[00:51] <Chipaca> popey: you still there?
[00:51] <Chipaca> popey: the wording is funny, but you should be able to revert it easily
[00:51] <Chipaca> popey: not sure what you meant by that however
[00:56] <popey> Chipaca: i pressed the enable button and it disappeared
[00:56] <popey> so i didnt see a button that would let me revert
[00:56] <popey> which made me panic
[00:57] <Chipaca> popey: the wording is wrong, we're working on that. The placement was wrong, but has been fixed (if you're on the nightlies), so now it only appears on places that make sense. Still in more places than some people will want, however.
[00:57] <Chipaca> popey: what it does is sync that folder with u1
[00:57] <popey> yes, i understand that
[00:57] <popey> but what if i dont use u1?
[00:57] <Chipaca> popey: so once it's synced you should get a 'disable' button, which would stop syncing. In the middle, it might be broken right now
[00:58] <popey> but it will never complete a sync in my case
[00:58] <popey> the folder i clicked 'enable' on is 3.5GB
[00:58] <popey> (i am on the 2G plan)
[00:58] <Chipaca> there's *another* bug about warning you about that situation :)
[00:58] <popey> :)
[00:58] <popey> good good
[00:59] <Chipaca> we can't do much more than warn you right now
[00:59] <popey> I'll do some more testing and follow up with bugs
[00:59] <Chipaca> thanks
[00:59] <popey> thanks for letting me know the situation
[00:59] <Chipaca> you can check in the case mapper to see how it's supposed to work
[00:59] <Chipaca> the case mapper stuff isn't set in stone, but it's pretty darn close :)
[01:01] <popey> will the u1 bar always be there, even for people who dont use u1?
[01:01] <Chipaca> popey: define "don't use". Probably, yes.
[01:01] <popey> haven't signed up to it
[01:02] <popey> ugh, thats a bit.. spammy
[01:02] <Chipaca> popey: yes, it'll be there
[01:02] <Chipaca> popey: yes, it is
[01:02] <popey> thats gonna get us some negative press IMO
[01:02] <Chipaca> I'd love a well thought out bug report in that direction
[01:03] <popey> I am trying to envisage any similar situation on other platforms. All I can think of is things like MSN messenger nagging you to join up
[01:04] <popey> i realise there are value add features on the mac for example that require a mobile me account
[01:04] <popey> but I'm pretty sure none of them are that in your face
[01:04] <popey> hmm, will have to think more on this.
[01:04] <popey> thanks
[01:05] <Chipaca> no, thank you!
[01:06] <Chipaca> (also, whoops, nearly lost connectivity there as the bus went through an extra hilly bit)
[01:06] <popey> hehe
[08:27] <duanedesign> popey: there is a bug report about that U1 bar in Maverick
[09:18] <duanedesign> popey: bug 601102
[09:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 601102 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "ubuntu one disabled notice in every nautilus window (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601102
[09:24] <rye> popey, the fix for this is already committed to the bzr, now this banner will appear in all directories within $HOME but not in $HOME itself
[09:27] <duanedesign> morning rye
[09:27] <rye> duanedesign, morning!
[09:46] <duanedesign> rye: someone went over this with me the other day i just wanted to confirm. The ubuntuone-ops+ team has been merged into another team?
[09:47] <duanedesign> i wsa going to update the wiki 'Bug Workflow' page
[09:47] <rye> duanedesign, i heard about that from beuno but i need to doublecheck, when pfibiger becomes available
[09:49] <duanedesign> ok thanks
[10:22] <duanedesign> rye: i thought this was interesting.I know you have been messing around with python. http://blog.ksplice.com/2010/07/building-filesystems-the-way-you-build-web-apps/
[10:26] <rye> duanedesign, hm, interesting, btw, did you know that the first versions  of ubuntuone client were fuse-based?
[10:27] <duanedesign> rye: i did not.
[10:33] <rye> duanedesign, however there were issues with kernel lock-ups and file tree refresh (server to client) that made the team to start developing alternative approach
[10:35] <duanedesign> interesting.
[13:44] <JoachimR> hello !
[13:46] <JoachimR> is anyone available for a question ?
[13:52] <duanedesign> JoachimR: hello
[13:53] <duanedesign> JoachimR: what was your question?
[14:10] <CardinalFang> Chipaca, I'm trying to renew my driving license, and at this rate, I may not be out in time for standup meeting in 50 min.
[14:11] <CardinalFang> Ooo, it's picking up now. maybe i will.
[14:19] <duanedesign> ugh the DMV
[14:48] <dobey> CardinalFang: do they have a comfy chair at least?
[14:50] <CardinalFang> dobey, yes, but the wait itself is excruciating.
[14:51] <dobey> heh
[14:51] <dobey> yeah, i need to take another car in for state inspection soon, probably this week or early next
[14:54] <duanedesign> i had to replace a lost drivers license, it was awful.
[14:57] <dobey> really?
[14:58] <dobey> i would just order a new one on-line
[15:00] <duanedesign> :D
[15:06] <dobey> i haven't been to the dmv in years :)
[15:07] <CardinalFang> Online only works if you don't need it soon.
[15:08] <dobey> it's all relative :)
[15:09] <dobey> and i don't believe in time anyway. i only refer to it as a means of relating to other humans, since they all use it.
[15:21] <CardinalFang> I was goung
[15:35] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: ping
[15:36] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: ping
[15:37] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, hi
[15:37] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: hi! got few minutes for me for Android related chat :) ?
[15:37] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, sure.
[15:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: few apps is more then me ;) hehe
[15:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: have you written a Service on Android?
[15:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: I started the implementation (remote process), though I'm not sure what would be the best choice
[15:39] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, yes.
[15:39] <mkarnicki> remote process with AIDL IPC, or a local binded process
[15:40] <mkarnicki> U1Service could, potentially, be used later by 3rd party apps, if
[15:40] <mkarnicki> I would start playing with couchDB, but for know AndroidU1 would be the only app
[15:40] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: since connecting + authenticating is costly (in time and memory), plus
[15:41] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: the user will have an option to leave the process in the background for real sync
[15:41] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: do you think that I'm complicating my life, or remote service with IPC interface is a good idea?
[15:42] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: U1 has it's Java client written by verterok, it uses concept of Deferred(s), scheduling task that will execute sooner or later. they are async, so that's their point.
[15:43] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: Android has AsyncTasks, which are cool for blocking operations, but I can't use them, as Deferreds run on their own thread (sic!) :(
[15:43] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: ok I think 2 simultaenous questions is enough for now.. ;)
[15:43] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, I'm working on the first answer!
[15:43] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: cool :)
[15:44] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: I've reserached it pretty well, so you can ask me Service related questions
[15:45] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: (local binded service runs in the same .apk process [as Activities, etc]; remote process runs on it's own, so that other applications can communicate with it through inter-process communication interface, with which they bind to the service whenever they e.g. need to schedule a download, upload, sync, whatever)
[15:47] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: however, I think I have checked that local binded service got killed when I left the main Activity.. I'm pretty sure that was the case. and we don't want to interrupt the service (unless the user does it him/herself by killing it with a task manager or what not)
[15:54] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, yes, you want a Service + AIDL, if you want synch to continue outside an Activity.  If the user switches away, then they system is likely to kill any local threads in the activity.  AIDL+RPC is not hugely expensive, but you should not make unnecessary in-out or out parameters.
[15:55] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: good :)
[15:55] <mkarnicki> yes, that's what we want, I'm pretty sure.
[15:56] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: the user will have choice to not sync in background, but if he want is, the service will run uninterruptedly
[15:57] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: good to hear it from an Android-aware person. I really struggled on which version to choose
[15:57] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, right, I think it should still be in a service, but the service can kill itself if the user wants when it's not used.
[15:57] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: exactly
[15:57] <CardinalFang_> Let the activity ask for some binding to start it up, and when work is finished, shut down.
[15:57] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: so I'll move the U1Client into the SErvice
[15:58] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: that's delicate. as long as the user doesn't sync every folder he wants to browse (which would be expensive in cost of battery life-time and possibly $ if not on WIFI)
[15:58] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: then we have to keep the service alive to let the user browse the cloud
[15:59] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: every tap on a folder creates that folder on the device and caches it's content (meta data, not the file contents themselves)
[15:59] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: so the service should run at least as long as the activity is in the foreground
[16:00] <CardinalFang_> Right.
[16:00] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: if it's in the backgroud (and it's not performing sync), then it can shutdown, but it will have to reconnect when the Activity resumes
[16:01] <CardinalFang_> mkarnicki, right, but expect many reconnects anyway.  phone connectivity sucks.
[16:01] <CardinalFang_> or, if you mean reconnect to the service, yes.
[16:01] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: true, it may be the case
[16:01] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: nono, I meant to the server. connect + auth
[16:01] <mkarnicki> "cold" connect takes up to 5-7 seconds
[16:02] <CardinalFang_> Wow.
[16:02] <mkarnicki> when you connect second or third time, it's somewhat faster
[16:02] <CardinalFang_> That seems long.
[16:02] <mkarnicki> let me verify (note: on HSDPA)
[16:02] <CardinalFang_> Is it expensive on the phone end, or data latency, or server?
[16:03] <mkarnicki> crap.. I can't check right now, I'm during development. umm, it's authentication
[16:03] <mkarnicki> I'm not sure what takes so long, but I see small allocations and GC kicking in
[16:03] <mkarnicki> when U1Client performs .authenticate()
[16:04] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang_: month or two ago it was 40 seconds, now it dropped to 4-5 seconds
[16:07] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: month or two ago it was 40 seconds, now it dropped to 4-5 seconds
[16:14] <verterok> mkarnicki: we should use protobuf lite, I have started a branch of u1-java-storageprotocol to use protobuf-lite instead of standard protobuf, it should reduce client side processing and memory usage
[16:14] <mkarnicki> verterok: coooool =)
[16:15] <mkarnicki> verterok: it's 10 AM at your place, isn't it? you're home :)?
[16:15] <dobey> not quite
[16:15] <dobey> more like 1 pm
[16:15] <verterok> mkarnicki: 12:15 PM
[16:16] <mkarnicki> we where close ;)
[16:16] <mkarnicki> aha, so it's -5hrs, not -7
[16:16] <mkarnicki> (from my place)
[16:17] <dobey> ah
[16:18] <dobey> AR has weird DST changes :P
[16:19] <verterok> dobey: indeed, but only some years...this year no DST change :p
[16:19] <dobey> exactly. it's weird :P
[16:20] <dobey> anyway, lunch time it is :)
[16:24] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: operation of going into a folder (by tapping it on the list) also needs communication with the client (thus service), even if the content was cached it should be refreshed. on that end, isn't it an overkill to communicate with a service for a simple "hey, fetch that folder and update me ASAP!"? that's why I had doubts about the service (though I knew it had other advantages)
[16:25] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: please tell me what you think. that IPC shouldn't be a terribly visible overhead, right?
[16:28] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, I wouldn't block on it.  Display what you have from before, and ask service for updates, and when the service returns info, use the new info to update the view again.
[16:28] <mkarnicki> ok, but if the directory hasn't been cached before, shouldn't I pop a "loading" dialog? just a toast?
[16:29] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: ^
[16:30] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: but what you wrote is almost right - *if* I have it cached, I display, ask service for update - Service updates ContentProvicer, ContentProvider updates the ListView
[16:31] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, not toast, probably.  A special line with update spinner in it.
[16:31] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: ahaaaa!! right!
[16:31] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: the indeterminate spinner at the top right
[16:32] <mkarnicki> I forgot about that, though I have it in the code already xD
[16:32] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: great, thanks for hints :)
[16:32] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, hrm, can one update the provider in another process and see the results in this process?  I didn't think so, but I may be nuts.
[16:32] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: if you call on... what was it..
[16:33] <mkarnicki> onDataChage... umm.. something like that. then the ContentProvider will update the cursors, if they have registered obervers on their uri's
[16:33] <mkarnicki> let me check what was it
[16:35] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, right, good.
[16:36] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: getContext().getContentResolver().notifyChange(modifiedUri, null);
[16:37] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: this should be called after insert, update and delete operations on contentProviders, so that observers can update. so the listview will update for free ;)
[16:38] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, rock.
[16:38] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: thanks! thanks for invaluable talk
[16:38] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, I don't understand how it works, so I just forget that it exists or pretend it can't possibly work.
[16:39] <CardinalFang> it = contentprovider updates between processes.
[16:39] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: sure :)
[16:39] <mkarnicki> uhum
[16:40] <CardinalFang> mkarnicki, I hope this helps.  I'll be here if you think I can help somehow.
[16:40] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: great!! :)
[16:42] <CardinalFang> okay, lunch.  back in a bit.
[16:45] <Atluxity> why didnt UbuntuOne sync my printers? isnt that a feature?
[16:47] <duanedesign> Atluxity: no it syncs files in your Ubuntu oNe folder. Contacts from Evolution and Notes from tomboy.
[17:08] <JoachimR> how do you sync Notes from TomBoy with UbuntuOne ?
[17:13] <dnielsen> JoachimR, settings->synhronization->tomboy-web and voila
[17:13] <JoachimR> dnielsen, my Tomboy seems to be locked on "Folder" syncing.
[17:14] <JoachimR> Do I need to click the "delete" button ?
[17:15] <dnielsen> is the sync every x mins box ticked?
[17:15] <JoachimR> no, but the "service" choicelist is locked
[17:16] <JoachimR> now ticked, nothing new...
[17:17] <dnielsen> hrmm it should just work, I would perhaps ask the tomboy guys
[17:17] <dnielsen> #tomboy on gimpnet
[17:18] <JoachimR> Ok found it, the dangerous-looking "delete" button erases only suync preferences, so now the choicelist is unlocked
[17:18] <JoachimR> thx
[17:23] <dnielsen> JoachimR, if it seems dangerous, it's probably a papercut bug. Software shouldn't be scary
[17:59] <duanedesign> JoachimR: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Notes
[20:44] <Dante_> Hey alll, got a bit of a problem here; I just installed ubuntu on a second machine and it's not asking to connect an account, just dumps me right at the accounts page and dosent try and authenticate and sync...
[20:46] <Dante_> Anyone know how to reauthenticate with Ubuntu One?
[20:46] <Dante_> Or at least manually do so?
[20:48] <Dante_> Anyone?
[22:11] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: I should communicate back to the client using Broadcasts or is there anything faster?
[22:12] <mkarnicki> CardinalFang: ignore my question, sorry.
[23:01] <mkarnicki> verterok: what does getRoot() Deferred return? It's a String. Is it the root node identifier?
[23:02] <mkarnicki> verterok: don't be surprized by easy question, I'm trying to connect newly written Service and the android application ;)
[23:21] <verterok> mkarnicki: it's the node_id of the root node, in the case of the desktop client (a.k.a syncdaemon) si the node_id of ~/Ubuntu One directory
[23:21] <mkarnicki> verterok: great, thanks!
[23:22] <lordbah> I'm trying out the music store. I can see via web browser songs are in my cloud now. But I have no ~/.ubuntuone directory on my system, which is apparently where they are supposed to sync to.
[23:23] <beuno> lordbah, they sync to ~.local/share/ubuntuone/Purchased\ from\ Ubuntu\ One
[23:23] <beuno> you should see them in rhythmbox
[23:24] <lordbah> I have .local/share/ubuntuone, but within that there is not a Purchased* directory. Only shares and syncdaemon.
[23:24] <lordbah> I don't run rhythmbox, I run banshee.
[23:24] <verterok> beuno: I think it's ~/.ubuntuone/Purchased...
[23:25] <lordbah> verterok: I don't have a ~/.ubuntuone.
[23:25] <verterok> lordbah: hi :)
[23:25] <verterok> lordbah: please run this command in terminal: u1sdtool --status
[23:25] <beuno> verterok, you are right, they are symlinks
[23:25] <verterok> lordbah: and pastebin the output to pastebin.ubuntu.com or other pastebin service
[23:25] <lordbah> State: QUEUE_MANAGER
[23:26] <lordbah>     connection: With User With Network
[23:26] <lordbah>     description: processing queues
[23:26] <lordbah>     is_connected: True
[23:26] <lordbah>     is_error: False
[23:26] <lordbah>     is_online: True
[23:26] <lordbah>     queues: IDLE
[23:26] <verterok> lordbah: ok, the client is running, that's good :)
[23:26] <verterok> lordbah: now, please execute: u1sdtool --list-folders
[23:26] <lordbah> sorry didn't catch the pastebin part. Next time ...
[23:26] <verterok> lordbah: yes, np
[23:27] <lordbah> list-folders shows only ~/Cloud which is a folder I manually told to sync from nautilus.
[23:27] <verterok> lordbah: ok
[23:28] <lordbah> So something in the setup forgot to mkdir this folder?
[23:28] <verterok> lordbah: I don't think so, I think the folder is created by the music store plugin
[23:30] <verterok> lordbah: execute this: dbus-send --session --print-reply  --dest=com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon --type=method_call /folders com.ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Folders.refresh_volumes
[23:30] <verterok> to force a refresh of the folders list
[23:31] <lordbah> list-folders still shows only Cloud
[23:31] <verterok> lordbah: and after that: usdtool --status && u1sdtool --waiting-metadata
[23:32] <lordbah> WORKING_ON_BOTH and a dozen lines of just the word "Query".
[23:33] <verterok> lordbah: ok, the client started to work on the sync
[23:33] <lordbah> WORKING_ON_CONTENT
[23:33] <verterok> lordbah: u1sdtool --current-transfers will show you the current files being up/downloaded
[23:33] <verterok> lordbah: and u1sdtool --waiting-content
[23:33] <lordbah> and now list-folders shows ~/.ubuntuone/Purchased...
[23:33] <verterok> will show you the files to upload/download
[23:34] <lordbah> Indeed it does.
[23:34] <verterok> lordbah: ok, that's good! :)
[23:35] <lordbah> The banshee plugin now shows useful stuff under My Downloads as well (download progress rather than just "Queued" as it had before).
[23:36] <lordbah> Should we do something to get that dbus-send command into a FAQ or something?
[23:37] <verterok> lordbah: it's u1sdtool --refresh-volumes
[23:37] <verterok> lordbah: I think it's available in the ubuntuone-client @ lucid-updates
[23:37] <verterok> and via the ppa
[23:38] <lordbah> err, what is available there?
[23:38] <verterok> lordbah: the dbus-send command, is bundled into u1sdtool as the --refresh-volumes option
[23:38] <verterok> lordbah: u1sdtool is part of th ubuntuone-client package
[23:38] <lordbah> Okay, but nothing I found in a FAQ caused me to run it.
[23:39] <lordbah> Thus I had to come here and bother you good people.
[23:39] <verterok> lordbah: ideally you shouldn't need to run the command, but sure it can be added to the FAQ
[23:40] <verterok> lordbah: eventually the server would notify the client about the Purchased folder and it will start downloading
[23:40] <verterok> but it seems that the server is under load (just guessing)
[23:42] <lordbah> Maybe. This morning I was browsing and added stuff to the basket and went to checkout and it got stuck "Connecting to music store...". 8 hours later it was stuck in the same place. Had to kill banshee since there was no reload button or anything similar. Have to say, amazon has never done that to me. Started back up, and my basket was empty - amazon has never done that to me either. So maybe it is overloaded.
[23:42] <mario-kemper> hi there, is there any way to obtain the version number of the u1 syncdeamon via DBus API
[23:43] <verterok> mario-kemper: hi
[23:43] <verterok> mario-kemper: the short answer is no :(
[23:43] <verterok> mario-kemper: why do you need the version? :)
[23:44] <mario-kemper> well, older versions do not provide the publishing api, right?
[23:44] <verterok> right
[23:44] <mario-kemper> when I try to get that object my app quits...
[23:44] <verterok> mario-kemper: you can instrospect that via dbus, I know that having a version might be simpler :)
[23:44] <mario-kemper> so I was wondering if I could check the version in that case
[23:45]  * verterok looks for the snippet to do that
[23:45] <mario-kemper> mh, ok