[09:57] <huats> morning
[11:46] <vish> @now
[12:20] <nigelb> vish: date -u :)
[13:01] <aday> vish: have we got a ux meeting today?
[13:02] <vish> aday: oh there must be one , mpt is back
[13:02] <vish> aday: seen http://pendulumtech.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/ubuntu-accessibility-team-personas-survey/  ?
[13:03] <aday> vish: that's what i thought. it's supposed to be nowish, isn't it?
[13:03] <vish> yeah , should be now
[13:04] <aday> vish: hadn't seen that. good stuff. i'm wanting to do some research for the gnome personas but haven't had time
[13:08] <vish> aday: mpt is probably buried deep in backlog mails :p
[13:08] <mpt> hello hello
[13:08] <thorwil> hi vish, aday, mpt
[13:08] <mpt> Hi thorwil
[13:08] <vish> ~o~
[13:08] <aday> mpt: welcome back :)
[13:08] <mpt> thanks
[13:09] <aday> thorwil: hey
[13:09] <thorwil> mpt: hope you had a good time! not that now a bad time would follow :)
[13:09] <mpt> Yes, I had a relaxing holiday
[13:10] <mpt> So, this morning I was reminded about the bus factor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
[13:10] <mpt> This team currently has a low bus factor
[13:10] <aday> mpt: not just this team...
[13:11] <thorwil> mpt: nah, there would have to be something that can be send into disarray, first ;)
[13:11] <aday> mpt: FOSS ux in general
[13:12] <vish> yay!
[13:12] <vish> ;p
[13:13] <vish> and the conclusion ? we need to give mpt top notch security?
[13:13] <mpt> No, we just need more active people
[13:13] <aday> ha ha
[13:14] <aday> so where are we at? what's happening?
[13:14] <vish> mpt: you wouldnt have missed this but just a reminder of Pendulum's persona work : http://pendulumtech.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/ubuntu-accessibility-team-personas-survey/
[13:15] <thorwil> i really like the idea of building a central resource, one shape of that being godby's book idea
[13:15] <aday> a community ux resource would be great
[13:16] <mpt> vish, that's pretty neat
[13:16] <vish> yeah , nice work!
[13:16] <thorwil> also there got to be a way to do a software guided design process
[13:17] <mpt> We've been talking about personas for Ubuntu since April last year <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38687067@N05/3568007297/in/set-72157618841687398/>, but have never had time to get it going.
[13:17] <vish> we need to get personas sorted out, this should be our critical priority ,IMO!
[13:18] <aday> mpt: have you seen the ones that hylke and garrett have been working on?
[13:18] <thorwil> in how far should personas for ubuntu deviate from ones for gnome?
[13:18] <vish> mpt: fax me those sticky notes! and we can start on something ;)
[13:19] <aday> thorwil: why would they deviate?
[13:19] <thorwil> aday: zero is a possible answer ;)
[13:19] <mpt> aday, no
[13:20] <thorwil> aday: can those be found outside the google wave?
[13:20] <aday> i'm planning to do some interviews to juice up the personas when i get time. it'll be nice to have a bit of 'real world' stuff in there
[13:21] <aday> thorwil: not so far... the plan is to get them approved by the gnome board or somethin
[13:21] <mpt> vish, ivanka just found them all at the bottom of a drawer and handed them to me
[13:21] <thorwil> mpt: paste from the wave: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/237907/
[13:21] <vish> sweet!
[13:24] <mpt> aday, nice work
[13:27] <aday> all i need to do is find a 63 old plumber called joe ;)
[13:29] <mpt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber
[13:29] <aday> think he'd do an interview?
[13:30] <mpt> He's done many interviews.
[13:30] <vish> not him again!
[13:30] <mpt> haha
[13:30] <thorwil> mpt: i've been told that there is no grand?a deliberately, as age related issues are included with Joe. there's no software developer to avoid skewing it all, but the Web Developer is supposed to bring in the technical side
[13:31] <mpt> thorwil, be careful, because if you end up not designing for software developers *at all*, you end up with a dead platform
[13:32] <thorwil> mpt: heh, i just passed on the arguments, they are not mine :)
[13:32] <thorwil> as i did propose inclusion of a software developer
[13:33] <thorwil> so that would be one possible area where ubuntu personas could differ from the gnome ones
[13:33] <aday> mpt: i think the argument is that we will design for devs whatever happens, and that the personas are designed to highlight those kinds of people that tend to get ignored
[13:34] <mpt> ok
[13:34] <aday> it's not meant to be representative of who we design for in that sense - it's more pragmatic
[13:34] <vish> aday: but once we get such developer excluded personas , the first question would be .. what about developers?!
[13:34] <aday> thorwil: if it's really important to have a dev in there, make the case to have that persona in the gnome set
[13:34] <vish> why arent they in the equation..
[13:35] <aday> vish: i agree. i suspect that we will end up having that persona in there, though hylke and garrett are keen to avoid that
[13:36] <vish> aday: yeah , i noticed that.. i just haent gotten around to reading that wave fully and comment :)
[13:36] <thorwil> aday: i'm not going to repeat myself there. the last thing i want is spend energy on convincing designers and ux people, when there there is so much ignrnace of the basics out there :)
[13:37] <aday> thorwil: i understand, i just don't think forking is the solution
[13:38] <thorwil> aday: in that case a representative from canonical should have more weight
[13:41] <aday> thorwil: everybody is welcome to contribute :)
[13:42] <mpt> Use of Ubuntu is a bit broader than use of Gnome. We need to care about things like "will Ubuntu work on my computer", "how do I watch a DVD", "I want to keep the software on 300 computers up-to-date", etc, which are outside of what Gnome covers.
[13:43] <thorwil> system administrator. loco team leader? turning doctormo into a persona would be fun :)
[13:45] <vish> thorwil: yeah , we already turned him in a cartoon , lets make him a persona! :D
[13:45] <vish> s/in/into
[13:47] <vish> bah!  rather a cartoon for him...
[13:47]  * vish gets back to wave
[13:52] <aday> maybe it would be possible for canonical to extend or supplement the gnome personas?
[13:54] <aday> i need to eat! see you all next week...
[13:54] <thorwil> sure. there could be a larger set of them, even, and projects like specific applications could go like: "i chose you, Joe Plumber!" ...
[13:55] <mpt> aday, ivanka says she'll be happy to discuss this with you at Guadec, Monday to Wednesday.
[13:55] <mpt> d'oh
[13:55] <thorwil> aday: bon apetite, cya
[13:57] <thorwil> i declare this meeting to be closed, just because i like the sound of these words!
[13:58] <vish> thorwil: gonna grab a bite?
[13:58] <thorwil> vish: soon, but see, i wasn't first! ;)
[13:58] <vish> mpt: what happened to the noisy fella , named Benjamin!
[13:59] <vish> just inquiring another kiwi ;p
[13:59] <thorwil> vish: did he ever make it to one these meetings?
[13:59] <mpt> He was at the first one
[13:59] <vish> he came once
[13:59] <mpt> But I think he's trying to not fail classes now
[14:00] <vish> good goal!
[14:00] <thorwil> yeah, i already wondered how he manages all his activities
[14:00] <vish> alrighty , we can end meeting?
[14:00] <vish> ... and let thorwil grab something :d
[14:03] <mpt> sure
[14:03] <mpt> I will try to be more organized next week
[14:03] <mpt> Sorry for dropping the ball
[14:46] <wers> mpt, oops. sorry didnt make it
[14:47] <mpt> wers, no problem, my fault for not sending a reminder
[14:48] <wers> mpt, nah I was actually aware of the meeting. was just stuck on the road
[19:41] <abhijit> seen
[19:41] <abhijit> :)
[23:49] <julianarmando> time