[09:45] <qense> djsiegel1: bug #458376 grumble, grumble
[09:45] <qense> Bug #458376 in One Hundred Paper Cuts: “Indicate the active keyboard layout in 'Keyboard Preferences'-&gt;Layouts”
[09:45] <qense> Was marked as Won't Fix by upstream because the user has to learn to understand the connection between the indicator and the keyboard layout settings.
[10:35] <qense> ivanka: You're atteding GUADEC too! It seems quite a bunch of people from Canonical are coming to The Hague this summer.
[10:39] <ivanka> qense: yes! Will you be there?
[10:39] <qense> ivanka: You're a person I can test something on! Would you find a link to <http://www.ietf78.nl/practicalities.html> useful?
[10:40] <qense> ivanka: Yes! I'm working on the website and will probably be a volunteer during the conference.
[10:40] <ivanka> qense: that looks useful - shall I read it properly this afternoon and let you know?
[10:41] <qense> ivanka: That'd be fine.
[10:41] <qense> thanks :)
[10:43] <ivanka> qense: a pleasure
[10:46] <andreasn> ivanka, looking forward to see you there!
[10:47] <ivanka> andreasn: yes! I am looking forward to having the time to talk about UX advocates and heuristics without interference!
[10:48] <andreasn> totally, will you be there mon-fri?
[10:50] <qense> Monday is The GNOME Open Desktop Day.
[10:54] <andreasn> and BOFs
[10:55] <qense> yes
[10:55] <thorwil> mpt: hi! seems a little odd to me that an important widget fades into the background and isn't even clearly outlined on http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu1010installer-large_002.jpg
[10:55] <mpt> thorwil, the grippy?
[10:55] <thorwil> mpt: yes
[10:56] <mpt> good point
[10:57] <mpt> ev and I are just trying the implementation in a VM to see how much the problem has survived
[11:03] <mpt> thorwil, it's not quite as bad in the current implementation, because the splitter grippy is short grey lines rather than black dots. However, they are still faint so it's difficult to tell that it's draggable. Perhaps you could report a bug on the themes to make the grippy more visible?
[11:06] <thorwil> mpt: the partition blocks to the sides of the divider are no active areas right? if so, the best solution might be to make the whole area active, use a thin line as visual diver, with an arrow pointing down on top as clear mark. as soon as the pointer enters the area, highlight the arrow
[11:06]  * thorwil -> lunch
[11:08] <mpt> thorwil, maybe, though that might be forwards-/sideways-incompatible with a partitioning tool that let you do interesting things by clicking/dragging the blocks (e.g. to rearrange the partitions on disk)
[11:09] <mpt> It would greatly increase the target area, though.
[12:10] <thorwil> mpt: in that case, you could switch to a 2 row approach. upper row entirely for resizing, lower for arranging
[12:13] <thorwil> mpt: have you considered to add a button/link to a everything-you-need-to-know-about-partitioning doc?
[12:24] <mpt> thorwil, no, I'm not working on installer design at the moment, michaelforrest is.
[12:41] <djsiegel1> vish: ping
[12:44] <vish> djsiegel1: pong
[14:03] <djsiegel1> vish: back from lunch
[14:04] <djsiegel1> you there?
[14:21] <qense> djsiegel1: What do you think of bug #458376 ?
[14:21] <djsiegel1> qense: I wanted to let you and vish know
[14:22] <qense> ok
[14:22] <djsiegel1> in addition to accepting paper cuts for bad software descriptions, maybe also accept paper cuts for bad screenshots?
[14:22] <djsiegel1> (in Software Center)
[14:22] <qense> djsiegel1: The problem that could be caused by that (and to a lesser extend is already being caused by the description paper cuts) is that there are quite a lot of those kind of problems.
[14:23] <qense> djsiegel1: We could easily find more than 100 of those bugs.
[14:23] <djsiegel1> qense: you should ask mpt about that buig
[14:23] <djsiegel1> qense: so? that's good!
[14:23] <djsiegel1> you want it to be hard to find paper cuts?
[14:23] <djsiegel1> :)
[14:23] <qense> djsiegel1: The problem with te screenshots is that we don't run the screenshot repository.
[14:23] <djsiegel1> yes, that;s a problem
[14:23] <qense> djsiegel1: Not hard, we should just make sure there remains space for the usability problems
[14:23] <djsiegel1> I discovered something today
[14:23] <qense> djsiegel1: E.g. a requirement for browsers is that they have to have the Debian home page loaded.
[14:24] <djsiegel1> SOFTWARE CENTER SHOWS YOU THE ***OLDEST*** SCREENSHOT AVAILABLE FOR ANY GIVEN PACKAGE
[14:24] <qense> We also don't have consistent themes on the screenshots.
[14:24] <vish> djsiegel1: hi
[14:24] <qense> djsiegel1: The oldest???!?!?!? :S
[14:24] <djsiegel1> That was me screaming
[14:24] <djsiegel1> yes
[14:24] <vish> djsiegel1: anyone can upload screenshots.. and it needs to be accepted by the debian admins
[14:24] <qense> 1997 is preferred over 2010? OMG
[14:24] <djsiegel1> yes
[14:24] <djsiegel1> I was wondering why the screenshot for GNOME Do is 2 years old
[14:24] <djsiegel1> when an updated one is uploaded to the database
[14:25] <vish> djsiegel1: many dont know about it , http://screenshots.debian.net/
[14:25] <djsiegel1> so I checked out the source of software center
[14:25] <vish> thats where the screenshots are pulled from
[14:25] <djsiegel1> it gets the oldest image available
[14:25] <djsiegel1> yes I know where they are from
[14:25] <qense> djsiegel1: But what I mean is that improving the descriptions and screenshots is a massive task, but it only improves the Software Centre. That's very important, but we shouldn't lose focus on the paper cuts.
[14:25] <qense> djsiegel1: Is there a bug for that?
[14:26] <djsiegel1> qense: agreed
[14:26] <djsiegel1> qense: I emailed the database maintainer
[14:27] <qense> djsiegel1: it is a bug in the screenshots database?
[14:27] <djsiegel1> about returning the newest shot available by default instead of the oldest
[14:27] <qense> ok
[14:27] <djsiegel1> qense: it can be considered a bug in both
 qense: it can be considered a bug in both
[14:27] <qense> whoops
[14:27] <qense> Playing witht he keyboard.
[14:28] <qense> djsiegel1: Did you receive a response already>
[14:28] <qense> ?
[14:28] <qense> vish: What do you think about accepting bad screenshots as paper cuts?
[14:29] <vish> qense: then every package has an old screenshot.. + we cant fix it from our end , the debian admins from http://screenshots.debian.net/  are in charge
[14:29] <vish> only they can
[14:29] <qense> vish: true
[14:29] <qense> djsiegel1: Obviously we'd get the best result for Ubuntu if we'd manage our own screenshot repository and would fall back to Debian's once a screenshot couldn't be found. But it might anger some of the Debian Developers and it would mean we'd split our powers.
[14:29] <vish> qense: what it needs is more exposure.. we need to scream "upload new screenshots"
[14:31] <qense> Yeah, and an official Improvement Empowerment project could help a lot with that. But I'm just not so sure we should put it all in the Paper Cuts project. We might consider creating a separate project, but then I would include the descriptions in that as well and focus it completely on the improvement of the presentation of applications in the Software Centre.
[14:31] <vish> and probably fix whatever is going on with the old screenshot being uploaded
[14:31] <vish> rather being pulled
[14:31] <qense> That would leave interface problems to the paper cuts.
[14:31] <qense> vish: yeah, that is important to do
[14:32] <qense> The bugs reported in the Paper Cuts project are of a different kind than the description and screenshot bugs. You can help with the descriptions and the screenshots even if you can't program.
[14:32] <vish> qense: worse , a lot of packages in the feature apps themselves have crappy descriptions
[14:33] <qense> but the paper cuts project does mainly attract people who fix bugs by coding and if you'd present them with the description and screenshots bugs they'd get bored.
[14:33] <qense> vish: That should be our top priority for the Software Centre descriptions.
[14:34] <qense> djsiegel1: But I'm not sure if we can manage to create a whole new project in the midst of a release cycle.
[14:34] <qense> Of course launching the project would be doable, but it would be harder to get _everyone_ aligned.
[14:34] <vish> qense: maybe someone should write a blog.. "did you know?"
[14:35] <qense> vish: Planet Ubuntu can be of great help of course.
[14:37] <qense> djsiegel1: What do you think of the things mentioned above?
[14:41] <djsiegel1> qense: yeah I suppose that's out of scope
[14:42] <mpt> qense, I just commented on bug 458376
[14:42] <qense> What's wrong with ubot today?
[14:42] <mpt> qense, maybe report a bug on ubot5 that it doesn't understand bug summaries with ">" in them?
[14:42] <mpt> (I assume that's what it is)
[14:43] <qense> mpt: seems plausible, I'll take a look
[14:43] <mpt> or maybe it's the ''
[14:43] <qense> mpt: Thanks for the comment!
[14:44] <qense> djsiegel1: So, what to do with the screenshots? Accept bugs for it in the paper cuts project? Would you consider a bad screenshot a valid bug report against an Ubuntu package? I'm not so sure about that since it isn't anything Ubuntu controls, not our infrastructure.
[14:45] <djsiegel1> qense: mvo says he's going to see it resolved on the server side
[14:45] <qense> djsiegel1: So the bug will be fixed.
[14:45] <qense> good
[14:46] <vish> qense: that bug would be a papercut ;)
[14:46] <vish> djsiegel1: got the bug# mvo is working on?
[14:46] <djsiegel1> vish: no I don't have it
[14:53] <vish> djsiegel1: also , i dont think we might hear anytime soon from iTorrey :(
[18:00] <vish> kenvandine: hi , re: the adium theme patches, you had asked for djsiegel1's review , well he referred to iTorrey the author and he has commented/approved on two bugs Bug 542806  and Bug 531811
[18:01] <vish> could you commit them ..
[18:46] <kenvandine> vish, sure
[18:48] <vish> kenvandine: thanks , for Bug #595007 they dont know how to fix it..[comment #14] , if you have any ideas..
[18:48] <vish> the "secs" is an unnecessary extra item being displayed there..
[18:48] <kenvandine> ok
[19:35] <kenvandine> vish, for bug 531811, what about the icon?
[19:37] <vish> of we can use the icon from recent documents..
[19:38] <vish> just a sec , let me get the icon-name
[19:38] <kenvandine> ok
[19:39] <kenvandine> although, the adium theme doesn't use icons from the icon theme
[19:39] <kenvandine> they are bundled in the theme
[19:40] <vish> kenvandine: "document-open-recent" , thats the one already used for View > Previous Conversations
[19:40] <vish> ah , what size does it require?
[19:41] <vish> we can export the existing ones to png and add it to adium theme
[19:41] <kenvandine> one sec
[19:45] <kenvandine> 32x32 i think
[19:49] <vish> hmm , that seems too big
[19:49] <vish> kenvandine: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-32.png
[19:49] <vish> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-24.png
[19:50] <vish> or  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-22.png
[20:00] <kenvandine> vish, ok, 24px
[20:00] <kenvandine> vish, but i am not sure where to put it... it isn't loading it for me :/
[20:00]  * kenvandine tries one more place :)
[20:01] <vish> :)
[20:03] <kenvandine> the bug report says in the Resources dir
[20:03] <kenvandine> but i am not seeing it... and i think it should be appearing on the right hand side