/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/23/#ubuntu-manual.txt

dakergodbyk, ping01:07
godbykdaker: pong01:08
dakerhow to add a space between two paragraphs ?01:09
dakeri used \\ but it's not working01:09
dakeralso the \linebreak[2] is not working01:10
godbykdaker: As just a one-time thing or do you always want space between your paragraphs?01:12
dakeralways01:12
dakerthe paragraphs are too close01:12
godbykPut \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip} before your \begin{document}01:12
godbyk\baselineskip will give you one line of blank space.01:12
godbykyou can use 2\baselineskip for two lines, etc.  also, 0.5\baselineskip for half a line.01:13
godbyk(you can use other dimensions, if you prefer.. like 3mm or 0.25in or 12pt)01:13
dakerthe default is one line ?01:15
godbykthe default is no space.01:16
dakerno he add a space01:17
dakerbetween paragraphs and to the TOC01:17
godbykI don't understand.01:19
godbykThe default space between paragraphs in the article class, for instance, is technically 1 to 2 pt.01:20
dakerit's a book class not article01:21
dakerwhen i did \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}01:21
dakera space is added between paragraphs01:22
dakerand between the titles of the toc01:22
godbykAh, yeah, that's true.01:24
godbykThe \parskip length is used in multiple places for different things.01:24
godbykbook class has the same spacing as the article class.. 0-1pt.  (not 1-2 like I said before. sorry. misread the code.)01:25
godbyktry moving your \setlength command to someplace after the \tableofcontents comand.01:26
godbykthen it should only affect things below that point.01:27
godbyk(though there are likely to be other undesirable side-effects to globally setting the \parskip length like this.)01:27
dakerlast Question01:33
dakerhow can reduce the height between the top and the content01:34
godbykthe top margin?01:37
dakeryep01:38
godbykI would use the geometry package.01:38
godbyk\usepackage[top=0.5in]{geometry}01:38
godbykrun 'texdoc geometry' to see the manual for it.01:38
godbykbut you can set the top, bottom, left, and right margins with it (among other things).01:38
dakeri use01:38
daker\usepackage[paperwidth=150mm, paperheight=200mm,left=15mm,top=15mm,width=120mm, height=160mm,headheight=6mm,headsep=4mm,footskip=10mm,marginparsep=2mm,marginparwidth=13mm]{geometry}01:38
godbykyeah, just adjust the top margin from 15 mm to something smaller.01:39
dakeroki01:39
godbykWhat are you working on, if you don't mind my asking?01:40
dakeri dont know what we call that in english01:45
dakeroh ye it's something like a dissertation study01:47
dakerit's for the university01:47
brandonjthesis01:47
dakerwe can call it like that01:48
godbykdaker: cool01:48
godbykHey, humphreybc-cell01:48
* humphreybc-cell groans01:49
humphreybc-cellHeya01:49
godbykhumphreybc-cell: what're you groaning about? :)01:49
humphreybc-cellSo much to do01:49
humphreybc-cellNot enough time01:49
humphreybc-cellAnd I have had a very unproductive week01:50
humphreybc-cellI see Greek is done01:50
humphreybc-cellYay!01:50
godbykhumphreybc-cell: I hear ya.  There was a big wind storm here, and I didn't have electricity for 3 days.01:51
humphreybc-cellHaha01:51
godbykBut yeah, we released the Greek manual.  So feel free to unleash the fanfare.01:51
humphreybc-cellMy except01:51
humphreybc-cellBlah01:51
humphreybc-cellAndroid. ..01:51
godbykI blame my phone for my bad typing skills, too. ;-)01:52
humphreybc-cellMy excuse is that I have been dating a girl that I met last weekend01:52
godbyk(Stupid Swype keyboard nails me all the time.)01:52
godbykAh, congrats.01:52
humphreybc-cellHaha thanks01:53
godbyk@%$#@!01:53
godbykI hate you so very much, OpenOffice!01:53
* daker is always faithful to his computer01:53
godbykThe spreadsheet I've been typing numbers into by hand for the past 30 minutes just crashed.01:53
humphreybc-cellAnyway she's going away skiing this weekend so I should be able to get stuff done01:53
godbykAnd their lame recovery thing did nothing for me.  Nothing!01:53
godbykHate!01:53
* godbyk fumes.01:53
humphreybc-cellOh bummer!01:54
godbykI'm going back to vim and text files.01:54
humphreybc-cellBut to be yoga01:54
godbykAnd I'm gonna write a python script to crunch these numbers for me.01:54
humphreybc-cellFuck you android keyboard01:54
* daker don't trust cell phones01:54
humphreybc-cellLol01:54
daker\o/01:54
dakermy lovely keyboard01:55
daker:p01:55
dakerwith big keys and big letters01:55
zkriesse lol01:55
humphreybc-cellBut to be totally honest, at the moment I'm focussing on OMG! stuff - trying to set up a business and new sites. This weekend I'm going to create a nmerchandisr store =/01:55
zkriessebunch of cooks01:55
godbykcool01:56
* humphreybc-cell has ginormous fingers and a tiny android keyboard 01:56
humphreybc-cellYeah it's cool but I feel bad having not done much manual stuff recently01:57
dakeri confirm your feelings01:58
daker:p01:59
godbykI'm gonna zone out and watch a movie.  Should I go with The Road, Alice and Wonderland, or Shutter Island?02:00
dakershutter Island02:00
dakercrasy movie02:00
godbykokay. shutter island it is. :)02:01
infosoft_godbyk: I've reported a bug related to NetworkManager screenshot.10:57
jenkinsinfosoft: can you please explain what is wrong with the network manager screenshot?11:26
jenkinsas far as I can tell the only difference is the icons and the "enable wireless" line. The icons don't show on the default theme11:27
infosoftThe screenshot included in manual has option Enable Networking, but NetworkManager now has also option Enable Wireless.11:28
jenkinsinfosoft: the enable wireless has always been there I assume who ever took the screenshot did not have a wifi card11:29
infosoftOh, ok then11:29
infosoftSorry for that11:29
jenkinsI can soon redo it with the wifi line in11:29
jenkinsits nice to see people being observant :)11:30
infosoftIn the image above, the check box next to ``Enable Networking'' is currently selected; you can deselect it to disable all network connections. This may be useful if you need to shut off all wireless communication, such as when in an airplane.11:31
infosoftThat's not true11:31
jenkinsthat is wrong11:31
infosoftIf you uncheck Enable networking, you disable wired connections11:31
jenkinsyep who ever wrote it got it wrong11:31
infosoftNeeds updating :) When is lucid-e2 freeze (editing freeze) deadline?11:33
jenkinsno idea :(11:33
jenkinsI will attach a new screenshot later11:33
infosoftFor some reasons I thought deadline is 29th of this month.11:34
infosoft*think11:35
jenkinsthat rings a bell but it thought it was last month11:35
infosoftIt's hard to translate when we don't know how much updates there will be :)11:36
infosoftHowever it's good that I can instead of translating wrong entries just to add modified translations with these bugs fixed.11:41
jenkinsyep the translators do fix lots of bugs as they translate, alot of them are spotted because of that11:47
jenkinsdutchie: can we update the lucid-e2 template?11:47
jenkinsespecially as that is now the translation focus11:47
dutchieer11:48
dutchiebloody hell, po4a11:52
dutchiejenkins: can you see if the following command works for you?11:53
dutchiepo4a -v --no-translations --copyright-holder "The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-name ubuntu-manual --package-version `bzr revno` po4a.conf11:53
jenkinsjust going to pull and then I will try it11:53
jenkinspo4a: Couldn't determine the input document's charset. Please specify it on the command line.11:54
jenkins (non-ASCII char at ./default-apps/browsingtheweb.tex  :238)11:54
jenkinsnot a clue what charater that is that line looks fine to me11:55
dutchiestick a "-MUTF-8" in11:58
jenkinsit appears to be working, I have just thought does godbyk want to get the layout sported before the translators start work? So it is less work to release this edition12:00
jenkinsdutchie: before i do it should I pull the latest po files from launchpad as well?12:07
dutchieyes12:08
jenkinswoops I will have to do it all again12:08
jenkinsright lets try again12:36
jenkinsdutchie: http://paste.ubuntu.com/467950/ what have I done wrong?12:38
jenkinsI have been called away be back in a bit12:39
dutchienothing12:39
dutchiei don't know what's causing that12:39
jenkinsdutchie: I guess you are getting an error as well13:06
dutchiethe same one13:07
jenkinshmm13:07
jenkinsdutchie: I am going to ask in #po4a on irc.oftc.net13:09
dutchiealready there :)13:09
jenkinso there are loads of people13:10
dutchietwo of them are the same :)13:10
dutchieand one is a bot13:10
jenkinslol13:10
jenkinsand ones me and the other is you so there are 2 people who might be able to answer us13:11
jenkinshappy birthday for tomorrow dutchie13:12
dutchiethanks13:12
jenkinsI have to go now should be back later, dutchie please let me know if you fix it13:19
jenkinsbye13:19
daker!nowplaying15:16
dakerouups15:17
infosoftdaker: wtf???15:17
dakernothing :D15:17
nisshhlol15:17
infosoft!now_sitting15:18
dakerXchat plugin15:18
daker\o/15:18
dakerstupid plugin15:18
infosoftI miss Konversation. After finishing translating manual I'll be glad to delete Ubuntu :D (I prefer Arch Linux + KDE)15:19
dakeri don't use KDE :)15:25
dakeri love Gnome & Gnome loves me15:25
* nisshh is loving gentoo + fluxbox!15:26
nisshhfast as hell!15:26
infosoftFluxbox is nice too. I like e17, but it's still beta (or alpha) version.15:31
nisshhinfosoft: if you install gentoo properly (compile everything yourself, not use any binaries) its extremely fast :)15:32
nisshhfor comparison15:33
nisshhon ubuntu i can start firefox in about 6-10 seconds15:33
nisshhin gentoo i can start it in about 2-315:33
infosoftCompiling takes lots of time, but I don't have time :D I know about the speed.15:33
nisshhinfosoft: yea, but the compiling is worth it for the speed gain15:34
nisshhinfosoft: while compiling everything i just chrooted from ubuntu, so i can multitask15:34
infosoftI still prefer Arch Linux. Not too geeky, not too user friendly :)15:35
nisshhyea15:36
infosoftSometimes I need to connect projector, so I'm afraid that it may not work if I'd use environment without administration centre like KDE has. I tried Gnome + Arch. It was fast, but I wasn't able to listen music via USB speakers (while it worked perfectly while using KDE).15:38
nisshhright15:39
nisshhgentoo has everything i need, except flash and java are a serious problem to try and install15:39
thorwili used gentoo for quite a while, then i found stuff would break to often, costing me precious time to fix it15:42
infosoftFor working in office or somewhere else I'd choose Fedora (not Ubuntu, not Mint, not openSUSE). It's quite adorable, because it requires some knowledge + no need to compile packages (if you need to do tasks while on hurry). Arch is quite stable (sometimes more stable than Ubuntu) :)15:43
nisshhthorwil: hmmm, hasnt for me yet, but then again iv only been using it for 2 weeks or so15:43
flanAnyone else following the discussion on bug #1?15:48
flan(Though I suppose it doesn't matter 'cause most of you are probably also subscribed to omgubuntu)15:48
* flan is a Debian loyalist.15:49
* flan used to be active with Arch, and still uses Gentoo for testing stuff.15:50
popeyi can't believe people still post to bug 115:50
nisshhflan: what about bug #1?15:50
popeynobody says _anything_ new on that bug report15:50
nisshhpopey: i think i might have15:50
nisshhi a long time ago15:51
thorwilpopey: there are too many comments on that bug, so people don't read what's there already, as they only have enough time to add their own oh-so important *fresh* insight!15:52
popeyindeed15:52
nisshhagreed15:52
popeyLOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I'M TALKING NOW!15:52
nisshhi believe this is the first of popey's rants that iv witnessed :)15:53
popeyhah15:53
flanWell, yes, that's exactly what its discussion has become.15:54
flanI'm not saying it's worth following (I just do it 'cause it's amusing).15:54
* nisshh goes and has a look at the comments on bug #115:54
flanBut there was a link to an omgubuntu page with a Dell ad for Netbook Remix 9.10.15:55
thorwilthat's also what happened with the wm button "discussion". i guess the whole internet would shrink to a fraction if all that duplication would get thrown out15:55
flanhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/best-advert-for-ubuntu-you-probably.html15:55
flanWM button?15:55
nisshhthorwil: exactly, i dont get why that was such a big deal, it was a very trivial change15:56
thorwilflan: the omg! they are on the wrong side, in the wrong order thing15:56
flanOh, that.15:56
nisshhflan i saw that earier today, its good ad :)15:56
flanMy only qualm with the buttons is that the ^ and v shapes are less intuitive than the old box form or Apple's +/-.15:57
flanI keep my panels on the top and right sides of my display. ^ kinda suggests that the window will be iconified and v suggests it'll be zoomed.15:57
flan(Relative to my layout)15:58
thorwilflan: i had no problem getting used to the on the left, but i still mix up min/max sometimes. guess i have to patch my theme there15:59
flanAh. So I'm not alone.15:59
flanAlso, double-click-to-roll should be the default.15:59
flanThere's already a button for zooming.15:59
flanAnd a button for always-on-top would be nice, since that one little thing could be a significant productivity plug over other OS's default (only) interfaces.16:00
flanOSes'?16:00
flanHow does one pluralize and make OS possessive?16:01
thorwilOSen's16:01
flanWorks for me.16:01
infosofthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvZkv7hUI&feature=player_embedded  :D16:04
infosoftTalking cat (for those who are bored to translate something :) ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94WcWy67Kfw&feature=player_embedded16:07
dakeranyone using Radiotray/Xchat ?16:13
nisshhnope16:13
nisshhirssi for me16:13
dakeri wrote a small plugin for xchat that display radiotray song16:14
dakersomething like this16:14
* daker is listening to Professor Green ft. Lily Allen - Just be good to green16:14
nisshhcool16:14
dakerhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/468045/16:52
jenkinsdutchie: did you solve the po4a bug?18:26
dutchiejenkins: no18:42
jenkinsdutchie: :(18:42
jenkinsany luck in #po4a?18:42
dutchienothing18:43
dutchieall that happened while you had left the room is dpm joined then left again18:44
jenkinso right thats good :P18:44
jenkinsgodbyk: do we have the command \textfeild in the manual? building lucid-e2 is erroring on it. I can't recall what we use instead18:48
jenkinspeople are not building before pushing bug fixes :(18:50
=== Zeike is now known as brandonj
godbykjenkins: yeah, \textfield (spelled correctly). :)18:51
jenkinsgodbyk: yea just worked out it was spelt wrong18:52
jenkinsfixed the build errors now18:52
jenkinsgodbyk: did you want to get lucid-e2 layout right before we updated the translations?18:53
jenkinsdutchie: I have a different error now18:53
godbykjenkins: once we're done fixing bugs, I'll probably go through and make sure the margin notes and other things are placed okay.18:54
jenkinsgodbyk: thats what i thought my only concern is we have it as the translation focus and it is way out of date18:54
jenkinsdutchie: http://paste.ubuntu.com/468113/18:55
godbykwhy is it translation focus?  lucid-e1 should still be the translation focus, I think.18:56
godbyk(e2 isn't in writing freeze yet)18:56
jenkinsI know ben set it a week ago.18:56
jenkinsand we have people translating it18:57
infosoftgodbyk: When will there be lucid-e2 writing freeze? P.S. Section about NetworkManager needs to be rewritten.18:57
jenkinsinfosoft: I added to the bug18:57
jenkins*it18:57
godbykinfosoft: I don't know. The only date that I'm aware of is that it's to be released 29 July.18:57
godbykBut even that was just an arbitrary date that was set eons ago.18:58
dakergodbyk, HELP!!19:04
infosoftdaker: Call 91119:04
godbykheh19:05
godbykwhat's up, daker?19:05
daker! I can't write on file `main.pdf'.19:05
daker(Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit; default file extension is `.pdf')19:05
dakerby runing $ fmtutil --all the first time it solved the problem19:07
dakerbut now it doesn't solve anything19:07
dutchiejenkins: put "% po4a: environment fullwidth" before the offending line19:11
godbykI've seen that error in this channel before, but don't know how we solved it.19:11
godbykI think we wiped out the whole directory and checked it out from scratch or something.19:11
dakerah i'll try19:12
godbykdutchie: yeah, there may be more commands and environments that we need to tell po4a about.19:12
godbykalso, I need to pull in some code from the lucid-e1 branch to bring the e2 branch up to speed (wrt translation stuff).19:13
jenkinsdutchie: that fixes it, I fixed the other bug by running make on the manual19:13
godbykoh, and I need to update the e2 makefile, I guess. :-)19:14
dutchiegodbyk: as long as it's not complaining, we're fine19:14
dutchiejenkins: oh, of course19:15
* dutchie notes that down19:16
dutchiegodbyk: have I asked before for a translations target?19:16
godbykdutchie: I don't recall.  What do you want 'make translations' to do?19:16
dutchie po4a -v --no-translations --copyright-holder "The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-name ubuntu-manual --package-version `bzr revno` po4a.conf19:17
jenkinsshall we set the translation focus to back to lucid-e119:17
dutchiegodbyk: that, but have the manual built first19:17
dutchieotherwise it dies19:17
jenkinsdutchie: should it not be po4a -v -MUTF-8 --no-translations --copyright-holder "The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-name ubuntu-manual --package-version `bzr revno` po4a.conf19:17
dutchieoh yes19:17
dutchieprobably need that in there too19:17
dutchiei hate unicode19:17
infosoftdutchie: UTF8 is one of the best things in my life :)19:18
infosoftYou shouldn't... hate it :|19:19
dutchieit's a real pain to deal with19:20
dutchiei don't really hate unicode, i hate the fact that there are multiple encodings and you have to deal with that19:21
infosoftIt's a lot better than ASCII. Multiple unicode encodings? Do you mean UTF8 and UTF16?19:22
dutchiemultiple encodings at all19:22
dutchieiso-8859-x, ascii, ebcdic, utf-8, utf-1619:22
dutchiecan't we just all agree to use one and not care about it?19:22
godbykthat's what unicode is all about. :)19:23
infosoftI agree with that. UTF8 is the best :D19:23
dutchiebut not everyone uses it yet, so there are headaches19:23
dutchielike the -MUTF-819:23
infosoftThere are headaches when someone uses UTF8 with BOM (especially in programming; because of BOM some applications doesn't work)19:24
dutchieevery time i've written a program that has to deal with unicode, it's been a pain19:24
infosoftBOM is the source of all bad things.19:26
jenkinsunless anyone objects in the next 15 minutes I will change the translation focus back to lucid-e1, it seams silly to have people trying to do stuff that will change19:45
jenkinsdutchie: how do I go about updating lanchpad with the new po files?19:46
dutchiejust commit & push19:46
dutchieit should be set up right to auto-import19:47
jenkinsI thought it was on manual import as auto import messed things up19:47
dutchiedunno19:48
dutchiedon't remember19:48
jenkinsany idea what i do to make it import?19:48
jenkinsit appears to be on auto import going on https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+imports19:49
jenkinstwo minutes time translations back to lucid-e119:58
jenkinschanged the focus to lucid-e120:01
jenkinswhy on lucid-e1 is greek got 1390 untranslated strings? and german is not complete20:03
jenkinsneither is english ul20:03
jenkins*uk20:03
jenkinslaunchpad is bad :(20:04
dakerLauchpad is the Best Open source app20:05
jenkinsdutchie/ godbyk go to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+imports?start=0&batch=50 and look there are loads of imports that need review now. there were not a minute ago20:06
godbykjenkins: you better not have done anything to piss off the translators.. :-)20:06
jenkinsI hope not, I am trying not to I have been palying with lucid-e2 and changed the focus (which made sense)20:07
jenkinswhos an admin for the manual team?20:08
godbyklaunchpad's translation stuff is all mysterious and scary.20:08
zkriessejenkins: probably humphrey20:08
godbykI don't understand how it works, how it's *supposed* to work, etc.20:08
godbykit just breaks all the time and there seems to be nothing I can do about it.20:08
godbykjenkins: I can do some things. What do you need?20:09
jenkinsI agree godbyk I need someone who is an admin to look at the above page ^ and aprove everything to the right place20:09
godbykLooks like I can only mark things as Deleted, Needs Review, or Blocked.20:10
jenkinssame20:10
jenkinsdutchie: ^^20:10
godbykI think a *Launchpad* admin had to help us with this last time.20:10
godbykMaybe ask in #launchpad for some help?20:10
jenkinsmay be I am disliking launchpad and translations20:11
jenkinsgodbyk: both you and i are not admins but josh is20:12
jenkinshe should be able to do it20:12
godbykjenkins: ah.20:12
godbykjenkins: We should have them make us admins so we can break things, too. :-)20:14
jenkinswell only ben can make admins as he is the project owner20:14
dutchiehmmm20:14
godbykdutchie: fix it!  :)20:14
jenkinsdutchie: lanuchpad broke it :)20:15
dutchiei can only do deleted, needs review and blocked too20:15
dutchiecan someone else go and ask in #launchpad? i'm trying to create a virtual transport business in simutrans ;)20:15
* jenkins asks20:17
jenkinswhat other places can we use for translations? I don't like launchpad20:24
dakertransifex ?20:28
dutchiethe "write our own" idea has appeared once or twice20:30
jenkinsdo other projects have problems with translations in launchpad? or are we using it wrong?20:35
infosoftThere isn't much time left until Ubuntu 10.10 release. Will we be able to prepare lucid-e2? :)20:35
jenkinslucid is an lts so i guess we will release it later like canonical do with a new disk with all the updates20:36
c7pwhat happened with the bug contest ?21:17
godbyknot sure.  you'd have to ask humphreybc.21:26
c7pok21:26
c7pbtw i have to say that the Greek community is very excited about the manual and thanks all of it's contributors21:27
godbykcool. glad to hear it!21:28
c7pgodbyk what will we do with the mail notification ?21:29
godbykwell, I can send out the email if you want to write something.21:30
c7pok i can right a small text21:31
c7pwill it be sth like Dear reader, etcc21:32
c7por Dear $name, $name=variable for name ?21:33
c7pgodbyk: ping22:07
godbykc7p: pong22:09
c7pcan i write in the message our ML's address so if someone wants to contribute to the project send a mail there ?22:10
jenkinsgodbyk: / dutchie can you take up the problem with https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+imports?start=0&batch=50 as I don't think I will have much time in the next few days22:10
godbykc7p: Sure!22:11
godbykjenkins: I think the last time I talked to the launchpad guys they had to do something, but I don't recall what.22:12
dutchiejenkins: did you get a reply from #launchpad?22:12
jenkinsnope I did not get a reply22:12
dutchieirc is so reliable and efficient :)22:12
jenkinslol, not sure how long i was on I am so busy at  the moment22:13
c7pdo you have to be subscribed to ML so you can send a mail to it or not ?22:14
dutchieit ends up in the moderation queue if you're not subscribed22:14
c7pwhich means ?22:15
dutchieit will end up being sent22:16
jenkinsone of the moderators has to aprove it first22:16
c7pok cool then thx22:16
c7pgodbyk: i send you the prototype mail, you can send it to dear readers :P22:28
godbykc7p: yep!22:56
c7pnice22:56
godbykc7p: What should the subject line be?23:10
c7pΤο εγχειρίδιο "Ξεκινώντας με το Ubuntu 10.04" είναι πλέον διαθέσιμο23:11
c7pis it to long ?23:11
godbykworks for me23:14
c7pok23:17
godbykc7p: I've sent the email.23:28
godbykWe'll see what happens. :)23:28
c7pgreat job23:28
c7pit works23:29
c7pa friend of mine received the mail23:30
godbykGood!23:30
dakerdebian's website is really VERY POOR23:32
c7pnight all23:50
dakergood night c7p23:51
c7pty23:52

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