| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === vorian is now known as stevie | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann | ||
| === ember_ is now known as ember | ||
| === doko_ is now known as doko | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| === doko_ is now known as doko | ||
| === kenvandine_ is now known as kenvandine | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch | ||
| === unimix_ is now known as unimix|work | ||
| kees | mdeslaur, sbeattie: starting! | 18:36 |
|---|---|---|
| mdeslaur | yes! | 18:36 |
| nxvl | \o/ | 18:36 |
| kees | nxvl: hola! | 18:36 |
| sbeattie | o/ | 18:37 |
| nxvl | hola! | 18:37 |
| kees | okay, so, this week, I'm going to try to flush my rally TODO list, and prepare for blackhat/defcon | 18:37 |
| kees | I'm on community | 18:37 |
| kees | that's about it from me. mdeslaur, you're up. | 18:38 |
| mdeslaur | I just published thunderbird, and will spend rest of day preparing laptop for blackhat | 18:38 |
| mdeslaur | that's about it | 18:39 |
| mdeslaur | next! | 18:39 |
| sbeattie | mdeslaur: it doestakea while for the cement you encase it in to cure. | 18:39 |
| mdeslaur | sbeattie: yeah :) let's just say it's a "clean" laptop :) | 18:39 |
| sbeattie | I hope to work through one or more USN publications this week, since I didn't finish it at the sprally. | 18:40 |
| nxvl | mdeslaur: oh, i got a spare HD | 18:40 |
| nxvl | mdeslaur: before DF i just swap disks | 18:40 |
| kees | sprally. *snicker* | 18:40 |
| nxvl | it easier | 18:41 |
| sbeattie | Also, since I did an appalling job of community effort last week, I'll take over triage while jdstrand is on vacation (and possibly blackhat) | 18:41 |
| kees | sbeattie: ah yeah, how is w3m coming? | 18:41 |
| kees | sbeattie: every time I tried to do CVE triage last week, mdeslaur had already done it. :) | 18:41 |
| sbeattie | kees: my schroots are missing debuild for some reason. | 18:41 |
| mdeslaur | kees: stop complaining :) | 18:42 |
| nxvl | btw, jamie told me he was going to publish FF 3.6.8 this week before BH IIRC | 18:42 |
| * jdstrand is here, but may drop | 18:42 | |
| sbeattie | so I'll dig back into it and see why they weren't installed. | 18:42 |
| sbeattie | that's about it for me. | 18:42 |
| sbeattie | have fun at blackhat! | 18:42 |
| mdeslaur | sbeattie: I don't have debuild in my schroots | 18:42 |
| mdeslaur | oh, nm...yes, they do | 18:43 |
| kees | mdeslaur: usually you do the "sbuild" from outside. | 18:43 |
| kees | er | 18:43 |
| kees | sbeattie: ^^ | 18:43 |
| kees | mdeslaur: I wasn't complaining. :) | 18:43 |
| kees | sbeattie: was umt not working after an "mk-sbuild"? | 18:43 |
| sbeattie | kees: um, dunno, then, umt build ad build-orig were failing complaining about it. | 18:43 |
| sbeattie | s/ad/and/ | 18:44 |
| kees | sbeattie: hunh. well, we can certain help debug. :) just let us know where we can help. | 18:44 |
| sbeattie | kees: sure thing. | 18:44 |
| jdstrand | shall I go while my connection is still here? | 18:44 |
| * sbeattie is also still recovering a little from my laptop drive swap. | 18:45 | |
| sbeattie | jdstrand: all yours. | 18:45 |
| jdstrand | cool | 18:45 |
| jdstrand | first off, sorry for being late | 18:45 |
| jdstrand | this week I am at blackhat | 18:45 |
| jdstrand | and on triage | 18:45 |
| jdstrand | I'm technically on holiday today and tomorrow, but did manage to publish the firefox update today | 18:46 |
| kees | heh. | 18:46 |
| * kees hugs jdstrand | 18:46 | |
| jdstrand | other than that, that's it | 18:46 |
| * jdstrand hugs kees back :) | 18:46 | |
| sbeattie | jdstrand: as I said, I'll cover triage for you. | 18:47 |
| jdstrand | oh, I missed that | 18:47 |
| jdstrand | sbeattie: rockin' :) | 18:47 |
| * jdstrand hugs sbeattie :) | 18:47 | |
| sbeattie | jdstrand: enjoy your days off! | 18:47 |
| jdstrand | \o/ | 18:48 |
| jdstrand | thanks :) | 18:48 |
| kees | jdstrand: have fun! :) | 18:48 |
| kees | okay, any other business for the security team? | 18:48 |
| === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha | ||
| Riddell | ** Kubuntu Meeting in a minute in #ubuntu-meeting | 19:59 |
| ScottK | o/ | 19:59 |
| shadeslayer | \o | 19:59 |
| apachelogger | hullos | 20:00 |
| padams | hey hey | 20:00 |
| * apachelogger swiftly needs to swap his system fonts | 20:00 | |
| shadeslayer | heheh | 20:00 |
| Riddell | neversfelde, apachelogger, rgreening, ScottK: council ping | 20:01 |
| ScottK | o/ | 20:01 |
| apachelogger | council pong | 20:01 |
| Riddell | good evening friends | 20:01 |
| Riddell | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings | 20:01 |
| Quintasan | \o/ | 20:01 |
| Riddell | anyone here for membership? | 20:01 |
| rgreening | hey | 20:02 |
| * Quintasan want kubuntu-dev, but after Neon is working | 20:02 | |
| j-b | are there rules somewhere for those kinds of meeting? | 20:02 |
| Riddell | kubuntu-dev needs talking to kubuntu-dev people, not so much a general meeting | 20:02 |
| shadeslayer | we need to get bzr-svn working before that ( for kdelibs ) | 20:02 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan: oh oh btw search for bzr-fastimport | 20:03 |
| shadeslayer | that might help us | 20:03 |
| txwikinger | 0/ | 20:03 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: just get in touch with someone from kubuntu-dev when you are ready | 20:03 |
| Riddell | j-b: we chat on the topics on the agenda and hopefully come to a conclusion (we can get the council to vote in cases of geniune split opinions) | 20:03 |
| cwickert | Riddell: I guess I am, but I haven't completed all the necessary steps yet | 20:03 |
| Riddell | cwickert: let us know if you manage that before the end of the meeting then :) | 20:03 |
| Riddell | first item is KDE PIM | 20:03 |
| padams | w00t | 20:03 |
| shadeslayer | my precious... | 20:04 |
| Riddell | at Akademy the PIM developers had mixed responses when I asked | 20:04 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think it's clear we should stay with 4.4 for Maverick. | 20:04 |
| Riddell | about whether we should ship 4.4 or 4.5 | 20:04 |
| Riddell | by the end of the week it become clearer that 4.4 would be the sensible thing to do | 20:04 |
| padams | cwickert: tell them about fedora 14 :) | 20:04 |
| Riddell | what's happening in fedora 14? | 20:04 |
| cwickert | Fedora will probably ship 4.4 too | 20:05 |
| apachelogger | are they merging with suse? :O | 20:05 |
| Riddell | the argument against 4.4 is that it's unmaintained | 20:05 |
| cwickert | which is a strong argument IMHO | 20:05 |
| Riddell | but if it works that's not a problem, and I think the delayed startup for akonadi problems we had in 4.4.2 have gone as far as I can tell | 20:05 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: btw im trying out the beta 1 packages, but they work fine for me, i wont say anything else.... | 20:05 |
| ScottK | Riddell: We're stuck with maintaining it for Lucid for 3 years, so having it in Maverick doesn't make it worse. | 20:05 |
| rgreening | KDE PIM + Kmail2 + Akonadi == FAIL for me | 20:06 |
| apachelogger | ScottK is absolutely right | 20:06 |
| Riddell | I've already updated the kde-l10n packages to use translations from PIM 4.4 | 20:06 |
| shadeslayer | maybe beta 2 will bring joy to the world? | 20:06 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: is he ever wrong? | 20:06 |
| apachelogger | didn't say that ^^ | 20:06 |
| ScottK | shadeslayer: It can do it for Maverick +1 then. | 20:06 |
| jtechidna | sorry, power outage | 20:07 |
| Riddell | now I suspect there are issues in our kdepim packages that should be fixed anyway | 20:07 |
| ScottK | I think it would be great if someone provides PPA packages for testing, but there's no indication it is or will be ready for production use. | 20:07 |
| === jtechidna is now known as JontheEchidna | ||
| shadeslayer | ScottK: but if we release kde 4.5.1 with maverick, why not new kdepim ? | 20:07 |
| Riddell | kleopatra and use of gnupg are things I'd like to have reviewed | 20:07 |
| ScottK | shadeslayer: Because it's not ready. | 20:07 |
| shadeslayer | ScottK: packages are already in kubuntu experimental ppa | 20:07 |
| Quintasan | ScottK++ | 20:08 |
| cwickert | ScottK: how do you define "ready"? | 20:08 |
| Quintasan | shadeslayer: we should make sure that anyone interested will know where they are | 20:08 |
| apachelogger | us not being the first to loose their head over it | 20:08 |
| ScottK | cwickert: Usable, stable, won't eat my data. | 20:08 |
| apachelogger | we had KDE 4.0 and got a beating, even though it was not even default | 20:09 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan: the site would be a BAD idea :P | 20:09 |
| Riddell | able to safely upgrade from previous versions is an important requirement for "ready" | 20:09 |
| ScottK | PIM is the one area where data loss hurts users the most and we should be conservative about it. | 20:09 |
| apachelogger | then we had KDEPim 4.4 as one of the first and got a beating for kaddressbook and akonadi | 20:09 |
| apachelogger | ... | 20:09 |
| apachelogger | :/ | 20:09 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Yes. That too. | 20:09 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: afaik no one had failures on lucid and i tested them out on maverick | 20:09 |
| Quintasan | well, fresh install here, works just fine | 20:09 |
| cwickert | ScottK: AFAIK it's not eating data anymore. we are running a many test systems with real life data | 20:09 |
| JontheEchidna | upstream is not defining it as "ready" as it is: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasma-desktophx9879 | 20:09 |
| Riddell | shadeslayer: rgreening just said he had fail | 20:09 |
| shadeslayer | rgreening: did the upgrades fail, or the app itself? | 20:10 |
| ScottK | cwickert: I think when it can meet the normal KDE release schedule that'll be a sign it's mature enough to consider. | 20:10 |
| rgreening | For me, on lucid that is, Kmail2 and Akonadi == 100% CPU and I cannot delete mail from my GMAIL IMAP. | 20:10 |
| rgreening | it takes forever to load the message and cant delete. it's unusable | 20:11 |
| JontheEchidna | for me, kmail2 + akonadi == akonadi-mysql taking up 100 MiB of memory while idle | 20:11 |
| ScottK | If it's too scary for Fedora, I'm reasonaly certain it's too scary for us. | 20:11 |
| apachelogger | ^^ | 20:11 |
| JontheEchidna | So it looks like pieces are already set in place for keeping 4.4 for maverick. l10n is taken care of and 4.5 is in the experimental PPA. I think we should motion to keep it this way | 20:12 |
| apachelogger | also, if a release would happen I suppose itwould be jolly close to our own release | 20:12 |
| ScottK | With 4.4, Kmail is usable on my netbook with 1GB RAM and an Atom CPU. It doesn't sound like that would work at all well with Kmail2. | 20:12 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: yes, since we're releasing at the start of october not the end | 20:12 |
| apachelogger | and history tells that this is never a good thing | 20:12 |
| cwickert | ScottK: the decision for Fedora is not set in stone yet | 20:12 |
| cwickert | ScottK: but Fedora has one month more until they release then Kubuntu | 20:13 |
| apachelogger | I think we agree that KDEPim 4.5 is no option for 10.10 | 20:13 |
| cwickert | s/then/than | 20:13 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger++ | 20:13 |
| apachelogger | should be revisited at next UDS if possible though | 20:13 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: I think so. | 20:13 |
| apachelogger | to lay out a migration plan | 20:13 |
| ScottK | I think we should definitely plan on it for 11.04 though. | 20:13 |
| * padams agrees | 20:14 | |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: +1 | 20:14 |
| apachelogger | aye | 20:14 |
| rgreening | I agree. it's way too critical to foo someones mail | 20:14 |
| Riddell | padams, cwickert: will kolabsys be wanting to review our packages in some way? and are there KDE PIM 3.5 packages we should care about? | 20:14 |
| cwickert | Riddell: yes there are packages | 20:14 |
| Riddell | ..but should we care? :) | 20:14 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think we should get the Kolab 3.5 packages in. | 20:15 |
| cwickert | Riddell: I think you should. I ready suggested to have the e3.5 client as an alternative a while back | 20:15 |
| padams | that's up to you… we can help provide 3.5 packages and we can help with the 4,5 effort because we would like to see 4,5 packages for lucid | 20:15 |
| Quintasan | If someone cares for 4.5 we have packages, right? So we can just tell them it can eat data but if users want to test it then go ahead | 20:15 |
| ScottK | padams: I think it we are interested in providing 4.5 packages for people that want them via PPA, just not in the main repository. | 20:16 |
| apachelogger | ack | 20:17 |
| ScottK | It would be good both for testing and for early adopters. | 20:17 |
| padams | ScottK: fine with me | 20:17 |
| cwickert | ScottK: how about 3.5 then? | 20:17 |
| Quintasan | shadeslayer: you were the one doing 4.5beta1 packages? | 20:17 |
| cwickert | should this be in the main repo or also in a ppa? | 20:17 |
| ScottK | I think 3.5 in Lucid is fine. | 20:17 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan: yep | 20:17 |
| shadeslayer | theyre in experimental ppa | 20:17 |
| Quintasan | great | 20:17 |
| ScottK | cwickert: We just need to make sure they are correctly "branded" as Kolab kdepim so people don't get confused. | 20:18 |
| padams | ScottK: or kdepim-ultra-old? | 20:18 |
| cwickert | ScottK: so how would you do that? | 20:18 |
| cwickert | kdepim-rock-stable | 20:18 |
| ScottK | In the package name and description. | 20:19 |
| ScottK | It should be easy enough, we just need to remember to do it. | 20:19 |
| Riddell | ScottK: in Lucid? as in backports? | 20:19 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Maverick and then Lucid Backports, yes. | 20:20 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think the key is to position them as part of the Kolab system, not part of the KDE system. Then users won't be confused. | 20:20 |
| Riddell | padams, cwickert: how can we get 3.5 packaging moving? | 20:20 |
| cwickert | Riddell: good question, I'm open to suggestions cause I don't know the (k)ubuntu workflow | 20:21 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think for the purposes of the meeting, we can agree we want them and I'll chat with cwickert later and sort out the details. | 20:22 |
| Riddell | cwickert: I'd suggest turning up on #kubuntu-devel and asking for people to review the packaging you have | 20:22 |
| cwickert | Riddell: ok | 20:22 |
| * Quintasan wants to try that | 20:22 | |
| ScottK | I think we've agreed on the following for Maverick and KDEpim: KDE 4.4 for Maverick, Kmail2/4.5 in PPA, and KDE3.5 PIM packages for Kolab. | 20:22 |
| ScottK | Any objections to that? | 20:23 |
| apachelogger | cwickert: you make a package, show it to us, we will tell you that it is crap, you come with a new package, we will love it and then one who has appropriate permissions will upload ;) | 20:23 |
| apachelogger | something like that in any case ;) | 20:23 |
| JontheEchidna | ScottK: none here | 20:23 |
| apachelogger | no objections | 20:23 |
| Riddell | ack on that | 20:23 |
| Riddell | as I said before we should look at the gnupg and kleopatra packaging for 4.4 | 20:24 |
| cwickert | apachelogger: sounds good, but can we please skip the first step? ;) | 20:24 |
| Riddell | padams, cwickert: at the distro sprint last week the server team people suggested you turn up at a server team meeting sometime soon to look at the kolab server bits | 20:24 |
| apachelogger | cwickert: awww, less fun for us :P ... but I suppose we can live without it ;) | 20:24 |
| Riddell | their meetings happen on Tuesdays, not sure the time | 20:24 |
| ScottK | I'll help them out with that. | 20:25 |
| cwickert | apachelogger: you could have a look at http://files.kolab.org/apt/ubuntu/dists/karmic/kdepim-e35-extras/source/ | 20:25 |
| Riddell | August 12th | 20:25 |
| Riddell | FeatureFreeze | 20:25 |
| Riddell | that's the date to remember :) | 20:25 |
| Riddell | groovy, moving on? | 20:25 |
| apachelogger | uhh, the return of arts ^^ | 20:25 |
| cwickert | Riddell: please drop us a note when you are going to talk about kolab | 20:25 |
| ScottK | cwickert: Will do. I'd like to get the cyrus patches in first. | 20:26 |
| shadeslayer | btw a patch in kdepim beta 1 needs fixing | 20:26 |
| shadeslayer | if anyone is up for it :D | 20:27 |
| ScottK | cwickert: We've totally removed arts from the distro. It would be super helpful if we could work around needing it again. | 20:27 |
| * apachelogger assigns the task to shadeslayer | 20:27 | |
| padams | ScottK: patches coming your way soon | 20:27 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: heh :P | 20:27 |
| ScottK | Excellent. | 20:27 |
| apachelogger | oh, no arts :( | 20:27 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: i fail at refreshing patches | 20:27 |
| cwickert | ScottK: yeah, lets try to avoid arts... | 20:27 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: something to learn then | 20:27 |
| apachelogger | so | 20:27 |
| apachelogger | shall we move on? | 20:27 |
| Riddell | Video Player? | 20:27 |
| * apachelogger pokes j-b | 20:27 | |
| * j-b pokes back | 20:28 | |
| Riddell | Kaffeine doesn't seem ready | 20:28 |
| ScottK | Agreed. | 20:28 |
| Quintasan | +1 | 20:28 |
| Riddell | personally I'd like to avoid adding another media framework | 20:28 |
| Riddell | and I'd like to have a nice KDE UI | 20:28 |
| Riddell | which leads back to Dragon | 20:28 |
| Quintasan | I would vote in favour in SMPlayer but that seems impossible due to CD space and licensing reasons, I'm I right? | 20:28 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: also it looks like ewww :P | 20:28 |
| apachelogger | so | 20:28 |
| apachelogger | I propose vlc | 20:29 |
| apachelogger | because | 20:29 |
| JontheEchidna | Quintasan: licensing has made any mplayer-based solution impossible | 20:29 |
| shadeslayer | vlc+1 | 20:29 |
| apachelogger | the nice people at amarok are pushing phonon-vlc and call it the next-gen phonon backend | 20:29 |
| shadeslayer | also like i pointed out earlier, anyone migrating from windows will have a easy time with it | 20:29 |
| Riddell | SMPlayer has a semi-KDEish UI but it's not great and not dl loading avcodecs means it's out | 20:29 |
| apachelogger | so, if they are right we will end up with libvlc in the long run | 20:29 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: SMPlayer look eww? If you didn't even bother to look at the options then :3 | 20:29 |
| ScottK | What's compelling enough about VLC to make it worth switching now and maybe switching to Kaffeine in 11.04? | 20:29 |
| apachelogger | I am quite sure j-b can reason why vlc would be a good choice | 20:30 |
| Riddell | phonon-vlc didn't work too well when I tried it, although I see a new release has just been made | 20:30 |
| shadeslayer | ScottK: id rather bangarang than kaffeine | 20:30 |
| j-b | well, vlc might be a good choice, because it is plugin-based, as GStreamer, which makes it easier to distribute in parts | 20:30 |
| ScottK | shadeslayer: Kaffeine/some other choice | 20:30 |
| j-b | but I guess CD size is annoying for you. | 20:31 |
| Riddell | vlc's player UI is not pretty at all in my opinion | 20:31 |
| * apachelogger agrees with Riddell | 20:31 | |
| apachelogger | OTOH millions of windows users use it | 20:31 |
| Riddell | it also needs some packaging and MIR love to get vlc into main and it's getting a bit late in the cycle for that | 20:31 |
| apachelogger | so vlc could very well be a selling reason | 20:31 |
| Quintasan | j-b: I have one question about the VLC, Are the problems with mkv files crashing VLC solved? | 20:32 |
| j-b | Quintasan: yes. | 20:32 |
| j-b | Quintasan: crashing wasn't a vlc problem but a libebml one, that is fixed in libebml 1.0.x | 20:32 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: how about dragon for 10.10 and vlc as prospective target for 11.04? | 20:32 |
| Riddell | the advantages of Kaffeine are DVB support and subtitles, j-b how does vlc manage with those? | 20:32 |
| apachelogger | supposedly phonon-vlc is also more mature by then | 20:32 |
| j-b | Sorry to be rude guys, but what is so difficult in actually coding a correct phonon player? | 20:33 |
| shadeslayer | also phonon-vlc currently crashes for me on maverick | 20:33 |
| j-b | shadeslayer: stacktraces are welcome. | 20:33 |
| shadeslayer | so whenever i quit a app, i get that foobar app has crashed | 20:33 |
| shadeslayer | j-b: on bugs.kde.org ? | 20:33 |
| Riddell | j-b: dragon is a correct phonon player, for some reason kaffeine isn't using phonon which is what leads it to have problems | 20:33 |
| apachelogger | j-b: it is more the maintaining than the coding IMHO | 20:33 |
| apachelogger | dragon was also maintainerless for quite some time | 20:34 |
| j-b | shadeslayer: I believe I fixed that bug in latest release, but yes, bugs.kde.org | 20:34 |
| Quintasan | Riddell: I do not think subtitles are a problem, I have many Matroska files (with SSA subs inside), and VLC had problems with them, but now it is all fixed | 20:34 |
| Quintasan | Problems == crashing | 20:34 |
| shadeslayer | j-b: ok which is the latest release again ? :D | 20:34 |
| j-b | shadeslayer: we have 2 students working on improving phonon and phonon-vlc | 20:34 |
| Riddell | j-b: does vlc talk to pulseaudio properly? | 20:34 |
| j-b | shadeslayer: 0.2.0 | 20:34 |
| txwikinger | why are we planning to change every release? | 20:34 |
| j-b | Riddell: properly, as in "as well as gstreamer", no. But better than mplayer, yes. | 20:34 |
| shadeslayer | seems that needs packaging | 20:34 |
| Quintasan | txwikinger: because it seems that Dragon Player was ultimate failure? | 20:35 |
| j-b | 21:33 < apachelogger> j-b: it is more the maintaining than the coding IMHO | 20:35 |
| j-b | apachelogger: come on... | 20:35 |
| Quintasan | at least that's what I heard | 20:35 |
| Riddell | Dragon Player is fine, nothing failure about it, just a bit limited | 20:35 |
| * txwikinger thinks it is very confusing for users if the packages change every release | 20:35 | |
| j-b | Riddell: DVB, yes. Subs, of course | 20:35 |
| * apachelogger agrees with txwikinger | 20:35 | |
| * ryanakca agress with txwikinger too | 20:35 | |
| Riddell | j-b: I don't suppose there are any plans to make the vlc UI pretty and using oxygen icons? | 20:36 |
| j-b | Riddell: ask what you need, and you will get it. | 20:36 |
| j-b | Riddell: it is as simple as that. | 20:36 |
| Riddell | now there's service :) | 20:36 |
| j-b | oxygen icons, is like 20 LoC | 20:36 |
| apachelogger | mhhh, that is servie a la quassel | 20:36 |
| * apachelogger lieks that :D | 20:36 | |
| j-b | Riddell: seriously, I don't care if VLC gets inside Kubuntu, or not, that is not my choice and I am biaised. But if you need things, just ask. | 20:37 |
| j-b | and my opinion, as a KDE user is that you need a proper phonon player | 20:37 |
| Riddell | j-b: which would count out the vlc UI? | 20:38 |
| j-b | Riddell: I don't understand the question, sorry. | 20:38 |
| Riddell | j-b: vlc's UI isn't a phonon player | 20:39 |
| j-b | and won't. | 20:39 |
| Riddell | dragon is the only one I know of | 20:39 |
| apachelogger | there are a couple of others on qt-apps IIRC | 20:39 |
| j-b | Riddell: Kaffeine? banganrang? | 20:39 |
| apachelogger | nothing terribly awesome though | 20:39 |
| ScottK | It sounds to me like we ought to stay with Dragon for now and take another look for Maverick +1. | 20:39 |
| apachelogger | oh yeah, bangarang is also there :D | 20:39 |
| Riddell | Kaffeine is hard coded to xine | 20:39 |
| apachelogger | j-b: kaffeine uses xine directly | 20:40 |
| Riddell | isn't banganrang music focused? | 20:40 |
| j-b | WHHHHHHHHHAT? | 20:40 |
| j-b | OMG, not xine... | 20:40 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: no, collection focused if anything | 20:40 |
| shadeslayer | rgreening: no.. its good for video as well | 20:40 |
| shadeslayer | brr | 20:40 |
| * apachelogger hands j-b a cookie to calm him down ^^ | 20:40 | |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: ^^ | 20:40 |
| Riddell | "Beside all the nice improvements Kaffeine is (again) directly using xine-lib instead of Phonon. " http://kaffeine.kde.org/ | 20:40 |
| apachelogger | Well. | 20:40 |
| Riddell | which is why it doesn't work with my USB headphones | 20:41 |
| apachelogger | Since I agree with txwikinger who is not amused about changing apps over and over again. | 20:41 |
| apachelogger | I say we stay with dragon for 10.10 | 20:41 |
| Riddell | yes | 20:41 |
| apachelogger | and look at this issue proper | 20:41 |
| kstar | Sorry to butt into a meeting with an offtopic message, but just wanted to thank all of you for making such a rocking distribution. | 20:41 |
| apachelogger | to either improve dragon towards become awsomest | 20:41 |
| shadeslayer | well.. i think vlc for maverick+1 | 20:41 |
| apachelogger | or consider vlc for 11.04 | 20:41 |
| Adityab | vlc++ | 20:41 |
| j-b | apachelogger: recoding an actual phonon player isn't difficult, IMVHO | 20:42 |
| ScottK | Any objections to Dragon for Maverick and consider it again at UDS for Maverick +1. | 20:42 |
| Riddell | I think that's agreed | 20:42 |
| ScottK | Shall we move on then? | 20:42 |
| apachelogger | aye | 20:42 |
| Riddell | message indicator is the next topic | 20:42 |
| kstar | VLC is a good thing because Windows folk use VLC. | 20:42 |
| apachelogger | j-b: the only time I ever looked at phonon was to play a video for a hoax application :) | 20:43 |
| j-b | Mac people the same :) | 20:43 |
| apachelogger | maybe I should look at it again | 20:43 |
| apachelogger | j-b: well, thanks for attending :) | 20:43 |
| j-b | apachelogger: no pb | 20:43 |
| j-b | please, guys, if you need modifications to VLC or phonon-vlc, just _ask_ | 20:43 |
| j-b | seriously | 20:43 |
| maco | i thought mac & windows people used whatever was default in their OSes...which definitely isnt vlc | 20:44 |
| highvoltage | <3 VLC! (just had to chime in) | 20:44 |
| ScottK | I think for M-I, the proposal is on by default for Quassel and Kopete, but not Kmail and no systray icons for Quassel or Kopete. | 20:44 |
| j-b | maco: believe me, linux is the smallest of our OSes | 20:44 |
| apachelogger | maco: they have tech friends who install VLC along with Firefox | 20:44 |
| Riddell | message indicator has had some improvements since we last discussed it and I think we should have it used by default in maverick | 20:44 |
| apachelogger | why is message indiciator not used by upstream? | 20:44 |
| Riddell | which upstream? | 20:45 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: All the patches are upstream. | 20:45 |
| apachelogger | well | 20:45 |
| Riddell | it is in Quassel and kmail and kopete upstream | 20:45 |
| apachelogger | active by default | 20:45 |
| ScottK | Since it's extragear, I don't think it can be active by default for Kmail/Kopete | 20:46 |
| apachelogger | using message indicator would be a pretty grave change to how that sort of stuff appears in the KDE workspace isnt it? | 20:46 |
| Riddell | but the plasmoid itself isn't in because aseigo wants it implementing using the status notifier protocol, trouble is nobody knows how you can squash what MI needs into that protocol | 20:46 |
| Riddell | ScottK: agateau and me discussed some ideas for KMail, it probably needs a whole config dialogue page to itself since how you need it to work depends on how you use your e-mail | 20:47 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: We've provided the MI widget by default for a few cycles now. I don't think some enabling would be a grave change. | 20:47 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Makes sense. I think that should be Maverick +1. | 20:47 |
| Riddell | yes | 20:47 |
| ScottK | No point in doing all that for Kmail right before we switch to Kmail2. | 20:47 |
| Riddell | also relevant kwwii said he could probably do a new icon for maverick | 20:48 |
| apachelogger | but enabling it changes how kopete/kmail/quassel notifications are displayed? | 20:48 |
| Riddell | the current star isn't too noticable (although that could be a feature for some people) and it doesn't quite fit in with the new systray icons theme | 20:48 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: by not cluttering your systray | 20:49 |
| Riddell | which is a win for me | 20:49 |
| apachelogger | well, if upstream likes us to enable it I am all for it | 20:50 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: It doesn't affect notifications, only systray. | 20:50 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: so you still get notifications? | 20:50 |
| ScottK | Yes | 20:50 |
| Riddell | yes the VisualNotifications wouldn't change | 20:50 |
| Quintasan | That quite defeats the point of MI IMO | 20:50 |
| ScottK | Quintasan: You can turn them off if you want. | 20:50 |
| apachelogger | hm | 20:50 |
| ScottK | (at least for quassel) | 20:50 |
| apachelogger | ahhhh, but the tray icons would be gone? | 20:51 |
| ScottK | Yes | 20:51 |
| Riddell | yes, pointless tray icons won't be missed by me | 20:51 |
| ScottK | You could put it back if you wanted. | 20:51 |
| maco | oh a less cluttered tray? i like that | 20:51 |
| apachelogger | isnt that what the tray redesign + kstatusnotifier is supposed to archive? :P | 20:51 |
| apachelogger | well, I think we should go with it and advertise it | 20:52 |
| Riddell | and make sure upstreams are aware and don't object of course | 20:52 |
| apachelogger | if people start complaingin soon enough we should revert though | 20:52 |
| apachelogger | for the sake of not angering the users with every release | 20:53 |
| ScottK | There's a checkbox to re-enable the systray icon for kopete too. | 20:53 |
| Riddell | next item? | 20:53 |
| Riddell | Ubuntu font | 20:53 |
| ScottK | What's to discuss about it? | 20:53 |
| Riddell | whether we want it on by default | 20:54 |
| Riddell | although the Ubuntu Desktop team don't know it yet, they're going to have it included at some point soonish | 20:54 |
| Adityab | font++ | 20:54 |
| Riddell | I think all kubuntu members have access to try it out | 20:54 |
| ScottK | Yes. | 20:54 |
| apachelogger | The font handles umlauts quite terribly | 20:54 |
| * ScottK thought the Ubuntu font was the font for the Ubuntu logo. | 20:54 | |
| apachelogger | I pointed out some of the immediately visible things earlier in kubuntu-devel | 20:55 |
| * ScottK didn't realize it was something for the actual system. | 20:55 | |
| Quintasan | and it looks quite awful on my 23" display | 20:55 |
| Quintasan | too thin | 20:55 |
| Riddell | ScottK: it's for the whole system font | 20:55 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Yes. I've just learned this. | 20:55 |
| Riddell | it takes a little getting used to but I find it makes my desktop more interesting without being distracting | 20:55 |
| JontheEchidna | I enjoy the font as well | 20:55 |
| Riddell | nuno also likes it, not as much as liberation but more so than dejavu | 20:55 |
| apachelogger | dejavu is utter crap I may say so | 20:55 |
| ScottK | Do currently match upstream on font or are we already different? | 20:56 |
| apachelogger | I am also more for liberation | 20:56 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: they are taking feedback about the font, so I would suggest that you report the umlaut issues as a bug | 20:56 |
| Riddell | upstream has no font, it's an X issue | 20:56 |
| shadeslayer | oh font | 20:56 |
| ScottK | Ah. | 20:56 |
| shadeslayer | ubuntu font ++ | 20:56 |
| shadeslayer | along with autohinting | 20:56 |
| apachelogger | also liberation is more established and since the font is only supposed to go into public beta on 8th august or so... | 20:56 |
| ScottK | It sounds to me like it's premature to make a decision. | 20:56 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: upstream == nuno == liberation | droid | 20:57 |
| txwikinger | isn't it quite simple to change the default font anyway? | 20:57 |
| apachelogger | with which I agreee entirely | 20:57 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: +1 | 20:57 |
| Riddell | I think it would be a nice bit of cross-Ubuntu-variant cohesiveness to use it | 20:57 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I'd propose we revist after it's public. | 20:57 |
| * apachelogger would postpone to UDS actually | 20:57 | |
| apachelogger | discuss this at larger scale | 20:58 |
| Quintasan | Does anyone know how the asian symbols look in Dejavu fonts? | 20:58 |
| JontheEchidna | UDS is after release though | 20:58 |
| JontheEchidna | way too late | 20:58 |
| Riddell | it is public now, you can share it as you want so long as it's obvious it's a beta, it just isn't freely licenced yet | 20:58 |
| ScottK | or not | 20:58 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I guess that's the other thing, I'm not comfortable with deciding for it until the license terms are finalized. | 20:58 |
| apachelogger | I am highly against changing the default font this late.... | 20:59 |
| apachelogger | and until it is public it is getting even later... | 20:59 |
| Quintasan | One question, did anyone actually complain about the font being bad? | 20:59 |
| Riddell | ScottK: as a free software zealot I'm not going to touch it if the licence turns out not to be free, but I don't think that'll happen | 20:59 |
| JontheEchidna | this late? we're not even at the third alpha, and we were considering changing font at RC last cycle | 20:59 |
| apachelogger | und then it will be too late when suddently it turns out that something is horribly broken... | 20:59 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I don't think it will happen either, but I think we should accept it after, not before. | 20:59 |
| * Mamarok doesn't liek the Ubuntu font | 21:00 | |
| ScottK | Considering it's easy to switch defaults, I'm not overly concerned about deciding this up to beta. | 21:00 |
| Mamarok | like* | 21:00 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: that font was not beta though | 21:00 |
| apachelogger | in fact that font was around for years | 21:00 |
| JontheEchidna | and it won't be once its released | 21:00 |
| JontheEchidna | and defaults are easy enough to change if there is a problem, as Scott noted | 21:01 |
| Riddell | ScottK: it's mostly a problem for docs, not sure when they would want a decision by | 21:01 |
| Riddell | a new version with bold is expected this week | 21:01 |
| Riddell | let's check with our docs people when they need a decision and make sure we do decide before then | 21:02 |
| ScottK | User interface freeze and beta freeze are the same day | 21:03 |
| ScottK | So I think it's fine to wait. | 21:03 |
| apachelogger | would we be using it for anything but menus? | 21:03 |
| apachelogger | like actual text? (say browser) | 21:04 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: fiddly to only make it apply to menus, I'd expect everything but fixed width fonts | 21:04 |
| Riddell | (because that won't be done in time as I understand it) | 21:04 |
| Riddell | I also had "rekonq defaults" on the agenda, although it seems less important given we don't know if rekonq will be supported for Qt 4.7/KDE Platform 4.5 | 21:05 |
| * apachelogger says -1 then because he finds the font very horrible for floating text - besides currently being essentially broken with umlauts | 21:05 | |
| Riddell | I need to contact the rekonq developers and get an answer on that | 21:05 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: a poke on rekonq@kde.org? :) | 21:06 |
| Riddell | the agenda item was about removing all bookmarks from rekonq by default, settings homepage to google.com and setting default webpages to | 21:06 |
| Riddell | + <default>http://www.google.com,http://userbase.kde.org,http://www.kubuntu.org,http://www.kubuntuforums.net</default> | 21:06 |
| Riddell | it's not ideal to hard code in google.com, would be better to use searchproviders somehow but I don't think that's possible | 21:07 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think it's pretty clear rekonq is unsuitable for default. | 21:08 |
| apachelogger | ack | 21:08 |
| ScottK | I'd thought we were going to discuss switching away from it. | 21:08 |
| * Quintasan votes in favour of Konq and option of installing kpart-webkit | 21:08 | |
| ScottK | Arora is better, but still crashy on flash stuff. | 21:09 |
| txwikinger | konq is really lacking a lot of important features | 21:09 |
| Riddell | ScottK: rekonq 0.5 is far too crashy but 1.0 is due out before maverick and maybe they'll support qt 4.7 with that, needs asking anyway | 21:09 |
| ScottK | Riddell: When is it due? | 21:09 |
| apachelogger | I would like to bring up trying konq + kwebkitpart for one release since it performs a lot better in the reliability | 21:10 |
| ScottK | We're running out of time "before Maverick". | 21:10 |
| Riddell | ScottK: they have said they can do it to our schedule | 21:10 |
| txwikinger | Is konq actively developed? | 21:10 |
| Riddell | txwikinger: yes, khtml has improved in 4.5 to some extent | 21:10 |
| ScottK | Riddell: The fact that I can't currently file a bug that won't get marked invalid immediately I find highly discouraging. | 21:10 |
| txwikinger | Riddell: and the GUI? | 21:10 |
| shadeslayer | txwikinger: yep, i was told to ditch development on rekonq and work on konqueror on #kde-devel one day :P | 21:10 |
| apachelogger | kthml just doesnt have nokia and apple and google in its back :) | 21:11 |
| * txwikinger wants tabs that can be re-ordered | 21:11 | |
| ScottK | Riddell: I think we should switch back to Konqueror now and consider Rekonq when there is something that might be suitable. | 21:12 |
| apachelogger | well, I am for trying konq+kwebkitpart but really think we should be using firefox to begin with and other than that does not care | 21:12 |
| Riddell | ScottK: I'm happy with that | 21:12 |
| ScottK | Konqueror + khtml is a better choice than Rekonq right now. | 21:12 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: We'd need to figure out how to deal with options that don't work with webkit if we shipped that. | 21:12 |
| * txwikinger is for kwebkit whatever browser it will be | 21:13 | |
| ScottK | txwikinger: The problem is that we don't have any that are at all end user suitable at the moment. | 21:13 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: I do not think they are that many | 21:13 |
| apachelogger | oh oh oh, someone please make sure that with whatever browser we use that java works | 21:13 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: OK. We'd need to figure that out before switching to it. | 21:13 |
| maco | txwikinger: mmm wait isnt webkit not-screenreader-friendly? | 21:14 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: I am suggesting to try it for a pre-release and see how it goes | 21:14 |
| apachelogger | so that we do not look into hiding stuff that doesnt need to be hidden because we do not ship with the webkitpart anyway | 21:14 |
| maco | txwikinger: nevermind, that doesnt matter on kubuntu. nothing qt is screenreader friendly to start with | 21:15 |
| * txwikinger needs webkit for the debugging stuff | 21:15 | |
| Riddell | if someone wants to review konq+webkitkde and work out how stable it is and what breaks in the config UI that would be great | 21:16 |
| ScottK | txwikinger: Yes, but you can install stuff. That's not a reason to make it default. | 21:16 |
| txwikinger | ScottK: Sure I can install firefox :p | 21:17 |
| ScottK | txwikinger: That won't get you webkit. | 21:17 |
| ScottK | ;-) | 21:17 |
| txwikinger | but firebug | 21:17 |
| Riddell | any other business? | 21:18 |
| ScottK | Any objections to Konqueor +khtml for now and Konqueror + webkit or Rekonq once we have a solid proposal and something that is tested to work reliably? | 21:18 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Is ^^^^ what you think we decided? | 21:18 |
| Riddell | ScottK: yes | 21:18 |
| ScottK | Excellent. | 21:18 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: looks like the settings are written all and entirely in cpp | 21:18 |
| apachelogger | given a list of features that do not work with the webkitpart one can easily disable that stuff | 21:19 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: All we need is someone to research it, provide a patch, and test. | 21:19 |
| apachelogger | I think research is the biggest problem there ^^ | 21:20 |
| ScottK | shadeslayer is a rekonq fanboi, so we need another minion for that. | 21:20 |
| shadeslayer | \o/ | 21:20 |
| shadeslayer | if someone kares enough to train me :P | 21:20 |
| * txwikinger tests out konq+webkit | 21:21 | |
| ScottK | Riddell: I suspect we can close the meeting. | 21:21 |
| Riddell | yes, 4.5 final tagging due tomorrow or next day | 21:21 |
| * apachelogger hands everyone a cookie | 21:21 | |
| Riddell | so ninjas and testers needed after that | 21:21 |
| shadeslayer | ahem... 4.5 rc was tagged | 21:21 |
| Riddell | thanks all | 21:21 |
| shadeslayer | \o | 21:21 |
| j-b | Now that your meeting is over, can anyone explain me why Kaffeine doesn't use phonon anymore? | 21:21 |
| Riddell | j-b: let's move to #kubuntu-devel | 21:22 |
| j-b | ok | 21:22 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
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