[07:45]  * Rhonda peeks around. Did I miss a meeting? Oh, right. Erm …
[07:46] <Rhonda> ajmitch, czajkowski, popey: I was told applying for MOTU would give me membership directly too - I just forgot to remove myself from the EMEA schedule. Sorry. %-)
[07:49] <Rhonda> ajmitch, czajkowski, popey: Was rather a time constraint then too at that point with my private stuff needing attention.
[08:43] <czajkowski> Rhonda: no worries
[10:01] <nigelb> 23
[10:01] <nigelb> er, ouch, sorry, window fail
[10:02] <Ddorda> nigelb: i told you to stay away from that 7, even though it's blue and shiny, it is very breakable. after all it's still a window...
[10:06] <nigelb> Ddorda: 7?
[10:07] <Rhonda> haha
[10:08] <Ddorda> nigelb: how many 7 windows do you know?
[10:08] <Ddorda> i feel tricky today...
[10:09] <nigelb> Ddorda: heh, oh yeah.  Anyway, I was talking about irssi windows.  I typed the window number before my keybind for /windows
[16:01] <cjwatson> hi folks
[16:01] <ev> hiya
[16:02] <barry> hello
[16:02] <mvo_> hi
[16:02] <Keybuk> hi
[16:02] <doko> hi
[16:03] <psurbhi> hi
[16:03] <robbiew> o/
[16:03]  * cjwatson desperately wishes it would cool down some more here
[16:03] <cjwatson> though the Texan is going to tell me to quit being a wimp
[16:04] <Keybuk> cjwatson: they don't have humidity in Texas
[16:04] <barry> cjwatson: or the DC native.  DC was built on a swamp, something i'm reminded of this week :(
[16:04] <ev> it's 103 on the east coast
[16:04] <ev> of the US, that is
[16:05] <ev> cjwatson: has it been much warmer than London there?  We've had lovely weather the past few weeks.
[16:05] <robbiew> Keybuk: eh hem....take a trip to Houston
[16:05] <robbiew> barry: ack...DC is INSANELY humid...but Houston is even worse
[16:05] <robbiew> el nino!!!
[16:06] <ScottK> IIRC, Houston is where air conditioning was invented.
[16:06] <cjwatson> ev: I grew up in colder weather
[16:06] <barry> robbiew: worse?!  it must be like living in the clouds
[16:06] <robbiew> barry: more like the amazon
[16:06] <ev> ah, right
[16:06] <cjwatson> ev: dunno whether it's warmer than London, but I've never really acclimatised properly
[16:07] <robbiew> barry: plus DC doesn't stay hot as many months...and tends to cool down in the evenings
[16:07] <ev> cjwatson: you're in for a fun time if the next UDS is in one of those southeastern states.
[16:07] <robbiew> heh...might be Orlando
[16:07] <robbiew> or back to Dallas
[16:07]  * robbiew can feel the lurkers making note of that
[16:08] <robbiew> who's chairing today?
[16:08] <Keybuk> Orlando sounds good
[16:08] <Keybuk> who's for a Space Mountain BOF?
[16:08] <ev> NOT I
[16:08] <cjwatson> last meeting log says it's me
[16:08] <mvo_> space mountain?
[16:08] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:08] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:08] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:08] <Keybuk> ev: wuss
[16:08] <ev> mvo_: roller coaster in complete darkness
[16:09] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:09] <cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
[16:09] <cjwatson> barry, ev, mvo, cjwatson, doko, csurbhi, Keybuk
[16:09] <ev> Keybuk: I've played that game once.  I came out very green.
[16:09] <mvo_> *weeh* I'm too scared for this. I thought for a moment its a ref to a tad willisam book (space mountains, orlando, all there too)
[16:09] <barry> short week due ot usa holiday.  f-m-robust-python-packaging: worked on versioned .so files patch; upstream email discussions; TODO write pep. f-m-python-versions: scripting py2.7 archive PPA in ~pythoneers; 2375 successful builds; 90 failed; TODO analyze failures.  misc: python-distribute patch testing; installing maverick on mbp; uefi presentation.
[16:09] <barry> done
[16:09] <ev> Racing to finish as much of the installer redesign as I can before the sprint.  Saving parallel debconf and gdk offscreen window work for the sprint.  Currently finishing the automatic partitioning page, then wiring up the timezone page to a local copy of the new geonames service while I wait for IS to give me a server for it (RT #39986).
[16:09] <ev> done
[16:09] <mvo_> software-center: work on lazr.restfulclient integration (gobject, non-blocking), plugin interface, buy-something, new-apps spec, fixes; alpha2 tasks (app-install-data, c-n-f-data, apt-ddp); python-apt: port gdebi debfile.py (with kiwinote) to python-apt, add tests, happy about the result; update-notifier: add plugin code
[16:09] <mvo_> (done)
[16:10] <cjwatson> done: alpha-2 (mostly pitti); merged grub2 by-id handling into Debian at long last, and fixed a few bugs; almost caught up with my 10.04.1 SRU targets; some progress on foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer, with apw and mjg59 (current state: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/fbcon-handoff.ogv)
[16:10] <cjwatson> todo: finish and submit kernel patch to add linearfb, for foundations-m-grub2-boot-framebuffer; background image handling fixes for same; get some testing on something that isn't just KVM at 1024x768
[16:11] <doko> looking for bugs in openjdk-6 builds for older releases (ant bugs, bugs in the hardening defaults?)
[16:11] <doko> first python2.[67], python3.[12] updates, python-stdlib for maverick
[16:12] <doko> some merging of linaro-gcc patches
[16:12] <doko> (done)
[16:12] <psurbhi> 1) fixed some bugs in btrfs support for grub2. Submitted the patch on grub-devel@gnu.org. Waiting to see whether it can be passed as GPL3.
[16:12] <psurbhi> 2) worked on bug 598946 - of applying a patch for btrfs support to gparted. Submitted a proposed merge request for the same. Need to rework on this - got comments from cjwatson.
[16:12] <psurbhi> 3) working on the mdadm delta for maverick. Debian mdadm is at 3.2.1 while maverick mdadm is at 2.6.7.1
[16:12] <psurbhi> 4) expecting work on btrfs for grub-2 once the patch is reviewed. Shall complete the merge for mdadm by then or before re-starting the btrfs work
[16:12] <psurbhi> 5) done
[16:12] <psurbhi> oops wrong bug num
[16:12] <Keybuk> working on ureadahead reprofiling; this makes it so each boot is profiled for the next and changes in pack are averaged between boots
[16:12] <Keybuk> also looking into doing readahead directly on the disk, in preparation for defrag stuff with btrfs
[16:12] <Keybuk> ~
[16:13] <psurbhi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/598946
[16:13] <cjwatson> psurbhi: ubottu is a bit buggy sometimes
[16:13] <psurbhi> ok
[16:15] <cjwatson> ah, that's everyone
[16:15] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:15] <cjwatson> none that I can see
[16:15] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Alpha-3 bugs
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha-3 bugs
[16:15] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27561
[16:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone:list=27561
[16:15] <cjwatson> doko filed a bunch of build failures that need to be looked at
[16:16] <cjwatson> mvo_: can you take apt and aptitude?
[16:16] <mvo_> sure thing
[16:16] <cjwatson> Keybuk: can you take upstart (two bugs, oddly)?
[16:17] <cjwatson> doko: I guess you're dealing with the gcc-4.4 bug there yourself
[16:17] <cjwatson> ev: could you take perl?
[16:17] <ev> cjwatson: sure
[16:17] <cjwatson> (ok, this is going to be sort of random now)
[16:18] <cjwatson> barry: could you take valgrind?
[16:18] <barry> cjwatson: yep
[16:18] <cjwatson> psurbhi: could you take iptables from that list?
[16:18] <doko> cjwatson: yes
[16:18] <psurbhi> cjwatson, yes
[16:18] <cjwatson> and I'll take, uh, cyrus-sasl2 I guess for now
[16:18] <cjwatson> that should get us moving a bit
[16:19] <mvo_> I will look at more when I have a idle moment, usually its fun to fix them
[16:19] <cjwatson> yeah, feel free to grab more once you run out, this sort of thing is usually not too hard
[16:20]  * robbiew will also cover them in this week's release meeting
[16:21] <cjwatson> oh, and make sure to check for newer versions in Debian; if it can be fixed with a sync or a merge, so much the better
[16:21] <barry> cjwatson: +1
[16:21] <doko> barry: or new upstream/cvs for valgrind
[16:21] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
[16:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
[16:21] <barry> doko: gotcha
[16:21] <Keybuk> cjwatson: still waiting for launchpad to show me the bug#s
[16:21]  * cjwatson feeds Keybuk's network hamsters
[16:22] <mvo_> gdebi can now use the python-apt debfile.py and it became really nice
[16:22] <doko> good news is that some soyuz bugs for test rebuilds are now fixed, enabling rebuilds for armel, and selecting only one component (main).
[16:22] <robbiew> New release manager starts August 1st
[16:23] <ev> yay
[16:23] <Keybuk> cjwatson: err, I'm not sure I can fix this bug
[16:23] <barry> cool
[16:23] <Keybuk> I'm just using dh 7 so it could be a debhelper bug?
[16:23] <cjwatson> Keybuk: talk it over after the meeting?
[16:24] <cjwatson> Keybuk: oh, no, it's a debian/rules bug.  use := not =
[16:24] <cjwatson> in the armel case
[16:24] <mvo_> release manager++
[16:24] <Keybuk> cjwatson: what armel case?
[16:24] <cjwatson> ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),armel)
[16:24] <cjwatson> CFLAGS="$(filter-out -fPIE,$(CFLAGS))"
[16:24] <cjwatson> LDFLAGS="$(filter-out -pie,$(LDFLAGS))"
[16:24] <cjwatson> endif
[16:24] <Keybuk> huh, I didn't put that there :p
[16:25] <Keybuk> sounds like a doko-ism
[16:25]  * doko looks away
[16:25] <cjwatson> looks like lool
[16:25] <cjwatson> cf. 0.6.0-4
[16:25] <Keybuk> ah right
[16:25] <doko> hmm, the same is probably in libnih
[16:26] <cjwatson> surprised that didn't break before
[16:26]  * barry has maverick running natively on his mbp1,1
[16:27]  * mvo_ hugs barry
[16:27] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:27] <cjwatson> I'm a bit worried that http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-foundations-maverick-alpha-3.html has been basically static for the last week
[16:27] <cjwatson> please have a look and see if there's anything easy you can pick off :-)
[16:28] <robbiew> reminder to fill out https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/Foundations ;)
[16:28] <cjwatson> I realise a lot of things will likely get moving at the sprint, but I tend to feel a bit uncomfortable in release meetings when I have to say that there's been no feature progress
[16:28] <robbiew> and https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick/CrossTeam, if you need to
[16:28] <doko> ok, will update some specs
[16:28]  * barry too
[16:29]  * mvo_ needs to do that too
[16:30] <cjwatson> ok, anything else?
[16:31] <doko> Schland!!!
[16:32] <mvo_> doko++
[16:32] <robbiew> lol
[16:33] <ev> work items> I've not been marking mine as completed as the installer design has changed slightly and created/deleted quite a few.  I'll clean that up this weekend, hopefully not offsetting the total too much.
[16:33] <dholbach> me hugs doko and mvo_
[16:34] <cjwatson> yeah, it's perhaps unfortunate that the graph doesn't colour inprogress differently
[16:34] <cjwatson> I wonder if it ought to
[16:34] <cjwatson> I have a lot of stuff inprogress upstream but not yet landed
[16:35] <barry> cjwatson: i think it should
[16:35] <lool> cjwatson: (-fPIE, is this for upstart?  The original version was correct since it was a CFLAGS= passed to configure http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28983614/upstart_0.6.0-3_0.6.0-4.diff.gz probably the dh 7 refactoring)
[16:35] <lool> will discuss after the meeting
[16:35] <ev> what I'd really like is having (TODO, DONE, and X%), where X% could be how much of the task you estimate to be done.
[16:35] <robbiew> hmm
[16:36] <cjwatson> mm, of course that may just mean the WIs are insufficiently fine-grained
[16:36] <robbiew> well..if you have to estimate a task being done...perhaps the task should be broken in to more tasks ;)
[16:36] <ev> good points
[16:36] <cjwatson> but it can get a bit silly if you break down too much, hard to say
[16:36] <robbiew> true
[16:36] <ev> sometimes you just don't know what's involved
[16:36] <ev> and adding additional work items breaks the burndown
[16:37] <robbiew> ev: how so?
[16:37] <robbiew> you mean the trend line?
[16:37] <mvo_> yeah, while I like WI I find it hard to plan them in adavance too well
[16:37] <ev> yes
[16:37] <robbiew> eh...don't worry about that...I'd rather you add work items
[16:37] <ev> noted
[16:38] <lool> problem is you cant even budget, one work item is one vertical unit on the chart; I think the server team extends them to be of variable size; one workaround is to budget workitems with Research day1: TODO, Research day2: TODO, Implementation day1: TODO etc.
[16:38] <lool> (we have the same problems wiht Linaro workitems being added :)
[16:39] <ev> heh
[16:39] <robbiew> imo, the burndowns are useful for knowing how much work we have left to do
[16:39] <robbiew> and for knowing when we need to defer/drop
[16:39] <robbiew> that's about it
[16:40] <robbiew> but those are REALLY usefull
[16:40] <robbiew> and something we didn't have before
[16:40] <robbiew> anything beyond those uses...gets complicated and really needs a dedicated engineer to address them all, imo
[16:41] <robbiew>  /soapbox speech
[16:41] <cjwatson> I'll have a word with pitti and see if he thinks a separate category for inprogress makes sense; that's a relatively simple change
[16:42] <cjwatson> I agree that more serious development probably gets out of scope pretty quickly
[16:42] <cjwatson> ok, anything else?
[16:43] <ev> nothing here
[16:43] <barry> nope
[16:43] <robbiew> nope
[16:43] <psurbhi> could submitted upstream be a good milestone? because thats very close to "Done"
[16:44] <doko> depends much on the work item
[16:44] <psurbhi> ok
[16:45] <cjwatson> yeah, it varies a lot, sometimes that's close to done, sometimes that's just the first step in a safa
[16:45] <cjwatson> er, saga
[16:45] <psurbhi> ok
[16:45] <cjwatson> anyway, perhaps further work items discussion -> #ubuntu-devel
[16:45] <cjwatson> thanks all
[16:45] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[16:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
[16:45] <mvo_> thanks
[16:46] <psurbhi> thanks
[16:47] <ev> thanks
[18:56] <Rhonda> finished at 10:45?
[18:56] <Rhonda> Shouldn't MootBot report times in UTC?
[19:18] <soren> Rhonda: It should. It never did, though.
[19:19] <soren> Rhonda: I think it's UTC-5 or something weird like that.
[19:19] <Rhonda> The person running it should just export TZ=UTC before starting the bot.
[19:19] <Rhonda> That should fix it.
[19:21] <soren> I think the fix is well-known.
[19:25] <soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mootbot/+bug/138905
[20:02] <highvoltage> hey!
[20:03] <highvoltage> am I timezone confused or is it edubuntu meeting time?
[20:05] <czajkowski> highvoltage: you're always confused :)
[20:05] <ScottK> Right, but he was specific about the type of confusion.
[20:05] <highvoltage> I guess
[20:06] <czajkowski> ScottK: true :)
[20:08]  * highvoltage gets back to another meeting that was paused...