mwhudsonlifeless: in transit?05:46
lifelessmwhudson: den haag, GNU Hackers Meeting05:47
mwhudsonlifeless: o right05:47
mwhudsonlifeless: have you considered xapian for searching btw?05:48
lifelessgmane use it05:49
lifelessbut it has almost zero buzz on internet scale sites05:49
lifelessnext-rollout instructions are on the main deployments page, right ?05:56
lifelessmwhudson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/librarian/+merge/3088006:17
lifelessmwhudson: what happens when lazr encounters a new, unknown key?06:26
mwhudsonlifeless: i'd have to experiment to be sure06:26
* lifeless experiments06:27
lifelessah yes, it suicides06:27
* lifeless doesn't understand this choking-consistency approach06:27
lifelessmwhudson: think I could convince you to click on 'approve' twice ?06:28
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
james_wlifeless: hi, could I get your vote on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/devel/+merge/30887 I'm having trouble submitting it the manual way.10:55
nigelb\o/ installing vm for playing around with LP!10:56
lifelessnigelb: cool10:56
nigelbI wonder if there are some low hanging bugs I could take a look at to figure out how to start.10:56
lifelessjames_w: we should make that easier!10:56
james_wlifeless: we should10:57
lifelessnigelb: well, like with most projects thare a lots of bits around10:57
lifelessnigelb: I suggest, pick up something you're interested in, and follow your nose / ask for help dig in etc10:57
nigelblifeless: hm I'll wait for things to be set up so I can play around10:58
brycehnigelb, fwiw, I found the easiest things to work on were changing text in templates10:59
brycehfind an error in the UI, grep source code to find where it appears, fix, fix tests, go10:59
nigelbahhh, like the bug I reported and you fixed.10:59
nigelbI should hunt around around for something like that then10:59
brycehnigelb, yeppers10:59
lifelesspoolie: whats the MP url?11:06
lifelesskicked off11:07
pooliewhat did you type?11:08
poolieec2 test -b for me gives a weird misparsed url11:08
lifelessrobertc@lifeless-64:~/source/canonical/launchpad-repo/devel$ PYTHONPATH=lib python utilities/ec2 land https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/flags/+merge/3058111:08
pooliespecifically two urls string joined together11:08
pooliewhen i tested it i got some failures in codehosting, and i'm pretty sure i didn't break them11:09
pooliehow does that work with ec2test?11:09
lifelessI think ec2test merges trunk11:09
poolieyou have to keep merging trunk until other people's branches are fixed?11:09
poolieoh right, it does11:09
pooliein this case i want it to merge db-devel, but i guess it can get that from the mp11:09
lifelesshttps://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/one_box_per_builder will show you if we're recently broken on trunk etc11:10
lifelesspoolie: http://ec2-204-236-213-119.compute-1.amazonaws.com/current_test.log should let you track it in tribunal11:13
pooliethanks, i'll have a poke at ec2 test11:13
pooliefor the snags i hit11:14
pooliei just didn't want to leave thi stalled any longer11:14
lifelessI'm glad :)11:14
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
poolielifeless, you should paste that email onto the blog11:17
lifelesswhich one ?11:18
lifelesspoolie: ^11:20
lifelesspoolie: which email!11:22
pooliearchitecture overview11:22
poolies//architecture reviewe process/11:22
lifelesshmmm, do you think users will be that interested ?11:22
pooliearchitecture overview review process methodology definition process11:22
lifelessperhaps I'll put it on my blog11:23
lifelessthat should get the developer orientated types pretty effectively11:23
poolieup to you11:24
pooliei think it will be interesting to users on the edge of being developers11:24
poolieat the moment the lp blog is a bit blah and i'd like to see it built up into something more attractive11:24
lifelessits kindof there to be there11:25
lifelessif you know what I mena11:25
lifelessI think the shorter iteration cycle will help a lot11:25
lifelessrather than splat per month11:25
lifelesssplat per day11:25
poolieistm you are wearing the TA hat for that post11:27
poolierather than the rbtc hat11:27
lifelessI'll think on it.11:28
lifelessI don't believe in role-blogs as a concept11:28
lifelesspeople and roles are not partitionable like that11:28
lifelessI like the blog for communicating with the LP community as a thing11:29
lifelessfor widespread stuff, its great; its like11:29
lifelesslp-dev list subset of lp-users list subset of actual lp-users subset of folk interested in lp11:29
lifelessand the blog is pretty far reaching11:29
lifeless(I know they aren't strict subsets, its an analogy)11:30
poolieah thanks for the buildbot link11:32
poolieinteresting to see the build of their bzr integration there11:32
poolielifeless, did that vm fail? the url doesn't work11:41
lifelessec2test probably only opened my ip11:41
lifelessits up to lp.archiveuploader.tests.test_uploadprocessor.TestUploadProcessor.testOrderFilenames11:41
pooliejml! :)11:42
lifelessjml: your diff is empty11:43
jmllifeless, *your* diff is empty11:43
lifelessjml: did thoust push ?11:43
jmllifeless, I did!11:43
jmlshould be good now.11:44
lifelessjml: up for reviewing my librarian branch ?11:44
jmllifeless, no, sorry.11:44
lifelessjml: adds oops logging to it11:44
lifelessah well :(11:44
jmllifeless, maybe once I've emptied my physical in-tray11:44
lifelessjml: that would be nice; I would like to kick it off within 22 hours or so11:45
jmllifeless, ok. I'll make a note.11:45
=== NCommander is now known as NC|Alaska
lifelesspoolie: fyi https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/60796013:32
_mup_Bug #607960: timeouts on Distribution:+bugs doing searches <fti> <search> <timeout> <Launchpad Bugs:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/607960>13:32
jelmer'morning mwhudson21:39
jelmermwhudson: do you have any experience with threads in C Python?21:40
mwhudsonjelmer: only a little21:42
thumperI'm heading off for a dentist appt shortly22:11
jelmermwhudson: I'm trying to use pythread.h for a C worker thread without having to rely on pthreads, but I can find much documentation about the API.22:17
mwhudsonjelmer: i guess the headers and the source are probably the most reliable documentation anyway :/22:21
lifelesswhat week is it ?23:15
wgrantI suspect week 2.23:19
jelmerI think week 323:19
wgrantOr at least I hope so.23:19
jelmerrollout was on the 6th of july23:19
wgrantThe Epic was week 0.23:19
jelmerah, ok - week 2 then indeed23:19
* wgrant consults the calendar.23:19
wgranthttps://dev.launchpad.net/Releases/2010Calendar says week 2.23:20
=== jelmer changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: Launchpad Development Channel | Week 2 of 10.08 | PQM is open | https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Get the code: https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting | On-call review in irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-reviews | Use http://paste.ubuntu.com/ for pastes
=== lifeless changed the topic of #launchpad-dev to: Launchpad Development Channel | Week 2 of 10.08 | firefighting: buildbot slaves are down | PQM is open | https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Get the code: https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting | On-call review in irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-reviews | Use http://paste.ubuntu.com/ for pastes
mwhudsonlifeless: re https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/malone/+merge/30904, it seems mostly reasonably23:21
mwhudsonlifeless: have you talked to the bugs developers about this?23:22
lifelessI mean - the tests and code are pretty clear.23:22
mwhudsonjust wondering really23:22
lifelessI think we're a bit too siloed at the moment, really.23:22
lifelessbut maybe thats just me.23:22
mwhudsonyeah probably23:22
* mwhudson attempts to articulate more clearly23:23
lifelessmwhudson: while you're around23:23
lifelessperhaps you could review by librarian oops branch23:23
mwhudsonlifeless: have you thought about ways to detect if this change will reduce the usefulness of the dup search?23:23
lifelessmwhudson: yes, and - I'm sure it will, to a point.23:23
lifelessmwhudson: the bugs devs that aren't on leave have all expressed their desire for and rather than or, FWIW23:24
lifelessfor terms and tags and so on23:24
mwhudsonok cool23:24
lifelessI think though, that as far as dup detection goes, we'll find that we end up with a cluster of dups that indirect to a sane master23:24
lifelessso we'll get a bit more chaff up front to seed it, and then it will be better than it is today.23:25
lifelessfingers crossed.23:25
mwhudsonlifeless: i guess what would have made me really happy to review this would be some evidence of pre-implementation discussion in the mp23:25
lifelessmwhudson: I intend to bring up pre-impl as a misfeature of process23:25
lifelessit was instituted to fix a bug we've now fixed other ways.23:25
mwhudsonlifeless: maybe23:26
lifelessI think its great, and important, to socialise changes, but pre-impl doesn't do that.23:26
mwhudsoni don't mean pre-imp in a formal sense i guess23:26
lifelessthis particular change has been discussed in detail with poolie as a teddy bear23:26
mwhudsoni just mean 'someone other than me things this is a good idea'23:26
lifelessvarious bugs folk on hte list23:27
lifelessa prelude-to-it with francis23:27
mwhudsonlifeless: ok, that's great23:27
mwhudsonlifeless: less back and forth if you'd said this in the mp though23:27
lifelessmwhudson: whats at the heart of wanting to know that someone other than you and I think its a good idea?23:27
lifelessmwhudson: I'm open to changing, but the bzr team doesn't have this friction, so the first thing I want to do is understand what it solves.23:28
mwhudsonlifeless: the thing here is that there's an element of a design decision here23:28
mwhudson'is this going to affect dup search quality'23:28
mwhudsonif it was just making tests more precise or whatever i wouldn't be quibbling23:29
lifelessmwhudson: go on23:29
mwhudsonor if it was in an area i'm more comfortable with23:29
mwhudsonlifeless: so it makes me more comfortable to hear there's been discussion about it23:31
mwhudsonthat's all23:31
lifelessmwhudson: ok; I worry there is something fishy at the bottom of this : a sort of fear of fixing things outside-ones-area, or something.23:32
wgrantIs that fishy at all?23:33
wgrantIt's not *good*, but it's the way the team is set up.23:34
lifelesswgrant: yes, we all need to own the stack we work with - top to bottom23:34
mwhudsonlifeless: where is your librarian oops branch?23:34
lifelesswgrant: its only slightly setup that way23:35
lifelesswgrant: it would be sad if unpaid coontributors felt safer and more able to hack on any part of the system than paid contributors. (Not saying mwhudson feels that way: we're exploring a fear *I* have after all)23:36
mwhudsonlifeless: approved both branches23:38
wgrantlifeless: I'm happy hacking anywhere, but I always check with a member of the relevant team. That team controls the code, I feel, so everything should go through them.23:38
mwhudsonlifeless: to go over my feelings a bit, i don't think it's area-related23:39
lifelesswgrant: this has kindof accreted23:39
mwhudsonlifeless: it's just that imho some changes require discussion23:39
mwhudsonand some don't23:39
mwhudsondiscussion in the direction sense23:39
lifelesswgrant: there are unmaintained areas which are kindof a side effect of partitioning. I dunno, its a theory.23:39
mwhudsonthis one did, and i wanted to make sure such discussion had happened23:40
wgrantlifeless: Are they really a side-effect of partitioning?23:40
wgrantI thought they were quite deliberately completely abandoned and left to rot.23:40
wgrantAnd by extension make Launchpad look bad.23:40
lifelesswgrant: har har har23:40
wgrantWell, maybe that last bit wasn't deliberate.23:40
lifelessmwhudson: mmm. This is perhaps a beer talk.23:40
lifelessmwhudson: In particular though, I don't want us to confuse 'high risk, needs mitigation' with 'changing an old decision'23:41
lifelessmwhudson: for the search, there is a single if block to totally reinstate the old (fails with timmeout 99% of time) behaviour23:42
lifelessmwhudson: so the change has the ability to be rolled back trivially23:42
wgrantlifeless: Fails with timeout 99% of the time *in some contexts*.23:42
wgrantIt's not completely broken.23:42
lifelesswgrant: thats true, its only 50% on launchpad itself.23:42
lifelessand 40% or so on bzr23:42
mwhudsonlifeless: i probably made this into a bigger deal than necessary by explaining myself poorly23:42
mwhudsonlifeless: it's monday morning :-)23:42
wgrantHm. I rarely see it time out on LP projects.23:42
lifelessmwhudson: :) sunday am now23:43
lifelesswgrant: turn off edge redirect.23:43
wgrantlifeless: Ah.23:43
lifelesswgrant: you're already running the first iteration of lifeless-tuning on this.23:43
lifelessmwhudson: sorry, I mean, monday am, sunday late evening.23:43
lifelessmwhudson: its not a big deal, its just a background task.23:44
mwhudsonlifeless: cool23:44
lifelessmwhudson: j'adore bzr culture, and I want to bring it into LP23:44
lifelessone of those things is to unblock *even on risky things* by finding ways to reduce the impact / reduce the time to recover23:44
mwhudsonlifeless: well ok, but i think the launchpad culture of talking about things before doing them is actually not a bad thing23:44
lifelessmwhudson: pros and cons23:44
lifelessmwhudson: I adore getting solid constraints and requirements and set based design23:45
lifelessmwhudson: for things of that scope23:45
lifelessmwhudson: for iterating, I think a simpler model works well. Anyhow, as I say - background task.23:45
* lifeless twiddles waiting for spm :P23:46
wgrantlifeless: When are you flying?23:54

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