=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
=== fta_ is now known as fta
lifelessslangasek: ok I have a little time00:55
slangaseklifeless: hey there01:03
lifelessso tell me now, tell me true01:04
slangaseklifeless: so the process I've been using for package merges is bzr co lp:ubuntu/$package; cd $package; bzr merge-package lp:debian/sid/$package; fwibble-fwibble; bzr commit01:04
slangaseklifeless: and if I look at my local directory afterwards with 'bzr log -n0' or 'bzr tags', the upstream-$version tag is there01:05
slangaseklifeless: and if I do a fresh checkout from lp:ubuntu/$package, the tag is *not* there01:05
lifelessare you pushing back to lp:ubuntu/$package afterwards ?01:05
lifelessI see01:06
lifelessworkaround - don't checkout.01:06
lifelessmake a branch01:06
lifelessthen do 'bzr push :parent' after committing01:06
slangasekworkaround, yes :)01:06
slangasekwhere should I file the bug?01:06
lifelessplease file a bug on bzr saying 'bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propogate new tags'01:06
slangaseklifeless: bug #60339501:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propogate new tags" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60339501:13
james_wthanks slangasek, lifeless01:16
lifelessde nada01:18
lifelessits a one liner01:18
lifelessbut I doubt I'll get to it :(01:18
slangasekeat a dbus?01:21
lifelessE a tad busy01:21
lifelessbut I like your parsing too01:22
robertzaccourI'm using the live cd and installing it. apparently there's a serious kernel problem. i'm gonna let the installer finish and update and find out what happens next01:23
=== fta_ is now known as fta
JontheEchidnaI'm having a bit of trouble with DBus. It's spawning a Polkit-1 helper binary as root, but all the locale environment vars end up set as C02:22
JontheEchidnarather than the system locale02:22
JontheEchidnawhereas starting the helper in a root shell results in the locale environment vars being the system locale02:23
JontheEchidnaIs there anything I can do short of parsing /etc/default/locale to get the system locale?02:24
achiangif i did a 'bzr add foo' and then decide i don't want to commit foo, how do i remove it from the list of things to be committed?04:00
lifelessbzr revert foo04:01
achianglifeless: yuck. that actually undid my changes to foo. :(04:02
lifelessachiang: they will be stored in a ~ backup file04:02
achiangi wanted to do the equivalent of git reset, aka unstage04:02
lifelessachiang: are you perhaps a git user ?04:02
achianglifeless: yes04:02
achiangstruggling with bzr04:02
lifelessbzr, like *every other VCS on the planet* has no staging area.04:02
lifelessyou might like the 'bzr shelve' and 'bzr unshelve' commands04:03
achianglifeless: don't yell at me because git did it correctly04:03
lifelessthey can take a change that you haven't committed and put it to the side for you04:03
lifelessand restore it04:03
achianglifeless: but thank you for pointing out the ~ backup files, that helped04:03
lifelessachiang: I'd like you to get the most out of bzr; assuming it works the same way as git won't get you that :(04:04
achianglifeless: i mean, point taken re: the tools work differently. i just would have expected that the inverse of 'add' wouldn't actually change the file04:05
lifelessif the file was added, revert would have unadded it.04:06
achiangthat expectation came from the fact that 'add' and 'commit' are two separate steps04:06
RAOFWell, “bzr add” doesn't even do what you think it does — bzr commit will commit *all* changes, so you only need to add new files.04:06
lifelessif the file was previously versioned, revert puts it back to the previously versioned state04:06
RAOF(ie: the state of the versioned files on disc and the state of the tree that will be recorded by a commit is the same, barring selective commits via “bzr commit $FILE”)04:07
achiangRAOF: right, i've discovered that bzr commit wants to commit everything, so in my workflow, i've had to manually add the files i changed, and then manually commit them04:07
RAOFlifeless: Incidentally, I didn't notice any colocated branches NEWS in the bzr 2.2 beta 4 notes - has that slipped from 2.2?04:08
achiangRAOF: maybe i don't need that separate add step ; i can just say: bzr commit foo bar baz04:08
lifelessachiang: that doesn't make any sense to me - in git you might say that but in bzr 'bzr add' something that is already added is a no-op.04:08
lifelessyou just say 'bzr commit foo' if you want to commit just foo.04:08
achianglifeless: right, that is just a git-ism. i was assuming that there was an index of some sort in bzr04:09
* achiang stands corrected04:09
RAOFThere is, kinda - “bzr shelve”04:09
FourDollarsachiang: There is no stage concept in bzr.04:09
RAOFBut it works the right way around - ie: by default, you commit your changes :)04:09
achiangthanks for the education. i appreciate it04:10
RAOFbzr shelve is well worth exploring.  It's tremendously useful if you want to separate out a bunch of changes into multiple commits.04:11
achiangdo i need a plugin for that, or does it work out of the box?04:11
RAOFOr just want to keep some debugging kruft uncommitted.04:11
RAOFOut of the boz.04:11
RAOFAhem.  Box.04:11
achiangso, in git, i can say, "git show <sha1>" which will show me the changelog and the patch.04:12
achiangis there an equivalent for bzr? to look at revnos?04:12
lifelessbzr log -p -r X04:13
=== fta_ is now known as fta
RAOFTo expand on lifeless' comment, run “bzr alias show="log -p -n0 "”, then you can “bzr show -r$REVNO”, or just “bzr show” to get the full log.04:14
achiangyep, i was just about to add an alias04:15
achiangthanks lifeless, RAOF04:15
achiangoh! a bzr alias!04:15
achiangnot a bash alias04:15
RAOFbzr is full of love.04:15
=== emma_ is now known as emma
pittiGood morning05:43
pittirobbiew: hello05:43
robbiewpitti: hi05:44
robbiewpitti: can't remember what I wanted...but I answered it anyway :)05:44
pittihehe, the best kind05:44
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
pittiuh, what happened to our buildds..06:19
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dholbachgood morning07:24
pittihey dholbach, wie gehts?07:24
dholbachpitti: sehr gut - und dir?07:25
pittidholbach: prima, danke07:25
macois this the part where you three all have a hug and a beer and pout about losing to spain?07:28
* pitti hands dholbach a beer and hugs him over the loss07:28
pittimaco: great idea!07:29
pittimaco: although 8:30 in the morning is a little early for the beer part07:29
macohmm good point07:29
* maco looks at mvo07:29
macoa cup of tea?07:29
* dholbach hugs pitti back07:29
dholbachpitti: give that beer to mvo instead :-P07:29
=== \vish is now known as vish
dupondjecan somebody let rebuild https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bug-buddy/2.30.0+dfsg-1 ?08:51
dupondjeit builds fine now :)08:51
hyperairdidrocks: have you seen the banshee bugs regarding the netbook interface?08:52
pittiScottK, NCommander: I'd appreciate if you could ack bug 603480 soon, so that we can coordinate the new binarymangler rollout next week; I'll take the responsibility and blame08:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 603480 in lucid-backports "Please backport pkgbinarymangler 70 to lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60348008:53
hyperairbug #602759 and bug #60276008:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 602759 in banshee (Ubuntu) ""Media" header makes no sense" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60275908:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 602760 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Doesn't display application menu in netbook mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60276008:53
hyperairdidrocks: ^^08:53
ricotzcan someone look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xine-lib/ this needs also a rebuild09:02
dupondjegrant dupondje access on 'rebuild button'09:05
pittiricotz: it'll build now?09:10
ricotzpitti, there seemed to be a problem with the archive it is building fine in my ppa09:11
ricotzpitti, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+sourcepub/1226883/+listing-archive-extra09:11
pittiah, I'll retry09:11
pittiricotz: done09:12
dupondjepitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bug-buddy/2.30.0+dfsg-1 => builds also now09:19
=== fta_ is now known as fta
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
psurbhi hie! is there a good place to find more information about Ubuntu udev implementation or its variance from Debian?09:29
* psurbhi looking at debian/changelog in ubuntu and debian's udev package.. shall get back if needs more09:46
dupondjehttps://launchpad.net/builders => we stop building for sparc ?09:58
pittidupondje: do you miss it?10:04
* pitti shakes hand with the new voluntary sparc maintainer10:04
Sarvattack, powerpc too?10:04
dupondjepitti: don't miss it no :) just wondering :)10:05
pittipowerpc is still an official port10:05
pittisparc and ia64 were about to be removed10:05
Sarvattah phew, just saw the powerpc builders were disabled too10:06
dupondjethat will fix alot of ftbfs ;)10:06
pittino, there just seems to be something generally wrong ATM; half of the buildss are broken10:07
wgrantThere was a networking glitch earlier.10:13
wgrantProbably just needs someone to flip the disabled switch on LP10:13
apwcjwatson, i seem to remember saying "my machine isn't suspending every time i close the lid" and you mentioned some bug or other with perhaps pmutils, can you remember/point me at it again?10:16
dupondjehttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbios-ppc/1.0+svn640-1/+build/1729379/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.openbios-ppc_1.0+svn640-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz => can we force to build it on PPC ? as thats why its ftbfs :)10:23
directhexdupondje, there's no way to say arch-all packages have specific build-arch requirements. this is a loooong standing issue which only affects, like, 3 packages10:24
dupondjeok :)10:25
scar_is there a specific channel for xorg releated questions, something in the line of XorgOnTheEdge? I want to compile/configure/install llvmpipe, preferabley just install.10:26
Sarvatt#ubuntu-x, llvmpipe is in libgl1-mesa-dri-gallium in xorg-edgers though10:27
scar_awesome thanks10:28
cjwatsonapw: pm-utils is pretty much the userspace side of power management these days, but I know very little more about it than that10:28
apwcjwatson, must have been someone else, no worries10:29
apwcjwatson, so this pretty grub work ... whats the next step.  i am getting close to cleanish set of patches here, not sure if they will ever be acceptible upstream but at least they are small and self contained10:32
apwi assume we're not ready for them to be in the kernel yet, so perhaps we need a PPA with the bits in?  so people can test ?10:33
=== amitk is now known as amitk-afk
cjwatsonapw: can we at least try to get them upstream?  it would make it easier to get the corresponding grub changes upstream10:40
cjwatsonapw: due to an upstream conversation I'm currently working on writing a no-probe simple linear framebuffer device for the kernel10:40
cjwatsonapw: sort of like efifb but guaranteed never to do anything firmware-specific10:41
apwif i am honest i suspect noone would accept the current approach10:41
cjwatsonapw: I thought it was all nicely tunable now and switched off by default10:41
apwthe "correct" approach probabally is a frame buffer which knows its already filled in like plymouth does10:41
cjwatsonapw: we need both10:41
cjwatsonthe framebuffer device can't help when fbcon just goes and clears the screen10:41
apwwhich picks up the contents and handles it, and then us not moving over to VT7, ie X on VT110:41
cjwatsonno no no no nooooo10:42
apwi am telling you what they are going to say10:42
cjwatsonI don't see why10:42
apwwhat we are doing now is just ignoring the kernels desire to clear and update the VT until we switch to VT710:42
cjwatsonthere's no intrinsic reason X needs to move to vt1, and it breaks so much documentation10:42
apwwhich is at vest vile10:42
apwyes its all configurable, but what it does is utterly underhand10:43
cjwatsonso, wait, I didn't ask for no updates10:43
cjwatsonI only asked for no clearing10:43
cjwatsonwhich I think is much less underhand and much simpler10:43
apwthe only thing that occurs is the clearing though10:43
apwoh and not turn10:43
apwand not turning on the cursor10:43
cjwatsonyeah, but that's already upstream10:44
cjwatsonI really don't see that disabling the screen-clear until boot is finished is all that underhand10:44
apwwell except that what you want is not showing the cursor randomly while we are on VT1 the first time, but on for the second time10:44
apwi am even struggling to put the semantics down in english!10:44
cjwatsonthe problem with this not going upstream is that we have no other way to reserve the flags bit10:45
cjwatsonand not having a flags bit for it is really pretty nasty in grub, as I mentioned10:45
apwin the failure to upstream case we could submit a 'bootloader specific' bit or something10:45
apwor 'distro specific'10:46
cjwatsonshouldn't be distro-specific10:46
cjwatsonwhy don't we have the upstream conversation rather than giving up before we start? :)10:46
apwoh we will, but they won't take sensible patches i suspect they will puke when they see what we have done10:46
cjwatsonthis is *neater* than the no-cursor stuff which already went upstream10:47
apwand they will gladly tell you to confuse all your users to make things clean in the code10:47
cjwatson(which turns it off permanently, and requires horrible hacks in the login binary to turn it on again per-VT ...)10:47
apwreally?  i don't think it is nice at all, it has horrible semantics10:47
apwnecessary semantics perhaps, well only cause we want to switch VTs10:48
cjwatsondepends on your point of view I suppose10:48
apwright, i am a sensible person and can see we might need to do it, but that doesn't stop it pegging my vile meter10:48
cjwatsonbut I think the fact that the no-cursor patch already went upstream, and the fact that folks were working on plymouth/X framebuffer handover, indicates that it isn't just us interested in this10:48
cjwatsonI don't mind if we end up with something different that meets the same basic requirements10:48
cjwatsonwhat I don't want is to have to have fundamentally distro-specific code in the linux loader in grub10:49
apwall understandable10:49
apwi am just warning you that i think we're on for a beating10:49
cjwatsonbecause that introduces some real problems - the same linux loader is used for booting Ubuntu and booting other detected OSes10:49
apwwhich had better ignore unknown bits me thinks10:50
* mvo hugs dholbach10:50
cjwatsonI'd actually welcome a discussion about the semantics; I agree they're grotty as it stands and perhaps somebody can come up with better ones10:50
cjwatsonI'm hoping that this is an example of "post wrong code on the internet and somebody will suggest right code"10:51
cjwatsonat least get the discussion going ...10:51
* dholbach hugs mvo back10:51
apwheh indeed.  well it needs some more shining before its ready for that, but its close10:51
cjwatsonactually, surely there's only *one* screen-clear we need to kill10:52
cjwatsonthe one when fbcon starts10:52
cjwatsondo we have to care about vt switching or any of that gubbins?  just remember whether it's the first screen-clear or not ...10:52
apwcjwatson, no cause you don't want the vt switch to smack you either right10:53
cjwatsonwhich vt switch?10:53
apwfrom vt1 to vt710:53
cjwatsonthe one to X is already handled in other ways, or at least it was10:53
cjwatsonX is supposed to snarf the framebuffer contents on its way up10:53
cjwatsonwe don't need to solve that problem again10:53
cjwatson(I think it snarfs the contents before the vt switch)10:54
apwperhaps this is still doing more than it needs to suceed10:54
apwwill poke some more10:54
tseliotthe switch from vt1 to vt7 takes place when we start plymouth10:54
apwtseliot, before or after plymouth actually starts10:55
tseliottherefore when X starts we're already on vt710:55
apwthat was more my belief too10:55
cjwatsontseliot: are you certain about that?  I thought we changed that in lucid10:56
apwso we have VT1 init which clears, VT1 -> VT7 switch which repaints a blank screen too10:56
cjwatsonapw: but again, there's no need to address the latter problem in the kernel10:56
cjwatsonapw: if it exists, plymouth can deal with it the same way X does - snarf the framebuffer contents before the VT switch10:56
tseliotcjwatson: yes, I'm pretty sure. X simply doesn't clear the framebuffer when it starts on the same vt as plymouth10:57
cjwatsontseliot: ok, well in that case do you agree that plymouth can solve this problem?10:58
tseliotapw: I think we tell plymouth to use vt7, let me check the code10:58
cjwatsonI think you're right, from the changelogs, I'm just misremembering10:58
tseliotcjwatson: what's the problem again? I think I've missed part of the discussion10:58
cjwatsontseliot: trying to eliminate black screens between grub and plymouth10:59
apwcjwatson, the problem then becomes is how does plymouth get the framebuffer contents, when the VT isn't even in framebuffer mode10:59
cjwatsonapw: you mean KD_GRAPHICS?10:59
apwcjwatson, indeed10:59
apwnow maybe thats what we should be doing, putting VT1 into KD_GRAPHICS instead11:00
tseliotcjwatson: the problem is that plymouth clears the screen when it starts11:00
apwtseliot, that is simply a bug though right ?11:00
cjwatsontseliot: userspace problems are shallow :)11:00
apw(in this context)11:00
cjwatsontseliot: I'm trying to figure out exactly what we need to change at the interface between grub and the kernel11:01
cjwatsontseliot: we know that, at minimum, we need to stop fbcon init from clearing the screen11:01
apwcjwatson, so now i wonder what would happen if we simply dropped VT1 into graphics mode based on your bit11:01
cjwatsontseliot: what else do we need to change in the kernel?11:01
tseliotapw, cjwatson: yes, it's something that can be fixed in plymouth. The only problem is that is that if you copy the fb content from a framebuffer that uses a different resolution, the result is ugly11:01
cjwatsonI'm entirely happy for plymouth to repaint the whole screen, it's going to do that anyway (based on the theme) and there's a possibility of a resolution change here which is something I'm prepared to cope with (one problem at a time!)11:02
cjwatsonall I want is for it to be a clean switch11:03
cjwatsonas in, no flicker to black11:03
=== smb is now known as smb-afk
apwtseliot, what interface does X use to read the framebuffer contents11:03
cjwatsonso I guess it doesn't have to read the framebuffer contents11:03
tseliotwell, what I was trying to say is that plymouth clears the screen with a big black rectangle first and then draws the splash11:03
cjwatsontseliot: ok, does it have to have the foreground vt before it does that?11:04
apwtseliot, why the HECK would one do that11:04
apw'i am going to write over the whole screen with a splash, lets waste my time and make it shiney first' ???11:04
tseliotapw: in case the resolution doesn't match11:04
cjwatsonas long as it's doing all this to a non-displayed framebuffer, I really don't care if it puts polka-dots on there first11:05
cjwatsoner, a non-displayed buffer11:05
tseliotcjwatson: would you like to vtswitch only when the splash is ready?11:05
tseliotI'm not sure it's possible11:05
apwgraphics mode is raw isn't it11:05
apwie when a mode is GRAPHICS, then you can't write unless you are the 'current' vt11:06
cjwatsonor, at minimum, at least prepare a suitable buffer and blit it over at once after the vt switch11:06
cjwatsonbut then the kernel probably will clear the screen, so still not idea11:06
apwnot sure it will from <-> to GRAPHICS11:07
tseliotapw: yes, something weird would happen11:07
cjwatsonlooking at X11:07
cjwatsonas far as I can tell, it actually doesn't read the framebuffer contents at all11:07
apwcjwatson, why do we need to VT switch?  this is just to make peoples fingers happy that we are on VT7 yes ?11:07
cjwatsonit just refrains from clearing them11:07
apwcjwatson, what if we just told the kernel that the default VT was 711:08
tseliotcjwatson: we can copy the content of fbcon (if the resolution matches)11:08
cjwatsonthe web is full of documentation that says "when stuff going wrong, you can get a login prompt with ctrl-alt-f1"11:08
cjwatsonapw: that would break server boots.  I'd really rather not go there11:08
apwcjwatson, right ... happy with that ... what if we made the default VT-711:08
apwwhy would it break server boots11:08
apwthey get the same graphics poop we do, then they do something to get the login prompt yes?11:09
tseliotcjwatson: right, X simply creates a root window with no background which makes it possible to see what the framebuffer left11:09
apwa vt switch to 1 i assume ?11:09
cjwatsonwell, not necessarily, a lot of server people disable the splash11:09
apwright and without splash you'll go back to textual grub and not pass me the bit right ?11:09
cjwatsonno, splash is just a word in the command line11:09
cjwatsongrub refrains from trying to parse that stuff, it isn't generic11:09
apwcjwatson, can i just say you are making this hard :)11:10
cjwatsonsystem design back 20 years is making this hard11:10
cjwatsonI'm just trying not to break it11:10
apwsurley we can jsut put a login on VT-7 for server :)11:10
cjwatsonif you think it's hard to get the rest of this upstream, try getting a change of the default VT upstream11:10
apwcjwatson, i was proposing to make the default change only on a bit asking for it, or a command line option asking for it11:11
cjwatsoncan we separate out these two problems?11:11
apwactually a command line option would work with server well as well11:11
cjwatsonI'm not trying to solve everything at once11:11
cjwatsonavoiding the clear on fbcon init would be brilliant for now11:11
cjwatsonand I don't mind if it takes longer to sort out the rest11:12
apwindeed, but the point is there are two issues... that init clears stuff is bad, that the VT switch will too is bad11:12
cjwatsonsure, but I think they need different solutions11:12
cjwatsonand the latter is much less intrusive anyway11:12
tseliotcjwatson: I assume that you want to use the fb that grub provides. Am I right?11:12
cjwatsoninit clearing stuff leaves us with a black screen for multiple seconds11:12
cjwatsonthe VT switch to plymouth will be at most a flickere11:12
apwwell perhaps without some idea of how we are going to resolve it may change how we resolve the other issues11:13
cjwatsontseliot: well - grub will program an fb in order that we have something, but I expect it to be reprogrammed by the switch to KMS11:13
cjwatsonall I'm really trying to get round here is the several seconds of black screen before plymouth starts11:14
tseliotcjwatson: right but some flicker would still happen if the resolution changes11:14
cjwatsonpapering over the join is tricky, but as long as all of the images are as identical as we can make them (modulo resolution) then it will be an improvement over what we have today11:14
cjwatsonI don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good here11:14
tseliotstill better thana black screen for sure though11:14
cjwatsonwe can sit here all day saying that we can't make it perfect, but there are definitely improvements we can make11:14
* tseliot nods11:15
=== amitk-afk is now known as amitk
cjwatsonand I don't think it can ever be exactly right unless (a) grub gets support for programming native panel resolutions or (b) the native panel resolutions are loaded into the vbe bios11:15
tseliotthe former seems more realistic to me ;)11:16
cjwatson(whether (b) would result in a flicker is still questionable, apparently the kernel does have to switch off the panel briefly right now but mjg59 doesn't seem to think that's an intrinsic problem)11:16
cjwatsonsomething to do with changing the panel scaler11:17
tseliotapw, cjwatson: so, to sum up, would it be useful if I made plymouth copy whatever it's in fbcon when it starts?11:20
apwtseliot, what does 'in fbcon' mean ... and how and where do you get to it11:20
cjwatsontseliot: is it possible if the vt is in KD_TEXT mode?11:21
cjwatsontseliot: I actually don't think it would be useful, though, thinking about it11:21
cjwatsontseliot: we want to inhibit the screen-clear11:22
cjwatsontseliot: but that may be partly in the kernel and partly in plymouth11:22
apwcjwatson, as you know what is in there anyhow right, its in /boot/grub/logo.png11:22
cjwatsonright, well ultimately I was going to try to get that dynamically from the plymouth logo11:22
cjwatsonbut yes11:22
tseliotapw: if grub puts something in the framebuffer, I can copy its content by mapping the framebuffer11:22
cjwatson(the approach I gave you is resolution-specific)11:23
cjwatsontseliot: is this significantly different from not clearing to black and just drawing it again, though?11:23
tseliotcjwatson: not much11:23
cjwatsonremind me, when does the switch to kms happen?  it's before plymouth starts, isn't it?11:24
tseliotbut it can take a while before you see the splash11:24
apwkms happens when the driver loads11:24
cjwatsonor rather, it's before plymouth-splash starts11:24
tseliotyes, as plymouth's drm plugin requires kms11:24
apw(kernel driver)11:24
cjwatsonso what happens to existing framebuffer contents when we switch to kms?11:24
cjwatsonthey'll be cleared, won't they?11:24
apwcjwatson, well they get redrawn, from the VT contents11:25
cjwatsonapw: VT text contents, or the prior framebuffer contents?11:25
cjwatsonapw: if the latter, presumably they aren't rescaled (they couldn't be since there may have been text drawn on top)11:25
apwif its in text mode the text contents11:25
apw(i can't see how it could do anytning else)11:26
cjwatsonwhat if it's in graphics mode?11:26
apwthen i believe the kernel asks the mode owner to redraw it11:26
cjwatsonthat's if it's VT_PROCESS too, presumably11:27
cjwatsonyou can be KD_GRAPHICS && !VT_PROCESS, IIRC11:27
cjwatsonand indeed if we were doing something where the kernel starts in KD_GRAPHICS, you'd have to be11:28
cjwatsonso I suppose grub does have to be made to know whether there's going to be a splash screen11:31
cjwatsonif there isn't, then it may well want to keep the better mode (people tend to like big framebuffers as long as they aren't too slow), but it shouldn't preserve the screen contents11:31
apwcjwatson, vt relies on being able to tell someone to redraw on a resize as far as i can see11:31
apwwhether that is fbcon or X11:32
tseliotoh, and as regards clearing the screen in plymouth, some time ago I spoke with upstream and they told me that:11:32
cjwatsonI can only find the text-mode vt resize code11:32
tseliotwith drm modesetting plymouth gets its own "screen" that it swaps in11:32
tseliotso it's not really clearing the screen, just detaching it and putting a new on in place11:32
tseliotbut the initial contents of that "screen" is black11:32
cjwatsontseliot: in that case it should be easy to draw the splash before swapping it in, if it doesn't do so already11:33
tseliotI guess it's not as fast as ideally it should be then, if we can see the black screen11:34
cjwatsonapw: anyway, when Scott and I tested this a few months back, there seemed to be some plymouth bug that broke things on resize, but aside from that the duration of the flicker on resolution change wasn't particularly long IIRC11:34
apwcjwatson, and you were testing with the patch i started from ?11:35
cjwatsonIIRC yes11:35
apwand that patch simply turned off all VT updates in text mode11:36
cjwatsonapw: would setting the vt to KD_GRAPHICS on initialisation be enough to inhibit the screen-clear from fbcon_init?11:36
tseliotcjwatson: it would take some restructuring but it would definitely be possible to do what you suggest by making plymouth render the 1st frame of the splash so that we could have that instead of the black screen11:36
cjwatsonapw: if KD_GRAPHICS + VT_AUTO works at all, and if it has that effect, I think it might well be what we want11:37
apwcjwatson, it not clear you have failure tollerance in that case, or indeed if it would survive the KMS mode change11:37
cjwatsonlet's ignore the latter, it's not obvious it's soluble at that point11:38
cjwatsonfailure tolerance?  you mean things like the ability to display oopses?11:38
apwor indeed to switch to VT-1 to see the text that the kernel put on it yes11:38
cjwatsonI think the solution for that is "disable splash", isn't it?11:38
tseliotyes, it's not nice to leave things in KD_GRAPHICS is something goes wrong11:39
cjwatsonok, so maybe KD_GRAPHICS won't fly11:39
cjwatsonin that case simply inhibiting the initial clear seems like the only kernel change that's particularly viable right now?11:40
apw         * Ignore all switches in KD_GRAPHICS+VT_AUTO mode11:40
cjwatsonthat's probably not good11:41
apwcjwatson, our KMS story is going to look bad i suspect if its going to clear when kms loads11:41
cjwatsonapw: it will look better than it does now :-)11:41
apwwe don't start plymouth till after ureadahear on spinning media i think right?11:41
apwso we'll still get 10s of black11:41
cjwatsonureadahead is 'start on starting mountall'11:43
cjwatsonplymouth is 'start on (starting mountall or [other stuff])'11:43
cjwatsonplymouth-splash is 'started on started plymouth and [got a graphics device]'11:43
cjwatsonI don't know if there's something that explicitly serialises ureadahead before plymouth, but if there is I can't find it11:44
apwcjwatson, cirtianly on my machine i have black for most of the time ureadahead is runnign11:44
apwbut its hard to know if thats kms not loaded yet or what11:45
cjwatsonmy suspicion is that that is Keybuk's intention but is not guaranteed, but that's just my reading of the job graph11:45
cjwatsonwell - udev is 'start on virtual-filesystems'11:45
cjwatsonudevtrigger is 'start on (startup and started udev)'11:46
cjwatsonand virtual-filesystems is emitted by mountall11:46
cjwatsonso you won't get the kms event until ureadahead is done11:46
cjwatsonI mean, userspace won't notice11:46
cjwatsonif it were KD_GRAPHICS + VT_AUTO, then theoretically we could rescale the existing framebuffer contents11:47
apwcjwatson, who can ?11:47
cjwatsonit would have to be the kernel11:48
apwdeep joy11:48
cjwatsonyeah, I know.  I can't think of any other way to do it11:48
apwcjwatson, ever played with the fbcon logo ?11:49
cjwatsonno, although it did occur to me just a few minutes ago11:49
cjwatsonis that scalable?11:49
apwcjwatson, if i am honest i have no idea what it even is11:49
apwthough i have seen a penguin drawn on boot in videos so it could be that11:50
cjwatsonI bet it's not themeable in the ways we'd need11:51
cjwatsonI think I played with it in about 1919811:51
cjwatsoner, 199811:51
cjwatsonyeah, you compile a logo image into the kernel11:52
apwa nice purple background perhaps :)11:53
cjwatsonkubuntu's colour scheme is still blue, iirc11:54
cjwatsonanyway, I don't think the fb logo is resolution-scalable11:54
cjwatsonit's just a ppm11:54
tseliotapw, cjwatson: have you come to a conclusion? (someone shut down my computer here...)12:04
tselioti.e. what's the plan?12:06
apwwe're more confused than ever me thinks12:06
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tseliotapw: hehe12:13
cjwatsonapw,tseliot: I guess I'd like to talk about this with Keybuk when he's around.  Maybe we should take this to mail?12:15
apwcjwatson, sure ok12:15
tseliotcjwatson: sure12:15
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Sarvattapw: 10 seconds of black? you mean people actually run KMS without doing a echo FRAMEBUFFER=y | sudo tee /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/splash? :)12:18
apwSarvatt, what does that do12:19
Sarvattloads the drivers and starts plymouth about a second into the boot :)12:19
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tseliotSarvatt: that has drawbacks though12:20
Guest23585Reading the topic I think im in the wrong place, but, I've just finished porting UBuntu to the iPhone but am having difficulty loading multitouch drivers12:21
tseliotwhich is why we don't enable it by default12:21
Sarvattyeah it's a  bit racy, about 1/20 boots I get a high res text splash12:21
Guest23585I've played with xorg.conf but most of the information I've used is fro X86Free12:21
ScottKpitti: Done.12:21
pittiScottK: cheers!12:21
Sarvattloads the text splash in plymouth then resizes it to the drmfb12:21
Guest23585Is there any dependencies fir touchscreen support?>12:22
tseliotGuest23585: maybe #ubuntu-x is the right chat room12:22
cjwatsonSarvatt: it's also a net slowdown12:22
tseliotGuest23585: yes, the last one12:22
Guest23585Ok thanks anyway12:22
Sarvattweirdly it feels faster because i'm not staring at a ugly screen for 15 seconds on this machine12:23
Sarvatti know it sucks because it's shoving the world into the initrd though, just prefer it that way here :)12:24
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erle-hello, guys12:50
erle-are there any plans to fix the file system layout on amd64 ubuntu12:50
erle-it really sucks12:51
erle-the fedora way is so easy, just let /lib be /lib32, and avery problem of amd64 dissappears12:51
erle-because you could ad every 32-bit-lib to repo12:51
erle-without repackaging12:51
directhexerle-, wrong.12:52
erle-directhex, whats wrong with that?12:52
directhexerle-, most of it, but in short, it fixes only a tiny tiny number of things, at the cost of patching 18,000 source packages12:52
cjwatsonwe've gone over this in a great deal of detail - there's no need to redesign it now.  multiarch just needs to be implemented12:52
erle-but there is no time to wait12:53
erle-its a problem to be solved before 32 bit is obsolete12:53
cjwatsonand it will be12:53
erle-when do you think?12:53
cjwatsonmultiarch has been accepted by Debian as the right design as well12:53
erle-i know that the crappy layout is derived from debian12:54
cjwatsondon't know exactly but we plan to have it before the next LTS12:54
directhexerle-, lib64 is a leftover from sparc solaris12:54
erle-i know12:54
directhexand until itanium rhel/sles use lib64, i don't take your claims seriously12:54
erle-thats all obvious12:54
erle-suse has /lib32 and /lib64 as well12:55
erle-but /lib points to /lib3212:55
directhexonly on amd64.12:55
directhexnot on all 64-bit arches12:55
erle-in debian it points to /lib6412:55
directhexjust amd6412:55
erle-of course12:55
erle-it only matters, where there are two instructions sets12:55
erle-in amd64 it really matters12:55
directhexexcept itanium can run i386 code too12:56
cjwatsonplease read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec - it explicitly refutes this12:56
cjwatsonit's tiresome to repeat it12:56
erle-directhex, but thats software emulated, thats no full support12:57
erle-and later versions of itanium dont afaik12:57
erle-cjwatson, i am going to read that12:58
erle-takes some more time that 1 minute12:58
cjwatsonyou could have read it before continuing the conversation; there was no pressure on you to continue it within a minute. :)12:58
erle-itanium x86 was dead from the first day13:02
directhexhands up if you have a production itanium system, and are in a position to comment13:02
ansgarWhat are the rdeps of libuuid-perl in Ubuntu? If it includes a standard package, it might be worth syncing the last revision from Debian that replaces the dependency on perl by one on perl-base (see http://bugs.debian.org/588427)13:03
cjwatsonitanium is a bit of a red herring for this anyway.  arm is much more interesting nowadays and there are plenty of specific use cases there for 32-bit-on-32-bit emulation.13:03
cjwatsonansgar: it's only in desktop, not standard13:03
cjwatson(and yes, i386-on-arm is software emulation, but so what?  the problems end up being quite similar in practice and they're sufficiently much work to solve each time that we want to solve them once.)13:04
erle-directhex, does anybody have a itanium system?13:06
cjwatsonforget itanium, it's a bad example for this.13:07
erle-that what i wanted to point out :D13:07
cjwatsonit doesn't invalidate the design though.13:07
erle-yeah, i like the design, too13:08
erle-but thats not my concern here13:08
psurbhierle, there is still an existing group doing heavy research on itanium13:08
cjwatsonpeople have already started work on multiarch; there's a gsoc project in progress at the moment to do the apt side of things13:08
cjwatsonjust needs the dpkg side to get done13:09
micahgdoes anyone have time to accept a gjs rebuild in lucid-proposed?13:14
cjwatsonpersia: any progress on bug 294593?13:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 294593 in lash (Ubuntu) "Please merge lash 0.5.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29459313:17
persiaUhh, I forgot about it :)  I'll take a look tonight.13:17
a_okcan someone help me out with this documentation? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto#Static IP13:18
a_okI know I want to configure this but WHERE I might posibly configure this is never mentioned13:19
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cjwatsonchrisccoulson: looks like you and Barry were responsible for the libticonv package.  Can you look at the apparently repackaged version now in Debian, and see if we can fakesync it?  (different .orig.tar.gz)13:50
ogracjwatson, do you know if foundations currently has a dedicated pulse maintainer now that crimson stopped working on it ?13:51
cjwatsonas in, we don't13:51
cjwatsonTheMuso might know13:51
ograyeah, got (and expected) that13:52
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joaopintomvo, do you happen to know if it would be safe to change a  sources.list.d entry on an APT Pre-Invoke Update configuration hook ?14:21
joaopintouse case: a client side script validating and changing the mirror if required14:21
mvojoaopinto: that will not work, the sources.list is read/parsed before that hook is called14:22
joaopintoI was afraid :(14:23
mvojoaopinto: the mirror method got some improvements recently14:23
mvojoaopinto: is that not something you could use?14:23
joaopintoI have played with mirror: a long time ago, need to revisit it14:23
joaopintomirror: fetches the archive just once and uses it for all the subsequent transactions, right ?14:24
joaopintoI mean, the archive url14:24
mvojoaopinto: yeah, it updates the mirror file on each apt-get update14:28
mvojoaopinto: and then uses the mirror it gets from that14:28
joaopintook so it's probably the best option14:28
joaopintomvo, the mirror list gets cached and will be used if the mirror mehtod url is unavailable during a future cache update ?14:33
joaopintojust to make sure we don't keep a single point of failure :)14:35
mvojoaopinto: the mirror list gets cached, yes14:37
chrisccoulsoncjwatson - yeah, i can look at that at some point next week. i'm not working today though14:38
joaopintook, tks :)14:38
cjwatsonchrisccoulson: thanks14:40
ScottKNCommander: mainwindow.cpp:109: internal compiler error: output_operand: invalid expression as operand <-- qt4-x11 on armel.14:40
NCommanderScottK: ICEs go to doko :-)14:41
ScottKNCommander: He's not here, so I pass it to you to pass to him.14:41
evdveldehi all, i am currently an archlinux user, but thinking to switch to ubuntu. However i love to have the newest software possible, so i was wondering... is ubuntu development version stable enough to use daily?14:44
persiaevdvelde: Depends on the day: the place to ask is #ubuntu+114:46
kenvandinecjwatson, we have a rather urgent upload waiting in the unapproved queue for lucid-proposed14:47
kenvandinecjwatson, think you can take a look at it? it's gwibber14:47
evdveldeok thx persia14:47
kenvandinecjwatson, facebook is throttling all gwibber users, and this fix will greatly reduce the amount of load we put on facebook, so the sooner people start to upgrade it the sooner everyone will start to be able to use facebook again14:48
cjwatsonkenvandine: ouch.  accepted14:53
kenvandinethank you very much :)14:53
kenvandinecjwatson, it has been a very painful bug... it is annoying that facebook throttles all gwibber users, not just the ones that are heavy users14:54
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zulcjwatson: i just uploaded a bunch of new landscape-client can we get this accepted into proposed plesae?15:35
cjwatsonzul: not now, have to prepare for the release meeting15:36
zulcjwatson: k15:36
cjwatsonpitti: can you look at bug 595650 please?  it's a regression from your libusb upload15:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 595650 in libusb (Ubuntu Maverick) "After the last updates HP printer stopped working" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59565015:36
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cjwatsonseb128: can your team take bug 600194?  it's on our list for the release meeting, but seems desktopish16:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 600194 in gir-repository (Ubuntu Maverick) "gir-repository fails to build from source in maverick" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60019416:00
seb128cjwatson, yes16:00
seb128cjwatson, I wanted to work on it anyway since I need to do a gir update for other changes16:00
* MattJ frowns at dput... it tells me I just uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com successfully16:01
seb128cjwatson, np16:01
* cjwatson adjusts the agenda16:01
cjwatsonMattJ: the upload will succeed but if you don't have upload permissions then it'll be rejected when the queue runner gets to it16:02
MattJExcellent, thanks16:02
ScottKseb128: What's the url for the desktop team report?  I'll add the Kubuntu stuff to it (Riddell is not available today)16:02
MattJI'm kind of surprised that's there's a default upload destination16:02
seb128ScottK, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus16:03
seb128ScottK, thanks16:03
ScottKseb128: Thanks.16:03
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ScottKseb128: What do I need to do to get gtk stuff to use the menubar?  For Qt/KDE stuff it just does.16:27
seb128ScottK, install appmenu-gtk16:28
seb128and restart your session16:28
ScottKseb128: OK.  Thanks.16:28
* ScottK wonders if plasma-widget-menubar should recommend that then...16:28
lagtkamppeter: ping16:32
smoserjust curious, anyone know why memtest86 would be part of ubuntu-standard ?16:33
lagpitti: ping16:34
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tkamppeterlag, hi16:42
lagOh you are there :)16:42
lagI wanted to ask you about cups16:43
tkamppeterlag, then simply ask.16:43
lagSpecifically: modprobe -q -b parport_pc || true16:43
lagI'm not sure it's such a good idea to be doing modprobes from your scripts16:44
lagIf you modprobe a module for a device which does not exist, it could have dire consequences16:45
tkamppeterlag, this loads the parport_pc kernel module if it is available and if its requirements (I do not know whether a parport must be actually present) are fulfilled. The " || true" takes care that the script is not aborted if the parport_pc module is not loadable.16:45
tkamppeterlag, the module is needed to print on parallel printers.16:46
lagAnd if a parallel port doesn't exist?16:46
maxbA package I got a sponsored upload for (subversion in maverick) FTBFS on armel and sparc. What should I do about it? I don't have access to those architectures.16:49
lagtkamppeter: ?16:50
cjwatsonlag: what dire consequences?  the kernel will give you ENODEV16:50
cjwatsonlag: the kernel isn't that stupid :)16:51
ogracjwatson, sadly it is (atm)16:51
cjwatsonnot for established devices like parallel ports16:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 601226 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference in ppdev module" [Medium,Triaged]16:51
ograsame for parport_pc16:51
ograand same for the omap3 kernel16:52
cjwatsonI'm not surprised about problems on arm, but we don't generally have that kind of problem on x8616:52
ionThats a bug in the kernel, not in anything that modprobes stuff.16:52
cjwatsonand it's unambiguously a kernel bug, not a cups bug16:52
ograbut it doesnt seem so clever to actually hardcode modprobe in the initscript, could that be solved more dynamically16:53
lagcjwatson: I am in the process of fixing the bug in the kernel16:53
lagBut there are bound to be other problems if modules are loaded willy nilly16:53
lagUdev should be used instead16:53
lagOnly only loaded if the hardware exists16:54
lagThis will become a problem for x86 also, when they start to remove parallel ports16:54
lagAnd only*16:54
ionThey’ve been leaving parallel ports out for a long time from PCs.16:54
lagSo this will kill every PM without a parallel port running the Maverick rootfs16:55
lagThere must be a way for you to check if the hardware exists before loading the module (i.e. udev)16:56
cjwatsonlag: loading modules for non-existent devices doesn't usually cause null dereferences in the kernel, and I've never before heard somebody suggest that16:57
cjwatsonparallel ports are often hung off legacy busses that can't be so easily detected16:57
lagcjwatson: I accept that this is also a kernel failing (as I say, I am in the process of fixing that)16:58
cjwatsonparport_pc is one of those devices we tend to just load because detection is often weak16:58
lagI still think these scripts should use the functionality provided for extra security16:59
cjwatsonthat's the problem, my understanding is that the functionality is not always provided16:59
cjwatsonsure, modern PCI devices and such, that's easy17:00
lagWell it must in this case17:00
cjwatsonudev only gets uevents from the kernel if the bus can actually tell you that the device is there17:00
hallyncody-somerville: hey, kirkland` suggested you knew a lot about live-helper.  I'm jsut curious what I did wrong:  I did 'lh clean --binary; lh build'.  That ended up trying to rebuild chroot/ (which i didn't think it would), where i had made some customizations, and then failed anyway, trying to stat chroot/boot/vmlinuz-17:00
hallyn(now i'm just re-doing a full lh_build, with lh_build hacked to pause while i make my changes between stages :)17:01
hallynwhat was the right way to make a change?  (I wanted to drop in my own initrd.img into chroot/)17:01
cjwatsonbut, as far as I can see, only the parport_pc module itself knows how to probe for a PC parallel port17:01
lagcjwatson: A uevent is not sent in this case17:02
lagbut it is on my PC17:02
lagThus, it must be detectable17:02
cjwatsonthat depends on how the parallel port is hooked in17:02
cjwatsonthe IRQ probing stuff is not hooked into a MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE17:03
cjwatsonI don't see how uevents for that would ever arrive17:03
cjwatsonsure, if it's on PCI then fine17:03
keespitti: sourceful retracing is not working right now?17:06
lagcjwatson: So your final word is that directly modprobing the module is the best solution17:06
lagand just hope that it fails sensibly17:07
cjwatsoninsofar as I'm authoritative on this, that is my understanding yes17:07
lagI'll just fix it :)17:07
ScottKseb128: Does appmenu-gtk set some magic config option to prevent menus from hiding?  It worked before on my system with the Qt/KDE stuff and now it doesn't.17:08
lagtkamppeter - cjwatson: Thanks for your time17:08
smosercjwatson, how is it that update-grub gets run on kernel installation or removal ? does one have to have that in kernel-img.conf ?17:09
ScottKjcastro: ^^^ re my question for seb.  Do you know?17:09
seb128ScottK, yes, it installs a Xsession.d script17:09
seb128ScottK, edit it and change the 1 to 017:09
ScottKseb128: Thanks.17:09
seb128export APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=117:09
seb128change that one to 017:09
seb128we will turn it to 0 next week probably by default17:10
cjwatsonsmoser: yes, right now - there's a Debian bug to use /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ for that instead17:10
smoserand is that option in kernel-img.conf just written by the installer then ?17:11
jcastroScottK: we're shutting that off to be "normal" next week17:13
ograsmoser, the bootloader part in the installer sets it (based on the bootloader the system uses)17:13
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cjwatsonsmoser: yes17:14
smoserogra, thanks.17:14
ograwhich reminds me i need to remove that stuff for armel17:14
ScottKjcastro: OK.  It's just a bit unfortunate that it affects the Qt/KDE stuff too, so by intalling the gtk bits, the Qt/KDE bits stop working right.17:14
ograsince debian moved everything flash-kernel related into update-initramfs17:14
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smosercjwatson, you did get a mail from me wednesday/thursday, right ? not pestering, just wanted to verify receipt.17:15
jcastroScottK: I wasn't aware of that17:15
ScottKjcastro: Me neither until a few minutes ago.17:15
cjwatsonsmoser: yes, sorry, haven't got to it yet17:16
smoserno problem.17:16
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cody-somervillehallyn, it doesn't actualy rebuild the chroot/ - all the helpers run though but they skip doing anything.17:47
cody-somervillehallyn, as for the stat chroot/boot/vmlinuz-, thats unfortunately a bug I've ran into as well.17:48
cody-somervillehallyn, if you have a lot of ram, I suggest doing the build on tmpfs. with a local mirror you can do an entire build of ubuntu-desktop in 10 minutes.17:48
hallyncody-somerville: hm, great idea :)  yeah plenty of ram here17:49
hallynbut the time wasn't the point - i wanted to drop in my own hand-built initrd17:49
hallyn(to hack up the casper-helper function)17:49
hallynbut...  it *did* rebuild the chroot/.  it removed it, and rebuilt it.17:50
cody-somervillethe .stage/ files must have been deleted then17:50
cody-somervilleare you sure the entire chroot was rebuilt or are you just guessing?17:51
cody-somervillecause the stat error only happens when you do lh clean --binary;lh build17:52
ricotzcjwatson, hi, do you mind increasing the priority a bit for https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-1.9.2/ ?17:52
cjwatsonricotz: done17:55
ricotzcjwatson, thanks17:56
hallyncody-somerville: yeah, after i started 'lh build', chroot/initrd.img was gone (as were most dirs at first)17:56
cody-somervillehallyn, oh, it stores things in .cache17:57
cody-somervillehallyn, it goes through the entire process but if something is cached then it uses it instead of doing it17:57
cody-somervillesomethings get done no matter17:58
cody-somervillelike probably rebuilding initrd17:58
dupondjeWhat do we do with packages that are (wrongly) named in ubuntu and needs to be synced ? Example xfsprogs (3.1.2-1)  => debian, 3.1.2ubuntu1  in ubuntu ...17:59
hallyncody-somerville: drat, i was hoping chroot/ got built during 'lh chroot', and 'lh binary' woudl jsut package up the binary from chroot/18:00
BlackZdupondje: you should check why there's that number in debian/changelog18:00
hallyncody-somerville: ok, thanks, just having lh_build pause between steps is working for me so i'll stick with that - and start using a tmpfs like you suggested18:00
BlackZerr, version18:00
dupondjeBlackZ: how you mean ? the ubuntu package should be named 3.1.2-0ubuntu1 no ?18:01
BlackZdupondje: however if the ubuntu changes are no longer relevant the version number doesn't matter18:01
cjwatsondupondje: nothing much you can do except make it 3.1.2ubuntu2 in Ubuntu and wait for the next sync18:01
cjwatsoner, the next upstream18:01
dupondjek :)18:01
cjwatsonBlackZ: you don't understand ...18:01
cjwatsonBlackZ: 3.1.2ubuntu1 > 3.1.2-1, so you can't sync18:01
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BlackZcjwatson: ah, yeah18:03
cjwatsonit was 3.1.2ubuntu1 because at the time the Debian version was 3.1.218:03
cjwatsonand 3.1.2-0ubuntu1 would have meant doing a native -> non-native transition in Ubuntu which has its own problems18:03
cjwatsonno good answers when a package is wrongly native in Debian really18:04
dupondjeWhat group you need to be in launchpad exactly to change bug importance ?18:09
BlackZdupondje: for ubuntu bugs, bug control18:09
dupondjecjwatson: couldn't it be changed that 3.1.2-1 > 3.1.2ubuntu1 ?18:14
cjwatsondupondje: no18:15
cjwatsondupondje: do not muck with the versioning algorithm. :)18:15
dupondjebetter spank the debian maintainter :)18:16
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cody-somervillehallyn, why do you need to do that? live-helper has a mechanism to install files into the chroot and/or binary.18:18
smoseri'm wanting to have a package install a file in /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ .  As it is, it gets marked as a config file, and left if the package is removed.  As the postinst.d script invokes something from the package, that seems wrong.18:19
smoserhow should I ensure that the file is removed on package uninstall ?18:20
hallyncody-somerville: jinkeys, that WAS fast18:20
hallyncody-somerville: oh, through lh_config arguments?18:21
hallyni'll have to take a look, thanks for the hint18:21
cjwatsonsmoser: conffiles are removed on purge rather than on remove; the standard is that they must check whether any file they refer to outside /etc exists.18:21
cjwatsonsmoser: you're not allowed to have files in /etc that aren't configuration files18:21
smoserwell, it would seem to me that /etc/kernel/postinst.d goes against that principal18:21
cody-somervillehallyn, no, you can drop files into chroot_local-includes or binary_local-includes after running lh config18:22
hallyncody-somerville: thanks!18:23
cjwatsonsmoser: same principle as init scripts18:23
smoserso you're suggesting '[ -x /path/of/script ] || exit 0' ? I was using initramfs tools as an example, which puts files into the postinst.d, and invokes update-initramfs. it doesn't check, so that would be a bug, right ?18:23
cjwatsonminor bug in the case of initramfs-tools because the kernel depends on initramfs-tools so it's impossible for it not to be installed while running postinst.d18:24
cjwatson/etc/kernel/postinst.d/dkms checks -x18:25
smoserthanks cjwatson18:25
cjwatsontop tip: it helps if you install the version of the package you're trying to test18:33
Lukedoes anyone know the difference between the indicate and appindicator modules in python for the indicator-applet stuff?18:33
Lukeoh i see i'm in the wrong channel18:34
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ricotzchrisccoulson, hello, will there be thunderbird "3.1.1 build1" in maverick? that would be nice18:40
cjwatsonSpamapS: any reason you reopened bug 603363?18:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 603363 in openssh (Ubuntu) "sshd never stops, prevents umount of /usr partition" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60336318:41
cjwatsonSpamapS: I've reclosed it18:46
SpamapScjwatson: doh, I didn't refresh ;)18:46
SpamapScjwatson: the ajax code should flag any clicks that come from a page generated more than 2 hours ago. ;)18:47
SpamapScjwatson: apologies for the confusion. Thanks for fixing that. ;)18:47
cjwatsonideally the ajax code should have some kind of way to spot mid-air collisions in general18:49
cjwatsonit's doing a transaction with the server, after all18:49
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SpamapScjwatson: couchdb does this brilliantly, by assigning every record a generation, allowing developers to simply include that in all communications to the backend, and tell the user "you changed a document that has changed since you read it"18:53
ScottKjcastro: What's a gtk app the works the the appmenu stuff?19:07
ScottKjcastro: Thanks.19:08
jcastroScottK: anything but FF/ooo/chromium should work19:09
ScottKjcastro: Guess which gtk apps I regularly use?19:09
ScottKFF, OOo, and Chromium.19:09
ScottKI'll try gimp.  I at least have that installed.19:09
jcastroI just triggered a crash with it in gimp fyi, apported it19:10
njinHello, everybody19:10
ScottKjcastro: Doesn't seem to work with the Qt/KDE appmenu.  I did install the packages seb said I needed.19:11
jcastrothat should work19:11
ScottKIt may be my fault.19:12
njinI'm installing today's build Alternate amd64 but it failed cause unmert dependencies of imagemagick, it' a work in progres ?19:12
ScottKjcastro: The Qt/KDE thing didn't work at all with the Xsession script, not even with  APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0, so I removed the script.  That was probably overkill.19:12
ScottKI'll play with it some more over the weekend.19:13
jcastroScottK: I'll have agateau and ted/cody in the same room in 2 weeks19:13
jcastroScottK: if you file bugs just toss the "app-menu" tag on em19:14
ScottKI will.  jcastro: You might want to subscribe to bugs for the plasma-widget-appmenu package as it's ALL appmenu stuff by defintion.19:14
jcastrogood idea19:15
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jussicjwatson: you about?19:34
* jussi forgets cjwatson's tz. 19:35
jussianyway, anyone who knows, its rather frustrating that both the kubuntu and ubuntu maverick images are named exactly the same.19:35
jussiperhaps we could get that changed??19:35
SpamapSSo ideally /win 1019:40
zulSpamapS: dude....hah19:46
ScottKjcastro: I got it working in both.  In gtk it wants export APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=0 to not double the menus.   If that environment variable exists at all, then the Qt/KDE version will show double menus.  To get it working for both, you need to just remove that line from the script.19:51
ScottKseb128: ^^^ - When you get rid of the double windows, would you please just remove export APPMENU_DISPLAY_BOTH=1 from the Xsession script instead of setting it to zero?19:52
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ScottKjcastro: http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/menubar-for-gtk-and-qtkde-apps-on-kubuntu/20:39
tumbleweedwhat's the development process for ubuntu-dev-tools? commit to trunk or merge review?21:02
ScottKtumbleweed: Commit to trunk if you're an ubuntu-dev.  Merge review otherwise.21:06
tumbleweedScottK: cool. I have some ack-sync fixes21:06
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jazzanovaI plug in usb headset, and the machine freezes:  10.422:51
ScottKjazzanova: #ubuntu.22:54
jazzanovatoo busy there, those guy are not helpful22:54
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velenohello. i'm following this guide http://blog.petersen.vg/post/237815372/debfile to build a deb. How do I do to install some files in the home directory of the user, instead of putting them in /usr/lib ?23:11
sorenWow. There are so many things wrong with that article.23:12
velenosoren: please point me to a more correct one23:12
siretartveleno: don't. you cannot rely that a home is writeable or even existant at all.23:13
sorenveleno: All I know is the Ubuntu packaging guide, but that's probably not what you need.23:15
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