[16:03] <soren> Do we have a DMB meeting? My phone just informed me that we do, but I'm on Pacific time, so I can't really make it :(
[16:03] <cjwatson> hi
[16:03] <cjwatson> I believe so
[16:03] <cjwatson> persia,geser,nixternal,stgraber: ping
[16:03] <stgraber> pong
[16:03] <geser> pong
[16:06] <persia> pong
[16:07] <cjwatson> I chaired last time
[16:08] <cjwatson> can somebody please volunteer for chair?  four is quorm
[16:08] <cjwatson> +u
[16:08]  * persia will chair
[16:09] <persia> OK.
[16:09] <persia> #startmeeting
[16:09] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:09. The chair is persia.
[16:09] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:09] <statik> hello everyone
[16:09] <persia> Agenda is at:
[16:09] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[16:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[16:10] <persia> [TOPIC] Action Items
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
[16:10] <stgraber> I'm currently on 3G in a bus, so my internet is all but reliable (and I have a latency of 1000ms). So it might take a while before I answer, sorry ...
[16:10] <persia> [ACTION] Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
[16:10] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
[16:11]  * persia tries to puzzle out wiki history harder
[16:12] <geser> the applications/agenda items are ordered by the time of their addition
[16:12] <persia> Oh, excellent!
[16:13] <geser> or more exactly numbered
[16:13] <persia> [TOPIC] NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
[16:13] <cjwatson> cyphermox said to me in person that he might not be able to make it; but I think this was due to miscommunication of meeting time so this may no longer be true
[16:13] <cyphermox> I am there
[16:13] <cjwatson> persia: we need to decide on the package set itself first
[16:13] <cyphermox> (sorry about the confusion on this)
[16:13] <persia> Ah, right.
[16:14] <persia> [TOPIC] Network Manager package set
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Network Manager package set
[16:14] <geser> didn't we defer it due to missing feedback from asac?
[16:14] <cjwatson> ... I could go and beat asac until he shows up here
[16:15] <asac> hey
[16:15] <asac> i am fully supportive for cyphermox application for nm and friends upload rights
[16:15] <asac> he has been doing an awesome job for quite some time
[16:16] <persia> asac: We're still trying to sort the packageset:
[16:16] <asac> and is more than familiar with the problems involved there
[16:16] <persia> See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-June/000072.html
[16:16] <asac> sure
[16:16] <asac> those packages look good
[16:16] <asac> maybe even wpasupplicant ... though thats well maintianed in debian
[16:17] <asac> do you need more info?
[16:18] <persia> Does anyone have questions about the packageset before we vote?
[16:18] <persia> cyphermox: Do you have an explicit opinion about addition/non-addition of wpasupplicant?
[16:18]  * geser has none
[16:18] <cyphermox> persia; I'm fine with showing up again at a later time for wpasupplicant given I have never touched it before. I agree it should eventually be part of the set
[16:19] <stgraber> no question
[16:20] <persia> I'm tempted to add wpasupplicant to the set if asac and cyphermox think it belongs, unless anyone has an opinion otherwise.
[16:20] <cjwatson> I have no objection
[16:20] <asac> cool
[16:20] <asac> thanks ... (... also for poking me persia ;))
[16:21] <stgraber> Is wpa_supplicant used by something else than NM ? if not, I'm fine with it being part of the NM set
[16:21] <persia> [VOTE] A Network Manager package set to be established containing network-manager, network-manager-applet, network-manager-pptp, network-manager-openvpn, network-manager-vpnc, network-manager-openconnect, modemmanager, wpasupplicant, with membership in the associated developer group to be administered by the DMB
[16:21] <MootBot> Please vote on:  A Network Manager package set to be established containing network-manager, network-manager-applet, network-manager-pptp, network-manager-openvpn, network-manager-vpnc, network-manager-openconnect, modemmanager, wpasupplicant, with membership in the associated developer group to be administered by the DMB.
[16:21] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:21] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:21] <cjwatson> +1
[16:21] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:21] <cyphermox> stgraber, afaik, it will eventually be used by connman
[16:22] <cyphermox> (if not already)
[16:22] <geser> +1
[16:22] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:22] <persia> +1
[16:22] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:24] <stgraber> +1
[16:24] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[16:24] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[16:24] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[16:24] <stgraber> (sorry, lost internet for a few minutes)
[16:25] <persia> cjwatson: Would you be up for creating that set in LP?
[16:25] <stgraber> cyphermox: will you also take care of conman or will that be someone else ?
[16:25] <cjwatson> yep
[16:25] <cjwatson> action me
[16:25] <cyphermox> stgraber, I will be taking care of it as well
[16:25] <persia> [ACTION] cjwatson to create network-manager packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
[16:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to create network-manager packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
[16:26] <persia> [TOPIC] NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  NetworkManager Package Set upload application for Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
[16:26] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPUApplication
[16:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPUApplication
[16:29] <persia> cyphermox: You see to have only asac's live testimonial and no comments in your application: did you have trouble in your comment solicitation process?
[16:29] <cyphermox> persia, it's more that I've been doing nm-related work mostly only with asac
[16:31] <asac> persia: i added my comments ot a different page a while ago
[16:31] <asac> that was about a per package upload application i think rather than a package set
[16:31] <asac> so i guess we just didnt move it over
[16:31] <cyphermox> asac: motu
[16:32] <asac> really? hmm
[16:32] <asac> then i got confused
[16:32] <persia> Probably https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/DeveloperApplication (which is a bit old)
[16:32] <persia> asac: If you want to confirm that the comments from that apply to the current application, that's fine (if you don't want to copy/paste for some reason)
[16:33] <geser> cyphermox: any ideas on how we could make SRUs easier while keeping regressions low? (from your "like least" section)
[16:34] <cyphermox> geser, yes. It basically boils down to more testing, and perhaps even doing pre-proposed testing in PPAs and the like
[16:34] <cyphermox> I was fond of suggesting using other systems I have access to, but it's not easily feasible, sadly
[16:35] <asac> the network-manager parts are valid. let me know if you need me to add more content there. but please dont hold back the approval process because of that if possible
[16:37] <geser> cyphermox: how do you plan to get the attention of user for the testing or can you do that even without users?
[16:37] <asac> added endorsement
[16:37] <cyphermox> actually, i think we can do some amounts of testing without users as well... I'm working hard atm to get more testing done using checkbox, and I think we should strive to enable unit testing where available
[16:38] <cyphermox> e.g. NetworkManager, for example ;)
[16:40] <persia> Any other questions?
[16:40] <geser> no
[16:40] <stgraber> nope
[16:40] <cjwatson> nope
[16:41] <persia> [VOTE] Confirm Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) as a Network Manager developer
[16:41] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) as a Network Manager developer.
[16:41] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:41] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:41] <persia> +1
[16:41] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:41] <cjwatson> +1
[16:41] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:41] <stgraber> +1
[16:41] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:42] <asac> \o/
[16:43] <geser> +1
[16:43] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[16:43] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[16:43] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[16:43] <persia> cyphermox: Congratulations
[16:43] <cyphermox> thanks!
[16:43] <persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for David Sugar
[16:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for David Sugar
[16:43] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSugar/DeveloperApplication
[16:43] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSugar/DeveloperApplication
[16:44] <persia> I believe this application to be pointless, as dyfet is already (recently) an Ubuntu Member, so we'd not be doing anything by LP group manipulation.
[16:45] <dyfet> If you think that is correct process, I can understand the reasoning
[16:46] <cjwatson> that seems reasonable; of course dyfet's application for this predates his membership
[16:46] <geser> dyfet: it would only give you an additional badge on your LP page as your already an Ubuntu member
[16:46] <cjwatson> yes, the purpose of universe-contributors is "membership by the development path"
[16:46] <cjwatson> it doesn't AIUI confer privileges beyond that
[16:47] <persia> dyfet: Do you care whether you have the extra badge on your LP page?
[16:47] <dyfet> Long term my goal is MOTU, so it was suggested to go this route first
[16:48] <geser> UUC is not required for MOTU but a option to get Ubuntu membership on ones way towards MOTU
[16:49] <stgraber> it's because it's usually harder to get membership from a RMB as they tend to mostly grant membership to non-developers (not always true though) and then suggest to go to the DMB for membershipin that case. The result is still the same and won't affect your future MOTU application.
[16:50] <dyfet> Then perhaps it makes sense to table this and prepare the MOTU application when appropriate?
[16:52] <persia> dyfet: Your choice.  We can do it (easily), or skip it.  Just tell us which, and then we'll move on to the next agenda item.
[16:52]  * persia is sure no vote is required, as it's no permissions gained (nor shall be any in the future, from this choice).
[16:52] <dyfet> Well. I do not want to hold up this meeting.  If there is time remaining at the end, lets revisit, so that others have time to do things :)
[16:52] <persia> Right, moving on.
[16:53] <persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Lorenzo De Liso
[16:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Lorenzo De Liso
[16:53] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso/MOTUApplication
[16:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso/MOTUApplication
[16:53] <BlackZ> \o
[16:56] <cjwatson> (I guess people are reading)
[16:56] <persia> BlackZ: You've not indicated there'S anything you like least, which I have trouble believing.  Would you be able to answer the question if phrased as "What do you think is the most important thing to improve in Ubuntu?"
[16:57] <BlackZ> persia: I think we should tell the ubuntu contributors to contribute to debian too
[16:57] <BlackZ> it's very important, as debian is our upstream
[16:58] <BlackZ> I mean, getting the packages there instead of ubuntu only
[16:58] <tumbleweed> BlackZ is making tumbleweed happy :P
[16:58] <BlackZ> and other things, e.g. forwarding patches when we do merges
[16:58] <persia> BlackZ: Do you have any suggestions on how we could encourage or reward this behaviour?  It's a common goal, but many (especially newer) folks seem to want to avoid "doing the work twice", having yet to experience merges, etc.
[16:59] <BlackZ> persia: first we should encourage new ubuntu contributors to read debian procedures for get their work there
[16:59] <BlackZ> because if you're contributing to debian, you're contributing to ubuntu too (see the packages, for example)
[16:59] <BlackZ> what this, I don't want to say we should encourage to contribute *just* to debian
[17:00] <BlackZ> but I think new contributors should understand that debian is important for us
[17:01] <lfaraone> BlackZ: +1
[17:01] <persia> Any other questions for BlackZ?
[17:01] <geser> BlackZ: what did you do/plan to do about the concerns mentioned by tumbleweed?
[17:02] <BlackZ> geser: referring to Stefano and Charlie Smotherman's comments' they're right and now I'm forwarding relevant changes/patches to debian, and upstream if needed, for example, please see bug #604976 and #605210. I promise I will triple-check my future debdiffs before uploading them
[17:02] <tumbleweed> (although we all make mistakes - re checking)
[17:03] <BlackZ> and I will do that as MOTU too, obviously
[17:04] <geser> persia: no more questions, you can proceed
[17:04] <cjwatson> persia had a hard-freeze on his laptop; he's working on it
[17:04] <cjwatson> we need him for a completed vote anyway, so I guess we have to wait
[17:07] <persia> [VOTE] Confirm Lorenzo De Liso (BlackZ) as MOTU
[17:07] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Lorenzo De Liso (BlackZ) as MOTU.
[17:07] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:07] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:08] <geser> +1
[17:08] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:08] <persia> +1
[17:08] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:08] <cjwatson> +1
[17:08] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:08] <stgraber> +1
[17:08] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[17:08] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[17:08] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[17:08] <persia> BlackZ: Congratulations!
[17:09] <BlackZ> thanks all
[17:09] <persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Elliot Murphy
[17:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Elliot Murphy
[17:09] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/3rdDeveloperApplication
[17:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ElliotMurphy/3rdDeveloperApplication
[17:10] <statik> hello
[17:10] <persia> statik: Welcome back
[17:10] <statik> after seeing the NetworkManager packageset creation, I think I should defer the PPU application portion and come back with a proposal for an Ubuntu One packageset. I would like to be considered for MOTU at this time
[17:11] <statik> thanks persia
[17:11] <persia> statik: OK.  We'll only consider the MOTU portion of things today.
[17:12] <statik> cool
[17:13] <nigelb> g33
[17:13] <geser> does someone remember the reason why the last MOTU application got declined?
[17:14] <cjwatson> it was just "come back with a bit more breadth", wasn't it?
[17:14] <persia> MY memory is that we didn't confirm due to lack of breadth at that time.
[17:14] <geser> ok
[17:14] <statik> it was a split vote, with a suggestion that i return after getting experience
[17:15] <persia> statik: james_w's testimonial suggests you would improve with a bit more experience.  Do you feel that this experience is better gained before becoming MOTU, or whilst MOTU?  If the latter, how would you expect to handle cases where you're uncertain?
[17:15]  * cjwatson idly wonders who couldn't improve with experience ...
[17:15]  * persia suspects nobody
[17:16] <statik> persia: that testimonial is from my prior application, so i've learned a fair amount since then. I am very comfortable stopping and asking for help when i encounter something new or am uncertain about the implications of an upload
[17:18] <statik> the best way to improve judgement is to gain experience in a safe environment, and I feel comfortable asking for MOTU rights now even though for some parts of universe I would seek review/advice from other developers before breaking things
[17:20] <persia> Anyone else have more questions?
[17:21] <cjwatson> nope
[17:22] <stgraber> nope
[17:22] <geser> nope
[17:22] <persia> [VOTE] Confirm Elliot Murphy (statik) as MOTU
[17:22] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Elliot Murphy (statik) as MOTU.
[17:22] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:22] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:23] <cjwatson> +1
[17:23] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:23] <stgraber> +1
[17:23] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:23] <geser> +1
[17:23] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:24] <persia> +1
[17:24] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[17:24] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[17:24] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[17:24] <persia> statik: Congratulations, and thanks for your persistence and patience.
[17:25] <persia> [TOPIC] Sugar Package Set definition
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sugar Package Set definition
[17:25] <persia> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000088.html
[17:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-July/000088.html
[17:26] <statik> thanks everyone
[17:26] <lfaraone> Basically, the rationale for the package set is explained in that post.
[17:27] <lfaraone> There is already a team of people interested in packaging Sugar for Ubuntu, ~sugarteam. Right now, I'm the only one in the team who is a MOTU, and at this time we don't have anyone else I'd recommend for adding to the set at this time, but I'm working on mentoring the other team members until we're ready to have more people uploading without sponsorship to SUgar.
[17:27] <cjwatson> this is simultaneously requesting access to that set for ubuntu-sugar-uploaders, right?
[17:28] <cjwatson> that team would need to become administered only by the DMB, I believe
[17:28] <cjwatson> (full delegation is generally a later step)
[17:28] <persia> lfaraone: How many of the 57 folks in ~sugarteam would you expect to be interested in uploading directly to this package set?
[17:28] <lfaraone> cjwatson: yes, I was going to transfer it to the DMB after a decision on the set's status, I can do it now if you'd prefer.
[17:28] <cjwatson> no, later is fine
[17:28] <cjwatson> I mean post-approval anyway
[17:29] <lfaraone> persia: 10, based on a quick review of the membership.
[17:30] <persia> That's certainly enough I'd not want to be processing them all as (potentially overlapping) PPU applicants :)
[17:32] <cjwatson> so I understand the package list to be: libmoosex-has-sugar-perl python-sugar-0.88 python-sugar-toolkit-0.88 sugar-artwork-0.88 sugar-calculate-activity sugar-chat-activity-0.86 sugar-connect-activity sugar-emulator-0.88 sugar-flipsticks-activity sugar-jigsawpuzzle-activity sugar-logviewer-activity sugar-memorize-activity sugar-pippy-activity sugar-pollbuilder-activity sugar-presence-service-0.88 sugar-read-activity ...
[17:32] <persia> Anyone have questions about the set of included packages or rationale for a packageset?
[17:32] <cjwatson> ... sugar-read-activity-0.86 sugar-session-0.88 sugar-sliderpuzzle-activity sugar-terminal-activity sugar-tools-0.88 sugar-turtleart-activity
[17:32] <cjwatson> which all seem reasonably leaf
[17:33] <cjwatson> (grep-aptavail -nsPackage -P sugar- -o -FMaintainer debian-olpc-devel)
[17:33] <lfaraone> cjwatson: not libmoosex-has-sugar-perl, that's just similarly named.
[17:33] <persia> There's an attachment at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt with a list, which includes a few more
[17:33] <cjwatson> oh right, insufficient regex
[17:34] <cjwatson> and improving the Maintainer yields a few more
[17:34] <cjwatson> grep-aptavail -nsPackage -Pr ^sugar- -o -FMaintainer,Original-Maintainer debian-olpc-devel
[17:34] <lfaraone> cjwatson: I'm also including etoys (which is primarily used as a sugar activity, but is also available standalone) and squeak-vm (VM for etoys, and etoys is it's primary user)
[17:34] <cjwatson> whence matchbox-window-manager?
[17:35] <lfaraone> cjwatson: matchbox is included because it was the default window manager for Sugar. As of 0.86 (IIRC) we're using metacity, so this isn't critical.
[17:36] <cjwatson> I'm not too concerned since it doesn't look like anything else is using it; just checking rationale
[17:36] <cjwatson> no more questions
[17:36] <cjwatson> (and running out of time, I have a feeling they're going to throw us out of here soon)
[17:36] <persia> geser: stgraber ?
[17:36] <geser> no questions
[17:36] <stgraber> looks good, no question
[17:37] <persia> [VOTE] A Sugar packageset to be defined containing the packages listed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt
[17:37] <MootBot> Please vote on:  A Sugar packageset to be defined containing the packages listed at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/attachments/20100718/60cf2194/attachment.txt.
[17:37] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:37] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:37] <persia> +1
[17:37] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:37] <cjwatson> +1
[17:37] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:38] <stgraber> +1
[17:38] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:38] <geser> +1
[17:38] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[17:38] <nixternal> +1
[17:38] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[17:38] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[17:38] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[17:38] <nixternal> :)
[17:38] <stgraber> hey nixternal
[17:38] <nixternal> hola
[17:38] <persia> [ACTION] lfarone to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-sugar-uploaders to the DMB
[17:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lfarone to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-sugar-uploaders to the DMB
[17:39] <lfaraone> Cool. I think python-sugar-0.88 python-sugar-toolkit-0.88  were omitted from that list, but I take it that the approval covers everything maintained by debian-olpc, in that list, or matching sugar-*?
[17:39] <lfaraone> *and/or
[17:39] <cjwatson> that's what I intended, per your mail
[17:40] <cjwatson> anyway, approval is by source package
[17:41] <cjwatson> and those are Source: sugar-base-0.88 and sugar-toolkit-0.88 respectively
[17:41] <cjwatson> so they're covered
[17:41] <lfaraone> Great. Ownership transfered.
[17:41] <cjwatson> persia's laptop has fallen over again
[17:41] <cjwatson> I suggest that we defer ubuntu-server-dev 'til next week, since this meeting is running very late and that application was only very recent anyway,iirc
[17:43] <geser> yes, I added it today
[17:43] <cjwatson> one more thing, nigelb asked that the chair remember to CC news-team (as well as all the others) on new-developer announcements in future; apparently the news-team folks are reluctant to follow other lists
[17:43] <stgraber> agreed. My bus is also about to arrive to its destination so I'm not going to be around for much longer.
[17:43] <geser> cjwatson: do we need to vote/discuss anything about the ubuntu-server-dev team? the mails reads to me that only the team ownership needs to be taken over by the DMB right now
[17:44] <cjwatson> I think the mail was really requesting that it be given access to the ubuntu-server package set
[17:44] <cjwatson> first para
[17:44] <nigelb> cjwatson: its not a question of reluctance.  Mostly manpower issues.  We have a rotating staff based on who has time.
[17:44] <cjwatson> nigelb: reluctance can arise from various other reasons. :-)
[17:45] <persia> [ACTION]  cjwatson to create sugar packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
[17:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:   cjwatson to create sugar packageset and associated development group in launchpad.
[17:45] <cjwatson> nigelb: surprised you don't already follow ubuntu-devel-announce, mind
[17:45] <cjwatson> (you plural)
[17:45] <persia> #endmeeting
[17:45] <akgraner> cjwatson, I follow that list
[17:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:45.
[17:45] <persia> Sorry :)
[17:45] <cjwatson> all new developer announcements go to ubuntu-devel-announce, I believe
[17:45] <cjwatson> as well as others
[17:45] <stgraber> just wondering, can team administrators add new members on LP ? IIRC they can but can't add other administrators
[17:46] <persia> stgraber: I think that's right: I think only owners can add admins
[17:46] <stgraber> ok, so should we change lfaraone to only be a member of sugar contributors ? as it'll be the DMB approving new members for now ?
[17:46] <akgraner> cjwatson, I'll go back through and look  - but I know we are missing reporting on some new members and I am keen to make sure if at all possible we have a back up to ensure we don't overlook highlighting those folks that's all :-)
[17:46] <nigelb> cjwatson: you want to take the discussion to the list?
[17:48] <cjwatson> nigelb: I don't really care that much
[17:48] <cjwatson> just offering token resistance to CCing yet another list :-
[17:48] <cjwatson> :-)
[17:48] <cjwatson> stgraber: yes
[17:49] <cjwatson> right, got to go
[17:49] <nigelb> ah. suggested course of action in that case?
[17:51]  * persia suspects "got to go" was a hard deadline in this case.
[17:52] <stgraber> updated lfaraone membership in sugar uploaders
[17:52] <persia> Probably best to make a request to the developer-membership-board@l.u.c ML, detaiing formats, frequency, etc.  We'll argue about it and end up with some considered response and recommendation.
[17:54] <stgraber> ok, got to go too
[18:18] <lfaraone>  /part
[20:15] <legreffier> hello!
[20:17] <YoBoY> hi legreffier :)
[20:37] <huats> hi legreffier
[20:37] <czajkowski> and so the invasion begins
[20:39] <YoBoY> it's not an invasion yet
[20:40] <mhall119> oh no, are the French on an empire kick again?
[20:41] <czajkowski> mhall119: they're up for reapproval
[20:41] <czajkowski> and I've warned them no bringing 5K people in here
[20:41]  * legreffier summons piqure and ubotu-fr 
[20:41] <czajkowski> we'll never get any work done
[20:42] <YoBoY> i haven't called the entire french community, only some active members
[20:43] <YoBoY> they helped me to write the approval page
[20:53] <popey> evening
[20:53] <YoBoY> hi popey
[20:53] <czajkowski> aloha folks
[20:53] <glogiotatidis> hello everyone
[20:54] <YoBoY> hi glogiotatidis
[20:54] <piti> hi there
[20:54] <YoBoY> hi piti
[20:54] <Seveas> heya
[20:54] <SWAT> evenink
[20:54] <alkisg> Hi people
[20:55] <nhandler> o/
[20:57] <huats> hello everyone
[20:57] <AlanBell> o/
[20:57] <h3adl3ss> hi all
[20:58] <Seveas> had to run for 15 minutes to catch the train I am in now so I could sit down and brung up the 3G connection :)
[20:58] <itnet7> Hey there!
[20:59] <popey> Seveas: dedication
[20:59] <Seveas> popey, no, dinner
[20:59] <SWAT> Seveas: free exercise, stop complaining
[20:59] <Seveas> work dinner, political issue :()
[21:00] <czajkowski> #startmeeting
[21:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.
[21:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:00] <czajkowski> Aloha folks
[21:00] <Seveas> hi czajkowski
[21:00] <popey> hey hey
[21:00] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:00] <popey> what a packed schedule!
[21:00] <czajkowski> Tonights agenda  will be in  running order of what is on the agenda linked above
[21:00] <popey> we need to keep it nice and tight tonight!
[21:01] <czajkowski> indeed
[21:01] <huats> so let's start !
[21:01] <czajkowski> itnet7: huats popey leogg all ready
[21:01] <huats> sure
[21:01] <itnet7> yes'm
[21:01] <czajkowski> [topic] Romanian Re Approval
[21:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Romanian Re Approval
[21:01] <YoBoY> miss paultag
[21:01] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:02] <czajkowski> anyone here for the Romanian LoCo ?
[21:02] <popey> anyone here from Romania!?
[21:02] <marianvasile> yes, we are
[21:02] <marianvasile> unfortunatelly, our leader, AdiRoiban, seems to be catch elswere
[21:03] <czajkowski> marianvasile: anyone else where with you ?
[21:03] <paultag|remote> sorry im latte
[21:04] <marianvasile> I saw DoruHush to be present as well
[21:04] <czajkowski> marianvasile: are you able to answer question on the re approval ?
[21:04] <huats> I have to say that adi wasn't sure he could attend onight, and they agreed to be here tonight
[21:04] <czajkowski> ok
[21:04] <czajkowski> [action] LoCo council to take Romanian Application to email
[21:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LoCo council to take Romanian Application to email
[21:05] <czajkowski> [topic] LithuanianTeam Re approval
[21:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  LithuanianTeam Re approval
[21:05] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[21:05] <sirex`> Lithuanina team leader is here.
[21:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[21:05] <czajkowski> sirex`: hey there! welcome
[21:05] <sirex`> Hi.
[21:06] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam
[21:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam
[21:06] <czajkowski> sirex`: so care to tell us about your team
[21:06] <sirex`> Well in these two years we where active.
[21:07] <sirex`> Some key details I wrote to re-approval application.
[21:07] <czajkowski> I notice you've not had any meetings in 2010, why is this?
[21:08] <czajkowski> you had up till now
[21:08] <sirex`> Lithuaniant LoCo is growing and we plant to grow more in future.
[21:08] <czajkowski> sirex`: and how do you plan on doing that ?
[21:09] <czajkowski> sirex`: are there more here tonight from your team ?
[21:09] <sirex`> czajkowski: we have some IRC meetings, but after our previous team leader left us, our loco changed his behaviour.
[21:09] <czajkowski> ah ok, what happened?
[21:10] <huats> what are the differences in the behaviour?
[21:10] <sirex`> We had IRC meetings each month, but it was changed by just activity in forums.
[21:11] <huats> sirex`,  so now you have meetings in forums ?
[21:11] <huats> do you have url of that ?
[21:11] <sirex`> Also we joint AKL (association Open Source for Lithuania).
[21:11] <czajkowski> sirex`: do you organise release parties?
[21:12] <sirex`> huats: now meetings ar irregual, befor ubuntu releases or other events that we organizing.
[21:12] <leogg> sirex`: do you have any minutes of the meetings?
[21:13] <sirex`> leogg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LithuanianTeam/Susitikimai/Sekantis
[21:13] <huats> sirex`, I mean your are saying that your IRC meetings are replaced by forum activity, do you track this activity in a dedicated part of the forum ?
[21:13] <sirex`> czajkowski: yes, we do.
[21:14] <leogg> sirex`: thank you!
[21:14] <sirex`> huats: now, thes activities ar untracked and irregular.
[21:14] <huats> ok
[21:14] <sirex`> czajkowski: photos from release parties: http://www.facebook.com/ubuntu.lt?v=photos
[21:14] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Lithuania LoCo.  Only Council members vote please.
[21:15] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Lithuania LoCo.  Only Council members vote please..
[21:15] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:15] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:15] <paultag|remote> sirex` how does your team take advantage of official loco resource?
[21:16] <czajkowski> -1
[21:16] <MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[21:16] <sirex`> paultag|remote: it helped to get official approved one of lithuanian ubuntu mirrors.
[21:16] <czajkowski> itnet7: huats popey paultag|remote leogg
[21:16] <MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 2 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[21:16] <popey> -1 from me, because I'd like to see more activity
[21:16] <MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[21:17] <leogg> I think your team has made a great job so far, but we need to see more recent activity
[21:17] <MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 3 against. 1 abstained. Count is now -3
[21:17] <leogg> -1
[21:17] <MootBot> -1 received from leogg. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
[21:17] <MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 5 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now -5
[21:17] <huats> -1 I'd like to see something more structured too
[21:18] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:18] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 5 against. 1 abstained. Total: -5
[21:19] <czajkowski> sirex`: I'm sorry at present we don't feel there is enough activity, perhaps after this meeting we can talk about how we cna help you
[21:19] <sirex`> Ok.
[21:19] <czajkowski> [action] LocO council to follow up with sirex` and help with some pointers.
[21:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  LocO council to follow up with sirex` and help with some pointers.
[21:19] <czajkowski> [topic] Massachusetts Team Re approval
[21:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Massachusetts Team Re approval
[21:19] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[21:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[21:20] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
[21:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
[21:20] <paultag|remote> no doctormo?
[21:20] <czajkowski> hmm no team contact listed
[21:20] <paultag|remote> cz- its doc-mo
[21:20] <czajkowski> no lp info, mailing list, etc lised
[21:20] <czajkowski> paultag|remote: aye I know but still the applicaton is a bit bare
[21:21] <huats> I agree, the application don't looks good at all for me
[21:21] <czajkowski> anyone else here from the  Ma LoCo ?
[21:21] <leogg> no relevant links on the application?
[21:21] <czajkowski> 3 links on the Ma appliction
[21:21] <paultag|remote> im in the loco
[21:21] <paultag|remote> i dont think info was passed on
[21:22] <czajkowski> well that's not a great sign now
[21:22] <paultag|remote> can we delay one meeting?
[21:22] <czajkowski> paultag|remote: itnet7 leogg huats popey shall we take this to the mailing list aslo ?
[21:22] <czajkowski> *also
[21:22] <paultag|remote> +1
[21:22] <popey> yes
[21:22] <huats> +1 to me
[21:22] <itnet7> Yes
[21:22] <leogg> +1
[21:22] <popey> I'm sure they do great work
[21:22] <popey> its just documenting it :)
[21:22] <czajkowski> [action] Massachusetts Team to be done via email
[21:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Massachusetts Team to be done via email
[21:23] <huats> but I really think that we need to stress that is not  a really good behviour
[21:23] <czajkowski> [topic] Italy Loco re Approval
[21:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Italy Loco re Approval
[21:23] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[21:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
[21:23] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam
[21:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam
[21:24] <czajkowski> ok please tell me there is a team contact for this loco present
[21:24] <Gwaihir> yep
[21:24] <Gwaihir> it's me
[21:24] <huats> great Gwaihir
[21:24] <Gwaihir> actually, I'm not really the team contact
[21:24] <paultag|remote> better then MA already :)
[21:24] <czajkowski> it is saying mathew east, hence my confusion
[21:25] <itnet7> Hey there Milo!
[21:25] <Gwaihir> yes, mdke is, but he is kind of away since a while...
[21:25] <Gwaihir> we heard him last week, but then disappeared...
[21:25] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: was thrown with your nick :)
[21:25] <czajkowski> ok moving on so
[21:25] <Gwaihir> he's very busy with work
[21:25] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: care to tell us about your loco please
[21:25] <Gwaihir> yep
[21:26] <czajkowski> Thank you
[21:26] <Gwaihir> structure is similar to the international one
[21:26] <Gwaihir> we have an Italian Loco Council
[21:26] <Gwaihir> that used to be made of members of all the various team
[21:26] <Gwaihir> (translation, developers, docs, forum and IRC)
[21:26] <czajkowski> nice application for a starters :)
[21:27] <Gwaihir> we are kind of active in Italy, even if not that much due to the distance between all the active members
[21:27] <Gwaihir> we are scattered all other Italy, and that's not easy even to meet us in person twice a year
[21:28] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: how do you share roles out within your team ?
[21:28] <Gwaihir> the team is growing, we have new members coming in and joining the various working team
[21:28] <Gwaihir> czajkowski, what to you mean with that?
[21:28] <huats> Gwaihir, do you have an idea of the current growth ?
[21:28] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: how do you share out tasks, things that need to be done with people ?
[21:29] <Gwaihir> huats, no real data: we have almost two ubuntu-it members every month for example
[21:29] <czajkowski> wow
[21:29] <czajkowski> impressive
[21:29] <huats> terrific
[21:29] <Gwaihir> (ubuntu-it membership is like the ubuntu membership, only for italian people)
[21:29] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: can you tell us about that
[21:29] <czajkowski> what makes you qualify for it ?
[21:29] <Gwaihir> yeah, but people sometime disappear... :(
[21:30] <Gwaihir> czajkowski, you need to have done substantial "work" within the Italian community
[21:30] <Gwaihir> be it: IRC support, forum support, translations, packagin... whatever
[21:30] <Gwaihir> we ask people to track their work on a wiki page we can read
[21:30] <popey> I'm impressed with the ISO testing work the IT team has done
[21:31] <Gwaihir> and ask to find some people that can vouch form them when they apply
[21:31] <popey> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest is impressive stuff
[21:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest is impressive stuff
[21:31] <itnet7> ditto!
[21:31] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Italian LoCo. Only council members vote please
[21:31] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Italian LoCo. Only council members vote please.
[21:31] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:31] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:31] <czajkowski> +1
[21:31] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:31] <popey> +1
[21:31] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:31] <itnet7> And everyone I have met on their team have great attitudes toward collaboration,etc.
[21:32] <itnet7> +1
[21:32] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:32] <huats> +1
[21:32] <MootBot> +1 received from huats. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:32] <leogg> +1
[21:32] <czajkowski> easy great application and excellent activity
[21:32] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:32] <popey> You're doing great work and documenting it well and keeping people motivated
[21:32] <popey> great stuff!
[21:32] <huats> good work my friend Gwaihir
[21:32] <Gwaihir> thanks all! :-)
[21:32] <czajkowski> paultag|remote: VOTE
[21:32] <paultag|remote> +1
[21:32] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag|remote. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[21:32] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:32] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[21:32] <popey> woot
[21:33] <paultag|remote> sorrrry!!!
[21:33] <popey> great work, keep it up!
[21:33] <leogg> really nice work Gwaihir !
[21:33] <czajkowski> Whoo congrats
[21:33] <Gwaihir> thank you!
[21:33] <paultag|remote> grats gw!
[21:33] <huats> congrats
[21:33] <itnet7> Congrats to your entire team!!! Give Paulo *hugs* :-)
[21:33] <czajkowski> [topic] French Team Re Approval
[21:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  French Team Re Approval
[21:33] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:33]  * popey mutes huats 
[21:33] <YoBoY> lol
[21:33] <itnet7> lol
[21:33] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam
[21:33] <kinouchou> :)$
[21:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam
[21:33] <huats> :)
[21:33] <YoBoY> French team is here :D
[21:33] <czajkowski> Ayone here for the french team...
[21:33] <huats> Me too I am here
[21:34] <leogg> nice application!
[21:34] <kinouchou> yes, czajkowski we are here
[21:34] <czajkowski> WOW nice appliction
[21:34] <paultag|remote> heck yeah leo :)
[21:34] <czajkowski> kinouchou: hey!!!
[21:34] <itnet7> Very nice application YoBoY !
[21:34] <czajkowski> doc is bloody active in -community-team
[21:34] <YoBoY> itnet7: thanks i try to put a lot of images :p
[21:35] <doctormo> did I miss something?
[21:35] <huats> YoBoY, you go on the french presentation ?
[21:35] <czajkowski> YoBoY: so care to tell us about your team
[21:35] <czajkowski> and how you are so organised
[21:35] <YoBoY> yes
[21:35]  * tshirtman here too
[21:35] <YoBoY> Hi
[21:35] <YoBoY> The French LocoTeam is a big team with lot of different activities.
[21:35] <YoBoY> We have a website, a french (like in french speaking) documentation, a forum, and a planet. Theses sites are all maintened b the french community with members all around the world.
[21:35] <YoBoY> We have also a lot of irl activities, you know our parties are great with 5k people when Mark came to see us. We also make French Live CDs, with 9000 CDs produced for the 10.04LTS version and shipped all around the world.
[21:35] <YoBoY> We help the Frenchs Ubuntu user groups in France with goodies and promotion. We go every where when we are invited. The last event was a musical event last week for example.
[21:35] <YoBoY> ... and much more :p
[21:35] <paultag|remote> doctormo: day late, dollar short
[21:36] <YoBoY> the organisation is made with the help of mailing lists, and irc channels
[21:36] <kinouchou> hello all
[21:37] <tshirtman> (procuded CDS are almost already all sold/distributed)
[21:37]  * zed is here too (with a bit of lag)
[21:37]  * poupoul2 too ;)
[21:37] <YoBoY> i have listed all the lists and channels on the approval page, you can also see the activity
[21:37]  * kanor is here
[21:37]  * SpiNeAkeR too
[21:38] <YoBoY> (my team need coffe ^^")
[21:38] <popey> I am honestly blown away
[21:38] <leogg> YoBoY: this is really impressive!
[21:38] <czajkowski> YoBoY: so your team has done very well, how do you think you'll be able to keep this up for the future
[21:38] <czajkowski> Do you encounter obsticles?
[21:38] <YoBoY> well... yes, we have difficulties some times
[21:38] <czajkowski> oh do share
[21:39] <paultag|remote> besides finding venues ;)
[21:39] <YoBoY> but we always come to a solution
[21:39] <leogg> YoBoY: how do you get funds for your activities?
[21:40] <YoBoY> for example the last one was our host ubuntu-eu ...
[21:40] <YoBoY> we had to migrate all the forum to personnal servers
[21:40] <YoBoY> and we have some bugs yet with this migration ^^"
[21:40] <YoBoY> leogg: with the sell of goodies and donations
[21:41] <YoBoY> yes finding bug venues is difficult :p
[21:41] <czajkowski> ok I think we;re ready to vote
[21:41] <leogg> YoBoY: nice!
[21:41] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the French LoCo. Only Council members vote.
[21:41] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the French LoCo. Only Council members vote..
[21:41] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:41] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:41] <popey> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:41] <czajkowski> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:41] <itnet7> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:41] <popey> easy!
[21:41] <leogg> +1
[21:41] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:41] <popey> keep doing fantastic work!
[21:41] <YoBoY> :D
[21:41] <kinouchou> :)
[21:41] <itnet7> paultag|remote: ?
[21:41] <YoBoY> we try our best
[21:41] <leogg> really, really impressive!
[21:42] <doctormo> YoBoY: Yes, keep making us all jealous ;-)
[21:42] <YoBoY> lol
[21:42] <YoBoY> sorry :p
[21:42] <tshirtman> it's hard to manage such a big community ^^
[21:42]  * YoBoY hugs doctormo 
[21:42] <huats> +0
[21:42] <MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:42] <huats> I can't vote :)
[21:43] <czajkowski> and paultag|remote did +1
[21:43] <czajkowski> +1
[21:43] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:43] <doctormo> +1
[21:43] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
[21:43] <czajkowski> congrats France
[21:43] <doctormo> Odd voting thing
[21:43] <YoBoY> thanks :)
[21:43] <kinouchou> thanks
[21:43] <czajkowski> [action] huats to update the LP with teams Approval/Re approval and non approval date
[21:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  huats to update the LP with teams Approval/Re approval and non approval date
[21:43] <czajkowski> huats: I need to give you some work :p
[21:43] <huats> czajkowski, sure :)
[21:44] <huats> I will
[21:44] <popey> yeah, like he hasnt done enough! :)
[21:44] <huats> thanks
[21:44] <czajkowski> [topic] Greek Team Approval
[21:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Greek Team Approval
[21:44] <glogiotatidis> hello everyone
[21:44] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
[21:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam/ApprovalApplication2010
[21:44] <huats> I have no choice since you do that after that vote czajkowski :)
[21:44] <itnet7> Hey there glogiotatidis !
[21:44] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
[21:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
[21:45] <czajkowski> huats: thanks :)
[21:45] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: hey welcome
[21:45] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: nice appliction
[21:45] <glogiotatidis> thank you ;)
[21:45] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: care to tel us about your team
[21:46] <glogiotatidis> of course
[21:46] <glogiotatidis> This is our second approval, we have been an official team for many years. We have very active foums and mailing lists (counting more than 5500 members in total).
[21:46] <glogiotatidis> This year we achieved a full translation of the ubuntu manual and we are very proud of it. Many team members cooperated to achive that. We also translated the ubuntu brochure.
[21:46] <glogiotatidis> Another important activity of the community is Ubuntistas, our magazine, inspired by Full Circle. It is (almost) bi-monthly -we have 8 issues in the last 2 years- with original content written by the team members.
[21:46] <glogiotatidis> We also participate in the annual FOSSCOMM, a FLOSS conference held by the greek communities with a booth and talks.
[21:47] <glogiotatidis> Besides these we hold parties on every release, we maintain a website, a wiki page, we ship cds all around Greece and we have mebers activelly promoting ubuntu and floss in digital and real life.
[21:47] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: impressive, can you tell me a bit more about your magazine the artwork looks great
[21:47] <huats> czajkowski, +1
[21:47] <glogiotatidis> the artwork is created by the team members
[21:48] <glogiotatidis> the whole magazine is organized in our forums
[21:48] <glogiotatidis> people are responsible for the editorial, the artwork, the content
[21:48] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: you should tell UWN (ubuntu weekly newsletter) about this
[21:48] <glogiotatidis> czajkowski, we will, thnx ;)
[21:48] <huats> can you say more about the brochure ? I am sure it would be great to translate it
[21:48] <czajkowski> glogiotatidis: are there many more of your team here, I do appreciate not everyone speaks English
[21:49]  * BlackFate here
[21:49] <simosx> hi from the greek team :-)
[21:49]  * alkisg raises hand
[21:49] <h3adl3ss> here too,hi all
[21:49] <c7p> hi all
[21:49] <czajkowski> ah good stuff welcome
[21:49] <BlackFate> and kostkon
[21:49] <popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html
[21:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html
[21:49] <BlackFate> he is shy
[21:49] <popey> Greek in the top 20 translations!
[21:49] <huats> glogiotatidis, about the brochure ?
[21:49] <czajkowski> wow
[21:50] <glogiotatidis> Yes pretty active translation team
[21:50] <popey> great work
[21:50] <c7p> well the brochure started as a translation of a brochure from spreadubuntu and then we worked more on it
[21:50] <glogiotatidis> huats, you can find the brochure here http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/el/material/brochure/%CF%86%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BF-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%8E%CE%B8%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7%CF%82-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85-ubuntu
[21:50] <simosx> we did the remaining ubuntu-specific packages last April.
[21:50] <popey> gorgeous url ;)
[21:51] <maco> wow....mod_rewrite?
[21:51] <Seveas> no, just greek characters
[21:51] <huats> gilir, you should try to have an english version
[21:51] <Seveas> the http rfc is too ascii-centric :)
[21:51] <huats> si that other team can translate it
[21:51] <glogiotatidis> popey, erm sorry for that, greek characters in there ;)
[21:51] <alkisg> Having greek characters on the url is good for SEO :)
[21:51] <popey> :D no need to apologise :)
[21:51] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Greek Team Re Approval. Only council members vote
[21:51] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Greek Team Re Approval. Only council members vote.
[21:51] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:51] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:51] <itnet7> +1
[21:51] <MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:51] <huats> +1
[21:51] <MootBot> +1 received from huats. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:51] <czajkowski> +1
[21:51] <popey> +1
[21:51] <MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:51] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:52] <paultag|remote> +0
[21:52] <MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[21:52] <leogg> +1
[21:52] <MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[21:52] <paultag|remote> i was afk :)
[21:52] <huats> Please continue that way, and share your work with other teams in planet/identi.ca/uwn ....
[21:52] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[21:52] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
[21:52] <czajkowski> Congrats to the Greek Team !
[21:52] <czajkowski> well done
[21:52] <huats> congrats !
[21:52] <popey> congratulations, fantastic work Team Greece!
[21:52] <itnet7> Very good job glogiotatidis, congrats to you and your team!
[21:52] <simosx> Thanks!
[21:52] <glogiotatidis> Thank you everyone ;)
[21:52] <kinouchou> congrats
[21:52] <czajkowski> Thank you and please do tell the UWN about your great magazine!!
[21:52] <huats> Please continue that way, and share your work with other teams in planet/identi.ca/uwn ....
[21:53] <czajkowski> [topic] Egypt Team Approval
[21:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Egypt Team Approval
[21:53] <glogiotatidis> czajkowski, ok next uwn gets this ;)
[21:53] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
[21:53] <thelinuxer> here
[21:53] <Sensiva> here
[21:53] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam
[21:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam
[21:53] <czajkowski> nice detailed applicton
[21:53] <czajkowski> makes our job a lot easier :)
[21:53] <Sensiva> :D
[21:54] <thelinuxer> u should thank Sensiva for this :)
[21:54] <czajkowski> Sensiva: very nice
[21:54] <Sensiva> I was practicing wiki markup, that's all
[21:54] <Sensiva> :p
[21:54] <Sensiva> ty thelinuxer czajkowski
[21:54] <czajkowski> ok so can you tell us about your team, and how you are organised
[21:54] <czajkowski> Do you do monthly reports?
[21:54] <thelinuxer> ok
[21:55] <thelinuxer> our team started 3 years ago with no much activity
[21:55] <thelinuxer> in the last few month we revived the team and started by organizing meeting in coffee shops ..etc
[21:55] <thelinuxer> we then tried to organize events but had problems finding venues
[21:56] <thelinuxer> lately we are trying to collaborate with other technology groups to help us find venues and to assist them in their events
[21:56] <thelinuxer> the structure is simple, everyone owns his ideas
[21:56] <thelinuxer> and he has to follow up on people to make sure that the work is done
[21:57] <thelinuxer> also we created the website and we will have different roles like moderator, translators ..etc
[21:57] <thelinuxer> does this answer ur question ?
[21:57] <huats> I am quite surprised : you mention a youtube channel : when I look at it the various videos has been put last week... The blog you mention contains no post...
[21:57] <huats> can you explain this ?
[21:57] <thelinuxer> yes i can
[21:58] <thelinuxer> it's still under development, small bugs here and there
[21:58] <thelinuxer> also i am waiting for the approval to user the ubuntu-eg.org domain
[21:58] <thelinuxer> the current url is only temp
[21:58] <huats> ok
[21:59] <czajkowski> can you tell us if you've had any problems in the past and how you've overcome them ?
[21:59] <thelinuxer> yes we had a couple of problems
[21:59] <Sensiva> video upload was delayed because I didn't have a good upstream to upload until last week
[21:59] <czajkowski> thelinuxer: such as ?
[21:59] <thelinuxer> we had HardDisk who tried to take credit for the whole team work, he wanted to become an ubuntu member without doing anything
[21:59] <thelinuxer> he was banned from the team for that
[22:00] <thelinuxer> cause we don't tolerate such actions
[22:00] <paultag|cell> ah yes i recall that
[22:00] <czajkowski> how long for ?
[22:00] <Sensiva> he choosed to leave, and he handed over various accounts after leaving the team
[22:01] <thelinuxer> czajkowski: sorry didn't understand the question
[22:01] <Sensiva> wordpress, and ubuntueg at youtube
[22:01] <czajkowski> is he baned for good, or for a short time?
[22:01] <Sensiva> it was supposed to be for short time, but HardDisk choosed to leave the team
[22:01] <thelinuxer> well as Sensiva said we gave him a chance to answer people's questions on the mailing list and defend himself
[22:01] <leogg> thelinuxer: In your application you have a lot of nice ideas, but I'd like to see more action
[22:02] <thelinuxer> leogg: some of the stuff mentioned in the roadmap is already being done
[22:02] <czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Approval of the Egypt LoCo.  Only Council members vote
[22:02] <MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Approval of the Egypt LoCo.  Only Council members vote.
[22:02] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:02] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:02] <paultag|cell> +1
[22:02] <MootBot> +1 received from paultag|cell. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:02] <thelinuxer> like P4Y and Ain shams events
[22:02] <czajkowski> +0
[22:02] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:02] <czajkowski> leogg: itnet7 huats popey
[22:03] <huats> +0 for me I'd like to see you back here in a few times
[22:03] <MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:03] <leogg> +0 from me, I'd would like to see more
[22:03] <MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 1 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:03] <huats> to see your progress
[22:03] <popey> +0
[22:03] <MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:03] <itnet7> +0
[22:03] <MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 1
[22:03] <popey> I agree, I'd like to see some months of activity then get you back to talk about it
[22:03] <huats> I am sure you are doing good,but I'd like to see that !
[22:03] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[22:03] <MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 1
[22:03] <thelinuxer> ok gr8 no problem :)
[22:03] <czajkowski> [action] council to follow up with the Egypt Team and give them some help
[22:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  council to follow up with the Egypt Team and give them some help
[22:03] <thelinuxer> we are here to get guidance
[22:03] <Sensiva> Would you please define "How much more" ?
[22:04] <paultag|cell> :)
[22:04] <czajkowski> thelinuxer: Sensiva this is not a reflection on you, we'd just like to see some more work
[22:04] <itnet7> I do think that all of you have done a wonderful job despite your setbacks
[22:04] <czajkowski> we'll help you and give you some pointers via email ok
[22:04] <Sensiva> czajkowski we totally understand , it was expected :D
[22:04] <paultag|cell> some help would  be good  but good job so far
[22:04] <czajkowski> Sensiva: thanks
[22:04] <leogg> I agree, you're all doing a great work
[22:04] <thelinuxer> ok gr8, thanx everyone :)
[22:05] <czajkowski> [topic] Dutch Team Re Approval
[22:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Dutch Team Re Approval
[22:05] <huats> let's say that wit that vote we are sure to try to help you doing great stuffs
[22:05] <Seveas> hello
[22:05] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamApprovalApplication
[22:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamApprovalApplication
[22:05] <huats> hi Seveas
[22:05] <SWAT> hi there
[22:05] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeam
[22:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeam
[22:05] <Seveas> Coming live from a concrete block outside a police station
[22:05] <Seveas> Good evening! Myself (Dennis Kaarsemaker) and SWAT (Sebastian Schauenburg) are here representing the dutch locoteam. We are one of the oldest LoCoTeams in the book and have been active since 2004. We have organized release parties for every release since 5.04 and presentations since about the same time. At the moment the LoCo revolves mostly around our forum, but we are planning more international
[22:05] <Seveas>  activity. We have our website (www.ubuntu-nl.org), wiki (wiki.ubuntu-nl.org), irc channel (#ubuntu-nl) and mailinglist (ubuntu-nl at lists.ubuntu.com) where we support users and we also have a map of local supportpoints (kaart.ubuntu-nl.org) for even more direct support. Highlights of our team are the 8.04 and 10.04 releaseparties that attracted hundreds of people and were packed with user suppor
[22:05] <Seveas> t, presentations and good conversations and that we secured sponsorship from a large ISP and a large hotels website for hosting and hardware. We are currently working on a roadmap to improve ourselves, while decreasing overhead time-investments and increasing motivation. We also have monthly (open and logged) IRC meetings where anybody can put items on the agenda: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/communi
[22:05] <Seveas> ty/Meetings
[22:06] <czajkowski> wow thanks Seveas :)
[22:06] <czajkowski> how goes the frysian team - Ubuntu-fy ?
[22:07] <Seveas> it's busy starting, Dooitze is creating pages on ubuntu-fy.org and the forum is seeing some activity
[22:07] <SWAT> slow but steady
[22:07] <Seveas> we're supporting them by hosting their environment
[22:07] <czajkowski> right.
[22:08] <czajkowski> Presentations and talks - Between 2004 and 2010, community members of Ubuntu NL have given talks about ubuntu on quite a few occasions. Audiences range from small to large companies, to local LUGs (HCC groups), schools and even hospital staff. Sadly most of these talks have not been recorded or photographed.
[22:08] <czajkowski> you mention above but there are no links to any presentations?
[22:08] <Seveas> I'm afraid not. I was fairly late with preparing our wikipage and couldn't find any links
[22:09] <popey> approval page is a bit lean..
[22:09] <huats> Have you any figures on the numbers of people involved in the LoCo ?
[22:09] <Seveas> a few dozen
[22:09] <huats> and the evolution of that number ?
[22:09] <huats> (over the time I mean)
[22:10] <czajkowski> As a mostly forum-based community, we do not track membership via launchpad and thus it is unclear how many members we have and who we count as members. As an indication, the forum has 20000+ registered accounts
[22:10] <Seveas> we are going through a bit of a rough period where some people on the forum seem hell-bent on killing the atmosphere, but there always have been active people, growing slowly
[22:10] <czajkowski> Does that mean your focus is mostly forums and not real life events? or online meetings/reports taking part in the ubuntu community
[22:10] <Seveas> recently the artwork team was created, adding half a dozen people
[22:10] <Seveas> the focus is mostly on forums and releaseparties
[22:11] <Seveas> though Sense is becoming more active internationally and the artwork team is trying to do so too
[22:11] <SWAT> and events (but mostly these are smaller)
[22:11] <czajkowski> Seveas: do you think your loco is fully aware of the greater Ubuntu communty ?
[22:11] <Seveas> czajkowski, no, there is definitely room for improvement there
[22:12] <SWAT> there is a huge language barrier, since everything we do (example right here) is in English and a lot of people are not proficient in it
[22:12] <czajkowski> I notice sense isn't here and he's rather vocal and very active as a community member. As is Seveas on boards, do you think others in yoru team would benefit from learning more about the community
[22:12] <czajkowski> how do you propse to do so if you thinkit would be wise ?
[22:13] <czajkowski> SWAT: true, but many people use a translator, and we are as others are very patient with people who don't speak english as their first language
[22:13] <Seveas> czajkowski, maybe yes, maybe no. Our activities revolve around local events and dutch support.
[22:13] <czajkowski> Seveas: I just don't see that on your appliction....
[22:14] <Seveas> I think sense is doing great work keeping tabs on the international community and I hope the artwork team will follow that example. That's where I see opportunities for integration with the global community.
[22:14] <leogg> Seveas: Do you have any links to the events? Besides http://www.releaseparty.eu/
[22:14] <SWAT> we notice that documentation in our native tongue is very important, since about everyone can understand them. So we're trying to keep that up. Even had a meeting a few hours ago about the manual project
[22:14] <czajkowski> SWAT: thats good
[22:14] <paultag|remote> what about the council
[22:14] <Seveas> leogg, releaseparty.eu is refreshed for every release, that's why it only has one release on there
[22:14] <paultag|remote> i heard the nl council quit on one day all together
[22:14] <popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html dutch is looking good there..
[22:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dpm/ubuntu-10.04-translation-stats.html dutch is looking good there..
[22:15] <paultag|remote> what was that about?
[22:15] <jpds> (The nl.archive.u.c guys are awesome).
[22:15] <czajkowski> jpds: it's all about the archives with you :)
[22:16] <czajkowski> 22:14 < paultag|remote> i heard the nl council quit on one day all together ??
[22:16] <czajkowski> can someone answer that ?
[22:16] <Seveas> paultag|remote, we have in the past had problems with problematic community members, causing much activity to move to closed parts of the forum. This is causing some disconnection between 'the team' and 'the community'. The council was one attempt to solve that, sadly that failed. We have some way to go there, but we have faced similar problems in the past and survived them.
[22:16] <Seveas> czajkowski, I was typing the answer :)
[22:17] <czajkowski> Seveas: thanks
[22:17] <paultag|remote> whats the plan going forward?
[22:17] <czajkowski> ok any more thoughts from the council or from Seveas SWAT ??
[22:17] <SWAT> we are trying to find a better way to handle this and they agreed. I talked to a couple of them during one of our events and we have the same mindset
[22:17] <Seveas> paultag|remote, that's not quite clear yet. This is a fairly recent development.
[22:17] <paultag|remote> OK, ty
[22:18] <czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the re approval of the Dutch LoCo. only Council members vote
[22:18] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the re approval of the Dutch LoCo. only Council members vote.
[22:18] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:18] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:18] <leogg> I'd like to see the activities better documented
[22:18] <popey> agreed
[22:19] <popey> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <czajkowski> I'd like to see more real life events or better documentaion of this happening.
[22:19] <leogg> +0
[22:19] <itnet7> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from itnet7. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <huats> I have been a bit disapointed by the lack of details on your application
[22:19] <paultag|remote> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <czajkowski> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <huats> +0
[22:19] <MootBot> Abstention received from huats. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:19] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[22:19] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 0
[22:19] <paultag|remote> im not happy but you show good work
[22:19] <czajkowski> Ok, at this time we've not been able to decide on your re approval
[22:20] <czajkowski> would it be possible to ask you to come back again next month or when there is more detail on your application
[22:20] <Seveas> sure
[22:20] <SWAT> sure, why not.
[22:20] <czajkowski> Thank you
[22:20] <czajkowski> I'd appreciate that
[22:20] <czajkowski> doctormo: are you free?
[22:20] <paultag|remote> thank you :)
[22:20] <doctormo> Yes
[22:20] <huats> Seveas, SWAT I really think that with a more detailled application everything will be fine
[22:20] <itnet7> Same with me
[22:21] <czajkowski> [topic] Massachusetts Team Re approval
[22:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Massachusetts Team Re approval
[22:21] <czajkowski> [topic] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[22:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[22:21] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[22:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/ReApproval2010
[22:21] <paultag|remote> ah yes ma
[22:21] <paultag|remote> my homeland :)
[22:21] <Seveas> process question: do we stay approved until a decision has been made?
[22:21] <czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
[22:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam
[22:21] <doctormo> Hello, I'm the offical contact for US-MA, leftyfb is currently a co-chair and he's in this meeting. *wave*
[22:22] <paultag|remote> seveas: yes
[22:22] <huats> Seveas, yes
[22:22] <doctormo> http://ubuntu-massachusetts.com
[22:22] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu-massachusetts.com
[22:22] <czajkowski> doctormo: well your re approval appliction is rather lacking
[22:22] <doctormo> czajkowski: I'm not here to ask for reaproval, I'm here to ask not to be.
[22:23] <huats> doctormo,  ?
[22:23] <czajkowski> does your team know about this
[22:23] <czajkowski> is this a team decision
[22:23] <huats> I think you are doing it the right way :(
[22:23] <doctormo> We do events, we use the resources we get from Canonical's shipit and it's all good. But the team is complacent, lazy, disorganised and I'm very unhappy with it.
[22:23] <doctormo> My attempt to step down as leader gracefully was met with massive amounts of resistance.
[22:23] <huats> doctormo, have you tried to change stuffs ?
[22:24] <czajkowski> well that's not very fair, at least you wanted to step down
[22:24] <huats> I mean besides steeping down
[22:24] <czajkowski> doctormo: can you at least give us some reasons why the team is so disorganised?
[22:24] <huats> doctormo, does leftyfb is aware ?
[22:24] <huats> since you mention that
[22:25] <doctormo> the problem is that there is no one else to fill the spot, the team doesn't have enough members to sustain anything worthwhile. But as the only functioning team in the New England area if we disband then that about wraps it up for Ubuntu.
[22:25] <czajkowski> doctormo: ok, see we don't know how many members there are,
[22:25] <popey> is it quite a small team relatively?
[22:25] <leftyfb> It's a revolving team
[22:25] <doctormo> I'd estimate about 12 members, 5 who do things.
[22:25] <huats> doctormo, these kind of figures should be on the application
[22:25] <leftyfb> lots of members have come and gone over the years
[22:25] <popey> wow, thats pretty small
[22:25] <doctormo> The Ubuntu Hours have been good actually, for team morale etc.
[22:26] <leftyfb> lots of fulltime working people with not much time on their hands
[22:26] <czajkowski> yup Ubuntu hours are great, there is little pressure on folks
[22:26] <leftyfb> most of the work has been done doctormo, myself and a few others
[22:26]  * paultag|remote is in ohio
[22:26] <popey> would running leaderless be an option?
[22:26] <leftyfb> This Ubuntu hour has been a new spark as of late
[22:26] <doctormo> But with no team meetings for going on 5 months, it's hard not to throw in the towel, we don't have the resources for this marlarky.
[22:26] <czajkowski> *nods*
[22:26] <czajkowski> I do understand
[22:26] <leftyfb> I don't agree on completely giving up though
[22:26] <czajkowski> right but do you need a team leader
[22:27] <huats> leftyfb, that was my question
[22:27] <popey> czajkowski: not really
[22:27] <huats> leftyfb, what is the reaction of the other people involved ?
[22:27] <czajkowski> could there just be a launchpad team contact
[22:27] <doctormo> leftyfb: I think we should do the hours, do the events we're going to do anyway. But we can't be a 'team' as just a straggle of people.
[22:27] <popey> they can run with a point of contact, but have the team semi-autonomous
[22:27] <czajkowski> and everyone share roles?
[22:27] <czajkowski> popey: that;s what I was getting at, am a slow typer :)
[22:27] <paultag|remote> im here to help in person until august
[22:28] <paultag|remote> end of august
[22:28] <czajkowski> doctormo: do you think us making the team an unapproved loco will change anything ?
[22:28] <leftyfb> huats: We don't know what others think since we have been lacking in meetings. IRC meetings have not been very successful. We used to have really good meetings in the past in person but we lost the resources to have those.
[22:28] <huats> doctormo, leftyfb when you said to the team that there was a reapproval approching, did you had any reaction ?
[22:29] <czajkowski> ok as a solution there would it help for the loco council to possibly idle in your irc channel, we have done for other teams and help
[22:29] <leftyfb> The only thing I think being unapproved will change is for us to have even less resources to do the few things we are in fact doing
[22:29] <huats> leftyfb, apparently you met for the Ubuntu Hours, have you mention that during these events ?
[22:29] <doctormo> leftyfb: I agree, we'll have no shipit, but don't forget we use our own resources for everything else.
[22:29] <paultag|remote> i was there huats and it was casually discussed
[22:30] <leftyfb> huats: I have been to one Ubuntu hour at which time I had to be on the phone the entire time for a support/personal issue
[22:30] <huats> paultag|remote, and the general feeling ?
[22:30] <huats> leftyfb, ok
[22:30] <leftyfb> czajkowski: what do you mean by idle our IRC channel?
[22:30] <leftyfb> I don't think removing resources at this point is going to help anything
[22:30] <czajkowski> leftyfb: as in we can join and be there for Q&A and possibly run some sessions on how to get involved
[22:31] <paultag|remote> huats lack of urgancy but mosty optimistic because of a recent event that was huge
[22:31] <leftyfb> I don't have an immediate solution as I am partially to blame for lack of time in helping run things
[22:31] <czajkowski> we've done it for the israel loco
[22:31] <popey> it happens leftyfb
[22:31] <doctormo> leftyfb: czajkowski means some folks would stay on in #ubuntu-us-ma to watch and help if needed.
[22:31] <doctormo> Although paultag has been there for a while now, without much change.
[22:32] <paultag|remote> true.
[22:32] <doctormo> If only we didn't have all these bloody universities killing our recruitment.
[22:32] <huats> paultag|remote, ok
[22:32] <leftyfb> I think our team is full of a lot of very talented and motivated people, but at the same time, very busy in their everyday lives.
[22:33] <popey> recruitment drive at unis doctormo ?
[22:33] <leftyfb> btw: I just added a missing event to our wiki page
[22:33] <popey> summer things to do for students on recess?
[22:33] <doctormo> popey: Contacts are hard to find and they frown on advertising without invitation.
[22:33] <popey> k
[22:34] <popey> talks at computer societies?
[22:34] <huats> doctormo, I am very very surprised that you dont get many people in  uiversities indeed
[22:34] <czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the Re Aproval of the Massachusetts Team LoCo.  only council members vote please
[22:34] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the Re Aproval of the Massachusetts Team LoCo.  only council members vote please.
[22:34] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[22:34] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[22:34] <paultag|remote> +0 -- im involved with the loco.
[22:34] <MootBot> Abstention received from paultag|remote. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[22:34] <huats> we are facing this kind of stuff in my city which have a lot of colleges
[22:34] <huats> and people are quite involved there
[22:35] <popey> -1
[22:35] <MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
[22:35] <czajkowski> -1
[22:35] <MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
[22:35] <huats> -1
[22:35] <MootBot> -1 received from huats. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
[22:35] <itnet7> -1
[22:35] <MootBot> -1 received from itnet7. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
[22:35] <leogg> +0
[22:35] <MootBot> Abstention received from leogg. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
[22:35] <popey> I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
[22:35] <czajkowski> [endvote]
[22:35] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 2 abstained. Total: -4
[22:36] <czajkowski> Sorry Ma LoCo you've been unsuccessful in your re approval
[22:36] <doctormo> czajkowski: Are you a computer?
[22:36] <paultag|remote> batt died bbl
[22:36] <itnet7> doctormo: lol, you kill me
[22:36] <itnet7> :-)
[22:36] <popey> heh
[22:36] <czajkowski> [action] Popey I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
[22:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Popey I'd like to see the loco council run a recruitment drive and bring in skills from other locos to help -us-ma!
[22:37] <czajkowski> ok who's turn is it to update wiki with minutes ??
[22:37] <popey> doctormo: we'll see what we can do to help, and keep in touch in your loco channel and -community-team
[22:37]  * popey puts his hands under the desk
[22:37] <doctormo> Thanks popey, sounds like a plan.
[22:37] <sirex`> czajkowski: is there any chances for Lithuanian LoCo to be Re Approved?
[22:37] <czajkowski> [action] czajkowski update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
[22:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  czajkowski update  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
[22:38] <czajkowski> itnet7: leogg popey either of ye update the minutes of the meeting ??
[22:38] <czajkowski> sirex`: in this meeting ?
[22:38] <popey> czajkowski: wilco
[22:38] <sirex`> In this meeting our team was not re approved
[22:39] <czajkowski> [action] popey update the wiki page with minutes and mail loco contacts mailing list
[22:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  popey update the wiki page with minutes and mail loco contacts mailing list
[22:39] <sirex`> I'm asking if such small team in small country has any chances to be approved?
[22:39] <czajkowski> sirex`: yes, we're going to mail you afertwards  and help you
[22:39] <huats> sirex`, do you mean to get reapproved tonight ? or at the next meting ?
[22:39] <czajkowski> it;s not a never it won't happen
[22:39] <czajkowski> just not now
[22:39] <sirex`> huats: at the next meeting..
[22:40] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
[22:40] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:40.
[22:40] <czajkowski> thanks folks
[22:40] <huats> sirex`, you can clearly get reapproved
[22:40] <huats> a small country is not an issue
[22:40] <huats> you just need to show us that you are doing good stuffs
[22:40] <huats> on regular events
[22:40] <huats> are well organized
[22:41] <huats> and have ideas of what you want to do next
[22:41] <sirex`> huats: yes, but small countries can't do same as big ones, like Frence or Italy.. :)
[22:41] <huats> sirex`, of course!
[22:41] <huats> we are really aware of that!
[22:43] <huats> sirex`, we'll send you an email shortly to let you know more about our decision and our ideas on how to help you
[22:43] <huats> (well the idea will come later :)
[22:43] <huats> but in anyway we are not giving you a -1 and leaving you alone
[22:43] <sirex`> huats: ok, understood..
[22:43] <huats> it is more an opportunity to help you
[22:46] <AlanBell> YoBoY: how did you get 5k people to a party?
[22:52] <tshirtman> AlanBell: communication, big user base (forum with 100 000+ registered members), lot of animations/courses/workshop, main free software associations of the coutry here
[22:53] <tshirtman> when possible, newspapers to speak (a little, but it's still huge on the effect) about it
[22:53] <AlanBell> so the forum is more important than mailing list or IRC for you?
[22:53] <tshirtman> yes
[22:53] <tshirtman> by a few magnitudes
[22:54] <AlanBell> we barely use the uk forum, probably because people go to the main english language forums
[22:54] <tshirtman> oh, yeah that explain
[22:54] <AlanBell> you have 180 or so people in the irc channel compared to our 127
[22:55] <tshirtman> (most) french don't speak english
[22:55] <AlanBell> but we have to put a lot of effort in to get 100 people to an event
[22:55] <kinouchou> We have a good place for the party
[22:55] <AlanBell> I think we have 700 or so on the mailing list
[22:55] <tshirtman> yeah the place for the party is fantastic
[22:55] <tshirtman> oh, good mailing list
[22:56] <tshirtman> do you use ubuntuforums to speak about uk events?
[22:56] <AlanBell> not sure about the main forums
[22:56] <AlanBell> I think announcements and things get posted in the uk forum
[22:56] <tshirtman> if most users are there, maybe you should at least relay it there
[22:57] <tshirtman> on our forums we have a section dedicated to parties, and teams from all the country can announce their event there
[22:57] <kinouchou> people know fr each release there are a big event in paris
[22:57] <AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274
[22:58] <tshirtman> we also have a website dedicated to parties, with only anounce of parties in every french speaking place
[22:59] <SpiNeAkeR> http://ubuntu-party.org/
[22:59] <AlanBell> yeah, looks like we didn't post the announcement of the most recent event on the forum even
[22:59] <tshirtman> AlanBell: ah, there is some activity there, i think this is not your problem
[22:59] <tshirtman> aw too bad
[23:00] <AlanBell> I kind of wouldn't expect anyone on the forum to not be on the mailing list
[23:00] <AlanBell> or see the blog posts and twitter stuff and press coverage we had
[23:00] <AlanBell> there is some activity, but the last post was 6 days ago
[23:01] <tshirtman> yeah, but people fall more easily on a forum than on a ML
[23:01] <AlanBell> possibly
[23:01] <tshirtman> i discovered a few days ago we where in 6th position for "forum" on google
[23:02] <tshirtman> so we happen to have more than a few people that get there without knowing anything about linux
[23:03] <AlanBell> I think a *lot* of UK ubuntu users are in the english language forums and have no clue what a loco is, or that the UK has one
[23:04] <tshirtman> i think the forum is very popular because, appart from the support sections wich are great help, but there are section like the "café" where people can speak about anything, it take a little work on moderation (ok, a lot) but people stay here to discuss even when they have no problems
[23:04] <tshirtman> -but*
[23:06] <tshirtman> i don't think most of our user knows the stuff about loco and such, they knows they have a big forum, most of them knows they have an awesome documentation, those who can go to events, a lot are very happy to buy merch, but few knows about irc and other mediums, or care to use them
[23:08] <tshirtman> the place we use for the party is "la cité des science" it's a very appreciated place with science expositions for childrens and such, it's a very good place we can easily communicate about, it's great help
[23:09] <AlanBell> interesting
[23:09] <AlanBell> I don't think in the UK we can do the same kind of thing with the forums because we don't have a different language
[23:10] <AlanBell> so as a loco we are going to have difficulty communicating with people who just go to the forums to get help with their desktop
[23:10] <AlanBell> unless the forums can add some geocoded advert banners for locos or something
[23:11] <tshirtman> hey, US english is different than UK english, you spell colour instead of color, i know people who would not tolerate such "abominations" ^^
[23:12] <tshirtman> (in french community a lot of people flame people when their langage is too poor :])
[23:13] <tshirtman> i think other french speaking loco may have the same problem with us
[23:14] <tshirtman> we have more than a few users from other french speakin countries
[23:14] <AlanBell> we have actually done translations of everything in main to en_GB
[23:14] <AlanBell> good for schools
[23:14] <tshirtman> :)
[23:15] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
[23:17] <tshirtman> hey, cool list of translations :)
[23:17] <tshirtman> will try to learn some :)
[23:17] <tshirtman> anyway, i don't currently have a solution about the overlap of language communities
[23:18] <tshirtman> having a part of official forums is a good thing (somewhat) but you still lack visibility
[23:19] <kinouchou> it's good yours translations guidelines
[23:25]  * tshirtman was using a mix of uk english and us english :(