[02:19] <Takyoji> Bleh, I feel pathetic that I haven't taught my parents in depth of how to use a computer
[02:27] <kermit> you dont want them online
[02:27] <kermit> they'll email you and message you and post to your facebook wall
[02:27] <kermit> and want to video chat
[02:27] <kermit> and play yahoo games
[02:29] <Takyoji> My mother already uses Facebook. :P
[02:30] <Takyoji> all she currently uses is Firefox and Evolution.
[02:30] <Takyoji> And all my father uses is Evolution.
[02:34] <Takyoji> otherwise it would be a bit more beneficial for my father since he barely has an computer knowledge, and that's really the kind of thing he needs for employment in some cases.
[02:35] <Takyoji> I also have to plan an update procedure for the family desktop as well yet
[02:35] <Takyoji> I have yet to boot the 10.04 LiveCD to see if the system even functions. :P
[02:38] <Takyoji> Anyone have a spare LCD monitor they're willing to sell?
[03:09] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Only if you're paying enough to replace it with :P
[03:14]  * Takyoji_ wonders if anyone is alive
[03:16]  * tonyyarusso is
[03:16] <tonyyarusso> boring, but alive
[03:16] <Takyoji_> Is there a method to upgrade from 9.04 to 10.04?
[03:16] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: clincally anyways :P
[03:16] <Takyoji_> Without having to upgrade to 9.10 first?
[03:17] <tonyyarusso> no
[03:17] <Takyoji_> alright, I'll do the long way then
[03:39] <Takyoji> Yay
[03:40] <Takyoji> Didn't know they added this: http://www.liberiangeek.net/2010/06/enable-users-to-login-automatically-without-passwords-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx/
[03:40] <Takyoji> That makes my life simpler
[03:40] <Takyoji> Because there was an annoying workaround that you'd have to do in order to do it with GDM
[05:06] <Takyoji> Anyone used BURG at all?
[05:07] <Takyoji> of which is basically graphical GRUB
[07:50] <_diablo> Takyoji: I've seen it, but no, never tried it
[07:51] <Takyoji> Well that was an interesting case. I upgraded the family desktop to 10.04, and when I popped in my mother's account, the cursor was invisible.
[08:10] <_diablo> whoa. weird
[08:10] <Takyoji> And setting the cursor via the Appearance panel didn't do anything
[08:10] <_diablo> yeah, I never update anything. I find a fresh install to be by far the cleanest way of dealing with these things
[08:11] <Takyoji> So I had to run: sudo update-alternatives --config x-cursor-theme
[08:11] <Takyoji> to basically reset the cursor theme system-wide
[08:14] <Takyoji> and of course it worked thereafter just fine
[08:23] <Takyoji> Ooo, software-center seems to be getting more orderly of categorization
[08:24] <Takyoji> However "Office" and "Accessories" are not organized into subcategories yet..
[08:31] <_diablo> hmmmm, odd
[08:32] <Takyoji> But still, it's progress!
[08:32] <_diablo> yup!
[08:32] <_diablo> night all
[08:32] <Takyoji> Night
[20:18] <Takyoji> For LPIC, do you have to go step-by-step, or just test for any level of the certification?
[20:19] <Takyoji> ahh, I guess it is a prerequisite to have the prior certification.
[20:24] <Obsidian1723> Start at 1
[20:24] <Obsidian1723> Honestly, all you need for Linux is the Linux+
[20:25] <Obsidian1723> I've never seen anyon e ask for a RHCE, UCP, LPICx, etc
[20:25] <Obsidian1723> The path I wsent is DCSE > Network+ > Linux+ > going for Secureity+ and then a CISSP.
[20:25] <Obsidian1723> Out of a 900 perfect score on the Linux+, I got 850.
[20:26] <Obsidian1723> With the LPICs, if you let them lapse, you must start all the way over, like with Cisco.
[20:29] <Takyoji> I could get Linux+ done any day. :P
[20:30] <Takyoji> last time I checked the objectives of it
[20:32] <Obsidian1723> Why not do it then?
[20:32] <Obsidian1723> I'm simply stating that with Linux, certs aren't really needed - except to get by HR.
[20:34] <kermit> Obsidian1723: haha yeah i was juts telling a friend that
[20:35] <kermit> he suggested we go get certs togerther.. i said one cert on my otherwise non existant resume would look worse than none.
[20:35] <Obsidian1723> I've never seen anyone ask for a Linux cert.
[20:35] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[20:35] <Obsidian1723> certs alone = bad
[20:35] <Obsidian1723> experience alone = bad
[20:35] <Obsidian1723> both together = good
[20:36] <Obsidian1723> If push comes to shove, one vs the other, experience is better.
[20:36] <Obsidian1723> all certs do is say that you have put i nthe time and can meet a certain standard.
[20:36] <Obsidian1723> or at least you SHOULD be able to.
[20:36] <kermit> i just want to put "1983: c64 -> 1987: DOS -> 1996: linux    and on rare occation, some win" and leave the rest blank ;)
[20:36] <kermit> on my resume
[20:37] <Obsidian1723> Certs is a nice CYA for HR. "Well Jim, when Tom took down the entire network by mistake, he SAID he was a network enigeer" vs " Well Jim, Tom had an impressive resume with experience and the certs, so he should have known better."
[20:38] <Takyoji> Considering I'm generally freelance, I'd only be able to go along the lines of a work portfolio since I haven't actually "worked" on an hourly basis within a company, yes?
[20:38] <kermit> i may go for an "i've never needed a 'job' before, so until i figure out how to properly market myself, you're going to get a steal for my services." approach.
[20:38] <Obsidian1723> more project based, yeah
[20:39] <kermit> the trick with job hunting is to not sound arrogant, but still sound usefu
[20:39] <kermit> l
[20:39] <Obsidian1723> I use certs because then my customers can have a certified tech, and my employer can also benefit at my dayjob.
[20:39] <Takyoji> Because my mother is just forcing me to do the ol' flippin' burgers at a fast food restaurant. xP
[20:40] <Takyoji> and I can certainly get better employment than that.
[20:40] <Obsidian1723> kermit, yeah, but more than that. The trick is to demonstrate and show that "Here is what I have done in the past. Here is what I can do for you now and in the future." Find a need and fulfill it for them.
[20:40] <Obsidian1723> Tak, maybe.
[20:40] <Obsidian1723> How old are you?
[20:41] <Takyoji> 18
[20:41] <kermit> Takyoji: omg i'm twice as old as you
[20:41] <Obsidian1723> Well, you may get in somewhere, youth is on your side, but not experience.
[20:41] <Takyoji> I've always done freelance, I haven't had an hourly job
[20:41]  * kermit thanks Obsidian1723 for being older
[20:41] <Obsidian1723> I'm 43. Been at this whole computer deal since the late 70s.
[20:41] <Obsidian1723> heh
[20:42] <kermit> Obsidian1723:  are you mark christiansen?
[20:42] <kermit> hmm no he wouldnt IRC that much
[20:42] <Obsidian1723> Nope
[20:42] <Obsidian1723> heh I used to irc a lot more in the past. who is Mark?
[20:43] <Takyoji> I've had a couple years of web design, web development, and server administration.
[20:43] <kermit> Obsidian1723: he ran an ISP until 2000
[20:44] <Takyoji> PHP for at least 5 or so years now.
[20:44] <kermit> Obsidian1723: do you remember twinlink, angmar, or orbis?
[20:44] <Obsidian1723> ah
[20:44] <Obsidian1723> Twinlink, yeah
[20:45] <kermit> i was on there a lot in 1988
[20:45] <Obsidian1723> I used to work for a local ISP back in 1996
[20:45] <kermit> were you on there?
[20:45] <Obsidian1723> No.
[20:45] <Obsidian1723> I used to work for a local ISP
[20:46] <Obsidian1723> MinnNet Communications, Inc.
[20:47] <Obsidian1723> Remember Bitstream Underground and Winternet?
[20:47] <kermit> i recall the name winternet
[20:47] <kermit> minnet or muinet?
[20:47] <kermit> i was on muinet
[20:47] <Obsidian1723> old skool
[20:47] <Obsidian1723> MinnNet
[20:48] <Obsidian1723> Remember when the bums started a fire and took out the communications fo Minneapolis?
[20:54] <kermit> haha yeah
[21:04] <Obsidian1723> good times back then.
[21:07] <kermit> Obsidian1723: remember when there was real competition for internet access?
[21:07] <kermit> that was good times, in a somewhat nefarious way ;)
[21:09] <Obsidian1723> yeah, now we are looking at net netruality going away.
[21:10] <Obsidian1723> Takyoji, I'm curious.. if the Linux+ is so easy, why haven't you got one yet?
[21:10] <Obsidian1723> kermit, ever meet Mike Horwath?
[21:10] <kermit> the name doesnt sound familiar
[21:11] <Obsidian1723> Old linux geek from back in the day. He was the admin for Visi, now IPHouse
[21:12] <Takyoji> Obsidian1723: I will. :P
[21:12] <kermit> i hear visi is taking tons of interviews
[21:12] <kermit> but not hiring anyone
[21:13] <Takyoji> Otherwise I just got out of high school a few months ago, and getting it during high school would be bit useless generally
[21:13] <Takyoji> as it expires over time if I remember correctly
[21:13] <_diablo> for getting into server admin work, what should I do to even start getting into it? I've been setting up my own for a while, but don't really know things formally. Should I be aiming for A+ and such?
[21:13] <_diablo> (just graduated college with a useless degree)
[21:14] <Takyoji> Isn't A+ basic hardware components and understanding how an Windows boots?
[21:14] <kermit> the impression i have being an admin isnt somehting you 'get into'.. its somehting you just are.
[21:14] <Takyoji> how Windows boots*
[21:15] <_diablo> Takyoji: yeah, but all the jobs that I've seen in IT require it... :(
[21:15] <Takyoji> and hardware troubleshooting
[21:15] <_diablo> or even just how to get into IT work e.g. help desk, school networking, administration
[21:15] <_diablo> kermit: how did you start?
[21:16] <kermit> _diablo: i've been using linux since 1996 almost exclusively
[21:16] <kermit>  i went from dos to linux, rarely using win
[21:16] <Takyoji> as for Linux+, apparently you can also get LPIC-1 as well with it
[21:16] <_diablo> kermit: but what do you do for work?
[21:16] <kermit> _diablo: i'm unemployeed.. i guess you'd call me a 'linux systems engineer'
[21:16] <kermit> i'll do admin or dev
[21:16] <_diablo> ah, okay. fair enough
[21:17] <kermit> _diablo: i have the opposite problem as you, i have tons of skills but nothing to put on a resume for degrees/certs
[21:18] <_diablo> kermit: yeah, I have no IT degree or cert... Just a fairly useless econ degree. Just graduated and looking for any job now, even mcdonald's
[21:24] <Obsidian1723> Linux+ is lifetime.
[21:24] <kermit> _diablo: no work in econ?
[21:24] <_diablo> kermit: no, not really :( I don't even know where to start
[21:25] <Takyoji> I'm a bit skeptical of lifetime certifications
[21:25] <kermit> _diablo: i dont know much about college but i thought they sort of take care of job placement or push you in the right direction
[21:26] <Obsidian1723> not I.. I dont just get it ands camp on it. I get it and show that I have done XYZ since then.
[21:26] <Takyoji> at least it shows a person jumped through the basic hoop
[21:26] <Takyoji> but yes
[21:26] <_diablo> kermit: yeah, not really. they're not so great lol. they have 55k ppl
[21:27] <kermit> _diablo: which school?
[21:27] <_diablo> kermit: UMN
[21:29]  * Takyoji wonders if anyone has an opinion regarding Dakota County Technical College
[21:29] <kermit> _diablo: so they just give you a degree and wave goodby?
[21:46] <_diablo> kermit: yeah, basically
[21:46] <_diablo> Takyoji: no knowledge of it
[21:47] <Obsidian1723> Tak, if Linux+ was basic, mopre people wpould have it. dont underestimate it.
[21:54] <Takyoji> By the way, what does TFTP lack that FTP has?
[22:05] <kermit> lack? its just totally different
[22:06] <kermit> It cannot list directories, and currently has no provisions for user authentication.
[22:07] <Takyoji> ahh
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> Better to use SFTp
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> sftp
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> grrr
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> SFTP
[22:21] <Obsidian1723> I'd onlyu really use TFTP for a PXE/Netboot environment.
[22:22] <kermit> and flashing routers
[22:24] <Takyoji> Well yea, I'd never use anything unencrypted.
[22:24] <Takyoji> except when TFTP is the only thing possible for a device
[22:26] <kermit> yeah i imagine anyone could inject code into the receiving device fairly easily that way
[22:41] <_diablo> kermit: warkitting
[22:41] <_diablo> http://www.indiana.edu/~phishing/papers/warkit.pdf
[22:49] <Obsidian1723> true kermit
[23:41]  * Takyoji wonders if anyone happens to know of a decent web service out there for wardriving and mapping wireless networks
[23:49] <Obsidian1723> I just use nmap
[23:56] <_diablo> aircrack-ng
[23:57] <Takyoji> I'm talking about aggregates though
[23:57] <Takyoji> Like WiGLE