wgrantWow, congrats lifeless.00:33
poolieyes, indeed00:33
pooliehi wgrant00:33
wgrantMorning poolie.00:34
pooliei think robert's new role will have benefits for you in particular00:34
pooliebeing another step towards openness and ease of contribution00:35
poolie"think or hope" i suppose00:35
poolieleonardr: did you read jml's lep about api access to authentication tokens?00:40
lifelessthumper: thanks00:41
lifelesswgrant: thanks; poolie: thanks00:42
pooliei miss you lifelesS!00:42
lifelessalready? I'm not gone till Monday :)00:45
pooliewell, i did briefly00:45
lifelessand even then, I think its appropriate to think of it as expanding - like my waistline - the bzr team is definitely able to call on me to discuss stuff :)00:45
lifelessoh, or did you mean as an office-mate00:46
poolieyes, that's what i meant00:46
lifelessrighto ! - 5 hours sleep last night, but boy, better sleep than I had been getting00:46
lifelesshave seen allergy doctor this morning00:46
lifelessso; finally; no medical stuff to do for a month; no frenzy; a feeling of peace surrounds me :)00:47
wgrantlifeless: I'm sure we can invoke an architecture frenzy for you :P00:48
lifelesshmm, are we in testfix mode I wonder00:59
lifeless  restricted_families = archive_arch_set.getRestrictedfamilies(self)00:59
lifelessForbiddenAttribute: ('getRestrictedfamilies', <lp.soyuz.model.archivearch.ArchiveArchSet object at 0x143bc190>)00:59
lifelessseems unrelated to oops infrastructure changes01:00
lifelessah yes.01:01
thumperlifeless: a feeling of peace except for the frantic travelling coming?01:51
lifelessthumper: compared to the last three months, its quiet01:53
ajmitchlifeless: great, so I can ask you all my LP questions now? :)02:01
lifelessNot that that would seem to be any different02:02
wgrantCan I coerce someone into ec2landing https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/faster-and-more-general-getBuildQueueSizes/+merge/28476 ?02:38
lifelesswgrant: does that fix henninge's patch ?02:40
lifelessrev 11093 seems to break everything, or perhaps its just my branch it breaks.02:41
lifelessif not, then no, I can't be coerced.02:41
wgrantYou mean jelmer's/02:41
lifelessah yeah02:41
lifelessthe one reviewed by02:41
wgrantThat is a bit confusing.02:41
wgrantI wonder why PQM doesn't use --author.02:42
wgrantlifeless: Which is the test that breaks?02:42
lifelesswgrant: pqm doesn't use --author because its not the author.02:43
lifelesslog -n0 shows the people totally accurately.02:43
lifelessalias it on.02:43
wgrantlifeless: Doesn't help for commit notifications.02:43
lifelesswgrant: we should fix that, then.02:43
wgrantIs there a testfix in progress?02:44
lifelessbzr has the real data; this is a presentation issue IMO: fudging it by feeding PQM an approximation you want to see on the outside just leads to harder to work with data.02:44
lifelesswgrant: I'm not sure how to look that up yet.02:45
lifelesswgrant: and today is a bzr day :)02:45
wgrantlifeless: Well, if you tell me which test fails, I will fix it. It's just an s/f/F/.02:45
lifelessyu have mail02:47
lifelessde nada02:48
wgrantDid that get *CPed* without being EC2'd?02:54
lifelessda wtf02:59
poolielifeless: i don't know the state of the committed/released distinction02:59
pooliethere are various contradictory bugs03:00
pooliei don't think it's useful03:00
pooliein that it makes noise while simplifying reality too much to be useful03:00
pooliebut maybe that's just me03:00
lifelessI really don't like the noise when a release happens03:00
lifelessThe 'it is available to the user to use now' aspect is good though.03:00
lifelessperhaps doing daily releases would address it ?03:00
lifeless(e.g. edge :))03:01
pooliethat's one element of my dissatisfaction03:01
poolie'fix released' does not aiui reliably mean you will see the fix, even on edge03:01
pooliedoing daily releases would be good03:02
poolieit wouldn't reduce the amount of noise03:02
lifelesswhats one of the bug numbers you saw03:03
poolieistm that a lean view of the process is: it's waiting, it's in progress, it's done03:03
lifelessI'm wondering if I'm missing a subscription somewhere03:03
pooliebug 59279203:03
lifelessyeah, I need to tweak my subscriptions03:03
lifeless\o/ more mail.03:03
wgrantpoolie: You're saying that's not fixed on edge?03:04
lifelesspoolie: perhaps there are two clients here - the feature requestor and the dev asking 'do I have more to do' ?03:04
pooliewgrant: that was a bug that sent me mail, i'm not saying it is or isn't fixed on edge03:04
poolielifeless: there are03:05
pooliethe feature requester wants to know "is it worth me testing whether it's really fixed"03:05
poolieor "bothering to try that again" etc03:05
lifelessif we try we can probably make both deeply unhappy03:05
lifelessoops, thats the wrong way around :)03:05
poolieistm that a state change is not enough03:06
pooliewithout saying "this is live on edge now" or "this will be in bzr2.2b4"03:06
lifelessI need a volunteer at the epic, with a 2 minute 'lightning talk' screen03:07
thumperlifeless: in a certain light, isn't the point of --author to say who the author of the code is?03:09
thumperlifeless: a merge isn't really code03:09
thumperso pqm could be the committer, and set the author03:09
thumperwhich is what I think many people think like03:10
lifelessthumper: if you squint real real hard, but both Aaron and I have argued that this is working around a bug rather than fixing the root cause.03:10
lifelessthumper: if we were sending in *patches* it would be trivially correct to use --author03:10
* thumper cranks up the muzak03:11
lifelesscode in an elevator?03:11
thumpermatrix soundtrack03:12
wgrantthumper: So, how do I get this testfix merged?03:57
* thumper looks up03:57
thumperwgrant: eh?03:57
thumperwhat's broken?03:57
foxxtrotIs there an easy way to run all the windmill tests in a given JS file? I know you can bin/test PATH/TO/PYTHON/FILE.py but that doesn't work for a JS file03:57
wgrantprod_lp, at least, but devel should be too.03:57
lifelesswgrant: oh right03:57
lifelesswgrant: whats the branch, I'll ec2land it03:57
wgrantlifeless: Is that going to work with [testfix]?03:58
lifelessI don't know the process yet :)03:58
lifelessthumper: how does one land a testfix fixing branch03:58
wgranthttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/testfix-getRestrictedfamilies is the branch. Trivial -- there were just some references in db-devel that were merged in while the branch was landing.03:58
lifelessthumper: directly, not ec2land ?03:58
thumperfor a test fix, normally yes, but...03:59
thumperit depends on the extent of the fix03:59
thumpersince buildbot is broken anyway03:59
thumperadding an extra ec2 run doesn't add anything03:59
wgrantAll the archive and PPA tests pass fine.04:00
wgrantWhich is, I believe, all that failed in lifeless' run.04:00
wgrantAlthough I haven't worked out how to get a list from the gzipped thing yet.04:00
lifelesswgrant: gunzip -c | subunit-filter | subunit-ls04:01
lifelesswgrant: or04:01
lifelessgunzip -c | testr load; testr failing04:01
lifelessits all about the onions04:02
lifelessif you want fancy04:02
lifelessgunzip -c | tribunal -04:02
lifelessnow thats sexy04:02
thumperI'd just like the failing tests back in the email body :(04:03
lifelessthumper: they are04:03
wgrantthumper: +104:03
lifelessaren't they ?04:03
lifelessoh right, I mailed bac and mars when jml forwarded me mail04:03
lifelessits very shallow. Lets do it at the epic.04:03
* thumper nods04:04
lifelessthumper: can you pqm-submit wgrants branch? the change is a three-liner, one char per line ;)04:04
lifelessthumper: (given you're all setup for it)04:04
lifelessI've got ec2land setup, not pqm-submit yet.04:04
lifelessHmm, I should make hydrazine talk lp targets to04:04
thumperI only have devel and db-devel set up04:05
thumperI should be able to do it without too much problem though04:05
lifelessit should land on devel fine.04:05
lifelessin devel if I do a missing on his branch I see just one commit04:05
wgrantI'm not sure if this will work on production-devel, since I can't see it.04:05
thumperit seems the error isn't on devel is it?04:05
wgrantBut it should be fine.04:05
wgrantdevel is broken.04:05
lifelessdevel is naffed too04:05
wgrantI'm not sure if there's a failure yet, but it is broken.04:05
thumperthe devel failure was a weird twisted one04:06
thumperI'll land wgrants04:06
wgrantthumper: Thanks04:06
wgrantlifeless: How do I run tests with testrepository?04:06
wgrantquickstart doesn't say.04:07
lifelesstestr run04:08
wgrantAh, I presumed I'd have to pipe 'testr failing' in or something.04:08
lifelesswgrant: you can (testr load - in the quickstart)04:09
lifelessbut you can also run tests directly if there is a .testr.conf04:09
lifelessplease file a bug though04:09
lifelessthat should be polished more04:09
thumperbzr crashed04:09
thumperbzr pqm-submit -m "[testfix][r=thumper] getRestrictedfamilies camel case fixup." --public-location=lp:~wgrant/launchpad/testfix-getRestrictedfamilies --ignore-local --submit-branch=../devel04:10
thumperthat is what I tried04:10
thumperand it crashed04:10
wgrantWhat did it complain about?04:10
MuscovyDoes anyone know anything about: createlang: language installation failed: ERROR:  could not access file "$libdir/plpython": No such file or directory ? It happens in an updated default install of 10.04 server.04:10
MuscovyIt happens during "make schema".04:11
wgrantMuscovy: Make sure you have postgresql-plpython-8.3 or postgresql-plpython-8.4 installed, depending on which version of PostgreSQL you're using.04:11
MuscovyThanks, I'll try that.04:11
thumperlifeless: any idea why my pqm-submit line doesn't work?04:12
lifelessthumper: does your ../devel have a submit_thingy setting ?04:13
thumperwgrant: I'll pull your branch into my testfix04:13
thumperlifeless: yes04:13
lifelessbzr info on it should say04:13
lifelessthumper:  then no04:13
wgrantthumper: Sounds reasonable.04:13
lifelessI'd like to delete pqm-submit soon04:13
wgrantBut it needs to go to p-d too.04:13
lifelesswgrant: the magic of auto merge should do that, no ?04:13
wgrantlifeless: I really hope that production-devel isn't auto-merging anything.04:13
lifelessdevel being the top of the input tree04:13
lifelessoh right04:13
lifelessI meant after it percolates to db-devel04:14
thumperlifeless: but not production devel04:14
lifelesswgrant: mmm, I disagree on that hope; but there are some necessary conditions to make it safe that aren't true today.04:14
wgrantlifeless: Well, OK, pre-MergeWorkflowDraft.04:15
wgrantIs that still happening, what with our new overlord?04:16
thumperwgrant: branch in the pipe04:17
lifelessdunno, you'll need to ask him04:17
wgrantlifeless: Is it still happening?04:17
lifelesswgrant: :P I was referring to jml, he of the hacking-like-an-evil-overlord talk04:17
wgrantHeh, indeed.04:18
lifelesswgrant: not that he can answer the question, just for fun.04:18
lifelessI think that reducing developer friction is important04:18
lifelessthat process change should do that, and if there is an available hacker doing it, great.04:19
lifelessI would like to look a little deeper at how concept -> production all works04:19
lifelesspossibly up the dial on risk mitigation and down on risk avoidance04:20
lifelessthen push rate-of-change up04:20
lifelessI hope thats not uselessly vague. I haven't dug into the precise details of the process in some time - before buildbot - so Monday I'll be *very* busy indeed :)04:21
lifelessconcretely, I think we court risk by doing big rollouts04:23
lifelessthis is observation over years04:23
lifelessso we put a lot of effort into making sure nothing can go wrong in the rollout : but because its always a big change, something always does.04:24
lifelessFSVO always04:24
lifeless30 man-days of changes, more or less.04:24
lifelesssmaller rollouts would have less risk.04:24
lifelessand if the risk handling stuff is non-linear, then smaller rollouts may be better than just the ratio of sizes-included.04:25
wgrantBut this requires the ability to handle a crisis effectively at any time.04:25
lifelessit may be easier to figure out what *can* go wrong looking at a smaller rollout, and so be more prepared for what-ifs.04:25
wgrantWhich is certainly not the case now.04:26
lifelesswgrant: not quite true. It requires the ability to handle a crisis starting within some time window T of the rollout04:26
lifelessyou could, for instance, have an automerge-wait-for-losa-to-hit-a-red-button situation04:27
lifelessand every losa at start of shift could assess the risk, and hit the button.04:27
lifelessif the relevant people are around-and-will-be-for-say-2-hours04:27
* lifeless handwaves furiously04:27
lifelessif you're interested in helping shape something like that, say so04:28
lifelessI can chat about it with folk at the epic and see if we can give you a set of constraints and requirements04:28
lifelessI mean to say: this is something that anyone interested should be able to work on.04:31
lifelessand while I'm interested, I'm unlikely to have personal directed time on it immediately. But I'd love to see things become easier for everyone :)04:32
thumperwgrant: I'm applying your fix to the prod-devel branch too04:58
wgrantthumper: Thanks.04:58
spmfwiw, recognising it is handwaving, we don't look after just LP. we have 3 or 4 (depending on how you count it) major systems. so the implicit assumption that we can treat LP as special/above the others is ... hrm... unwise is harsher than I want, but you get the idea. So 'start of shift, make a choice' stuff would not be great I'm thinking05:07
wgrantspm: Your name says you only have two services, so any of the others are figments of your imagination. QED.05:11
* spm ponders if suspending wgrants account in retribution would 1. be overkill 2. pointless as he'd hack his way back in anyway 3. seen to be an excessive response 4.. there is no 4.05:13
spmlifeless: fwiw#2, yesterdays rollout was incredibly smooth. there were internal comments that a crisis needed to be manufactured so tom'd believe we were actually working. Having said that. 1hr 15 in the actual rollout portion of really quite intense very procedural Do X, then Y; isn't a walk in the sunshine either. :-)05:17
wgrantWhy does it take so long?05:18
wgrantDB upgrades?05:18
spmthat's part of it, but no means all.05:19
spma basic breakdown: 10-15 mins to breakout to R/O and be able to do the DB updates. This includes shutting down the services that currently can't be kept up. code*, soyuz* etc05:20
spmDB updates themselves, which can vary widely. 20-30 mins'd be the norm05:20
spmre-enable the DB to be live again; restart all the app servers; verify; restart all the shutdowns.05:21
wgrantHm, OK.05:22
spmAnd also ignores about 60 minutes of moderately intense prep to get to that stage :-)05:23
wgrantPrebuilding the new trees on all machines and such?05:24
spmcrontabs, nagios, irc topics, etc yup05:25
spmverifying the cowboys that are live are known cowboys and are included05:25
lifelessspm: I know you have massive widespread responsibilities05:42
lifelessspm: for start of shift, read 'appropriate time' : I find dwelling too much on the minutiae distracts from the concept.05:42
lifelessspm: I'd _love_ it if everything that makes a rollout slow (e.g. shutting down services to go ro) had bugs. And I knew the bug numbers.05:43
lifelessspm: do you know if that is the case?05:43
spmnot sure tbh. some parts we have raised in the past. whether they became bugs, probably not.05:43
lifelessI'm a data monster, really ;)05:44
spmI hadn't noticed? This is very much news to me!05:44
spmdamn. left my sarcasm meter on. it just exploded.05:44
spmI guess what I'm not saying above - ideally I (personally!) don't want us to be yay/nay a rollout except in *exceptional* circumstances. like edge. it is it assumed it will work; if it doesn't we handle said failure gracefully, and that's the point we'd get involved - but the failure is not critical. Not a respond now event. More a respond soonish.05:46
lifelessthat makes sense to me05:48
lifelessthe nuance here, is that I was proposing you assess the surrounding support for dealing with stuff - controlling the timing, not the do/not do.05:48
spmor perhaps: it's your code, your system (tho recognising that is an artificial distinction with ownership there...); if you want X, we'll make it so, but pls retain 'ownership' of the responsibility. kinda thiungy.05:48
lifelessbecause you are the response team. You know if you're insanely busy, or just flat out busy.05:48
spmahh I see05:48
lifelesswe together provide launchpad.net - its lp-devs + lp-managers, not lp-devs alone or lp-managers alone05:49
lifeless(which you know)05:49
spmI try to forget....05:49
lifelessback to the example - if there was a buildd change, you might want lamont available05:51
lifelessso you'd say 'delayed to $his tz'05:51
lifelessbut most changes are relatively shallow and would just be 'doit'05:52
spmI'd, again very much personally!!!, be very keen if lp prod rollouts were much like edge is now. just a matter of course and all done purty much automagically. The key reason being a somehwat selfish one - is that makes our life much easier. if the rollout is so smooth that simplish scripting can do; then problems are also equally trivial to solve05:52
thumperlifeless: hey, as your new role as TA, you can give out rc's for production-devel05:52
thumperlifeless: want to give me an RC for wgrant's fix?05:52
lifelessthumper: What are the implications here :) - its day -2 :P05:52
thumpernot much in this case, I'm just dotting the i's05:53
spmactually - if there's a buildd change, I don't believe we have too many options but to wait for him. tbh, not sure of the fine detail there.05:53
lifelessspm: so you see the point :)05:53
spmoh yes.05:53
thumperlifeless: I could equally go release-critical=thumper, but I thought you might like your name there :)05:53
lifelessspm: FTR, I'm a huge fan a automation. I was surprised by Tom's apparent disinterest in the recent thread about detecting stale trees or whatever it was.05:53
lifelessthumper: use yours ;)05:54
lifelessthumper: When I'm doooog tired after that terrible hotel, iz not a good time to do new things ;)05:54
spmwhich thread was that, don't recall seeing it myself?05:54
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-zzz
adeuringgood morning08:13
wgrantYay, buildbot loves me.08:46
spmnah, that was me forcing a build :-)08:46
spmthumper: wgrant: edge1: canonical.database.revision.InvalidDatabaseRevision: patch-2207-56-0.sql has been applied to the database but does not exist in this source code tree. You probably want to run 'make schema'. <== is that you guys causing that?08:47
wgrantspm: stable is out of date.08:48
spmoh bah.08:48
wgrantSince it broke soon after db-stable was merged.08:48
wgrantbuildbot is happy now, though.08:48
wgrantSo it should pull soon.08:48
spmwe can hop. I've reverted the edge update; I guess we'll find out this timish tomorrow if edge is happy again08:49
spmhope too08:49
wgrantspm: Heh, it's just pulled now.08:51
=== lionel_ is now known as lionel
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
jtvwgrant, do you know of any recipe builds that should work on either dogfood or staging so we can Q/A your change to launchpad-buildd?11:16
wgrantjtv: I don't know if staging works yet, but I may be able to get something working on dogfood.11:17
wgrant... except that I forget how it interacts with codehosting.11:17
wgrantDoes it use staging or production codehosting?11:17
jtvIt just doesn't have any.  So we may have to fake database records or something.11:18
jtvActually, if it's just for reading from a branch, it uses production codehosting.11:18
wgrantIs buildd-manager running?11:19
* jtv checks11:19
wgrantOh good, I can't log in on DF.11:20
jtvhow jolly11:20
jtvOn the bright side, buildd-manager is indeed running11:21
wgrantbigjools: Any idea why DF won't let me log in?11:26
bigjoolswgrant: checking11:47
wgrantbigjools: Thanks.11:47
bigjools"HTTP Response status from identity URL host is not 200. Got status 404"11:48
wgrantNo provider set up?11:48
bigjoolssome config must have changed somewhere11:48
bigjoolsno idea what that might be11:48
wgrantCan someone please land https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/faster-and-more-general-getBuildQueueSizes/+merge/28476 ?11:59
deryckMorning, all.11:59
bigjoolswgrant: nice, I'll land it12:01
wgrantbigjools: Thanks.12:02
bigjoolswgrant: try again12:23
wgrantbigjools: Failure continues.12:25
wgrantOOPS 2012:25
bigjoolssame problem12:26
bigjoolsthe oops report doesn't do anything useful and print the url it's trying to use12:26
bigjoolsthat would be too useful12:26
wgrantWhat's the OpenID host it's configured to use?12:27
bigjoolsfuck nose12:27
bigjoolsthe config is so convoluted it's hard to work out12:27
bigjools  Module canonical.launchpad.webapp.login, line 183, in render12:27
bigjools    allvhosts.configs[openid_vhost].rooturl)12:27
bigjoolsbut rooturl doesn't exist12:27
wgrantbigjools: You need launchpad/openid_provider_vhost set.12:29
bigjoolsit is12:29
wgrantTo one of your vhosts.12:29
wgrantAnd that vhost has its hostname set?12:29
bigjools404 means it's talking to something at least12:30
wgrantSomething, yes.12:30
bigjoolsbut what....12:30
bigjoolswgrant: please try again, I added some more info to the exception that goes in the oops12:37
wgrantbigjools: Done. 22.12:37
bigjoolsI picked the wrong egg to hack12:39
bigjoolstry again...12:41
wgrantAny luck?12:52
bigjoolsit's trying to access https://login.dogfood.launchpad.net/ which 404s12:53
wgrantYou could just tell it to use login.launchpad.net...12:53
bigjoolsI *could*12:53
wgrantUnless you want c-i-p fun...12:54
bigjoolstrying one last thing before I give up12:54
bigjoolsbah no fair, I have to travel on Sunday when the British GP is on12:54
lifelesswgrant: cip?12:54
wgrantlifeless: canonical-identity-provider.12:55
wgrantCrazy Django thing.12:55
lifelessI remembers12:55
* bigjools shovels more coal into dogfood12:56
=== matsubara-afk is now known as matsubara
bigjoolsstill no dice13:03
=== salgado-afk is now known as salgado
wgrantbigjools: What're you trying to do?13:05
bigjoolspoint df at staging's openid13:06
wgrantHm. It's not working? Firewalled, maybe?13:07
bigjoolschanging the config made zero difference13:07
wgrantThere are three OpenID vhosts -- you changed the right one(s)?13:07
wgrantI've managed to get the wrong one before.13:08
bigjoolsthere's only one in the DF config13:08
bigjoolsand finally too13:08
wgrantYay, it works. Thanks.13:09
bigjoolsnow, food13:10
wgrantIs buildd-manager alive?13:10
wgrantIt apparently was before.13:11
wgrantBut it's not dispatching a recipe build now.13:11
wgrantAh, there it is.13:11
wgrantrubidium really is unbelievably slow.13:17
=== Ursinha-zzz is now known as Ursinha
wgrantjtv: Around?13:25
jtvwgrant: Around.13:26
wgranthttps://code.dogfood.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+recipe/ivle-test/+build/145 just worked. The i386 build seems to be working fine too.13:27
wgrantjtv: ^^13:27
jtvwgrant: \o/13:27
jtvI'll tell lamont that we can roll out13:27
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mtaylormorning lifeless20:53
lifelesshi mtaylor20:55
lifeless'sup ?20:56
mtaylorlifeless: hanging out in dallas. enjoying sitting by the pool hacking20:57
lifelessmtaylor: hacking on blueprints yet ?21:07
mtaylorlifeless: not yet21:08
mtaylorlifeless: currently, actually waiting on some launchpad things to get renamed ... but I'm guessing the losas are busy21:09
lifelesslooks like it21:11
mbarnettyeah, sorry.  I am a bit behind21:14
mbarnettshould be able to get to it this evening, or first thing in the morning central US time.21:14
lifelessgary_poster: got a second ?21:18
gary_posterlifeless, on calls till EoD but can reply for little questions21:18
lifelessits just a 'best way to do' question21:18
lifelessI have this lsprof patch to extract the code into a dedicated module using an event21:19
lifelessit needs either a tweaked, or a whole new, zope.app.publication21:19
lifelessthe tweak is adding the event; the whole new would be landing the 2 upstream patches and upgrading to latest upstream21:19
gary_posterI see21:20
lifelessor I could add the event in the lp tree and reference it there21:20
lifelesswhats the current, usual, practice when fixing something the long term way requires an upstream change? Do we submit the upstream change and then do /whatever/, or do we fork the egg temporarily ?21:21
gary_posterwill answer within half hour or so (sorry)21:23
gary_poster(want to ask questions :-) )21:23
lifelessthats fine21:23
lifelessgiven the ec2land latency it won't make much diff to when it lands.21:23
lifelessIn 40 minutes I'm heading out for 2 hours - pre-flight-chores21:24
lifelessbut its not urgent regardless.21:24
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk
gary_posterlifeless: sorry, calls kept going23:38
gary_posterlifeless: my preference order:23:39
gary_poster1) submit upstream and use upstream (sometimes impractical)23:39
gary_poster2) submit upstream and change locally in LP with one of our many existing subclasses23:39
gary_poster3) submit upstream and use upstream older egg with change (e.g., we're using 3.4.1 and upstream is at 3.5.0: we can try releasing 3.4.2 in addition to getting patch in trunk23:42
gary_poster10) (i.e., we really don't wanna do this but sometimes we have to): make our own branch and make our own egg23:43
gary_posterwith (10) and possibly with (2) a LP bug is appropriate23:43
gary_posterDone, and going23:44
=== gary_poster is now known as gary-afk

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