ah, production is untainted for the next few days.
[14:59] <wgrant> This is good.
[15:06] <wgrant> Bug #601051
[15:06] <_mup_> Bug #601051: Caching of primary data sources slashes utility <Launchpad Registry:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/601051>
[15:44] <wgrant> bigjools: How is the rebuild archive scored at the moment? All -10, except for main, which is -5?
[15:44] <bigjools> wgrant: not quite
[15:44] <bigjools> stuff is getting scored up in batches to make it run quicker
[15:44] <wgrant> Ah.
[15:44] <wgrant> I was wondering why there was so much stuff building.
[15:44] <wgrant> When the massive PPA queue should have been building instead...
[15:45] <bigjools> there's not much of it left, it'll get disabled when main is done
[15:46] <wgrant> Great.
[15:46] <wgrant> Because it's... erm... somewhat irksome when using PPAs to manage release distribution, and the queue is a couple of days long.
[15:51] <maxb> How come there's never a help contact in the #launchpad topic these days?
[18:45] <jtv> Anyone know why my Librarian won't restart after an unexpected system shutdown, and what I do about it?
[18:47] <mwhudson> jtv: stale pid file?
[18:47] <mwhudson> in /var/tmp/ somewhere i guess
[20:09] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer_: ping
[20:24] <jelmer_> EdwinGrubbs, pong
[20:25] <jelmer_> EdwinGrubbs, pong