| IdleOne | grandma and phrea need to go | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Flannel | IdleOne: Instead of just mentioning it here, a better first-step is to try and steer the conversation/participants back on track | 00:04 |
| IdleOne | Flannel: with Phrea the first step has come and gone. | 00:04 |
| Flannel | Obviously he doesn't understand something. | 00:07 |
| Flannel | Howdy Phrea | 00:07 |
| Phrea | ...I was trying to explain something... | 00:07 |
| Phrea | keep it real plz | 00:08 |
| Flannel | Phrea: I know. This has nothing to do with what you said, but instead, I think you have some misunderstandings or misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. | 00:08 |
| Phrea | ...with a kban? | 00:08 |
| Phrea | I don't see how | 00:08 |
| Phrea | but I won't misbehave anymore | 00:08 |
| Flannel | Phrea: No, a forward to here, so that we can discuss things. | 00:08 |
| Phrea | o wait, I now see | 00:09 |
| IdleOne | Phrea: not the first time we see you say you won't misbehave | 00:09 |
| Flannel | Phrea: Since judging by your past few comments, it seems like you think this is a game: "See how much I can get away with, get kicked, try to see how much I can get away with next time" | 00:09 |
| Phrea | ok, discuss then | 00:09 |
| Phrea | I was just having some fun | 00:09 |
| Phrea | no bad intentions, just fun | 00:09 |
| Flannel | Phrea: There's nothing fun with being a disruption to the channel | 00:10 |
| Phrea | this is the 3rd time I've been banned, in 15 years :o | 00:10 |
| Phrea | Flannel: I did nothing really wrong, did I | 00:10 |
| Phrea | I was just joking, being offtopic | 00:10 |
| Flannel | Phrea: This is at least the third time I've spoken with you in the past few months. | 00:10 |
| Phrea | well, I am sorry, if it helps | 00:10 |
| Phrea | Flannel: actually, no | 00:11 |
| Phrea | this is the first time, in this context | 00:11 |
| Phrea | :) | 00:11 |
| Phrea | you must confuse me with somebody else | 00:11 |
| Flannel | Phrea: Which context is that? | 00:11 |
| Phrea | maybe refer to your logs | 00:11 |
| Phrea | to see if you took me apart like this, and talk to me | 00:11 |
| Phrea | I'll go get me a drink, it's hot ! :) | 00:12 |
| IdleOne | Phrea: every time you use language that you know is not acceptable we have to warn you about it, disrupting the channel. Your "occasional" use of bad language is to say the least annoying. In my opinion you should be banned from the channel. We have been more then patient with you. | 00:13 |
| Phrea | oh c'mon... | 00:13 |
| Phrea | well, you can ban me if you want tho | 00:14 |
| Phrea | I have no say in it | 00:14 |
| IdleOne | You actually have all the say. | 00:14 |
| IdleOne | With your actions | 00:14 |
| Phrea | but I'd like to see some logs maybe... | 00:14 |
| Phrea | because I onnly remember one warning | 00:14 |
| Phrea | when I used "stfu" | 00:14 |
| Phrea | and I admit that was wrong | 00:15 |
| Phrea | but, no other warnings come to mind | 00:15 |
| Phrea | this'll be my third ban | 00:16 |
| Flannel | Phrea: You've done many things that we've had to ask you to stop, and every time we ask you, it becomes an argument. This isn't just about language, it's about your behavior in general. | 00:16 |
| Phrea | when and how? | 00:16 |
| Phrea | I seem to be nice in general, if a bit flukey | 00:16 |
| Flannel | Phrea: How about the now-playing song thing? | 00:16 |
| IdleOne | this is not the first time you have been warned about bad language, your attitude towards the ops in -ot is disrespectful. You seem to think it is ok to skirt the rules. Like flannel said up there you appear to be testing the limits. | 00:16 |
| Phrea | IdleOne: to be honest, I don't know about about being disrespectful to ops, since ops aren't visible on that channel, and I have no idea who the ops are. | 00:17 |
| IdleOne | Phrea: exactly. So respect the rules. | 00:17 |
| Phrea | I do | 00:17 |
| IdleOne | it really isn't complicated, don't be a jerk. | 00:18 |
| Phrea | sometimes I go a bit wide, but I'm NEVER disrespectful | 00:18 |
| Phrea | ever | 00:18 |
| Phrea | I try not to be | 00:18 |
| Flannel | Phrea: Stop going "a bit wide" | 00:18 |
| IdleOne | not following the rules is disrespectful to all the users in that channel who do follow them, op or not | 00:18 |
| Phrea | man, I feel like a kindergarten kid being slapped on the hand.. | 00:18 |
| Phrea | I've been adminning, opering, opping, etc.,.. | 00:19 |
| Flannel | Phrea: You keep saying that, it's not relevant. | 00:19 |
| Phrea | I think it does, it says something about my experience over the years | 00:20 |
| Phrea | I now understand that the banhammer is as heavy on irc as it is on the forums | 00:21 |
| Phrea | I thought it was a bit more loose on irc | 00:21 |
| Phrea | apperantly not, and I will respect that | 00:21 |
| Phrea | nou, open my cage and let me go please | 00:21 |
| Flannel | Phrea: See, now, I was all ready to remove the forward because I felt like we were on the same page, and then you go and say that. | 00:22 |
| Phrea | about the cage? | 00:23 |
| Phrea | :o | 00:23 |
| Phrea | that was a figure of speech... | 00:23 |
| Phrea | not to be taken seriously... | 00:23 |
| IdleOne | Phrea: unfortunately you have a history of sarcastic comments and I see where Flannel is comming from | 00:24 |
| Flannel | Phrea: I've removed your forward, you're free to rejoin #ubuntu-offtopic. Please remember that having some 'fun' by being a nuisance isn't welcome | 00:24 |
| IdleOne | coming* | 00:24 |
| Phrea | how could I mean that cage literally? | 00:24 |
| Phrea | well, thanks for setting me straight, I will behave from now on | 00:26 |
| jacekowski | morning | 00:43 |
| jacekowski | i just got banned on #ubuntu-uk | 00:44 |
| Flannel | Howdy jacekowski | 00:44 |
| IdleOne | morning jacekowski | 00:44 |
| Flannel | jacekowski: The counterpart to this channel for LoCo teams is #ubuntu-irc | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | ok | 00:45 |
| Gary | /join #Ubuntu-irc | 02:39 |
| Gary | oops, maybe I should be in there :-) | 02:40 |
| IdleOne | Could we add a link in #u topic for the Ubuntu User Days sessions in -classroom http://is.gd/8rtIi ? | 03:16 |
| IdleOne | still 6 days left and would be awesome to get more users in there | 03:17 |
| Flannel | Sounds good, but what's the real wikipage? | 03:19 |
| IdleOne | I'll get it | 03:19 |
| Flannel | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 03:19 |
| Flannel | that one? | 03:19 |
| IdleOne | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 03:20 |
| IdleOne | that's the one | 03:20 |
| IdleOne | thanks Flannel | 03:20 |
| Flannel | There's still six days left? | 03:20 |
| IdleOne | I could of done it but didn't want to over step | 03:20 |
| IdleOne | I might be wrong about that | 03:21 |
| Flannel | IdleOne: Could *have* not could of :) | 03:21 |
| Flannel | and yeah, please check, since that wikipage says its one day only | 03:21 |
| IdleOne | Flannel: 1 day left actually | 03:21 |
| IdleOne | I was looking at the calendar and assumed | 03:21 |
| IdleOne | but still | 03:22 |
| Flannel | IdleOne: Interesting. According to that schedule, the last session is going on right now. | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | err | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | wow yeah | 03:22 |
| IdleOne | never mind me then | 03:22 |
| Flannel | Next week is Developer Week, I believe. | 03:23 |
| IdleOne | well a link for that would be good too | 03:23 |
| IdleOne | yeah I mixed user days with dev week | 03:23 |
| IdleOne | sorry | 03:23 |
| Flannel | I'm not so sure that a link to developer week would be good in #u, but next time a user days comes around, ping me about it the day beforehand or whatnot :) | 03:24 |
| Flannel | Since that'd be great to advertise in #u | 03:24 |
| IdleOne | will do. thanks for double checking me :) | 03:24 |
| Flannel | IdleOne: or anyone else, or just add it yourself | 03:27 |
| IdleOne | Flannel: I could of done that but aren't you glad I asked first :) | 03:36 |
| IdleOne | I know I am | 03:36 |
| ubottu | In #ubuntustudio, rebirth said: ubottu: this is ubuntu studio, just not with any of the software, that is different than vanilla ubuntu no? | 05:26 |
| Jordan_U | wildbat in #ubuntu seems to have a cat on his keyboard. | 05:38 |
| bazhang | need a +m in -ot | 06:00 |
| IdleOne | why? | 06:02 |
| mneptok | are there no -ot ops active in the channel? | 06:17 |
| bazhang | not presently. the insanity has passed though mneptok | 06:17 |
| mneptok | i try like Hell to avoid dealing with that channel, but ping me here if it needs my attention. | 06:19 |
| bazhang | okay thanks | 06:19 |
| IdleOne | i didn't see the hooker part :/ | 06:22 |
| IdleOne | new word to add to highlight list I suppose | 06:23 |
| bazhang | that was the last bit really | 06:23 |
| IdleOne | the bet thing is what started it huh | 06:25 |
| IdleOne | sorry if it did | 06:25 |
| IdleOne | bazhang: the bot and the user who somehow magically new the bot responded to !abuse joined at the same time | 06:39 |
| IdleOne | knew* | 06:39 |
| IdleOne | 15 second interval | 06:39 |
| bazhang | IdleOne, yep. and the bot quit as soon as we were on to it. not removed afaict | 06:39 |
| IdleOne | well he seems like a possible troll | 06:40 |
| IdleOne | will probably work his way to a ban soon enough | 06:40 |
| bazhang | possible troll is a pretty low bar in that channel | 06:40 |
| IdleOne | heh | 06:41 |
| IdleOne | you really have hate for that channel | 06:41 |
| mneptok | it's well deserved | 06:41 |
| bazhang | not really. just gets annoying after awhile | 06:41 |
| IdleOne | agreed | 06:41 |
| bazhang | it's not like everyone in there is pre-teen or something | 06:42 |
| IdleOne | then again I am part of the annoyances | 06:42 |
| IdleOne | sometimes | 06:42 |
| maco | someone in there told me once "if i was an op in there, i'd ban me" | 06:42 |
| bazhang | maco, ha | 06:42 |
| bazhang | IdleOne, not that I can see. | 06:42 |
| bazhang | trying to get them to 'play nice' is like herding cats | 06:43 |
| IdleOne | bazhang: thanks. I try not to be. | 06:43 |
| IdleOne | haha herding cats, you have to be insane to try that...wait. | 06:43 |
| maco | i suspect if IdleOne, rww, and i all had ops in there, 1/3 - 1/2 of the channel regulars would go away | 06:44 |
| IdleOne | the first day | 06:44 |
| maco | pretty much | 06:44 |
| IdleOne | and I'll hack chanserv so the bans can never be removed | 06:44 |
| IdleOne | :) | 06:44 |
| IdleOne | First time I ever got ops was on EFnet in a channel that I had been a regular in for a year or so. That day 20 or so people got banned. with my first op | 06:46 |
| bazhang | the first millisecond | 06:46 |
| IdleOne | not that fast but people freaked out | 06:46 |
| IdleOne | they calmed down and the channel started to grow. | 06:47 |
| IdleOne | I am not suggesting we clean out -ot but I really do believe there is a serious click mentality in there | 06:47 |
| IdleOne | clique* | 06:47 |
| maco | clique | 06:47 |
| IdleOne | yeah yeah I knew you were coming with that :) | 06:48 |
| maco | is pr0nguy an ok nick for #ubuntu ? | 06:54 |
| bazhang | questionable, but clearly offtopic question | 06:54 |
| IdleOne | we tolerate fcuk | 06:56 |
| IdleOne | sort of | 06:56 |
| IdleOne | but never saw that nick say a word | 06:56 |
| maco | isnt fcuk the name of a clothing store? | 06:56 |
| IdleOne | could be | 06:56 |
| bazhang | yep | 06:56 |
| mneptok | yes, and the NEC Docomo Pro-N is a handheld computer. | 06:56 |
| maco | yes it is | 06:57 |
| maco | French Connection UK | 06:57 |
| bazhang | hehe | 06:57 |
| maco | i wonder if whoever named that is aware those are two different countries | 06:57 |
| mneptok | well, if they were one country, the "Connection" bit wouldn't have to be specified. | 06:58 |
| maco | maybe theyre canadian | 06:58 |
| bazhang | should #ubuntu-locoteams where we refer s4ry to? | 06:58 |
| bazhang | err be | 06:58 |
| IdleOne | sounds right | 07:00 |
| IdleOne | maybe #ubuntu-irc but -locoteams should be able to help him | 07:01 |
| Avasz | why am i being forwarded to this channel? | 07:26 |
| Avasz | banned? eh.. who and why? | 07:26 |
| mneptok | Avasz: it's because of your /quit message | 07:28 |
| Avasz | /quit message? letme check. | 07:28 |
| Avasz | oh... i had put that some times ago... had forgotten about that.. | 07:29 |
| mneptok | destroying others' machines is most certainly against the Code Of Conduct | 07:31 |
| Avasz | ok..have changed it. | 07:33 |
| ubottu | In ubottu, rww said: !badident =~ s/alot/a lot/ | 08:02 |
| jussi | !badident | 08:15 |
| ubottu | Unfortunately, your irc client has been configured with an ident containing an objectional word. We don't allow such objectional idents into our main channels as it offends alot of people. Your ident is not your nickname. Once you've changed your ident, please disconnect from freenode and reconnect. You will be automatically let back into the channel you tried to join. | 08:15 |
| jussi | !badident =~ s/alot/a lot/ | 08:16 |
| ubottu | I'll remember that jussi | 08:16 |
| jussi | !badident | 08:16 |
| ubottu | Unfortunately, your irc client has been configured with an ident containing an objectional word. We don't allow such objectional idents into our main channels as it offends a lot of people. Your ident is not your nickname. Once you've changed your ident, please disconnect from freenode and reconnect. You will be automatically let back into the channel you tried to join. | 08:16 |
| jussi | !badident > rww | 08:16 |
| mneptok | !badident =~ s/objectional/objectionable/ | 08:26 |
| ubottu | I'll remember that mneptok | 08:26 |
| mneptok | !badident | 08:26 |
| ubottu | Unfortunately, your irc client has been configured with an ident containing an objectionable word. We don't allow such objectional idents into our main channels as it offends a lot of people. Your ident is not your nickname. Once you've changed your ident, please disconnect from freenode and reconnect. You will be automatically let back into the channel you tried to join. | 08:26 |
| mneptok | bah | 08:27 |
| mneptok | !badident =~ s/objectional/objectionable/ | 08:27 |
| * mneptok cattle prods ubottu | 08:27 | |
| Flannel | !badident | 08:28 |
| ubottu | Unfortunately, your irc client has been configured with an ident containing an objectionable word. We don't allow such objectionable idents into our main channels as it offends a lot of people. Your ident is not your nickname. Once you've changed your ident, please disconnect from freenode and reconnect. You will be automatically let back into the channel you tried to join. | 08:28 |
| Flannel | She got it, but won't say anything if it's a repeat command (will still do it though) | 08:29 |
| * jussi activates a return zap to mneptok | 08:29 | |
| mneptok | jussi: just for that, *you* can take over op duties in -offtopic | 08:29 |
| jussi | mneptok: nou | 08:29 |
| jussi | :P | 08:29 |
| mneptok | that channel is a land of wind and ghosts | 08:31 |
| knome | land of... *wind* ? | 09:13 |
| elky | Hot air. | 09:16 |
| elky | Lots of it. | 09:16 |
| knome | eww... smelly as well? | 09:16 |
| elky | Escaping from various orifices. | 09:16 |
| elky | vacation calendar? what the zombie jeep bus heck? | 10:25 |
| elky | This team has gone to the spit buckets, for real. | 10:26 |
| knome | ? :P | 10:27 |
| elky | The IRCC has decided they can dictate to us when we're allowed to have spare time to volunteer. | 10:28 |
| elky | That's not how volunteering works. Never has been. Sure as water is wet never will be. | 10:29 |
| * jussi hugs elky. theres no dictating. | 10:30 | |
| elky | Sure there is. | 10:30 |
| jussi | its a way for ops to write down when they are going to take a break, if at all. | 10:30 |
| elky | If you're calendaring it, it's nothing but. | 10:30 |
| jussi | elky: _we_ are writing it down, the ops are. we are just providing a medium. | 10:31 |
| Mamarok | jussi: I certainly can't predict when I am around, my schedule is very irregular | 10:31 |
| elky | If you're documenting it, you're going to use it to hold over people you disagree with, stating they haven't taken their holiday time and what are they going to do about it. And no, they cant take it in a payout. | 10:31 |
| elky | Don't freaking document my life for me. | 10:31 |
| * Mamarok is not convinced that this would really help | 10:31 | |
| Mamarok | I am around when I am around, but impossible to tell when most of the time | 10:32 |
| elky | I'm convinced it's going to stop me wanting to be anywhere near this team. It's bad enough that I get harrassed about *gasp* having private channels that are not ubuntu related. | 10:32 |
| elky | I suppose in this vacation time I'm supposed to sit in a bare room with no forms of stimulation? | 10:32 |
| jussi | elky: do you ever take a holiday? go to bali or something? | 10:32 |
| topyli | Mamarok: that's okay, but if someone is going away for a long time, isn't it nice to know there'll be a gap in the ops team in a certain timezone that we should be aware of? | 10:33 |
| elky | jussi, I think we're in different socioeconomic classes if you're even asking that question. | 10:33 |
| Mamarok | topyli: so actually you want an away log? | 10:33 |
| jussi | elky: fine, go to the blue mountains or so? | 10:33 |
| Mamarok | we have always done so until now AFAICT, when somebody is away for a longer periond he/she tells here, usually | 10:34 |
| jussi | mneptok: and this is a simple way of getting that out of irc and somewhere referenceable | 10:34 |
| jussi | Mamarok: ^^ | 10:34 |
| elky | jussi, well considering i've just had to change jobs and have no holiday accrued, and was not able to take holiday at previous job because there was nobody to cover for me. No. | 10:34 |
| Mamarok | jussi: going to Bali is not less expensive when in the South Pacific | 10:34 |
| jussi | oh stop finding stupid little things, the point was do you ever go away from your home. | 10:35 |
| topyli | Mamarok: so it's my job to keep up with people's comings and goings? why can't they help me? | 10:35 |
| elky | topyli, a calendar is taking it way too far. It's micromanaging people's spare time. That is *scary* | 10:35 |
| elky | Especially when it gets teamed with "Decided to amend the Operator Guidelines to encourage operators to take sufficient time off regularly." | 10:36 |
| Mamarok | topyli: hm, having an away log is OK, but asking us to schedule long in advance is pretty much impossible to handle | 10:36 |
| topyli | looks like you won't be using it. can i still create it? | 10:36 |
| Mamarok | I usually can only tell from one week to another | 10:36 |
| topyli | Mamarok: nobody's interested if you're out for a night or a weekend, it's for extended absenses from the team | 10:38 |
| Mamarok | topyli: tell that to my body, usually you don't predict your next cancer | 10:39 |
| elky | So they know when to bully you to take time off. | 10:39 |
| elky | Sorry, did I say bully? I totally meant "encourage". | 10:39 |
| jussi | The people who come in here can get pretty taxing at times. its a good idea to say see ya, Im just going to hang out and not worry about ops calls and dealing with troublemakers - for a time. | 10:39 |
| Mamarok | topyli: also my work schedule is that of a freelancer, so I can't schedul my holidays | 10:39 |
| elky | Stop trying to run this like a corporate junket and I'll start being interested again. | 10:39 |
| topyli | ok elky, since you're superhuman and obviously calm at all times, you're probably an exception. i know i get tired sometimes | 10:42 |
| elky | topyli, i'm not saying i'm superhuman and calm at all times. I'm saying that I don't want to be documented and coerced when it happens. | 10:42 |
| Mamarok | topyli: well, I don't get it, having us entering scheduls of presence would then be sued to tell us when we are around too long and send us off to get a break? That sounds strange | 10:43 |
| elky | And that's exactly the framework you're setting down right now. And that *scares* me | 10:43 |
| Mamarok | one can see in the behavior if somebody needs a break, and not everybody has the same tolerance | 10:43 |
| topyli | of course | 10:43 |
| Mamarok | some can cope for years, others only a few months | 10:43 |
| jussi | elky: we already have people come in here and "write down" that they are going away. is there an issue with transferring that to a calendar format? | 10:43 |
| Mamarok | so if tat schedule is used to tell us when to get a break I don't sign, sorry | 10:44 |
| Mamarok | I know myself when I need a break so far | 10:44 |
| Mamarok | and the day I don't get aware you can still tell me, no? No need for a schedule for that | 10:44 |
| jussi | the writing down is up to the op. we are just documenting when people are away | 10:45 |
| elky | jussi, yes, because this community has got to the creepy point of demanding reports and scheduling people's lives for them. It's not an atmosphere I am comfortable in. | 10:45 |
| Mamarok | if it is an away log to know if there are enough ops around it's OK, but not if it is to monitor our time schedule, that is none of your business | 10:45 |
| topyli | Mamarok: you're encouraged to take a break exactly when you feel you need it, and not stay on while tired. nobody's going to tell you when you're supposed to | 10:45 |
| Mamarok | there is already enough surveilliance in my life | 10:45 |
| topyli | perhaps if someone clearly sees you need a break, is it a good thing or a bad thing if they tell you what they think? | 10:46 |
| Mamarok | topyli: no, but that has nothing to do with my time spent online, my tolerance varies, so a schedule monitoring my volunteer time is by no means a way to tell if Ineed a break | 10:47 |
| elky | topyli, what stresses me out more than trolls is having to deal with this kind of crap from the IRCC. | 10:47 |
| elky | The IRCC and CC have caused me way more stress than any petty troll has. | 10:47 |
| Mamarok | topyli: it is OK to tell an op to calm down and maybe consider a break when it's obvious from the behavior, but it can't be schedueld, as the tolerance varies | 10:48 |
| elky | Mamarok, what I'm scared of is them going "hmm, you're worked up, and i can see by this calendar you haven't taken a break since $blah. I think you should just not come in on monday" | 10:49 |
| Mamarok | trying to schedule and control everything is not the way to go, you are adding more and more bureaucraty an end up loosing the real focus | 10:49 |
| jussi | I think you guys are missing the point. this isnt about "scheduling", its about communicating. "Im taking a break for the next 2 weeks". so then we can deal with it, por perhaps have more people about etc. | 10:49 |
| topyli | Mamarok: it's not the way to go, and it's not the way this is going | 10:49 |
| Mamarok | so if they want me to wirk as an op liek in a company, then hire me :) | 10:50 |
| Mamarok | topyli: well, in the last few months that is the impression I get, everything is getting monitored in the Ubuntu community, LoCo Teams efficiency are measured by the amount of reports they send in, now we have to schedule our presence in IRC, it is getting really scary | 10:51 |
| topyli | you're ranting about a non-existing policy, so there really is nothing i can say | 10:51 |
| Mamarok | if you want a corporate organisation, hire the people and then you can tell them their work schedule, but we are colunteers | 10:51 |
| Mamarok | s/c/v/ | 10:51 |
| elky | topyli, no, i'm ranting at the words you've sent to a mailing list. That mail very much exists. | 10:52 |
| Mamarok | topyli: it starts with scheduling, evaluating, documenting every step, how is that not scary? | 10:52 |
| jussi | Mamarok: no! you dont have to schedule your presence in IRC. we are just asking that you tell us when you are taking a break from op duities, not irc presence. | 10:52 |
| elky | jussi, so you can "encourage" us when we don't. That's what's scary | 10:52 |
| Mamarok | jussi: that's OK, but as I said, I will tell you a week before, that is pretty much enough, it works that way in KDE quite well, so it should also be entirely sufficient for you folks | 10:53 |
| jussi | this isnt about "Im getting off irc" its about "im taking a break from dealing with trolls and irc issues" | 10:53 |
| topyli | elky: you're ranting because somebody wants to micromanage you and put in a surveillance system. however, nobody has suggested anything like that | 10:53 |
| elky | topyli, your mail suggests it. | 10:53 |
| jussi | Mamarok: which is fine. we just want to know when youll be gone! | 10:53 |
| Mamarok | jussi: haven't I alwasy told you so far? | 10:54 |
| Mamarok | always | 10:54 |
| * Mamarok has a bad typing day | 10:54 | |
| jussi | Mamarok: so all we are doing is putting that to a calendar... | 10:54 |
| topyli | elky: please reply to it on the ML, so we can eventually word it so that you're happy | 10:54 |
| Mamarok | jussi: well, that's what is the scary part, having to write down in a public place when an op is taking a break is documenting again other peoples schedule. and it ends up in surveilliance and monitoring, trust me, I have seen that happen over and over | 10:55 |
| jussi | Mamarok: but you already write it down in a public place... | 10:56 |
| Mamarok | yep, and that is enought, no need to add another place to that | 10:56 |
| Mamarok | the channel log is enough | 10:56 |
| topyli | Mamarok: i think we'll rather have a shared calendar that the ops team has access to, not public to the internet facebook-style | 10:56 |
| elky | jussi, at least it's obscured a bit by the rest of the cruft in the logs | 10:56 |
| jussi | Im out. got other things to do right now. lateers | 10:56 |
| Mamarok | what I don't get: it is obvious who is available by the presence/away/absence of the ops here or in the other channels, why is that not enough? | 10:59 |
| bazhang | I'd suggest that the point of concern is more the 'you need a break' from others. documenting when someone will be away, while not personally my own concern, is certainly a valid issue. I would also suggest that people are mature enough to know when they need a break. the mailing list item perhaps could be better worded, but my own reaction was to the logs of the meeting itself | 10:59 |
| Mamarok | bazhang: I don't see why we need to add our schedul in a calendar anyway, if I am not around I am either offline or /away | 11:00 |
| bazhang | that is entirely my own view, and I in no way wish to downplay the valid concerns of others. | 11:00 |
| bazhang | Mamarok, I certainly respect that concern. | 11:00 |
| bazhang | just saying what I thought was less than well thought out (ie the 'time out for you') aspect of it. | 11:01 |
| Mamarok | I know myself when to take a break, and if not I hope my op colleagues are kind enough to tell me, the calendar is really an organisational tool that has no other purpose than monitoring people's presence | 11:01 |
| Mamarok | and I don't want to be monitored even more than I already am | 11:01 |
| bazhang | Mamarok, I can see how you would feel that way, with the intrusion of facebook etc | 11:02 |
| Mamarok | bazhang: well, the main point is also that I don't see the necessity to do so, I can live with a shcdule when being a hired employee or paid freelancer, but I do this in my spare time, so that doesn't have to be in yet another schedule | 11:03 |
| Mamarok | my life doesn't have to be documented for every second, seriously | 11:03 |
| nalioth | i don't see any reason for it, either. we're volunteers - not employees. | 11:04 |
| bazhang | Mamarok, I understand that point completely; while I don't personally share it, I can see your concern quite legitimately | 11:04 |
| Mamarok | nalioth: exactly my point, it's turning into corporate bureaucracy | 11:05 |
| Mamarok | the tendency to monitor everything the colunteers do in Ubuntu is getting really scary | 11:06 |
| nalioth | i agree, Mamarok | 11:06 |
| bazhang | hehe corporate volunteers colunteers | 11:07 |
| topyli | there won't be any schedule, no neet to protest against one :) | 11:07 |
| topyli | need even | 11:07 |
| Mamarok | evaluation volunteer work on a corporate level, what they do with the LoCo Teams is already becoming absurd, they should be glad they actually have loco teams, no need to monitor every one of our steps | 11:07 |
| bazhang | not protesting topyli just voicing views | 11:07 |
| bazhang | protest would indicate some kind of power structure, which does not exist in a volunteer environment | 11:08 |
| topyli | :) | 11:08 |
| * Mamarok is quite angry about what happens currently with loco teams because some teams don't send monthly reports. | 11:09 | |
| Mamarok | I never sent a monthly report because I simply don't have time to do so, if they want to know what our team does, red the wiki and mailing list | 11:09 |
| guntbert | Hi, several hours ago I suggested a small change to the floodbots' message in #ubuntu-proxy-users - did anyone see that? | 11:10 |
| Mamarok | but evaluating teams by the amount of reports is corporate absurdity at it's best | 11:10 |
| guntbert | Mamarok: agreed (although none of my business :-)) | 11:11 |
| Mamarok | guntbert: :) | 11:11 |
| bazhang | <guntbert> the sentences "Try again joining #ubuntu, you've been granted...." could be made easier to follow: "Try again joining #ubuntu (type /join #ubuntu) , you've been granted...." | 11:11 |
| nalioth | volunteers :) | 11:11 |
| guntbert | bazhang: yes, that -- any questions about it? | 11:12 |
| bazhang | guntbert, could you !no xyz is <reply> blah blah | 11:12 |
| guntbert | bazhang: that not a factoid - its he introductory message of Floodbotx in #ubuntu-proxy-users | 11:13 |
| bazhang | guntbert, ah my brain is not awake yet , apologies | 11:14 |
| guntbert | (I seem to type quite badly :-)) | 11:14 |
| nalioth | toodles :) | 11:14 |
| guntbert | bazhang: nvm, I was just typing it in, when I thought about using a PM with ubottu ... | 11:14 |
| bazhang | guntbert, I'll ask LjL about it, as he is the fb master | 11:15 |
| guntbert | bazhang: please do - I stumbled about it yesterday with the peter... person in #ubuntu and found that there is really no way for an irc newbie to know what to do | 11:16 |
| bazhang | guntbert, petertattoo/petertat? | 11:17 |
| guntbert | have a nice day :-) | 11:17 |
| guntbert | bazhang: exactly - although he turned out to be more trollish than genuine - there he had a valid point | 11:17 |
| bazhang | thanks guntbert :) | 11:18 |
| guntbert | bazhang: :) | 11:18 |
| ikonia | phew, internet connection back | 12:58 |
| jpds | You need bonded ADSL. | 13:00 |
| ikonia | ha | 13:10 |
| ikonia | it wouldn't have made a difference, half the southwest (more) lost internet | 13:10 |
| ikonia | physical line provider for that corner of the uk had an ouage | 13:11 |
| ikonia | outage | 13:11 |
| Mamarok | oh my, sounds like a medium desaster, how come? | 13:20 |
| ikonia | waiting for updates | 13:20 |
| ikonia | fixed though, so all good | 13:20 |
| jpds | That's still pretty bad. | 13:24 |
| ikonia | yes | 13:24 |
| knome | network outage sounds like an interval death | 13:43 |
| elky | Sounds like it's been a bad week for networks globally. | 13:56 |
| elky | 3rd I've heard of in the past week. | 13:56 |
| robinetd | I'm being harrassed in #ubuntu-offtopic. Thought you ought to know. | 16:45 |
| ubottu | LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (IdleOne (just bashed someone because he copypasted the same thing)) | 16:45 |
| IdleOne | robinetd: I asked you to stop, so that I could then ask dms to stop | 16:48 |
| IdleOne | but everybody and there mother has to jump in. | 16:48 |
| robinetd | IdleOne: And then you engaged in a personal attack upon me, doing the same thing you told dms to not do. | 16:48 |
| robinetd | And by same, I mean exactly the same. Word for word. | 16:48 |
| IdleOne | robinetd: I did, because you sometimes are an ass. | 16:48 |
| IdleOne | there are times you need to know when to shut up dude | 16:48 |
| IdleOne | LjL: feel free to speak | 16:49 |
| IdleOne | robinetd: you know why I bug you and tease you? | 16:50 |
| tsimpson | do you really think this conversation is appropriate? | 16:50 |
| robinetd | IdleOne: No, and I don't much care what the reason is. It's uncalled for. | 16:50 |
| IdleOne | you are me ten years ago dude. I was a smart ass cocky kid just like you :) | 16:50 |
| IdleOne | tsimpson: yes | 16:50 |
| LjL | IdleOne: at the moment i don't have anything to say, but i'm going to follow this conversation. | 16:51 |
| tsimpson | well I don't, insulting people is something we do not tolerate | 16:51 |
| tsimpson | from anyone to anyone | 16:51 |
| IdleOne | tsimpson: ok.then | 16:51 |
| IdleOne | robinetd: if you like I can maybe explain myself in pm as to why I said what I did. | 16:52 |
| IdleOne | msg me if you want, when you are ready | 16:52 |
| robinetd | I already told you, I don't care about the reason. It's uncalled for and shouldn't be happening. | 16:52 |
| IdleOne | fine | 16:53 |
| IdleOne | I apologize | 16:53 |
| IdleOne | I should not have insulted you | 16:53 |
| IdleOne | I promise it won't happen again as I will not be going into -ot anymore | 16:54 |
| IdleOne | anything else the ops team can help you with? | 16:59 |
| IdleOne | if not please part the channel, there is a no idling rule here | 17:01 |
| LjL | i was pondering whether to comment on what happened, and i decided that at this time, i won't | 17:17 |
| LjL | i will say something, though, which is not to be taken as threatening but simply being honest about the way i'm going to behave in the future | 17:18 |
| LjL | i am not going to ignore things i don't like from the ops, and i'm not going to discuss them privately. i'll actually be as public as possible | 17:18 |
| LjL | because i believe that the ops team has become a little too close to public scrutiny. perhaps you may think it's because you've had too much of it | 17:19 |
| IdleOne | LjL: fair enough | 17:19 |
| LjL | but in my opinion, you should always want *more* of it, not less. | 17:19 |
| IdleOne | LjL: I re-acted poorly to the situation, looking at logs I did not see funkyHat had already stepped in and I jumped on his toes. | 17:20 |
| IdleOne | to late | 17:20 |
| gord | dramaaaa | 17:31 |
| IdleOne | indeed but I have removed myself from the channel. | 17:31 |
| IdleOne | I won't be the cause or part of the drama there anymore | 17:32 |
| Tm_T | I don't find calling bad behaviour and reactions to it as "drama" very constructive | 17:32 |
| IdleOne | Tm_T: agreed. Whatever you want to call it I am not going to be part of it. | 17:33 |
| IdleOne | I handled the situation badly and let myself act as badly if not worse then the situation I was trying to stop | 17:34 |
| IdleOne | -ot is to much for me at this point I guess. | 17:34 |
| Tm_T | its very hard place to be, I agree | 17:35 |
| Tm_T | and what I'm about to say, isn't making it any easier, nor it should: | 17:35 |
| IdleOne | perhaps it's me who takes it to seriously | 17:35 |
| Tm_T | it won't ever be any better unless us, ops, show the good example (: | 17:36 |
| IdleOne | well I am not an op in there. I do like the channel because it can be a nice distraction from support and still be with people who are like minded. | 17:37 |
| Tm_T | I don't mean only ops of -ot, but all core ops | 17:37 |
| IdleOne | yes agreed, but if you don't have power to kick/ban them they don't care what we say | 17:38 |
| IdleOne | They don't remember the part in the CoC that says ALL members of the community need to follow and enforce the rules | 17:38 |
| Tm_T | I disagree, it's up to what you say, when you say and how you say, best thing to do is to show a good example instead of enforcing | 17:38 |
| IdleOne | least that is how I understand the CoC | 17:39 |
| IdleOne | well for me enforcing is not about being able to ban. | 17:39 |
| Tm_T | note: I cannot call myself a good example, so all this is pointed towards me too | 17:39 |
| Flannel | Sounds like it may be time to nuke it from orbit. | 18:23 |
| ikonia | only way to be sure | 18:24 |
| bazhang | hah beat me to it | 18:24 |
| IdleOne | I counsel you, my friends: Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. ~Friedrich Nietzsche~ | 18:53 |
| IdleOne | That is something to think about indeed. | 18:53 |
| topyli | hey! nietzsche! leave them kids alone | 19:17 |
| topyli | (title of a study of the teen emo culture) :) | 19:20 |
| Flannel | Meh. | 21:48 |
| IdleOne | I'll 2nd that | 21:49 |
| ikonia | whats up | 21:49 |
| IdleOne | bobbrown bbrown | 21:49 |
| IdleOne | Flannel handled it | 21:50 |
| jpds | +b 2001:470::/32 | 21:53 |
| IdleOne | yay Spain! | 21:55 |
| topyli | not a game to remember though | 22:11 |
| topyli | every contact a foul, every touch a free kick | 22:13 |
| Tm_T | topyli: every? (how ot) | 22:15 |
| topyli | all of them! | 22:16 |
| gord | that felt a little heavy handed really topyli... maybe a please would of gone down well | 22:38 |
| topyli | sorry, argreed. it's an issue i take issue with. should step outside | 22:50 |
| topyli | sometimes it would be better to not be an op so i could tear those statements to pieces | 22:52 |
| Tm_T | topyli: ...you would allow yourself behave badly if not an op? | 22:58 |
| ikonia | !info pysco | 23:29 |
| ubottu | Package pysco does not exist in lucid | 23:29 |
| ikonia | !info psyco | 23:31 |
| ubottu | Package psyco does not exist in lucid | 23:31 |
| jpds | !info python-psycopg2 | 23:32 |
| ubottu | python-psycopg2 (source: psycopg2): Python module for PostgreSQL. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.13-2ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 132 kB, installed size 396 kB | 23:32 |
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