=== yofel_ is now known as yofel === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away [03:59] MootBot: hi [03:59] Does anyone here know if I could possibly get mootbot in my channel? [03:59] !MootBot [03:59] mootbot is a bot to make the process of summarizing !meetings easier - Information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot [08:17] soren: Thanks for the hint. Am repoening the bug now and leaving the TZ hint :) === lionel_ is now known as lionel [13:14] godbyk-android: in fact we really should do that [13:15] godbyk-android: meeting opened. nobody besides us to is here, so: meeting closed :) [13:15] Sure. Guess I souls get in front if my computer then. :-) [13:15] ha! [13:15] So easy. [13:16] really worth getting up early, isn't it? [13:16] It's pretty sad if I'm the only one showing up. [13:16] Yeah, I need to adjust my availability for this meeting. Move it to a more sensible time or something. [13:16] godbyk-android: mpt is on holiday last and this week [13:17] Aha [13:17] 7 am sucks. :-) [13:18] that on top of this running on the side with everyone having enough on their hands, anyway ... [13:18] (especially since I usually have to be at another meeting an hour or two later) [13:19] godbyk-android: mpt mentioned a book project you talked about? [13:20] Yeah, I think we should have a usability principles/design book for open source developers [13:21] i agree in so far as there should be a central resource === r40 is now known as twinsenx [13:22] Something that's a bit more general than the HIGs. [13:23] godbyk-android: sure. including sections on common misconceptions regarding the value of options, expert-modes and such [13:24] Basically something that would help OSS developers develop more usable software at the start and also explain how to go about testing their software (for usability). [13:24] right [13:25] giving concrete examples to illustrate bad designers and how to make them better (and *why* the better designs are better). [13:25] as it stands now, I think the usability thing is kind of a mystery to most developers. [13:25] and they're not too inclined to buy expensive books to read. [13:26] so we toss together a free book (ala the Ubuntu manual), web site, etc., etc. [13:26] something that can be linked to during discussions (in email lists, irc chats, etc.) [13:29] godbyk: i have been thinking all the same and even vaguely mentioned it when sabdfl offered me to apply for a job. well, that did not happen [13:29] bummer === twinsenx is now known as sen^away [15:00] #startmeeting [15:00] Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is dholbach. [15:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:00] WELCOME EVERYBODY! [15:00] Who's all here for the LoCo Directory meeting? [15:00] o/ [15:00] +1 [15:01] Who else? Come on, don't be shy :-) [15:01] i'm here [15:01] +1 [15:01] still playing Lego though [15:02] o/ [15:02] \o [15:02] awesome - if anybody of you comes in late, please let us know you're there :) [15:02] I talked to mhall119 about this meeting and we thought it'd make sense to introduce the project first, talk about how things are done right now and answer all the questions, then proceed to review the open bugs and see if we need to reprioritise [15:03] [TOPIC] Introduction [15:03] New Topic: Introduction [15:03] So we're talking about http://loco.ubuntu.com/ which first aimed to replace the giant list of loco teams [15:03] o/ [15:03] (does anybody have a link for that?) [15:03] so basically just a big list of teams, who's admin of those teams, where their websites are, if they're approved etc. [15:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList [15:04] thanks cjohnston - you can see that list here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ [15:04] we get most of the information from Launchpad through launchpadlib [15:04] the next step was that we added information about events that teams are holding [15:05] so if you head to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ you get an idea of what's currently going on [15:05] we distinguish between global events (like release parties or the ubuntu global jam) [15:05] and local events, like real-life meetings those teams are holding [15:05] folks can confirm their attendance for those events and add comments, etc. [15:06] we partly integrated maps and country/continent information, but that's still in flux [15:06] please: if you have any questions or things are not clear, please do ask [15:06] any questions right now? :) [15:06] dholbach, Does it rock? [15:06] Is there any other format available for the list of events (iCal, RSS, etc/) ? [15:06] Daviey: it doesn't rock - it ROCKs [15:07] dholbach, Ah good! :) === sen^away is now known as twinsenx [15:07] mongolito404: yes, there's ICal information about events [15:07] And is there a list of events per LoCo team ? [15:07] there's also RSS feeds for events [15:07] there you go :) [15:07] dholbach: it will be possible in the future to make a "one time meeting place"? since now we have meetings in different places, and making a new place for the list everytime is annoying [15:07] mongolito404: yes... if you click on the loco team from the teams page [15:07] mongolito404: yes, if you go to the teams's page, there's a link [15:07] Ddorda: you mean that you can re-use existing venues? [15:08] also, there is a REST/JSON interface to all of the information in the loco-directory, so you can write mashups or feed data into another website/app: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/API [15:08] dholbach: i mean, if it is possible to make a "one time venue" [15:08] * dholbach hugs mhall119 [15:08] Ddorda: so that the venue does not appear ever again? [15:08] indeed [15:08] I don't see an iCal feed for a team events page. I'm missing something ? [15:08] Ddorda: no, that functionality is not there yet - can you file a bug about it, so we can see how best to implement it and what others think? [15:08] mongolito404: the ical is global only right now, but there are per-team RSS feeds of events [15:09] dholbach: will do. [15:09] thanks Ddorda [15:09] another question: my friend has the directory interface in Hebrew for some reason, any way to change it back to English? [15:09] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-pk/rss/ тЖР for example [15:09] LINK received: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/ubuntu-pk/rss/ Р for example [15:09] Ddorda: can you subscribe ~robertwall to it when you do? I'd been meaning to ask for one-time venues. [15:10] rww: sure thing :) [15:10] Ddorda: there's a bug about it, you need to change browser's language atm [15:10] dholbach: okay, thanks :) [15:11] bug 570638 [15:11] Launchpad bug 570638 in loco-directory "translations not selectable on the website" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570638 [15:11] any more immediate questions? [15:11] oh! another thing: is it possible to choose other organizer to the meeting, instead of having the LoCo as an organizer? [15:11] Ddorda: no, not yet, we don't have an event organiser role [15:11] it might make sense to have a contact for an event [15:11] since there are some meetings that our LoCo takes part in, but not the organizer [15:11] I think there is a bug for that [15:12] dholbach: no need for a role [15:12] Ddorda: you can still leave the LoCo as the organizer in the LD [15:12] hwo about some kind of category, like the venues.. [15:12] it's really to specify which loco is involved, not the loco's role in the event [15:12] I think it'd be good to select a member or two as contacts for an event if there's any queries [15:13] oh, maybe I misunderstood [15:13] i think he means if the organizers are another group for open source [15:13] Ddorda: can you clarify? [15:13] he= Ddorda [15:13] dholbach: ..? [15:14] you mean about august pinguin, right? [15:14] moshe742: indeed [15:14] we don't organize August penguin event, but we do take part in it [15:14] but in the LoCo directory it says that we organize it [15:14] maybe we can have a separate discussion on the loco-contacts or ubuntu-event-planners mailing lists? [15:14] The organizing team means which team has organized to participate in the event [15:14] not necessarily who is running the event [15:15] mhall119: i see, so it's about 'the right word' :) [15:15] right [15:15] ok, let's make that a separate discussion :) [15:15] or file a bug and we fix the description :) [15:15] will do [15:15] whatever seems right :) [15:15] thanks [15:15] viewer may be confused as "Organizing" will usually implies that the team is organizing the event, not its own participation at the event. [15:16] 2 bug reports from one coversation, nice :) [15:16] mongolito404: ok, I see what you mean [15:16] alright, if there's no other immediate questions (please just keep them coming), we can talk about how the LD is developed and how we work together [15:16] * Daviey suggests if there is doubt, it's at the very least a usability issue.. Therefore raise a bug and be as descriptive as possible [15:16] what is LD? [15:16] Ddorda: I suspect they won't be the last [15:16] moshe742: sorry, the LoCo Directory [15:17] thanks:) [15:17] LaunchDad :D [15:17] haha [15:17] [TOPIC] LoCo Directory Development [15:17] New Topic: LoCo Directory Development [15:17] we use LP and LD a lot, sometimes I've had to re-read [15:17] alright, so we have a bunch of people in here who helped develop the LoCo Directory and who put a lot of effort into making it rock [15:18] getting the source code is trivial, bzr branch lp:loco-directory will give you all you need [15:18] it even comes with an INSTALL file that tells you how to set it up and make it run locally [15:18] dholbach, Do we still suggest postgres for local?! [15:18] it's written in python and uses the Django framework [15:18] Daviey: no, it's optional [15:19] Daviey: I think we default local_settings.py to sqlite [15:19] mhall119 will give a session at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek next week about Django and how to work with it, if you're interested [15:20] the class will be generic Django, not LD specific, but I will hit on most of what is used in LD [15:20] the basics are: you define what kind of data you work with in models, define an url structure, set up views on that data (what do I want on a specific page), then put stuff into templates which contain bits of HTML and some very simple "programming language" to shoehorn the data into the page [15:21] particularly because the data used in the LD is very clear and immediate (you have teams, team.contact, venues and venue.city, etc.) it's such a fun and interesting project to work on [15:21] we use launchpadlib to get data from Launchpad, but that's basically all the code bases we use [15:22] on the web front we use just html and jquery for some nice animations and to make the interface nicer [15:22] are there questions about the "platform"? [15:23] if you have questions later on, just ask :) [15:23] so how do we work together? [15:23] well, i am new here so where can i get the basics on all of this? [15:23] moshe742: do you have any specific questions? [15:23] moshe742: will you be able to attend my classes on the 16th? [15:23] may i ask the annoying question "why not drupal" ? [15:23] when will it be? [15:24] Ddorda: we all liked django and python and it's what the project was started in [15:24] moshe742: 16:00UTC->18:00 [15:24] Ddorda: Django, being an app framework rather an a CMS, was more suited to what we were doing [15:24] will it be in the irc? [15:24] moshe742: yes in #ubuntu-classroom [15:24] moshe742: yes, in #ubuntu-classroom [15:24] dholbach: and i like Drupal! let's make an 0.9 revolution like Compiz [15:24] ok, i will be there [15:24] just check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - it has all the details [15:24] joking :P [15:25] if you have played around with python a bit and checked out the source code I guess a lot of it will make sense if you look at it a bit [15:25] if not, talk to us on #ubuntu-locoteams [15:26] I'm sure that Daviey, mhall119, toabctl, cjohnston, myself or others will be happy to help you get started [15:26] o/ [15:26] so the way we work is something like this: [15:26] - we get a bug report or file a bug ourselves [15:27] dholbach: i was joking... don't take me seriously :P [15:27] - somebody decides to work on it, so they branch lp:loco-directory and work on a separate branch for that fix [15:27] - we use merge proposals and peer-review everything [15:27] - that gets merged, the bug gets milestoned with whatever is the current milestone [15:27] - once we have a bunch of interesting bugs fixed, we merge new translations from launchpad in [15:28] - we release it and ask the Canonical IS team to get the new code on loco.ubuntu.com [15:28] - DONE :) [15:28] if you need help with bzr or merge proposals we can help with that too [15:28] it's very easy once you get into it [15:28] ground control is a great tool for starting too [15:28] the idea is that we try to work on separate things, get them reviewed by the team and merge them in and release when it feels right [15:29] Do you release on a set schedule, or just when there's a good collection of changes? [15:29] rww: the latter [15:29] rww: if there's something important we fixed or it feels like it's substantial we release [15:29] and don't be offended if your merge proposal gets marked as "Needs Fixing", most of them do, even the ones the main developers submit [15:29] ie: https://launchpad.net/loco-directory/0.2.x/0.2.4 [15:29] https://launchpad.net/loco-directory/0.2.x/0.2.5 [15:30] those were smaller releases which fixed just a couple of bugs [15:30] i reported both bugs, can i write them down here so people will see, or it will be too much spam? [15:30] Ddorda: we're going to review open bugs in a bit [15:30] Ddorda: we'll go through bugs later on, if that's OK [15:30] sure, sorry :) [15:30] awesome [15:31] since you got them in so quickly, we can go over them too [15:31] just a few words about bugs now [15:31] we use tags to indicate where those bugs are happening or what they affect [15:31] check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs [15:31] on the right hand side you can see a list of tags [15:31] so "events", "teams", "venues", "maps" should be obvious [15:32] "stats" is about statistics we'll probably introduce one day [15:32] "mainpage" is about making the landing page more useful, "ui" is well, about UI [15:32] but we also have some special tags like "bitesize" which are small bugs suitable for newcomers [15:32] or "needs-decision" where we identified a problem and don't know yet how to fix it, the LoCo Council helped us in the past with those [15:33] "schema-change" means that something in the data structure has changed [15:33] everything else is pretty straight-forward: [15:33] - Triaged once the bug is full-well understood [15:33] bitesize bugs are good for people who are learning python and django, they are usually one or two line fixes, we save them for newcomers to encourage people to get involved [15:33] - In Progress (plus assigned to someone) if someone is working on it [15:34] - "Fix Committed" once the fix has been merged into lp:loco-directory (but is not deployed on loco.ubuntu.com yet) [15:34] - Fix Released once it was released [15:34] also once a fix is in trunk (lp:loco-directory), we milestone it, so we have some kind of "changelog" for the release [15:34] note that the bottom of http://loco.ubuntu.com/ shows the current release [15:35] are there any more questions about the LD and how it's developed? [15:35] I know that it might be a bit much information all at once :) [15:36] we also use blueprints for planning major changes and features [15:36] Any automatic testing ? [15:36] * Daviey adds, even if you are unsure of your fix - push it to launchpad via bzr anyway and propose for merging. Then it'll be either accepted, or a discussion on how to imporve it - to then get it landed [15:36] it's really not as scary as it sounds! [15:36] mongolito404, Our automatic testing framework is currently community based :) [15:37] Daviey adds a good point - most of the development discussion happens in blueprints and even hackers who landed lots of fixes sometimes have to rework their fixes a couple of times to get it right [15:37] it's important that we as a team can say: ok, yes, we like it the way it is because we'll maintain the page [15:37] mongolito404: not as much as we'd like [15:37] Oh, and dholbach is the offical gatekeeper of code. :) [15:38] mongolito404: we had a couple of test cases, but no, not much, unfortunately [15:38] bzr branches on launchpad are cheap, so make and push whatever work you do so it's available to others [15:38] (but ideally keep the changes small and easy to read) [15:38] can the IRC Council please kick Daviey from the thannel (reason: I'm NOT the offical gatekeeper!) [15:38] s/thannel/channel [15:38] :) [15:38] yes you are [15:38] :- [15:38] :-P [15:38] s/official/de facto/ [15:39] no, I'm not - I'm really just a team member like everybody else :) [15:39] we have no hierarchy :) [15:39] he's our community-appointed benevolent dictator [15:39] It really helps if you commit often. So even changing a few lines to do X, commit it to bzr with a readable changelog [15:39] it's all bit chaotic, but in a good way :) [15:39] Daviey++ [15:39] cabdfn = community-appointed benevolent dictator... for now [15:39] hehe [15:39] committing a massive change in one commit isn't groovy. ;) [15:39] +1 [15:40] but as we said before: it's all easy, not too hard, whatever you want to contribute is appreciate and we'll mentor you if you too think this is an exciting and important project [15:40] Daviey: https://edge.launchpad.net/~loco-directory-dev dholbach looks like the owner to me.. hehe [15:40] we're also very laid back and informal, it's not hard to get a contribution merged into the loco-directory [15:41] any more questions? [15:41] did we bore everybody to sleep already? :) [15:41] Is it friday yet? [15:41] cjohnston: ~loco-directory-dev/loco-directory/0.2/ is trunk [15:41] THX, i've no question, dholbach [15:41] elky: you're nearer to it than most of us others :) [15:42] alright, let's proceed to bugs then :) [15:42] [TOPIC] Bug Review of the LD [15:42] New Topic: Bug Review of the LD [15:42] I'd like to put some attention to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-loco-directory-plans [15:42] it's what we discussed at UDS and is stuff we'd like to get done in the maverick cycle if possible [15:43] if you look at the work items area, there's a couple of bugs that were all marked as "High importance" [15:43] so they'll turn up at https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs at the top [15:43] most of them revolve around making teams and events more easily findable because the lists get very long very easily [15:44] also to indicate team contacts, etc. [15:44] so.. now i can show my bug reports? :D [15:44] do we still think they all make sense? [15:44] Ddorda: in a bit [15:44] dholbach: can we triage new bugs at the end? [15:44] sure [15:44] that'll cover Ddorda's [15:45] (also please note the [dholbach] in the Whiteboard section is just a preliminary measure to get them on the radar for the blueprint tracking) [15:45] :-) [15:45] so, let have a look at the "High" importance bugs first - do they still all make sense there? [15:45] in other words, he wants you to take his tasks.. lol [15:46] cjohnston: get to work! :) [15:46] they are all beyond me. [15:46] dholbach: I think some of them are more wishlist than high [15:46] mhall119: for example? [15:47] I usually consider high bugs to mean something isn't working [15:47] ah ok [15:47] maybe we should use critical for them? [15:47] like, showing descriptive team names [15:47] well IMo wishlist does indicate new feature [15:47] 601679 could be Critical for example [15:47] High is a current feature not working, or a non-critical regression [15:47] I think we decided to prioritise things as we would like their importance in this cycle [15:48] * Daviey missed that memo cjohnston [15:48] dholbach: I agree with that, don't want spammers farming emails from LD [15:48] Daviey: that seemed to be how it was from uds [15:48] dholbach: +1 the mails are not visible by everyone in a majority of applications [15:48] so let's use Critical for stuff that doesn't work in the future [15:48] * dholbach will readjust that bug [15:48] we don't use critical very often any way [15:48] hi ^^" [15:48] we rarely have critical problems ;) [15:48] well a crticial bug is normally already on our radar. [15:49] I used High for the stuff that we put in the blueprint - hope that's ok [15:49] dholbach: there's nothing wrong with it, as long as we're all on the same page as to what that means [15:49] I think they can have both meanings [15:49] a feature thats high and a problem thats high [15:49] maybe somebody wants to document that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory? we don't use that page as much as we could :) [15:50] just 2-3 sentences [15:50] ok, nobody volunteers, I'll do it [15:51] dholbach: I'm already on it ;) [15:51] oh wow [15:51] mhall119 is unstoppable [15:51] * dholbach hugs mhall119 [15:51] (hugs are an important ingredient in the LoCo Directory as you can see) [15:52] mhall119, Daviey: do you want to go through the bugs one by one or should we look at them in groups? [15:52] (not sure how much time you all have) [15:52] nobody's listed on the schedule after us [15:53] ok, let's zip through them quickly - can you, if you think the importance should change, or tags are missing or something else is not clear please speak up, also if you intend to work on it? [15:54] from top to bottom on https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs [15:54] bug 601679 [15:54] Launchpad bug 601679 in loco-directory "The locoteam mail shouldn't be in clear for everyone" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601679 [15:54] * dholbach added teams, data [15:54] any takers? [15:55] dholbach: sorry, i'm drupalian [15:55] ui [15:55] * YoBoY only know how to open bugs T_T [15:55] ok, added [15:55] dholbach: will we only display the email for logged in users, or are we going to implement a contact form for anyone to use? [15:56] mhall119: LP has a contact form already - we can just link to that [15:56] right now, LD doesn't send out emails, but we've discussed that in the past [15:56] which requires log in there [15:56] ah, even better [15:56] yeah [15:56] you choose, the mail is in clear for loged in users in LP, so... [15:56] should be a trivial change - I'll take it [15:56] next: bug 495046 [15:56] Launchpad bug 495046 in loco-directory "Display the real name in addition to the Launchpad name" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495046 [15:57] looks alright to me, if you think it's a good idea to work on it just say "I'll take bug XYZ" [15:58] so we can go through them more quickly :) [15:58] is this for users? [15:58] display a user's real name [15:58] atm just for adding the real name, but it'd be a preparation for future user stuff [15:58] once we have that model it'll be trivial to add more [15:58] do we have real name info coming from LP right now? [15:59] no [15:59] we need schema-change for that [15:59] Django's user table has a space for first and last name, we just need to get them from LP (if they're there) [15:59] it's not crazy amounts of work, but substantial because templates need to change too, etc [16:00] I wouldn't want to split up a display_name string from LP into first and last name programmatically [16:00] it invites too much problems [16:00] not every one put a first and last name on LP [16:01] so, launchpad and ui tags for that one [16:01] think of Spanish names like Pedro Villavivencio Garrido, yes and what YoBoY said [16:01] who's our launchpadlib guru? [16:01] I'm not a guru, but I know that it just has .display_name as one string [16:01] it doesn't have first and last name [16:01] dholbach: we can just dump the entire display name into Django's Firstname field, and treat that like a display name [16:02] let's make that a separate discussion - I personally don't know if it should be the django user or if it should be something else because we might add other stuff in the future [16:02] okay, future discussion [16:02] rock on [16:02] next: bug 496250 [16:02] Launchpad bug 496250 in loco-directory "Current LoCo Contact(s) is not shown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496250 [16:03] should be easy to do [16:03] requires a schema-change too [16:03] next: bug 570613 effie_jayx seems to be on it - does anybody know of any progress there? [16:03] yeah, and team members to update the info, because LP has no concept of a team contact [16:03] Launchpad bug 570613 in loco-directory "Show map of events" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570613 [16:04] mhall119: yep [16:04] dholbach: I'll take 496250 [16:04] thanks mhall119 - can you assign to yourself? [16:05] I'll send a mail to effie-jayx about it and also ask toabctl and huats to have a look because they worked with map stuff in the past a lot I think [16:05] done [16:05] next: bug 579833 [16:05] Launchpad bug 579833 in loco-directory "On team profile page, add flickr stream" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579833 [16:05] aloha [16:05] should be VERY interesting, I don't know how easy or complicated it is [16:05] it'd certainly add more life to the LD :) [16:06] I think this can be considered as "Medium", and it's not a necessary feature addition, but still something desirable [16:06] along with the twitter/identica feeds [16:06] mhall119: ok, I made it High because it was discussed at UDS [16:06] I set the importance to medium [16:06] if anybody's interested in working on that, speak up [16:07] next: bug 582354 [16:07] Launchpad bug 582354 in loco-directory "teams duplicated in listing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582354 [16:07] seems to b ea bit more work, but something we really should fix soon [16:07] yeah, the big question is how to allow the transition without dumping all the old data [16:07] we answered that question [16:07] comment 6 [16:08] right [16:08] does LP provide any kind of internal id that doesn't change? [16:09] no idea [16:09] might be worth finding out [16:09] yeah, then we could avoid having to do anything for this in the future [16:09] * dholbach nods [16:09] can you add the thought to the bug? [16:09] next up is a double pack of bugs: bug 596823 and bug 596826 [16:09] Launchpad bug 596823 in loco-directory "list teams by continent and country" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596823 [16:10] Launchpad bug 596826 in loco-directory "list venues by continent and country" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596826 [16:10] it'd be FANTASTIC to fix them and as far as I can see it wouldn't be complicated as we have all that data already :) [16:10] venues is already grouped by country [16:11] would grouping it further by continent add anything? [16:11] I think it'd be nice [16:11] especially it we do the same thing for teams [16:12] ok, that'd be pretty simple for venues, just an additional regrouping [16:12] the list will get longer and longer, so maybe something like adding anchors at the top would help [16:12] and make the whole LD much more useful [16:12] especially with 100 release parties coming up :-P [16:12] the search function works pretty well for usability [16:13] I guess it helps if you make several offers to find something ;-= [16:13] ;-) [16:13] alright, that's all for the High importance bugs :-) [16:14] it'd be nice if we could get them sorted out in the Maverick time frame [16:14]