[00:00] <pleia2> Reminder: We have a poll about the day to collect feedback, so please fill it out after the day when you have a chance so we know how to make things better :) http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ697T7
[00:01] <pleia2> Next up we have ptagliamonte who will be talking about Trusted Software!
[00:01] <paultag> over here pleia2 :)
[00:01] <pleia2> Paul Tagliamonte is a member of the Ubuntu Beginners team, and loves the Red Sox more then life it's self. His 10 years as an GNU/Linux user will aid in presenting material in a digestible manner for new users. Quoting maco about paultag "and on the 19th day, paultag created elephants, then mated them with sheep to make snuffleupagus". Could not have said it better myself.
[00:02] <paultag> Shalom, Aloha and Hallo! I'm Paul Tagliamonte. I've spent a few years working with the Ubuntu Beginners team, as well as the Ohio Team, and the LoCo Council. Shoutout to everyone from my LoCo, any LoCo, and all my Beginners Team buddies! love you guys!
[00:02] <paultag> Well, geez I love bragging, but let me move on to the few little qualifications I have to make, but let me keep the boring stuff to a minimum. Pay attention now, so you understand where I'm coming from later! ( This ain't no airplane safety talk! )
[00:03] <paultag> I'm here to talk about trusted software, and why it matters. This is really important for anyone switching from OSX or Windows, and ( I think ) pretty interesting to anyone who runs a Debian or Debian Derived system ( such as Ubuntu! ).
[00:03] <paultag> I had a *ton* of slides, but I lost them Thursday night. They were all done up with the new Ubuntu font, and pretty colors in the GIMP. They were almost as good as Jono. Sorry all you lernid users, guess you will just have to read :)
[00:04] <paultag> My target audience is really aimed at the new user who has a small to medium degree of technical background who wishes to learn more about the Ubuntu software ecosystem. If you are a GNU/Linux hotshot, chances are most of this is a bit of a review. You can go and get yourself some tea while I start off :)
[00:04] <paultag> I'd like to preface what I have to say with the following bit:
[00:04] <paultag>  {*} I'm not Ubuntu MOTU ( Ubuntu Package Maintainer )
[00:04] <paultag>  {*} I'm not Debian Developer or Maintainer. I do, however work on the `fluxbox` package with two other guys. That hardly counts, though.
[00:04] <paultag>  {*} I'm not a security professional
[00:05] <paultag>  {*} I'm doing this to help new users understand the why of what we do, not an in-depth technical review of what we do
[00:05] <paultag> Stuff that I present could be wrong. The issues, however, won't be the concepts. If you ask me a technical question, I will answer it to the best of my ability, but I do not want to assert that I know everything there is to know about Debian packaging. That, of course, is wildly false :)
[00:06] <paultag> Some things to know:
[00:06] <paultag> Ubuntu comes from Debian. We sync our packages every six months, and we largely pull from Debian. We give lots back, but they are our "Upstream". Ubuntu users, therefore, can trust Debian developers, and repositories.
[00:06] <paultag> Keep this in mind for the next 50 minutes :)
[00:07] <paultag> So, I'd like to start off with a quote from the philosopher Frank Zappa ( Don't laugh, he rocks! ) --
[00:07] <paultag>  "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
[00:07] <paultag> Ubuntu and Debian are only here because one of us hackers ( not crackers! ) thought "Humm, well this way seems better, let's try it out!". After a few applications of the evolutionary theory, the best ideas stuck around.
[00:07] <paultag> Darwin would surely be proud.  :)
[00:08] <paultag> One of these radical changes was a bit of software called "dpkg"
[00:08] <paultag> dpkg let users install pre-compiled packages, cutting out the need for a C(++ perhaps?) compiler, and hours of time to build the system up. After all, building from source is a tad painful ( don't think the Gentoo guys have figured that out yet! )
[00:09] <paultag> This, however had already been done before. What made dpkg different were it's new features. It tracked files in the filesystem, maintained dependencies, and "just worked".
[00:09] <paultag> After a bit more time had passed, the system we use today was perfected. `apt` was born. Huzzah!
[00:10] <paultag> So, what makes the apt system so great?
[00:10] <paultag> Trust. Trust is what ties together the whole system.
[00:10] <paultag> No, not take-it-on-faith-this-site-does-not-look-sketchy-i'll-just-install-it trust, but real trust.
[00:11] <paultag> Let's face it. Most crackers and black-hats are pretty damn good at what they do. If they can get you comfortable with exploiting your own system, they know a thing or two. If they are good enough to know how to keep the infection process subtle, chances are they will have the exploit be subtle.
[00:11] <paultag> It's not often that a computer virus will go through and destroy the box bit-by-bit, or have lots of pop-ups, that hack has been dying out for years. More often then not, it's more effective to use your computer as part of a bot net.
[00:12] <paultag> It's like the difference between spray painting a wall to show off how cool you are versus running a pyramid scheme from inside the building. One pisses people off, and the second makes you money while you piss people off.
[00:14] <paultag> So, even if you had installed that shady bit of software, it might work just fine -- but also be "hacked".
[00:14] <paultag> When you install something on Windows, there is this natural process that one goes through. The first step is identifying what you want. Bob here is currently in the market to talk with Carroll. Carroll says "Just skype me!". If Bob can't find the Skype website, Bob googles "Skype", and clicks on the first site that looks like it might have the .exe on it.
[00:15] <paultag> Bob finds the .exe from Thiston, our Third Party, and installs it.
[00:15] <paultag> Everyone still with my using my A-B-C / Third Party setup? Good? Good.
[00:16] <paultag> See, Bob trusts Skype, but Bob sure as heck does not trust Thiston. In fact, Thiston may or may not have injected malicious code into the Skype packge to be installed. Bob does not know, after all, he just wants to talk with Carroll.
[00:16] <paultag> Well wait a minute! When did it become OK to just install anything from anywhere!?
[00:16] <paultag> Back to trust, and Ubuntu.
[00:17] <paultag> With Ubuntu you type "sudo apt-get install skype". I'm not here to flaunt how much we've cut out of the google'ing process, or even how easy you all know it is, rather, just start to point something out. All the software comes from these big blobs called "Repositories".
[00:19] <paultag> They are similar to the app store for an iPhone or Android
[00:19] <paultag> I can hear you all asking already "Well, fine. What's the difference between a website full of software and your special little website-repository-thing full of software?"
[00:19] <paultag> One key thing. Trust. I know I keep coming back to this, but that's how it works. Not just anyone can upload to the repository. A select group of highly trained and marginally insane folks known as the MOTU in Ubuntu, and Debian Developers in Debian have access to the packages.
[00:21] <paultag> [19:21] <rogerdg> What does MOTU stand for?
[00:21] <paultag> [19:21] <maco> Masters of the Universe ( Thanks, Maco! )
[00:21] <paultag> The process for getting a package into Debian is actually quite difficult, from the outside. It requires an intensive review, and quite a bit of "book keeping". Each package is evaluated on it's suitability to be placed in the archives. License issues are evaluated ( DFSG, or Debian Free Software Guidelines for Debian, and a slightly more liberal approach for Ubuntu ), as well as a review of the source code.
[00:22] <paultag> If the package is eligible for upload into the repositories, an enterprising dev-head in the Debian community ( or Ubuntu community requesting to upload to Debian ( being our upstream, and all ) ) will package the software with lots of data on where it came from, who it came from, how it can be distributed, as well as what it does.
[00:23] <paultag> This template file will be uploaded for review, and sponsored. If the person doing the packaging is a Debian Developer, they are considered part of the project it's self, and may upload a package once they see that it's suitable.
[00:23] <paultag> Let's stop here for a second --
[00:23] <paultag> Why can we trust a Debian Developer?
[00:24] <paultag> [19:23] <regi> If a software or a software update is added to the debian repository, is it also automatically included in ubuntu?
[00:24] <paultag> regi: Yup, every 6 months we sync with Debian
[00:24] <paultag> Before I can answer that, I need to answer another question -- How can we trust a Debian Developer.
[00:25] <paultag> The answer is a system called "GPG" or "GnuPG". ( Thanks, dad for talking this out with me last week!! ) It's a F/OSS ( Free / Open Source Software ) implementation of the PGP library. In nerd speak, it uses a symmetric key pair to assert identity. One side is public ( anyone and everyone can have a copy without it causing security concerns ) and the second is private ( super-top-secret ).
[00:26] <paultag> When you take your private key and "touch" a document, it leaves a "fingerprint" on it. This "fingerprint" is totally unique to your key, and can not be duplicated or forged ( by use of a one-way hashing function ).
[00:27] <paultag> In addition, this key can be "touched" by other people, leaving their fingerprint on your key. When you "touch" someone else's key, it shows that you know them. This is called signing a key.
[00:27] <paultag> DD is a Debian Developer, by the way ( If I ever use that term, thanks jledbetter )
[00:28] <paultag> In order to become a Debian Developer, you must have a key signature by an existing Debian Developer. To have your key signed, you must meet up in real live, and present your ID and key signature. This is a one-way relationship ( saying "Alice trusts Bob" does not say "Bob trusts Alice" ), however, most key signs are reciprocated.
[00:29] <paultag> This builds up something known as a "Ring of Trust". This ring means that every single developer can trust the origin of anything signed by another developer.
[00:30] <paultag> Since the Debian Project is nothing but the collection of Debian Developers, the Debian project can trust the origin of any file by another developer.
[00:31] <paultag> There is something called the "Strong set" which is a huge network that is very very tight
[00:32] <paultag> So, why can we trust a developer?
[00:32] <paultag> If we trust the project, and the project trusts the developer, then we trust the developer. It's as easy as that.
[00:33] <paultag> Well, what if this vetting process is compromised, after all, GPG signatures only verify identity, not trust
 [the strong set] is the largest set of pgp keys on public servers that are all able to reach each other
[00:33] <paultag> You can read a bit more about it http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/plot/ <-- ( thanks again maco! )
[00:34] <paultag> Anyway, back on track --
[00:34] <paultag> Back It takes about two years of quality work before you can even be considered for Debian Developer status. Before you could even start to think about compromising the system, you have to spend a considerable time and effort. This will deter most people.
[00:35] <paultag> This does not, however, exclude the possibility. If a Debian Developer is found to be compromising the integrity of the package, they will be removed from the project. Keep in mind that the Ubuntu ecosystem is identical.
[00:36] <paultag> So, we can ensure that this big repository is safe, and reviewed. So, when we install from this repository, we can ensure our system is safe. After all, if we trust the OS to run on the PC, we can surely trust software they provide as safe.
[00:36] <paultag> So, let's get back to basics. Some stuff that goes on that makes this system tick:
[00:37] <paultag> Hash-sums. No one in any of the systems can escape verifying the checksum of the file. When the upstream .tar.gz file ( source package ) gets imported, it's hash checksum is computed, and logged. Under *NO* conditions should the Debian developer or Ubuntu MOTU modify the .tar.gz without explaining why it was changed, in detail.
[00:38] <paultag> The only sitution that this is done is dfsg compliance. dfsg changes are usually just removing stuff, but when a maintainer does this, it is verified as to exactly what was changed. a
[00:38] <paultag> After this, the dsc is created ( any patches are contained in the dsc upload files, and easily viewed as to what each does ) and "touched" by the developer.
[00:39] <paultag> What this all means is that all changes are documented and attributed to the developer who made them. Any changes to their changes will cause a checksum failure, and an invalid package.
[00:39] <paultag> This means that we can be totally sure as to where a file came from, and audit the authenticity of any and all packages.
[00:39] <paultag> Can't do that with a .exe or .dmg!
[00:40] <paultag> When you download and install a .exe from any site other then it's author's, you are exposing your machine to a potental security risk.
[00:40] <paultag> Similarly, installing .deb files from just anywhere is just as bad. After all, because it's not trusted by your operating system, it's not trusted by you!
[00:40] <paultag> When you install a package, it installs as root. This means that there is zero ( read: *NO* ) security protection or limits. Since there are package scripts that can run before and / or after install or removal, the script can run any code *at* *all*.
[00:41] <paultag> This is useful for installing a new system service, but quite the opposite for installing a security backdoor.
[00:42] <paultag> So, what happens when you need to install some software, but it's not in the Ubuntu repository?
[00:43] <paultag> There are a few things you can do here. The first course of action is to check sister and parent distros for the package in question. First, check upstream. Look to Debian Testing or Debian Unstable. It's true that we are not Debian, but installing a package from upstream is a lot better then some of the other ways to get the software. This can lead to issues, but again, these issues are a whole lot better to deal with rather then rooting 
[00:43] <paultag> After all, it's not hard to put sshd as a dependency on a package ( that does not need it ) and set the root password in the pre/post install script!
[00:44] <paultag> If all this fails, look to downstream. Check Mint, or any other Ubuntu branches. If it's a reputable distro, it might be compatable, and again, worth a shot.
[00:45] <paultag> Lastly, look to "stranger" distros. Check out Red Hat, CentOS, Fedora, Slackware -- and try and massage the package into your system with `alien`. This can ( and will ) cause problems with long-term use, but it's OK for a quick-and-simple one-shot.
[00:46] <paultag> [19:46] <benhosmer> I'd never heard of 'alien' is this debian specific command?
[00:47] <paultag> benhosmer: it's a command that converts 'alien' packages into Debian packages. It's not debian specific as such, because it can work both ways
[00:47] <paultag> [19:46] <Lrpbpb> not sure if it is relevant, but where do ppa come into all of this?
[00:47] <paultag> Lrpbpb: PPAs are a bit better, but they still have untrusted software. Always trust the author of a PPA!
[00:48] <paultag> PPA stands for Personal Package Archive
[00:48] <paultag> ( Just FYI )
[00:48] <paultag> [19:48] <benhosmer> so alien is a 'nix command?
[00:48] <paultag> benhosmer: first of all it's *n[u|i]x, it's linUx ;)
[00:49] <paultag> benhosmer: second of all, it should work on most GNU platforms
[00:49] <paultag> Worst comes to wost, and it's nowhere to be found. Well, uh oh. Contact the author. Developers love hearing from users.
[00:49] <paultag> See if the author would be willing to try and get the package into Debian. There is lots out there about how to get the software into the ecosystem.
[00:50] <paultag> Failing all this, you can try to install from source. Installing from source is always dangerous, and can be overwhelming. I'd rather not get into the process in this session, it's something entirely out of the scope of this session.
[00:50] <paultag> [19:50] <ddecator> you can also file a "needs packaging" bug if you really want
[00:50] <paultag> You sure can, thanks Dray :)
[00:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:50] <paultag> You can use some tools like `checkinstall` to make things easier. These tools let you follow the normal procedure of installing from source, and also keeping it in a deb format. These deps should really be not be distributed. There is a reason the process is the way it is, if you know what I mean. :)
[00:51] <paultag> Let me finish up my last little bit and I'll get to questions
[00:51] <paultag> Another big no-no is using wget to download a script, and run it. Running wgot files is very dangerous, even more so when the files are of unknown origin. Something like the alsa script from the alsa website it's self is OK, but a script off someone's personal website for software they are not involved in is a big no-no.
[00:51] <paultag> If you are forced to do this, please have someone look over the file. It's far too easy to compromise a machine with a shell script. About 7 months ago, someone posted a hack as a screensaver and infected a few machines because people ran malicious commands unwittingly. Try and avoid the "Look something shiny" effect with software
[00:52] <paultag> take your time installing it, rushing anything is bad
[00:52] <paultag> OK, I have 10 minutes left, so, I'm going to open the remaining bit of this period to questions. I know what I just rattled off was a whole lot, and there is a lot of stuff that I glanced over that really is key to what we are talking about. I'd love to clarify any questions you might have :)
[00:54] <paultag> [19:53] <suprengr> QUESTION: a popular non-trusted add-on is Ubuntuzilla - why?
[00:54] <paultag> [19:54] <suprengr> ...as in why do people think its safe
[00:54] <paultag> Well, it is :)
[00:55] <paultag> there is a peer review going on
[00:55] <paultag> if there is a site where there is this huge dump of software, and people say "Wow, that's great" and it's Open Source, it can gain a reputation
[00:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:55] <paultag> since the site is trusted by your web-browser ( Firefox ) you can depend on it not destroying your box
[00:55] <paultag> if you just download it from hacksite.info, it would be an issue
[00:55] <paultag> [19:54] <Lrpbpb> QUESTION: is there any way of knowing IF the system has been compromised?
[00:56] <paultag> Great question!
[00:56] <paultag> It really depends on how it was comprimised. There is a lot of peer-review going on, so people who check over new changes are really the first line of defense
[00:57] <paultag> If it's a slick change that's made it in deep, it's very very hard to discover. We are lucky, however, that most professionals use GNU/Linux in their infrastructure and verify their system's integrity
[00:57] <paultag> [19:57] <maco> Lrpbpb: chkrootkit is a good start
[00:57] <paultag> [19:57] <maco> Lrpbpb: also, debsums
[00:57] <paultag> Yeah, these are great ways to manage the system. Debsums will check the dpkg database on each file
[00:58] <paultag> and it will even be less prone to failure due to defers in the dpkg system
[00:58] <paultag> ( if two packages provide the same file, debsums will know it's only going to be the one that's actually in there, and won't throw a false positive )
[00:59] <paultag> But the main, and best method is to always be wary of how the system is running
[00:59] <paultag> report any issues you find, after all, we can't ESP bug reports just yet
[00:59] <paultag> Any other questions in the last 20 seconds?
[01:00] <pleia2> thanks paultag!
[01:00] <paultag> Thanks guys!
[01:00] <paultag> sure thing pleia2
[01:00] <pleia2> Reminder: We have a poll about the day to collect feedback, so please fill it out after the day when you have a chance so we know how to make things better :) http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ697T7
[01:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Using Launchpad: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/slides/userdaylucid/UsingLaunchpad.pdf
[01:00] <pleia2> Another reminder, when you're asking questions, please prefix them with QUESTION: so the instructors using classbot can easily have them posted
[01:01] <pleia2> Now we have ddecator joining us to talk about Launchpad :)
[01:01] <pleia2> Draycen DeCator is a member of the Ubuntu BugControl and Ubuntu Beginners teams. He is a Psychology student at DePaul University in Chicago. His session will cover how users can effectively use the Launchpad site, especially with regards to the Ubuntu project. Draycen is often found on IRC and is always willing to answer questions.
[01:01] <ddecator> Hello everyone, and welcome to the "Using Launchpad" session!
[01:02] <ddecator> pleia2 was kind enough to already explain how to ask questions :)
[01:02] <ddecator> Rather than go into extreme detail for each section, I will be giving a summary of each resource Launchpad provides, then I'll be open to questions after each section and at the end of the session
[01:03] <ddecator> This session also has a corresponding slideshow for those of you using Lernid (which should be displaying already since ClassBot provided the URL)
[01:03] <ddecator> If you are not using Lernid, then you will only miss out on screenshots of certain Launchpad pages. These screenshots can help you understand what I am talking about, but you can follow along in any IRC client and still be fine. You can also download the slideshow using the provided link and follow along manually
[01:04] <ddecator> Finally, I recommend you login to Launchpad.net now (or create an account if you need to) at this time. I will try to go fairly slow so you can see what I'm talking about on the site for you hands-on learners :)
[01:04] <ddecator> Alright, with that out of the way, let's begin!
[01:04] <ddecator> [SLIDE 1]
[01:04] <ddecator> Launchpad is a site dedicated to helping projects be successful. In order to do so, the site offers many of the services needed by project leaders
[01:05] <ddecator> The site can be used for free if the project is open-source, or for a fee if the project is closed-source
[01:05] <ddecator> That being said, we're hear to learn users can actually use the site!
[01:05] <ddecator> learn how users*
[01:06] <ddecator> [SLIDE 2]
[01:06] <ddecator> The main areas of Launchpad are Project Overviews, Code hosting, Bug tracking, Blueprints, Translations, and Answers
[01:06] <ddecator> We will cover each of these areas one at a time, starting with...
[01:06] <ddecator> [SLIDE 3]
[01:06] <ddecator> Project Overiews!
[01:07] <ddecator> Every project on Launchpad gets an overview page where the owners/maintainers can provide a description of the project, link to webpages related to the project, and link to the Launchpad tools the project uses
[01:07] <ddecator> Project leaders must enable each of Launchpad's services if they want to use them. As a result, some projects just have an overview page that links to their bug tracker and website.
[01:08] <ddecator> Even if that's the case, the overview page is a great resource for users who want to learn more about a project, or package, and how they can get involved
[01:09] <ddecator> [SLIDE 4]
[01:09] <ddecator> Here is the Ubuntu project's overview page
[01:09] <ddecator> In the picture, I have added red arrows pointing out how you can reach the other areas of Launchpad used by the project
[01:09] <ddecator> For example, clicking on "Bugs" will bring you to a page listing all of the reported bugs related to Ubuntu
[01:10] <ddecator> The links on the right, under "Get Involved," can be used if you want to help with the project, and they are fairly self-explanatory
[01:10] <ddecator> For example, if you click "Ask a question," you will be brought to a page where you can fill out a question and add it to the Answers section (which we will cover later in the session)
[01:11] <ddecator> The overview page also gives information on versions of the project that have been released, what version is the current development focus, who owns the project, and who the top contributors to the project are
[01:11] <ddecator> OK, are there any questions at this point?
[01:13] <ddecator> Great! Now that everyone is on the same page, lets go through each section listed on the overview page in order
[01:13] <ddecator> [SLIDE 5]
[01:13] <ddecator> First up is the "Code" section
[01:13] <ddecator> If you go to a project's code section, you can see what "branches" of code are hosted for the project on Launchpad
[01:14] <ddecator> Code branches are basically directories that contain code needed by projects. Usually there is one branch for each version/release of the software.
[01:15] <ddecator> These branches are created and manipulated using the Bazaar (bzr) tool
[01:15] <ddecator> Using bzr, users can easily pull (download) code from Launchpad, view/manipulate the code, and push (upload) the code back to Launchpad
[01:16] <ddecator> For more info on how to use bzr, you can run "bzr --help" in a terminal (if you have bzr installed)
[01:16] <ddecator> Launchpad also uses Loggerhead, which allows users to view a branch's contents from their web browser
[01:16] <ddecator> [SLIDE 6]
[01:16] <ddecator> Loggerhead is a great tool if you want to see what files and directories are in a branch, or if you want to view the contents of a file in a branch without having to download everything
[01:17] <ddecator> To use Loggerhead, you can go to a project's code page, click the branch you want to view (such as "lp:firefox"), then on the branch's page you can click the "View the branch content" link, which will bring you to Loggerhead
[01:18] <ddecator> Using Loggerhead, you can click through directories and files and view their contents
[01:18] <ddecator> You may also notice that on a branch's page you can see the latest revisions near the bottom of the page
[01:18] <ddecator> Clicking "All revisions" will bring you to a Loggerhead page that shows you all of the revisions made to the branch, along with the description given by the person who made the change, and a list of what files were changed
[01:19] <ddecator> This tool is very helpful if you want to see when a certain change was made, who made the change, and/or how the change was made
[01:19] <ddecator> Alright, is everybody still with me? Any questions?
[01:20] <ddecator> [SLIDE 7]
[01:21] <ddecator> Bugs is a commonly used area of Launchpad
[01:21] <ddecator> Users who run into a bug in a program can use Launchpad's bug tracker to let the developers know about the issue so they can fix it (if the project has decided to use Launchpad's bug tracker instead of their own)
[01:21] <ddecator> If you go to a project or package's bug page, you can see what bugs are open, and you can search by keyword, status, etc.
[01:22] <ddecator> For Ubuntu, if you run into an issue with a program you should file a bug against the package if possible instead of the "upstream" project. Sometimes bugs are due to a patch applied just on Ubuntu, or a mistake with the packaging. If the bug needs to be handled by the developers, then we can forward reports upstream
[01:22] <ddecator> If you have a bug, you can use Launchpad to search the current bug reports to see if it has been reported already
[01:23] <ddecator> [SLIDE 8]
[01:23] <ddecator> In the event that you find a bug report for your issue, you can mark the bug as affecting you by clicking the "This bug affects # people. Does this bug affect you?" link. Marking a bug as affecting you helps developers see what bugs are affecting the most users, and thus need a higher priority
[01:23] <ddecator> You can also subscribe to a bug report using the "Subscribe" link on the right side of the report's page
[01:24] <ddecator> If you do not find a report for the bug you are experiencing, you can click "Report a bug" on a project's overview page or, for Ubuntu, run "ubuntu-bug <package>" in a terminal (which adds debugging info to the report automatically)
[01:24] <ddecator> Either option will bring you to a Launchpad page where you can fill in the details about the bug and attach files such as logs or patches
[01:25] <ddecator> After a bug is reported, a triager will hopefully find your report and help make sure there is enough info for the developers. If you reported a bug or are subscribed to a bug, you will receive emails for new comments and changes to the report so you will know if more information is requested
[01:25] <ddecator> A quick note: If you find a report for a bug you are experiencing, feel free to add a comment if you can add new information, but please avoid leaving comments that just say "I have this too" since that does not help much :)
[01:26] <ddecator> On Ubuntu, bug triage is largely handled by the BugSquad. Users who want to help with bug triage can learn more at the BugSquad's wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[01:26] <ddecator> OK, any questions about the bugs section?
[01:27] <ClassBot> suprengr asked: not the point in hand [except bugs=karma] but doesn't the "karma"points system smell a bit of class/caste descrimination?
[01:27] <ddecator> Good question, karma is something a lot of users wonder about
[01:28] <ddecator> In reality, karma means nothing. Karma points are given to "reward" users for helping out, but some of the most involved developers only have a few hundred karma points
[01:29] <ddecator> Having more or less karma than someone else in no way makes you better or worse, and community members know this :)
[01:29] <ddecator> Any other questions before we move on?
[01:30] <ddecator> Real quick: If you want more info on how karma is determined, you can go here: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[01:31] <ddecator> Alright, moving on
[01:31] <ddecator> [SLIDE 9]
[01:31] <ddecator> The Blueprints section is more helpful for project maintainers than users, but some users may find them handy
[01:31] <ddecator> Blueprints are a way for project maintainers to keep track of what their plans are for a project, and they can mark things done as they go along
[01:32] <ddecator> Users who want to see what is planned for the future of a project can look to see if the project has any blueprints hosted on Launchpad
[01:32] <ddecator> You are even able to subscribe to blueprints so you will get emails whenever the blueprint is updated
[01:32] <ddecator> Since blueprints are more for project maintainers than users, I don't have much more to talk about
[01:33] <ddecator> Any quick questions about blueprints before we move on?
[01:35] <ddecator> [SLIDE 10]
[01:35] <ddecator> A very nice and useful area of Launchpad is Translations
[01:35] <ddecator> Most programs are written in English, so they need to be translated for non-English speakers to effectively use them
[01:35] <ddecator> Users are able to see how much of a project is translated via the Translations area
[01:36] <ddecator> [SLIDE 11]
[01:36] <ddecator> The Ubuntu Translations page shows a progress bar next to each language which tells you how much of the project has been translated to that language
[01:36] <ddecator> Users who are fluent in a non-English language are more than welcome to help out with translating Ubuntu
[01:36] <ddecator> From the Ubuntu Translations page, you can click your language, then see what packages need translating into your language
[01:37] <ddecator> If you find a package that has red in the progress bar (meaning it has strings (sentences) that are untranslated), then you can click that package and you will be brought to a screen where you can translate different strings
[01:37] <ddecator> Launchpad will also show you some current translations so you can review them and suggest a new translation if you feel it can be improved
[01:38] <ddecator> When you first go to translate, Launchpad will ask you to license your translations under the BSD license so projects can use your translations, so please do so if you want your translations to be used effectively
[01:38] <ddecator> OK, any questions about translations?
[01:40] <ddecator> [SLIDE 12]
[01:40] <ddecator> And finally, the last section is Answers
[01:40] <ddecator> This section allows users to submit questions to projects and, hopefully, get an answer from a maintainer or someone familiar with the project
[01:40] <ddecator> For Ubuntu, Answers supplements the forums and IRC
[01:41] <ddecator> If you have a question that is specific to a project or a package, you can go to the project's page and click "Ask a question" on the right side
[01:41] <ddecator> [SLIDE 13]
[01:41] <ddecator> From there, you will be prompted to state your question. Launchpad will then suggest any questions that seem to be similar (just in case someone has already asked your question)
[01:42] <ddecator> If your question has not been asked, then you can provide more details and post the question
[01:42] <ddecator> The processes for asking a question and reporting a bug are very similar, so if you've done one then you should have no trouble doing the other
[01:42] <ddecator> Users are also welcome to share their knowledge and help answer questions
[01:43] <ddecator> If you go to the Answers section of a project, you will see a list of questions that have been asked
[01:43] <ddecator> You can find a question that you can answer, click the link, then leave a comment and change the status (if appropriate)
[01:43] <ddecator> Much like other areas of Launchpad, you can also subscribe to questions so if there are any responses you will get an email
[01:43] <ddecator> Alright, any questions on the Answers section?
[01:45] <ddecator> [SLIDE 14]
[01:45] <ddecator> There are several areas where you can receive help with using Launchpad if you run into problems
[01:45] <ddecator> On IRC, we have the #launchpad and #ubuntu-beginners-launchpad channels (both on freenode, and the latter is relatively new, so it may be quiet)
[01:46] <ddecator> The Launchpad help site (which I have linked to throughout the slideshow) is also a great place to find detailed info on all areas of Launchpad
[01:46] <ddecator> Finally, one of the best tools Launchpad offers is the "staging" site
[01:46] <ddecator> https://staging.launchpad.net/
[01:46] <ddecator> On the staging site, you can go through menus, make changes, and get an overall feel for how the site works without any of the changes actually being made on the main site
[01:46] <ddecator> This is great if you want to try contributing but aren't sure how the process works yet. You can go to a bug, change the status, leave a comment, and so on without fear of doing anything wrong
[01:47] <ddecator> If you're on the staging site, you will see "demo" in the background. That way you will always know if the changes you are making will be saved or not
[01:47] <ddecator> Alright, I think that's everything I needed to talk about! The rest of the session can be used for questions, so ask away :)
[01:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:50] <ddecator> If you want to report a bug using ubuntu-bug and Launchpad's staging site, you can run "APPORT_STAGING=1 ubuntu-bug <package>"
[01:51] <ddecator> Apport is the program called when you run "ubuntu-bug" and it handles collecting debugging info from your system
[01:51] <ClassBot> rogerdg asked: If a user has found a flaw in an application and wants to report it, but the bug reports say the problem has been fixed what should the user do?
[01:51] <ddecator> Very good question!
[01:52] <ddecator> First, the user should make sure their software is fully up-to-date (just in case they haven't received the update that fixes the bug yet)
[01:52] <ddecator> If it is, and the problem still persists, then there is likely a regression in the program
[01:53] <ddecator> In this case, it is best to open a new report using ubuntu-bug, then mention the previous report and mention that it may be a regression
[01:53] <ddecator> This is easier for developers to handle than dealing with bug reports being re-opened and getting longer and more disorganized
[01:54] <ddecator> We have ~6 more minutes for questions :)
[01:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:57] <ddecator> We still have a few more minutes for questions, but I just want to mention real quick that everyone is welcome to PM me on IRC if they have any questions
[01:59] <ddecator> Ah, maco bring ups a good point. Bugs marked "Fix released" may be fixed in the development release, but not the stable. If the issue isn't security related, it may not be fixed in the stable release
[01:59] <ddecator> Thanks maco :)
[02:00] <ddecator> OK, thanks to everyone for attending, I'm going to pass things on to the awesome maco and pleia2!
[02:02] <Pendulum> thanks ddecator!
[02:03] <Pendulum> Next up is pleia2 and maco talking about Desktop Environments: Gnome, KDE, XFCE
[02:03] <Pendulum> Please remember to fill our our survey after your last course for the day!
[02:04] <Pendulum> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ697T7
[02:04] <Pendulum> Elizabeth Krumbach is a member of the Community Council and has been using Xubuntu since she began down the *buntu road several years ago. She works as Debian Sysadmin and does upstream development in Debian.
[02:05] <Pendulum> Mackenzie Morgan is a senior at GWU.  She is a MOTU and a Kubuntu enthusiast.  She is the author of Gally, an open source software that teaches vocabulary and grammar for sign languages.  She's pretty much all over ubuntu IRC channels teaching others how to be just as awesome.
[02:05] <pleia2> Hi everyone! Welcome to the session on Desktop Environments.
[02:05] <pleia2> To start out, I will quickly explain what a Desktop Environment is.
[02:05] <pleia2> A Desktop Environment is the full interface, including Window Manager, panels, menus, engines, tools and applications which are put or built to work together.
[02:06] <pleia2> By default, when you install Ubuntu you will get "Gnome" as your Desktop Environment. Other options for a Desktop Environment include KDE and XFCE.
[02:06] <pleia2> I will note, as it can be confusing, but a "Window Manager" is not a "Desktop Environment", it's only a part of it. At the core, a Window Manager simply handles the behavior of the windows on your screen.
[02:07] <pleia2> As far as Window Managers go, Gnome uses Metacity, KDE uses KWin, and XFCE uses XFwm. A common example of when you may replace a Window Manager is when you use Compiz Fusion, the window manager which gives you "The Cube" and other effects in the Gnome or KDE Desktop Environments.
[02:08] <pleia2> So, why would you want to switch from Gnome, the default in Ubuntu, to a different Desktop Environment?
[02:08] <maco> You can replace your default DE's window manager too! (I do)
[02:08] <pleia2> One popular reason is simply preference. Give another one a try! You may like you find out how customizable the panels are in XFCE, or the flashy widgets are in KDE.
[02:08] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Will LXDE/Lubuntu get covered at all in this session?  I guess not or not as such, since its not properly offical just yet, but will be starting with 10.10 it seems.  Also for people that don't know LXDE/Lubuntu is in the 9.10 and 10.04 repos.
[02:09] <pleia2> sebsebseb: Not really, we're only really focusing on the 3 main official ones here
[02:09] <pleia2> Another is speed/performance. Some let you slim down your environment by loading up fewer things by default, some are faster (usually by sacrificing eye candy), some work with lighter window managers which may run better on your system.
[02:10] <maco> The default Ubuntu desktop is what you get with an Ubuntu CD
[02:11] <maco> If you're running one of the other desktops right now, you can also get it by installing the "ubuntu-desktop" package using apt-get or aptitude
[02:11] <maco> Or using KPackageKit on Kubuntu or Synaptic on Xubuntu
[02:12] <maco> Hmm I should back up. The three main versions of Ubuntu, since sebsebseb mentioned Lubuntu already... are Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu
[02:12] <maco> Ubuntu, as Lyz said, uses GNOME.  Kubuntu uses KDE, and Xubuntu uses Xfce
[02:13] <maco> You can install any of them from a CD specifically containing that version, or you can install another of them right along with your current version by simply installing the *-desktop metapackage
[02:13] <maco> It'll pull in everything that's normally included on the CD for that version and add an entry to the options on your login screen so you can pick between them
[02:13] <maco> Metapackages are just dummy packages that pull in lots of others as dependencies so you can get full sets
[02:14] <maco> It won't replace the version you have automatically though, just add on
[02:14] <maco> This means you end up with quite a few more applications installed since Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu each have their own set of default applications
[02:15] <maco> You'll also notice that each has its own default theme and wallpaper and all that goodness.  Ubuntu's historically been the brown one, but now it's eggplant/aubergine/purple.  Kubuntu's the blue one. And Xubuntu's that funny colour that comes between blue and grey
[02:17] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Its true isn't it that put simply,  a window manager is only a graphical user interface for an operating system, where as a desktop environment is the OS GUI, but also a group of apps?
[02:17] <pleia2> Pretty much, window manager is only a part of the graphical interface, primarily controling the actual windows
[02:17] <maco> It's possible to run with just a window manager (such as Fluxbox or Enlightenment) and no desktop environment.  The window manager just makes sure the windows get drawn.
[02:17] <maco> Then you get to mix 'n match your applications
[02:20] <pleia2> < suprengr> QUESTIOM: tried KDE desktop within Ubuntu for one session... removed it.  Nowstuck with Firefox using a KDE font for disolay [menus and pafe text].  Everthing under PureGnome' has failed, [ditto re-install of Ubuntu-desktop package],, has it substituted a font somewhere I wonder?
[02:20] <maco> That could be a problem with ~/.fontconfig I suppose. Firefox has its own font settings as well though, in Edit -> Preferences
[02:21] <pleia2> Ok, we'll move on, now, each of these comes with different software and looks different, we'll now explain a bit about them and how they differ
[02:24] <maco> OK so the default Ubuntu desktop includes 2 panels, the top one with 3 menus, and the bottom holding your windows.  It's also been a testing ground for the new notification system in Ubuntu, notify-osd
[02:25] <maco> The introduction of the new notification system was an interesting moment for GNOME and KDE to work together.  KDE gained support for the way of producing notifications GNOME uses, and Ubuntu gained support for KDE's tray system.  What does this mean for you? It means that when you use some KDE apps in Ubuntu and some GNOME ones in Kubuntu, they blend in with their surroundings much better!
[02:26] <maco> In Ubuntu, the GNOME web browser, Epiphany, is replaced with the cross-platform favourite, Firefox
[02:27] <maco> The set of default apps has been changing a lot in recent years though.  For example, there was a move from Pidgin to the GNOME Empathy.  It was a rough transition, but things mostly work now (barring Empathy's poor IRC support).  F-Spot is there to manage your photos but will be replaced in 10.10 with Shotwell.
[02:29] <ClassBot> Lrpbpb asked: will pitivi also be replaced, (I'm pretty sure there is a video editor from the same developer of shotwell)
[02:29] <maco> I haven't heard anything about that.  Pitivi was just recently added, replacing photo editor the GIMP
[02:30] <ClassBot> Lrpbpb asked: how about banshee replacing rhythmbox?
[02:31] <maco> That's been discussed at a few Ubuntu Developer Summits.  It was marked for "maybe" in 9.10, but the custom widgets it uses were not able to work properly with the Accessibility tools that visually impaired users need.
[02:31] <maco> I missed the last UDS, though, so best I could do right now is go read the specs and tell you what they say, but that'd take time away from this
[02:32] <maco> So, moving on to Kubuntu, which is what I use...
[02:32] <maco> Kubuntu is the pretty one with lots of nifty widgets to do all sorts of handy things.  Or sometimes just silly things, like the bouncing red ball widget.  It bounces around your desktop
[02:33] <maco> As I said before, it uses KDE, and so you can see the Plasma Desktop it uses here:  http://kde.org/workspaces/plasmadesktop/
[02:33] <maco> The panel, everything on the panel, and little widgets on the desktop are all part of Plasma
[02:34] <maco> Starting in 10.10, Kubuntu will include Plasma Netbook as well, and let you switch between them in the System Settings, which is like KDE's version of Control Panel
[02:34] <maco> You can see Plasma Netbook here:  http://kde.org/workspaces/plasmanetbook/
[02:35] <maco> Kubuntu includes the famous Amarok music player, probably the most popular KDE app among GNOME users
[02:36] <maco> One of the goals of the Kubuntu team is to stay as close as reasonably possible to upstream KDE as possible, so KDE.org screenshots are actually accurate for us ;-)
[02:36] <maco> Some people think Kubuntu should have its own separate branded artwork, but the Kubuntu team has voted repeatedly that upstream provides such nice stuff, there's no reason to replace it
[02:37] <maco> That said, Kubuntu does include OpenOffice.org instead of KOffice, but it doesn't include Firefox
[02:38] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What is the big deal about Amarok,  I have never understood all the hype and I have used Desktop GNU/Linux since 2004 (Ubuntu wasn't an option when I had to pick my first distro, but it was when it was time for me to change distro)
[02:38] <maco> In 10.10, Rekonq will be the default browser, since it's a KDE-based browser that has the advanced WebKit rendering engine, meaning you get the same beautiful web experience as a Safari or Chrome user
[02:40] <maco> Rhythmbox used to be not as nice as it is now
[02:40] <maco> Amarok was more fully-featured, so it became pretty popular
[02:41] <maco> I didn't like Amarok before, because I was a GNOME user and didn't want to mix in KDE apps, and I didn't like the vertical tabs.  The new version, though, is really quite nice.  It's scriptable, and you can add in widgets right into the UI to have extra functionality, such as displaying lyrics or Wikipedia pages for the artists
[02:42] <maco> This sounds bad, but if you've seen Windows 7, KDE 4 will look familiar.
[02:43] <maco> I must add the caveat that, as someone forced to use Win7 at work, KDE4 works better
[02:43] <maco> KDE, since version 3, has been able to do slideshow wallpapers, and in KDE4 there are window previews for the taskbar.
[02:44] <maco> Oh, and on Kubuntu, you don't need Compiz to get eyecandy.  KWin has it built in.
[02:45] <maco> Other default apps in Kubuntu include KMail, KAddressBook, and KOrganizer, which you can view in one window as Kontact or use separately.  I like that they can be used separately.  Evolution in Ubuntu requires that you configure an email address to use the calendar, which I find silly.  And then there's Kopete for IM and Quassel for IRC.
[02:46] <pleia2> so, Xfce!
[02:46] <pleia2> Some examples of how Xubuntu with Xfce differs from Ubuntu: it doesn't come with Open Office, instead it comes with lighter-weight "abiword" for word processing and "gnumeric" for spreadsheets.
[02:46] <pleia2> It also still ships The Gimp by default for image editing, XChat for IRC and the window controls are still on the right ;)
[02:47] <pleia2> The default looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/xubuntu04.png
[02:47] <pleia2> As mentioned above, Xubuntu uses the XFwm by default for the window manager. It uses Thunar for a basic file manager, as sorta seen here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/xubuntu06.png
[02:48] <pleia2> (it's pretty basic though)
[02:48] <pleia2> The Xfce panels have their own items you can add, but you can also use gnome panel items.
[02:49] <pleia2> You may have already started poking around the directory, but for some more screenshots of the installation and default configuration of Xubuntu you can see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/
[02:50] <pleia2> Most of what you'll find app-wise is that Xubuntu takes apps from other DEs, you can even run the gnome and kde services in the background so things launch more quickly even on Xfce
[02:50] <pleia2> For more, check out http://xubuntu.org/ and http://www.xfce.org/
[02:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[02:50] <ClassBot> Ray70 asked: I find KDE is just too configurable and in fact I spend so much time optimising the "nice" look, I am falling down on work I achieve faster in Gnome. Anyone else suffer KDEfussness ?
[02:51] <pleia2> That's pretty much it for the text of our session, so questions now are fine :)
[02:51] <maco> Back when I was a GNOME user, I used to look at settings menus in KDE, go "meep!" and want to hide from it.  KDE4 has vastly improved in this area, and the work by usability expert Celeste Lyn Paul on KDE is continuing that progress
[02:52] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Gnome 3's Gnome Shell isn't stable yet, and people are worried about it.  If Gnome Shell doesn't really work out and Gnome 2 dies,  since XFCE is more Gnome 2 like do you two think it will be likely to get much more popular?
[02:52]  * maco is not a psychic and does not own a TARDIS
[02:52] <pleia2> It's really hard to say, mostly these days Xubuntu gets more users because "someone told them it was more lightweight for their old computers"
[02:53] <pleia2> out of the box I can't confirm this is true, but it certainly can be slimmed down much easier than Gnome
[02:53] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Which desktop environment or window manager, do you two prefer, and why?
[02:53] <maco> I prefer KDE, but I use Xmonad, not KWin, as my window manager.
[02:53] <maco> And I think pleia2 made it pretty clear she prefers Xfce ;-)
[02:53] <pleia2> Xfce w/ the default XFwm for me, my desktop: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/xubuntu08.png (quite a bit different from the default!)
[02:54] <pleia2> I like it because it's superfast, really customizable, and I really don't need or care for bouncing ball widgets ;)
[02:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[02:55] <maco> Oh yeah the why... I prefer Kubntu because it doesn't force users to deal with things like GConf or text files to change a setting, and I prefer Xmonad because I like tiling window managers
[02:56] <pleia2> to be fair, I never really used Gnome or KDE, I started out with Enlightenment, went to Fluxbox and stopped at Xfce about 6 years ago
[02:57] <maco> Meanwhile I didn't like Enlightenment 17 for making using textfiles to configure stuff seemingly impossible (while also not yet having working GUIs for that stuff)
[02:57] <maco> I like that I can use a text file OR a GUI, depending on what's broken at the time ;-)
[02:57] <maco> Any more questions?
[02:58] <maco> I guess I want to point out, since pleia2 mentioned Xubuntu's file manager, that Dolphin in Kubuntu is pretty sweet. Split panes and all!
[02:58]  * pleia2 admits to using Dolphin
[02:59] <pleia2> well, thanks for coming everyone :)
[02:59] <ClassBot> Ray70 asked: Are we een going to see a "GnoDE" desktop best of all worlds :) great session guys thank you
[03:00] <pleia2> Ray70: hahaha, what happens when you lock a gnome, kde and xfce devs in a room together...
[03:00] <pleia2> Ok everyone, we're on to our last session of this Ubuntu User Days!
[03:01] <pleia2> Reminder: We have a poll about the day to collect feedback, so please fill it out after the day when you have a chance so we know how to make things better :) http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ697T7
[03:01] <pleia2> Now we have cyphermox joining us to wrap up the day with a class on selecting hardware that will work with Ubuntu
[03:01] <pleia2> Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre is a member of the Quebec LoCo and working at Canonical as Hardware Certification engineer. When not fighting bugs, he's working on NetworkManager.
[03:01] <pleia2> oh dear!
[03:01] <pleia2> We'll wait for him to come back :)
[03:04] <pleia2> cyphermox_: welcome back, take it away :)
[03:04] <cyphermox_> Hi! :) Apparently I should have listened to this sessions better ;)
[03:05] <cyphermox_> So, first, I don't have a whole lot of material, so please don't hesitate to ask questions... and since this is my first session, please be patient and tell me if I'm too fast
[03:06] <cyphermox_> So... you want to buy a new computer that works with Ubuntu?
[03:06] <cyphermox_> Things are good, there's lots of systems that support Ubuntu real well... but there is alas quite a few that don't... and you can get into pretty terrible situations
[03:07] <cyphermox_> Some of the things you can see if you're out of luck: failure to boot, blank screen (I really don't like those), no Wifi, no Ethernet... etc.
[03:08] <cyphermox_> Some of the things you can get if you're lucky: ponies!
[03:08] <cyphermox_> So, how can you make sure the new system you're looking at will work well?
[03:08] <cyphermox_> The quick answer: try it!
[03:09] <cyphermox_> Most places are reasonably open about testing out a live CD on their demo systems (in fact, that is how I chose my work laptop, at Staples, nothing less!)
[03:10] <cyphermox_> Some will just look at you like an alien though, and just won't let you approach the nice toys
[03:10] <ClassBot> IdleOne asked: Where can I buy a USB coffee brewer?
[03:10] <cyphermox_> IdleOne: ThinkGeek!
[03:11] <cyphermox_> :)
[03:12] <cyphermox_> Most stores have very decent warranty provisions that let you try out a system for a period of time (often two weeks, sometimes up to a month). Just be sure that you make the recovery CDs if they didn't come with the box... it's long, it's painful, but it's worth it, as most will expect to see the system back in pristine shape... as pristine as it can be with a non-free OS :)
[03:12] <ClassBot> waltercool asked: How and where can i check the ubuntu support of my "future" hardware?
[03:14] <cyphermox_> waltercool: I'm getting to that shortly, but in short: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification
[03:14] <cyphermox_> this is where all the stuff that I and others in the Certification team tests, and gets the Big Red Stamp Of Approval (tm) :)
[03:15] <cyphermox_> so, what about if you're not buying from a brick-and-mortar store?
[03:16] <cyphermox_> Know that then, it gets a little more complicated, since you pretty much have to deal with the warranties for sure if you want to *try* it, or you're already sure that the system you're choosing works
[03:16] <cyphermox_> Some very good places to order a machine online:
[03:16] <cyphermox_> http://www.zareason.com
[03:16] <cyphermox_> they even sell cute Ubuntu stickers! :)
[03:17] <cyphermox_> http://www.system76.com -- also has a very decent selection
[03:17] <cyphermox_> maco mentions one advantage of ZaReason is that they also provide systems with Kubuntu and Xubuntu, while System76 only does Ubuntu
[03:18] <cyphermox_> personally, I'm just a big fan of touching a computer before I buy it :)
[03:18] <ClassBot> Lrpbpb asked: Is there anyway to buy a laptop with ubuntu preinstalled (without windows, just ubuntu)?
[03:18] <cyphermox_> Another nice one is Lenovo. Many of their systems work admirably well, but there are still a few issues here and there
[03:19] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: yes! that's precisely what ZaReason and System76 offer, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear before
[03:20] <cyphermox_> additionally, Dell also does this pretty well, altough lately, IIRC, there were only very few systems listed as preloaded with Ubuntu
[03:21] <cyphermox_> My favortie has got to be Dell, but again it's a matter of personal preference. Again, most of their systems will work *really* well with Ubuntu, minus a few exceptions.
[03:21] <cyphermox_> The thing is, how can you be sure something you're looking at on the web will work? Or at least, get to a reasonable level of certainty?
[03:22] <cyphermox_> Truth is, there's a couple of tricks.
[03:23] <cyphermox_> One thing to go by is Intel. They're components are very well supported (except maybe for the infamous Poulsbo bridge, but even that is somewhat changing), and perform great, too
[03:23] <cyphermox_> Intel wireless, Intel ethernet adapters, Intel anything you want will get you pretty far
[03:24] <cyphermox_> The exception to this is probably just the processor, where it really matters much less
[03:24] <cyphermox_> going back to Dell: the page to get to much of the Ubuntu compatible hardware on their site is here: www.dell.com/ubuntu  (thanks sebsebseb!)
[03:26] <cyphermox_> Then, you'll probably want to stick with Nvidia more than ATI for the graphics card, as they *tend* to get better support, especially for the proprietary drivers
[03:26] <cyphermox_> of course, it also varies as lot, so you'll have to try it, mostly
[03:27] <cyphermox_> In the case of wireless, my personal preference is to stay *FAR* away from Broadcom.... there's a number of issues at the moment, including now showing the signal strength well (at least in NetworkManager), and maybe instability
[03:28] <cyphermox_> they're not evil, because they provide drivers for their hardware, but it could use a lot of improvement.
[03:28] <ClassBot> Lrpbpb asked: on graphics cards, how well supported are integrated intel cards?
[03:29] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: quite well! I like them a lot. There are exceptions there too, and open bugs about the issues, but it's being actively worked on, and if I'm not mistaken there is already a patch available
[03:30] <cyphermox_> intel integrated cards are, as far as I am aware, the place where the most activity happens in terms of supporting new stuff, and where the response time for fixing bugs is the smallest
[03:31] <cyphermox_> Which brings me to talk about bugs.
[03:32] <cyphermox_> One nice way to get all the more certain that your system is going to work well with Ubuntu is to look at bugs about the model of the system you're planning to buy
[03:32] <cyphermox_> In some bugs, the title will include the model, so that's a good indication that something isn't quite right, especially if the report is recent
[03:33] <cyphermox_> Reviews will usually give you a good idea of the support as well; especially if it's a report from Phoronics :)
[03:34] <cyphermox_> And if you buy a system and find that stuff doesn't work.... please! report a new bug about it. it's crucial for us to know about broken stuff so we can fix it :)
[03:36] <ClassBot> Lrpbpb asked: One would assume that linux/ubuntu laptops qould be much cheaper than windows laptops (because you aren't paying for the OS). However, these laptops seem to be overpriced (as in you can get a much better one TODAY for the same amount), why would that be?
[03:36] <cyphermox_> If you're getting a system from the lists on http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification, know that the fact that these systems are on the list means they are *certified* to work, which means you can call the excellent support people at Canonical to get help
[03:36] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: give me a second to type my answer :)
[03:38] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: I think it has to do with demand. There isn't a high demand for systems with Ubuntu (or any linux) preinstalled, so my guess is that manufacturers and resellers are pre-installing systems by the batch, and changing that pre-installed costs a technician's time, hence why the lack of difference in price.
[03:39] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: if you saw the same model more expensive with Ubuntu than with another OS, I wouldn't know. I'd say you should probably head to a better store, or shop online elsewhere, as that place may be evil :)
[03:41] <cyphermox_> hmm.. questions?
[03:41] <cyphermox_> I seem to have covered much of what I had planned on
 cyphermox_: I'm not sure if you are from canonical, but does the company have any plans to begin selling ubuntu computers? Something as part of their attempt to bring ubuntu to more people?
[03:43] <cyphermox_> Lrpbpb: I am from Canonical, but I really don't know... sorry
[03:46] <cyphermox_> No more questions?
[03:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[03:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[04:00] <pleia2> Thanks cyphermox_, great session! :)
[04:00] <cyphermox_> thanks all :)
[04:00] <pleia2> woohoo, thanks everyone!
[04:01] <sebsebseb> That was a good user day! :)
[04:01] <pleia2> Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FJ697T7
[04:04] <pleia2> for those of you interested, Ubuntu Developer Week starts on Monday: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
[04:04] <pleia2> and Classroom has sessions throughout the month, not just at these events, check out the schedule here: http://is.gd/8rtIi
[17:01] <Omega> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays links to http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile but the page does not exist.
[20:17] <tpw_rules> hey
[20:17] <zkriesse> hello tpw_rules
[20:17] <tpw_rules> when's the next class start:?
[20:18] <zkriesse> The User Days are currently over tpw_rules
[20:18] <tpw_rules> oh
[20:18] <zkriesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
[20:18] <zkriesse> logs are on the above link
[20:19] <jcastro> tpw_rules: developerweek starts next week though!
[20:19] <tpw_rules> awesome
[20:26] <daemondog> don't suppose anyone has a klibido theme for the userlist thats more like mirc?