[01:51] <duanedesign> didrocks: is empathy logs and/or settings something that is being considered for OneConf?
[05:27] <pitti> Good morning
[05:27] <kieppie> !lightweight
[05:27] <ubot2> Factoid 'lightweight' not found
[05:27] <kieppie> hi guys. what's the most lightweight, *functional* desktop manager/GUI environment I can use?
[05:28] <kieppie> I'm running Lubuntu on my netbook, but I'd like to keep options open
[06:57] <didrocks> good morning
[06:57] <didrocks> duanedesign: for maverick, not for now, but in long term, yes
[07:36] <pitti> hey didrocks
[07:36] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
[07:39] <pitti> didrocks: I'm great, thanks! I'm back in Munich
[07:39] <pitti> we did a nice climbing tour on Saturday
[07:40] <didrocks> oh, great :) how is the weather in Munich (hope not too hot as you are in a little accomodation) ?
[07:40] <didrocks> small*
[07:40] <pitti> it was 38 degrees on Saturday
[07:41] <pitti> it's a little less melting today, and fortunately this flat goes to the northwest
[07:41] <pitti> so it's quite nice right now (especially at 6 in the morning :) )
[07:41] <didrocks> sometimes it's good to have flat which goes to the north ;)
[07:41] <didrocks> heh, right
[07:42] <didrocks> In Bordeaux, it was 29 degrees at 8 AM :/ I let you imagine during the day…
[08:01] <and471> morning all
[08:47] <and471> mpt: could I ask a quick UI question?
[08:50] <and471> mpt: could I ask a quick UI question?
[08:50] <mpt> and471, yep
[08:51] <and471> mpt: in this image http://imagebin.ca/img/ZwI8Bn.png, I feel as though how I present the first action is wrong (i.e. the button is on the wrong side or something), is there a better way to do it?
[08:53] <mpt> and471, one clue is that at the bottom of an alert or dialog, a Cancel button should always be second from the right, which means that something belongs to the right of it
[08:53] <mpt> Which is going to be the most common action? Saving, perhaps?
[08:53] <and471> mpt, probably edit, then save as, then cancel
[08:53] <and471> save as just means a user is going to edit later
[08:54] <and471> the file format it saves in isn't really useful without editing first
[08:54] <mpt> ok
[08:54] <mpt> So, I can think of two ways to present this
[08:54] <mpt> One is easy to implement but slow to use
[08:54] <mpt> The other is harder to implement but quicker to use
[08:54] <and471> sounds fun :D
[08:54] <mpt> The first way is using radio buttons, with an option menu inside the one that's about editing
[08:55] <mpt> What do you want to do with it?
[08:55] <mpt> (*) Edit with [## Pitivi        :^]
[08:55] <mpt> ( ) Save it
[08:55] <mpt>                    ( Cancel ) (( Continue ))
[08:55] <and471> ok
[08:56] <mpt> The second way is to use a combo button, something I've seen in Windows but haven't seen in GTK, so I'm guessing it probably doesn't exist in GTK and you'd need to do it custom
[08:56] <mpt> "4 minutes 38 seconds were recorded.
[08:57] <mpt> ( Save… )         ( Discard ) ( Edit with Pitivi |^)
[08:57] <mpt> where the "Edit with Pitivi" button has a menubutton at its end that you can use to select a different application.
[08:58] <and471> mpt, cool, is there anywhere I could have an example of a combobutton, I kinda understand what you mean by it, but I would like to see one to be sure
[08:59] <mpt> and471, the "Open" button in http://www.wictorwilen.se/WindowsLiveWriter/CustomizetheFavoriteLinksinWindowsVistac_EA19/image070208[31].png
[09:00] <and471> mpt, thankyou very much for your help :)
[09:00] <mpt> you're welcome
[09:00] <and471> mpt, I shall leave you alone now ;p
[09:09] <and471> mpt, done! http://imagebin.ca/img/bRsbC9f.png
[09:09] <mpt> jolly good
[09:11]  * RAOF wonders why mutter was chosen for Unity.  Compiz uses about half the memory, all the animations are smoother & more physical, and has a more useful window switcher.
[09:12] <lifeless> njpatel: ^
[09:12]  * and471 needs breakfast
[09:13] <RAOF> It also works pretty well as a WM for unity.  Pretty much everything still works when you replace mutter with compiz.
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, had a nice weekend?
[09:17] <seb128> hey everybody:
[09:17] <seb128> did you have a nice weekend?
[09:17]  * pitti hugs seb128, how are you?
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, yeah, it was good thanks. the weather stayed nice for my garden party on saturday :)
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:17]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[09:17] <pitti> we went climbing on Saturday, and swimming yesterday (what else to do when it's 38 degrees..)
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, did you have a good weekend too?
[09:18] <seb128> I'm fine though I wouldn't say no to less than 35°C during days
[09:18] <mvo> RAOF: and compiz just released 0.9.0
[09:19] <mvo> RAOF: so it would be nice to give it a good boost by providing that in the compiz ppa
[09:20] <didrocks> hey seb128, how are you?
[09:21] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:21] <seb128> didrocks, read backlog, I'm lazy to type again :p
[09:21] <seb128> didrocks, how are you?
[09:22] <didrocks> seb128: I'm fine, thanks ;) A little bit exhausted as I was home late in Paris after a too warm week.
[09:22] <seb128> didrocks, had fun at the rmll?
[09:22] <seb128> don't tell me
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's still more a social event than a technical one, but it was good to meet people and talk about projects, and so on
[09:23] <didrocks> 28°C at 8AM is quite scary when you think about what it will be later :)
[09:23] <qense> I find it already hot here, but you live in France! It must be unbearable there without cooling.
[09:24] <didrocks> I just visited for a couple of hours Bordeaux. Seems a beautiful city
[09:24] <seb128> it start being windy there, it might rain ;-)
[09:25] <didrocks> it rained a lot this night in Paris, the temperature is nice now :) (the 28°C was in Bordeaux)
[09:25] <njpatel> RAOF, actually, without Mutter it doesn't/won't work for all the features we need
[09:25] <njpatel> RAOF, though I agree compiz has better GL performance. It's something upstream Mutter and Clutter are working on
[09:25] <njpatel> (as are we, where we can)
[09:25] <RAOF> njpatel: Yeah, the swanky Ubuntu icon doesn't work properly :)
[09:26] <njpatel> Heh, neither will any of the fancy window and workspace stuff when it lands :-)
[09:26] <RAOF> Unity could be slightly more compiz-friendly by declaring itself to be always-on-top in addition to a panel.
[09:27] <njpatel> RAOF, it would require us to keep switching between xshapes (when we're painting only panel + launcher and when we're painting places), which doesn't always work out well
[09:27] <vuntz> seb128: didrocks pretented he was working all week, but I saw him! He was just sitting there, looking at people pass by
[09:27] <vuntz> (hi!)
[09:27] <seb128> vuntz, hey, I'm not surprised!
[09:28] <seb128> vuntz, he also pretented there was no internet but I've seen other people at this conference been on IRC
[09:28] <didrocks> vuntz: that's not nice from you :p
[09:28] <didrocks> seb128: well, in fact, there were 3 sites
[09:29] <RAOF> njpatel: Ah.  I'm interested in the funky window and workspace stuff - is the first cut of this the compiz-scale-like action on right-click?
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: the one with conferences had a mostly working Internet connexion
[09:29] <vuntz> didrocks: did you find good ice cream on sunday?
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: the free software "village" had a crappy one, with latency and a lot of disconnect (we didn't have any connection for 3 afternoon)
[09:29] <didrocks> vuntz: yeah o/ it was the nicest part of sunday to be honest :)
[09:30] <seb128> didrocks, I was just jocking don't worry ;-)
[09:31] <slomo> seb128: ricotz (in #ubuntu-devel) has a gdkpixbuf package, maybe you can start with that and save some time ;)
[09:31] <vuntz> seb128: btw, we learnt that you speak australian english
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: I now, I backlog on Saturday evening and saw you talked to jml :)
[09:31] <seb128> vuntz, that means crappy english right? ;-)
[09:31] <vuntz> heh
[09:31] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't do IRC during the weekend, that was friday rather
[09:32] <didrocks> vuntz: how was your flight, btw? :)
[09:32] <seb128> slomo, oh ok, thanks, did you commit that to debian or reviewed it?
[09:32] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, but the saturday evening bar was the best Internet connexion I had this week, as the fact I backlogged IRC on that day :)
[09:32] <slomo> seb128: not yet, no. he said that the scripts and stuff are still missing
[09:32] <seb128> slomo, btw I just saw your glib upload, isn't an issue to have the bin compat entries in the library?
[09:33] <seb128> slomo, that would make different soname conflict no?
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, oh ok
[09:34] <vuntz> didrocks: my flight was one-hour late
[09:34] <vuntz> didrocks: they had to fix something in the plane before we could take off
[09:34] <njpatel> RAOF, right, that's the initial one. We'll have workspace switching in their soon. The benefits of being in the window manager will show when we add the fancy DND between windows/workspaces and other niceties for day-to-day usage
[09:34] <didrocks> vuntz: urgh, we could have took an icecream finally…
[09:35] <slomo> seb128: the new library package would have a Replaces on the old for the links
[09:36] <seb128> slomo, hum, ok...
[09:36] <seb128> slomo, still seems against usual rules and weird to do
[09:37] <seb128> slomo, why not just using the -bin?
[09:44] <slomo> seb128: might be the better idea...
[09:47] <slomo> seb128: problem is, that gio-querymodules has no pkg-config entry and build systems might require it
[09:47] <slomo> seb128: so you would need to depend on libglib2.0-bin
[09:48] <seb128> slomo, well, how was that working until now? do we really have anything build depending on it in practice or is that something which could happens once to one source?
[09:49] <seb128> slomo, should probably discuss that on #debian-gnome
[09:49] <slomo> seb128: i think gvfs and gconf should call it in make install
[09:49] <slomo> and it worked before because they were, where upstream placed them... in /usr/bin
[09:49] <seb128> they should probably have a flag to not do that
[09:49] <seb128> similar to the disable schemas update one
[09:50] <seb128> well, why did we need to move them to start then?
[09:50] <slomo> i don't know, i didn't see the problem with keeping them in the -bin package together with the triggers and let libglib2.0-0 recommend the -bin package
[11:32] <didrocks> mvo: hey! I tried to add the different host for oneconf in viewswitcher. The issue is that there is a lot of "if channel column" in the model preventing myself to use that for storing hostid that I need to switch to the right view.
[11:33] <didrocks> mvo: what do you think? Should be attribute some kind of plugin id in COL_ACTION and use COL_CHANNEL for plugin? and checking that COL_ACTION is either USC and plugin handled?
[12:26] <mvo> didrocks: hi, is your branch available somewhere
[12:27] <didrocks> mvo: only with the login integration, I can push my WIP branch. I'm trying something to patch USC, can push in 10 min a proposal I think
[12:27] <mvo> didrocks: ok
[12:28] <mvo> didrocks: once there is something to look at that is easier for me to figure out whats needed
[12:28] <didrocks> mvo: sure :)
[12:35] <micahg> seb128: did you want me to merge gjs from debian or not bother since they're the same basic version?
[12:36] <seb128> micahg, would be nice to merge at least once in the cycle if you can do it
[12:36] <micahg> seb128: k, that shouldn't be a problem
[12:36] <seb128> thanks
[13:00] <didrocks> mvo: lp:~didrocks/software-center/expand-viewswitcher-select for my changes in USC and lp:~ubuntu-desktop/oneconf/trunk for oneconf
[13:00] <didrocks> mvo: as you can see there (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=installed-software-computers.jpg), hosts registered in OneConf will be "ACTION" for USC point of view
[13:01] <didrocks> mvo: and I need to use COL_CHANNEL to get some hostid (more than one computer can have the same description, so I need this hostid)
[13:02] <didrocks> mvo: the thing is, the current support in USC is only to refresh (by removing/adding) all channels, my change is to enable reselecting whatever item in the treeview rather than just channels
[13:02] <didrocks> mvo: I still get some issues with the history element, I don't know why I can't get it selected
[13:22] <mvo> didrocks: aha, I see. this sounds like we need to make the current schema in trunk/ more flexible, it looks like your change is a great start, let me start pondering a little bit
[13:23] <mvo> didrocks:  and I will merge the plugin stuff to trunk now so that we have a easier time merging
[13:25] <didrocks> mvo: great! :) yeah, that's exactly that: some flexibility to enable plugins to hook (as maybe an unique ID for plugins to not collide their action?) also, the some tweaking is needed for on_view_switcher_changed in app.py to enable plugin hooking their action their
[13:54] <mpt> mvo, hi, I'd like to send a quick reply to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-June/011729.html
[13:54] <mpt> mvo, is the right answer "we're migrating to Ubuntu Software Center long-term, so to fix it there, make sure that aptdaemon blocks session exit"?
[13:58] <mvo> didrocks: I just looked at the viewswitcher code and its in general a bit ugly and could do with some cleanup (all my fault). would something like "viewswitch.register_view" and some simple signals (selected, expanded) be ok? it seems like it would be a good idea to hide the gtktreemodel stuff as its not really releveant for most users of the ViewSwitcher class (i.e. the fact that its a treeview is just a implmeentation detail). what do you
[13:58] <mvo> think?
[13:58] <mvo> mpt: yes
[13:59] <mpt> mvo, great, thanks
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: we should probably do both, block session exit and halt shutdown until the stuff is finished
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: for cases where the user uses stuff like "sudo halt" to halt the system
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: unattended-upgrades is a good pointer for him
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: it integrates a script like this (a upstart script)
[14:00] <didrocks> mvo: this is a good idea. I think that if plugins can avoid playing directly with the model is a bad idea :) We just need for them to have a uuid for their entry (not related to what is displayed) in addition to name and icon, and some simple signal.
[14:01] <mvo> didrocks: yeah, I guess that can be a simple string that the we generate from the (plugin-name, name) ?
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: so, in my case, for instance, I show icons and hostname, but I can have more than one hostid for a hostname, so I should get that value when the selected signal is triggered (or just point to the right view)
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: also, I can add/remove some items during USC lifetime (what is doing my latest commit in OneConf)
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: plugin-name-name-id for me :) (see ^^ with hostname/hostid)
[14:02] <mvo> didrocks: ok, let me draft a interface for that
[14:02] <didrocks> mvo: great, if I can help you, do not hesitate to ask me :)
[14:10] <mvo> didrocks: I created a ehterpad here http://openetherpad.org/uLbnSTxeFJ
[14:10] <mvo> didrocks: go wild there :)
[14:10] <didrocks> mvo: on it, thanks :)
[14:10] <mvo> thanks!
[14:13] <didrocks> mvo: testing new unity release, backport to lucid and on it in… let's say half an hour/45 minutes
[14:14] <mvo> didrocks: no problem, I have some test failures in python-apt to fix too
[14:14] <mvo> didrocks: just wanted to throw a skeleton out so that we have something to talk about
[14:14] <mpt> mvo, ok, I included that info in the message too, with links to the relevant branches
[14:14] <mvo> mpt: thanks!
[14:39] <htorque> hey, against which package should i file a bug, if an application "survives" a logout? banshee is still playing after I've logged out and logged in again.
[14:40] <seb128> the concerned software
[14:40] <htorque> k, thx
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: hmm, current 2.31 gpm uses gsettings
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, we don't do GNOME 2.31
[14:49] <pitti> ok; I wasn't sure whether we want to do some gsettings packages or not
[14:50] <seb128> depends
[14:50] <seb128> if the benefit is worth the work...
[14:50] <pitti> not so far; we can do cherrypicks
[14:50] <seb128> but that one seems a tricky one because it's likely to have keys shared over components
[14:50] <pitti> it ports from libdevkit-power to libupower-glib
[14:50] <pitti> but we can backport that as well
[14:50] <pitti> (next upower release will drop libdevkit-power)
[14:50] <seb128> ok
[14:50] <seb128> thanks
[14:51] <seb128> we try to avoid having shared desktop keys with gsettings and gconf clients
[14:51] <seb128> since there is no sync between those
[14:51] <seb128> so for now we only updates selected softwares, ie empathy
[14:51] <seb128> or gnome-calculator
[15:06] <seb128> hum
[15:07] <seb128> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/462547/
[15:07] <seb128> mvo, have you seen similar crashes? it's on current maverick there
[15:09] <mvo> seb128: let me check
[15:10] <seb128> mvo, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/604250
[15:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604250 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in estimatedDownloadTime() (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 3286)" [Undecided,New]
[15:10] <seb128> mvo, it has been reported by somebody else so it's not only me ;-)
[15:19] <mvo> seb128: thanks, fixed
[15:19] <seb128> mvo, waouh, you rock as always, thanks!
[15:23] <seb128> mvo, I've changed the bug to fix commited
[15:27] <mvo> seb128: thanks, fix uploaded
[15:28] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[15:29] <didrocks> mvo: thinking about it, the view_id in my comment doesn't seem relevant for most of plugin I guess. I'll handle the dict on my side. I can't think about any other thing needed for the pane list
[15:34] <mvo> didrocks: thanks, so the view-manager thing looks ok?
[15:35] <didrocks> mvo: yeah, sounds fullfill my needs at least and the one for your cases too, right?
[15:36] <didrocks> mvo: I'm just wondering, as I'll refresh the list regularly as you do for channels, is it to the plugin to ensure that removing/adding the same view again still select the right item?
[15:37] <mvo> didrocks: keep selected> not sure yet, I guess it should be done by the ViewManager, but I'm not 100% certain yet
[15:37] <mvo> didrocks: use-case> it should simplify the current code quite a bit, so it should be a good change
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, hum, seems the ddeb index is buggy
[15:39] <dobey> oh wow package summaries really suck don't they :)
[15:40] <dobey> some packages from the same source all have the same summary it seems :-/
[15:40] <kenvandine> dobey, indeed... lots of those i think
[15:40] <didrocks> mvo: sure, it would be good for you too :) I'm thinking about that view (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=inventory-computer.jpg), do you think I just inherite from an existing one or start a new one? It has mutiple treeview (installed/removed/others) and I'm quite scary about the search integration TBH
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/libi/libindicator/
[15:41] <dobey> i just ran update-manager and was like "wait, what am i updating?"
[15:41] <dobey> doesn't help that the package name is <small> now
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, some of the debs are not listed in any index, neither the main one or the universe one
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, it seems it's binaries in universe from a source in main missing there
[15:44] <dobey> is the glib/gconf conflict fixed now? i've been holding back gconf since it broke
[15:44] <seb128> what conflicts?
[15:45] <seb128> there is no known conflicts
[15:45] <seb128> dobey, there was some issues with the gnome-shell ppa it seems
[15:45] <seb128> using that maybe?
[15:45] <dobey> no
[15:46] <dobey> there was a conflict with a man page
[15:46] <seb128> ok so we need details on the conflict
[15:46] <dobey> something to do with gsettings/dconf stuff
[15:46] <seb128> if you could copy the exact conflict line from apt that would be useful
[15:49] <dobey>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/gsettings-schema-convert.1.gz', which is also in package libglib2.0-bin 2.25.9-1ubuntu3
[15:49] <dobey> seems to not be in the glib2.0-bin package any more though, according to dpkg -L
[15:49] <dobey> hrmm
[15:50] <dobey> will try upgrading gconf2 again after the current update finishes running
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, sudo apt-get -f install
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, your libglib2.0-bin is outdated
[15:51] <dobey> i did that at the time, and it failed
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-bin gconf
[15:52] <dobey> so i just installed the older gconf2 packages to get things going
[15:52] <dobey> but it looks like it installs ok now
[15:53] <dobey> i guess i ran an update at some point when the archive wasn't totally synced, to get that issue?
[15:54] <seb128> dobey, right and we forgot to use a replaces to handle the move nicely
[15:55] <mvo> dobey: update-manager> I have no strong opinions either way, there is a gconf key to switch to the old style
[15:56] <dobey> hrmm, well, need to reboot :)
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: !
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: long time no see
[15:59] <mpt> mvo, have you seen this? https://code.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-properties/updates-redesign/+merge/29123
[15:59] <seb128> re
[15:59] <didrocks> mvo: did you saw my previous question? (approx 15 minutes before) about the paneview inheritence?
[15:59] <seb128> djsiegel, hey, how arre you?
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: I'd like for us to turn off the screen lock on resume by default.
[16:00] <vish> +1 to djsiegel
[16:00] <mvo> mpt: no, I check it out after the call
[16:00]  * vish always the first thing i do on a fresh install
[16:00] <mpt> ok
[16:00] <seb128> djsiegel, hum, I think we had this discussion before
[16:00] <djsiegel> seb128: because it makes resume take about 3 seconds less
[16:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: ^
[16:00] <mvo> didrocks: no, can you paste it in again (in a call right now, sorry)
[16:00] <seb128> do you remember if we discussed this?
[16:00] <djsiegel> seb128: you've always had the discussion before!
[16:00] <didrocks> sure, mvo: sure, it would be good for you too :) I'm thinking about that view (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=inventory-computer.jpg), do you think I just inherite from an existing one or start a new one? It has mutiple treeview (installed/removed/others) and I'm quite scary about the search integration TBH
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> we did discuss it before at some point
[16:01] <seb128> djsiegel, not my fault if what ux guys see as annoyances are often a balance between security and usability ;-)
[16:01] <djsiegel> Yeah whatever.
[16:01] <djsiegel> lol
[16:01] <seb128> djsiegel, it also makes your system less secure
[16:02] <djsiegel> seb128: people can lock before they close it if they want
[16:02] <djsiegel> I don't like the idea that we are always locking the screen on idle, on screensaver, on sleep "for security"
[16:03] <seb128> well then you make suspend be 2 actions instead of one
[16:03] <djsiegel> yes, when you want it locked
[16:03] <djsiegel> you could change the default if you always want a lock
[16:03] <seb128> I'm not even sure how you suspend once it's locked
[16:03] <djsiegel> but users who don't want the lock get a better experience
[16:03] <djsiegel> I ran this by sabdfl and he is +1 on it.
[16:03] <chrisccoulson> at some point, the lock-on-idle and lock-on-suspend preference got decoupled, and we had a lot of users complain that when they enabled lock-on-idle in the screensaver preferences, their screen didn't lock on suspend
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, can we get a clear spec which defines the behaviour on all situations?
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, ie on user switching, on suspend, on hibernate
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> so we fixed that so that the preference applies to both suspend and idle, and we switched on lock-on-idle by default for security reasons
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, on manual screen locking
[16:04] <djsiegel> seb128: yeah, sure
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, and how we change from wanting to not lock to lock
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, thanks
[16:05] <seb128> djsiegel, we should probably have all those consistant and with one setting changing mode to lock to unlock
[16:05] <djsiegel> seb128: hmm
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> i'm surprised that locking affects resume speed so much though
[16:05] <djsiegel> lock on screensaver and lock on suspend could be two separate preferences for some people
[16:05] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: I think there's some artifical sleep in there or something
[16:06] <chrisccoulson> we had that by accident and users got really confused
[16:06] <seb128> djsiegel, what about lock on user switch?
[16:06] <djsiegel> seb128: you mean the bug I reported?
[16:06] <seb128> dunno if you reported a bug, I know that's yet another case of "lock on..."
[16:06] <seb128> not sure if we want a screen with a list of "lock on..." options
[16:06] <seb128> or just having "lock in all cases or don't"
[16:07] <djsiegel> seb: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm-guest-session/+bug/600559
[16:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600559 in gdm-guest-session (Ubuntu) "When screensaver lock is disabled, terminating a guest session resumes the parent session without asking for a password (affects: 1) (heat: 564)" [Undecided,New]
[16:08] <djsiegel> seems like the implementation is a bunch of spaghetti, interpreting the same gconf keys in different contexts
[16:08] <seb128> djsiegel, is that specific to the guest session?
[16:08] <seb128> right :-(
[16:08] <seb128> that's why I would like clear spec with all the case
[16:08] <djsiegel> seb128: no I think the account switch lock is reusing the screensaver lock!
[16:08] <seb128> rather than just tweaking one key which will have side effect
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, in the case of your bug report, the screen has to be locked regardless of whether you return to GDM or your session
[16:08] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: isn't GDM the lock?
[16:08] <seb128> no
[16:08] <djsiegel> you wouldn't want a lock screen over GDM
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, no, your session will still be active on another VT
[16:09] <seb128> you can ctrl-alt-f<n>
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> i could just switch VT from GDM ;)
[16:09] <seb128> you need the screensaver to lock the actual session
[16:09] <seb128> or anybody can use the keyboard to go to your session
[16:10] <djsiegel> ok, explain one more time please :)
[16:10] <djsiegel> When I switch user sessions, I am really switching to GDM on another vt?
[16:11] <seb128> explain what? I feel we have described lot of cases and are as confused as this whole locking story is
[16:11] <djsiegel> My session stays running on another vt with the screensaver lock?
[16:11] <seb128> yes
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, yes
[16:11] <seb128> the greeter screen is on one VT
[16:11] <seb128> and each user session has its own VT
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> the only way to protect the session is for the screensaver to lock it
[16:11] <seb128> changing user sessions or going to the user lists are only VT switches
[16:11] <djsiegel> so, when you said we need a lock at GDM, you meant a lock screen, locking my session, but not locking GDM, which happens to be running on another vt at the same time
[16:12] <seb128> we didn't say that gdm needs a lock
[16:12] <seb128> the user session needs gnome-screensaver to start locking on any context switch
[16:12] <djsiegel> ok, I was confused by "the screen has to be locked [if] ...you return to GDM"
[16:13] <djsiegel> ok, got it
[16:13] <djsiegel> I think we may want to disable lock on resume regardless if it's causing resume performance issues
[16:13] <djsiegel> Maybe we can fix the sleep though
[16:13] <seb128> do we want to lock the keyring then?
[16:13] <djsiegel> it does seem artificial
[16:13] <seb128> or do you want to let the keyring unprotected?
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> we should probably look at those performance issues before taking a decision like that
[16:14] <djsiegel> Well, what we want is fast resume, not 3 second resume
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> and we'd need to discuss such a decision with the security team anyway
[16:14] <seb128> well do you want your passwords to be protected on sleep?
[16:14] <djsiegel> I don't think the user will mind if the keyring is locked
[16:14] <seb128> or do you want anybody stealing your laptop having your password in clear
[16:14] <seb128> well it will in the sense you will have to enter your keyring password on resume
[16:14] <seb128> to connect to your im or wireless
[16:14] <djsiegel> seb128: immediately?
[16:15] <djsiegel> ah, ok
[16:15] <seb128> yes
[16:15] <ronoc> bl8: ping
[16:15] <djsiegel> I see
[16:15] <seb128> so it sort of defeat the win
[16:15] <djsiegel> yep
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> do we even lock the keyring on suspend?
[16:15] <djsiegel> but at least you see your desktop state and not a black lock screen, but it's really all the same and we can do better
[16:15] <seb128> the other option is to not lock the keyring on suspend
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> i know we used to when the suspend requests were proxied through g-p-m......
[16:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think we do since gnome-screensaver unlock it
[16:16] <seb128> djsiegel, well at least people understand the "enter your password", they don't really understand the "enter your keyring password" and why it's displayed
[16:16] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, does gnome-screensaver actually lock the keyring?
[16:16] <seb128> djsiegel, ie they don't get they need that password to be able to read their im or wireless password in a secure way
[16:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure what does lock it
[16:17] <djsiegel> yes, this is a separate issue that is solvable, I am just worried about the wait time added by the lock screen on resume, and also worried about asking for a password to resume
[16:17] <djsiegel> we can solve them in that order, I don't see any reason why the lock screen needs 3 seconds to show
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i have a feeling that nothing locks it right now
[16:17] <djsiegel> unless maybe it's going to disk or something?
[16:18] <seb128> djsiegel, it doesn't there
[16:18] <seb128> it would need debugging on why it does for you
[16:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that would be a bug
[16:19] <djsiegel> I've seen it on quite a few laptops.
[16:19] <djsiegel> With locking on, I resume, there's a pause, then the lock screen
[16:19] <djsiegel> With locking off, I resume and instantly see the desktop
[16:19] <djsiegel> it's been the case with all laptops I've tried
[16:19] <djsiegel> come to think of it, maybe even SSD too...
[16:26] <seb128> djsiegel, is the desktop usable or do you just see the desktop displayed?
[16:27] <seb128> djsiegel, I think it's as slow but in your case you already have in the video the display you want to see
[16:27] <djsiegel> seb128: cannot test atm, maverick broke my suspend
[16:27] <seb128> so it's quite a nice user experience
[16:27] <djsiegel> it doesn't matter really, it feels fast
[16:27] <seb128> as long as you are trying to use it before it's ready
[16:27] <seb128> right
[16:27] <seb128> well I'm fine doing the change
[16:28] <seb128> but I don't want to tweak one key every second week because users get confused by some behaviour
[16:28] <seb128> I think we should think clearly about what we want in case of suspend, hibernate, lock screen, user switching, guest session
[16:28] <seb128> and specify the options to control these settings
[16:28] <seb128> ie have the behaviour we want spec-ed
[16:29] <seb128> otherwise we will keep have confusion on what settings do to each of those cases
[16:29] <seb128> and if that's the right behaviour
[16:29] <seb128> etc
[16:29] <seb128> djsiegel, ^
[16:41] <djsiegel> seb128: right
[16:41] <djsiegel> we should do that, and that will likely involve some new code
[16:41] <djsiegel> to decouple currently tightly coupled settings
[16:41] <seb128> indeed
[16:42] <djsiegel> but I wonder whether we should just change the setting to get faster resumes for the time being, or make no change until we can fix it all?
[16:42] <djsiegel> mvo: I merged that code I sent you into a local branch of software-center - it works!
[16:42] <seb128> djsiegel, so changing from having the screen locking to have the keyring password prompt?
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, can I be nosy and ask what?
[16:43] <and471> it does?
[16:43] <djsiegel> and471: /
[16:43] <djsiegel> ?
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, the patch
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, sorry I was thinking about something else, the code you sent mvo
[16:43] <djsiegel> and471: Ubuntu Software Center shows the oldest screenshot available for each package, and I patched it to show the newest one available...
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, woo!
[16:44] <mvo> djsiegel: cool, push the branch :)
[16:44] <djsiegel> mvo: it will need some threading
[16:44] <djsiegel> you synchronously make the resource url right now
[16:44] <djsiegel> the scraping blocks a bit
[16:44] <djsiegel> not for production use!
[16:45] <djsiegel> seb128: so, I disabled the resume lock on my machine, and I don't get keyring prompt, so this means my keyring is unlocked with the resume lock is off in Lucid?
[16:45] <djsiegel> *my keyring is unlocked when the resume lock is off
[16:45] <djsiegel> are you guys on mumble?
[16:46] <bigon> seb128: around?
[16:46] <seb128> djsiegel, do you come to the sprint next week?
[16:46] <seb128> bigon, yes
[16:46] <bigon> seb128: did you saw my message this morning about tp-butterfly?
[16:47] <djsiegel> seb128: yes
[16:47] <bigon> last papyon and tp-butterfly now support file transfert
[16:47] <and471> mvo, is the dialog that appears when you click File > Login meant to be this one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=review-single-sign-on.jpg
[16:47] <seb128> bigon, yes, sorry I forgot to reply, I do sync all telepathy-* usually when they are uploaded to debian
[16:47] <and471> mvo, or is it different?
[16:47] <bigon> seb128: alright :)
[16:47] <seb128> bigon, yeah, they are already in maverick, I synced them early on
[16:47] <seb128> djsiegel, ok, so let's chat next week rather
[16:47] <djsiegel> sure
[16:47] <seb128> djsiegel, I've another call in 15 minutes and need to finish something before
[16:48] <bigon> seb128: great :)
[16:48] <and471> mpt, maybe my question for mvo ^ is for you?
[16:51] <mpt> and471, roughly the same, but maybe without the "I want to register an account" option, since someone should have gone into it only if they had an existing account they wanted to reassociate with.
[16:51] <mpt> and471, mvo, and it's "Log In", not "Login". :-) http://loginisnotaverb.com/
[16:52] <and471> mvo, uhoh, you're in trouble... :D
[16:52] <and471> mpt, thanks
[16:53] <mvo> and471: yes, this one
[16:53] <staz> bigon: seb128 it apparently eat the whole cpu when you cancel a file transfer so I would wait till they figure this out before packaging
[16:53] <seb128> staz, it's already uploaded and in Debian and Ubuntu
[16:53] <staz> ah
[16:54] <didrocks> mpt: did you see my remaining questions at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-June/002591.html? (particularly on the "Other items" where I'm puzzled about the meaning)
[16:54] <mpt> didrocks, yes, there's a reply in my Outbox
[16:54] <mvo> and471: there is something for this already in the code, but the login dialog and the glade could do with some love
[16:55] <mvo> and471: in case you look for something simple to relax ;)
[16:55] <and471> mvo, thats what I was going to look at :)
[16:55] <and471> hehe
[16:55] <didrocks> mpt: ok, just wanted to ensure it wasn't lost and dropped of TODO list :) thanks!
[16:55] <mvo> and471: sweet
[16:56] <mvo> and471: softwwarecenter/view/logindialog.py iirc
[16:56] <and471> mvo, cool, and I presume data/ui/login.ui
[16:56] <mvo> and471: yep
[16:56] <mvo> PYTHONPATH=. python softwarecenter/vielogindialog.py
[16:57] <mvo> and471: if you want to actually run it, it should actually work and log you into your ubuntu single-sign-on account
[16:57] <pitti> seb128: hm, for all such cases?
[16:57] <seb128> pitti, what?
[16:57] <pitti> seb128: main/universe mix ddebs missing
[16:58] <seb128> pitti, dunno, the case I've is libindicate-tools there
[16:58] <seb128> pitti, libindicator-tools rather
[16:58] <pitti> seb128: screen lock> we did, and I think the biggest issue everyone had was to be consistent with locking for timeouts, suspends, and user switches
[16:58] <and471> mvo, ah thanks, it should be easier now
[16:59] <seb128> pitti, do we have any security concern to let the keyring and computer unlocked after suspend?
[16:59] <pitti> well, the obvious case is that your laptop gets stolen
[16:59] <pitti> (while it's in suspend)
[16:59] <and471> mvo, how can I trusts that the username and password I type in aren't going to your botnet? :D
[17:00] <pitti> seb128: but if users aren't concerned about that, it's not rocket science to turn off
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, we were discussing default though
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, ie what the out of the box installation do
[17:00] <pitti> personally I like it the way it is, TBH
[17:01] <pitti> for mobile devices it's the right thing to do IMHO
[17:01] <seb128> right
[17:01] <seb128> ok, dist-upgrade done, session restart, brb
[17:02] <mvo> and471: heh :) better use a fake account then ;)
[17:02] <and471> mvo, ;0
[17:02] <and471> ;)
[17:03] <seb128> hum
[17:03] <seb128> bug-buddy hijack apport there now it seems?
[17:07] <bl8> ronoc: pong
[17:11] <mvo> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/604500 smeels like a policykit-gtk issue to me, what do you think?
[17:11] <ronoc> bl8: hey
[17:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604500 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager second password input box isn't selected by default (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[17:11] <ronoc> bl8: have you prepared a package for maverick with the ayatana and mpris stuff in it ?
[17:13] <ronoc> bl8: I was hoping to get a banshee compliant package into the ppa so as I can test against
[17:13] <bl8> ronoc: No, I haven't updated the mpris stuff for the spec update yet.
[17:14] <ronoc> bl8: okay
[17:14] <ronoc> bl8: was going to release 0.3.6 which will fix alot of silly stuff wrong with previous versions
[17:14] <ronoc> this should be out later today
[17:14] <seb128> ronoc, it's out already
[17:15] <bl8> ronoc: External factors are doing wonders to get me away from working on that : other shiny stuff, etc. ;)
[17:15] <bl8> ronoc: Cool, I'll keep an eye on that
[17:15] <ronoc> seb128: legend thx
[17:16] <ronoc> bl8: I hear you , summer is passing us by ...
[17:17] <seb128> mvo, hum, I hate focus issues ;-)
[17:17] <seb128> mvo, but yeah, seems likely
[17:18] <seb128> pitti, sorry got sidetracked by other pings, I will check if I get the ddeb issues with something else
[17:19] <huats> hello everyone !
[17:19] <seb128> lut huats
[17:19] <huats> seb128, o/
[17:19] <kenvandine> hey huats
[17:19] <huats> thanks for your answer seb128
[17:20] <huats> hello kenvandine
[17:20] <seb128> np
[17:20] <huats> seb128, I think I'll find something else to work on:)
[17:20] <seb128> ;-)
[17:29] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:30] <seb128> 'night pitti
[17:33] <didrocks> good nigh pitti
[17:36] <didrocks> mpt: thanks for the answer, I'll get a proper reply tomorrow morning :)
[17:36] <mpt> ok
[17:38]  * didrocks waves goodnight too
[17:52] <seb128> didrocks, have fun, see you tomorow
[17:52] <seb128> tomorrow
[17:53] <and471> mpt, is this okay? http://imagebin.org/105001
[17:54] <and471> mpt, (obviously with ubuntu logo instead of elementary)
[17:54] <mpt> and471, did you do that from scratch, or is that a polish of mvo's existing dialog?
[17:55] <and471> mpt, umm, a bit of both
[17:55] <and471> mpt, I took his dialog, but then reformatted the structure
[17:55] <and471> mpt, I used a table as the main structure, rather than two vboxs
[17:55] <and471> mpt, can I ask why?
[17:56] <mpt> and471, just didn't want you to have done unnecessary work :-)
[17:56] <mpt> It looks just about perfect, well done
[17:56] <and471> mpt, hehe thanks
[17:56] <mpt> two tiny things wrong
[17:56] <and471> cool
[17:56] <mpt> and471, 1: A missing "." at the end of the primary text
[17:57] <mpt> and471, 2: "I've" should be "I’ve" :-)
[17:57] <and471> mpt, hehe good to see I'm not the only OCD person :D
[17:57] <and471> mpt, ok those are now fixed
[17:58] <and471> mpt, do you want to have the dialog to play around with, just incase there are errors only apparent when used
[18:02] <mpt> and471, is the first text field focused by default?
[18:02] <mpt> and471, does the dialog block use of the main window? (it should)
[18:09] <mpt> and471, other than that, yes :-) But I'm going home now, and it looks good enough to be merged into the ratings-and-reviews branch anyway
[18:09] <mpt> thanks for working on it
[18:09] <and471> mpt, ah sorry didn't see ur comments
[18:09] <and471> mpt, your welcome
[19:21] <abhi_nav> and413
[19:21] <abhi_nav> ping
[19:25] <kim0> Hey, is there anyway to get a notification that sticks on the desktop. i.e. I want to setup an irssi script that puts an icon in the tray when I'm mentioned in irc
[19:25] <kim0> all messages so far appear for a few seconds then they're gone
[19:27] <Laney> write some bindings for the messaging indicator?
[19:28] <abhi_nav> Laney, do you know that person something called and741 etc? I need to meet him regarding learnid. any reference you can give?
[19:28] <Laney> abhi_nav: No, sorry. Try /whois or email
[19:28] <abhi_nav> Laney, ok
[19:28] <abhi_nav> anyone from learnid team here?
[19:32] <tremolux> abhi_nav: I think you are looking for and471; he was on earlier but signed off about 1/2 hour ago
[19:32] <abhi_nav> tremolux, yah ok. thanks :)
[19:33] <tremolux> abhi_nav: sure  :)
[19:33] <dobey> hey tremolux
[19:34] <tremolux> hiya dobey
[19:34] <dobey> tremolux: i guess you work from home all the time now?
[19:34] <abhi_nav> tremolux, actualy anybody from lernid project will do. :) if possible. ;)
[19:34] <tremolux> abhi_nav: sorry, can't help there
[19:35] <tremolux> dobey: yep, pretty much!
[19:35] <abhi_nav> tremolux, ok. np
[19:35] <dobey> tremolux: too bad. i stopped by the office last tuesday. it seemed emptier than when i was there in january though :P
[19:36] <tremolux> dobey: ah!  sorry I missed you
[19:40] <dobey> tremolux: no worries :)
[19:41] <tremolux> dobey: I haven't been there during office hours in a few weeks now, I sure can't imagine it anything like empty tho!!  ;)
[19:44] <dobey> haha, well, there were people there
[19:44] <dobey> but it didn't seem as busy as it was in january
[20:59] <jcastro> seb128: good job!
[20:59] <seb128> jcastro, thanks ;-)
[21:12] <huats> seb128, that was interesting indeed seb128