[00:38] <doctormo> paultag: I haven't been able to get in touch with leftyfb for a while, do you think I've gone and put him out of sorts by asking not to be re-approved?
[00:39] <paultag> doctormo: he was fairly opposed to being un-approved. He also worked really hard WRT the SETC for the LoCo, and really give it 100% between work -- and I think getting un-approved could have done him no good
[00:42] <paultag> doctormo: ( which was not brought up at the meeting )
[00:43] <paultag> or aneme-con
[00:44] <doctormo> paultag: Well the items were on the wiki page, we thought we'd had enough press not to need to explain them verbosly.
[00:44] <paultag> doctormo: that's dumb
[00:46] <doctormo> paultag: Look at the irc logs, czajkowski obviously wasn't happy with the wiki page. There isn't much more we could have done there.
[00:46] <paultag> doctormo: That's not true at all
[00:47] <doctormo> Explain
[00:47] <paultag> doctormo: you could have said, I'ts incomplete, we'll come back in a month. That's what we planned to do when you did not show up
[00:49] <doctormo> paultag: It wasn't incomplete, it had everything we've done for the past year.
[00:50] <paultag> doctormo: have you seen any of the other applications?
[00:50] <doctormo> paultag: Yes, I thought they were needlessly verbose, verging on the war and peace in red tape.
[00:50] <paultag> doctormo: the I-don't-give-a-shit 'tude really does not fly with us, and that's the main reason MA is not approved right now IMHO
[00:50] <paultag> doctormo: that's what we want to see. We want to see enthusiasm and pride
[00:51] <doctormo> paultag: We have pride in Ubuntu and the events we do, less so in pandering to authorities demanding excessive verbiage.
[00:51] <paultag> doctormo: and as a result of not playing the game you lost resources
[00:52] <paultag> doctormo: it's not worth it, I know it's what you do, but it was a step back for the team
[00:52] <doctormo> paultag: Actually I thought it was as a result of asking not to have them.
[00:53] <pleia2> doctormo: I really don't see it so much as "excessive verbiage" as making one's team a shining example in front of less successful teams, approval carries the extra weight of being a good example, sharing your best practices, sharing with the community and sure, putting that on a reapproval app so czajkowski can blog about how awesome the french team app was and so other teams pipe up on the mailing list and decide to share graphs too
[00:54] <paultag> doctormo: That's not even to mention that I won't have an approved loco to come home to, so I'll have to step down as a LoCo Council Member when I move back
[00:54] <doctormo> paultag: How does that work?
[00:54] <pleia2> paultag: grandfathering is nice :)
[00:55] <paultag> doctormo: you have to be a member of an approved loco to be a loco council member
[00:55] <paultag> pleia2: until the cycle is over ;)
[00:55] <paultag> unless I fly to Ohio once a year and help with a bug jam or something
[00:55] <doctormo> Wow, red tape.
[00:55] <pleia2> I see the approved team requirement is so you're familiar with the role and responsiblity of being a member of an approved team
[00:55] <paultag> pleia2: yeah, but rules are rules :)
[00:56] <pleia2> I wouldn't say it's so rigidly set in stone
[00:56] <pleia2> we're all people, job postings also always require a college degree ;)
[00:58] <doctormo> paultag: Please understand that the team can not be a shining example, it's not gleaming, it's just one person doing everything while I bunch of other people maybe turn up a single time in a year. That's not really a team, thats just a one man band pretending to be a team. It's exactly why I intended to step down as leader, because there just isn't the roll for it, there just isn't anyone to lead here.
[00:59] <doctormo> At least me and DPic got Animeboston out of the way
[00:59]  * paultag cringes
[00:59] <paultag> DPic and I
[01:00] <paultag> doctormo: I see where you're coming from, I just think it was a short-sighted move
[01:00] <paultag> doctormo: no one said you *had* to request resources
[01:00] <doctormo> paultag: Sorry I don't understand.
[01:01] <paultag> doctormo: if you don't want to use resources, don't request them. Canonical does not send CDs without you asking. You could therefore have the same effect as being "unapproved" by not requesting anything
[01:01] <paultag> doctormo: but when we have a new member who wants to hit a con, they have to play man down and not get the full conf-pack despite the loco's history because you don't like the idea of oversight
[01:02] <paultag> doctormo: and I'll be home in less then a year, and I was planning to help
[01:02] <doctormo> paultag: Then perhaps I shouldn't have been forced to remain team leader if I could see no value in oversight.
[01:02] <paultag> doctormo: you were not forced
[01:02] <doctormo> Guilt tripped.
[01:03] <paultag> doctormo: you said "I'm not doing a good job" and everyone said "Oh no, we got your back"
[01:03] <paultag> doctormo: you should have said "I don't have time, I'm stepping down. We will hold elections on a new leader"
[01:03] <doctormo> And now? what is your plan?
[01:04] <paultag> doctormo: plan for what?
[01:04] <doctormo> I had hoped we could recover and get approved again, but your acting like it's a funeral.
[01:04] <paultag> doctormo: that just discouraged all the people who are usually active, I think. This blindsided most of the team.
[01:07] <doctormo> paultag: And what were they doing before exactly?
[01:07] <doctormo> Perhaps I'm just amazing that people who do so little could be encouraged to do any less.
[01:07] <paultag> doctormo: at least they were idle not discouraged and idle. That means that they stop being idle
[01:07] <paultag> doctormo: and that means the membership dies. At least you can have a list of members on standby for events
[01:08] <paultag> doctormo: but you can't do that if they are no longer active with the team
[01:08] <doctormo> paultag: I think when you move, you should take over, you seem to know what your doing and how to handle it.
[01:08] <paultag> doctormo: so, instead of maintaining and repairing, you're tearing it down to nothing and trying to do all the hard work over again
[01:08] <paultag> doctormo: I'm contact of Ohio
[01:08] <paultag> doctormo: I can't lead two LoCos.
[01:09] <paultag> doctormo: We should ask someone who has been active in the MA loco for longer then me, and has been in MA
[01:09] <paultag> I will contribute gladly
[01:09] <paultag> _dispite_ this epic step back
[01:12] <paultag> Anyway.
[01:15] <doctormo> paultag: I don't think it's that epic, the team goes on, we didn't deserve to be an approved team.
[01:15] <paultag> I don't care muchly for self-flagellation, that's for the council to decide during re-approvals
[01:16] <doctormo> of course it is
[01:18] <doctormo> paultag: So, I ask again, what's the plan. The LoCo council decided as an action point to be involved and help the MA team get back on it's feet.
[01:18] <paultag> doctormo: yes, we are still discussing what we'd like to see. If I were you, i'd take advantage of this lapse to step down, if you plan to :)
[01:19] <paultag> otherwise, we'll get back to you, and we ( you + council ) can start to come up with a gameplan around our framework
[01:20] <doctormo> paultag: Sounds like a plan.
[01:20] <paultag> thanks doctormo
[01:31] <doctormo> paultag: email sent
[01:33] <paultag> thanks doctormo
[01:48] <doctormo> paultag: I've handed the lp team tot he loco council, that should allow you guys to handle it.
[01:48] <paultag> I saw that, thanks
[08:26] <huats> morning !!
[09:24] <doctormo> Hey huats
[09:26] <huats> hello doctormo
[09:32] <czajkowski> morning
[09:33] <doctormo> czajkowski: Hello, I think I'll go for a cycle ride, nothing is making me sleep this night.
[09:33] <czajkowski> oh a hot shower
[09:33] <czajkowski> they put me to sleep late at night sometimes
[09:35] <huats> it is true that it is early in your place doctormo
[09:36] <nigelb> doctormo: awake since last night?
[09:55] <sense> good morning
[09:55] <czajkowski> sense: hey
[09:58] <huats> morning sense
[10:00] <czajkowski> is this channel logged or not ?
[10:00] <czajkowski> it's in the channel topic but can't see a logging bot
[10:01] <nigelb> czajkowski: its there
[10:01] <sense> czajkowski, ubuntulog
[10:01] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/23/%23ubuntu-community-team.html
[10:02] <czajkowski> ahh I sent looking to http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[10:02] <AlanBell> smile for the camera
[10:02] <nigelb> czajkowski: all core channel logs are in irclogs.ubuntu.com
[10:02] <sense> No LoCobot here!
[10:02] <czajkowski> one day I'll use my brain and remember
[10:02] <czajkowski> thanks folks
[10:03] <nigelb> G'day Tm_T ;)
[10:38] <doctormo> nigelb: Nah, I did get 4 hours between 9pm and 1am, but it's still bad. I think it was that delicious lazangia that put me out early.
[10:39] <doctormo> I wonder why ubuntu-us-ma isn't logged.
[10:39] <jussi> doctormo: probably because its pretty impossible to get a locobot...
[10:40] <jussi> Ubuntu-eu's contacts are not very contactable
[10:42] <popey> doctormo: for the record Paultag was incorrect last night when he mentioned that you have to be from an approved loco to be on the loco council. That's not a requirement.
[10:42] <sense> no
[10:43] <popey> well, not a requirement I've ever seen!
[10:43] <dholbach> jcastro: NICE blog post
[10:43] <doctormo> Oh good, for a second I thought my decision had impacted someone unknowingly.
[10:45] <popey> i can picture jcastro saying "Allow me to retort!" in a british accent for some reason
[10:46] <sense> jcastro with a British accent? That's never going to happen! :P
[10:46] <nigelb> popey: *shudder* jcastro, british accent!
[10:46] <popey> ohhhh he does it
[10:46] <popey> its funny
[10:46] <popey> actually, he only seems to do it when I'm around
[10:47] <sense> He tries to speak your language when you're near, how polite!
[10:48] <popey> haha
[10:48] <popey> as should everyone :)
[10:49] <czajkowski> yeah even jono takes my accent off. Git
[10:50] <vish> hmm , the british accent aint bad!
[10:50]  * vish mostly sees criticism only from folks being jealous ;p
[10:50] <sense> vish: which of the British accents?
[10:50] <sense> They've all got their own one over there!
[10:50] <popey> pfft
[10:50] <popey> Mine is the only real one
[10:50] <vish> lol!
[10:50] <popey> all the others are wrong
[10:50] <sense> English (popey_en_GB)
[10:50] <popey> hah
[10:51] <popey> popey_en_GB_popeyshouse
[10:51] <czajkowski> at least yours is understandable.  I was lost in Liverpool and couldnt understand a flipping word that was said by folks
[10:51] <nigelb> popey_en-AP
[10:52] <popey> says you czajkowski !
[10:52] <czajkowski> says I!
[10:53] <popey> when I'm near you I read your lips :)
[10:53] <vish> hehe, probably jcastro is the only one who can pull off "So screw that, ..." in blogs , and not sound like a jerk ;)
[10:53] <czajkowski> popey: hah!
[10:53] <nigelb> vish: +1
[10:53] <popey> he gets away with most things without sounding like a jerk
[10:53] <nigelb> vish: we picture him actually saying it and it sounds all cool :p
[10:53] <popey> because.. primarily.. he's not a jerk :)
[10:53] <vish> :)
[10:53] <sense> agreed
[10:54] <nigelb> vish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2010-07-22
[10:54] <nigelb> looks good?
[10:54] <sense> It took quite long, didn't it? :)
[10:55] <sense> Almost two hours.
[10:55] <nigelb> sense: expected.  But I feel it was good.
[10:55] <sense> yeah
[10:55] <nigelb> We have logs so bug squad can use it for the days to come
[10:55] <sense> Tremendously helpful for us, really.
[10:56] <vish> nigelb: yup , cant we edit the session?
[10:56] <vish> or add something in between , footnotes often get missed
[10:56] <nigelb> I always felt we lacked much documentation about BTS, now that closes the hole.  If somone says I dunno about BTS we can redirect to this wiki :)
[10:56] <nigelb> vish: suggested not to I think
[10:56] <nigelb> we always use footnotes
[10:57] <vish> nigelb: its not #ubuntu-debian  , its  #debian-ubuntu
[10:58] <nigelb> vish: oh yeah.  I'm in the channel and I forgot :p
[10:58] <nigelb> I'm awesome aren't I?
[10:58] <sense> Can't the other be turned into a redirect?
[10:59] <vish> nigelb: thats the problem , since there is a  #ubuntu-debian  on freenode with a bot
[10:59] <vish> gbot..
[10:59] <nigelb> sense: different network
[10:59] <sense> ah
[11:00] <vish> nigelb: i just went there and was like , "where is everyone??"
[11:00] <nigelb> heh
[11:00] <nigelb> vish: freenode or oftc?
[11:00] <vish> nigelb: on freenode
[11:01] <nigelb> vish: fixed wiki :)
[11:01] <vish>   everyone /join #ubuntu-debian
[11:01] <vish> me feels lonely there ;p
[11:03] <doctormo> vish: Do I get to go there if I wrote a guide for debian packaging?
[11:03] <vish> heh
[11:04] <czajkowski> vish: why ubuntu-debian and not debian-ubuntu on oftc
[11:04] <vish> haha, someone just joined there! and not from me poking here :D
[11:04] <doctormo> You never know!
[11:04] <vish> czajkowski: just kidding , i didnt start it , probably that channel should be shutdown , ubuntu namespace is used
[11:05] <czajkowski> vish: yup but common for people to go there tbh, I did when I first heard about the debian ubuntu stuff and automaticaly went to freenode tbh
[11:05] <czajkowski> having to join another server wa sa pita!
[11:05] <vish> yeah.. :s
[11:05] <vish> czajkowski: !blame nigelb  :D
[11:16] <jussi> ooh, can I blame nigelb as well?
[11:19] <sense> jussi: We should introduce an ASCII-art using blamebot! That would be fun!
[11:19] <jussi> sense: NO!
[11:19] <jussi> ascii art...pleh...
[11:24] <doctormo> sense: I have no problem with art, but blame... hmm sounds kinda CoCb
[11:25] <sense> Blame art! A whole new art form!
[11:25] <AlanBell> http://www.despair.com/blame.html
[11:26] <sense> :P
[11:58] <doctormo> pleia2, nigelb: Your impressions: http://imagebin.ca/view/LxZGhB.html (although don't mention how late this is)
[12:08] <vish> phew , found the thumb!
[12:08] <sense> jcastro: The link in your latest tweet results in a 404!
[12:09] <vish> doctormo: heh , i was wondering why she was showing "L"
[12:09] <doctormo> vish: Really? L?
[12:09] <vish> doctormo: yeah , why was she saying Looser!
[12:09] <doctormo> vish: But her thumb isn't sticking out.
[12:09] <vish> then found the thumb neatly tucked in :)
[12:10] <nigelb> right, everyone blame me!
[12:10] <doctormo> There we go, fixed it so the head dress is behind the hand.
[12:11] <doctormo> It was however in my defense, nigelb's fault.
[12:12] <nigelb> doctormo: pretty good!
[12:13] <nigelb> jcastro: good post!
[12:13] <nigelb> I guess unity looks very pretty now
[12:28]  * czajkowski hugs jcastro 
[12:44] <duanedesign> morning all
[12:44] <paultag> hey
[12:44] <paultag> duanedesign: what's up?
[12:45] <duanedesign> paultag: having a cup of coffee and getting oriented
[12:45] <paultag> duanedesign: nice :)
[13:08] <doctormo> paultag, nigelb: does the second page fit the title page: http://imagebin.ca/view/TkwwlSHC.html ?
[13:09] <paultag> doctormo: beable / be able
[13:09] <paultag> doctormo: answeryour / answer your
[13:10] <paultag> doctormo: otherwise it looks OK
[13:11] <nigelb> doctormo: paultag +1
[13:12] <doctormo> paultag, nigelb: Fixed the text, but I was talking about the graphic, I redrew her in a different pose and needed to know it didn't look out of place.
[13:12] <paultag> ah
[13:12] <paultag> doctormo: looks great
[13:14] <nigelb> doctormo: heh, ditto.  looks awesome
[13:14] <nigelb> though scratching head is more common when packaging :[
[13:14] <nigelb> :p
[13:15] <paultag> nigelb: true that
[13:15] <paultag> nigelb: I've been doing it for like 4 years now, and I still don't know what I'm doing. Although, that's more because I don't give it enough time.
[13:23] <sense> hi pedro_
[13:24] <pedro_> hola sense
[13:26] <sense> pedro_: Do you know if people from the Bug Squad/QA Team will be attending GUADEC?
[13:26] <pedro_> sense, i'll be attending, but i don't know if someone else from the BugSquad is going
[13:27] <sense> pedro_: Then I'll probably see you there! :)
[13:27] <sense> pedro_: Have you taken a look at <http://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2010/Trips>? We need more people to attend.
[13:27] <pedro_> sense, yes ;-), btw how long does it take to go from Amsterdam to The Hague in train?
[13:27] <pedro_> sense,  looking
[13:28] <sense> 45 minutes
[13:28] <sense> You need to go to 'Den Haag HS', the venue is practically next to that train station.
[13:28] <pedro_> awesome ;-)
[13:29] <sense> good
[13:29] <sense> Ping me if you've got any questions!
[13:29] <pedro_> sense, will do it, thanks!
[13:29] <sense> You're welcome!
[14:20] <doctormo> nigelb, paultag: Now sure about this one, your thoughts: http://imagebin.ca/view/vpD2R-fo.html
[14:22] <AlanBell> is between people and pretty
[14:22] <AlanBell> capital A on also
[14:28] <dholbach> pedro_: I don't have the necessary powers
[14:28] <dholbach> pedro_: we need bdmurray
[14:32] <akgraner> OSCON is over for me - taking some time today to get caught up...  open stack was the hot buzz this year....
[14:32] <akgraner> and Rack Space, Meego, splunk, and various others are all hiring  - go to their websites and take a look
[14:35] <pedro_> dholbach, ok, i won't edit anything then ;-)
[14:56] <dholbach> pedro_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/five-a-day-stats/+filebug :)
[16:33] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/468053/
[16:33] <AlanBell> Canonical do have an OEM relationship with Dell right?
[16:34] <paultag> AlanBell: ouch
[16:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: yup
[16:34] <paultag> AlanBell: that's not what I expected
[16:35] <AlanBell> it would be nice if they would take my money
[16:35] <paultag> AlanBell: we're still second class citizens these days.
[16:40] <jussi> far out!
[16:41] <IdleOne> important to keep in mind that end user tech support rarely have all the info they need to be able to answer questions with the correct info. That said I don't think you can buy a laptop from Dell without any OS installed
[16:42] <jussi> yes, you can
[16:42] <jussi> one of the lattitudes iirc
[16:42] <paultag> ubuntu.dell or something
[16:42] <jussi> or you used to be able to when I worked there
[16:42] <paultag> oh were you actually asking AlanBell ?
[16:42] <IdleOne> ah, well in that case Makrand_Karante  needs to ask his supervisor for more training
[16:42] <paultag> or were you having fun?
[16:43] <paultag> AlanBell: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml
[16:43] <paultag> AlanBell: dell.com/ubuntu <-- short url
[16:43] <paultag> store here http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
[16:43] <AlanBell> well actually I bought two samsung laptops a while back
[16:44] <paultag> AlanBell: I thought you were having fun with them. I found these pages a while ago and bookmarked them
[16:44] <AlanBell> I had a similar conversation full of fail with Dell at the time
[16:44] <popey> 16:42:16 < jussi> one of the lattitudes iirc
[16:44] <popey> depends on the region/country
[16:44] <popey> each country lead decides what that region sells
[16:44] <jussi> popey: ahh, I was in irish sales
[16:44] <AlanBell> I really really wanted to get a dell pre-installed with ubuntu, two of them and I didn't care what the cost was
[16:44] <AlanBell> they wouldn't trade with me
[16:45] <popey> you tried over the phone?
[16:45] <AlanBell> so today was just asking again, I knew what the outcome would be
[16:45] <popey> I hear you can get more success that way
[16:45] <AlanBell> they had a vostro at the time which was listed as Ubuntu coming in March (this was in May)
[16:45] <AlanBell> that has now gone
[16:45] <jussi> AlanBell: call up, seriously.
[16:46] <popey> I have also heard of companies becoming dell resellers and being able to resell with no OS
[16:46] <popey> or add their own OS
[16:46] <AlanBell> I did talk to them on the phone, eventually managed to get a quote with a month of lead time from a business advisor
[16:46] <jussi> the sales reps on the phones can do strange things ;)
[16:46] <AlanBell> cost more than the one with windows
[16:47] <jussi> AlanBell: did he send you a list of stuff in it? (quote)
[16:47] <AlanBell> it was a special order thing, yes I have the quote somewhere
[16:47] <AlanBell> point is they are not on retail sale
[16:47]  * popey starts a chat session
[16:48] <jussi> AlanBell: if you dont mind, could you share it with me?
[16:48] <czajkowski> heheh
[16:48] <maco> oh thats interesting
[16:48] <popey> "Please enter valid Email Address
[16:48] <popey>    
[16:48] <popey> *STAB* *STAB* *STAN*
[16:48] <popey> err
[16:48] <popey> not Stan, he's nice
[16:49] <popey> it wont let me use alan+dell @ foobar.com
[16:49] <maco> on the US site they have the mini 10n and the inspiron 15n with ubuntu 9.10, and pics and starting price listed and all. and then just links (no info) for "shop vostro v13 with ubuntu linux 9.04" and "shop latitude 2100 with ubuntu linux 9.04" ... jaunty??? SO BEHIND
[16:49] <czajkowski> anyone else find this annoying - CLick on the Ubuntu link http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=ie&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu+&cat=all&x=0&y=0
[16:49] <AlanBell> yes
[16:50] <AlanBell> I clicked the shop for ubuntu laptops and didn't find any which is why I started the chat
[16:50] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ahh we can now buy latitures over here
[16:50] <czajkowski> *latitudes
[16:51] <czajkowski> I am rather shocked
[16:51] <czajkowski> that's new
[16:51] <jussi> is this something superm1 can prod someone about?
[16:51] <paultag> maco: aye
[16:51] <popey> 16:51:11   	  	 Ritam_Sengupta 	
[16:51] <popey> I have seen your initial query - Online you would not find laptops without OS Alan 16:51:21   	  	 Ritam_Sengupta 	
[16:51] <popey> A Latitude can be configured without OS though
[16:51] <paultag> maco: they might still use lpia?
[16:51] <popey> sorry :(
[16:52] <maco> paultag: wasnt lpia the low power cpu?
[16:52] <paultag> maco: yeah low power ia
[16:52] <paultag> intel arch
[16:52] <paultag> sorry :)
[16:52] <maco> i didnt think any of dells "normal" machines used it
[16:52] <maco> actually i thought vostro was a higher power machine.
[16:52] <paultag> maco: the lpia build was for dell iirc, and was used on their netbooks, and it was jaunty IIRC
[16:52] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/468065/  AlanBell
[16:52] <paultag> I don't think the newer builds had lpia
[16:53] <popey> depends who/how you ask :)
[16:53] <maco> oh nope. vostro is celery
[16:53] <maco> paultag: neither vostro nor latitude is a netbook
[16:53] <AlanBell> popey: sure, but that isn't the point
[16:53] <popey> its part of the point
[16:53] <AlanBell> you shouldn't have to insist
[16:53] <popey> i didnt insist :)
[16:53] <paultag> maco: you make a convincing argument
[16:54] <popey> she offered
[16:54] <paultag> maco: perhaps they want to sync major release numbers?
[16:54] <paultag> I have no clue
[16:54] <AlanBell> oh, so she did, on the latitude
[16:54] <paultag> I would sure as heck not run it like that
[16:54] <maco> with 8.04 didnt they have a rule that you werent allowed to upgrade to the new releases?
[16:55] <maco> WOW
[16:55] <czajkowski> yup
[16:56] <czajkowski> it was bloody annoying
[16:56] <maco> on the vostro they dont let you configure *anything* except warranty length and buying accessories
[16:56] <czajkowski> I wiped my machine and just did a clean install
[16:56] <popey> surely that was due to it being an lpia build
[16:56] <maco> cpu and hard drive are fixed
[16:56] <czajkowski> popey: yes
[16:56] <AlanBell> that was lpia
[16:56] <popey> and lpia builds for the next releases weren't available
[16:56] <popey> which made upgrades 'hard'
[16:56] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/07/23/why-windows-still-has-good-sales-figures/
[16:57] <maco> wait
[16:57] <maco> AlanBell: YOU'RE the open sourcerer?
[16:57] <AlanBell> one of them
[16:57] <jussi> lol
[16:57] <maco> there's more than one?
[16:57] <czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/468069/
[16:57] <AlanBell> /author/alanbell is me
[16:58] <popey> hahah czajkowski got the same person as I
[16:58] <popey> and argued with them :)
[16:58] <czajkowski>  16:57:25   	  	 Ritam_Sengupta 	
[16:58] <czajkowski> Thank you for the information Laura. Unfortunately, I can only bring you information pertaining to what I have in the UK.
[16:58] <czajkowski>  16:57:35   	  	 Ritam_Sengupta 	
[16:58] <czajkowski> Sorry for this. I would love to bring you the right solution
[16:58] <czajkowski> I am not in the UK
[16:58] <czajkowski>  16:57:39   	  	 laura laura.czajkowski@gmail.com 	
[16:58] <paultag> >:D
[16:58] <paultag> LET'S RAID DELL GUISE
[16:58] <paultag> that's all I can hear in my head
[16:58] <paultag> they must be starting to hate us
[16:59] <popey> yes, I'd recommend not "doing an FSF" and trying to DDOS Dell
[16:59] <popey> that would be double plus ungood
[16:59] <paultag> oh popey, you and your newspeak
[16:59] <maco> czajkowski: did you tell her what models i said were on the US one?
[16:59] <AlanBell> maco: Alan Lord is the other one
[17:00] <czajkowski> maco: yup
[17:00] <czajkowski> and then she said she didnt know
[17:03] <maco> czajkowski: was "i'm not in the uk" the angry-republic-of-ireland-person in you?
[17:04] <czajkowski> no not at all republican in me, I just find it annoying
[17:05] <czajkowski> maco: think of it as the americans call ing the canadians americans
[17:05] <maco> well technically they are
[17:05] <maco> north americans
[17:07] <IdleOne> uh, so maco is Canadian also?
[17:07] <paultag> wooo!!!
[17:07] <maco> hhaha no
[17:07] <paultag> I'm Canadian, I guess :D
[17:07] <paultag> finally!
[17:07] <maco> not all americans are canadian, but all canadians are american ;-)
[17:07] <paultag> Ey?
[17:07] <maco> venn diagram time!
[17:08] <maco> big circle = american
[17:08] <maco> medium circles = north american, south american
[17:08] <maco> and in those, little circles for canada, us, mexico, paraguay, uruguay, chile, argentina, brazil...
[17:08] <paultag> maco: Are people from Hawaii Americans?
[17:09] <maco> ...yes?
[17:09] <IdleOne> they are Pacifists
[17:09] <paultag> IdleOne++;
[17:09] <IdleOne> wait, Pacificers
[17:09] <maco> pacific islanders :P
[17:09] <maco> i thought you needed to go farther west for that
[17:09] <maco> like indonesia
[17:09] <paultag> maco: zomg they were right! Obama is not an American
[17:09] <maco> and the philipines
[17:09]  * paultag facepalms
[17:10] <czajkowski> paultag: tis true, he;s Irish
[17:10] <paultag> :P
[17:10] <maco> czajkowski: did you ever see the cartoon "there's no one as irish as barack o'bama"?
[17:10] <czajkowski> http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0315/obamab.html
[17:10] <paultag> Ha!
[17:10] <czajkowski> paultag: I wasn't joking ....
[17:10] <czajkowski> maco: aye
[17:10] <IdleOne> His mother was Irish?
[17:11] <czajkowski> great grand father
[17:11] <IdleOne> ha
[17:11] <maco> 2 more greats
[17:11] <IdleOne> related to the Kennedy family
[17:11] <IdleOne> ?
[17:11] <paultag> well thank you anyway czajkowski :)
[17:11] <paultag> IdleOne: aahaha, no way. He would have been shot by now
[17:12] <maco> paultag: he's been under SS protection since a year before the election
[17:12] <czajkowski> KEANEY not KENNEDY
[17:12] <paultag> Oh, doh
[17:12] <paultag> maco: I was making a kennedy joke
[17:12] <czajkowski> fecking americans :p
[17:12] <AlanBell> maco: did you see the video and song?
[17:12] <paultag> maco: in very poor taste
[17:12] <maco> AlanBell: the one i mentioned?
[17:12] <AlanBell> yeah
[17:13] <maco> clearly if i mentioned it!
[17:13] <AlanBell> ah, but you said it was a cartoon
[17:14] <AlanBell> I didn't realise you meant the same thing I had seen
[17:14] <IdleOne> Why is evolution so messed up
[17:14] <IdleOne> the email client I mean
[17:14] <paultag> IdleOne: It's GNOME
[17:15] <IdleOne> you kde people think you're all so great with your working applications
[17:15] <paultag> IdleOne: hell, and 4.0 was from scratch. It's like we're showing off ;)
[17:16] <IdleOne> sure not one little bit of borrowed code
[17:16] <IdleOne> LIES!
[17:16] <IdleOne> all lies!
[17:16] <paultag> hahaha
[17:16] <paultag> the Microsoft effect
[17:16] <IdleOne> KDE is Gnome with a shinny GUI
[17:16] <IdleOne> admit it!
[17:17] <paultag> *THERE* ARE *TWO* LIGHTS
[17:17] <IdleOne> it was 4 but I got the reference :P
[17:17] <paultag> haaha, wow, I just got out-nerded
[17:17] <IdleOne> lol
[17:18] <paultag> you are a gentleman and a scholar
[17:18] <jussi> ok, time to pack the PC up :/ laptop from here on in...
[17:18] <IdleOne> funny I was watching TNG yesterday and wondered why there is no internet on Star Trek
[17:18] <paultag> IdleOne: well they finally figured out the current model sucks ;)
[17:19] <paultag> IdleOne: TCP/Subspace
[17:19] <IdleOne> There was a episode in season two where Data was about to explain TCP/IP and then Picard told him to shut up
[17:20] <paultag> aaaahahahahhaah
[17:20] <paultag> I need to watch TNG again
[17:20] <paultag> I forgot way too much :)
[17:20] <IdleOne> I got 7 seasons here
[17:20] <doctormo> pleia2, nigelb, jcastro, dinda: could you please review this community pdf: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/foo/ask-smart-questions.pdf It's short, easy to read, and overdue.
[17:21] <paultag> IdleOne: ach! Man, I need to get me a copy, are they torrented or the box set?
[17:21] <IdleOne> yes
[17:21] <IdleOne> :/
[17:21] <paultag> Oh good answer
[17:21] <maco> AlanBell: isnt it an animated thingy with his head clipped in and whatnot?
[17:21] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk
[17:22] <maco> thats not the original
[17:23] <pleia2> doctormo: presumably this is directed at asking smart questions in ubuntu channels?
[17:23] <maco> or at least not the one im thinking of
[17:24] <maco> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HplZ_taHXLM&feature=related that one
[17:25] <paultag> maco: sounds the same :)
[17:25] <doctormo> pleia2: yes
[17:25] <maco> i havent got speakers so i wouldnt know
[17:25] <paultag> maco: ah no biggie.
[17:25] <maco> im referring to which /video/ though
[17:25] <paultag> Oh does anyone have speakers and want to get real classy right now?
[17:25] <paultag> Prereq: One (1) Classy drink
[17:26] <paultag> In three browser tabs open:
[17:26] <paultag> http://www.rainymood.com/
[17:26] <pleia2> doctormo: I like it (and the pictures make me grin!), but I'd pop by #ubuntu-irc and get their thoughts too
[17:26] <paultag> http://www.endlessyoutube.com/watch?v=HMnrl0tmd3k
[17:26] <AlanBell> maco: same song, looks like the cartoon version was released a month later than the montage
[17:26] <paultag> http://www.endlessyoutube.com/watch?v=DIx3aMRDUL4
[17:26] <maco> AlanBell: ah. well, cartoon's more amusing
[17:27] <doctormo> Thanks pleia2, will do.
[17:27] <AlanBell> it is
[17:29] <doctormo> nhandler: irc.oftc.net ?
[17:30] <nhandler> doctormo: What about it?
[17:31] <doctormo> nhandler: why would all debian and ubuntu channels be on freenode but the crossover be on oftc?
[17:32] <nhandler> doctormo: Debian chanels aren't on freenode. They are on oftc
[17:32] <nhandler> And #debian-ubuntu has existed for a while
[17:32] <doctormo> Ahr, joining one server is hard enough with Empathy, didn't the debian project think of me back in 1994!
[17:32] <doctormo> Debian just doesn't have any empathy!
[17:33] <paultag> seeing as how they predated us
[17:33] <paultag> it's really us who have no empathy
[17:33] <paultag> which is cool, but still
[17:39] <pleia2> that said, debian moved after the ubuntu project was launched
[17:39] <pleia2> they used to officially be on freenode, moved to oftc in the middle of 2006 ;)
[17:40] <pleia2> I work with other projects which live on oftc though, so it was no great hardship for me
[17:51] <czajkowski> but there are debian channels on freenode  as well
[17:55] <nhandler> There are some (i.e. #debian), but oftc is the official home (just like freenode is Ubuntu's home)
[18:05] <czajkowski> yup
[18:06] <highvoltage> bonjour á tous
[18:06] <czajkowski> highvoltage: salut
[18:07]  * nhandler notes highvoltage is identified :)
[18:08] <nigelb> oh, no! the canucks got to highvoltage :p
[18:11] <czajkowski> nhandler: when are the reports due ?
[18:13] <[N]> czajkowski: A week from sunday
[18:13] <czajkowski> grand
[18:13] <czajkowski> thanks
[18:13] <nigelb> [N]: nice nick ;)
[18:13] <[N]> Np
[18:13] <[N]> nigelb: I use it when on my iPod
[18:14] <nigelb> [N]: heh, appropriate
[18:14] <[N]> My irssi is to big to use from the iPod
[18:14] <highvoltage> nhandler: heh, yep I got to my config and got my password... then it didn't work because an admin already reset it for me without telling me about it so that was kind of confusing :)
[18:29] <AlanBell> doctormo: nice PDF
[18:36] <nigelb> doctormo: WOW! Its turned out beautiful!
[18:38] <popey> that dell ubuntu vs windows thing is getting mentioned in mainstream places, not just by us!
[18:38] <AlanBell> really?
[18:39] <popey> PCPro podcast mentioned it in their latest episode
[18:39] <popey> its really making us look quite the joke
[18:39] <popey> via Dell
[18:39] <popey> they were on the 'right' side of it, in that they thought it was daft too
[18:41] <AlanBell> they might as well just take the page down altogether
[18:42]  * sense agrees completely with AlanBell continues ranting against Dell. Go on, this is good ranting! They deserve it, it's almost like they want to sell nothing with this bad marketing.
[18:43] <AlanBell> it is a failure of the capitalist free market amongst other things
[18:44] <nigelb> was always bound to fail
[18:44]  * nigelb hides :p
[18:46] <AlanBell> about the only way to get a decent laptop in the UK that doesn't count towards Microsoft's sales figures is to get a macbook pro
[18:47] <popey> hah
[18:47] <nigelb> AlanBell: or bribe someone to buy it from zareason and pick it up when you go for uds
[18:47] <AlanBell> wrong keyboard
[18:47] <popey> us keyboard
[18:48] <popey> wrong wireless firmware too
[18:48] <nigelb> gah, may be wrong color too :p
[18:49] <sense> popey: Don't tell me the British have got their own keyboard!?
[18:49] <AlanBell> £
[18:49] <popey> and a proper sized enter key
[18:49] <nigelb> ah!
[18:49] <nigelb> lol
[18:49] <sense> We've got US International with €.
[18:50] <sense> but for that you need Alt Grp
[18:50] <AlanBell> alt-gr 4 € also @ and # are in the wrong place on the US keyboard
[18:50] <nigelb> AlanBell: its a new market :D Start Alan Laptops :D
[18:50] <maco> no.  theyre in the wrong place on the british keyboard
[18:50] <sense> Alt Gr 5 for € here
[18:50] <nigelb> AlanBell: wrong in the UK one you mean
[18:51] <sense> AlanBell: You mean you don't have @ on 2?
[18:51] <AlanBell> shift 2 is "
[18:51] <nigelb> that is soooo wrong
[18:51] <sense> AlanBell: You're just like the French. Always wanting their own stuff. :P
[18:51] <nigelb> hahaha
[18:51] <maco> um i imagine if you asked you could get a british keyboard
[18:51] <sense> With their Azerty.
[18:51] <maco> they do british power cords if asked
[18:51] <nigelb> its the square or the round?
[18:52] <sense> Triangle cords!
[18:52] <AlanBell> maco: possibly, but I still have import problems and no overnight gratification
[18:52] <nigelb> AlanBell: you'll ever get overnight gratification
[18:53] <nigelb> AlanBell: also, I'm surprised lennovo doesn't sell laptop without OS in UK
[18:53] <nigelb> They do that in India
[18:53] <maco> wow thsi conversation could take a dirty turn those last few lines
[18:53] <sense> nigelb: Ubuntu is a lot bigger in India than in the UK.
[18:53] <AlanBell> I just want to go to one of the manufacturers, like Dell, HP, Lenovo, look at the range and say "yup, I will take two of them, but with Ubuntu not Windows."
[18:54] <AlanBell> not go through some special order process or under the counter deal
[18:54] <nigelb> maco: depends on the angle you look at them
[18:54]  * popey tilts his head to the side
[18:54]  * popey looks at nigelb 
[18:54] <nigelb> AlanBell: cant even get no OS deal
[18:54] <nigelb> ?
[18:54] <AlanBell> nope, they won't do it
[18:54]  * nigelb grins at popey
[18:54] <nigelb> AlanBell: so full of fail
[18:56] <AlanBell> maco: were you being rude?
[18:56] <AlanBell> tut tut
[18:56] <maco> AlanBell: you said it!
[18:57]  * maco guesses thats a perfectly innocent phrase in the UK and not here
[18:57] <sense> maco is hinting at the "overnight gratification"?
[18:57] <AlanBell> normally when I say something that has a double meaning I do it on purpose
[18:57] <maco> sense: yes
[18:58] <maco> AlanBell: trouble is, i cant find the other meaning
[18:58] <maco> do you mean shipping?
[18:58] <nigelb> maco: no, get it next day
[18:58] <sense> maco: customs, maybe?
[18:58] <AlanBell> yes, I mean next day shipping
[18:58] <nigelb> i.e., order today and get it tomorrow
[18:58] <maco> ok
[18:58] <AlanBell> but your meaning was funnier
[18:58] <popey> http://twitter.com/KerryatDell/status/19067672439
[18:58]  * nigelb wonders if gratification has been abused to that extent in US
[18:59] <popey> dell and cambridge university... high performance computing facility... wonder what OS those Dell servers are running...
[19:00] <maco> nigelb: pm?
[19:07] <nigelb> popey: the HPC option gives me 4 server options
[19:08] <nigelb> windows, rh, rhel, and suse linux
[19:09] <popey> fancy that
[19:09] <nigelb> heh, I dont think anyone would get window for an HPC
[19:10] <nigelb> i mean, its supposed to be high performance.  high performance windows would be an oxymoron :p
[19:10] <nigelb> Just like "Microsoft Works" :D :D
[19:10] <duanedesign> :D
[19:11] <vish> Wicrosoft does work!
[19:11] <vish> err , Microsoft!
[19:11] <nigelb> see, full of fail :p
[19:11] <vish> ;p
[19:12] <vish> nigelb: well , most of the stuff does work out of the box , and for someone who does not want to do the work of tweaking and getting hardware to work , it is better to stick with M$ ;)
[19:12] <vish> rather has to work out of the box with M$
[19:13] <nigelb> vish: well, the computers I own had less tweaking on linux compared to windows
[19:13] <sense> true
[19:13] <vish> nigelb: liar!
[19:14] <vish> nigelb: did you have hardware problems with windows preinstalled systems?
[19:14] <nigelb> yup
[19:15] <nigelb> mic refused to work properly :/
[19:15] <vish> nigelb: heh , then you can send it back ;)
[19:15] <vish> *they* will fix it
[19:15] <nigelb> well, works on linux fine
[19:18] <vish> nigelb: well , you must be the lucky one ;)  .. else you wont hear blogs about people writing, "hoorah , everything works out of the box with Ubuntu 10.04 now" ;)
[19:19] <nigelb> haha
[20:49] <doctormo> jcastro: Where has jono gone? I feel like I haven't seen him much all summer.
[20:51] <doctormo> vish: Actually my super secrete personal opinion is that everyone should have Ubuntu, even if half their computer hardware doesn't work. Most people don't use that half of their computer anyway.
[20:53] <vish> doctormo: well , mine too, though not a secret opinion ;)
[20:53] <doctormo> vish: Come to Ubuntu, have it installed! Have both, have everything! What's stopping you!
[22:58] <doctormo> pleia2: Not much chatter on the questions guide, could I ask a favour and get you to hype it to get it into more hands?
[22:58] <doctormo> It's one of those things I think more people should be aware of and you might be able to advertise it a little better than me,.
[22:59] <pleia2> doctormo: sure thing
[23:01] <doctormo> pleia2: I was planning on asking jono of jcastro, but they seem MIA ATM.
[23:02] <pleia2> oh yeah, you'll have to settle for me
[23:02] <pleia2> :)
[23:28] <doctormo> pleia2: :-) I think your closer to IRC team anyway.
[23:30] <pleia2> doctormo: I'm thinking about doing a full blog entry about this, with comments after each slide based on my experience and explaining why said slide is awesome, thoughts?
[23:30] <doctormo> pleia2: Sounds really cool, then more people will be more likely to read it all I think.
[23:31] <doctormo> Instead of just download the pdf and put it off.
[23:31] <doctormo> *reading it*
[23:31] <pleia2> great
[23:37] <doctormo> pleia2: One thing, be sure to note the revision and date, so if I do updates it'll be obvious your review was based on a prior version?
[23:37] <pleia2> will do