/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/23/#ubuntu-beginners.txt

cheri703my computer won't let me make a usb startup disk00:44
stlsaintcheri703: what application are you using?00:45
cheri703the startup disk creator in ubuntu00:46
cheri703I have been having strange problems with my computer all day00:46
stlsaintcheri703: what error are you getting?00:46
cheri703well, when I choose my iso, the make startup disk button is greyed out, and I only have "erase disk"00:47
cheri703(the usb)00:47
cheri703ok, weird00:47
cheri703when I chose erase disk before it gave me an error, this time it might be working, one sec00:47
cheri703ok, now it's working00:47
cheri703sorry...00:48
stlsaintcheri703: unmount the usb, use gparted to format the usb, remove the usb from system, plug in again and run00:48
stlsaintoh ok,cool00:48
cheri703I was having an issue earlier that it wasn't recognizing my onboard sound card, was directed to do pulseaudio --kill and then start, that worked this morning, but computer froze up this afternoon and when I rebooted, it had disappeared again. I did the kill/start again, and no luck00:48
cheri703so I'm just scrapping it and reinstalling ubuntu00:49
cheri703I was messing with a bunch of audio stuff trying to get a usb mic working the other night00:49
cheri703so I may have screwed something up00:49
cheri703so my computer doesn't want to boot from the usb...also, I can't install oss4-dkms, I keep getting errors whenever I try, even when I downloaded it from the website01:05
Vantraxgrats stlsaint01:21
stlsaintVantrax: thanks01:22
nUboon2Agehey all, i'm needing some help w/ getting the network icon back onto my top panel, can anyone help?02:11
nUboon2Agei made sure i had a notification area, so that's taken care of.02:13
zkriessenUboon2Age: network icon02:13
zkriessethe internet thing you mean?02:13
nUboon2Agehey zkriesse, uh, its been a while since i've seen it02:14
nUboon2Agei can't remember what it looks like.02:14
nUboon2Agei had wicd in there for a long while02:14
zkriessehuh02:15
nUboon2Ageand now i'm trying to get NetworkManager working again02:15
stlsaintalright folks, ill be back in an hour02:15
nUboon2Agei guess its the wireless icon02:16
zkriessenUboon2Age: ok02:16
zkriessehello kevin___02:17
kevin___hey zkriesse02:17
kevin___sorry, I'm messing with xchat02:17
nUboon2Agei think i just stumbled on the answer...02:17
kevin___and I don't know how to stop it from connecting02:17
zkriessekevin___: auto joining on ya?02:18
kevin___yeah, it's seidos02:18
zkriessekevin___: oh hey dude02:18
zkriessekevin___: go to XChat -> Network List -> Freenode -> Edit... -> Connecting -> Un-check "Auto connect to this network at startup"02:19
nUboon2Agei reinstalled the gnome-network-manager package and then in a terminal typed 'nm-applet'02:19
zkriessenUboon2Age: ok02:20
nUboon2Agenow i need to know how to make sure it starts up automatically02:20
kevin___zkriesse, yeah, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that, oh well.  thanks02:20
zkriessekevin___: yup02:20
nUboon2Agelooks like its working.  I just switched from wired to wireless...02:21
nUboon2Agenow i need to know how to make sure it starts up automatically02:21
nUboon2Agecool, i just went to System->Preferences->Startup Applications and found there was an unchecked item for Network Manager.  Whew!  fixed (i think -- fingers crossed).02:24
nUboon2Agenow i'll check it by rebooting... cya l8r02:25
nUboon2Ageyup, it worked.  I'd removed NetworkManger and replaced it w/ wicd, but when checking on some odd behavior with ubuntu One, (thanks to Kermiac) i found out that it was relying on NetworkManger to do some of its work, so i have to put it back and cope with the other previous problem separately (i can't recall for sure, but i think it was a USB sync problem with Palm or iPod).02:30
seidosis wicd really that much better?  I mean I know it's prettier, but is it doing anything different under the hood?  I don't know, I've only used it very briefly02:31
nUboon2Ageseidos: i know it worked pretty well for most things,03:29
seidosnUboon2Age, it == network manager?03:31
nulify0hi, what is netstumbler analouge for ubuntu?03:57
stlsaintnulify0: not sure what you mean?04:10
nulify0i"d like to know where is best wifi signal at home, good program for such is netstumbler, it shows graph with strenth of signal (win only) , so i need something like that for ubuntu04:15
stlsaintnulify0: you on gnome or kde?04:17
stlsaintnulify0: for gnome there is: wavemon, for kde is:kwavecontrol04:18
nulify0gnome, but if kde wont crash this time (it crashed on my notebook,but recently i updated kernel) i might install kde04:18
stlsaintnulify0: for gnome there is: wavemon, for kde is:kwavecontrol04:19
nulify0ok, i installed it, but cant find in menu04:21
stlsaintcall it from terminal04:23
nulify0called, but interface not very convinient )) is there some graphical program?04:26
stlsaintnulify0: i dont use anything particular04:29
nulify0i see, i googled for netstumbler alternative and read that kismet is good, installed kismet, but cant guess what i should write on its config(about source wlan) to run it.04:34
=== bgs100 is now known as bgs000
nUboon2Ageseidos: to clarify what i said earlier: wicd was not only pretty, but worked pretty well for most everything you'd need it for, except i found out that ubuntu One is relaying on Network Manager for some of its services, and i don't know if you can have both NM and wicd working simulataneously.  at least i wasn't successful in getting them both to work.05:28
jimioI was wondering if someone could help me with my problem ... I accidentally enabled the magnifier for the login screen and it's blocking everything, including the icon which I first enabled it from (it's not actually magnifying anything useful). How can I disable it, or reset the login screen?05:31
=== steemed is now known as st33med
SomeDudehello everyone07:37
SomeDudei have a software question,07:37
SomeDudeOn my mac I had a small program called TweetmyMac. It allowed me to control my Mac via a twitter account and tweet basic UNIX commands. I was wondering if there was a program similar to that for Linux07:38
SomeDudeI have linux on a laptop and it would be nice to be able to turn it off remotely from a web browser rather then needing to install software (this is because I would do it from a random computer/school/library)07:38
yax51hmmm there should be....lets find out....07:45
yax51Somedude: Gnome RDP might be what you are looking for07:48
yax51SomeDude: you could also check out KontrolPack....07:50
yax51SomeDude: there is also KRDC07:51
yax51SomeDude: Remmina Remote Desktop Client...07:53
yax51SomeDude: Remote Desktop viewer07:54
yax51SomeDude: Secure Shell....07:55
yax51SomeDude: are these anything you are looking for?07:55
SomeDudethanks for the help everyone08:03
SomeDudegoing to bed, adios08:03
=== swoody is now known as Guest50088
=== swoody_ is now known as swoody
duanedesignmorning all12:43
paultaghey12:44
paultagduanedesign: what's up?12:44
isiahhi guys, been a while12:49
paultagheyya isiah12:50
isiahwhat you been up to paultag?12:50
paultagisiah: nada, how have you been? long time no see12:54
isiahfinished the EE degree and job searched12:57
paultagkiller12:57
isiahlooks like i landed something12:57
paultagwhatcha looking for a job in?12:57
paultagnice! doin what?12:57
isiahEE12:57
paultagwell duh!12:57
paultagbut that's a big field12:57
isiahelectrical safety standards engineering12:57
isiahperfect job for an OCD engineer12:58
paultagah cool12:58
paultagsolid, congrats isiah12:58
isiahthankx12:58
isiahI was trying to get a former classmate to work on that business idea I had a while back.12:58
paultaghell yeah12:59
isiahthinking about giving it more time and just put up an ad in the college job board as an internship12:59
paultagisiah: I've forgotten where you live13:02
isiahbuffalo NY13:02
paultagah right right right13:02
isiahthe real edge of western civilization13:03
paultagisiah: bullshit13:03
paultagisiah: I'm in cleveland13:03
paultagisiah: that's just barely civilization13:03
isiahover yonder horizon lies the barbarian forces of the Canada13:03
paultagisiah: aye aye13:03
isiahmuch like the roman legionnaire us buffaloions are all that is stopping them from stroming the gates13:04
paultaghahaha13:04
isiahwhat are you doing in cleveland? I thought you hailed from West Virginia for some reason13:05
paultagisiah: no sir13:06
paultagisiah: Bosoton by birth13:06
isiahoh13:06
isiahyou got a job there?13:06
paultagisiah: still in school13:07
paultagisiah: last year :)13:07
isiahnice for what?13:08
paultagisiah: math + comp-sci13:08
paultagsingle degree13:08
paultagisiah: I'm a nerd :)13:10
isiahI am going back part-time to school13:16
isiahhope to pick up first comp engineering, then math degrees13:16
paultagaye13:17
paultagCE is fun13:17
paultagit's a cross between CS and EE13:17
isiahI think it is only 3 classes extra for me13:17
paultaglots of Firmware, but higher level then FPGA13:17
paultagyeah, it's no sweat for you13:17
isiahI took discreet mathematics already13:17
paultagwell I'd hope so13:17
isiahso it should only be comp sci 1,2 and that database class13:18
paultagcomp-sci is easy if you like philosiphy13:18
paultaggrr13:18
paultagphilosophy13:18
isiahat UB its basically object-orientated programing with java13:18
paultagoh man13:19
paultagthat's nothing13:19
paultagI tutor jocks into doing that frak to fill out a lab class13:19
paultagit's nothing13:19
paultagtrivial13:19
isiahI took it for 3 weeks and dropped it13:19
paultagwhy?13:20
isiahI couldnt get the pre-built objects to work on my home computer, the computer labs dated from 1991 and were beyond slow13:20
isiahits a weed-out course so the professor was trying to fail 25% of us13:20
isiahI didnt want a bad grade13:21
isiahthe TAs were students who took the course a year ago13:21
isiahand seemed very smug with there tiny fraction of knowledge they knew more then us13:22
paultagassholes13:22
paultagisiah: if you need help, I tutor Uni students in this stuff.13:22
isiahjust everything about the class sucked13:22
paultagisiah: seriously13:22
isiahit just didnt work13:23
isiahI am going to have to try it again13:23
paultagOK13:23
isiahalso, I never worked with objects before13:25
isiah:(13:25
paultagisiah: they are actually really really neat13:25
paultagisiah: are you a C programmer?13:25
paultagduh, fpga13:25
paultagisiah: so, what's a struct13:25
isiahall I have ever really messed with is basic C++ and assembly13:26
paultagsure13:26
isiahoh and a little bit of Lips13:26
paultagisiah: so, what's a struct?13:26
isiahumm its in C right?13:26
paultaghaha, right, let's go back a level13:27
isiahi think its like a model13:27
paultagisiah: so, stuff in memory is stored in 1D, right?13:27
isiahclose enough13:27
isiahon the HD at least13:27
paultagisiah: so, if you want to define a blob of things, do it along that line. Usually you say [x|y|z] memory addr 0x01 is x, 2 is y, 3 is z ( 0 is NULL )13:28
isiahok13:28
paultagisiah: what you can do is define a "template" to place stuff in memory. Say OK, the template should look like [x|y|z]13:28
isiahso......13:28
paultagisiah: and so you can say I want a new alphabet-template at memory location 0x113:29
paultagisiah: and you can access "x" because it knows the offset based on the squence of stuff in the template13:29
isiahso anything at memory location x must be a number?13:29
isiahrules like that?13:29
paultagisiah: well everything's a number13:29
paultagisiah: yes!! exactly!!13:29
paultagso you can say:13:29
paultagstruct foo {13:29
paultag   int x13:29
isiahand y = x + 113:29
paultag  int y13:29
paultag}13:29
paultagand then make new object of that struct, and access struct->x13:30
paultagisiah: that syntax is off, but it makes things easy to grab13:30
paultagisiah: still with me?13:30
isiahok so this struct says that everything at memory address Foo is three spaces long13:30
isiahand must be a an integer13:30
isiah?13:30
paultagisiah: structs can hold anything13:31
isiahbut this struct13:31
paultagisiah: yes :)13:31
isiahok13:31
paultagisiah: so when you hit struct->y, you know it's struct + sizeof(int)13:31
paultagisiah: still with me?13:31
isiahhit?13:31
paultagisiah: access13:32
isiahok so I call in the program the struct13:32
isiahand access it like an array?13:32
paultagisiah: it's exactly like an array, but it can have mixed types and pointers with real objects and stuff13:32
paultagisiah: it encapsulates stuff13:32
isiahok13:32
paultagisiah: it's like a big blob that holds frak13:32
isiahso a struct is like a template and a location13:33
paultagyes!!13:33
isiahit defines a type and where it is13:33
paultagisiah: and if you make "struct1" and "struct2" and change "struct1->y" you will not touch struct2->y13:33
paultagstill with me?13:33
isiahlike saying "Bob is a person who is male, 6 feet tall, and has red hair he lives at 770 main st."13:33
paultagPERFECT!13:34
paultagisiah: Objects are fancy structs, and in addition to holding vars, it can hold functions13:34
isiahwhen you say struct2 its a diferent guy13:34
paultagisiah: perfect, yes, spot on13:34
pedro3005ooo, C class going on13:34
isiahok so the struct2 is ted13:34
paultagisiah: but with classes you can set up these templates to pull from eachother and automate code generation and stuff13:34
paultagisiah: yeah :)13:34
isiahso the struct-people can talk etc.?13:35
paultagisiah: yip!13:35
paultagisiah: you can even have an array in the struct13:35
paultagisiah: and the array can be of other people pointers13:35
paultagisiah: and say that's your "friendsS"13:35
isiahbut....wouldnt you need a higher level for that?13:35
isiahsomething that holds the structs together?13:35
paultagisiah: well, you create structs in the C code13:36
isiahhmm13:36
paultagisiah: so yo would say struct_name bob = (struct_name *)malloc(sizeof(struct_name));13:36
paultagisiah: and then you can say bob->friend[0] = roger;13:36
paultagisiah: where roger is a pointer to another struct13:37
pedro3005In this case you're creating some struct with typedef, right?13:37
paultagpedro3005: yeah, but let's not talk syntax just yet13:37
paultagpedro3005: :)13:37
isiahok so parts of the struct can interact with other structs?13:37
paultagisiah: well structs can't have code in them13:37
paultagisiah: you can only "play" with them13:38
isiahok, just attributes?13:38
paultagisiah: yyup13:38
pedro3005paultag, can they have functions?13:38
paultagisiah: if you add functions you have... "Classes" and "Objects" !!!13:38
paultagpedro3005: structs?13:38
pedro3005yeah, in C13:38
paultagpedro3005: they can have function pointers13:38
paultagpedro3005: but never actual code13:38
pedro3005ok13:38
isiahok so i have two structs bob and ted. I can make a bigger structure to hold both13:38
isiahand make them do stuff to each other?13:38
paultagisiah: sure, "people"13:38
paultagisiah: not automaticly13:38
paultagisiah: that's why classes and objects came about13:39
paultagisiah: because you can start to say "bob->visit_friends();"13:39
paultagisiah: and bob can then run code inside his blob13:39
paultagisiah: and access his vars in the "struct-type-thing" using a pointer to it's self ( "this" )13:39
isiahso a struct is an object or class?13:39
pedro3005bob is a pointer to struct_name?13:39
paultagisiah: so bob->friends == this->friends   inside a method13:39
paultagpedro3005: yes13:40
paultagisiah: struct is neither13:40
pedro3005paultag, so if we alter bob we're altering struct_name13:40
paultagisiah: if you add functions, it becomes a class13:40
paultagpedro3005: does not matter13:40
isiahok, so we modify the struct to allow Bob to go to work13:40
pedro3005why make bob a pointer and not just a new struct?13:40
paultagisiah: and when you create a "new" class in code, it becomes an "object"13:40
isiahnow it is class13:40
paultagpedro3005: we can talk later, isiah is trying to learn OOP13:40
paultagisiah: yep13:41
pedro3005ohh, I see13:41
paultagisiah: so now its not "struct bob {}"13:41
paultagisiah: but "class person"13:41
isiahits class person ()13:41
paultagyup!13:41
isiahfill in attributes13:41
paultagisiah: and you can start to move code out of the main code loop and into those blobs13:41
paultagisiah: so you can have it "copy and paste" code when you have a new object13:41
isiahclass person ( height, age, hair color, gender)13:42
isiahwith a method that makes class person go to work?13:42
paultagisiah: sure, it would look like:13:42
paultagclass person {13:42
paultag    int height;13:42
paultag    int age;13:42
paultag    char * hair_color;13:42
paultag    bool gender;13:42
paultag    void go_to_work() { print "I'm at work"; }13:43
paultag}13:43
paultagisiah: so you can create a new "person" and call person->go_to_work();13:43
paultagisiah: and that will print "I'm at work!"13:43
isiahand when I fill in those that is "instatuation"?13:43
paultagisiah: even easier :)13:43
paultagisiah: when you create a new person, it's instantiation13:43
paultagperson bob = new person();13:44
paultagisiah: instance == instantiation13:44
isiahthat goes on top of the program?13:44
isiahthats like an int x;13:44
paultagisiah: yup, that would be in the "main" method13:44
isiahright?13:44
paultagisiah: yip!!13:44
paultagisiah: not to hard, right?13:44
isiahok, but later in the program I fill it in, or let the user fill it in13:44
paultagisiah: you can do either :)13:45
paultagisiah: or you can create a "constructor"13:45
paultagisiah: that's required arguments for the object creation13:45
isiahperson bob = new person ( 6, 16, red, male)13:45
paultagisiah: yup!13:45
paultagisiah: that would just look like a13:45
paultagclass person {13:45
paultag    person( int x, int y, char * color, char * gender ) {13:45
paultag        this->height = x;13:46
paultag      ...13:46
paultag      ...13:46
paultag    }13:46
paultag    ....13:46
paultag    ....13:46
paultag}13:46
isiahso how do I make bob go to work?13:46
paultagisiah: remember, this-> is a pointer to the memory address of the starting addr of the current object13:46
paultagisiah: bob->go_to_work();13:47
isiahpointers? I thought OO-programming didnt have that13:47
paultagisiah: or bob.go_to_work();13:47
paultagisiah: oh no! we love pointers :)13:47
isiahso java has them?13:47
paultagisiah: not programmer modifiable13:47
isiahoh13:47
paultagisiah: but they exist ( you can still get a NullPointnerException )13:47
paultagisiah: by doing a :13:47
paultagperson bob;13:47
paultagbob.go_to_work();13:47
paultagyou never said bob = new person( .... );13:48
paultagso there is no mem addr, and bob = 0x00;13:48
isiahlike using x, without writing int x;13:48
isiah?13:48
paultagisiah: yup13:48
isiahok, these sound a lot like function calls in C++13:48
paultagisiah: there are a lot of nuances13:49
isiahexcept.........in C++ I would do methods by passing a number13:49
paultagright :)13:49
paultagisiah: think this over, and always think about them in terms of "blobs" of memory, or "chunks"13:49
paultagisiah: that are just designed to always look a certen way in RAM13:49
isiahso, once I make a template (read class) I can create an infinite number of people13:50
isiahall unique13:50
paultagright13:50
isiahand make them do stuff with method calls13:50
paultagisiah: person1->blah();13:50
paultagisiah: yeah13:50
paultagor person1.blah();13:50
paultagdepending on language and status of the thing ( pointer or object )13:50
isiahok, but we are missing a few things13:51
paultagisiah: OK, what are we missing13:51
isiah1. how do we know what methods are available to us?13:51
paultagisiah: ahha13:51
paultagisiah: well how do you know you have a function in C ?13:51
paultagif you define "void do() { printf("Foobar\n");}"13:51
isiahI look in the header files13:51
paultagisiah: right13:51
paultagisiah: same thing with a class13:51
isiahfair enough13:52
isiah2. the real trick would be to get the people to do stuff to each other?13:52
paultagisiah: hehe, yep13:52
paultagisiah: so you can give pointers to functions13:52
paultagisiah: say, here's the memory address of jill13:52
paultagisiah: and use the given memory address and say "arg->date()'13:53
isiaharg?13:53
paultagisiah: if that was a function with the signature of:13:53
paultagvoid date ( person * arg ) {13:53
paultag   ...13:53
paultag}13:53
paultagthen you could say13:53
paultagbob->date( jill );13:53
isiahjill->reject (bob);13:54
paultag:D13:54
isiahwould that work?13:54
isiahhow would I make jill reject bob if he asks her out?13:54
paultagsure, but since jill's request was called by bob, you don't have access to "jill"13:54
paultagisiah: so in jill's rcv_date_request method she would say13:55
paultagisiah: if ( requester->name == "bob" ) { this->reject( requester ); }13:55
paultagisiah: where rcv_date_request has a passed arg requester which is a ptr to bob13:55
isiahso, we defined a template for people13:56
paultagyu[13:56
paultagyup13:56
isiahgive them two methods13:56
isiahask out, and reject13:56
isiahcreate two people13:56
isiahand then define there interaction13:56
paultagyup13:57
isiahbut.....13:57
isiahI dont want Bob to be able to control Jill13:57
isiahhowever, they need a way to communicate13:57
paultagisiah: each object has levels of access13:57
isiahso Bob and Jill have a perdefined relationship?13:57
paultagisiah: you can say a method is "public" ( anyone can call ) "private" ( only from "this" ), "protected" ( any object that extends it )13:57
paultagisiah: so you can say "accept_date" is protected or private13:58
paultagisiah: and bob can't call accept_date13:58
isiahwhat would be public?13:58
isiahlike seeing her wearing clothing?13:58
paultagisiah: anyone can call it13:58
paultagisiah: yeah13:58
paultagisiah: or getHeight13:58
paultagisiah: but not changeHeight13:58
isiahso bob and jill can see each other13:59
isiahboth can ask each other out13:59
isiahand both can reject each other after being asked13:59
paultagyeah13:59
paultagOK, sec isiah14:00
isiahand this portected public stuff goes in the class definition?14:00
paultagisiah: http://paste.ubuntu.com/467987/14:00
paultagisiah: http://paste.ubuntu.com/467988/14:01
isiahlol I was just doing that14:01
paultagisiah: that might help :)14:01
paultagisiah: you see how14:01
paultagisiah: you see how int    height;14:01
paultagconst char * name;14:01
paultagisiah: are private14:01
paultagisiah: that mens bob can't access jill->height;14:01
paultagisiah: but jill can get to "this->height"14:01
isiahstill soemthignis bugging me14:02
isiahits like they have a realtionship14:02
isiahthey can pass information to each other14:02
paultagisiah: well they are both "person" types14:02
isiahthey cant change each other14:02
paultagisiah: they can't unless you tell them to14:02
isiahis there a name for this?14:02
paultagisiah: name for them talking?14:02
paultagisiah: using pointers :)14:03
isiahok, a fridge needs a compressor or there is no fridge, but a person doesnt need a fridge however they can interact14:03
paultagisiah: run that by me one more time, I'm lost :)14:04
isiahor in our analogy, Bob needs a head14:04
paultagOK, yip14:04
isiahso object bob and object head have a relationship14:04
isiahthat is much different then Bob and Jill have14:04
paultagisiah: want me to do that?14:04
paultagisiah: aye14:04
pedro3005paultag, if you're using namespace std why std::cout and not cout?14:04
paultagpedro3005: habbet, classes should not be in std namespace14:05
paultagisiah: sec14:05
paultagisiah: http://paste.ubuntu.com/467992/14:07
paultagisiah: http://paste.ubuntu.com/467993/14:07
isiahso there is no name for this?14:08
isiahI kind of remember something about this14:08
paultagisiah: it's called object inheritance14:09
paultagisiah: and using a person as a "alive" object ( and you can ) it's called "polymorphism"14:09
isiahassoactive?14:09
madhatter84gnhey paul good to see you are on again14:09
isiahI think that was the word they used14:09
paultagmadhatter84gn: :)14:09
paultagisiah: not really used14:10
paultagisiah: mostly object inheritance14:10
isiahwhich is?14:10
paultagisiah: that person is both person and alive14:10
isiahok i think14:11
paultagcool :)14:11
isiahso we could build up a huge hierarchy14:11
paultagisiah: yup!14:11
madhatter84gnhey paul just about done going through the all the test to verify mono is up and running14:11
paultagmadhatter84gn: killer!14:12
madhatter84gnwill start today figuring out the road to getting the source code for Banshee and start looking it over14:12
isiahwe could define methods for every body part, attributes that each has. That insinuate the objects creating two people that have defined ways of interacting14:12
paultagisiah: yup! and *that* is Object Oreanted programming :)14:13
isiahstill missing something14:13
isiahwhat about the platypus?14:13
paultagisiah: it can extend alive and animal14:14
paultagisiah: but not person14:14
isiahI mean it would be member of class mammal14:14
paultagisiah: yup!14:14
isiahbut it lays eggs, which mammals cant do14:14
isiahI wouldnt want to re-write the entire class mammal to allow this14:15
isiahis there a way of forcing this exception?14:15
paultagisiah: so have it extend egg-layer14:15
isiahhmm14:16
isiahby re-writing the code?14:16
isiahand then releasing a patch14:16
paultagI guess you can do it that way14:17
isiahis there a better oo-programming way?14:17
paultagisiah: extend egg-layer14:17
isiahwhere would that be written?14:18
paultagisiah: oh wait that's what you were saying14:18
paultagisiah: yes, in the code14:18
isiahwhen you insinuate it14:18
isiahor in the template?14:18
paultagisiah: template14:18
=== bgs000 is now known as bgs100
paultagisiah: you should have these templates dictate behavior and just play with them in code14:18
isiahcan objects through there interactions change permission statues of attributes?14:19
isiahsay for example Bob gets lucky and gets to see Jill naked14:19
paultagisiah: not really, but jill can have code that "forwards" data via method callbacks14:20
isiahok14:20
isiahbut the data would still be private without that forward call?14:21
paultagisiah: data is meaningless, you can send it via a return without it caring14:21
paultagisiah: since it's all running on the same processess, it's shared memory14:22
isiahI suppose I could then go on to define a class town14:22
paultagsure14:22
isiahand give it my own number of people14:22
paultagthat holds houses14:22
isiahhmmm14:22
isiahsounds complicated14:23
isiahall these objects that can be defined to interact in different ways14:23
paultagisiah: we start to get into data structures and that gets fun14:23
paultagisiah: yeah, well that's programming :)14:23
isiahok, another thing I noticed in the 3 weeks in that java class was that the programs didnt really stream14:24
isiahit was more like a modern video game14:24
paultagisiah: what do you mean stream?14:24
isiahin my engineering programming class and on my internship I needed to optimize work14:25
isiahsay you got to multiply a series of numbers by .7 from a .txt. file14:25
isiahso the whole program would be in one loop14:25
paultagwell no14:25
isiahand after it was done it would ask me if i want to run it again14:25
paultagyour program would be in one loop14:25
isiahI guess, like those old BASIC video games14:26
paultagisiah: right14:26
isiahso in java stuff it is different?14:26
paultagisiah: not really14:26
isiahI dont remember any real big loops14:26
isiahthe applets just kind of ran forever14:27
paultagisiah: but you can make it nicer, say create a class for "storage" that can read flat file, berkleydb, or pickle'd file, and have the class have a "getNext();" call that gets the next line in the queue14:27
paultagisiah: and you can usually hook things up to callbacks and save CPU + RAM14:27
isiahhmmm14:28
paultagisiah: but logic is logic14:28
=== pjarnahomzz is now known as pjarnahom
isiahis it possible to make an object with really not knowing or being able to know how the object internally works?14:28
paultagisiah: yeah :)14:28
isiahsay I can make Bob off of code I cant see14:28
paultagisiah: just like C you can move the .h file out of the implemtnation14:28
paultagisiah: so that you have the .h as a ref with no code14:29
paultagisiah: and you can even use a -llib to compile against a binary to do stuff that you don't have source to14:29
isiahmakes sense14:29
isiahnow inheritance14:29
paultagisiah: we were just talking about that14:29
paultagisiah: alive --> person14:30
isiahso Bob's head can have hair. If on the top layer i say bob has hair14:30
isiahred14:30
isiahit goes down14:30
isiahand each focial gets red colored14:30
isiahbut on top I dont have to say he has hair14:30
isiahI can just say "red hair"14:30
isiahand have it generate it lower down14:31
isiahthat is inheritance?14:31
paultagisiah: no14:31
paultagisiah: it's saying bob's a person, and a person's alive14:31
paultagisiah: therefore bob is alive14:31
isiahah14:31
paultagisiah: and you can call alive methods on person14:31
isiahok, this is pretty cool14:32
isiahyou can make functions do stuff without passing in a controlling number14:32
paultagisiah: yeah if you access instance vars using "this"14:32
isiahthis could have other uses14:33
isiahsay, i believe knowing his arm length could be useful one day, and I build an algorithm that makes it based off of height and gender. I wouldnt have to touch the whole class town program14:34
isiahbut one day I could change how the object people interact based off of it14:34
paultagisiah: yup.14:35
paultagisiah: that's what makes it rock14:35
isiahwhich would make the object town act different14:35
paultagisiah: yup14:35
paultagisiah: that's what's known as code maintainability14:35
isiahso, one day you are playing my simtown game14:35
isiahand I (work for microsoft) so i make you download a patch14:35
isiahthat uses this data14:35
isiahand your town game changes14:36
paultagyeah14:36
=== pjarnahom is now known as pjarnahomzz
isiahI could also make a database containing what i think are useful classes and let people download them14:36
isiaheach one with its own methods14:37
pedro3005paultag, one curiosity, I had this problem with python and I wonder how C++ handles it. Say you have one class with a constructor method and then create a new class inheriting from it with another constructor method. When you instantiate the second class would you pass it the arguments to both the constructors or just the second class' constructor?14:37
isiahand that is what java did14:37
isiahbrb....bathroom14:37
paultagisiah: yeah14:37
paultagpedro3005: ah, with C++ it sucks14:38
paultagpedro3005: with python, use super().__init__();14:38
pedro3005yeah, I heard about super()14:38
paultagsec14:46
paultagbrb14:46
isiahbacks14:51
isiahactually not, i got an appointment14:54
isiahttyl14:54
Silver_Fox_Hola15:19
=== pjarnahomzz is now known as pjarnahom
=== pjarnahom is now known as pjarnahomzz
=== pjarnahomzz is now known as pjarnahom
=== pjarnahom is now known as pjarnahomzz
isiahthat is not dead which can eternal lie yet with strange aeons even death may die17:17
Phreais there a per-application volume slider/mute thingy out there?17:54
isiahgo into more details about what you need please17:55
Phreato for instance 'mute' my browser17:55
isiahso you want one volume control?17:55
Phreawell, it would be handy if there was a little program that could be able to have a volume control per application17:55
Phreayes :)17:55
Phreabut which lets me chose what application to mute17:56
isiahoh, I see. Instead of the typical control already there you want one per process17:56
isiahyes?17:56
Phreayes17:56
isiahare you using gnome?17:56
Phreayes17:56
isiahyou know where the normal volume control is?17:57
Phreayou know, like the one I've seen in windows 7 pictures17:57
isiahfor the whole computer17:57
Phreayes17:57
Phreadon't tell me it's already in there...17:57
isiahright click on it and go to sound preferences17:57
isiahthen click the application tab17:57
Phreahow do I add applications to that?17:57
PhreaI only have ALSA plug-in and Rhythmbox17:58
isiahare you current applications listed?17:58
Phreano, just those two I just mentionned17:58
Phreano listing of other apps17:58
isiahso for example you have an im client running and it isnt listed?17:59
PhreaI've looked there already17:59
Phreait isnt listed no17:59
PhreaI am running Pidgin and Opera, amonst other things17:59
Phreathey are not listed there17:59
isiahok, lets do this together17:59
isiahopen a terminal please17:59
Phreaok17:59
isiahand type in: apropos sound17:59
Phreaisn't there just a little addon that lets me do this, or is this an adon?18:00
Phreao, brb !18:00
isiahI am not sure, I am trying to figure this out myself18:00
Phreasorry, somebody was at the door :)18:02
isiahits fine18:03
Phreaah, it's just an output18:03
PhreaI see18:03
isiahok I am trying a program called gnome-volume-control18:03
isiahI typed in: man gnome-volume-control18:03
Phreadon't go and try out programs for me :o18:03
isiahand am reading the documentation18:03
PhreaI can read, Sir/Ma'am18:03
Phreait mentiones gnome-volume-control --name=NameOfApp18:07
Phreabut that does nothing18:08
isiahwhat are you typing in exactly?18:08
Phreagnome-volume-control --name=Opera18:08
Phrea...that might be me being a bit dumb tho :)18:09
isiahok, I am playing around with it18:10
isiahand it looks like certain programs only show up on that list when the program is making sound18:10
isiahdoes this make sense in your case?18:10
Phreait does, in that those programs don't make sound atm18:11
Phreaoh wow18:11
isiahhmmm, well a really bad solution would be to run the programs and then adjust18:11
PhreaI tried going to a website with audio18:11
Phreait works, it's in the list now18:12
isiahthere should be a way to do this from the command line18:12
Phreawill it be muted forever?18:12
isiahI dont know18:12
Phreabecause I don't mind18:12
Phrealet me check18:12
isiahif we figure it out18:12
Phreaclosing and opening Opera again18:13
isiahwe can make sure it works that way18:13
Phrea...and it's right there, and it's muted18:13
Phreapetty there isnt just a list from which we can chose [in sound preferences]18:13
Phreabut, this works fine, as long as a program outputs audio, it will show up in the applications list18:14
Phreaand, it seems to remember the choice18:14
Phrea:)18:14
PhreaOpera shows up in SP --> Applications tab as: ALSA-plug-in [operapluginwrapper-ia32-linux]18:15
Phreaif that's of any help to you for future reference18:16
isiahah18:16
Phreait's "ALSA plug-in [etc here]" without the first hyphen18:17
isiahstill bothers me18:17
isiahyou should be able to set this from the command line18:18
Phreahaha18:18
isiahand use it in application luancher18:18
Phreait would be easier to be able to do it beforehand, so you are not surprized by audio from some random app18:18
Phreaisiah: I'm a mouse user :)18:18
PhreaI don't know anything about the CLI18:18
isiahwell we could write the script18:18
isiahso that way it will run it when you click on the ico18:18
isiahicon18:19
Phreaslash that 'we'18:19
PhreaI can't script nor program18:19
isiahok, if i can figure out the command line syntax18:19
isiahI can show you18:19
PhreaI like GUI solutions better anyways18:19
Phreaso I'd like to have a standard list added to the Applications tab in Sound Preferences so you can set the volume per app, even when it's not making sound at the time18:20
Phreahey, I have yet to thank you for your help :)18:21
Phreaso, thanks ! :)18:21
isiahoh np18:21
isiahok, let me look at the docs more. Figure this out18:21
Phreawell, I'm not really interested in it anymore, I've accomplished what I wanted, with your help18:21
isiahok18:22
PhreaI am now only interested in adding the before said feature to the Sound Preferences app18:22
isiahso if any program is ever ran it will be on the list18:23
isiaheven if never ran before?18:23
Phreaif it's installed, yes18:23
isiahsee, I am not sure about that18:23
isiahI am fairly sure that programs generate sound by interrupts18:23
Phreawell, maybe just a standard list, like browsers etc18:23
PhreaI don't know what that means :\18:24
isiahtrying to guess which ones will call it before hand would be a challenge18:24
Phreawell, maybe just the option for browsers and IM clients then18:24
Phrea:)18:24
Phreathat would be a fine start18:24
isiahan analogy "your dad controls the thermostat but thermostats can be used by anyone at any time"18:24
isiahand the thermostats cant guess when they will be adjusted18:25
PhreaI don't understand that18:25
isiahan interrupt is when a program just says "hey do something"18:25
Phreaok18:25
isiahand the OS sees if it will allow it18:25
Phreaok18:26
isiahlike flipping a switch18:26
isiahthis program seems like it waits for something to use the speakers and then identifies the name18:26
Phreawell, we know that certain types of applications can make sound, we could only list those18:26
isiaha cludge solution would simply run every program at once and set it18:27
isiah:)18:27
PhreaI am not a programmer18:27
PhreaLOL18:27
Phreathat would be fun tho :D18:27
Phreahaha18:27
isiahjust click on everything18:27
isiahhaha18:27
Phrea...amazingly stupid, but fun :D18:27
isiahwell we dont want to screw around with any drivers18:28
isiahbut we want a rule18:28
isiahlike18:28
isiah"if the program has never been run before it will get volume level x"18:28
Phreabesides, not all programs make sound all of the time, only some of the time, like a browser18:28
Phreaisiah: could work18:28
isiahhmm18:29
isiahtrying to think how to go about this18:29
Phreaare you a programmer?18:29
isiahI couldnt program a pointer to hit the broad side of a barn from the inside18:30
Phreathe thing is, I ask/say silly things, because I am not a programmer, in any sense of the word at all18:30
Phreaso I also don't know how to think like one18:30
isiahthis will take some thinking18:31
PhreaI could explain it a bit more, maybe with some home made pictures of what I exactly mean18:31
isiahtry18:32
Phreafirst, I have to do some groceries :)18:32
Phreabrb18:32
DiegoTcI am having troubles with my lan connection on my computer18:54
DiegoTclast night it works fine18:54
DiegoTcbut today on the morning it didn't connect to internet(Yes there is internet)18:55
Phreahave you checked the UTP connectors?18:55
DiegoTcyes18:55
DiegoTcmy computer has windows on int18:55
DiegoTcand on windows i have internet18:56
Phreawell, then I'm out18:56
DiegoTci did an ifconfig18:57
DiegoTchttp://pastebin.com/8dkb28VT18:59
DiegoTcand thats what i have18:59
Phreaisiah: http://i.imgur.com/vS2Kd.png and so on :)19:01
isiaharrr here be the dastardly program that plays so loudly, I banish thee to davy jone's locker!19:02
kb9cmwhow do I convert wma files to mp319:02
Phreaisiah: just a couple of standard programs in there, so one can at least mute some of the nastiness out of hand19:03
Phreaor general groups like 'browsers' and 'IM apps'19:03
Phreaso one tick will do for Fx, Opera, Chrome, etc19:04
PhreaI'm asking a lot, aren't I...19:05
isiahthis isnt the irc room you are looking for19:05
duanedesignhelllo kh9....19:05
isiahwaves hand in front of face19:05
duanedesignhmm, didnt wait very long for an answer :(19:06
Phreaoh19:06
Phreaindeed19:06
isiahok, basically the trick now is to either A find a program that does it B. re-write one so it does19:06
PhreaI was about to post this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/Applications_GUI_Multimedia/Convert_WMA_to_MP319:06
Phreaisiah: aye19:07
isiahso wanna try A first?19:07
Phreayou already found A, didn't you19:07
isiahwell, I dont think this program has folders etc.19:08
duanedesignPhrea: ahh, that is a good one19:08
Phreait should just look for installed programs, so we can chose from that list19:08
duanedesignPhrea: i was gonna post http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3779319:08
Phreaduanedesign: first hit on google...19:09
duanedesignbut i am partial to nautilus-scripts19:09
duanedesign:)19:09
Phreaoh, I only checked it briefly, to see if it was easy enough to do for a new user19:09
PhreaI'm not familiar with any kind of script, duanedesign19:10
PhreaI'm a 'dumb' user19:10
Phreaas in that I don't script or program :)19:12
duanedesignPhrea: nautilus scripts are neat. There is a folder in your home directory where you can put scripts. Then you can right-click > scripts and use them19:12
Phreasuch as bash scripts or so?19:12
Phreaor am I totally off again?19:13
duanedesignI have one that opens a terminal in that directory, one that opens the file as root in Gedit19:13
duanedesignPhrea: yep19:13
Phreaah, handy19:13
duanedesignPhrea: you can find a bunch already made for you19:13
PhreaI still do sudo nautilus, then go to the file I need19:13
Phreaduanedesign: I know :)19:13
paultag_GAH!19:14
paultag_Phrea, sudo nautilis?!19:14
duanedesign:P19:14
paultag_>:(19:14
PhreaI'm not very handy with scripts and the like19:14
Phreapaultag: what's wrong with that?19:14
paultag_over here :)19:14
Phreait's the only way I know19:14
paultag_Phrea, you hit delete on accedent and you can fsck up your system19:14
duanedesignPhrea: if you want the Gedit root one ill put it on my people.ubuntu site19:15
paultag_Phrea, it's not like running as a windows administrator19:15
Phreawell, it's the only wey Iknow how to do it19:15
paultag_Phrea, sudo is very very VERY powerful.19:15
isiahhey i gots to head out. Just wanted to say thankx again paultag_19:15
Phreaduanedesign: it's ok for now19:15
paultag_isiah, sure bud19:15
paultag_bai!19:15
Phreaoh, he's already gone :\19:15
PhreaI wanted to say bye, he helped me earlier19:16
duanedesigni got one nautilus-script called 'shred' that attempts to removes all traces of a file19:16
Phreapaultag_: I don't even know the difference between gksu[dp], sudo, etc19:16
duanedesigngksudo is when you use anything graphical19:16
Phreaso, Nautilus, for instance?19:17
duanedesignyou should use  gksudo nautilus  instead of sudo nautilus19:17
Phreawhy does sudo nautilus work too then?19:17
Phreacan you explain why?19:17
Phreabecause it works fine, it opens nautilus under root19:17
Phreawhich  is what we want, no?19:18
duanedesignPhrea: it works and a lot of times will cause no difficulties19:18
duanedesignPhrea: but their are times when it can19:19
Phreaok, but what is the difference then?19:19
Phreaboth commands open Nautilus under root19:19
Phreabe it gksudo or sudo19:19
philinuxPhrea: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo if you've not read it before.19:21
duanedesignBy default, sudo does not reset the the $HOME environment variable. So, in some cases, you may end up with files owned by root in your user's home directory.19:21
duanedesignyes that is a good one19:21
Phreaaha, so sudo nautilus is more or less just an improper way of launching nautilus under root19:22
Phreareading on...19:22
PhreaI'm getting it19:22
Phreathanks, that's very handy to know !19:22
Phreasorry for being so ignorant :)19:23
duanedesignPhrea: yes, i did not know that for a long time when i started using Ubuntu19:23
duanedesignand Ubuntu you use sudo a lot so it is important19:23
Phreaso it sais in the documentation, yes19:24
Phreabut this is actually quite important19:24
philinuxPhrea: some peeps get away with it othere end up with dmrc errors or ICEauthority problems19:24
PhreaI will never recommend sudo again, I swear !19:24
Phreaand gksudo and gksu are the same thing?19:25
philinuxYep19:25
philinuxIn kde it would be kdesu19:25
Phrea:)19:25
Phreatrying to remember :)19:26
Phrealet me try, checking an md5sum is done within the terminal, so you'd use sudo [not that it's needed with md5 checking, but you get my drift]19:27
Phreaand, gksudo is ONLY used to open an app under root priveledges and nothing more19:29
Phrea[a graphical app that is]19:29
philinuxPhrea: correct. If what you are running has a gui use gksudo, e.g gedit nautilus etc19:30
PhreaI learned an important lesson today :)19:30
Phreathanks :)19:30
philinuxDont run gksu firefox or else your profile will end up being owned by root.19:31
PhreaI would never run a browser as root...19:31
philinuxAccording to lovinglinux19:31
Phreawhy would one?19:31
philinuxpeople have when they've had a problem19:31
philinuxThen they come to the forums with the problem19:32
PhreaI don't see how running any browser as root would help troubleshooting any kind of problem19:32
PhreaI've been using Ubuntu exclusive now for a year, and I still don't know this stuff, that's just bad19:34
Phreaanybody followed the discussion I had with isiah earlier?19:35
Phreaabout controlling audio PER application without them having to run AND making sound19:37
PhreaI had to open Opera AND set it to a site that made sound, for me to be able to mute it via sound preferences under the application tab19:38
Phreahttp://i.imgur.com/vS2Kd.png --> I want that19:41
Phreasorry for the bad gimp, but I'm a bit lazy :D19:41
Phreathe man for gnome-volume-control did not help at all19:42
philinuxBEER o'clock bye guys19:55
Phrealater19:55
philinuxSee ya19:55
Phreathanks for your explanations :)19:55
Phreaunaffiliated?19:55
Phreahe should be a member, if you ask me19:56
phillwdrat missed philinux20:13
dean__hi can someone help me with a grub menu problem?20:40
hobgoblincan try20:43
hobgoblindean__: what is the problem ...20:45
=== zz_severity1 is now known as severity1
=== Phrea is now known as _Phrea_
=== _Phrea_ is now known as Phrea

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