| robert_ancell | TheMuso, oh, I did? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| robert_ancell | nice :) | 00:01 |
| robert_ancell | TheMuso, no more bugging you for uploads :) | 00:01 |
| TheMuso | yay! :p | 00:13 |
| seb128 | hey | 00:13 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, there? | 00:13 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, hey | 00:13 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, hello | 00:13 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, how's it going? | 00:13 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, I had an attempt of updating GTK+ yesterday but the packaging is doing my head in :) Do you know how debian is going? | 00:14 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, out of some IRC issues and launchpad being down when I wanted to upload a glib fix that's going alright there ;-) | 00:15 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, not really, I've watched their svn but not a lot of activity, you meant update 2.22 or 3? | 00:16 |
| robert_ancell | 2.22 | 00:16 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, the empathy build failure is my fault but I can't upload the fixed glib | 00:16 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, oh, I was just looking at that :) | 00:16 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, congratulation for your new uploads rights btw | 00:16 |
| robert_ancell | yay! | 00:16 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, the fix is commited and pushed but I got a "connection refused" on upload | 00:17 |
| robert_ancell | np | 00:17 |
| seb128 | and checked the clock it was 3 minutes after "the launchpad will be down for update" | 00:17 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, if you can upload already feel free to sponsor the vcs version | 00:17 |
| robert_ancell | they like to bring it down when the people this side of the world start work | 00:18 |
| robert_ancell | cool, will do | 00:18 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, Josselin moved the commands from the bin to the lib and I forgot the compat part of the changes | 00:18 |
| robert_ancell | oh, I'll have to update the gcalctool dependencies | 00:18 |
| seb128 | there is still a bug that the gio .pc has the wrong path for the schemas register command | 00:18 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, well the -bin should work the way it uses | 00:19 |
| robert_ancell | really want the new GTK+ as there are a number of packages that depend on it | 00:19 |
| seb128 | it has compat entries in bin | 00:19 |
| seb128 | ok, gseal work? | 00:19 |
| seb128 | I can try to get things moving in debian tomorrow | 00:19 |
| robert_ancell | not sure, just required in configure.ac for some packages | 00:19 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, is there any update you want to get in ubuntu? | 00:19 |
| robert_ancell | .31 update? | 00:20 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, btw I'm not sure what should pull dconf in | 00:20 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, yeah, what is blocked on the gtk update? | 00:20 |
| robert_ancell | I think it should be ubuntu-desktop? | 00:20 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, I made glib recommends it for now | 00:20 |
| robert_ancell | vinagre at least | 00:20 |
| seb128 | ok | 00:20 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, well ideally dh_gsettings or whatever is the new dh_gconf is should do it | 00:21 |
| seb128 | the same way dh_gconf was doing | 00:21 |
| seb128 | set a misc;Depends on libdconf0 is there is a gsettings schemas | 00:21 |
| robert_ancell | I thought we didn't need that now we have the triggers? | 00:21 |
| * TheMuso just noted libdconf was pulled into his maverick chroot. | 00:21 | |
| robert_ancell | well, technically having a gsettings schema does not require dconf. You could have another backends | 00:21 |
| robert_ancell | backend | 00:22 |
| seb128 | ok | 00:22 |
| seb128 | so let's keep the recommends in glib for now | 00:22 |
| seb128 | it should do the job | 00:22 |
| robert_ancell | yeah, practically it works | 00:22 |
| micahg | robert_ancell: congrats on becoming core-dev | 00:22 |
| seb128 | I'm not sure dconf is working though there | 00:22 |
| seb128 | gcalctool doesn't seem to write any settings | 00:22 |
| robert_ancell | micahg, thanks | 00:22 |
| seb128 | ie the mode is not stored and dconf-viewer is empty | 00:23 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, yeah, I've noticed that too. I'll investigate | 00:23 |
| TheMuso | Ah. libglib2.0-0 recommends libdconf0 | 00:23 |
| seb128 | thanks ;-) | 00:23 |
| seb128 | TheMuso, yeah, see backlog | 00:23 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, oh, can you update versions? I've made it track the 2.30 packages | 00:24 |
| TheMuso | yeah just did | 00:24 |
| TheMuso | I have also noticed the system bell seems to be disabled under compiz in maverick. Is this intensional? | 00:24 |
| seb128 | I doubt it but robert_ancell did a merge on debian which was non trivial | 00:25 |
| seb128 | so one change my have skipped on the way | 00:25 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, done | 00:25 |
| robert_ancell | groan. The system bell always seems to cause trouble... | 00:25 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, I should add an update in the cron job ;-) | 00:25 |
| TheMuso | robert_ancell: Happy to dig into it | 00:26 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, yes please :) My sprint list has an item "work out some common webspace for our scripts" | 00:26 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, speaking of which if you read the meeting log there is a sprint wikipage | 00:26 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, so feel free to put items there | 00:26 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, oh I will mwuhahaha! | 00:26 |
| seb128 | ;-) | 00:27 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, not here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-07-06, do you mean the IRC log? | 00:27 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, I'm very tempted to update nautilus to 2.31 | 00:27 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, what's the cost? | 00:27 |
| seb128 | I need to check what gconf use it does | 00:28 |
| seb128 | they will likely port it to gsettings this cycle | 00:28 |
| seb128 | but they have tons of nice changes | 00:28 |
| seb128 | like a stack of hundredpapercut issues fixed | 00:28 |
| seb128 | redesigned the copy dialog for conflicts | 00:29 |
| robert_ancell | that would be a big win | 00:29 |
| seb128 | right | 00:29 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, IRC logs, yes, seems that rick didn't update the wiki | 00:30 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/Desktop | 00:30 |
| seb128 | it's empty so far but feel free to start adding things ;-) | 00:31 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, otherwise do you have any opinion about going for the new gobject-introspection? | 00:31 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, I'm not aware of anything in particular that has changed | 00:32 |
| seb128 | well they changed the abi version | 00:32 |
| seb128 | so that will require renaming our gir debs at least if we do it | 00:32 |
| seb128 | it's yet another transition but it should be doable if we want to go for it | 00:34 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, is debian going that way? | 00:34 |
| seb128 | the guy handling the gnome-shell daily ppa asked if we were going to update since gjs 0.8 will require it | 00:34 |
| robert_ancell | right | 00:34 |
| seb128 | dunno, I will have to figure that as well | 00:35 |
| seb128 | but I think we should try to get at least our platform uptodate | 00:35 |
| seb128 | and that's sort part of the platform nowadays | 00:35 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, are the gir debs just going to merge into the standard lib debs? | 00:35 |
| seb128 | not that I know no, why? | 00:35 |
| robert_ancell | I think introspection is transitioning from an optional system to a core part of the library interface | 00:35 |
| seb128 | debian created gir-... binaries on purpose | 00:35 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, well the issue is that installing non soname-versioned files in libraries break co-installability of versions | 00:37 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, do you think it's wrong? | 00:40 |
| seb128 | in any case I don't want to divert from debian on that | 00:40 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, ok, time to go to bed there | 00:42 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, but aren't the gir files matched to the so files? match debian anyway | 00:42 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, cya | 00:42 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, no they are not, /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/Wnck-1.0.typelib | 00:42 |
| seb128 | with /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.22 | 00:43 |
| robert_ancell | seb128, I'll add it to the sprint list for discussion :) | 00:43 |
| seb128 | we would need to have something in the typelib path that avoid conflict if the library soname change | 00:43 |
| seb128 | I will try to sync with debian guys on their plans for gir and gtk updates | 00:44 |
| seb128 | but for now time to get some sleep | 00:44 |
| seb128 | try to figure what is wrong with dconf if you can today and let me know if you figure something ;-) | 00:45 |
| seb128 | bye | 00:45 |
| === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] | ||
| TheMuso | Looks like LP is back. | 01:29 |
| mediacenter | I have an acer aspire 3810TZ that has an atheros wireless N built in and was running Windows Vista Home Premium. With Windows I got 130mb/s. Now I am running Ubuntu 10.4 and I get only 1mb/s or unknown. Does anyone know how to fix this problem? | 01:44 |
| jenkins | from what version of ubuntu was apport intorduced? | 01:46 |
| RAOF | mediacenter: This isn't a support channel; #ubuntu or ubuntuforums.org will be better. That said, it sounds like you're reading the numbers reported by “Connection information”, which might simply be wrong. This is likely to be a bug (probably in the drivers). | 01:48 |
| micahg | jenkins: looks like edgy | 01:48 |
| jenkins | micahg: wow that long ago, cool thanks | 01:48 |
| mediacenter | RAOF: Thanks for your help. | 01:49 |
| === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf | ||
| === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] | ||
| === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf | ||
| robert_ancell | TheMuso, I want to release glib from bzr that seb did, how do I sign the package without changing the changelog? | 03:16 |
| robert_ancell | rickspencer3, hey | 03:16 |
| lifeless | robert_ancell: don't edit the changelog, surely :P | 03:16 |
| robert_ancell | lifeless, yes, I don't want to edit the changelog, but when you run debuild -S it complains it can't sign as seb | 03:17 |
| lifeless | DEB_SIGNING_KEY or something. hang on | 03:18 |
| TheMuso | robert_ancell: one sec, will check the repo myself. | 03:18 |
| TheMuso | robert_ancell: use -uc -us on the end of the debuild command | 03:18 |
| TheMuso | Then run debsign over the changes file. | 03:18 |
| robert_ancell | TheMuso, thanks | 03:18 |
| lifeless | or debuild -S -m robertancell | 03:19 |
| TheMuso | yeah that works too | 03:19 |
| lifeless | actually | 03:19 |
| lifeless | -k | 03:19 |
| lifeless | is the one to use | 03:20 |
| robert_ancell | too many options... | 03:20 |
| robert_ancell | hmm, still not working | 03:20 |
| robert_ancell | I'm running: bzr-buildpackage -S -- -k robert.ancell@canonical.com | 03:20 |
| robert_ancell | TheMuso, how have you been sponsoring my uploads? | 03:21 |
| robert_ancell | oh, got it | 03:22 |
| robert_ancell | no space after -k | 03:22 |
| robert_ancell | bad app | 03:22 |
| robert_ancell | lifeless, thanks | 03:23 |
| TheMuso | heh yeah I sometimes get caught with debsign on that one. | 03:26 |
| TheMuso | robert_ancell: I tend to use -uc -us and debsign afterwards. | 03:27 |
| pitti | Good morning | 07:03 |
| TheMuso | Hey pitti. | 07:17 |
| * TheMuso -> slightly early EOD | 07:18 | |
| pitti | hey TheMuso, sleep well! | 07:23 |
| kiwinote | mvo: hi | 08:11 |
| mvo | hey kiwinote | 08:11 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I've made a few changes to the appdetails class in my branch, mostly just a few renaming things while we still can | 08:11 |
| mvo | kiwinote: ok | 08:12 |
| mvo | kiwinote: I have a look | 08:12 |
| kiwinote | mvo: you may want to revert some of the changes, but I've put a little comment explaining the change were applicable | 08:12 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I haven't updated anything outside the appdetails.py and test_database to use the new naming | 08:13 |
| mvo | kiwinote: ok | 08:18 |
| kiwinote | mvo: any changes you don't want, or do I change the appdetailsview to use the new naming? | 08:20 |
| kiwinote | mvo: the only last thing I was wondering about was the summary and description. they both kind of sound the same, but I couldn't think of better names to distinguish between them.. | 08:21 |
| mvo | kiwinote: thanks, I just looked over it and I think the changes are fine and make sense | 08:22 |
| kiwinote | ok | 08:22 |
| mvo | kiwinote: I think summary/description needs good doc strings. maybe summary/long_description? but that then becomes a bit too long | 08:23 |
| kiwinote | mvo: yeah, probably best just to leave it as it is until someone comes up with really good names for them | 08:24 |
| * mvo nods | 08:24 | |
| mvo | kiwinote: merged | 08:26 |
| seb128 | hello | 08:27 |
| pitti | bonjour seb128 | 08:28 |
| seb128 | hey pitti | 08:28 |
| seb128 | how are you? | 08:28 |
| seb128 | brb after upgrade restart | 08:34 |
| robert_ancell | desrt, ping | 08:37 |
| pitti | hey robert_ancell | 08:38 |
| pitti | robert_ancell: congratulations for your new core-dev badge, well earned! | 08:39 |
| robert_ancell | pitti, hey | 08:39 |
| robert_ancell | thanks | 08:39 |
| kiwinote | mvo: my branch should have the remaining changes needed for appdetailsview-wk to use the new naming | 08:40 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I'll update my own branch and the appdetailsview-gtk to use the new naming, so I won't be touching your code for the next while ;) | 08:41 |
| mvo | kiwinote: ok | 08:41 |
| mvo | kiwinote: I work on the remaining bits and will merge into trunk today | 08:42 |
| kiwinote | mvo: yep, that code is quite sweet, so it'll be nice once it's in trunk for us all to use. thanks | 08:43 |
| seb128 | slomo, hey | 09:05 |
| seb128 | slomo, do you know if anybody is working on updating gtk 2.22 with the new gdk-pixbuf source in debian? | 09:06 |
| seb128 | slomo, do you also know what are the plan for gobject-introspection? will debian update or stay on that abi version? | 09:08 |
| slomo | seb128: no idea, sorry | 09:12 |
| seb128 | slomo, for both questions? | 09:12 |
| slomo | yes | 09:12 |
| seb128 | ok | 09:13 |
| seb128 | slomo, you don't plan to work on the gtk update yourself? ;-) | 09:13 |
| slomo | i do but i have too many other things to do right now :( | 09:14 |
| slomo | might take a week or two | 09:14 |
| seb128 | slomo, ok | 09:15 |
| seb128 | slomo, I might have a go to the update and packaging gdk-pixbuf today | 09:15 |
| seb128 | slomo, I will ping you for review and debian sponsoring if I do ;-) | 09:15 |
| slomo | ok, thanks :) | 09:16 |
| seb128 | robert_ancell, you didn't do any work on updating gtk today right? | 09:16 |
| seb128 | hey rickspencer3 | 09:16 |
| rickspencer3 | hi seb128 | 09:17 |
| pitti | hey rickspencer3, had a nice party last night? | 09:18 |
| pitti | I'm sure the Dutch folks are happy :) | 09:18 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, yes, they were quite happy | 09:18 |
| rickspencer3 | :) | 09:18 |
| pitti | let's hope we'll meet them on Sunday! | 09:19 |
| rickspencer3 | though I think several heart attacks occurred in the last 60 seconds | 09:19 |
| and471 | hehe | 09:19 |
| seb128 | pitti, let's wait to see what it's going to be on sunday ;-) | 09:19 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: heart attacks> I didn't follow the game, they shot a goal in the last minue? | 09:19 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, yeah, in extra time there was quite some action in front of the NL goal | 09:20 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: i. e. they were damn close to a 3:3? | 09:20 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, correct | 09:20 |
| pitti | hehe | 09:20 |
| rickspencer3 | one good shot would have equalized | 09:20 |
| and471 | pitti, the uruguayans were going at them crazy, and 3 mins of extra time stretched into 4 and a half :) | 09:21 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm supposed to be on a train to Brussels atm | 09:21 |
| rickspencer3 | but someone used the tracks to do themselves in | 09:21 |
| rickspencer3 | :( | 09:21 |
| rickspencer3 | so my train was canceled | 09:21 |
| pitti | urgh | 09:21 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: but that usually takes just an hour or two to settle; got some urgent appointments? | 09:22 |
| rickspencer3 | pitti, yeah, I needed to transfer to EuroStar | 09:22 |
| rickspencer3 | so would have missed my train there, etc... | 09:22 |
| rickspencer3 | so I hit the reset button, will try again later | 09:22 |
| rickspencer3 | or maybe next week, even | 09:23 |
| === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan | ||
| mvo | kiwinote: let me know when you feel I should merge the apdetails-gtk branch, I think the other bits are ready | 09:56 |
| mvo | kiwinote: I split the webkit stuff into appdetailsview_webkit now, so it should be easy | 09:58 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I've just finished updating the appdetailsview-gtk file, I've still got to update some of the code in the application.py (eg the pkg_state stuff) before appdetailsview-gtk will work nicely | 09:58 |
| mvo | kiwinote: ok, thanks. no worries, just ping me :) | 09:58 |
| === DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow | ||
| and471 | mvo, could I ask why you are not using webkit in software-center anymore? (sorry for asking twice, my pc crashed) | 10:38 |
| mvo | and471: hello, there were some integration and a11y issues, but mostly because mmcg wrote a super-beautiful gtk version of the category view widget | 10:40 |
| mvo | and471: I am still fond of webkit and think its a good way to make beautiful UIs without too much work | 10:41 |
| and471 | mvo, the reason I ask is that I am creating this http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/introducing-the-wasiliana-mail-client/ | 10:41 |
| and471 | my first idea was to use webkit to create the UI | 10:41 |
| mvo | and471: but matthew decided to go the extra mile (that is rquired with gtk) | 10:41 |
| and471 | but now wx-toolkit has come to my attention (toolkit in clutter, used by meego) | 10:41 |
| and471 | mvo, I was wondering which would be better | 10:42 |
| mvo | and471: nice! I think you will still need webkit to display the html mails | 10:42 |
| and471 | mvo, yeah, | 10:42 |
| and471 | mvo, it was whther to just use for the email, or for the whole app | 10:42 |
| mvo | and471: I think it depends a bit, I personally think it much easier to find html hackers than people implementing gtk widgets | 10:42 |
| mvo | and471: but gtk feels snappier and is better integrated (at least currently) | 10:42 |
| and471 | mvo, hmmm, there is my dilemna :) | 10:43 |
| mvo | and471: I would design a abstract class and implement the html version first | 10:43 |
| and471 | mvo, did you encounter any performance issues with webkit? | 10:43 |
| mvo | and471: and then you can experiment with gtk/webkit/clutter | 10:43 |
| and471 | mvo, and allow for a mx-toolkit version :) | 10:43 |
| and471 | mvo, the project I am working on is designed for netbooks, and if there any performance issues, then there is no point my using webkit | 10:44 |
| mvo | and471: no real performance issues, but in order to be sure that the page is rendered before executing JS it feels on some place not as snappy as with native gtk | 10:44 |
| mvo | and471: I think this problems can be solved by more careful work on the html/JS, not a big deal IMO | 10:45 |
| and471 | mvo, the one thing good thing about mx-toolkit in relation to webkit, is that it can be styled with CSS also :) | 10:45 |
| mvo | and471: cool! | 10:45 |
| and471 | mvo, mx-toolkit is based on clutter, does clutter require compositing? | 10:46 |
| and471 | mvo, :) | 10:46 |
| mvo | and471: I quite like webkit still, without matthew I still would use it, but he does such beautiful work on the native widgets that its just too good :) | 10:46 |
| and471 | mvo, I branched a recent version and it did look good :) | 10:46 |
| mvo | and471: yes, clutter requires compositing. we were thinking about using it as well, but that makes other stuff more difficult | 10:46 |
| and471 | mvo, so by using mx-toolkit, would that be limiting my audience, and how does clutter run on netbooks (i.e. well or not) | 10:47 |
| and471 | mvo, sorry for these questions, you are just the most experienced person that I know well | 10:47 |
| mvo | and471: netbooks should be fine, its really stuff like nvidia without nvidia-glx that is problematic | 10:48 |
| mvo | and471: compiz runs fine on netbooks, once HW acceleration is availalbe you should be fine | 10:48 |
| and471 | mvo, well I shall continue work on my other project and speak to the lead dev later (hopefully) to see if he has any more advice | 10:49 |
| and471 | mvo, thanks for your help | 10:49 |
| mvo | and471: have fun! and of course we always have open arms in software-center for you as well :) | 10:49 |
| and471 | mvo, :) maybe a bit later :) | 10:50 |
| mvo | sure .) | 10:54 |
| and471 | mvo, see ya | 10:58 |
| and471 | what is the best way to have a patch in a deb, that only applies to the desktop edition? (in this case, a change to the default /etc/sudoers files if installling desktop edition) | 11:05 |
| Laney | how come glib2.0 doesn't have a build record for sparc? | 11:06 |
| and471 | seb128, pitti ^ could you have a look? | 11:07 |
| seb128 | and471, to what? glib? | 11:07 |
| and471 | and471, no my comment | 11:08 |
| seb128 | Laney, I guess it's a lamont question | 11:08 |
| and471 | seb128, what is the best way to have a patch in a deb, that only applies to the desktop edition? (in this case, a change to the default /etc/sudoers files if installling desktop edition) | 11:08 |
| Laney | seb128: ok | 11:08 |
| seb128 | Laney, I think it's taking the buildds down for some reason | 11:08 |
| seb128 | so lamont set it in an ignore list or something until that sorted | 11:09 |
| seb128 | and471, don't? | 11:09 |
| and471 | seb128, :) | 11:09 |
| and471 | seb128, in this case it kinda needs to be | 11:09 |
| seb128 | and471, there is no way to apply something only to the desktop edition since the same deb is used on all editions | 11:09 |
| seb128 | and471, what are you trying to do? | 11:10 |
| and471 | seb128, it is about showing visual feedback with sudo - but only on the desktop | 11:10 |
| and471 | (i.e. asterisks) | 11:10 |
| seb128 | and471, change whatever is building your images to tweak it | 11:10 |
| seb128 | why do people care so much about sudo on the desktop | 11:10 |
| and471 | seb128, there are about 100 comments on the bug report, vish asked me to see how it could be implemented | 11:11 |
| seb128 | and471, that change is not likely to ever go in ubuntu | 11:11 |
| and471 | seb128, hey don't shoot the messenger | 11:11 |
| seb128 | it's arguably a security issue | 11:11 |
| seb128 | well that has been discussed several times | 11:11 |
| Laney | use the new "Opinion" status for the bug :) | 11:11 |
| and471 | Laney, :) | 11:12 |
| seb128 | sudo is a command line poweruser thing | 11:12 |
| seb128 | we will not set different behaviour depending of what you are using it | 11:12 |
| seb128 | no normal desktop user should see a sudo prompt anyway | 11:12 |
| and471 | seb128, I think the overall opinion of the bug report was that the server team don't want it, but the deisgn team do, and the server team said the deisgn team can | 11:12 |
| pitti | and471: you can't apply that to sudo, you'd have to modify suders in ubiquity | 11:12 |
| pitti | I'm not sure whether ubiquity already modifies sudoers in some way | 11:13 |
| vish | pitti: i'll take blame :D , wanted and471 to get a working patch ;) | 11:13 |
| and471 | pitti, so would that be the 'least hacky' of the hacky ways? | 11:13 |
| pitti | but it'd still be inconsistent | 11:13 |
| seb128 | why do design team care so much about command lines? | 11:13 |
| seb128 | shouldn't we improve the desktop rather | 11:13 |
| pitti | and471: honestly? fix our documentation to use gksu or pkexec instead of sudo | 11:13 |
| seb128 | what pitti said | 11:14 |
| vish | pitti: which is easier ? fix every documentation or.. ? | 11:14 |
| pitti | and471: the next best thing, change ubiquity to set the pwfeedback option in sudoers | 11:14 |
| seb128 | why should any normal user run sudo | 11:14 |
| rickspencer3 | what's the bug #? | 11:14 |
| and471 | pitti, ok | 11:14 |
| vish | rickspencer3: bug #194472 | 11:14 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 194472 in sudo (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback (affects: 7) (dups: 2) (heat: 26)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472 | 11:14 |
| pitti | I tried it here locally, and it works rwell | 11:14 |
| rickspencer3 | uh | 11:14 |
| * and471 can feel a heated debate coming on.... | 11:14 | |
| rickspencer3 | I think passwords have worked that way in unix for ... | 11:14 |
| rickspencer3 | uh .., | 11:14 |
| rickspencer3 | ever? | 11:15 |
| seb128 | the debate has already happened on several iteration | 11:15 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, yes, displaying visual feedback on the number of chars is sort of a security concern for some users | 11:15 |
| seb128 | some command line users rather let's say ;-) | 11:15 |
| vish | rickspencer3: yes , but we can improve the situation for new users who get confused , for example http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=214393 | 11:15 |
| seb128 | I would be in the opinion of leaving the command line as it is | 11:15 |
| rickspencer3 | uh | 11:16 |
| and471 | seb128, (it deso remove the asterisks after you have pressed enter, but yes, some users still feel it is a risk) | 11:16 |
| seb128 | the real question is why forum recommends using sudo | 11:16 |
| and471 | *does | 11:16 |
| vish | rickspencer3: or > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sound-juicer/+question/2046 , they dont really understand why it is happening | 11:16 |
| seb128 | rather than gksudo or equivalent | 11:16 |
| rickspencer3 | wow, I can't imagine we would touch tried and true command line behavior | 11:16 |
| and471 | seb128, IIRC there are some commands which gksudo doesn't run with | 11:16 |
| vish | rickspencer3: its a small preference , which can be reverted for a user who does not like it | 11:17 |
| seb128 | it would be a bug and we should fix it then | 11:17 |
| rickspencer3 | vish, preferences = unpredictability and code complexity | 11:17 |
| vish | rickspencer3: it is already there | 11:17 |
| seb128 | don't we have real desktop issues to work on? | 11:17 |
| * rickspencer3 stays out of it | 11:17 | |
| seb128 | rather than trying to change the way the command line is working since the stone age or so? | 11:17 |
| vish | rickspencer3: its just an extra word in thesudoers file ;) | 11:18 |
| * seb128 as well | 11:18 | |
| seb128 | we shouldn't lower our standards just because some dumb users write buggy recommendations on forums for other users | 11:18 |
| pitti | My biggest concern is that this wouldn't help at all | 11:19 |
| pitti | since on most boxes you'd still see no password, just on new maverick desktop installs | 11:19 |
| pitti | we can't magically and retroactively fix the world | 11:19 |
| vish | but we can prevent new users from not being confused :) | 11:20 |
| rickspencer3 | vish, why are "new" users using sudo on the cli? | 11:20 |
| pitti | and if we do that, I'm already seeing the next guy coming along and wanting the same for ssh | 11:20 |
| rickspencer3 | and if this confuses them, then it's the least of our worries | 11:20 |
| seb128 | right, let's address this | 11:20 |
| pitti | that's just how the CLI works *shrug* | 11:20 |
| and471 | the trouble with the bug is that no one wants to get involved, they keep handing it to the next person | 11:20 |
| vish | yeah :s | 11:21 |
| seb128 | the trouble is why would you want to change how the command line work | 11:21 |
| pitti | (and it gets way more attention than it deserves, really, FWIW) | 11:21 |
| seb128 | just don't direct normal desktop users to it | 11:21 |
| rickspencer3 | what needs to be done if we want to keep the current "no asterix" behavior? | 11:21 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: nothing | 11:21 |
| and471 | rickspencer3, nothing | 11:21 |
| rickspencer3 | nothing is a good amount of work to take on | 11:21 |
| seb128 | ;-) | 11:21 |
| vish | ;p | 11:21 |
| and471 | rickspencer3, if we want asterisks, we need a one line debdiff that changes one word | 11:22 |
| and471 | rickspencer3, hehe | 11:22 |
| rickspencer3 | but we don't want asterixes | 11:22 |
| pitti | and471: not quite | 11:22 |
| rickspencer3 | at least I don't | 11:22 |
| seb128 | and471, it would change sudo | 11:22 |
| pitti | and471: you need some code in ubiquity to add it to an existing sudoers | 11:22 |
| vish | rickspencer3: it can be reverted if someone doesnt :) | 11:22 |
| seb128 | and471, next you get that with ssh and other prompts as well | 11:22 |
| and471 | pitti, yeah sorry, for just desktop it might be a few more lines :p | 11:22 |
| pitti | and471: and then update tons of documentation to account for both cases (asterisks and none) and explain the difference | 11:22 |
| rickspencer3 | command lines have certain tried and true behaviors and I don't see a good reason for Ubuntu to deviate | 11:22 |
| seb128 | vish, you adress the issue with one command only though | 11:22 |
| seb128 | su still works without * | 11:23 |
| seb128 | ssh still works... | 11:23 |
| seb128 | etc | 11:23 |
| vish | rickspencer3: upstream fixed the bug mainly becaused be requested and now we are not using it :( | 11:23 |
| rickspencer3 | the bug comments say that usability = asterix, and security = balnk | 11:23 |
| vish | seb128: i agree :) | 11:23 |
| pitti | rickspencer3: I think we can ignore the security part here; my concerns are about consistency and existing documentation | 11:23 |
| rickspencer3 | I don;t agree | 11:23 |
| vish | s/be/we | 11:23 |
| seb128 | we didn't reply to why we bring those users to a command line to start | 11:23 |
| rickspencer3 | Don Norman says that if all else fails, standardize | 11:24 |
| rickspencer3 | I think deviating from standard behavior here will do more harm than good | 11:24 |
| rickspencer3 | ok | 11:24 |
| rickspencer3 | that's my $.02 | 11:24 |
| * rickspencer3 backs out again | 11:24 | |
| seb128 | same 0.2 | 11:24 |
| vish | seb128: often hardware dont work and there needs tweaking.. we resort to these commands.. | 11:24 |
| seb128 | I don't support the change and I will not contribute to any move to that direction | 11:24 |
| * pitti goes back to fixing upower bugs | 11:24 | |
| vish | hmm.. | 11:24 |
| rickspencer3 | ouch | 11:24 |
| * seb128 goes back to backport nautilus hundredpapercut bugfixes | 11:25 | |
| pitti | vish: gksu/pkexec FTW | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | vish ... | 11:25 |
| seb128 | things which will really improve our desktop | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm sorry if we're coming off as not being appreciative of your efforts | 11:25 |
| and471 | seb128, pitti hey come on guys, don't get down on vish, he is only trying to help | 11:25 |
| rickspencer3 | we definately love you and your contributions are invaluable | 11:25 |
| seb128 | and471, it's not against vish | 11:26 |
| seb128 | he's doing great work | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | and471, trying to make that point now | 11:26 |
| seb128 | and I'm working right now on backporting nautilus changes for bugs he got fixed upstream | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | in fact, i don't think anyone is blocking the * thing | 11:26 |
| seb128 | but you need to pick your battles | 11:26 |
| seb128 | changing the command line is an hard battle for little win since that's not something users should have to use | 11:26 |
| and471 | seb128, I realise that, it just when you say I am off to do more important work, it sounds as if you are devaluing his work | 11:26 |
| rickspencer3 | so, for the record, vish == totally awesome | 11:26 |
| and471 | cool | 11:26 |
| seb128 | and471, as said you need to pick battles | 11:27 |
| rickspencer3 | I think we all know what seb128 meant | 11:27 |
| vish | ;) | 11:27 |
| and471 | seb128, not a battle, just a comment | 11:27 |
| seb128 | and471, I've expressed my opinion on the sudo change | 11:27 |
| and471 | right lets all cool off... :D | 11:27 |
| seb128 | I don't know anybody is heated there | 11:27 |
| seb128 | sorry if that came wrongly | 11:27 |
| pitti | and471, vish: I'm not "getting down" on vish, sorry if I came across like that; I just don't like that particular idea, but I still do like vish | 11:28 |
| seb128 | but I think we all expressed our opinions and have to agree to disagree | 11:28 |
| * pitti hugs everyone | 11:28 | |
| * vish didnt take it personally too :) | 11:28 | |
| seb128 | vish is doing great work and lot of hundredpapercut bugs will be fixed thanks to him | 11:28 |
| pitti | (and shiny icons!) | 11:28 |
| seb128 | I just don't want to be involved in that sudo change | 11:28 |
| * and471 accepts the hugs :) | 11:28 | |
| seb128 | ;-) | 11:28 |
| and471 | okay, in 10 secs we have gone from heated to loveydovey :D | 11:29 |
| seb128 | hehe | 11:29 |
| vish | just funny seeing it is tough to make hackers think different ;p | 11:29 |
| seb128 | I don't think anybody was heated, sorry if that came wrongly | 11:29 |
| seb128 | I just things we have strong opinions and we are not ready to be convinced it's where we want to go | 11:29 |
| and471 | seb128, np, as I said it is a limitation of IRC, when speaking in real life, facial expressions etc. affect tone | 11:29 |
| rickspencer3 | and471, well, it's good to call people on it if you think someone is out of line ... so you did the right thing | 11:30 |
| rickspencer3 | we need to keep #u-desktop a good place to be | 11:31 |
| and471 | keep everything hunkydory... | 11:31 |
| vish | rickspencer3: pitti: seb128: i do understand that the sudo commands being given out are wrong , but my final take on this is that: this was something we[i] could help solve within our powers than trying to convince every person on the planet to not mention sudo :) | 11:32 |
| rickspencer3 | vish, tbh, I think using the cli to help people is *good* | 11:33 |
| rickspencer3 | in some limited circumstances | 11:33 |
| seb128 | vish, and471: but changing sudo doesn't fix the issue | 11:34 |
| seb128 | it would just make the sudo on modern ubuntu different from upgrades | 11:34 |
| seb128 | or from su or vt login or ssh or zillion other commands | 11:34 |
| seb128 | or other distributions | 11:34 |
| seb128 | it's a consistant unix command line behaviour accross the board currently | 11:35 |
| seb128 | just changing one command just creates inconsistency | 11:35 |
| vish | seb128: how many users work on more than one distro.. ? and this is something which can be reverted if not preferred.. :) | 11:36 |
| vish | anyway... | 11:36 |
| seb128 | it doesn't adress vt login | 11:36 |
| seb128 | or su prompts or ssh prompts or other commands acting this way | 11:36 |
| seb128 | still on ubuntu | 11:36 |
| vish | seb128: we can fix them all , one by one ? ;) | 11:36 |
| seb128 | yes we can | 11:36 |
| vish | lets start with sudo .. | 11:37 |
| seb128 | but with the same energy we can fix an hundred desktop hundredpapercut | 11:37 |
| seb128 | so should we fix the command line and no desktop papercut this cycle? | 11:37 |
| seb128 | we have limited manpower and you can't get everything | 11:37 |
| vish | seb128: you keep mentioning energy , but energy is being used here to not fix it , than to fix. | 11:37 |
| seb128 | not really, we just discussed it | 11:38 |
| seb128 | I disagree that changing just sudo is fixing it, it's just creating inconsistency | 11:38 |
| seb128 | if you want to change it you need to do it with all command line prompts | 11:38 |
| seb128 | but anyway everybody expressed opinions | 11:38 |
| seb128 | I'm rather interested to working on desktop changes not command line | 11:39 |
| seb128 | but if somebody wants to step for this nice | 11:39 |
| seb128 | so I will stay out of the way from now on ;-) | 11:39 |
| vish | seb128: this is where i get confused : " but if somebody wants to step for this nice" ? what does that mean? | 11:39 |
| vish | if someone gets the fix.. or.. | 11:40 |
| seb128 | if somebody having the position to do the change want to do it and defend it in discussion etc and deal with bug reports and inconsistency etc | 11:40 |
| seb128 | having the position = upload rights and wanting to assume the change | 11:40 |
| seb128 | I'm not going to be the guy who changed sudo and who will get the heated discussions with all the community members who disagree with it | 11:41 |
| * vish can take blame , but would need upload rights ;) | 11:41 | |
| seb128 | in any case it's time to get something to eat | 11:41 |
| seb128 | bbl | 11:41 |
| rickspencer3 | it could always be reverted, right/ | 11:41 |
| rickspencer3 | ? | 11:41 |
| vish | rickspencer3: yes | 11:42 |
| rickspencer3 | it's still only Alpha 3 | 11:42 |
| seb128 | rickspencer3, not sure we can undo it on installed systems | 11:42 |
| seb128 | it's the ssh system config | 11:42 |
| seb128 | we can tweak the default value at installation | 11:42 |
| seb128 | it will also not change for upgraders | 11:42 |
| seb128 | bbl | 11:43 |
| and471 | seb128, go eat! :) | 11:43 |
| and471 | see ya guys, thanks for the discussion :) | 11:47 |
| * ogra wonders ehy empathy breaks hios image builds, there doesnt seem to be any upload that could have caused that | 12:17 | |
| ogra | gar, it waited for glib it seems :/ | 12:20 |
| === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away | ||
| === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch | ||
| === cking is now known as cking-afk | ||
| === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan | ||
| slomo | seb128: what are your plans for gnome 3.0 / gtk3 for ubuntu btw? and if you package gdkpixbuf/gtk 2.21.something, just write me a mail once you've put things into svn and i'll review/build/upload it for you :) | 14:18 |
| seb128 | slomo, not so much plans so far for this cycle | 14:21 |
| seb128 | slomo, basically we would like to settle the platform, ie uptodate gtk 2.22 | 14:21 |
| seb128 | getting gtk3 in the archive and maybe doing gtk3 builds of required GNOME libraries | 14:21 |
| seb128 | slomo, we didn't have any pressure to do those so far though and I don't want to duplicate work | 14:22 |
| seb128 | slomo, so I would be happy to work on those directly in debian | 14:22 |
| === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow | ||
| seb128 | slomo, I would appreciate reviews as well for those changes ;-) | 14:23 |
| slomo | seb128: sounds like a good plan imho, i hope we get the same done for squeeze | 14:23 |
| slomo | brb | 14:24 |
| slomo | seb128: do you have a package for libpeas already? | 14:29 |
| seb128 | no | 14:30 |
| slomo | ok | 14:30 |
| seb128 | slomo, who is taking care of gobject-introspection in debian? | 14:30 |
| seb128 | I would like to figure what we should be doing | 14:31 |
| seb128 | ie updating to 0.9 or not | 14:31 |
| slomo | seb128: bigon and joss | 14:31 |
| seb128 | it has an abi number update | 14:31 |
| slomo | seb128: and imho we should update asap if it's not going to change soon again | 14:31 |
| seb128 | who has an opinion on that in debian to discuss it? | 14:32 |
| slomo | bigon and joss :) | 14:33 |
| seb128 | slomo, I guess I should join on oftc to discuss those changes | 14:34 |
| slomo | yes, i stopped caring about g-i- some time ago because there are too many things that i don't like (missing support for nested namespaces being the worst...) | 14:35 |
| seb128 | slomo, nice, d-conf got newed in Debian now | 14:38 |
| slomo | yes, now i can finally test the gstreamer gsettings elements with a useful backend ;) | 14:40 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I've pushed the changes to the appdetailsview-gtk branch | 14:40 |
| kiwinote | mvo: I am just left with the enable component code not working completely , as I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460217/ | 14:41 |
| kiwinote | mvo: It seems to be some dbus or aptdaemon stuff, do you mind looking at that? | 14:41 |
| === cking-afk is now known as cking | ||
| jcastro | seb128: ok the only issue I see with the menu is the bullets showing up as dots, but that's triaged and assigned for A3. | 15:05 |
| seb128 | jcastro, excellent ;-) | 15:05 |
| jcastro | htorque was seeing problems yesterday with the tools menu in gedit but it looks fine to me | 15:07 |
| seb128 | jcastro, I can confirm similar issues | 15:11 |
| jcastro | ok so enough not to turn off the double menus yet, good, that's what I wanted. heh. | 15:11 |
| seb128 | jcastro, you recommend keeping the double menus for now? | 15:12 |
| jcastro | seb128: yeah, at least until we get the bullets | 15:12 |
| jcastro | we haven't had a flood of doublemenu reports, so we know people are reading the wiki page and following the directions | 15:13 |
| seb128 | oh | 15:13 |
| seb128 | "bullets showing up as dots" | 15:13 |
| seb128 | showing as checks marks you mean rather | 15:13 |
| jcastro | no, as check marks | 15:13 |
| jcastro | yeah, like in the document list in gedit | 15:13 |
| seb128 | right | 15:13 |
| seb128 | you wrote as dots before | 15:13 |
| seb128 | I was getting confused on what the issue was ;-) | 15:13 |
| jcastro | oh, I see I did, whoops | 15:14 |
| kiwinote | mvo_: when you are around, there are some sentences for you about 20 lines up | 15:15 |
| mvo_ | kiwinote: it appears I disconnected | 15:17 |
| mvo_ | kiwinote: could you please give them to me again? | 15:17 |
| kiwinote | <kiwinote> mvo: I've pushed the changes to the appdetailsview-gtk branch | 15:18 |
| kiwinote | <kiwinote> mvo: I am just left with the enable component code not working completely , as I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460217/ | 15:18 |
| kiwinote | <kiwinote> mvo: It seems to be some dbus or aptdaemon stuff, do you mind looking at that? | 15:18 |
| mvo_ | kiwinote: sure, I'm happy to have a look. thanks for your work on this! | 15:19 |
| kenvandine | seb128, also the application menu is still broken if you turn off double menus | 15:23 |
| kenvandine | for desktop users, not unity of course | 15:23 |
| seb128 | kenvandine, how broken? | 15:24 |
| kenvandine | if you turn off double menus, you get no menu items | 15:25 |
| * kenvandine finds the bug | 15:25 | |
| seb128 | wfm | 15:25 |
| seb128 | I just did unset the variable and run gedit | 15:25 |
| seb128 | it's correctly exported and menus are working on GNOME | 15:25 |
| kenvandine | bug 596871 | 15:26 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 596871 in indicator-appmenu (and 1 other project) "APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0 hides items in the panel menu applet (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596871 | 15:26 |
| kenvandine | humm | 15:26 |
| kenvandine | i tried it last night | 15:26 |
| kenvandine | oh... unset the variable? | 15:26 |
| seb128 | that's what I tried | 15:26 |
| kenvandine | i get the other menus fine | 15:27 |
| seb128 | APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0 works fine as well | 15:27 |
| kenvandine | but the applications menu is empty | 15:27 |
| * kenvandine tries again... maybe it was fixed in yesterdays upload and the bug not closed | 15:27 | |
| seb128 | kenvandine, oh ok | 15:28 |
| kenvandine | i did try it early yesterday | 15:28 |
| kenvandine | and it was still broken | 15:28 |
| seb128 | I didn't try the gnome-panel menus | 15:28 |
| kenvandine | ah | 15:28 |
| seb128 | I don't want to restart my session ;-) | 15:28 |
| kenvandine | hehe | 15:28 |
| seb128 | I though you said the appmenu applet was empty | 15:28 |
| kenvandine | ah, no | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | i'll make sure it is still broken, but i suspect it is :) | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | brb | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | yup, still broken | 15:32 |
| jcastro | didrocks: are you back today? | 15:43 |
| rickspencer3 | jcastro, he's out until next monday, I think | 15:44 |
| rickspencer3 | he's at yet another French Ubuntu event ;) | 15:44 |
| jcastro | probably speaking to 10,000 people right now | 15:44 |
| === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn | ||
| seb128 | jcastro, do you need anything? I can I help you? | 16:12 |
| jcastro | seb128: nope I was just filing some bugs on the banshee-meego bits he landed, nothing I can't catch up with him later on | 16:13 |
| seb128 | jcastro, ok | 16:13 |
| and471 | tedg, I got subclassing working, but I have one last problem | 16:15 |
| and471 | tedg, I can't add a custom signal to indicator, why is this? | 16:16 |
| tedg | and471, Cool, what was the issue? You should be able to add a signal... you can definitely do that in C. | 16:18 |
| tedg | and471, I'm not sure if you're running into a Vala-ism htere. | 16:18 |
| tedg | there | 16:18 |
| and471 | tedg, in vala, the issue was that I needed to set the indicator subclass as a property of my main class, it was getting lost before the gtk.main() | 16:19 |
| and471 | tedg, this latest problem is in python :) | 16:19 |
| and471 | tedg, I can add a signal using a gtk.StatusIcon, but not for an indicator | 16:20 |
| tedg | and471, Ah, makes sense. | 16:20 |
| tedg | and471, Are you trying to connect to a signal or add a new one? | 16:20 |
| tedg | and471, In your subclass. | 16:20 |
| and471 | tedg, http://pastebin.com/Zq6GhF6F | 16:21 |
| and471 | tedg, add a new one | 16:21 |
| tedg | and471, Sorry, I'm not sure. I'm guessing it must be something with how it's bound into Python. | 16:24 |
| tedg | kenvandine, ^^ | 16:24 |
| * kenvandine looks | 16:24 | |
| and471 | tedg, sorry, just when it was working in one language, I have switched to another :) | 16:25 |
| and471 | tedg, it is for a different project though :) | 16:25 |
| * and471 thanks kenvandine | 16:25 | |
| kenvandine | and471, so what isn't working in there? | 16:27 |
| and471 | kenvandine, so it appears to work (no error), but then when I try to connect the signal to a callback | 16:27 |
| and471 | self.indicator.connect("recording-done", self.on_indicator_recording_done) | 16:27 |
| and471 | http://pastebin.com/wU76HC6u | 16:28 |
| and471 | kenvandine, ^, but if change to using a gtk.StatusIcon (the fallback) it works | 16:28 |
| kenvandine | and471, maybe because your class is a subclass of appindicator.Indicator instead of GObject? | 16:32 |
| kenvandine | tedg, ^^ | 16:32 |
| tedg | kenvandine, That, in theory, shouldn't be an issue as appindicator.Indicator is a subclass of GObject. But I don't know how the Python bindings handle that. | 16:33 |
| kenvandine | ok | 16:34 |
| tedg | So it should go GObject -> AppIndicator -> His Class instead of GObject -> StatusItem -> His Class | 16:34 |
| tedg | I'd be curious if the Python bindings aren't properly communicating that to PyGTK or something? | 16:35 |
| tedg | kenvandine, Could you do a check with PyGI -- it might work better? :) | 16:35 |
| kenvandine | and471, can you try inheriting from gobject.GObject as well? | 16:36 |
| kenvandine | class KazamIndicator(appindicator.Indicator, gobject.GObject): | 16:36 |
| kenvandine | and471, or give me the rest of your code so i can try it myself :) | 16:37 |
| and471 | kenvandine, it didn't work | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | ok | 16:38 |
| and471 | kenvandine, I shall give you my code | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | thx | 16:38 |
| and471 | kenvandine, be warned though, it is very rough :-0 | 16:38 |
| kenvandine | sure :) | 16:38 |
| and471 | kenvandine, okay, it should be available here https://code.launchpad.net/~and471/+junk/kazam-temp | 16:40 |
| and471 | kenvandine, the indicator stuff is in kazam/indicator.py, you can manually use gtk.StatusIcon instead of the indicator subclass by changing line 35 to be some gobbledegook | 16:41 |
| and471 | (highly technical manual override) | 16:41 |
| and471 | :) | 16:41 |
| and471 | kenvandine, just run bin/kazam, click record, it should countdown and the indicator should appear, that is when you get the error | 16:41 |
| === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|afk | ||
| * seb128 just upgraded empathy | 16:47 | |
| seb128 | desrt, it's working using dconf! | 16:48 |
| and471 | kenvandine, anything? | 16:50 |
| seb128 | slomo, did you have time to work on the vala 0.9.2 ftbfs issue? | 16:54 |
| seb128 | slomo, there is a -2 let me sync that! | 16:55 |
| seb128 | slomo, thanks :-) | 16:56 |
| seb128 | slomo, hum, it seems that one still fails to build | 16:57 |
| seb128 | how do I downgraded a git checkout to a specific commit? | 17:03 |
| slomo | seb128: git checkout abcdef1234567890 | 17:14 |
| seb128 | slomo, thanks, I was trying to give an argument to git clone | 17:15 |
| kenvandine | and471, it's looks like that should work fine, let me eat something and try to create a simpler test case to test the bindings | 17:23 |
| and471 | kenvandine, cool | 17:25 |
| chrisccoulson | well, i'm going to try and upgrade to maverick in a bit :) | 17:39 |
| chrisccoulson | finally! | 17:39 |
| chrisccoulson | so, if i disappear for a long time, then it didn't go too well ;) | 17:40 |
| desrt | seb128: awesome :) | 17:41 |
| desrt | seb128: so i'm on the CD now, or...? | 17:42 |
| seb128 | desrt, yes you are! | 17:44 |
| desrt | sweet :) | 17:44 |
| desrt | and a bit scary.... | 17:45 |
| seb128 | desrt, do you plan to do a dconf release btw? | 17:45 |
| desrt | probably after the next glib release | 17:45 |
| seb128 | the current dconf-editor sucks | 17:45 |
| desrt | more broken APIs :p | 17:45 |
| desrt | yes. robert ancell wrote it. :p | 17:45 |
| seb128 | well the git one doesn't | 17:45 |
| seb128 | so give him some credit ;-) | 17:45 |
| desrt | oh | 17:45 |
| desrt | that's why you want a release :) | 17:46 |
| seb128 | desrt, right | 17:48 |
| desrt | okay | 17:49 |
| desrt | i'll be dropping a glib release soon | 17:49 |
| desrt | by the end of the week | 17:49 |
| desrt | i'll do a dconf to go with | 17:49 |
| desrt | we've been doing glib releases about once a week and every time there is a list of changes too big to fit onto one screen of a NEWS file. it's kinda fun :) | 17:50 |
| seb128 | desrt, it makes me glad we don't have a lot of softwares using ie new apis yet | 17:51 |
| desrt | we try to avoid breaking widely used APIs | 17:52 |
| desrt | even in the unstable release | 17:52 |
| desrt | nonetheless there are a few breaks this time around, still :/ | 17:52 |
| desrt | probably nothing you'll notice, though | 17:52 |
| desrt | btw... did the Bsymbolic stuff cause you any trouble? | 17:53 |
| * desrt is planning to rip that stuff out for good before the next release | 17:54 | |
| seb128 | desrt, what Bsymbolic? | 17:54 |
| desrt | good :) | 17:54 |
| desrt | if you didn't notice then it means it's working properly, i guess :p | 17:55 |
| desrt | we're dropping that IA__g_* stuff from glib and gtk | 17:55 |
| desrt | in favour of using the mostly-equivalent -Bsymbolic-functions linker flag | 17:55 |
| desrt | i did a release with a very minimal removal of the old stuff and addition of the new stuff | 17:55 |
| desrt | in the next day or so i going to do a more permanent removal of the old stuff | 17:55 |
| seb128 | desrt, ubuntu uses BSymboic by default | 17:56 |
| desrt | just wanted to give people a chance to complain before we went ahead and did it for good | 17:56 |
| desrt | seb128: fascinating. | 17:56 |
| desrt | -Bsymbolic or -Bsymbolic-functions? | 17:56 |
| seb128 | it's creating some issues every now and then | 17:56 |
| desrt | because -Bsymbolic will seriously break stuff | 17:56 |
| seb128 | the second one | 17:56 |
| seb128 | we do that for some cycles | 17:56 |
| desrt | cool | 17:56 |
| seb128 | out of some stuff declaring symbols in two places | 17:57 |
| desrt | well, it's actually not even the fault of the software | 17:57 |
| seb128 | usually in the binary and in a .so | 17:57 |
| seb128 | it works without issues | 17:57 |
| desrt | turns out the linker itself is really damn stupid | 17:57 |
| desrt | say you have some library that has like: | 17:57 |
| desrt | lib.c: | 17:57 |
| desrt | int somevar; | 17:57 |
| desrt | lib.h: | 17:57 |
| desrt | extern int somevar; | 17:57 |
| desrt | then you have an app | 17:57 |
| desrt | app.c: | 17:57 |
| desrt | a() { somevar = 5; } | 17:57 |
| desrt | (after including "lib.h", of course) | 17:58 |
| desrt | this doesn't work like you might think it works | 17:58 |
| desrt | when linking, the linker adds a 'copy' relocation | 17:58 |
| desrt | it copies the contents of the original 'somevar' variable out of the library's data segment and into the application's data segment | 17:58 |
| desrt | so now 'somevar' is a variable declared by the application | 17:58 |
| desrt | it then sets up the application's copy of 'somevar' to interpose over the one in the library | 17:59 |
| desrt | so if the library is using -Bsymbolic it will use its own local copy | 17:59 |
| desrt | and never see that it got set to 5 | 17:59 |
| desrt | totally stupid | 17:59 |
| seb128 | interesting | 17:59 |
| desrt | this is exactly the mechanism by which the glib thread vtable gets filled in | 17:59 |
| desrt | so if we linked glib with -Bsymbolic, threads don't work | 18:00 |
| desrt | i'm really unsure why it does that | 18:00 |
| desrt | the only benefit is that the application gets to use its own copy directly without a relocation | 18:00 |
| desrt | and no PLT lookup | 18:00 |
| seb128 | desrt, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609505 is the sort of issues we get with -Bsymbolic-functions | 18:02 |
| ubot2 | Gnome bug 609505 in general "Segfault on run with cheese 2.29.90" [Critical,Needinfo] | 18:02 |
| desrt | ah ya | 18:02 |
| desrt | of course | 18:02 |
| desrt | that's sort of like an application bug, though | 18:02 |
| seb128 | it is | 18:02 |
| desrt | strictly speaking, it's your fault | 18:03 |
| desrt | but in a practical sense..... | 18:03 |
| seb128 | I already once with hadess though we argued it's our fault for using this flag for our builds ;-) | 18:03 |
| seb128 | desrt, why? | 18:03 |
| desrt | because technically cheese is allowed to do what it's doing | 18:04 |
| desrt | and, in fact, it works | 18:04 |
| seb128 | it's just buggy to have the same symbols defined in the binary and the so | 18:04 |
| desrt | technically not true :) | 18:04 |
| desrt | ELF was designed to deal with this situation in a specific way | 18:04 |
| desrt | so it's no bug, in theory | 18:05 |
| desrt | but in reality it's probably not what they meant to do... | 18:05 |
| mclasen | in reality, they just messed up their build system | 18:05 |
| cking_ | pitti, is there a quick way of figuring out which keymap is being used by udev on my machine? | 18:20 |
| pitti | cking_: quickest is probably "sudo udevadm test /class/input/eventXX | 18:21 |
| pitti | cking_: with XX being the event number of your keyboard | 18:21 |
| cking_ | cool. | 18:21 |
| pitti | good night everyone; time for dinner and then watching THE GAME | 18:30 |
| and471 | ivanka, link to fonttest.design.canonical.com on the blog post is broken | 18:34 |
| and471 | ivanka, in fact all links except the last one | 18:35 |
| ivanka | and471: thanks! | 18:35 |
| and471 | ivanka, no problem | 18:35 |
| kenvandine | and471, ok... figured it out | 18:36 |
| kenvandine | you can't subclass appindicator.Indicator | 18:36 |
| and471 | kenvandine, yay! | 18:36 |
| and471 | kenvandine, oh... | 18:36 |
| kenvandine | it takes a parent class of gobject | 18:36 |
| kenvandine | http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460323/ | 18:37 |
| kenvandine | that is an example | 18:37 |
| and471 | kenvandine, so I have to have an indicator property within a generic gobject? | 18:38 |
| kenvandine | yes | 18:38 |
| and471 | kenvandine, thanks for your help, why is it that it doesn't work? | 18:38 |
| kenvandine | also, in retrospect, i can't see any reason to subclass it :) | 18:38 |
| kenvandine | at least in your case | 18:38 |
| and471 | kenvandine, true... | 18:39 |
| kenvandine | the first arg in the constructor is the parent gobject class | 18:39 |
| and471 | ivanka, as a prize, can I also get an email (as i am not an ubuntu member?) :D | 18:39 |
| === MacSlow|afk is now known as MacSlow | ||
| and471 | ivanka, (an email with an invite for the ppa that is) | 18:40 |
| ivanka | and471: thank you! I think they are all good now. | 18:44 |
| and471 | ivanka, as a prize, can I also get an email with a ppa invite (as i am not an ubuntu member?) :D | 18:45 |
| ivanka | and471: You have my eternal thanks - I'll have a little think about an appropriate prize ;-) | 18:45 |
| and471 | ivanka, hehe | 18:45 |
| and471 | ivanka, any idea when the font will be available to people besides ubuntu members? | 18:45 |
| jcastro | august 8th | 18:48 |
| and471 | jcastro, :( | 18:48 |
| and471 | ivanka, jcastro : is this a secret plan to get more people applying to be ubuntu members... :) | 18:53 |
| ivanka | and471: shhh - don't give it away! | 18:53 |
| and471 | :) | 18:55 |
| seb128 | cassidy, hello, do you have a bug about gsettings migration issue? | 18:56 |
| seb128 | cassidy, opening the preferences dialog displayed a "do you want to import the account listed there" dialog | 18:56 |
| chrisccoulson | heh, i think my daughter has broken the mobile in her cot | 19:09 |
| jpds | chrisccoulson: You got her an iPhone? | 19:10 |
| chrisccoulson | jpds - lol ;) | 19:10 |
| chrisccoulson | not just yet | 19:10 |
| chrisccoulson | it would have to be an android device anyway ;) | 19:11 |
| chrisccoulson | she grabs her mobile as it's spinning round whilst she sits in her cot, and all it does is click now | 19:11 |
| chrisccoulson | i think she must have stripped the teeth off the gears ;) | 19:12 |
| gord | could make a mobile out of old discarded iphone3's, a mobile mobile if you will | 19:21 |
| === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away | ||
| desrt | lifeless: hey? | 19:27 |
| lifeless | desrt: hi | 19:32 |
| desrt | lifeless: i seem to recall that you were using luks? | 19:33 |
| lifeless | not atm but I did for a few years | 19:33 |
| desrt | ya. i remember this circa cambridge UDS | 19:33 |
| desrt | any particular reason you stopped? | 19:33 |
| lifeless | it has overhead | 19:33 |
| lifeless | I switched to an SSD based laptop a few months back - march | 19:33 |
| lifeless | I decided to drop it at the same time, for a few reasons | 19:34 |
| desrt | and with the performance benefit of SSD the extra latency of the encryption became noticable? | 19:34 |
| lifeless | I was worried the wear levelling and the block-not-used commands wouldn't filter down the layers | 19:34 |
| desrt | ah. fascinating. | 19:35 |
| lifeless | zero evidence for or against | 19:35 |
| desrt | the drives are supposed to their own wear-leveling, aren't they? | 19:35 |
| lifeless | apparently the quality of that built in leveling is a major point of differentiation | 19:35 |
| desrt | i went intel | 19:35 |
| lifeless | but there is this ATAPI command to hint | 19:35 |
| lifeless | mine is fujitsu I think, its what lenovo put in the laptop | 19:36 |
| desrt | samsung, maybe? | 19:36 |
| lifeless | if I'd had a few more cycles I would have researched the issue | 19:36 |
| desrt | i called them up to ask them what they'd put in my laptop if i got the SSD option and they said samsung | 19:36 |
| === fta_ is now known as fta | ||
| desrt | i looked up reviews and samsung always came out on the bottom with intel on top | 19:36 |
| desrt | so i just ordered with the smallest disk possible and bought the intel drive separate | 19:36 |
| lifeless | [ 2.066790] scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA SAMSUNG MMCRE28G VBM1 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5 | 19:36 |
| desrt | yup | 19:37 |
| lifeless | yeah | 19:37 |
| lifeless | I had a bunch of time pressure | 19:37 |
| lifeless | so I punted | 19:37 |
| desrt | me too | 19:37 |
| desrt | but it turns out i got fucked anyway | 19:37 |
| desrt | i ordered during the mobile core i7 shortage | 19:37 |
| lifeless | and took some briefly considered risk reduction | 19:37 |
| lifeless | desrt: same! | 19:37 |
| lifeless | desrt: x201s ? | 19:37 |
| desrt | so my 1-2week delivery turned into me cancelling the order after a month and a half | 19:37 |
| desrt | ya | 19:37 |
| lifeless | I got mine | 19:37 |
| desrt | i'm glad i didn't | 19:38 |
| lifeless | 5 weeks I think it was | 19:38 |
| desrt | i ended up reordering on july 1 | 19:38 |
| desrt | the first day of the new sales tax regime in ontario | 19:38 |
| desrt | saved 8% due to that | 19:38 |
| lifeless | nice | 19:38 |
| desrt | plus they had a 25% sale, plus 22% for using my visa card | 19:38 |
| desrt | so i ended up getting it about $500 cheaper than if my order had gone through before | 19:38 |
| lifeless | thats cool | 19:39 |
| desrt | $1100 total | 19:39 |
| lifeless | how much mem did you get | 19:39 |
| desrt | 4 | 19:39 |
| lifeless | I got 8, really liking it | 19:39 |
| desrt | plus the bluetooth and top-of-the-line wifi | 19:40 |
| desrt | heh | 19:40 |
| desrt | 8 was too expensive for my blood :p | 19:40 |
| lifeless | the wifilink 6000 series ? | 19:40 |
| desrt | lemme check the invoice | 19:40 |
| desrt | Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN | 19:40 |
| lifeless | 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 6000 Series (rev 35) | 19:41 |
| desrt | i think 'wifilink' is the low model | 19:41 |
| lifeless | wasn't a selectable option in .au | 19:41 |
| desrt | :( | 19:41 |
| desrt | ya. it's the default one here | 19:41 |
| desrt | was like a $40 upgrade | 19:41 |
| desrt | a reasonable price to pay to be able to mock my friends when they can't get a signal with their powerbooks :p | 19:42 |
| lifeless | :) | 19:42 |
| desrt | anyway.. i was going to LUKS it up | 19:42 |
| desrt | but i guess now i won't | 19:42 |
| lifeless | well | 19:43 |
| lifeless | like I say 0 evidence pro or con | 19:43 |
| desrt | well... your 'gut' reasoning resonates well here | 19:43 |
| lifeless | I just know that new things generally take some time to integrate well vertically in the stack | 19:43 |
| lifeless | yeha | 19:43 |
| desrt | it's not like i'm smuggling state secrets across international borders or anything | 19:44 |
| desrt | (everyone knows that i use the internet for that!) | 19:44 |
| lifeless | :) | 19:44 |
| desrt | k. thanks for the infos | 19:45 |
| lifeless | de nada | 19:45 |
| * desrt pretends to do real work now | 19:45 | |
| === fta_ is now known as fta | ||
| chrisccoulson | success \o/ | 21:12 |
| waltercool | jcastro, are you there? | 21:33 |
| jcastro | waltercool: hi | 21:33 |
| waltercool | jcastro, hi there :P | 21:34 |
| pitti | *weep* | 21:34 |
| waltercool | jcastro, can you give me a invitation for ubuntu font ppa? :B | 21:34 |
| kenvandine | hey pitti | 21:36 |
| pitti | hey kenvandine | 21:36 |
| kenvandine | pitti, is the game over? | 21:36 |
| pitti | :'-( | 21:36 |
| pitti | kenvandine: yes, Spain kicked us out, 1:0 | 21:37 |
| kenvandine | guess i know the results | 21:37 |
| kenvandine | bummer | 21:37 |
| pitti | but they were unstoppable today | 21:37 |
| pitti | they had a perfect technique, and our guys could hardly keep the ball -- they were in pretty bad mood today apparently | 21:37 |
| kenvandine | my german brother-in-law was making me watch all the germany games on vacation :) | 21:37 |
| kenvandine | not that i resisted much :) | 21:38 |
| pitti | heh | 21:39 |
| pitti | well, the previous ones were quite fun to watch indeed | 21:39 |
| kenvandine | beer and wild german soccer fan, good times! | 21:39 |
| kenvandine | didn't get to see today's though :/ | 21:39 |
| pitti | kenvandine: then it was you who was missing | 21:40 |
| kenvandine | :) | 21:40 |
| kenvandine | guess i'll still watch it tonight just to complete the series | 21:41 |
| kenvandine | pitti, germany had a good run though! | 21:41 |
| pitti | absolutely, and still a good chance to become 3rd | 21:41 |
| === fta__ is now known as fta | ||
| chrisccoulson | pitti - i would tease you, but i can't really say anything after we lost so embarassingly to you ;) | 21:55 |
| highvoltage | hdh | 21:55 |
| lifeless | didrocks: are you lead on quickly now? | 22:04 |
| === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter | ||
| === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away | ||
| === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann | ||
| === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] | ||
| === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!