[09:27] <kidar> hi, i need help setting up a classroom with edubuntu
[09:28] <alkisg> kidar: hi, ask your questions, and if someone knows the answer, he will probably answer.
[09:33] <kidar> i have managed to setup a server using ltsp. created a user and managed to logon using thin client. now i need to setup the server so that the teacher can monitor the thin clients
[09:34] <alkisg> sudo apt-get install italc-master
[09:34] <alkisg> That should do it... italc.sourceforge.net is the program web page, if you want to read more
[09:35] <kidar> will it work with edubuntu 10.04?
[09:35] <alkisg> Yes
[09:35] <alkisg> (unless you hit any bugs, e.g. on a specific lab it used to crash on me every few seconds - on other labs it worked fine for years)
[09:35] <kidar> do i need to install anything for the thin clients? this is a first for me so pls dont be annoyed with the questions
[09:36] <alkisg> No. Just install italc-master and ensure that the teacher is in the admin group,
[09:36] <alkisg> then logoff / logon the teacher, and then logon the user
[09:36] <alkisg> It should automatically be able to monitor the user, and even take control of his screen
[09:37] <kidar> in the new version of edubuntu under add programs there is a program called controlaula
[09:38] <kidar> when u say teacher u mean i need to create another user as a teacher and use that user to logon to the server?
[09:38]  * alkisg doesn't like controlaula at all, it's very non-professional
[09:39] <alkisg> About the teacher, yes, something like that
[09:39] <alkisg> The teacher accound needs to be a member of the admin group
[09:39] <alkisg> The default account you created as part of the installation can be used as well
[09:39] <alkisg> (it's already in the admin group)
[09:40] <alkisg> Just remember to logoff/logon after installing italc
[09:41] <kidar> ok, will try that. now for creating users (the children accounts) how would i do that, meaning i want to give them access for now only to the education stuff and office?
[09:43] <kidar> one question how would i be abl to setup thin clients and normal pc to logon to the same server
[09:43] <alkisg> What do you mean "normal pcs to logon to a server"?
[09:43] <alkisg> Have you done that somehow?
[09:43] <alkisg> (e.g. with LDAP?)
[09:44] <kidar> see i have the edubuntu server setup with ltsp
[09:44] <alkisg> To create users, just use the gnome users-admin program
[09:45] <kidar> now i want other pcs in the class room which are not thin clients to be monitored by the same server
[09:45] <alkisg> You can install italc on them too
[09:45] <kidar> regarding users how can u prevent them from deleting programs of the server?
[09:46] <alkisg> They can't, they don't have the rights
[09:46] <alkisg> If you create a normal user from the gnome users-admin dialog (and not an administrator), then that user cannot delete programs
[09:47] <kidar> ok
[09:47] <kidar> would the dhcp running for ltsp give out an IP to a normal pc on the same network?
[09:48] <alkisg> Yes
[09:48] <alkisg> Unless you use 2 NICs on the edubuntu server
[09:49] <alkisg> One for the thin clients and another for your existing network
[09:49] <alkisg> But you can also use your existing dhcp server and remove the one from edubuntu
[09:49] <kidar> i do, one is setup for the the ltsp and the other is on my internet network
[09:50] <alkisg> Then your dhcp server will only be used for the card with IP=192.168.0.1 (or the one you specify)
[09:52] <kidar> is there a way of also managing the thin clients ?
[09:53] <alkisg> What do you mean "managing"?
[09:53] <kidar> i mean for the classroom should i be doing anything else?
[09:56] <alkisg> I can't think of anything
[09:57] <kidar> ok 1 more question, firstly thank u very much for italc u are great
[09:58] <kidar> no i need to know whether italc works on both nics or only one
[09:59] <kidar> because i just ran it on the server and now it picks up my laptop which is on the internet nic
[09:59] <alkisg> It runs on both
[09:59] <alkisg> So you can manage both thin clients and normal pcs
[09:59] <kidar> will it pick up the thin clients(ltsp) on the other
[09:59] <alkisg> (and even windows pcs)
[10:00] <kidar> great u r a star. do u know by the way if there is a version out in zulu. on sunday i went to a rural community center where they have some old pcs and 1 new one thought i could load edubuntu there
[10:02] <alkisg> I've no idea about zulu
[10:03] <kidar> just by the way, i am based in durban south africa, going to do 3 schools here, so if i can be of some help, i would not mind
[10:06] <alkisg> Nice - I think highvoltage is from africa as well - I'm from Greece myself.
[10:06] <alkisg> You may want to check about the new fat client support in 10.04 too
[10:07] <alkisg> (instead of maintaining normal PCs, you boot those from the ltsp server too but as fat clients, not thin)
[10:07] <kidar> meaning, i am still new
[10:08] <kidar> where do i find help on the fat clients? booting from them will use less resource from the ltsp server correct?
[10:09] <alkisg> It would use the local client CPU + RAM
[10:09] <alkisg> What are your client specs?
[10:09] <alkisg> How much RAM do they have, and what CPUs?
[10:11] <kidar> the clients are acer, p4 3.0ghz, 512
[10:11] <kidar> they all have hard drives
[10:12] <alkisg> Yeah they'd work better as fat clients than as thin
[10:12] <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
[10:13] <alkisg> And if they have a local swap partition, also put USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True in lts.conf
[10:16] <kidar> do i need to install ubuntu on the fat clients?
[10:18] <kidar> the current config of the clients is windows xp at the moment, i just took away the server, which has pf 3.0ghz 1gig ram and 250gig sata hd
[10:19] <kidar> the class room has 24 pcs, so going to purchase additonal 3gig to make 4
[10:19] <alkisg> No, you don't need to install ubuntu on the fat clients
[10:19] <alkisg> Your setup is similar to what we use here in greece
[10:20] <alkisg> Do your clients support "boot from network"?
[10:20] <alkisg> (if they have onboard cards, usually yes, but if they have pci cards, usually not)
[10:20] <kidar> i guess so :) as they are p4's with on board nics
[10:21] <kidar> i have another school that has pci cards and they are using win98 curently
[10:22] <alkisg> I guess those would work best as thin clients
[10:22] <kidar> the pci cards are realtek, but need to check the bios i guess as these are old pcs p4 1.6ghz
[10:22] <alkisg> I put grub4dos on our windows 98 labs, and load gpxe so that they can boot from network without using a floppy / cd etc
[10:23] <alkisg> For windows 2000/XP/Vista labs we even developed a tool based on the debian installer, which again puts a "boot from network" option in the windows bootloader
[10:24] <kidar> talk to me maybe i should do what u did, did u remove ur windows xp?
[10:24] <alkisg> No we don't touch them at all, except for the boot loader
[10:25] <alkisg> So any teacher that needs to work on XP can do so. So most of our labs are dual boot, windows + ltsp
[10:25] <kidar> i will be very glad to do the same here
[10:26] <alkisg> We even developed an italc replacement that lets us manage thin + fat client labs, but currently it's in greek only - we will internationalize it after 2 years. http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-scripts/screenshots
[10:26] <alkisg> Here's the boot manager for 2000/XP/Vista (it's not working on windows 98 nor on windows 7): http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2136.0;attach=1617
[10:27] <alkisg> For the windows 98 labs, the easiest way is to use a floppy from: http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-1.0.0/contrib/rom-o-matic/build.php
[10:29] <kidar> downloade first one.
[10:29] <kidar> so with the win 98 i need to boot using the floppy?
[10:30] <alkisg> There's another way, with grub4dos
[10:30] <kidar> go for it, i am open to all the suggestions
[10:31] <alkisg> Here's a google translation of a how-to I wrote a while back: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.sch.gr%2Falkisg%2Ftosteki%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D1451.0&sl=auto&tl=en
[10:32] <alkisg> (you only need that how-to for windows 98, not for xp)
[10:33] <kidar> very nicely done.
[10:34] <kidar> may i ask what do u do in greece
[10:35] <alkisg> I'm a teacher, but I'm also in charge of deploying LTSP in greek schools
[10:36] <alkisg> So I joined the LTSP development team a while back, helped in fat clients implementation, wrote 2-3 ltsp installation manuals in greek, developed sch-scripts etc
[10:36] <kidar> nice, u teach IT/ Linux i guess
[10:37] <alkisg> I'm teaching in secondary schools, so nothing fancy - some openoffice, some web, a little programming in logo...
[10:37] <alkisg> (IT teacher, yeah)
[10:38] <kidar> i have my own IT company, worked for UNHCR in the IT section for 12yrs ,now on my own like ubuntu and want to roll it out to s many people schools, etc as i can
[10:39] <kidar> tell me can u send the file grubpxe.zip here. i am having a problem downloading from ur page
[10:39] <alkisg> Heh I forgot I also wrote that how-to in english: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/grubgpxe
[10:40] <alkisg> Just click on that link: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1451.0;attach=830
[10:41] <kidar> done. so are u always here?, as u have solved 99% of my problems :)
[10:42] <alkisg> :)
[10:42] <alkisg> I usually am, but I hope to be away for the next 2 years to finish a phd that I've started
[10:42] <alkisg> I like it here too much though so I don't know if I'll be able to stay away for long :P
[10:43] <kidar> goning to ask u a really silly question, in edubuntu they say they have stuff from primary to tertiary, where do u find this info. i have loaded it but what do i use?
[10:44] <kidar> u are an asset here
[10:44] <alkisg> Educational programs usually are in the Applications > Education menu
[10:47] <kidar> yeh i know but nothin to point ot secondary or primary. anyway now i am going to test all that u helped me with.
[10:48] <alkisg> There's "edubuntu menus" to separate different groups
[10:48] <alkisg> OK, give all this a go and if you have any problems you can always come back :)
[10:49] <kidar> i actuall have it installed on my laptop as the only os
[10:49] <kidar> thx once again will be back to let u know how it went
[11:05] <test_> hi it is kidar again
[11:06] <test_> when i booted my laptop using thin client, the italc did not pick the laptop
[11:07] <test_> hi alkisg it is kidar we chatted just now
[11:07] <alkisg> Hi
[11:08] <alkisg> So you installed italc-master on the ltsp server, logged off, then logged back on with a user that is in the admin group, and then booted your laptop as a thin client, and it doesn't see it?
[11:08] <test_> yeh
[11:09] <alkisg> Did you login on the thin client?
[11:09] <alkisg> A user needs to logon before italc sees it...
[11:09] <test_> the server saw the laptop when it was on the internet nic eth1 now i am connected to eth0
[11:09] <test_> yep, i am chatting to u from the thin client :)
[11:09] <test_> server is right next to me
[11:10] <alkisg> italc is a little difficult to troubleshoot when it's not working out of the box, so to make it a little faster as I don't have too much time, can I help you with vnc instead?
[11:11] <test_> ok
[11:11] <alkisg> sudo apt-get install x11vnc
[11:11] <alkisg> x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
[11:12] <test_> on server?
[11:12] <alkisg> Whatever :)
[11:12] <alkisg> (all apps are running on the server anyway so it doesn't make much difference)
[11:16] <test_> downloaded x11vnc, how do u connect to u?
[11:16] <alkisg> (01:11:21 μμ) alkisg: x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
[11:17] <test_> i get a screen saying select x11vnc port
[11:18] <alkisg> Run the above command from a terminal
[11:18] <alkisg> Applications > Accessories > gnome terminal, and type the following command:
[11:18] <alkisg> x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
[11:19] <test_> done
[11:20] <test_> r u in?
[11:20] <alkisg> yup
[11:23] <alkisg> test_: x11vnc has some keyboard problems, can you press "|" there?
[11:27] <test_> do u want me to start italc
[11:28] <test_> ok u did someting:)  so what was wrong?
[11:28] <alkisg> Nope, I didn't do anything
[11:29] <alkisg> I was just checking and everything looked ok so I just ran italc
[11:29] <test_> then :) some ghost
[11:29] <test_> i ran italc from the applications system tools
[11:30] <alkisg> I don't know, I didn't do anything, I just ran the same thing from the command line.
[11:31] <alkisg> OK, back to my phd... :)
[11:31] <test_> yeh, will restart and hopefully all will work.
[11:31] <test_> will let u know
[12:11] <kidar> hi alkisg, its working now. no idea why it did not initially. thx for all the help Kidar.
[12:12] <alkisg> Good to know :)
[12:12] <kidar> going to take a break now :)