[00:57] <micahg> bdmurray: PM?
[01:00] <xnox> It is matter of opinion whether ubuntu will use "opinion" status on lp. Any requests for using it now will be marked as "opinion".
[01:02] <lifeless> hah
[04:04] <drew212> ddecator: are you available/around?
[04:04] <ddecator> drew212: yup. what's up?
[04:05] <drew212> i've been wanting to triage bugs outside of firefox, but IDK where to start =P
[04:05] <drew212> ddecator: if a bug doesnt have a specific debugging wiki i'm kindof lost on what to do.
[04:07] <ddecator> drew212: alright. well, the general idea is to make sure there is enough info for the developers to fix the issue. obviously how you do that can depend on the package, but there are some general things we do (apport info, possibly reproduce, etc.)
[04:07] <ddecator> drew212: is there a package you're considering working with?
[04:08] <micahg> drew212: this week's bug day is perfect for you
[04:08] <drew212> ddecator: i want to be fluent enough to work with all packages
[04:08] <ddecator> micahg: oh, good point
[04:09] <ddecator> drew212: good goal! like micahg said, this bugday (starting in a couple of hours) is bugs with unassigned packages. if you want to push yourself a little, look into that and try to assign bugs to packages and then follow through on ones that interest you :)
[04:09] <micahg> drew212: don't be afraid to start it early :)
[04:10] <drew212> micahg: i cant find the hugday wiki, my google-fu isn't workin =X
[04:10] <micahg> drew212: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/
[04:11] <ddecator> drew212: and pedro usually sends out an email to the ML announcing bugdays and providing a link to the wiki page
[04:11] <ddecator> drew212: have i gone through the bugday tools with you yet?
[04:12] <drew212> ddecator: no, give me a second, an old friend is calling me
[04:12] <ddecator> drew212: sure thing. i'll find the wiki page we'll need
[04:13] <micahg> ddecator: should be a link off the page I linked
[04:13] <ddecator> micahg: yah i thought there was but i don't see it..
[04:13] <micahg> ddecator: details for the day, then hugday-tools :)
[04:14] <ddecator> micahg: that's it! thanks :)
[04:53] <drew212> ddecator: i'm back, sorry a buddy of mine stopped by
[04:54] <ddecator> drew212: np. interested in helping out with the bugday?
[04:54] <drew212> yes, i'm kindof busy tomorrow, but i'll do some early =P
[04:56] <ddecator> sounds good. here is the link that describes how to setup the tools: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Tools (you don't have to download the branch, start at the point where you install the package)
[04:59] <drew212> ddecator: jeez, there are a ton of bugs without a package
[04:59] <ddecator> drew212: a TON
[05:00] <drew212> ddecator: what is easiest way to get from the terminal into LP?
[05:00] <drew212> i notice the bug number is listed...
[05:01] <ddecator> where?
[05:01] <drew212> when i use the hugday tools
[05:01] <drew212> 'hugday list'
[05:02] <ddecator> oh, i've never used that command, haha. i usually go to the current bugday's wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100708) then i use the hugday tool to "close" them on that page
[05:03] <drew212> i'm tryin to get better with the terminal =P
[05:04] <drew212> do i have to have it triaged before i mark it as completed, or just find the correct package?
[05:05] <ddecator> find the correct package. for bugdays, the bug is "closed" on the wiki page once the appropriate action has been taken (requesting more info, confirming, etc.) basically if you've done everything that can currently be done with the bug, and there is no point in others looking at it, then you can close it on the wiki
[05:05] <ddecator> looking at it that day*
[05:06] <drew212> ddecator: and what if the work is already done before you do it, close it and put their name on it?
[05:07] <ddecator> drew212: nah, when you close it using the tool it automatically puts your name. if you see they worked on it as part of the bugday, then you can usually ping them here and ask if there was something they still meant to do or if maybe they forgot to close it
[05:10] <drew212> ddecator: well i dont know where to start =X, i'm not very good at assigning packages
[05:12] <ddecator> drew212: nobody is at first :), and sometimes you can be sure. if you have a good hunch, or if you know it's related to a group of packages, then you can find a starting place for it. you can always request more info to help you determine the right package too.
[05:12] <ddecator> drew212: find one that sounds like you know what it is involving, and you can always ask here if you are unsure :)
[05:13] <drew212> would bug 592726 be a flash bug?
[05:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 592726 in ubuntu "system lockup within minutes when running flash video (affects: 1) (heat: 151)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592726
[05:13]  * ddecator looking
[05:16] <drew212> ddecator: i'm searching upstream
[05:17] <ddecator> if X is locking up, it might be the graphics driver not agreeing with flash. i would ask them for the output of "lspci | grep VGA" so we can see if there are other reports of the same driver causing X to lockup
[05:19] <ddecator> drew212: it'd also be good to have them clarify if it only happens on pages with flash, or if it always happens on pages with flash but other times as well
[08:15] <d1b> hi - i was told to come here so i can point out a bug that has what appears to be a trivial fix
[08:18] <d1b> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdecrypt/+bug/574237
[08:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 574237 in gdecrypt (Ubuntu) "gdecrypt does not start - window appears for a blink, thats it. If I run gdecrypt in the console it says "/usr/bin/env: python2.5: No such file or directory" (affects: 9) (dups: 1) (heat: 94)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:23] <ddecator> huh, surprised that hasn't already been fixed
[08:24] <d1b> ditto
[08:26] <ddecator> i'm pulling the branch now to see what's up
[08:27] <ddecator> huh, only shows up in those two files
[08:44] <ddecator> d1b: k, made the change, pushed to LP, and requested a merge. not sure if i followed the format the dev will want, but we'll see
[09:09] <d1b> ok
[09:35] <BUGabundo_remote> morning, Turtles
[09:38] <maxwellian> What time does the bug day end, UTC?
[09:43] <abhi_nav> request to approve my membership
[09:51] <thekorn> maxwellian, hugdays usually have no ends ;) - but as all all-day events in the ubuntu world they at UTC-12's morning and end at UTC+12's evening
[09:51] <thekorn> aehm
[09:51] <thekorn> or the other way around
[10:07] <abhi_nav> ..
[10:09] <baptistemm> abhi_nav, I guess if you say some polite words like hello, usually it's what  when I enter somewhere
[10:09] <baptistemm> it would work  better
[10:10] <baptistemm> and perhaps preprending "could you accept ..." before 'request to approve my membership'.
[10:10] <baptistemm> sorry if I sound rude
[10:11] <baptistemm> note that I don't have any power to help you
[10:11] <vish> abhi_nav: btw, which membership ?
[10:12] <abhi_nav> vish, bugsquad membershipo
[10:15] <vish> abhi_nav: ah , you have applied to the team? if so, you can wait for bdmurray , pedro_ or hggdh to approve , when they are around
[10:16] <abhi_nav> vish, ok
[10:16] <vish> abhi_nav: in the mean time , you can start triaging bugs..
[10:16] <abhi_nav> vish, yah. I will look at it. thanks
[10:19] <vish> np.
[13:38] <chilicuil> hi, I wonder if I should assing the bug #592927 to the 'kernel-package' package
[13:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 592927 in ubuntu "make-kpkg does not create an initrd image (affects: 1) (heat: 151)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592927
[13:52] <BUGabundo_remote> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/603080
[13:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 603080 in dbus (Ubuntu) "[Error 09:28:19.713] [PidginAccountItemSource] Could not get Pidgin accounts: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[13:52] <BUGabundo_remote> anyone good with DBUS or gconf around?
[15:42] <abhi_nav> Hurray! I am approved!!! Glad to be bugsquad part.!!! :D
[15:52] <hggdh> pedro_: we have a DD applying for BugSquad -- should we deal with it, or should we pass him over to jcastro?
[15:52] <hggdh> (so that he gets bug-control)
[15:53] <pedro_> hggdh, the second option sounds better to me so he can also make him a member of the bugcontrol team ;-)
[15:53] <pedro_> jcastro, ^
[15:53] <hggdh> abhi_nav: welcome in :-)
[15:53] <abhi_nav> hggdh, :D
[15:53] <jcastro> sure, on it
[15:53] <pedro_> abhi_nav, welcome!
[15:53] <abhi_nav> pedro_, yah :)
[15:53] <pedro_> abhi_nav, did you heard about the bug day ? ;-)
[15:53] <jcastro> hggdh: who is it? lp name?
[15:53] <abhi_nav> pedro_, yes. on 17 utc right?
[15:53] <hggdh> jcastro: checking
[15:53] <pedro_> abhi_nav, actually it's all the day of 08 July :-)
[15:54] <abhi_nav> pedro_, today?
[15:54] <pedro_> abhi_nav, have a look to http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/97
[15:54] <abhi_nav> pedro_, then I lost it?
[15:54] <pedro_> abhi_nav, yes yes
[15:54] <abhi_nav> pedro_, ok :(
[15:54] <pedro_> abhi_nav, no you didn't  :-P
[15:54] <hggdh> jcastro: debian-jwiltshire
[15:55] <abhi_nav> pedro_, :D
[15:55] <pedro_> abhi_nav, have a look to the page i've pointed you and if you have any questions feel free to ask here in the channel, there's plenty of people willing to help ;-)
[15:55] <abhi_nav> pedro_, ok. thanks
[15:55] <pedro_> chilicuil, 'kernel-package' sounds fine btw (re the bug you asked for a while ago)
[15:56] <pedro_> so it can be triaged further there
[15:57] <jcastro> hggdh: did he send a mail or something (I don't see one on the mailing list) or just apply for the group?
[15:58] <hggdh> jcastro: he sent an email to the bugsquad ML, where he says, en passant, he maintains some packages Debian. So I went to d.o, and he is a DD
[15:59] <abhi_nav> who is Pedro Villavicencio Garrido?
[15:59] <abhi_nav> I mean is he here?
[15:59] <hggdh> abhi_nav: pedro_
[15:59] <pedro_> abhi_nav, that's me
[16:00] <abhi_nav> pedro_, ohhh you only. ok I was want to say thank you for approving.
[16:00] <abhi_nav> hggdh, ok
[16:00] <pedro_> abhi_nav, you're welcome ;-)
[16:00] <abhi_nav> pedro_, yah
[16:01] <jcastro> hggdh: aha, I was looking in bugcontrol, ON IT
[16:01] <hggdh> jcastro: thank you very much, sir
[16:02] <joumetal> is this right package? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome2/+bug/601957
[16:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 601957 in meta-gnome2 (Ubuntu) "SVG desktop wallpaper is blurry (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New]
[16:04] <pedro_> joumetal, not really, that's just a meta package it doesn't contain any code to manage anything
[16:05] <pedro_> joumetal, if you can reproduce it , assign it to nautilus for now please
[16:08] <mmestnik> Hello, I had a question or two about the bug tracker and recommended operation.  This also indicates that I have a problem I'd like to have fixed/worked on, sorry if I find it hard to discuss one without talking about the other.
[16:08] <mmestnik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluefish/+bug/158891
[16:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 158891 in bluefish (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Bluefish won't open Firefox as external viewer. (heat: 6)" [Low,In progress]
[16:08] <mmestnik> This issue(how to invoke a browser from another application) effects a lot of applications.
[16:09] <mmestnik> It should therefore have some documentation attached to it, like a maintainers guide.
[16:09] <mmestnik> The first question is, where is this maintainers guide and does it spell out the correct syntax?
[16:09] <mmestnik>  The second question is, my application got it wrong, is there a way I can close this bug or attach my app to it?
[16:09] <mmestnik> s/close/clone/
[16:13] <chilicuil> ok, great, thx pedro_ :)
[16:13] <pedro_> chilicuil, thank you for helping out :-)
[16:14] <jcastro> hggdh: done. feel free to always send DD requests my way!
[16:15] <hggdh> jcastro: thank you, and will do :-)
[16:16] <mmestnik> Should I just attach my application to this bug?  If so how?
[16:17] <mmestnik> This issue defiantly needs a small team to manage and maintain.  For instance there should be a recommended set of tools for doing this, like a library and a command line application that links with it.
[16:17] <abhi_nav> pedro_, i confused meeting with hug day. i read about meeting on 13th july. :)
[16:19] <mmestnik> The idea would be that major projects like Thunderbird and gedit would link with this library that would have a ~large~ array of back-ends for different browsers.
[16:21] <abhi_nav> what is ML?
[16:22] <om26er> abhi_nav, mailing list
[16:22] <abhi_nav> om26er, ok
[16:30] <elopio> Hi there.
[16:31] <elopio> I marked one of the ubuntu bug day bugs as incomplete. But I don't yet know what package it belongs too. Should I mark it as green on the wiki even though it hasn't been assigned to a package?
[16:35] <elopio> pedro_: ping :)
[16:36] <pedro_> elopio, hi there
[16:36] <elopio> pedro_: good morning
[16:36] <micahg> drew212: BTW, no flashplugin-installer on hardy :)
[16:36] <pedro_> elopio, if you're subscribed to it and are going to continue to triage that bug, sure, mark it as green ;-)
[16:36] <pedro_> elopio, btw are you using the hugday tool?
[16:36] <elopio> pedro_: great. Thanks.
[16:36] <pedro_> elopio, or just editing the wiki by hand
[16:36] <elopio> pedro_: yes, I've just installed it.
[16:37] <elopio> I'm about to try if I set everything correctly marking this issue as done.
[16:37] <pedro_> elopio, awesome ;-)
[16:37] <elopio> pedro_: by the way, you didn't mentioned to me the greasemonkey scripts for triaging.
[16:38] <elopio> they are really cool :)
[16:38] <pedro_> elopio, the firefox-lp-improvements? that's great yes ;-)
[16:39] <elopio> it worked.
[16:39] <elopio> I closed my first bug day bug. Yeah! \o/
[16:40] <pedro_> congrats elopio!
[16:40]  * pedro_ hugs elopio
[16:41] <elopio> thanks. I'm doing this just for the hugs :D
[16:43] <pedro_> i know i know :-P
[16:44] <elopio> what about this one? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/602145
[16:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 602145 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] glom-sqlite: glom sqlite support (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,New]
[16:44] <elopio> it was changed to a packaging request
[16:45] <elopio> so no package should be assigned to it. Should I just mark it as green so no one else try to work on it?
[16:49] <pedro_> elopio, that sounds reasonable , yes please
[16:54] <elopio> another question... Sorry :)
[16:55] <elopio> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zope.index/+bug/598776 is assigned to both zope.index and ubuntu
[16:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 598776 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "TypeError if given None as a text to index (affects: 1) (heat: 519)" [Undecided,New]
[16:55] <elopio> should I just mark the assignment to ubuntu as invalid?
[17:07] <micahg> abhi_nav: why did you change the status in bug 410407 for firefox?
[17:07] <hggdh> elopio: actually, ths bug has it all wrong...
[17:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 410407 in nspluginwrapper (Fedora) (and 11 other projects) "Adobe Flash Player does not respond to mouse clicks [READ DESCRIPTION] (affects: 894) (dups: 51) (heat: 3945)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410407
[17:09] <elopio> hggdh: yes? please let me know what is wrong and what should be done.
[17:09] <hggdh> elopio: (1) the Ubuntu task should be changed to the local Ubuntu package; (2) we need to find both the Ubuntu version and the Ubuntu package version;
[17:10] <atrus> micahg: i can only assume it's because people want the GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS fix/workaround pushed into firefox? i can't see anywhere else that fix could reasonably be applied.
[17:10] <hggdh> elopio: (3) is this zope, indeed? I do not know, I never worked with zope...
[17:11] <abhi_nav> micahg, it is conformed for firefox too. correct me if i dont know. i will change
[17:11] <abhi_nav> micahg, i am new
[17:11] <micahg> abhi_nav: no, the issue is in the flash plugin, but can be fixed w/a workaround in nspluginwrapper
[17:11] <micahg> atrus: that's not the proper place to fix it
[17:11] <atrus> micahg: except only 64-bit users use nspluginwrapper
[17:12] <micahg> atrus: yes, true, so Adobe needs to fix this
[17:12] <atrus> unless you're suggesting that nspluginwrapper should be used everywhere, which could be argued
[17:12] <atrus> micahg: given their release history, they're not likely to get around to it any time soon i think.
[17:12] <micahg> atrus: I just saw something w/a request to that point, but I don't think that'll happen
[17:12] <micahg> atrus: WebM ftw :)
[17:12] <atrus> if there's an easy workaround to apply at the browser level, go for it, i say.
[17:13] <micahg> atrus: IIRC, firefox is already patched for it
[17:13] <atrus> micahg: for video, sure, even theora. but there's a lot more to flash than video.
[17:13] <abhi_nav> micahg, lots of things listed there who have affect. so in my case i have this problem only in firefox. and i dont have in any other aps
[17:13] <atrus> micahg: upstream, but not in ubuntu?
[17:13] <abhi_nav> micahg, so what should i do now? change it?
[17:13] <micahg> atrus: both I think, I'd have to check
[17:14] <atrus> micahg: that seems like an good argument for leaving it new/confirmed in firefox(ubuntu), so we get that fix in an updated firefox, or backported.
[17:14] <atrus> better than invalid anyways.
[17:14] <micahg> brb
[17:14] <elopio> hggdh: I think the problem is on zope.index. repoze.catalog uses it for indexing and the error log refers to /home/ccomb/buildout-eggs/zope.index-3.6.0
[17:15] <hggdh> elopio: cool. Please change the Ubuntu task to zope.index
[17:15] <atrus> micahg: if you can find an upstream bug for it, that might be nice to be able to point people in the right direction
[17:15] <elopio> hggdh: but it should be something like zope.incex (ubuntu), right?
[17:16] <hggdh> elopio: correct (or the equivalent Ubuntu source package)
[17:17] <elopio> great. And I'll ask for the ubuntu version and package version. Thanks hggdh
[17:17]  * elopio hugs hggdh :)
[17:18] <abhi_nav> I was dicsonnected.
[17:20] <micahg> atrus: I'll have to look later
[17:21] <micahg> abhi_nav: that was the upstream task anyways, which should only be set by a bugwatch
[17:21] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok. so what do i do now? Please guide me.
[17:21] <micahg> abhi_nav: I reset it to invalid
[17:22] <abhi_nav> micahg, ok.
[17:26]  * hggdh hugs elopio
[18:18] <elopio> what does the kj-triage tag mean?
[18:39] <jpds> elopio: Maybe ask JFo?
[18:44] <Pa_trick17> Hi, in this comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/582625/comments/7 Vikram Dhillon wrote "...until we fix the issue...".
[18:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582625 in yelp (Ubuntu) "Ureadable character in ubuntu docs (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[18:45] <Pa_trick17> Question: shall i set the bug-status to "triaged" and "Vikram Dhillon" as "assignee?
[18:47] <Kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/601377 should it then be applied that this affects Xorg?
[18:47] <ubot2> Kangarooo: Error: Bug #601377 is private.
[18:55] <Pa_trick17> ... or even bug-status "in progress" (-> the wiki says that normally "in progress" is only set by the person who is working on the bug)
[19:03] <Kangarooo> Pa_trick17: no that isnt even triaged.
[19:03] <Kangarooo> but in it theres comment that it made xorg crash..
[19:29] <JFo> elopio, sorry for the late response, kj-triage is for when I have processed a bug via my script. It helps weed out the ones that may not have been looked at yet.
[20:11] <abhi_nav> what is fire stack?
[20:12] <abhi_nav> ohs sorry its firewirestack
[20:14] <vish> Pa_trick17: "we" as in the community.. it doesnt seem like 'he' is working on it
[20:49] <Pa_trick17> vish: so not "we" as in (dev-)team that is responsible for yalm?
[20:50] <vish> Pa_trick17: yup
[20:51] <Pa_trick17> ok - misunderstood - thx for clearing
[20:51] <Pa_trick17> vish: see above :-)
[20:51] <vish> np.
[20:51] <hggdh> Pa_trick17: 'we' meant, when I wrote it, Community/Ubuntu/Upstream
[20:53] <vish> Pa_trick17: also , since you are still in bug squad , you cant set bugs to triaged yet.. when you find bugs that can be set as triaged you can request here
[20:54] <Pa_trick17> vish: that would have been my next question ;-) - thx for helping out a learning newbie :-)
[20:54] <hggdh> er. Pa_trick17 sorry, it was Vikram that wrote it, but I am pretty sure I have seem this before in yelp
[20:54] <vish> np.
[20:54] <hggdh> and wrote something equivalent
[20:55] <Pa_trick17> hggdh: no problem - yes it was vikram dhillon
[21:38] <Darxus> I submitted a bug where you try to log in, and it fails with no error.  And it was categorized as low priority.  And I think that's wrong.  #602812.
[21:38] <micahg> bug
[21:38] <micahg> bug 602812
[21:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 602812 in gdm (Ubuntu) "Can't log in, no error message, when disk is full (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602812
[21:39] <micahg> Darxus: I suggest checking upstream for a bug at bugzilla.gnome.org
[21:42] <Darxus> micahg: Definitely.  But shouldn't it have a higher priority?
[21:43] <micahg> Darxus: I'm not sure, I'm sure pedro_ has a good reason for setting it to low
[21:45] <pedro_> Darxus, a similar bug is 'normal' on the upstream BTS
[21:45] <pedro_> changing the importance wouldn't make any difference on the ubuntu report
[21:46] <pedro_> anyways, that needs to be send upstream as said previously
[21:46] <Darxus> I think if a user is stuck at the login screen with no cluses what's wrong, that's very bad.
[21:46] <Darxus> Clues.
[21:47] <pedro_> Darxus, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350535#c2
[21:47] <ubot2> Gnome bug 350535 in general "Login crashes when 100 percent disk usage" [Normal,Assigned]
[21:47] <pedro_> see the response from the maintainer
[21:48] <pedro_> Darxus, and the bug i've pointed you is the one that's watching that upstream report, if you look at the first description it's the same
[21:50] <pedro_> there's also an idea on how to solve the issue on the comment #4
[21:51] <Darxus> "This is not a critical bug.... it doesn't seem to be a
[21:51] <Darxus> high enough concern for anybody to provide a patch even though this issue has
[21:51] <Darxus> been documented for years."
[21:51] <Darxus> You think it's okay for people to get no explanation of why their login failed?
[21:51] <pedro_> Darxus, feel free to comment there ;-)
[21:51] <pedro_> Darxus, i'm not the maintainer , sorry
[21:52] <Darxus> pedro_: Right, but what I'm asking you is if you, personally, think it's reasonable for this ubuntu bug to not be marked high?
[21:52] <Darxus> And for this to be something for ubuntu to take more interest in than waiting for an upstream resolution.
[21:52] <pedro_> Darxus, i can mark it as high, but that is not going to make any difference
[21:53] <Darxus> ...Do you want people to use ubuntu?
[21:54] <maxwellian> Darxus: The point being made on the upstream bug report is that people have known about this for a long time but nobody has thought it was a big enough deal to patch it.
[21:54] <maxwellian> Darxus: I agree with you that it's a problem that should be fixed, but the developers seem to think it's not very many people.
[21:55] <maxwellian> pedro_: If you think the upstream bug is the same, it should be linked on our bug page.
[21:55] <pedro_> maxwellian, it's linked now
[21:55] <maxwellian> Darxus: Or, not affecting many people.
[21:55] <micahg> Darxus: you can try kdm if you want
[21:56] <pedro_> hi abhi_nav!
[21:56] <abhi_nav> hi pedro_
[21:57] <pedro_> is xdm or kdm behaving the same way?
[21:57] <abhi_nav> pedro_, you are asking to me?
[21:57] <maxwellian> pedro_: Sorry, I'm not seeing the link to the gnome bug on our page...probably blind. :P
[21:58] <pedro_> maxwellian, i've marked it as dup of another bug we have watching that upstream report, that's probably why
[21:58] <pedro_> abhi_nav, it was an open question rather ;-)
[21:58] <abhi_nav> pedro_, ok
[22:04] <Darxus> It's probably not very many people because most who have come across it immediately stopped using linux.
[22:06] <Darxus> I think it's reasonable to set priorities proportional to the liklihood of a bug causing a preson to stop using linux.  And I think this one is pretty freaking likely.
[22:07] <maxwellian> Darxus: I'm with you on that.  The developer commented that "lots of things go wrong if your /tmp directory fills up", but most users shouldn't be expected to just know that.
[22:07] <Darxus> My understanding is that the ability to submit bugs against ubuntu packages when the problem actually exists upstream is for cases where ubuntu might care more than the upstream developers.  And I think this is a case where ubuntu should care a lot.
[22:08] <maxwellian> Darxus: I haven't read the bugs marked as duplicates, are they prioritized differently?
[22:08] <micahg> Darxus: patches welcome
[22:11] <Darxus> maxwellian: The ubuntu bugs are all "low".
[22:11] <Darxus> The gnome bugs are normal/minor, Normal/normal.
[22:11] <maxwellian> micahg: I imagine Darxus is on the verge of abandoning Ubuntu on the basis of poor user experience in this area.  I don't think we generally correct poor user experience by telling the user to become a developer.  It's nice when that happens, but we certainly shouldn't expect it.
[22:15] <trinikrono> hey guys
[22:18] <micahg> maxwellian: right, but even between the paid devs and the volunteers, there are limited resources
[22:20] <maxwellian> micahg: No question there, and I have a huge amount of gratitude for all of the work that goes into Ubuntu, paid or otherwise.
[22:20] <micahg> maxwellian: and I don't know Darxus 's technical ability
[22:21] <maxwellian> micahg: But the whole point of "triage" is to prioritize bugs, and bugs that will scare people away from using Ubuntu at all seem more important than other kinds.
[22:22] <micahg> maxwellian: yep, this is true, but it does seem like more of a corner case especially with the large drives that come w/machines today
[22:26] <maxwellian> micahg: I agree that most users probably never experience this.  Okay, thanks for your take on it.
[22:27] <micahg> maxwellian: I deferred to pedro since he is one of the main triagers for GNOME in Ubuntu
[22:31] <maxwellian> Right, makes sense.  Okay well I'll look into it more, see if there's some way I can help.  Not likely, but we'll see. :P
[22:33] <Darxus> I've actually been a programmer for a bunch of years.  But if ubuntu won't even consider this a signficant bug... well, it's infuriating.
[22:33] <Darxus> Imagine if your mom tried to use her mac or windows computer, couldn't log in, and got no error.  That'd be fucked up.
[22:34] <micahg> Darxus: please understand, there is a lot of work to do for each Ubuntu release
[22:34] <maxwellian> Darxus: I seem to remember weird things happening in Windows when your hard drive filled up?
[22:34] <Darxus> micahg: I realize that.  And like maxwellian said, I really appreciate all the work.
[22:35] <yofel> micahg: I'm not sure how you folks handle firefox bugs. Is it ok to expire bug 498765 as it got no response?
[22:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 498765 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "Content overlap (affects: 1) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498765
[22:36] <micahg> yofel: yes, no test case or URL means we can't do anything with it
[22:37] <yofel> ok, thx
[22:46] <maxwellian> Darxus: I agree that doing something about this issue is a good thing for Ubuntu.  How would you feel about looking deeper into the problem, at the code level?  I'd be interested myself, but I don't think I have the technical chops at this point.  I'd be more than happy to help you in some way.
[22:47] <Darxus> I might.
[22:48] <micahg> yofel: you have a script to expire bugs?
[22:49] <yofel> im writing and testing one just now :P
[22:49] <micahg> yofel: k, would be great if we can get it in one of the tools packages :)
[22:51] <maxwellian> Darxus: You might be interested, or you might have the chops?  Or both? :)
[22:52] <yofel> it's still far away from being ready for that, but considering I had pretty much 0 knowledge of launchpadlib 2h ago I'm pretty happy it works :P
[22:52] <yofel> still quite error-prone though :/
[22:53] <Darxus> maxwellian: I might be interested.  Anything is possible.
[22:54] <Darxus> Right now the subject is mostly making me angry, which doesn't help.
[22:56] <maxwellian> Darxus: Yeah, I hear ya.  Well you can channel that anger into a relentless quest to rid gdm of that behavior once and for all! :)
[22:57] <maxwellian> Darxus: First step is to figure out what happens programatically, and why it has to be that way.  The Gnome developers (at least some) are obviously aware of the issue, so if it were a simple fix I'm sure it'd be done by now.
[22:57] <maxwellian> Darxus: There are probably complications we're not aware of yet.  But that doesn't have to be a deal breaker.
[22:57] <Darxus> I'm sure you could just create a 1mb empty file in /tmp, and if gdm fails to login due to lack of disk space, delete the file and try again.
[23:00] <maxwellian> Darxus: There's some mention in the comments of various "duplicates" that the user's home directory is involved in some way.
[23:02] <maxwellian> Darxus: But probably the same principle applies.  Not sure how to prevent the user from removing the placeholder...
[23:02] <maxwellian> Darxus: Just make it hidden, obviously, and re-create it on login if it's not found (assuming there's enough space)?
[23:06] <Darxus> Make it a text file that explains the problem.  And yeah, recreate it on bootup or something.
[23:11] <maxwellian> Darxus: Do you have experience building big projects?  I imagine even if we got some kind of patch going, building gdm or gnome-session or whatever is probably not trivial.
[23:12] <phillw> hi, just a quick query regarding an earlier email about statuses. Is it possible / desirable to mark a bug as 'closed' as 'won't fix' does sound a bit harsh :-0
[23:13] <phillw> :-)
[23:13] <Darxus> maxwellian: Nah, building ubuntu packages from source is easy.  I did some work on the kernel package.  That thing is nuts.
[23:14] <Darxus> phillw: "Harsh" is better when it's true.
[23:14] <maxwellian> Darxus: I can only imagine. :P
[23:14] <Darxus> maxwellian: Well, just about all of the kernal image variants are built from a single source package, on top of maintaining an extensive delta from upstream.
[23:15] <phillw> well, in the case of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator/+bug/588607  it was explained, and accepted. So "won't fix" does seem harsh :-\
[23:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 588607 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Uninstalling Galculator will uninstall Lubuntu-desktop (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 111)" [Undecided,Won't fix]
[23:16] <phillw> that seemed more like a FAQ, than a bug - is there not a method to respond to such things?
[23:17] <maxwellian> phillw: I think they were better off with the "invalid" tag.
[23:17] <maxwellian> phillw: Since it's not a bug.  ("It's a feature." :) )
[23:17] <maxwellian> phillw: Won't fix implies something is broken in the first place.
[23:18] <maxwellian> Darxus: I don't even know what that means. :P  Anyway, I'm looking around on the web for info on how gdm starts up.
[23:19] <phillw> kk, just so as I know, I have updated the wiki page for lubuntu to cover this one, as it does crop up quite often
[23:19] <phillw> dunno if I should change it now, after all this time ?
[23:20] <Darxus> maxwellian: It's probably started by upstart, which I haven't figured out yet.  It used to be started by init.
[23:20] <maxwellian> phillw: Don't bother with that, no one's looking at that bug anymore.
[23:20] <Darxus> Well, I suppose upstart still is init.
[23:21] <maxwellian> phillw: But bug #588611, which is a duplicate of the bug you mentioned, was marked invalid.
[23:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 588611 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Uninstalling Bluetooth will uninstall lubuntu-desktop (dup-of: 588607)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588611
[23:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 588607 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Uninstalling Galculator will uninstall Lubuntu-desktop (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 111)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588607
[23:21] <Darxus> maxwellian: Why are you trying to figure out how gdm starts?
[23:21] <maxwellian> Darxus: I don't know the first thing about gdm or how it works, so if I'm going to have any chance at being helpful I need some kind of context. :)
[23:22] <Darxus> maxwellian: Yeah, gdm's parent process ID is 1, which is init.
[23:23] <phillw> maxwellian: I was just about to ask about that one (still learning)
[23:23] <Darxus> maxwellian: Eh, it starts by magic.  You can restart it by running "killall gdm" and if it doesn't restart itself run "/usr/sbin/gdm".
[23:24] <Darxus> maxwellian: It *used* to be that init read stuff rom /etc/rc#.d/ directories, where "#" was the runlevel, and the normal runlevel was something like 3, and there would be a script in that directory named probably "gdm" and that script would basically just run gdm.
[23:24] <Darxus> But in the name of faster boot times, they made it complicated as hell and called the process upstart.
[23:25] <maxwellian> phillw: Me too. :)  But I think invalid is better for those bugs, since they are not bugs.  You can look into the "Convert to a question" option, it might be useful to have this kind of thing as an answered question.  But I don't know anything about that.
[23:25] <Darxus> init is the program which ran the scripts from the /etc/rc* directories.  It's just the one program the kernel runs once it finishes loading.
[23:25] <maxwellian> Darxus: Right, I've heard of init, and I know a bit about the rc directories and runtime levels.
[23:26] <Darxus> maxwellian: Yeah they're gone now :(
[23:26] <maxwellian> Darxus: "Now" meaning...10.04?
[23:26] <maxwellian> I'm still on 9.10
[23:27] <Darxus> Not sure when it changed.
[23:28] <yofel> Darxus: the init script is now in /etc/init and it's called gdm.conf
[23:28] <yofel> Darxus: and the app that ran /etc/rc.Xd was init from sys-v-init, we use upstart now
[23:29] <Darxus> yofel: Oh, that doesn't look too bad :P
[23:29] <maxwellian> Darxus: Glad you like it, that's encouraging. :)
[23:30] <yofel> upstart init scripts have a configuration part and the actual script that's being run, proper way to handle them is usually 'sudo service xy restart/start/stop/...'
[23:30] <Darxus> I guess the wpa_supplicant has more involved interaction with dbus, which looked messy.
[23:31] <maxwellian> yofel: Thanks, I'll have to look into this upstart business.
[23:44] <maxwellian> Darxus: The problem may actually be in gnome-session, not gdm...only from what I've read.
[23:51]  * kermiac waves at miss piggy
[23:51] <kermiac> howdy zack
[23:53] <kermiac> oops, wrong chan
[23:53]  * maxwellian smirks