=== pgraner-afk is now known as pgraner
grafite_xhello ... does anyone know if there is a program or api that i can use to structure plain text?01:23
grafite_xlike if i have a tree like structure that i want to lay out in plain text, but dont want to bother with the spacing and placement of the edges and nodes01:24
grafite_xis there something that would take care of that?01:24
penguin42what do you want the output to look like and what does your input look like?01:48
=== abhi_nav_ is now known as abhi_nav
=== Ddorda1 is now known as Ddorda
=== abhi_nav_ is now known as abhi_nav
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== abhi_nav is now known as abhijit
=== abhijit is now known as abhijit_
=== abhijit_ is now known as abhijit__
=== abhijit__ is now known as abhijit
=== abhijit is now known as abhi_nav
=== abhi_nav is now known as Guest16004
=== Guest16004 is now known as abhi_nav_
=== abhi_nav_ is now known as abhijit
=== abhijit is now known as abhi_nav
=== abhi_nav is now known as abhijit
=== abhijit is now known as abhijit_
=== abhijit_ is now known as abhijit
=== abhijit is now known as abhijit__
=== abhijit__ is now known as abhijit
=== eminor2 is now known as eminor
=== mohi1 is now known as Mohan_chml
=== pjarnahomzz is now known as pjarnahom
=== gamerchick02 is now known as gamerchick02-awa
=== gamerchick02-awa is now known as gamerchick02
dholbachalright my friends - are you ready for day 4 of Ubuntu Developer Week?16:55
dholbachif you're here today for the very first time, please also join #ubuntu-classroom-chat (yes, lernid does that for you automatically)16:55
dholbachit's the best place to ask questions and chat to other people while the session is going on16:55
dholbachand please prefix your questions with QUESTION: so the host of the session can pick them up easily16:56
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek has the schedule of today and I promise you a lot of fun with the great speakers we have here16:56
dholbachfirst up is didrocks16:57
dholbachMonsieur Roche, comment ça va?16:57
didrocksça va très bien daniel :)16:57
didrocksso, as requested by Mr Holbach, the session will be in French16:57
didrockskidding :)16:57
=== abhijit_ is now known as abhijit
dholbachthat was the obvious answer of a member of the French mafia :)16:58
* didrocks is eager to see #ubuntu-devel in french :)16:58
didrocksnext jump will be UDS!16:58
dholbachyou still have 2 minutes to get a cold or hot beverage - enjoy day 4 of UDW :)16:58
dholbachdidrocks: the stage is yours :)17:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: Create An Application For Ubuntu With Quickly - Instructor: didrocks
didrocksgreat! thanks dholbach17:00
didrocksso, some quick words of presentation first17:01
didrocksmy name is Didier Roche, I'm working in the ubuntu desktop team on updating GNOME and UNE (Ubuntu Netbook Edition)17:01
didrocksalso, as a spare time project with Rick Spencer, I'm hacking on Quickly17:01
didrocksfirst question will be from me :) who knows about Quickly? (please answer on -chat)17:02
didrocksgood, the session will be useful so :)17:02
didrocksa lot of people having no idea what is it17:02
didrocksSo, few words about it17:02
didrocksQuickly is to bring back fun in development17:03
didrocksRick, the person who created the Quickly idea, call it, among other things, an "Application Templating System"17:03
didrocksthe essence of the project is to provide you boiler plate for the kind of program you want to write17:03
didrocksso the code that you would have to write for every program of a certain type gets generated for you17:03
didrocksthat part is called the "boiler plate"17:04
didrockswe have different boiler plates right now:17:04
didrocksubuntu-application, ubuntu-cli and ubuntu-pygame in lucid17:04
didrocksbut Quickly is also a set of commands17:04
didrocksthe commands are designed to integrate with the Ubuntu Application infrastructure17:05
didrocksthinks like bzr, launchpad, PPAs, etc..17:05
didrocksand the commands are what make all that work17:05
didrocksThe moto of Quickly is "Easy and Fun"17:05
didrockswhile I'll answer to the first set of questions, you can install it (not mandatory to follow the session): sudo apt-get install quickly17:05
didrocksQUESTION: Is quickly and IDE?17:06
didrocksno, it's not, it's a Command Line tools, that brings a lot of love17:06
didrocksthe core of Quickly brings advanced shell completion, it will suggest you everytime what to do17:06
didrocksthere is a Quickly API, (in trunk only right now), so if people want to integrate if with any IDE, go go go :)17:06
didrocksQUESTION: Is it a code generator or is it more like a To-do list?17:07
didrocksit's generate a boiler plate of code17:07
didrocksbut then, don't touch it17:07
didrockslet me find a screenshot of what the ubuntu-application template generates for you17:07
didrocksthis is what you get after the first "create" command17:08
didrocksyou can then modify it to a wide range of applications, there is no more action on the code itself17:08
didrocksQUESTION: Quickly will be ported to other distros???17:09
didrocksapplications created with Quickly should work with any distros17:09
didrocksthere is no dependency on Quickly itself (it's not a framework)17:09
didrocksQuickly itself is being packaged in fedora and gento17:09
didrockswe are waiting for templates for them so :)17:09
didrocksQUESTION: Will quickly create MeeGo/Maemo buildable programs?17:10
didrockssee above, you just need a template for that :)17:10
didrocksQUESTION: How does Quickly differ from Acire/python- nippets?17:10
didrockswell, acire is writtent with Quickly :)17:10
didrocksalso, some of you may use Lernid17:10
didrocksthis is another Quickly app17:10
didrocksso, you can see that Quickly can enables you to create a lot of different apps for different purpose17:11
didrocksQUESTION: is quickly a ubuntu project or third party project?17:11
didrocksas of today, the Quickly devs (mostly me, Rick making awesome work on Quickly-Widgets I'll talk about later), uses ubuntu17:12
didrocksso, we develop templates for ubuntu first17:12
didrocksbut, the project is really template oriented17:12
didrocksthat means, you have no requirement to use python, or ubuntu17:12
didrocksI'll go on and answer remaining questions then :)17:12
didrocksso, as some of you have seen, Quickly brings a lot of tools, so downloading can take a while17:13
didrocksNote that the current version is 0.4.3 on lucid17:13
didrocks0.4 brings a lot of news over 0.2, you can see that in previous ubuntu devweek sessions17:13
didrocksthe rest of the class will be in 4 parts:17:14
didrocksCreating your app17:14
didrocksEditing the UI17:14
didrocksWriting Code17:14
didrocksPackaging and PPAs17:14
didrocks(so, to answer a question, yes, Quickly creates packages)17:14
didrocksso, creating an app17:15
didrocksthis is a single command, $ quickly create ubuntu-application <project_name>17:15
didrocks(for ubuntu-cli, replace ubuntu-application by ubuntu-cli, for ubuntu-pygame, … you understand :))17:15
didrockswe support hyphen, spaces and a lot of fun in project_name17:16
didrocksyou can see that Quickly run the application for you17:16
didrocksso, you already have a complete application ready !17:16
didrocksnot really fancy, but you have preferences integrations, menus, about box, easter eggs :)17:16
didrocksall what an application need!17:16
didrocks(of course, wait for Quickly to be installed to run the command)17:17
didrocksso, Quickly created a folder for you17:17
didrocksyou can cd into it17:17
didrocksthere, if you use tabulation, you should see that you have access to a lot of commands now17:17
didrocksI won't enter and details all of them17:18
didrocksthe most important is… testing!17:18
didrocksquickly run will launch your application17:18
didrocksthen, edit the code:17:18
didrocksquickly edit17:18
didrocksthis will launch gedit and open all your development files there17:19
didrocksthere, you can remove what you want (like the preferences code), and tweak from the default17:19
didrocksso, Quickly is opinionated choices17:19
didrocksthose choices are made by the template17:19
didrocksfor instance, in the ubuntu-application template, you have:17:19
didrocks- python as a language to develop in17:19
didrocks- glade for editing the GUI17:19
didrocks- gedit as default editor (you can override this by exporting the EDITOR variable)17:20
didrocks- pygtk for the toolkit17:20
didrocks- desktopcouch for storing persistent data17:20
didrocks- launchpad integration17:20
didrocksall is chosen for helping you starting with your app17:20
didrocksthen, if you are confident enough and know what you need, you can remove each block you don't want and replace by yours17:21
didrocksor create your own template even!17:21
didrocksalucardni | didrocks: you missed bzr for version control ;-)17:21
didrocksof course bzr :)17:21
didrocksthe idea is really to drive development and help opportunistic developer to know "where to start"17:22
didrocksrather than beeing lost in choices17:22
didrocksfor helping starting development too, we have a tutorial:17:22
didrocksquickly tutorial17:22
didrocksthat will fire up yelp to have a step by step app to develop17:23
didrocksand I heard that an "ubuntu developer manual" is on the way17:23
didrockslet's move on, I see some questions, but nothing related to that :)17:23
didrocksso, editing the UI.17:23
didrocksas told previously, we use glade for that in the ubuntu-application template17:24
didrocksto fire it up, just use quickly design17:24
didrocksglade is really awesome for editing a GUI graphically17:24
didrocksand really integrates in a easy way with python too17:24
didrocksQUESTION: what is glade?  a short intro about it, please?17:24
didrocksglade is a tool for building gtk-based UI17:25
didrockslet me find a screenshot17:25
didrocksyou choose your components and draw them on the application area17:25
didrocksthe quickly tutorial explains the basic of this17:25
didrocksin fact, Glade is a UI editing tool, that creates the XML you need to describe your windows and widgets17:26
didrocksdon't worry because the quickly template totally handles keeping the code and the XML hooked up17:26
didrocksif others templates, like kubuntu comes, we assume it won't use glade, obviously :)17:26
didrockshence the "design" command to launch it17:27
didrocksso here are some tips for using Glade if you are new to Glade17:27
didrocksfirst, adding widgets works like a fill tool17:27
didrocksyou click the widget you want in the toolbox, and then click where you want it to be on the window17:27
didrocksthe widgets will then fill the space alloted to it17:27
didrocksto layout the form, you use HBoxes and VBoxes17:27
didrocksan HBox handles Horizontal layout, and a VBox handles vertical17:28
didrocksso you will find yourself putting lots of boxes within boxes17:28
didrockswhen you add a widget to a window, you can select it in the "inspector" tree if it is hard to select in the window itself'17:28
didrocksboxes can be hard to select in the window, for example17:28
didrocksif a widget is in a box, use the position property in the "Property editor" window in the "packing" tab to change the order17:28
didrocksyou can also set the pack type to start or end to change the order17:29
didrocksFill and Expand control sizing17:29
didrockswhile Border and Padding control spacing17:29
didrockswhenever possible, you should use "Stock" widgets17:29
didrocksthey get translated, the right icons, etc... automatically17:29
didrocksfinally, if you want to add a dialog to your project:17:29
didrocks1. close glade17:29
didrocks2. run: quickly add dialog <dialog_name>17:30
didrocks3. quickly glade17:30
didrocksquickly design :)17:30
didrocksquickly glade was in previous version of Quickly17:30
didrocksthis way, Quickly helps you to ship all files to get access to the new window17:30
didrocksof course, your code can have bugs17:31
didrockswhat's best for debugging than a debugging tool where you can see variable values and such, step by step?17:31
didrocksQuickly uses winpdb for that. Just run "quickly debug" and you can add breakpoints and such17:31
didrocksok, let's say you are happy with your project17:32
didrocksnow, you want to share with someone, or even release?17:32
didrockslet's say you want to release your first version17:32
didrocksit's pretty easy, just:17:33
didrocks$ quickly release17:33
didrocksthis will version your release to YY.MM (the ubuntu way of marking an ubuntu version)17:33
=== dark is now known as Guest88529
didrocksyou will be asked to bind with a Launchpad project you created17:33
didrocksit will licence all your files (default is GPLV3 if you didn't run quickly licence by hand before)17:34
didrocksit will tag your release, change evertything for your, drop the COPYING files to get a well licensed project17:34
didrockspush your code to launchpad17:34
didrocksalso, the about box will contain the version of the current release, the credit, the copyright, the url to the project17:34
didrocksfor instance17:35
didrocksand all that for free! No need to maintain it manually17:35
didrocksin addition to that, it will create an ubuntu package17:35
didrocksdetecting all dependencies for you17:35
didrockswill collect all your "quicky save" messages (quickly save is to take snapshot of your code. For those you know, it triggers a bzr commit)17:36
didrocksit will upload your package to launchpad, in a ppa for people trying our your application17:36
didrocksit will also upload your upstream tarball, sign it, push it to launchpad, and make an annoucement with your changes annoucement17:37
didrocksdotblank | QUESTION: Does quickly walk you through steps with gpg?17:37
didrocksif you don't have a gpg key already, Quickly will help you to create one17:37
didrocks(same for ssh)17:37
didrocksit won't upload it to launchpad yet, we are working with Launchpad guys to get that integrated nicely17:37
didrocksin any case, it will tell you before uploading if something got wrong :)17:38
didrocksQUESTION: is it possible to change the way of versioning e.g. to 0.0.1 as fist build?17:38
didrocksjust run quickly release 0.0.117:38
didrocksthen, you have to specify manually at each release the version number17:38
didrocksbut YY.MM is really the short approach and avoid a lot of collision :)17:39
didrocksso, in a nutshell, in two commands:17:39
didrocksquickly create ubuntu-application foo17:39
didrocksquickly release17:39
didrocksI have a licenced project, pushed to launchpad, with tarballs, announces and ubuntu package to share to the world!17:39
didrockssometimes, you maybe want to get some testing17:40
didrocksand not release really to get people testing this17:40
didrocksfor local testing, you can use:17:40
didrocksquickly package17:40
didrocksthis will create a package in your directory that you can install17:40
didrocksfor sharing in a ppa, use instead: quickly share17:40
didrocksthis won't change anything, won't licence your project, won't upload tarball17:41
didrocksbut at least, you can get some testing :)17:41
didrocksQUESTION: does quickly package (version here) also work in order to force a version?17:41
didrocksof course, but think that you can't upload to your ppa a version with a lower version than previous upload17:41
didrocksyou will see that there are a lot of other commands to manipulate your project17:42
didrockslike quickly configure to configure the ppa you want to upload, the bzr branch where you want to push/pull, additional dependencies that you want to add…17:42
didrocksif you use shell completion on license, you will see that we support a wide range of licence too. Adding a new one (or a custom is really easy)17:43
didrockslast part I want to discuss is Quickly widgets before taking the bunch of pending questions :)17:43
didrocksso, quickly widgets are widgets that help you to make your life easy17:43
didrockscontrary to Quickly, this is for python only17:44
didrocksin one line of code, you can show a dialog asking for a question and get the answer17:44
didrocksthis is generally taking 6-8 lines of codes17:44
didrocksin 5 lines, you can get a CouchGrid17:44
didrocksyou can imagine that as a tabular, where you can store persistent information, synchronised between your use (using couchdb)17:45
didrocksit will detect for you the type of your column, you can add a filter in two lines, and such17:45
didrocksthis is really really great stuff and avoiding copying 50-60 lines from random websites17:46
didrocksquickly-widgets come with a lot of widget17:46
didrocksQUESTION: Where can we find information about Quiqly-widgets (couch-grid etc)?17:46
didrocksas Rick is the main developer, you can find a lot of fun videos over the web17:46
didrockshttp://theravingrick.blogspot.com/ is your central info place17:47
didrocksok, taking questions now :)17:47
didrockslet me a second to take them one by one17:47
didrocksQUESTION: Say I don't need the preferences dialog in my project can I delete it from the project?17:48
didrocksexactly, as told previously, you can remove any part of the code you don't want really easily17:48
didrocksthis is mainly for the preferences dialog removing a file and call to it17:48
didrocksQUESTION: Is template creation difficult?17:48
didrocksnot at all, I've even written a tutorial on that17:48
didrocksone sec17:48
didrocksin general this set of 9 blog posts give you everything you need to know about Quickly http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Build-your-application-quickly-with-Quickly%3A-part117:50
didrocksbut this was about Quickly 0.2, we have 0.4.X now17:50
didrocksso I wrote some updates: http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Quickly-0.4-available-in-lucid%2117:50
didrocksif you want to build a template upon an existing template17:50
ClassBotThere are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:50
didrockslike ubuntu-cli sharing a lot in common with ubuntu-application17:50
didrocksyour can import commands between template17:50
didrocksfor instance, ubuntu-cli is really 0 line of code!17:51
didrocksI just import every commands I need from ubuntu-application template17:51
didrocks(apart from design which makes no sense for a command line application), and add dialog17:51
didrocksso, it's really easy to create a template :)17:51
didrocksyou can even wrote you template in perl with some C boiler plate if you want some fun17:52
didrocksQuickly is language agnostic17:52
didrocksthat comes to the question:17:52
didrocksQUESTION: what is the difference between gambas and quickly?17:52
didrocksgambas is (AFAIK), really binded with python17:52
didrocksQuickly is written in python but template can be whatever you want17:52
didrocksalso gambas doesn't handle packaging and such17:53
didrocksQuickly is really "helping your developping your project from start to the end"17:53
didrocksQUESTION: Can quickly use existing source code?17:53
didrockssure, bughugger, another quickly project wasn't written for Quickly first17:53
didrocksbut migrate it to Quickly took half an hour approximately17:54
didrocksit's just moving files in the right folder and add some glue17:54
didrocksyou won't get automatically launchpad integration for instance17:54
didrocks(when you release your project with Quickly, project get integration like "Help on/Report a bug" in the help menu)17:54
didrocksbut you will get all the rest for free, which is already a lot :)17:55
didrocksQUESTION: How hard is it to remove the couchdb support from the template?17:55
didrocksI would say it's basically removing the preferences dialog17:55
ClassBotThere are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:55
didrocksso, not hard at all :)17:55
didrocksQUESTION: we CAN create templates for templates then?17:55
didrockssure, I don't see the point as quickly quickly <origin_template> <dest_template> already help you to create subtemplates17:56
didrocksit's copying to ~/quickly-templates all what you need17:56
didrocksI think that's it for question. If I forget some, yell17:56
didrocksin the remaining times, some links:17:57
didrocks- so, the blog post I posted before http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Build-your-application-quickly-with-Quickly%3A-part1 and http://blog.didrocks.fr/index.php/post/Quickly-0.4-available-in-lucid%21)17:57
didrocks- https://launchpad.net/quickly of course17:57
didrocks- #quickly on freenode for support and development on Quickly17:57
didrocksalso, some reviews on 0.2 version:17:58
didrocks- http://lwn.net/Articles/351522/17:58
didrocks- http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/08/quickly-new-rails-like-rapid-development-tools-for-ubuntu.ars17:58
didrocks- http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/canonical_releases_quickly_framework_speed_linux_app_development17:58
didrockswe got some good contributions and I want to thank everyone helping to make Quickly better17:58
didrocks(approximately 10 different people have contributed to the code so far, it's already a lot!)17:58
didrockshope that you can join, we don't bite and share the fun developping :)17:59
didrocksI guess now, it's vish's who will explain you how to help Ubuntu in a night!17:59
vishthanks didrocks!17:59
didrockstake it away vish :)17:59
vishHope everyone enjoyed the Quickly session from the always amazing didrocks!18:00
vishNever an easy task following didrocks! ;-)18:00
didrocksvish: don't say that :-)18:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: Improving Ubuntu In An Evening - Instructor: vish
vishHi everyone, I'm Vishnoo and I'm here to talk about how to improve Ubuntu in an evening .18:01
vishI hope you are enjoying UDW and learning a lot.18:01
vishOften when we introduce Ubuntu to someone and they are developers, they are surprised by Ubuntu being a community project and that they can get involved !18:01
vishOne of the first things a new Ubuntu developer wants to know is how they can help and make a difference in Ubuntu OS.18:02
vishOften the quickest, easiest way  to do this is Hundred Papercuts Project18:02
vishI will begin by giving a little bit of background information about the HundredPapercuts project, and why you should know + care about this project. :)18:02
vishas always , please feel free to ask questions as you see fit , if you have questions as we go, ask on #ubuntu-classroom-chat   by prefacing them with QUESTION:18:03
vishSo... for Karmic, the Ayatana Project together with the Canonical Design Team focused on identifying some of the “paper cuts” affecting user experience within Ubuntu.18:03
vishWhich we continued for Lucid and are doing it again for Maverick!18:04
vishYou maybe wondering what a papercut bug is?18:05
vishBriefly put, A papercut is:18:05
vish"a bug that will improve user experience if fixed,18:05
vish is small enough for users to become habituated to it,18:05
vish and is trivial to fix."18:05
ClassBotabhijit asked: can be do papercut for my lucid or I need to do it only for next proposed release?18:06
vishabhijit: we usually fix for the next development release18:06
vishthe changes are string changes or UI changes which we cannot do after a UIF18:06
vishabhijit: UIF == User Interface Freeze18:07
vishok.. carrying on.. ;)18:07
vishA paper cut is a bug that the average user would encounter on his/her first day of using a brand new installation of Ubuntu Desktop Edition (and Kubuntu too!).18:08
vishYou can find a more detailed definition at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCut18:08
vishTraditionally the goal is fixing 100 bugs per cycle!18:08
vish[which includes 10 Kubuntu bugs , why 10 for Kubuntu? Well , it  has a smaller team and as kubuntu folks like to put it, "KDE's already awesome!" ;p ]18:08
vishThe ayatana project convenes in #ayatana, so if you stop by there, you'll likely be able to jump right into a papercut discussion.18:09
vishNow for a few examples which have been fixed in the past year:18:09
vishHave a look at : http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2964/compiz.jpg18:09
vishWhat do you see wrong about that image?18:09
vishany guesses?18:10
vishmatttbe: getting closer..18:10
vishmatttbe: right!18:11
* vish throws virtual candy to matttbe :)18:11
vishNow have a look at : http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3686/metacitycompositor.jpg18:11
vishcan everyone spot the difference , now?18:11
vishSc10: exactly! these are things users often dont notice18:12
vishWhen you are working on something, the active window has to be on top and not the panel. When the window is on top it should not have a shadow on it!18:12
vishThat was fixed as part of the papercuts.18:12
vishAnother example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/38894918:13
vishThis fix will be released for Maverick18:13
vishOn the desktop if you right click  , you will see an option 'Clean Up by Name'18:13
vishIf you were/are a windows user you'd probably recall an option "Desktop Clean Up wizard" ?18:14
vishNow since the names are too similar a new user will often confuse the functions.18:14
vishIt has now been re-named to  "Organize Desktop by Name"18:14
vishThat was a simple bug right? all it needed was a renaming of an existing function!18:15
vishwant more examples? ;)18:15
vishmoving on..18:16
vishsaji89: yes simple changes18:16
vishNow, why should you care about these trivial bugs?18:16
vishIf you are new to Ubuntu and eager to start working on Ubuntu ,18:17
vishthis is the best way to get started!18:17
vishthe bugs are simple changes18:17
vishhelps you get familiar with the coding practices followed and gets you ready for handling bigger bugs in the packages.18:18
vishit takes you just a day to make the impact!18:18
vishAnd the change you make will be in the *default* install of the next release!18:18
vishThis is a very rare opportunity for a new member , to make changes in a default install.18:18
vish <saji89> asked : So, how do we know where the specific change is to be made?18:19
vishsaji89: the bugs will be filed in the applications , you need to dig into the source and just change it18:20
vishNow , not that this is only for new members . ;)18:20
vishAnyone can fix a papercut , all one needs to think is "what can I improve in Ubuntu today?" Head over to the triaged list of papercuts and submit fixes!18:20
vishSounds simple right?18:21
vishNow let's getting into how to fix these bugs:18:21
vish <saji89> asked : So, This digging into source invloves BZR, and such things isn't it?18:22
vishsaji89: if its an Ubuntu specific bug , then yes , you need to bzr branch the Ubuntu branch and submit a merge18:23
vishsaji89: if its an upstream Gnome-bug then patches for the git code would be the best way18:23
vishsaji89: similarly debian == submit patch to debian  :)18:24
vishNow let's getting into how to fix these bugs:18:25
vishThis is the schedule for maverick https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/maverick18:25
vishThe 100 paper cuts planned for Maverick are split into 10 milestones or "rounds" as we have been calling them,18:25
vishor even "themes"18:25
vish these milestones are like themes so that it is easier for a developer , who is say.. interested in Nautilus to find those related bugs and fix them.18:25
vishhas everyone seen the scheduled list ?18:26
vishNow, the milestones are not hard deadlines, so don't worry that all of the bugs are not fixed yet.18:27
vishWell, maybe worry a little bit ;)18:27
vishAnd head over to the list of triaged bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED18:28
vish <mythos> asked: so we take a bug and hope, that it is easy to fix?18:28
vishmythos: there is not a question of hoping here , the bugs are usually trivial..18:29
vishas i showed examples earlier , the changes are trivial18:29
vishoften in the rush for new features , developers for the little things18:30
vishmythos:  We have what is called the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines :18:30
vishOften there are certain areas in an application which dont follow those guidelines, ex: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/59266118:30
vishas you can see in that bug , the menu item "File" should not exist18:31
vishsince it is a photo manager , it should be a Photo menu18:31
vishmythos: so , there is no hoping.. are we clear on that .. the fixes are trivial  :)18:31
vishwell , most of the time.. ;)18:32
vishif it turns out to be too large a problem we have often closed bugs..18:32
vishalrighty.. continuing from the triaged list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED18:33
vishas you can see there are a hundred odd bugs still waiting.18:34
vishSee any bug that interests you?18:34
vishIf you are truly committed to fixing it, you can assign it to yourself .18:35
vishAfter assigning it to yourself, read the launchpad bug report and any upstream reports.18:35
vishThen ask yourself, what does this paper cut need before it can be considered fixed?18:35
vishMake a list, then start addressing those work items.18:36
vishdont forget to Mark the bug as "In Progress"18:36
vish <chilicuil> asked : so, does it really matter to use bzr?, or can I just upload a debdiff?18:36
vishchilicuil: as i mentioned earlier , if the bug is Ubuntu specific , then a branch will do. else debdiff18:37
vish <saji89> asked: So, when we are in need of some help, ehich irc channel shall we contact?18:37
=== pjarnahom is now known as pjarnahomzz
vishsaji89: #ubuntu-bugs, #ubuntu-motu, #ubuntu-desktop on IRC. Or just add a comment on the bug. That works too.18:38
vishsaji89: thats if you need assistance in fixing the bugs..18:38
vishalso , a18:39
vish#ayatana of course18:39
vishsaji89: the Ayatana Mailing list might be used as well , you you want to discuss the suggested design solution18:40
vishnow , if you look at : https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/maverick-round-9-sc-metadata18:41
vishyou can see the bugs there are just about updating the descriptions18:42
vishmythos: thats simple right? :)18:42
vishwe just need to make a patch to fix these bugs once they have patches with the appropriate description ,  these have to be sent upstream to debian as well18:43
vishsince it is easier for the debian maintainers when we have the patches with an appropriate description18:44
vishIf any of you attended the shadeslayer's Packaging like a Ninja session, or pedro_ and nigel's patch forwarding sessions you are in a great position to help with paper cuts .18:44
vishIf there is anyone in attendance interested in fixing a paper cut for Maverick. I encourage you to join #ayatana .18:45
vishAlso, pick one of the remaining paper cuts and claim it! Check on its status upstream.18:46
vishIf it needs a patch, create one. Update the patch if necessary!18:46
vishAs i mentioned earlier , these are trivial issues and fixing them gives an OS a polished feel. We need to fix these and there are several such issues which can be addressed.18:47
vishWe want everyone to enjoy Ubuntu as much as this guy > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-Q_8EbB8A&feature=related18:47
vishWe need to make more people go "Oh! Ubuntu!" ;)18:48
vishOften there is one problem on papercut bugs! , too many suggestions!18:49
vishthe bug is reported, a simple solution is proposed, someone begins working on a fix, then a new person joins the discussion and says "what if we create a new keyboard shortcut?"18:49
vishThen a bunch of other people chime in with "+1".18:49
vishAnd the existence of the alternate suggestion confuses whoever is working on the bug because they lose confidence in the first solution.18:50
vishThe bottom line is, there will almost always be more than one way to fix a paper cut.18:50
ClassBotThere are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.18:50
vishAnd people will always jump in the discussion and propose an alternative approach. In the case of paper cuts, it's often best to take the simplest solution.18:51
vishRemember, the goal is to improve user experience in subtle ways, not to find the perfect solutions to these problems.18:51
vishOften times, paper cuts don't get fixed because endless discussion of minutia.18:52
ClassBotNervengift asked: who decides?18:52
vishNervengift: there is a team , the Papercutters team , which takes care of such bugs18:52
vishit consists of the Canonical design team + community members who have shown design skills in the past18:53
ClassBotRhonda asked: So the approach is to settle for something potential subpar because it is the simplest solution offered?18:54
vishRhonda: if the fix is subpar , then truly it aint a fix :)18:54
vishthe fix needs to address the problem *and* be the simplest approach18:54
vishSo if you see a paper cut with a long, drawn out discussion, let it play out, but remember that at some point we should pick a good solution and commit to it.18:55
ClassBotThere are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.18:55
vishIf people are passionate about alternate solutions, let them craft those solutions and get them in the 100 paper cuts for the next cycle.18:56
vishBut if we can view user experience in Ubuntu as a spectrum.18:56
vishThe goal is to make measurable, *incremental* improvement on 100 issues .18:56
vishpeople are fixing simple bugs and have gotten so good at it that Upstreams have taken notice of them , ex:18:57
vishMarcus, has now been given GIT commit access to nautilus too.. and all from fixing papercuts :)18:58
vishdoes anyone know Nautilus-elementary?18:58
vishwell , it all started because of this guy!18:59
vishhis patches were the foundation for N-E :)18:59
vishalrighty.. almost time up! , so anyone have any question?18:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: Contribute To Ubuntu, Do Server Papercuts! - Instructor: ttx
ttxThanks vish for this excellent session !19:00
ttxHello everyone !19:01
ttxMy session is a continuation on the "it's easy to help Ubuntu" theme, but more specifically addressing Ubuntu Server.19:01
ttxRemember, feel free to ask questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefixed by [QUESTION]19:01
ttxI'll stop a few times to answer them as we go19:02
ttxSo this session is about how to contribute to Ubuntu Server by helping with the Server Papercuts project.19:02
ttxThanks to vish you now already know everything there is to know about the One hundred Papercuts project.19:02
ttxAs a reminder, that project is about finding and fixing minor annoyances that affect the usability of the desktop.19:02
ttxThose are usually low-hanging fruit, but can be hard to spot for seasoned users.19:03
ttxWhen we discussed how to improve Ubuntu Server polish for 10.04 LTS, the Server team came up with the idea of doing Server papercuts.19:03
ttxFinding and fixing minor annoyances that affect the Ubuntu Server sysadmin experience.19:03
ttxWe did that over the two beta iterations for Lucid Lynx and fixed 19 bugs.19:03
ttxAt UDS Maverick we decided to continue that effort over the Maverick cycle.19:04
ttxOne common thing I hear at conferences or when meeting Ubuntu Server users is "how can I help".19:04
ttxIt is wonderful to have such a helpful community, but sometimes it's difficult to find something for them to start with.19:04
ttxIn this session I'll present the Server papercuts effort as an easy way for you to participate to Ubuntu Server.19:05
ttxQuestions so far ?19:05
ttxOK then, let's continue19:05
ttxDealing with papercuts is a two-step effort: (1) Collection and (2) Fix19:06
ttxIf you're an Ubuntu Server user, you can help in the Collection area.19:06
ttxIf you want to get involved in development or packaging, you can help in the Fix area19:06
ttxJust a few words about the structure of the effort. We organize separate iterations.19:06
ttxIn Lucid we had two: one during beta1 and the other during beta2.19:07
ttxIn Maverick we have 3 of them: one during alpha2, one during alpha3 and one during beta.19:07
ttxThe alpha2 one is completed (10 bugs fixed): https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-219:07
ttxThe alpha3 one is in progress (18 bugs targeted): https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-319:08
ttxThe beta iteration will soon start and will be tracked at https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-beta19:08
ttxSo the first stage of the process is the Collection. If you are an Ubuntu Server user, you can help us with that.19:08
ttxIf you notice anything that represents a minor annoyance impacting the usability of Ubuntu Server, you can report it as a Server papercut.19:09
ttxThe process to nominate Server papercuts is the following:19:09
ttx1. If the papercut isn’t already filed as an Ubuntu bug in Launchpad, file a bug against the affected Ubuntu package19:09
ttx2. Look up the bug you want to nominate as a Server papercut, then click on “Also affects project”19:09
ttx3. Click “Choose another project” and type in “server-papercuts”, click “Continue”19:10
ttx4. Click on “Add to Bug report”19:10
ttxThen a new task will be added to the bug to show it's been reported as a Server papercut.19:10
ttxYou can start now to nominate bugs for the beta iteration of the Maverick Server Papercuts !19:10
ttxIt sounds like a minor task, but it's really useful for us.19:10
ttxWe are so used to how Ubuntu Server behaves that we overlook things.19:11
ttxYour input is therefore very valuable, and a very simple way to contribute to Ubuntu Server success !19:11
ttxAny question on the Papercuts nomination process ?19:11
ttxOur only listener said "nope", so I guess I'll continue :)19:12
ttxThe nomination period for the Maverick Beta iteration will end on August 1st. Our goal for this one is to have 12 targets.19:12
ttxDuring the August 3rd Ubuntu Server meeting (at 1800 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting), we'll review the nominations and select the targets based on the following criteria:19:13
ttx1. Must affect server packages (in main, universe or multiverse)19:13
ttx2. Should meet current freezes requirements19:13
ttxSince the beta iteration starts after FeatureFreeze, we will reject for this one papercuts that imply to add new features (or change behavior)...19:13
ttxWe'll keep them for the next papercuts cycle !19:14
ttx3. Must affect "Server experience", like:19:14
ttx* Out-of-the-box readiness (bad default configs, package requiring manual steps to go from installed to running)19:14
ttx* Teamplay (packages not working well together, while making sense to be used together)19:15
ttx* Smooth operation (anything requiring tedious or repetitive manual work)19:15
ttx* Missing documentation (missing man pages, missing inline comments in default configs)19:15
ttx* Upgrade issues (init scripts failures blowing up maintainer scripts)19:15
ttx* Cruft (broken symlinks, residue of purge)19:15
ttx* Server feeling (abusive recommends)19:16
ttx4. Must be easy to fix (less than 2 hours to fix, with an obvious and non-controversial solution)19:16
ttxThat's about it for the Collection stage. Questions ?19:16
ttx<saji89> QUESTION: Does server papercut involve only small bugs from the ubuntu server edition, or can it include bugs reported by users using LAMP server, etc on their Ubuntu desktop edition?19:16
ttxThere is no strict separation between desktop and server... it's the same platform, only different packages installed19:17
ttxso if the bug they experience is on a server package deployed on a desktop setup, that's ok19:17
ttx(as the "pure" server users would probably be affected too)19:18
ttxAny other question ? Questions on the criteria ?19:18
ttxok, let's move to the second stage then19:19
ttxThe second stage is actual bugfixing.19:19
ttxIf you are interested in participating to Ubuntu Server development and packaging, Server Papercuts are the best bugs to start with.19:19
ttxCriteria (4) above says that the bug should take less than 2 hours to fix and have an obvious solution.19:20
ttxFurthermore, the Ubuntu Server team will be available to help you in #ubuntu-server in getting your fix together, and to sponsor it when done.19:20
ttxSo it's really a neat way to start with Ubuntu Server development and bugfixing, if you're interested in that.19:20
ttxIf you're interested to participate in the maverick beta iteration, starting Aug 3rd you'll be able to pick bugs from https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-beta19:21
ttxIf you want to participate *now*, feel free to have a look at https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-319:21
ttxIf you see an yet-unfixed bug there that you'd like to fix, contact its current assignee (or comment on the bug)19:21
ttxHe should be very happy to help you fixing it, rather than fix it himself !19:22
ttxTeach a man how to fish... or something like that19:22
ttxThe papercuts bugs are mostly small packaging bugs19:22
ttxIf you need pointers about Debian packaging or Ubuntu development in general, please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/19:22
ttxThe Server papercuts project is at : https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts19:23
ttxThe Server papercutters team (with a cool badge) lives at: https://launchpad.net/~server-papercutters19:23
ttxFeel free to join the team if you want to get notified on new papercuts !19:23
ttxThe Spec describing the Maverick Papercuts iterations is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerPapercutsMSpec19:24
ttxThat's about it for the Server papercuts ! Questions ?19:24
ttxNo question -- so it's all crystal clear and everybody will soon help us finding and fixing Server Papercuts ! Cool !19:26
ttxSince we have quite some time left, I'll mention other great ways of contributing to Ubuntu Server :)19:26
ttxTo improve our bug reports, we use apport hooks to automatically provide the relevant information19:26
ttxWriting an apport hook is quite easy and documented at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport19:27
ttxWe have a list of packages that could use an apport hook, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ApportHooks19:27
ttxIf you want to help in that area, zul is your man19:28
ttxAnother possibility is to help us continue migrating services to upstart19:28
ttxIt's slightly more complex than writing an apport hook, and more FAIL when you get it wrong19:29
ttxhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerUpstartConversion tracks that effort19:30
ttxQuestions on apport hooks or upstart scripts ?19:30
ttxOK then, moving on to more exciting ways to contribute to Ubuntu Server then :)19:31
ttxThere are several tasks for contributors...19:32
ttxYou can triage bugs and become a Triager.19:32
ttxThe goal is to move bug that are in a NEW status to a CONFIRMED or INVALID status.19:32
ttxSince it is difficult to know each and every server package in Ubuntu, we plan on setting up communities of practice over sets of server packages19:33
ttxlike "mail services", "directory services"...19:33
ttxThos would be ubuntu-server subteams, grouping experts in each field19:34
=== rosset is now known as rosset|away
ttxWe are still thinking how we can pull that off, but that's the direction we are heading to19:34
ttxYou can improve packages and become a Packager19:34
ttxthat's basically taking bugs and fix them, forwarding patches to Debian in the process19:35
ttxYou can participate in testing plans and become a Tester...19:35
ttxThere are two types of testing efforts: milestone testing (ISO testing) and calls for testing19:35
ttxAt every milestone we produce Ubuntu Server deliverables (ISOs, UEC cloud images, EC2 AMIs...)19:36
ttxthose need to be tested, and that's done through http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all19:36
ttxIn some cases we also call for testing on a specific feature or upgrade19:37
ttxTesting is just invaluable.19:37
ttx<Omahn87> QUESTION: Is there anyone in particular in the server team that I should contain for mentorship on creating upstart scripts?19:37
ttxThat would be the incredible zul again19:38
ttxThough the foundations team is the ultimate arbiter for upstart script viability :)19:38
ttxOK, finally you can maintain documentation and become a Documentor19:39
ttxthere is an Ubuntu Server guide, and also community-maintained wiki pages19:39
ttxsommer is the one to contact if you'e interested in writing a new section, or help with doc in general19:40
ttxBecoming a member of the Ubuntu Server Team is really easy:19:40
ttxProcess is "Subscribe to the ubuntu-server mailing list" then "Apply for membership for the ubuntu-server team on launchpad" :)19:40
ttxWe meet every Tuesday on IRC at 1800 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting19:41
ttxCome and see us :)19:41
ttxQuestions ?19:41
ttxOK, that's about it for the 99 best ways to contribute to Ubuntu Server...19:42
ttxFor the next 15 minutes, we can turn that into a general Q/A session for the Ubuntu Server technical lead19:43
ttxSo you can fire any question :)19:43
ttx<saji89> QUESTION: I see a list of 48 people still pending approval for the Ubuntu Server team.19:44
ttxuh... :)19:44
ttxThat's because we've done a lousy job processing them. I'll make sure I use a big stick to beat the responsible to death.19:45
ttx<abhijit> QUESTION: this is in general question. I read somewhere that I can setup my own mail server. so does it mean that i wll have myname@anynameIchoose.com email id? now if it is possible is it compusory to run my server 24 hours?19:45
ttxabhijit: well, you first need a domain name, set it up so that the MX record points to your server...19:46
ttxthen set up a server. It's better if it runs 24hours a day, though you can use a relaying server somewhere else and pull from that one19:46
ttx<penguin42> QUESTION: In general does server-papercuts include virtualisation issues?19:47
ttxpenguin42: yes, in general. Virtualization is in the server realm.19:48
ttxOther questions ? Like "what is cloud computing ?"19:49
* ttx can make up hard questions himself.19:49
ttx<abhijit> now answer yourself!!! :D19:49
ttxI may miss some time :)19:49
ttxSo, cloud computing is not a specific product or a specific technology19:50
ttxIt's a technological transition towards the usage of computing as a service...19:50
ttxwhich comes in several forms...19:50
ttx<Omahn87> QUESTION: Is it possible to ensure old style init.d scripts don't come up before the network and other upstart enabled services? (I'm thinking NIS here!)19:50
ClassBotThere are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.19:50
ttxOmahn87: the unfortunate answer to that is to upstartify the things that need to depend on already-upstartified services19:51
* ttx continues on cloud computing, unless another question is asked :P19:53
ttxone of those forms is IaaS, infrastructure as a service19:54
ttxUbuntu Server provides two solutions for IaaS19:54
ttx<saji89> QUESTION: SRU means?19:54
ttxStable Release Update19:54
ttxan update to an already-released Ubuntu version.19:54
ttxOne is a complete IaaS solution to build your own private cloud, it's called UEC19:55
ttxand based on Eucalyptus19:55
ClassBotThere are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.19:55
ttxthe other is guest images to run on a IaaS solution (like Amazon's EC2 or UEC): that's out Ubuntu Server cloud images19:55
ttxok, that was the "cloud computing primer" :)19:56
ttx<Omahn87> QUESTION: Is UEC still the future of internal clouds in Ubuntu? You expressed some doubt at the last UKUUG conference.19:57
ttxWe are technology enablers. If something else comes up, we should support it as well19:57
ttxThere are a few issues with high availability in Eucalyptus, it's a feature of their Enterprise Edition19:58
ttxhopefully by friendly and popular pressure they will recondider that and push it to the open source edition :)19:59
ttxok, I'm done, thanks for listening20:00
ttxwithout questions it went quite fast :)20:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: How To Help With Xubuntu - Instructor: charlie-tca
charlie-tcaOkay, let me jump in hear then20:01
charlie-tcaI need somebody to give TheSheep voice if possible. It will make it easier for him to help me out20:01
charlie-tcaI'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists.20:01
charlie-tcaIt has been a while since I did one of these things, so throw soft stones at me, please :-)20:02
charlie-tcaI am in a dual role right now, as interim Xubuntu Project Lead and as the lead for Xubuntu QA, Testing and Bug Triage.20:02
charlie-tcaI am going to keep the "it's easy to help" theme going, but let's apply it to Xubuntu.20:03
charlie-tcaThank you, mhall11920:04
charlie-tca Xubuntu needs YOU!20:04
charlie-tcaXubuntu is Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop. Xfce emphasizes conservation of system resources, which makes Xubuntu an excellent choice for any system, new or old.20:04
charlie-tcaWe are an alive and kicking project. We just need some more help.20:05
charlie-tcaXubuntu is an ideal candidate for those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware, thin-client networks, old or low-end machines.20:05
charlie-tca<mhall119> QUESTION: I build a custom distro (Qimo) on top of Xubuntu, great work you guys have done (not really a question)20:06
charlie-tcaThanks for saying so. For a small team of volunteers, we try hard.20:06
charlie-tca<simar> QUESTION: if  Xfce desktop is better than gnome (i'm saying in terms of user experience), then why can't the default desktop of ubuntu be changed?20:07
charlie-tcaGreat question. I am glad you asked.20:07
charlie-tcaThe default desktop for Ubuntu was chosen by Mark Shuttleworth when he started the distribution. Xfce at the time was not advanced enough yet.20:07
charlie-tcaNow, There is Ubuntu with Gnome, Kubuntu with KDE, and Xubuntu with Xfce. To change Ubuntu to Xfce would negate Xubuntu.20:08
charlie-tcaXubuntu is an official derivative of Ubuntu, built and maintained by volunteers.20:09
charlie-tcaXubuntu is the Xfce-based distribution with a native 64-bit architecture. We produce both a 32-bit and 64-bit versions.20:09
TheSheep< Daekdroom> QUESTION: Why is there some talk (and benchmarks) saying20:11
TheSheep                   that Xubuntu may actually use more RAM than standard Ubuntu?20:11
TheSheep                   What happened?20:11
charlie-tcaI don't know which benchmarks those are. The phoronx reviews all show Xubuntu using fewer resources, unless the user adds applications such as "OpenOffice"20:12
charlie-tcaWhile Xubuntu does use many of the same applications as Ubuntu, we also offer some different choices.20:12
charlie-tcaWe offer Abiword and Gnumeric instead of OpenOffice.org, Thunar file manager instead of Nautilus, and Exaile for playing your music and audio files.20:13
charlie-tcaGimp is included by default, for those who need it. Brassero and Firefox are also default applications.20:14
charlie-tcaSince we are an official derivative, we use the same repositories as Ubuntu and Kubuntu. Any user is free to add applications or remove those applications that they want to.20:14
charlie-tcaOf course, we believe the applications included by default are the best suited for Xubuntu and it's goals.20:14
charlie-tcaThose goals are given in the Xubuntu Strategy Document available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument and I would urge you to read that if you are interested in helping out.20:14
charlie-tcaWe offer the user many choices. Of course, to offer those choices requires considerable work by volunteers in Xubuntu development.20:15
charlie-tcaWe have many opportunities for those looking to take initiative. There are many possibilities for anybody to make their marks!20:15
charlie-tcaGetting involved in Xubuntu is easy and fun!20:16
charlie-tcaAnd, you do not have to be a developer to get involved! Let's introduce TheSheep to say a few words about non-developer involvement in Xubuntu...20:17
TheSheep< mhall119> QUESTION: You've sold me, how do I get involved?20:17
TheSheepHello everyone, I'm Radomir Dopieralski, I'm knowan as TheSheep on freenode.20:17
=== Andre_Gondim is now known as Andre_Gondim-afk
charlie-tcaOn a related to the above question:20:18
charlie-tca<simar> QUESTION: IN what terms can we start help Xbuntu right away.20:18
TheSheepI'm an exmaple of a person who doesn't do coding for xubuntu, but does try to help when possible.20:18
TheSheepThe most basic thing you can do is to just hanf around the #xubuntu channel even after your question has been answered and your issue solved (or not)20:19
TheSheepThen you can see a lot of questions answered, and you can repeat those answers to people who just came in and are asking them.20:19
TheSheepA lot of questions are repeated, so even a non-exxperienced user can help a lot20:19
TheSheepStaying on the channel for a while you gain experience and real-life knowledge, so soon you can start helping people with more complicated problems20:21
TheSheepAnother area that is an excellent place to help for new people is the bugtracker20:21
TheSheepWhen you use xubuntu for a while, you gain knowledge about which components are responsible for what, so you can start helping triaging bugs20:22
TheSheepYou can look at the newly reported bugs and assign them to the right components, and also ask people for clarifications when their bug reports are lacking.20:22
TheSheepYou soon get a feel of what kind of information is useful in a particular problem, so you can ask people for that and let the developers use the time they saved to actual bug fixing20:23
TheSheepThe next very important way you can help is testing new things.20:24
TheSheepA distribution like xubuntu is a huge and complicated system, and the more eyes are looking for defects in it, the less will slip to the actual release.20:24
TheSheepIf you have non-standard hardware or fancy settings, you will also make sure they won't break after the update -- by checking the testing releases and reporting the bugs.20:25
charlie-tca<simar> QUESTION: I think the first step towards contribution is to install xubuntu. Is there a way we could try Xubuntu by removing gnome and installing xfce and also same way to revert back is so we don't like the environment.20:26
TheSheepOf course, installing and using xubuntu is the first requirement, that goes without saying.20:26
TheSheepas long as you keep using it and report problems, it's going to improve20:27
TheSheepif you just drop it at the first sight of trouble, the trouble are likely to stay there20:27
TheSheepThere are also some areas where you can help by becoming a little more involved.20:28
TheSheepBlogging about xubuntu, and generally all kinds of publicity are great.20:29
TheSheepEven if your benchmarks show what is not so great in xubuntu -- it's also good, because it shows what can be improved, and it shows people what to expect -- so they won't get disappointed.20:29
TheSheepThere is a lot of work to do with documentation -- we don't have enough manpower to keep everything up to date20:30
TheSheepAnd, last but not least, if you have any specific skills, you can always use them for helping xubuntu.20:31
TheSheepI think that's about it -- everything elase you can pick up on the go.20:32
TheSheepThank you.20:32
TheSheepcharlie-tca: your stage :)20:32
charlie-tcaThanks, TheSheep. That is very insightful!20:33
charlie-tcaHaving different applications means we must have different documentation. Opportunities exist to get started if you enjoy writing!20:33
charlie-tcaOur artwork is very different from the artwork used in Ubuntu. We use a blue desktop background, and the Xubuntu logo is shades of blue.20:33
=== pgraner is now known as pgraner-afk
charlie-tcaWe also design our own plymouth and gdm screens. Opportunities exist to get involved in artwork and be recognized for your efforts!20:34
charlie-tca<simar> QUESTION: If xubuntu is not so great as you said, do you really think that it has the required task (developers) force that it  can improve to the required standards. Otherwise its all not a good thing to shift your focus off 'a single ubuntu'.20:35
charlie-tcaActually, focus has never been on a single Ubuntu. Kubuntu was started about the same time, in 2004, and Xubuntu has been around since 2006.20:36
charlie-tca<mhall119> QUESTION: the Kubuntu team made the decision to stick with KDE default look, is Xubuntu committed to matching the Ubuntu default look?20:36
charlie-tcaWe are not committed to matching Ubuntu. We do use our own colors and artwork. It also takes some time to integrate the design changes made in Ubuntu. We have to coordinate them with Xfce.20:37
charlie-tcaAs an official derivative of Ubuntu, we maintain the same release schedules as Ubuntu. Being a much smaller, volunteer team, this can put a strain on the testing and bug triage group.20:37
charlie-tca<mhall119> QUESTION: are there plans for an Xfce-based Netbook Edition?20:38
charlie-tcaAt the present time, we do not plan a Netbook Edition. We have created ports for the PowerPC and PS3, which we strive to maintain.20:39
charlie-tcaAs TheSheep said, Xubuntu attempts to test its ISO images before every release milestone is announced. Want to help out? We can always use more testing, as can Ubuntu and Kubuntu!20:39
charlie-tcaPPC and PS3 ports are available at https://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ports/20:40
charlie-tcaOn the development side, we work closely with Debian to package Xfce for use with both Debian and Xubuntu. Since we are an official derivative of Ubuntu, we also use the Ubuntu repositories and packages.20:41
charlie-tcaIf you want to learn packaging, we would suggest following the MOTU (Masters Of The Universe) mentoring program to learn the basics.20:41
charlie-tcaMore information about the MOTU program is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted .20:41
charlie-tcaAfter learning the basics, you would focus on Xubuntu packages. Yes, our developers would appreciate your help.20:42
charlie-tcaAny other questions? Did we answer all your questions for you?20:43
charlie-tcaWell, then let's get you started!20:44
charlie-tcaTo start, simply sign up on our xubuntu-devel mailing list and join #xubuntu-devel on Freenode.20:44
TheSheep < mhall119> QUESTION: Any specific development focus for Maverick?20:44
charlie-tcaWe are focusing on a well working distribution. There may be some application changes, but we want it to work well for the user.20:45
charlie-tcaSince all of us run the current stable version to do our work, it is important to us that is not be plagued with issues.20:46
charlie-tca<mhall119> QUESTION: What accessibility tools does Xubuntu come with by default?20:46
charlie-tcaGood one. Thanks for asking that.20:46
charlie-tcaWhile we have the accessibility settings for mouse and keyboard installed by default, the speech and other applications must be installed by the user.20:47
charlie-tcaXubuntu uses the standard Gnome applications at this time. They do work, without trouble most of the time.20:48
charlie-tca<mhall119> QUESTION: Thoughts on moving window controls to the left to match Ubuntu?20:48
charlie-tcaNot if I can help it :-)20:49
TheSheep< mhall119> QUESTION: LXDE has come out as the new light-weight DE, what20:49
TheSheep                  affect do you see that having on Xubuntu's niche?20:49
charlie-tcaI don't see much effect. LXDE/Lubuntu is aiming at the old pc audience. They use about 30% fewer resources compared to Xubuntu.20:50
ClassBotThere are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.20:50
charlie-tcaIf your computer does not work well with Xubuntu, by all means, install Lubuntu.20:51
charlie-tcaUnfortunately, the reviews I have seen all show a great increase in resources when the default applications are replaced with users choices.20:52
charlie-tcaWe're a friendly bunch and enjoy helping folks learn the ropes.20:52
charlie-tcaCome on down anytime to #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel on freenode if you have questions.20:53
TheSheepANd #xubuntu-offtopic to just socialize20:54
charlie-tcaAs I stated at the beginning, I am currently the interim Xubuntu Project Lead. Does that mean I am a developer?20:54
charlie-tcaThe truth be told, I can not write code. My brain appears to be "brain-dead" when it comes to learning new programming languages now.20:54
charlie-tcaI have been trying for about 4 years just to learn bash. The harder I try, the more I "bash" my head. Maybe that counts...  :-)20:54
ClassBotThere are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.20:55
charlie-tcaSimply put, if you want to get started in development and don't quite know where to start, come talk to us. We have room for a few good people!20:55
charlie-tcaI would like to thank everyone for participating! And, a special thanks to TheSheep for helping me out here today. Have a great day!20:56
TheSheepThanks and see you at #xubuntu20:56
charlie-tcaWell, everybody can take a break for a couple of minutes until the last session of the day. It is going to be another great time with "Merge proposals"21:00
* jcastro taps mic21:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
jcastrook everyoe, unfortunately, our instructor for this session, Martin, is sick21:01
jcastroand tried to take a bunch of drugs, but that made him worse21:01
jcastroso we're going to try to on-the-fly turn this into a Q+A session for merge proposals21:01
jcastrosince mhall119's been working with the tools21:01
jcastroMartin apologizes for not being able to make it, we'll have to schedule a formal session for a later date21:02
jcastrook mhall119, why don't you tell us a bit about what merge proposals are?21:02
mhall119okay, let me start off by saying I'm not a launchpad dev, but I do use it's merge proposal feature quite often21:03
mhall119I'm one of the loco-directory developers, and I also maintain the django port of the ubuntu-website theme21:03
mhall119I use launchpad merge proposals for both21:03
mhall119in a nut shell, merge proposals are requests you make, for the owner of a branch to pull in changes that you have in one of your branches21:04
mhall119you can do this without launchpad, but launchpad provides some nice interfaces and tools that make it so much nicer21:04
mhall119okay, so lets do a live demo21:06
mhall119I just uploaded a new bzr branch to LP: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/%2Bjunk/imporv/21:06
mhall119note, you don't need to have a project to push branches to launchpad21:06
mhall119which is kind of convenient21:07
mhall119okay, so here we have a branch with a single file in it21:07
mhall119directory actually, because I was in a hurry and used mkdir instead of touch21:08
mhall119okay, if you refresh, there should be a revision 2, that now has the file /file1/foo21:08
mhall119launchpad scans the history and contents of branches you push21:09
mhall119it sometimes takes a few minutes21:09
mhall119okay, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/%2Bjunk/imporv/ now has revision 221:09
mhall119usually what happens, when working on a project, is that you branch the development focus branch (usually referred to as the "trunk")21:10
mhall119then you make your fixes, and upload it to launchpad as a separate branch21:10
mhall119launchpad is smart enough to know which one you branched from, and so it won't make a copy of everything in your new branch, just the changes you made21:11
mhall119now, right now /file1/foo contains "bar".21:11
mhall119let's say we want to change that to "baz"21:11
mhall119I'm going to pretend I'm a different user for this21:12
mhall119so I edit foo, change bar to baz, and then bzr commit it to my local branch21:13
mhall119next I need to upload that to a new branch on launchpad21:13
mhall119so I run: push lp:~mhall119/+junk/baz-fix21:13
mhall119you will usually name your new branch after a feature or bug #21:14
mhall119so, here's my new branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/+junk/baz-fix21:14
mhall119questions on any of this?21:16
=== Andre_Gondim-afk is now known as Andre_Gondim
mhall119anyone still here for this?21:18
mhall119okay, it appears I've done something wrong with my branches...21:21
mhall119usually launchpad will show a "propose for merging" link on the branch page21:21
mhall119that might require an actual project21:22
mhall119so let me try one with an actual project21:22
mhall119okay, everyone look here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/classroom-scheduler/add-admin21:24
mhall119you'll see the "Propose for merging" link there21:25
mhall119well, you might not, because the branch is owned by me21:25
mhall119if you can't see it don't worry, it's there ;)21:25
mhall119I'm going to go ahead and propose it for merging21:26
mhall119when you click the link, it brings you to a page where you can select the branch you want to have yours merged into, as well as a space for a comment about what is going to be merged21:26
mhall119once you submit it, you'll get something like this: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/classroom-scheduler/add-admin/+merge/3004621:27
mhall119this will send an email to the person(s) responsible for that branch, letting them know the proposal has been made21:27
mhall119once launchpad is done scanning the proposal, it'll even show a green and red highlighted diff on that page21:28
mhall119can everyone see that?21:28
akgranerThanks mhall119!!!21:42
akgranerok folks mhall119 has to leave - many thanks for handling an ad hoc QA session!!!21:44
akgranerjcastro, do you have anything you want to add?21:44
akgranerIf not - that's a wrap for Day 4 of Ubuntu Developer Week!  Check out tomorrow's sessions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek  and hope to see you back tomoroow!!!21:45
akgranertomorrow even :-)21:45
akgranerThanks everyone for a great Day 4!!!21:45

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!