[00:00] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, I did?
[00:01] <robert_ancell> nice :)
[00:01] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, no more bugging you for uploads :)
[00:13] <TheMuso> yay! :p
[00:13] <seb128> hey
[00:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, there?
[00:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[00:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, hello
[00:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, how's it going?
[00:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, I had an attempt of updating GTK+ yesterday but the packaging is doing my head in :)  Do you know how debian is going?
[00:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, out of some IRC issues and launchpad being down when I wanted to upload a glib fix that's going alright there ;-)
[00:16] <seb128> robert_ancell, not really, I've watched their svn but not a lot of activity, you meant update 2.22 or 3?
[00:16] <robert_ancell> 2.22
[00:16] <seb128> robert_ancell, the empathy build failure is my fault but I can't upload the fixed glib
[00:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, I was just looking at that :)
[00:16] <seb128> robert_ancell, congratulation for your new uploads rights btw
[00:16] <robert_ancell> yay!
[00:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, the fix is commited and pushed but I got a "connection refused" on upload
[00:17] <robert_ancell> np
[00:17] <seb128> and checked the clock it was 3 minutes after "the launchpad will be down for update"
[00:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, if you can upload already feel free to sponsor the vcs version
[00:18] <robert_ancell> they like to bring it down when the people this side of the world start work
[00:18] <robert_ancell> cool, will do
[00:18] <seb128> robert_ancell, Josselin moved the commands from the bin to the lib and I forgot the compat part of the changes
[00:18] <robert_ancell> oh, I'll have to update the gcalctool dependencies
[00:18] <seb128> there is still a bug that the gio .pc has the wrong path for the schemas register command
[00:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, well the -bin should work the way it uses
[00:19] <robert_ancell> really want the new GTK+ as there are a number of packages that depend on it
[00:19] <seb128> it has compat entries in bin
[00:19] <seb128> ok, gseal work?
[00:19] <seb128> I can try to get things moving in debian tomorrow
[00:19] <robert_ancell> not sure, just required in configure.ac for some packages
[00:19] <seb128> robert_ancell, is there any update you want to get in ubuntu?
[00:20] <robert_ancell> .31 update?
[00:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw I'm not sure what should pull dconf in
[00:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, what is blocked on the gtk update?
[00:20] <robert_ancell> I think it should be ubuntu-desktop?
[00:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, I made glib recommends it for now
[00:20] <robert_ancell> vinagre at least
[00:20] <seb128> ok
[00:21] <seb128> robert_ancell, well ideally dh_gsettings or whatever is the new dh_gconf is should do it
[00:21] <seb128> the same way dh_gconf was doing
[00:21] <seb128> set a misc;Depends on libdconf0 is there is a gsettings schemas
[00:21] <robert_ancell> I thought we didn't need that now we have the triggers?
[00:21]  * TheMuso just noted libdconf was pulled into his maverick chroot.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> well, technically having a gsettings schema does not require dconf.  You could have another backends
[00:22] <robert_ancell> backend
[00:22] <seb128> ok
[00:22] <seb128> so let's keep the recommends in glib for now
[00:22] <seb128> it should do the job
[00:22] <robert_ancell> yeah, practically it works
[00:22] <micahg> robert_ancell: congrats on becoming core-dev
[00:22] <seb128> I'm not sure dconf is working though there
[00:22] <seb128> gcalctool doesn't seem to write any settings
[00:22] <robert_ancell> micahg, thanks
[00:23] <seb128> ie the mode is not stored and dconf-viewer is empty
[00:23] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I've noticed that too.  I'll investigate
[00:23] <TheMuso> Ah. libglib2.0-0 recommends libdconf0
[00:23] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[00:23] <seb128> TheMuso, yeah, see backlog
[00:24] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, can you update versions?  I've made it track the 2.30 packages
[00:24] <TheMuso> yeah just did
[00:24] <TheMuso> I have also noticed the system bell seems to be disabled under compiz in maverick. Is this intensional?
[00:25] <seb128> I doubt it but robert_ancell did a merge on debian which was non trivial
[00:25] <seb128> so one change my have skipped on the way
[00:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, done
[00:25] <robert_ancell> groan.  The system bell always seems to cause trouble...
[00:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, I should add an update in the cron job ;-)
[00:26] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Happy to dig into it
[00:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes please :)  My sprint list has an item "work out some common webspace for our scripts"
[00:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, speaking of which if you read the meeting log there is a sprint wikipage
[00:26] <seb128> robert_ancell, so feel free to put items there
[00:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh I will mwuhahaha!
[00:27] <seb128> ;-)
[00:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, not here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-07-06, do you mean the IRC log?
[00:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm very tempted to update nautilus to 2.31
[00:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, what's the cost?
[00:28] <seb128> I need to check what gconf use it does
[00:28] <seb128> they will likely port it to gsettings this cycle
[00:28] <seb128> but they have tons of nice changes
[00:28] <seb128> like a stack of hundredpapercut issues fixed
[00:29] <seb128> redesigned the copy dialog for conflicts
[00:29] <robert_ancell> that would be a big win
[00:29] <seb128> right
[00:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, IRC logs, yes, seems that rick didn't update the wiki
[00:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/Desktop
[00:31] <seb128> it's empty so far but feel free to start adding things ;-)
[00:31] <seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise do you have any opinion about going for the new gobject-introspection?
[00:32] <robert_ancell> seb128, I'm not aware of anything in particular that has changed
[00:32] <seb128> well they changed the abi version
[00:32] <seb128> so that will require renaming our gir debs at least if we do it
[00:34] <seb128> it's yet another transition but it should be doable if we want to go for it
[00:34] <robert_ancell> seb128, is debian going that way?
[00:34] <seb128> the guy handling the gnome-shell daily ppa asked if we were going to update since gjs 0.8 will require it
[00:34] <robert_ancell> right
[00:35] <seb128> dunno, I will have to figure that as well
[00:35] <seb128> but I think we should try to get at least our platform uptodate
[00:35] <seb128> and that's sort part of the platform nowadays
[00:35] <robert_ancell> seb128, are the gir debs just going to merge into the standard lib debs?
[00:35] <seb128> not that I know no, why?
[00:35] <robert_ancell> I think introspection is transitioning from an optional system to a core part of the library interface
[00:35] <seb128> debian created gir-... binaries on purpose
[00:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, well the issue is that installing non soname-versioned files in libraries break co-installability of versions
[00:40] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you think it's wrong?
[00:40] <seb128> in any case I don't want to divert from debian on that
[00:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, time to go to bed there
[00:42] <robert_ancell> seb128, but aren't the gir files matched to the so files?  match debian anyway
[00:42] <robert_ancell> seb128, cya
[00:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, no they are not, /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/Wnck-1.0.typelib
[00:43] <seb128> with /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.22
[00:43] <robert_ancell> seb128, I'll add it to the sprint list for discussion :)
[00:43] <seb128> we would need to have something in the typelib path that avoid conflict if the library soname change
[00:44] <seb128> I will try to sync with debian guys on their plans for gir and gtk updates
[00:44] <seb128> but for now time to get some sleep
[00:45] <seb128> try to figure what is wrong with dconf if you can today and let me know if you figure something ;-)
[00:45] <seb128> bye
[01:29] <TheMuso> Looks like LP is back.
[01:44] <mediacenter> I have an acer aspire 3810TZ that has an atheros wireless N built in and was running Windows Vista Home Premium. With Windows I got 130mb/s. Now I am running Ubuntu 10.4 and I get only 1mb/s or unknown. Does anyone know how to fix this problem?
[01:46] <jenkins> from what version of ubuntu was apport intorduced?
[01:48] <RAOF> mediacenter: This isn't a support channel; #ubuntu or ubuntuforums.org will be better.  That said, it sounds like you're reading the numbers reported by “Connection information”, which might simply be wrong.  This is likely to be a bug (probably in the drivers).
[01:48] <micahg> jenkins: looks like edgy
[01:48] <jenkins> micahg: wow that long ago, cool thanks
[01:49] <mediacenter> RAOF: Thanks for your help.
[03:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I want to release glib from bzr that seb did, how do I sign the package without changing the changelog?
[03:16] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
[03:16] <lifeless> robert_ancell: don't edit the changelog, surely :P
[03:17] <robert_ancell> lifeless, yes, I don't want to edit the changelog, but when you run debuild -S it complains it can't sign as seb
[03:18] <lifeless> DEB_SIGNING_KEY or something. hang on
[03:18] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: one sec, will check the repo myself.
[03:18] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: use -uc -us on the end of the debuild command
[03:18] <TheMuso> Then run debsign over the changes file.
[03:18] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
[03:19] <lifeless> or debuild -S -m robertancell
[03:19] <TheMuso> yeah that works too
[03:19] <lifeless> actually
[03:19] <lifeless> -k
[03:20] <lifeless> is the one to use
[03:20] <robert_ancell> too many options...
[03:20] <robert_ancell> hmm, still not working
[03:20] <robert_ancell> I'm running: bzr-buildpackage -S -- -k robert.ancell@canonical.com
[03:21] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, how have you been sponsoring my uploads?
[03:22] <robert_ancell> oh, got it
[03:22] <robert_ancell> no space after -k
[03:22] <robert_ancell> bad app
[03:23] <robert_ancell> lifeless, thanks
[03:26] <TheMuso> heh yeah I sometimes get caught with debsign on that one.
[03:27] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I tend to use -uc -us and debsign afterwards.
[07:03] <pitti> Good morning
[07:17] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[07:18]  * TheMuso -> slightly early EOD
[07:23] <pitti> hey TheMuso, sleep well!
[08:11] <kiwinote> mvo: hi
[08:11] <mvo> hey kiwinote
[08:11] <kiwinote> mvo: I've made a few changes to the appdetails class in my branch, mostly just a few renaming things while we still can
[08:12] <mvo> kiwinote: ok
[08:12] <mvo> kiwinote: I have a look
[08:12] <kiwinote> mvo: you may want to revert some of the changes, but I've put a little comment explaining the change were applicable
[08:13] <kiwinote> mvo: I haven't updated anything outside the appdetails.py and test_database to use the new naming
[08:18] <mvo> kiwinote: ok
[08:20] <kiwinote> mvo: any changes you don't want, or do I change the appdetailsview to use the new naming?
[08:21] <kiwinote> mvo: the only last thing I was wondering about was the summary and description. they both kind of sound the same, but I couldn't think of better names to distinguish between them..
[08:22] <mvo> kiwinote: thanks, I just looked over it and I think the changes are fine and make sense
[08:22] <kiwinote> ok
[08:23] <mvo> kiwinote: I think summary/description needs good doc strings. maybe summary/long_description? but that then becomes a bit too long
[08:24] <kiwinote> mvo: yeah, probably best just to leave it as it is until someone comes up with really good names for them
[08:24]  * mvo nods
[08:26] <mvo> kiwinote: merged
[08:27] <seb128> hello
[08:28] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:28] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:28] <seb128> how are you?
[08:34] <seb128> brb after upgrade restart
[08:37] <robert_ancell> desrt, ping
[08:38] <pitti> hey robert_ancell
[08:39] <pitti> robert_ancell: congratulations for your new core-dev badge, well earned!
[08:39] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey
[08:39] <robert_ancell> thanks
[08:40] <kiwinote> mvo: my branch should have the remaining changes needed for appdetailsview-wk to use the new naming
[08:41] <kiwinote> mvo: I'll update my own branch and the appdetailsview-gtk to use the new naming, so I won't be touching your code for the next while ;)
[08:41] <mvo> kiwinote: ok
[08:42] <mvo> kiwinote: I work on the remaining bits and will merge into trunk today
[08:43] <kiwinote> mvo: yep, that code is quite sweet, so it'll be nice once it's in trunk for us all to use. thanks
[09:05] <seb128> slomo, hey
[09:06] <seb128> slomo, do you know if anybody is working on updating gtk 2.22 with the new gdk-pixbuf source in debian?
[09:08] <seb128> slomo, do you also know what are the plan for gobject-introspection? will debian update or stay on that abi version?
[09:12] <slomo> seb128: no idea, sorry
[09:12] <seb128> slomo, for both questions?
[09:12] <slomo> yes
[09:13] <seb128> ok
[09:13] <seb128> slomo, you don't plan to work on the gtk update yourself? ;-)
[09:14] <slomo> i do but i have too many other things to do right now :(
[09:14] <slomo> might take a week or two
[09:15] <seb128> slomo, ok
[09:15] <seb128> slomo, I might have a go to the update and packaging gdk-pixbuf today
[09:15] <seb128> slomo, I will ping you for review and debian sponsoring if I do ;-)
[09:16] <slomo> ok, thanks :)
[09:16] <seb128> robert_ancell, you didn't do any work on updating gtk today right?
[09:16] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[09:17] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[09:18] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, had a nice party last night?
[09:18] <pitti> I'm sure the Dutch folks are happy :)
[09:18] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes, they were quite happy
[09:18] <rickspencer3> :)
[09:19] <pitti> let's hope we'll meet them on Sunday!
[09:19] <rickspencer3> though  I think several heart attacks occurred in the last 60 seconds
[09:19] <and471> hehe
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, let's wait to see what it's going to be on sunday ;-)
[09:19] <pitti> rickspencer3: heart attacks> I didn't follow the game, they shot a goal in the last minue?
[09:20] <rickspencer3> pitti, yeah, in extra time there was quite some action in front of the NL goal
[09:20] <pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. they were damn close to a 3:3?
[09:20] <rickspencer3> pitti, correct
[09:20] <pitti> hehe
[09:20] <rickspencer3> one good shot would have equalized
[09:21] <and471> pitti, the uruguayans were going at them crazy, and 3 mins of extra time stretched into 4 and a half :)
[09:21] <rickspencer3> I'm supposed to be on a train to Brussels atm
[09:21] <rickspencer3> but someone used the tracks to do themselves in
[09:21] <rickspencer3> :(
[09:21] <rickspencer3> so my train was canceled
[09:21] <pitti> urgh
[09:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: but that usually takes just an hour or two to settle; got some urgent appointments?
[09:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, yeah, I needed to transfer to EuroStar
[09:22] <rickspencer3> so would have missed my train there, etc...
[09:22] <rickspencer3> so I hit the reset button, will try again later
[09:23] <rickspencer3> or maybe next week, even
[09:56] <mvo> kiwinote: let me know when you feel I should merge the apdetails-gtk branch, I think the other bits are ready
[09:58] <mvo> kiwinote: I split the webkit stuff into appdetailsview_webkit now, so it should be easy
[09:58] <kiwinote> mvo: I've just finished updating the appdetailsview-gtk file, I've still got to update some of the code in the application.py (eg the pkg_state stuff) before appdetailsview-gtk will work nicely
[09:58] <mvo> kiwinote: ok, thanks. no worries, just ping me :)
[10:38] <and471> mvo, could I ask why you are not using webkit in software-center anymore? (sorry for asking twice, my pc crashed)
[10:40] <mvo> and471: hello, there were some integration and a11y issues, but mostly because mmcg wrote a super-beautiful gtk version of the category view widget
[10:41] <mvo> and471: I am still fond of webkit and think its a good way to make beautiful UIs without too much work
[10:41] <and471> mvo, the reason I ask is that I am creating this http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/introducing-the-wasiliana-mail-client/
[10:41] <and471> my first idea was to use webkit to create the UI
[10:41] <mvo> and471: but matthew decided to go the extra mile (that is rquired with gtk)
[10:41] <and471> but now wx-toolkit has come to my attention (toolkit in clutter, used by meego)
[10:42] <and471> mvo, I was wondering which would be better
[10:42] <mvo> and471: nice! I think you will still need webkit to display the html mails
[10:42] <and471> mvo, yeah,
[10:42] <and471> mvo, it was whther to just use for the email, or for the whole app
[10:42] <mvo> and471: I think it depends a bit, I personally think it much easier to find html hackers than people implementing gtk widgets
[10:42] <mvo> and471: but gtk feels snappier and is better integrated (at least currently)
[10:43] <and471> mvo, hmmm, there is my dilemna :)
[10:43] <mvo> and471: I would design a abstract class and implement the html version first
[10:43] <and471> mvo, did you encounter any performance issues with webkit?
[10:43] <mvo> and471: and then you can experiment with gtk/webkit/clutter
[10:43] <and471> mvo, and allow for a mx-toolkit version :)
[10:44] <and471> mvo, the project I am working on is designed for netbooks, and if there any performance issues, then there is no point my using webkit
[10:44] <mvo> and471: no real performance issues, but in order to be sure that the page is rendered before executing JS it feels on some place not as snappy as with native gtk
[10:45] <mvo> and471: I think this problems can be solved by more careful work on the html/JS, not a big deal IMO
[10:45] <and471> mvo, the one thing good thing about mx-toolkit in relation to webkit, is that it can be styled with CSS also :)
[10:45] <mvo> and471: cool!
[10:46] <and471> mvo, mx-toolkit is based on clutter, does clutter require compositing?
[10:46] <and471> mvo, :)
[10:46] <mvo> and471: I quite like webkit still, without matthew I still would use it, but he does such beautiful work on the native widgets that its just too good :)
[10:46] <and471> mvo, I branched a recent version and it did look good :)
[10:46] <mvo> and471: yes, clutter requires compositing. we were thinking about using it as well, but that makes other stuff more difficult
[10:47] <and471> mvo, so by using mx-toolkit, would that be limiting my audience, and how does clutter run on netbooks (i.e. well or not)
[10:47] <and471> mvo, sorry for these questions, you are just the most experienced person that I know well
[10:48] <mvo> and471: netbooks should be fine, its really stuff like nvidia without nvidia-glx that is problematic
[10:48] <mvo> and471: compiz runs fine on netbooks, once HW acceleration is availalbe you should be fine
[10:49] <and471> mvo, well I shall continue work on my other project and speak to the lead dev later (hopefully) to see if he has any more advice
[10:49] <and471> mvo, thanks for your help
[10:49] <mvo> and471: have fun! and of course we always have open arms in software-center for you as well :)
[10:50] <and471> mvo, :) maybe a bit later :)
[10:54] <mvo> sure .)
[10:58] <and471> mvo, see ya
[11:05] <and471> what is the best way to have a patch in a deb, that only applies to the desktop edition? (in this case, a change to the default /etc/sudoers files if installling desktop edition)
[11:06] <Laney> how come glib2.0 doesn't have a build record for sparc?
[11:07] <and471> seb128, pitti ^ could you have a look?
[11:07] <seb128> and471, to what? glib?
[11:08] <and471> and471, no my comment
[11:08] <seb128> Laney, I guess it's a lamont question
[11:08] <and471> seb128, what is the best way to have a patch in a deb, that only applies to the desktop edition? (in this case, a change to the default /etc/sudoers files if installling desktop edition)
[11:08] <Laney> seb128: ok
[11:08] <seb128> Laney, I think it's taking the buildds down for some reason
[11:09] <seb128> so lamont set it in an ignore list or something until that sorted
[11:09] <seb128> and471, don't?
[11:09] <and471> seb128, :)
[11:09] <and471> seb128, in this case it kinda needs to be
[11:09] <seb128> and471, there is no way to apply something only to the desktop edition since the same deb is used on all editions
[11:10] <seb128> and471, what are you trying to do?
[11:10] <and471> seb128, it is about showing visual feedback with sudo - but only on the desktop
[11:10] <and471> (i.e. asterisks)
[11:10] <seb128> and471, change whatever is building your images to tweak it
[11:10] <seb128> why do people care so much about sudo on the desktop
[11:11] <and471> seb128, there are about 100 comments on the bug report, vish asked me to see how it could be implemented
[11:11] <seb128> and471, that change is not likely to ever go in ubuntu
[11:11] <and471> seb128, hey don't shoot the messenger
[11:11] <seb128> it's arguably a security issue
[11:11] <seb128> well that has been discussed several times
[11:11] <Laney> use the new "Opinion" status for the bug :)
[11:12] <and471> Laney, :)
[11:12] <seb128> sudo is a command line poweruser thing
[11:12] <seb128> we will not set different behaviour depending of what you are using it
[11:12] <seb128> no normal desktop user should see a sudo prompt anyway
[11:12] <and471> seb128, I think the overall opinion of the bug report was that the server team don't want it, but the deisgn team do, and the server team said the deisgn team can
[11:12] <pitti> and471: you can't apply that to sudo, you'd have to modify suders in ubiquity
[11:13] <pitti> I'm not sure whether ubiquity already modifies sudoers in some way
[11:13] <vish> pitti: i'll take blame :D , wanted and471 to get a working patch ;)
[11:13] <and471> pitti, so would that be the 'least hacky' of the hacky ways?
[11:13] <pitti> but it'd still be inconsistent
[11:13] <seb128> why do design team care so much about command lines?
[11:13] <seb128> shouldn't we improve the desktop rather
[11:13] <pitti> and471: honestly? fix our documentation to use gksu or pkexec instead of sudo
[11:14] <seb128> what pitti said
[11:14] <vish> pitti: which is easier ? fix every documentation or.. ?
[11:14] <pitti> and471: the next best thing, change ubiquity to set the pwfeedback option in sudoers
[11:14] <seb128> why should any normal user run sudo
[11:14] <rickspencer3> what's the bug #?
[11:14] <and471> pitti, ok
[11:14] <vish> rickspencer3: bug #194472
[11:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 194472 in sudo (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback (affects: 7) (dups: 2) (heat: 26)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472
[11:14] <pitti> I tried it here locally, and it works rwell
[11:14] <rickspencer3> uh
[11:14]  * and471 can feel a heated debate coming on....
[11:14] <rickspencer3> I think passwords have worked that way in unix for ...
[11:14] <rickspencer3> uh ..,
[11:15] <rickspencer3> ever?
[11:15] <seb128> the debate has already happened on several iteration
[11:15] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes, displaying visual feedback on the number of chars is sort of a security concern for some users
[11:15] <seb128> some command line users rather let's say ;-)
[11:15] <vish> rickspencer3: yes , but we can improve the situation for new users  who get confused , for example http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=214393
[11:15] <seb128> I would be in the opinion of leaving the command line as it is
[11:16] <rickspencer3> uh
[11:16] <and471> seb128, (it deso remove the asterisks after you have pressed enter, but yes, some users still feel it is a risk)
[11:16] <seb128> the real question is why forum recommends using sudo
[11:16] <and471> *does
[11:16] <vish> rickspencer3: or > https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sound-juicer/+question/2046 , they dont really understand why it is happening
[11:16] <seb128> rather than gksudo or equivalent
[11:16] <rickspencer3> wow, I can't imagine we would touch tried and true command line behavior
[11:16] <and471> seb128, IIRC there are some commands which gksudo doesn't run with
[11:17] <vish> rickspencer3: its a small preference , which can be reverted for a user who does not like it
[11:17] <seb128> it would be a bug and we should fix it then
[11:17] <rickspencer3> vish, preferences = unpredictability and code complexity
[11:17] <vish> rickspencer3: it is already there
[11:17] <seb128> don't we have real desktop issues to work on?
[11:17]  * rickspencer3 stays out of it
[11:17] <seb128> rather than trying to change the way the command line is working since the stone age or so?
[11:18] <vish> rickspencer3: its just an extra word in thesudoers file ;)
[11:18]  * seb128 as well
[11:18] <seb128> we shouldn't lower our standards just because some dumb users write buggy recommendations on forums for other users
[11:19] <pitti> My biggest concern is that this wouldn't help at all
[11:19] <pitti> since on most boxes you'd still see no password, just on new maverick desktop installs
[11:19] <pitti> we can't magically and retroactively fix the world
[11:20] <vish> but we can prevent new users from not being confused :)
[11:20] <rickspencer3> vish, why are "new" users using sudo on the cli?
[11:20] <pitti> and if we do that, I'm already seeing the next guy coming along and wanting the same for ssh
[11:20] <rickspencer3> and if this confuses them, then it's the least of our worries
[11:20] <seb128> right, let's address this
[11:20] <pitti> that's just how the CLI works *shrug*
[11:20] <and471> the trouble with the bug is that no one wants to get involved, they keep handing it to the next person
[11:21] <vish> yeah :s
[11:21] <seb128> the trouble is why would you want to change how the command line work
[11:21] <pitti> (and it gets way more attention than it deserves, really, FWIW)
[11:21] <seb128> just don't direct normal desktop users to it
[11:21] <rickspencer3> what needs to be done if we want to keep the current "no asterix" behavior?
[11:21] <pitti> rickspencer3: nothing
[11:21] <and471> rickspencer3, nothing
[11:21] <rickspencer3> nothing is a good amount of work to take on
[11:21] <seb128> ;-)
[11:21] <vish> ;p
[11:22] <and471> rickspencer3, if we want asterisks, we need a one line debdiff that changes one word
[11:22] <and471> rickspencer3, hehe
[11:22] <rickspencer3> but we don't want asterixes
[11:22] <pitti> and471: not quite
[11:22] <rickspencer3> at least I don't
[11:22] <seb128> and471, it would change sudo
[11:22] <pitti> and471: you need some code in ubiquity to add it to an existing sudoers
[11:22] <vish> rickspencer3: it can be reverted if someone doesnt :)
[11:22] <seb128> and471, next you get that with ssh and other prompts as well
[11:22] <and471> pitti, yeah sorry, for just desktop it might be a few more lines :p
[11:22] <pitti> and471: and then update tons of documentation to account for both cases (asterisks and none) and explain the difference
[11:22] <rickspencer3> command lines have certain tried and true behaviors and I don't see a good reason for Ubuntu to deviate
[11:22] <seb128> vish, you adress the issue with one command only though
[11:23] <seb128> su still works without *
[11:23] <seb128> ssh still works...
[11:23] <seb128> etc
[11:23] <vish> rickspencer3: upstream fixed the bug mainly becaused be requested and now we are not using it :(
[11:23] <rickspencer3> the bug comments say that usability = asterix, and security = balnk
[11:23] <vish> seb128: i agree :)
[11:23] <pitti> rickspencer3: I think we can ignore the security part here; my concerns are about consistency and existing documentation
[11:23] <rickspencer3> I don;t agree
[11:23] <vish> s/be/we
[11:23] <seb128> we didn't reply to why we bring those users to a command line to start
[11:24] <rickspencer3> Don Norman says that if all else fails, standardize
[11:24] <rickspencer3> I think deviating from standard behavior here will do more harm than good
[11:24] <rickspencer3> ok
[11:24] <rickspencer3> that's my $.02
[11:24]  * rickspencer3 backs out again
[11:24] <seb128> same 0.2
[11:24] <vish> seb128: often hardware dont work and there needs tweaking.. we resort to these commands..
[11:24] <seb128> I don't support the change and I will not contribute to any move to that direction
[11:24]  * pitti goes back to fixing upower bugs
[11:24] <vish> hmm..
[11:24] <rickspencer3> ouch
[11:25]  * seb128 goes back to backport nautilus hundredpapercut bugfixes
[11:25] <pitti> vish: gksu/pkexec FTW
[11:25] <rickspencer3> vish ...
[11:25] <seb128> things which will really improve our desktop
[11:25] <rickspencer3> I'm sorry if we're coming off as not being appreciative of your efforts
[11:25] <and471> seb128, pitti hey come on guys, don't get down on vish, he is only trying to help
[11:25] <rickspencer3> we definately love you and your contributions are invaluable
[11:26] <seb128> and471, it's not against vish
[11:26] <seb128> he's doing great work
[11:26] <rickspencer3> and471, trying to make that point now
[11:26] <seb128> and I'm working right now on backporting nautilus changes for bugs he got fixed upstream
[11:26] <rickspencer3> in fact, i don't think anyone is blocking the * thing
[11:26] <seb128> but you need to pick your battles
[11:26] <seb128> changing the command line is an hard battle for little win since that's not something users should have to use
[11:26] <and471> seb128, I realise that, it just when you say I am off to do more important work, it sounds as if you are devaluing his work
[11:26] <rickspencer3> so, for the record, vish == totally awesome
[11:26] <and471> cool
[11:27] <seb128> and471, as said you need to pick battles
[11:27] <rickspencer3> I think we all know what seb128 meant
[11:27] <vish> ;)
[11:27] <and471> seb128, not a battle, just a comment
[11:27] <seb128> and471, I've expressed my opinion on the sudo change
[11:27] <and471> right lets all cool off... :D
[11:27] <seb128> I don't know anybody is heated there
[11:27] <seb128> sorry if that came wrongly
[11:28] <pitti> and471, vish: I'm not "getting down" on vish, sorry if I came across like that; I just don't like that particular idea, but I still do like vish
[11:28] <seb128> but I think we all expressed our opinions and have to agree to disagree
[11:28]  * pitti hugs everyone
[11:28]  * vish  didnt take it personally too :)
[11:28] <seb128> vish is doing great work and lot of hundredpapercut bugs will be fixed thanks to him
[11:28] <pitti> (and shiny icons!)
[11:28] <seb128> I just don't want to be involved in that sudo change
[11:28]  * and471 accepts the hugs :)
[11:28] <seb128> ;-)
[11:29] <and471> okay, in 10 secs we have gone from heated to loveydovey :D
[11:29] <seb128> hehe
[11:29] <vish> just funny seeing it is tough to make hackers think different ;p
[11:29] <seb128> I don't think anybody was heated, sorry if that came wrongly
[11:29] <seb128> I just things we have strong opinions and we are not ready to be convinced it's where we want to go
[11:29] <and471> seb128, np, as I said it is a limitation of IRC, when speaking in real life, facial expressions etc. affect tone
[11:30] <rickspencer3> and471, well, it's good to call people on it if you think someone is out of line ... so you did the right thing
[11:31] <rickspencer3> we need to keep #u-desktop a good place to be
[11:31] <and471> keep everything hunkydory...
[11:32] <vish> rickspencer3: pitti: seb128: i do understand that the sudo commands being given out are wrong , but my final take on this is that: this was something we[i] could help solve within our powers than trying to convince every person on the planet to not mention sudo :)
[11:33] <rickspencer3> vish, tbh, I think using the cli to help people is *good*
[11:33] <rickspencer3> in some limited circumstances
[11:34] <seb128> vish, and471: but changing sudo doesn't fix the issue
[11:34] <seb128> it would just make the sudo on modern ubuntu different from upgrades
[11:34] <seb128> or from su or vt login or ssh or zillion other commands
[11:34] <seb128> or other distributions
[11:35] <seb128> it's a consistant unix command line behaviour accross the board currently
[11:35] <seb128> just changing one command just creates inconsistency
[11:36] <vish> seb128: how many users work on more than one distro..  ?  and this is something which can be reverted if not preferred.. :)
[11:36] <vish> anyway...
[11:36] <seb128> it doesn't adress vt login
[11:36] <seb128> or su prompts or ssh prompts or other commands acting this way
[11:36] <seb128> still on ubuntu
[11:36] <vish> seb128: we can fix them all , one by one ? ;)
[11:36] <seb128> yes we can
[11:37] <vish> lets start with sudo ..
[11:37] <seb128> but with the same energy we can fix an hundred desktop hundredpapercut
[11:37] <seb128> so should we fix the command line and no desktop papercut this cycle?
[11:37] <seb128> we have limited manpower and you can't get everything
[11:37] <vish> seb128: you keep mentioning energy , but energy is being used here to not fix it , than to fix.
[11:38] <seb128> not really, we just discussed it
[11:38] <seb128> I disagree that changing just sudo is fixing it, it's just creating inconsistency
[11:38] <seb128> if you want to change it you need to do it with all command line prompts
[11:38] <seb128> but anyway everybody expressed opinions
[11:39] <seb128> I'm rather interested to working on desktop changes not command line
[11:39] <seb128> but if somebody wants to step for this nice
[11:39] <seb128> so I will stay out of the way from now on ;-)
[11:39] <vish> seb128: this is where i get confused : " but if somebody wants to step for this nice"  ?  what does that mean?
[11:40] <vish> if someone gets the fix.. or..
[11:40] <seb128> if somebody having the position to do the change want to do it and defend it in discussion etc and deal with bug reports and inconsistency etc
[11:40] <seb128> having the position = upload rights and wanting to assume the change
[11:41] <seb128> I'm not going to be the guy who changed sudo and who will get the heated discussions with all the community members who disagree with it
[11:41]  * vish can take blame , but would need upload rights ;)
[11:41] <seb128> in any case it's time to get something to eat
[11:41] <seb128> bbl
[11:41] <rickspencer3> it could always be reverted, right/
[11:41] <rickspencer3> ?
[11:42] <vish> rickspencer3: yes
[11:42] <rickspencer3> it's still only Alpha 3
[11:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, not sure we can undo it on installed systems
[11:42] <seb128> it's the ssh system config
[11:42] <seb128> we can tweak the default value at installation
[11:42] <seb128> it will also not change for upgraders
[11:43] <seb128> bbl
[11:43] <and471> seb128, go eat! :)
[11:47] <and471> see ya guys, thanks for the discussion :)
[12:17]  * ogra wonders ehy empathy breaks hios image builds, there doesnt seem to be any upload that could have caused that
[12:20] <ogra> gar, it waited for glib it seems :/
[14:18] <slomo> seb128: what are your plans for gnome 3.0 / gtk3 for ubuntu btw? and if you package gdkpixbuf/gtk 2.21.something, just write me a mail once you've put things into svn and i'll review/build/upload it for you :)
[14:21] <seb128> slomo, not so much plans so far for this cycle
[14:21] <seb128> slomo, basically we would like to settle the platform, ie uptodate gtk 2.22
[14:21] <seb128> getting gtk3 in the archive and maybe doing gtk3 builds of required GNOME libraries
[14:22] <seb128> slomo, we didn't have any pressure to do those so far though and I don't want to duplicate work
[14:22] <seb128> slomo, so I would be happy to work on those directly in debian
[14:23] <seb128> slomo, I would appreciate reviews as well for those changes ;-)
[14:23] <slomo> seb128: sounds like a good plan imho, i hope we get the same done for squeeze
[14:24] <slomo> brb
[14:29] <slomo> seb128: do you have a package for libpeas already?
[14:30] <seb128> no
[14:30] <slomo> ok
[14:30] <seb128> slomo, who is taking care of gobject-introspection in debian?
[14:31] <seb128> I would like to figure what we should be doing
[14:31] <seb128> ie updating to 0.9 or not
[14:31] <slomo> seb128: bigon and joss
[14:31] <seb128> it has an abi number update
[14:31] <slomo> seb128: and imho we should update asap if it's not going to change soon again
[14:32] <seb128> who has an opinion on that in debian to discuss it?
[14:33] <slomo> bigon and joss :)
[14:34] <seb128> slomo, I guess I should join on oftc to discuss those changes
[14:35] <slomo> yes, i stopped caring about g-i- some time ago because there are too many things that i don't like (missing support for nested namespaces being the worst...)
[14:38] <seb128> slomo, nice, d-conf got newed in Debian now
[14:40] <slomo> yes, now i can finally test the gstreamer gsettings elements with a useful backend ;)
[14:40] <kiwinote> mvo: I've pushed the changes to the appdetailsview-gtk branch
[14:41] <kiwinote> mvo: I am just left with the enable component code not working completely , as I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460217/
[14:41] <kiwinote> mvo: It seems to be some dbus or aptdaemon stuff, do you mind looking at that?
[15:05] <jcastro> seb128: ok the only issue I see with the menu is the bullets showing up as dots, but that's triaged and assigned for A3.
[15:05] <seb128> jcastro, excellent ;-)
[15:07] <jcastro> htorque was seeing problems yesterday with the tools menu in gedit but it looks fine to me
[15:11] <seb128> jcastro, I can confirm similar issues
[15:11] <jcastro> ok so enough not to turn off the double menus yet, good, that's what I wanted. heh.
[15:12] <seb128> jcastro, you recommend keeping the double menus for now?
[15:12] <jcastro> seb128: yeah, at least until we get the bullets
[15:13] <jcastro> we haven't had a flood of doublemenu reports, so we know people are reading the wiki page and following the directions
[15:13] <seb128> oh
[15:13] <seb128> "bullets showing up as dots"
[15:13] <seb128> showing as checks marks you mean rather
[15:13] <jcastro> no, as check marks
[15:13] <jcastro> yeah, like in the document list in gedit
[15:13] <seb128> right
[15:13] <seb128> you wrote as dots before
[15:13] <seb128> I was getting confused on what the issue was ;-)
[15:14] <jcastro> oh, I see I did, whoops
[15:15] <kiwinote> mvo_: when you are around, there are some sentences for you about 20 lines up
[15:17] <mvo_> kiwinote: it appears I disconnected
[15:17] <mvo_> kiwinote: could you please give them to me again?
 mvo: I've pushed the changes to the appdetailsview-gtk branch
 mvo: I am just left with the enable component code not working completely , as I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460217/
 mvo: It seems to be some dbus or aptdaemon stuff, do you mind looking at that?
[15:19] <mvo_> kiwinote: sure, I'm happy to have a look. thanks for your work on this!
[15:23] <kenvandine> seb128, also the application menu is still broken if you turn off double menus
[15:23] <kenvandine> for desktop users, not unity of course
[15:24] <seb128> kenvandine, how broken?
[15:25] <kenvandine> if you turn off double menus, you get no menu items
[15:25]  * kenvandine finds the bug
[15:25] <seb128> wfm
[15:25] <seb128> I just did unset the variable and run gedit
[15:25] <seb128> it's correctly exported and menus are working on GNOME
[15:26] <kenvandine> bug 596871
[15:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 596871 in indicator-appmenu (and 1 other project) "APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0 hides items in the panel menu applet (affects: 1) (heat: 11)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596871
[15:26] <kenvandine> humm
[15:26] <kenvandine> i tried it last night
[15:26] <kenvandine> oh... unset the variable?
[15:26] <seb128> that's what I tried
[15:27] <kenvandine> i get the other menus fine
[15:27] <seb128> APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0 works fine as well
[15:27] <kenvandine> but the applications menu is empty
[15:27]  * kenvandine tries again... maybe it was fixed in yesterdays upload and the bug not closed
[15:28] <seb128> kenvandine, oh ok
[15:28] <kenvandine> i did try it early yesterday
[15:28] <kenvandine> and it was still broken
[15:28] <seb128> I didn't try the gnome-panel menus
[15:28] <kenvandine> ah
[15:28] <seb128> I don't want to restart my session ;-)
[15:28] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:28] <seb128> I though you said the appmenu applet was empty
[15:29] <kenvandine> ah, no
[15:29] <kenvandine> i'll make sure it is still broken, but i suspect it is :)
[15:29] <kenvandine> brb
[15:32] <kenvandine> yup, still broken
[15:43] <jcastro> didrocks: are you back today?
[15:44] <rickspencer3> jcastro, he's out until next monday, I think
[15:44] <rickspencer3> he's at yet another French Ubuntu event ;)
[15:44] <jcastro> probably speaking to 10,000 people right now
[16:12] <seb128> jcastro, do you need anything? I can I help you?
[16:13] <jcastro> seb128: nope I was just filing some bugs on the banshee-meego bits he landed, nothing I can't catch up with him later on
[16:13] <seb128> jcastro, ok
[16:15] <and471> tedg, I got subclassing working, but I have one last problem
[16:16] <and471> tedg, I can't add a custom signal to indicator, why is this?
[16:18] <tedg> and471, Cool, what was the issue?  You should be able to add a signal... you can definitely do that in C.
[16:18] <tedg> and471, I'm not sure if you're running into a Vala-ism htere.
[16:18] <tedg> there
[16:19] <and471> tedg, in vala, the issue was that I needed to set the indicator subclass as a property of my main class, it was getting lost before the gtk.main()
[16:19] <and471> tedg, this latest problem is in python :)
[16:20] <and471> tedg, I can add a signal using a gtk.StatusIcon, but not for an indicator
[16:20] <tedg> and471, Ah, makes sense.
[16:20] <tedg> and471, Are you trying to connect to a signal or add a new one?
[16:20] <tedg> and471, In your subclass.
[16:21] <and471> tedg, http://pastebin.com/Zq6GhF6F
[16:21] <and471> tedg, add a new one
[16:24] <tedg> and471, Sorry, I'm not sure.  I'm guessing it must be something with how it's bound into Python.
[16:24] <tedg> kenvandine, ^^
[16:24]  * kenvandine looks
[16:25] <and471> tedg, sorry, just when it was working in one language, I have switched to another :)
[16:25] <and471> tedg, it is for a different project though :)
[16:25]  * and471 thanks kenvandine 
[16:27] <kenvandine> and471, so what isn't working in there?
[16:27] <and471> kenvandine, so it appears to work (no error), but then when I try to connect the signal to a callback
[16:27] <and471> self.indicator.connect("recording-done", self.on_indicator_recording_done)
[16:28] <and471> http://pastebin.com/wU76HC6u
[16:28] <and471> kenvandine, ^, but if change to using a gtk.StatusIcon (the fallback) it works
[16:32] <kenvandine> and471, maybe because your class is a subclass of appindicator.Indicator instead of GObject?
[16:32] <kenvandine> tedg, ^^
[16:33] <tedg> kenvandine, That, in theory, shouldn't be an issue as appindicator.Indicator is a subclass of GObject.  But I don't know how the Python bindings handle that.
[16:34] <kenvandine> ok
[16:34] <tedg> So it should go GObject -> AppIndicator -> His Class instead of GObject -> StatusItem -> His Class
[16:35] <tedg> I'd be curious if the Python bindings aren't properly communicating that to PyGTK or something?
[16:35] <tedg> kenvandine, Could you do a check with PyGI -- it might work better? :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> and471, can you try inheriting from gobject.GObject as well?
[16:36] <kenvandine> class KazamIndicator(appindicator.Indicator, gobject.GObject):
[16:37] <kenvandine> and471, or give me the rest of your code so i can try it myself :)
[16:38] <and471> kenvandine, it didn't work
[16:38] <kenvandine> ok
[16:38] <and471> kenvandine, I shall give you my code
[16:38] <kenvandine> thx
[16:38] <and471> kenvandine, be warned though, it is very rough :-0
[16:38] <kenvandine> sure :)
[16:40] <and471> kenvandine, okay, it should be available here https://code.launchpad.net/~and471/+junk/kazam-temp
[16:41] <and471> kenvandine, the indicator stuff is in kazam/indicator.py, you can manually use gtk.StatusIcon instead of the indicator subclass by changing line 35 to be some gobbledegook
[16:41] <and471> (highly technical manual override)
[16:41] <and471> :)
[16:41] <and471> kenvandine, just run bin/kazam, click record, it should countdown and the indicator should appear, that is when you get the error
[16:47]  * seb128 just upgraded empathy
[16:48] <seb128> desrt, it's working using dconf!
[16:50] <and471> kenvandine, anything?
[16:54] <seb128> slomo, did you have time to work on the vala 0.9.2 ftbfs issue?
[16:55] <seb128> slomo, there is a -2 let me sync that!
[16:56] <seb128> slomo, thanks :-)
[16:57] <seb128> slomo, hum, it seems that one still fails to build
[17:03] <seb128> how do I downgraded a git checkout to a specific commit?
[17:14] <slomo> seb128: git checkout abcdef1234567890
[17:15] <seb128> slomo, thanks, I was trying to give an argument to git clone
[17:23] <kenvandine> and471, it's looks like that should work fine, let me eat something and try to create a simpler test case to test the bindings
[17:25] <and471> kenvandine, cool
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> well, i'm going to try and upgrade to maverick in a bit :)
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> finally!
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> so, if i disappear for a long time, then it didn't go too well ;)
[17:41] <desrt> seb128: awesome :)
[17:42] <desrt> seb128: so i'm on the CD now, or...?
[17:44] <seb128> desrt, yes you are!
[17:44] <desrt> sweet :)
[17:45] <desrt> and a bit scary....
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, do you plan to do a dconf release btw?
[17:45] <desrt> probably after the next glib release
[17:45] <seb128> the current dconf-editor sucks
[17:45] <desrt> more broken APIs :p
[17:45] <desrt> yes.  robert ancell wrote it. :p
[17:45] <seb128> well the git one doesn't
[17:45] <seb128> so give him some credit ;-)
[17:45] <desrt> oh
[17:46] <desrt> that's why you want a release :)
[17:48] <seb128> desrt, right
[17:49] <desrt> okay
[17:49] <desrt> i'll be dropping a glib release soon
[17:49] <desrt> by the end of the week
[17:49] <desrt> i'll do a dconf to go with
[17:50] <desrt> we've been doing glib releases about once a week and every time there is a list of changes too big to fit onto one screen of a NEWS file.  it's kinda fun :)
[17:51] <seb128> desrt, it makes me glad we don't have a lot of softwares using ie new apis yet
[17:52] <desrt> we try to avoid breaking widely used APIs
[17:52] <desrt> even in the unstable release
[17:52] <desrt> nonetheless there are a few breaks this time around, still :/
[17:52] <desrt> probably nothing you'll notice, though
[17:53] <desrt> btw... did the Bsymbolic stuff cause you any trouble?
[17:54]  * desrt is planning to rip that stuff out for good before the next release
[17:54] <seb128> desrt, what Bsymbolic?
[17:54] <desrt> good :)
[17:55] <desrt> if you didn't notice then it means it's working properly, i guess :p
[17:55] <desrt> we're dropping that IA__g_* stuff from glib and gtk
[17:55] <desrt> in favour of using the mostly-equivalent -Bsymbolic-functions linker flag
[17:55] <desrt> i did a release with a very minimal removal of the old stuff and addition of the new stuff
[17:55] <desrt> in the next day or so i going to do a more permanent removal of the old stuff
[17:56] <seb128> desrt, ubuntu uses BSymboic by default
[17:56] <desrt> just wanted to give people a chance to complain before we went ahead and did it for good
[17:56] <desrt> seb128: fascinating.
[17:56] <desrt> -Bsymbolic or -Bsymbolic-functions?
[17:56] <seb128> it's creating some issues every now and then
[17:56] <desrt> because -Bsymbolic will seriously break stuff
[17:56] <seb128> the second one
[17:56] <seb128> we do that for some cycles
[17:56] <desrt> cool
[17:57] <seb128> out of some stuff declaring symbols in two places
[17:57] <desrt> well, it's actually not even the fault of the software
[17:57] <seb128> usually in the binary and in a .so
[17:57] <seb128> it works without issues
[17:57] <desrt> turns out the linker itself is really damn stupid
[17:57] <desrt> say you have some library that has like:
[17:57] <desrt> lib.c:
[17:57] <desrt> int somevar;
[17:57] <desrt> lib.h:
[17:57] <desrt> extern int somevar;
[17:57] <desrt> then you have an app
[17:57] <desrt> app.c:
[17:57] <desrt> a() { somevar = 5; }
[17:58] <desrt> (after including "lib.h", of course)
[17:58] <desrt> this doesn't work like you might think it works
[17:58] <desrt> when linking, the linker adds a 'copy' relocation
[17:58] <desrt> it copies the contents of the original 'somevar' variable out of the library's data segment and into the application's data segment
[17:58] <desrt> so now 'somevar' is a variable declared by the application
[17:59] <desrt> it then sets up the application's copy of 'somevar' to interpose over the one in the library
[17:59] <desrt> so if the library is using -Bsymbolic it will use its own local copy
[17:59] <desrt> and never see that it got set to 5
[17:59] <desrt> totally stupid
[17:59] <seb128> interesting
[17:59] <desrt> this is exactly the mechanism by which the glib thread vtable gets filled in
[18:00] <desrt> so if we linked glib with -Bsymbolic, threads don't work
[18:00] <desrt> i'm really unsure why it does that
[18:00] <desrt> the only benefit is that the application gets to use its own copy directly without a relocation
[18:00] <desrt> and no PLT lookup
[18:02] <seb128> desrt, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609505 is the sort of issues we get with -Bsymbolic-functions
[18:02] <ubot2> Gnome bug 609505 in general "Segfault on run with cheese 2.29.90" [Critical,Needinfo]
[18:02] <desrt> ah ya
[18:02] <desrt> of course
[18:02] <desrt> that's sort of like an application bug, though
[18:02] <seb128> it is
[18:03] <desrt> strictly speaking, it's your fault
[18:03] <desrt> but in a practical sense.....
[18:03] <seb128> I already once with hadess though we argued it's our fault for using this flag for our builds ;-)
[18:03] <seb128> desrt, why?
[18:04] <desrt> because technically cheese is allowed to do what it's doing
[18:04] <desrt> and, in fact, it works
[18:04] <seb128> it's just buggy to have the same symbols defined in the binary and the so
[18:04] <desrt> technically not true :)
[18:04] <desrt> ELF was designed to deal with this situation in a specific way
[18:05] <desrt> so it's no bug, in theory
[18:05] <desrt> but in reality it's probably not what they meant to do...
[18:05] <mclasen> in reality, they just messed up their build system
[18:20] <cking_> pitti, is there a quick way of figuring out which keymap is being used by udev on my machine?
[18:21] <pitti> cking_: quickest is probably "sudo udevadm test /class/input/eventXX
[18:21] <pitti> cking_: with XX being the event number of your keyboard
[18:21] <cking_> cool.
[18:30] <pitti> good night everyone; time for dinner and then watching THE GAME
[18:34] <and471> ivanka, link to fonttest.design.canonical.com on the blog post is broken
[18:35] <and471> ivanka, in fact all links except the last one
[18:35] <ivanka> and471: thanks!
[18:35] <and471> ivanka, no problem
[18:36] <kenvandine> and471, ok... figured it out
[18:36] <kenvandine> you can't subclass appindicator.Indicator
[18:36] <and471> kenvandine, yay!
[18:36] <and471> kenvandine, oh...
[18:36] <kenvandine> it takes a parent class of gobject
[18:37] <kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/460323/
[18:37] <kenvandine> that is an example
[18:38] <and471> kenvandine, so I have to have an indicator property within a generic gobject?
[18:38] <kenvandine> yes
[18:38] <and471> kenvandine, thanks for your help, why is it that it doesn't work?
[18:38] <kenvandine> also, in retrospect, i can't see any reason to subclass it :)
[18:38] <kenvandine> at least in your case
[18:39] <and471> kenvandine, true...
[18:39] <kenvandine> the first arg in the constructor is the parent gobject class
[18:39] <and471> ivanka, as a prize, can I also get an email (as i am not an ubuntu member?) :D
[18:40] <and471> ivanka, (an email with an invite for the ppa that is)
[18:44] <ivanka> and471: thank you! I think they are all good now.
[18:45] <and471> ivanka, as a prize, can I also get an email with a ppa invite (as i am not an ubuntu member?) :D
[18:45] <ivanka> and471: You have my eternal thanks - I'll have a little think about an appropriate prize ;-)
[18:45] <and471> ivanka, hehe
[18:45] <and471> ivanka, any idea when the font will be available to people besides ubuntu members?
[18:48] <jcastro> august 8th
[18:48] <and471> jcastro, :(
[18:53] <and471> ivanka, jcastro : is this a secret plan to get more people applying to be ubuntu members... :)
[18:53] <ivanka> and471: shhh - don't give it away!
[18:55] <and471> :)
[18:56] <seb128> cassidy, hello, do you have a bug about gsettings migration issue?
[18:56] <seb128> cassidy, opening the preferences dialog displayed a "do you want to import the account listed there" dialog
[19:09] <chrisccoulson> heh, i think my daughter has broken the mobile in her cot
[19:10] <jpds> chrisccoulson: You got her an iPhone?
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> jpds - lol ;)
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> not just yet
[19:11] <chrisccoulson> it would have to be an android device anyway ;)
[19:11] <chrisccoulson> she grabs her mobile as it's spinning round whilst she sits in her cot, and all it does is click now
[19:12] <chrisccoulson> i think she must have stripped the teeth off the gears ;)
[19:21] <gord> could make a mobile out of old discarded iphone3's, a mobile mobile if you will
[19:27] <desrt> lifeless: hey?
[19:32] <lifeless> desrt: hi
[19:33] <desrt> lifeless: i seem to recall that you were using luks?
[19:33] <lifeless> not atm but I did for a few years
[19:33] <desrt> ya.  i remember this circa cambridge UDS
[19:33] <desrt> any particular reason you stopped?
[19:33] <lifeless> it has overhead
[19:33] <lifeless> I switched to an SSD based laptop a few months back - march
[19:34] <lifeless> I decided to drop it at the same time, for a few reasons
[19:34] <desrt> and with the performance benefit of SSD the extra latency of the encryption became noticable?
[19:34] <lifeless> I was worried the wear levelling and the block-not-used commands wouldn't filter down the layers
[19:35] <desrt> ah.  fascinating.
[19:35] <lifeless> zero evidence for or against
[19:35] <desrt> the drives are supposed to their own wear-leveling, aren't they?
[19:35] <lifeless> apparently the quality of that built in leveling is a major point of differentiation
[19:35] <desrt> i went intel
[19:35] <lifeless> but there is this ATAPI command to hint
[19:36] <lifeless> mine is fujitsu I think, its what lenovo put in the laptop
[19:36] <desrt> samsung, maybe?
[19:36] <lifeless> if I'd had a few more cycles I would have researched the issue
[19:36] <desrt> i called them up to ask them what they'd put in my laptop if i got the SSD option and they said samsung
[19:36] <desrt> i looked up reviews and samsung always came out on the bottom with intel on top
[19:36] <desrt> so i just ordered with the smallest disk possible and bought the intel drive separate
[19:36] <lifeless> [    2.066790] scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SAMSUNG MMCRE28G VBM1 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
[19:37] <desrt> yup
[19:37] <lifeless> yeah
[19:37] <lifeless> I had a bunch of time pressure
[19:37] <lifeless> so I punted
[19:37] <desrt> me too
[19:37] <desrt> but it turns out i got fucked anyway
[19:37] <desrt> i ordered during the mobile core i7 shortage
[19:37] <lifeless> and took some briefly considered risk reduction
[19:37] <lifeless> desrt: same!
[19:37] <lifeless> desrt: x201s ?
[19:37] <desrt> so my 1-2week delivery turned into me cancelling the order after a month and a half
[19:37] <desrt> ya
[19:37] <lifeless> I got mine
[19:38] <desrt> i'm glad i didn't
[19:38] <lifeless> 5 weeks I think it was
[19:38] <desrt> i ended up reordering on july 1
[19:38] <desrt> the first day of the new sales tax regime in ontario
[19:38] <desrt> saved 8% due to that
[19:38] <lifeless> nice
[19:38] <desrt> plus they had a 25% sale, plus 22% for using my visa card
[19:38] <desrt> so i ended up getting it about $500 cheaper than if my order had gone through before
[19:39] <lifeless> thats cool
[19:39] <desrt> $1100 total
[19:39] <lifeless> how much mem did you get
[19:39] <desrt> 4
[19:39] <lifeless> I got 8, really liking it
[19:40] <desrt> plus the bluetooth and top-of-the-line wifi
[19:40] <desrt> heh
[19:40] <desrt> 8 was too expensive for my blood :p
[19:40] <lifeless> the wifilink 6000 series ?
[19:40] <desrt> lemme check the invoice
[19:40] <desrt> Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
[19:41] <lifeless> 02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 6000 Series (rev 35)
[19:41] <desrt> i think 'wifilink' is the low model
[19:41] <lifeless> wasn't a selectable option in .au
[19:41] <desrt> :(
[19:41] <desrt> ya.  it's the default one here
[19:41] <desrt> was like a $40 upgrade
[19:42] <desrt> a reasonable price to pay to be able to mock my friends when they can't get a signal with their powerbooks :p
[19:42] <lifeless> :)
[19:42] <desrt> anyway.. i was going to LUKS it up
[19:42] <desrt> but i guess now i won't
[19:43] <lifeless> well
[19:43] <lifeless> like I say 0 evidence pro or con
[19:43] <desrt> well... your 'gut' reasoning resonates well here
[19:43] <lifeless> I just know that new things generally take some time to integrate well vertically in the stack
[19:43] <lifeless> yeha
[19:44] <desrt> it's not like i'm smuggling state secrets across international borders or anything
[19:44] <desrt> (everyone knows that i use the internet for that!)
[19:44] <lifeless> :)
[19:45] <desrt> k.  thanks for the infos
[19:45] <lifeless> de nada
[19:45]  * desrt pretends to do real work now
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> success \o/
[21:33] <waltercool> jcastro, are you there?
[21:33] <jcastro> waltercool: hi
[21:34] <waltercool> jcastro, hi there :P
[21:34] <pitti> *weep*
[21:34] <waltercool> jcastro, can you give me a invitation for ubuntu font ppa? :B
[21:36] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[21:36] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[21:36] <kenvandine> pitti, is the game over?
[21:36] <pitti> :'-(
[21:37] <pitti> kenvandine: yes, Spain kicked us out, 1:0
[21:37] <kenvandine> guess i know the results
[21:37] <kenvandine> bummer
[21:37] <pitti> but they were unstoppable today
[21:37] <pitti> they had a perfect technique, and our guys could hardly keep the ball -- they were in pretty bad mood today apparently
[21:37] <kenvandine> my german brother-in-law was making me watch all the germany games on vacation :)
[21:38] <kenvandine> not that i resisted much :)
[21:39] <pitti> heh
[21:39] <pitti> well, the previous ones were quite fun to watch indeed
[21:39] <kenvandine> beer and wild german soccer fan, good times!
[21:39] <kenvandine> didn't get to see today's though :/
[21:40] <pitti> kenvandine: then it was you who was missing
[21:40] <kenvandine> :)
[21:41] <kenvandine> guess i'll still watch it tonight just to complete the series
[21:41] <kenvandine> pitti, germany had a good run though!
[21:41] <pitti> absolutely, and still a good chance to become 3rd
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i would tease you, but i can't really say anything after we lost so embarassingly to you ;)
[21:55] <highvoltage> hdh
[22:04] <lifeless> didrocks: are you lead on quickly now?