[03:16] godbyk: I see that German is almost ready to be released :D [03:18] humphreybc: yep [03:18] what other languages are close? [03:18] no clue. [03:18] haven't heard from any other editors yet. [03:19] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+translations [03:19] german is way down the page [03:19] same with greek [03:20] yeah, I don't know what's up with the translation stuff these days. [03:20] lol [03:20] launchpad's translation stuff frightens and confuses me. [03:20] I've given up trying to figure it out. [03:21] lol [03:33] humphreybc: so.. still up for a 29 July release of the second edition? [03:33] I haven't been paying any attention to what's been happening with it. [03:33] I know some bugs have been fixed. [03:34] but beyond that, I don't know how many bugs remain or anything. [03:38] definitely [03:38] we should be okay [03:39] wait [03:39] that's 2 days away [03:39] yep [03:39] when's the next point release for lucid? [03:39] I don't know. [03:40] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-July/031016.html [03:40] "Due to not having a full-time release manager" << They should have hired me. [03:40] so we can release on the 29th or on the 12th august, whatever suits us [03:41] heh.. great. [03:41] lol. have you heard back from them? [03:41] no [03:41] the position has been taken down, presumed it was filled [03:41] interesting. [03:41] i guess I suck at managing :P [03:42] well, then.. do we want to release on the 29th or the 12th? [03:42] humphreybc: they probably got your application and went "oh, no! not humphreybc!" [03:42] honestly, you know more about the project at the moment than me [03:42] i've been rather absent as of late [03:42] What kind of changes go into the point release of ubuntu? [03:42] just bug fixes [03:42] anything we should wait on to ensure our edition matches their point release? [03:42] nah [03:42] it's behind the scenes stuff [03:42] godbyk: all the UI tweaks? [03:43] did you look at that list? [03:43] nisshh: no UI tweaks [03:43] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04.1 [03:43] humphreybc: what about all the sound menu stuff? [03:43] nisshh: no that's for maverick [03:43] oh THAT ubuntu release :) [03:43] a point release is just a bug fix [03:43] thought you meant maverick [03:43] hehe [03:43] nope [03:45] I put android 2.2 on my magic yesterday [03:45] nice? [03:45] it's great [03:45] stable? [03:45] my phone is actually now a joy to use [03:45] yeah it's stable, cyanogen mod 6 rc2 [03:45] They fixed most the bugs/complaints I had. [03:45] cool [03:45] you know, it's FAST and you don't get frustrated when things don't appear for 20 seconds [03:46] I'm just using the stock froyo. [03:46] and the keyboard is responsive now [03:46] * nisshh cant even afford a new comp, so no new android for him... [03:46] you've got a nexus one right kevin? [03:46] yeah [03:46] yeah [03:46] i bet yours is really fast [03:46] the magic is underpowered [03:46] did you see the guys who put ubuntu on the N1? [03:46] it seems pretty fast. [03:46] have you got the fancy new gallery? [03:46] it could always be faster, though. :) [03:46] * godbyk is impatient. [03:46] heh [03:47] I still don't think android is as fast as iphones [03:47] but i've never dried any of the new uber fast phones like the Droid X [03:47] tried* [03:47] the best feature for me when going from 1.6 - 2.1 was the addition of the new "universal contact" thing [03:47] humphreybc: i think we should be grateful that there IS an alternative to the iphone :) [03:48] and the fact that facebook and twitter syncs with your contacts and downloads profile pictures from facebook, so when you scroll through contacts they all have pictures. It's so good. [03:48] the market still needs a lot of work though, too many shithouse apps [03:48] yea [03:48] yeah, I wish I could sort the apps by rating or something. [03:48] godbyk: do you know if Google has any kind of control / screening for apps so people don't create malicious ones? [03:49] I can't imagine it's totally free for all [03:49] they did add an 'update all' button, though. that killed one of my peeves. [03:49] update all is good [03:49] godbyk: do you SMS? [03:49] humphreybc: they pulled one app from the store and uninstalled it from people's phones because of that. [03:49] so they don't have any prevention [03:49] someone created a pseudo-malicious app as a test of security. [03:49] it didn't do any damage or anything, but google pulled it. [03:50] humphreybc: I didn't used to, but I do occasionally now. [03:50] http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/06/28/understanding-the-android-market-security-system/ [03:50] godbyk: when you send and SMS to someone, in the thread, it shows their picture, and it's meant to show your picture beside "Me" [03:50] but all I get is a gray box - do you get one as well? [03:50] I can't change it or anything, and it's bugging me to no end [03:50] humphreybc: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/06/exercising-our-remote-application.html [03:51] I get a grey android icon if there's no profile pic for them. [03:51] lame [03:51] i just get a gray box [03:51] but the contacts I talk to regularly have profile pics (either from facebook, google accounts, or one that I've set manually) [03:51] no i mean for ME [03:51] not for them [03:51] for the text messages I send [03:52] there is no picture for me [03:52] I thought it would have pulled it from my google profile or my facebook profile [03:52] oh! [03:52] I dunno.. lemme look. [03:54] in the Messaging app, there's a pic by my name. [03:55] lame [03:55] maybe it'll update eventually [03:55] godbyk: ah, that reminds me [03:55] in the Talk app, it's just a grey icon for me, though. [03:55] nisshh: what's that? [03:56] godbyk: iv taken over the Ubuntu Developers Manual from Rick, but i dont really know enough tex/latex stuff [03:56] godbyk: you know, all that formatting stuff [03:56] all iv figured out so far is how to include chapters [03:57] godbyk: could you point me at some good docs or something? [03:59] nisshh: sure. there was just a link I saw about that earlier. let me find it. [03:59] Y'know what's annoying? [03:59] godbyk: cool, thanks [03:59] humphreybc: no, whats annoying? [03:59] This down time we have in between releases where it's too early to write new stuff [04:00] yea [04:00] I'm running maverick at the moment and there isn't much we can write about, and we certainly can't take screenshots yet [04:00] nisshh: here it is: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/11/what-is-the-best-book-to-start-learning-latex [04:00] iv been out of sync with whats happening though, so i havent noticed [04:00] godbyk: awesome, thanks [04:01] I've been busy with other work, so I haven't been spending too much time with the manual project lately. [04:01] Seems like everyone else has been busy elsewhere, too. [04:01] I'm glad we're getting these translations out, though. [04:01] It'll definitely get easier (and more streamlined) as we go on. [04:01] godbyk: what the hell? im getting some kind of error [04:02] nisshh: ah, crap. that site's still in private beta. [04:02] yea [04:02] one of the links they provide is this: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/beginlatex/beginlatex-3.6.pdf which appears to be pretty decent. [04:02] let me paste some other links, too. [04:02] ok [04:02] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX [04:02] godbyk: I know, the translations are great. I'm looking forward to announcing the german one on planet ubuntu [04:03] http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Wiki/index.php/LaTeX:About [04:03] http://math.bard.edu/bloch/basicLaTeX.pdf [04:03] godbyk: and these wikibooks and pdfs teach you all the formatting and everything? [04:04] nisshh: well, they'll teach you the formatting commands for latex, and tell you about some of the packages that are available. [04:04] godbyk: right, cool [04:04] if you want a book that covers everything, I'd recommend The LaTeX Companion by Mittelbach and Goossens. [04:04] ok [04:04] It's a huge tome that covers a ton of packages and everything. [04:04] yea [04:04] i probably dont need to know everything]\ [04:04] nisshh: Are you wanting to have your own book design? [04:05] just more than i currently do [04:05] in that case, the earlier links will probably suffice. [04:05] well, currently the dev manual looks almost exactly like our manual [04:05] because Rick took the initial code from e1 [04:05] ok [04:06] so i thought we dont really want them to look the same [04:06] plus i need to learn how to do all the title page stuff [04:07] right. [04:07] and learn all the commands [04:07] What I usually recommend with regard to book design is to write the content first. And then we'll design the book around that content. [04:07] geez, thats alot of stuff [04:07] yea, thats the plan [04:07] The content will tell us what kind of formatting and styles we'll need. [04:07] I'm happy to help out with the book design side of things, too. [04:08] i am already seeing trends with the content [04:08] and we only have 3 or 4 chapters drafted in there [04:08] that would be great if you could help out [04:08] but probably not necessary until later [04:09] godbyk: was it vish who did the title page for the manual? [04:10] I think vish made the icons, but I think the final design was thorwil's. [04:10] right [04:10] I could be wrong, though, it was a while back. :) [04:10] yea, hehe [04:13] Do you have a repository for the content so far? [04:14] be back in a sec, rebooting into windowz [04:14] godbyk: yep, just let me grab you a link [04:14] 'kay [04:15] godbyk: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual/ubuntu-developer-manual/trunk [04:18] got it. [04:19] godbyk: im not sure when Rick grabbed the stuff from e1 or if he grabbed it from e2 [04:19] but i suspect its from at least 4-6 weeks ago [04:19] yeah, I helped him find all the files he needed. [04:19] I don't recall which branch I had him snag. [04:19] yea [04:20] I need to merge some stuff from e1 to e2 anyway. [04:20] (mostly translation-related tweaks) [04:20] yep [04:20] is it worth getting stuff from e2 and putting it with what i already have? [04:20] probably not yet. [04:21] fair enough [04:21] there are also likely a few ubuntu-manual-specific things in the document class that should be moved elsewhere, too. [04:21] but we can deal with all that when we do the book design. [04:21] godbyk: what i have so far has pretty much everything i need i think [04:21] okay [04:21] yea [04:22] anything that's notably different from the ubuntu manual? [04:22] i dont think so [04:22] apart from the content [04:22] anything in particular you want to do differently design-wise? [04:22] (if not then our work's mostly done. ;-)) [04:23] well, i just thought it would be shitty to have both manuals look almost identical [04:23] It depends on a few factors, I guess: [04:24] 1. If you want the book to appear like part of a series/collection of related books (of which the Ubuntu Manual is a part), then you'll want the designs to be shared. [04:24] 2. If the design meets the needs of the content, then why fret about whether it's similar to another book's design? [04:25] 3. If you want to make a point that this book isn't associated with / related to the Ubuntu manual, then you may want a different design. [04:25] 4. If your book's content doesn't require the same design elements, then you'll want a diff. design. [04:25] 5. I forgot what the fifth point was. [04:25] :) [04:26] shit, i never thought of any of those :) [04:26] godbyk: how come your so damn smart? [04:26] :) [04:26] heh.. I read a lot. :) [04:27] at some point, we (being the Ubuntu Manual Project) will need to talk about the book design for the Maverick edition. Do we want to keep the same design? Just make a few tweaks? Overhaul the design? [04:27] yea [04:28] now that you have mentioned it i suppose both manuals are sort of under the same banner arent they? [04:28] so the designed should be similar, if not the same [04:29] with maybe the exception of the title page [04:29] The current design is, of course, not perfect, either. There are definitely some things I want to tweak. :) [04:29] such as? [04:29] Is there a deadline for the release of your manual? [04:30] we were hoping for a maverick final release, but i dont think we will get there [04:30] so id say, no, there is no deadline [04:31] I need to tweak the typeface size and line spacing a bit. I want to find a better way to code the underlying margin note stuff (but that may be outside the scope of a simple design tweak). [04:31] yep [04:31] It'd be nice if the new Ubuntu font could be incorporated -- we'll see how that goes. [04:31] yea, that would be nice actually [04:32] And then there's the brand new Ubuntu/Canonical branding stuff. We may want to incorporate some elements from that. [04:32] yea [04:32] are all the screenshots the same size in the manual? [04:33] they're the same resolution and scale. [04:33] ah [04:33] but from one language to the next, the scale may differ. [04:34] i was just going to say, you could save file size of the pdf if each screenshot was relative to whats in it [04:34] for example: [04:35] a sound menu screenshot does not need to be 800px wide in the pdf [04:35] oh, right. yeah, the screenshots are cropped to show only what's relevant. there are very few full-screen images. [04:35] if that was cropped right down, a decent chunk of bytes could be chopped out of the pdf [04:36] ah ok [04:37] godbyk: as it stands, the dev manual will be much smaller than the other manual, due to less screenshots and shorter and fewer chapters [04:37] there will probably be less than 25 screenshots in it [04:38] Gotcha. [04:38] What's being covered in the dev manual? [04:38] the manual is about creating your own small app while working through each chapter [04:39] so you end up with a nice little identica reader app at the end [04:39] A tutorial for writing a new app with Ubuntu? Neat! [04:39] yea [04:39] If I may make a suggestion: any code examples you provide in the manual should be the best practice or best way of accomplishing that. [04:40] some of the stuff covered is: quickly, quickly-widgets, glade, desktopcouch, U1, etc [04:40] Because that code will be copied and pasted from that point forward. [04:40] your exactly right [04:40] So if your code is the 'easy but insecure' way of doing something, that'll be the code that finds its way into applications. And then the applications will be insecure. [04:40] but you also have to remember that we are trying to keep it as simple as possible [04:40] Yeah, that's always the problem. [04:41] i guess we will have to find a balance in between simple and good code [04:41] But far too often, I see programming manuals/tutorials that give a couple lines of code and then make an off-hand remark about 'this is really a bad way to do this, but we don't want to confuse you with scary details on how to do it the proper way'. [04:41] and that code ends up getting copied verbatim. [04:41] yea [04:42] but we have already solved part of that problem: quickly [04:42] generates known good code by default [04:42] quickly sounds intriguing. I haven't had time to look at it yet, though. [04:42] its pretty cool [04:42] but not for people who can code like mad :) [04:43] if you know your stuff, your better off not using it [04:43] is it fairly limiting? [04:43] what's the downside? [04:43] well, yes and no [04:44] one sec [04:44] right [04:44] quickly generates templates [04:44] which you dont HAVE to use [04:44] godbyk: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=3a41f790937732e1&hl=en [04:45] humphreybc: that was one LONG reboot [04:45] :) [04:45] oh no i just didn't open pidgin for a while [04:45] right..... [04:46] humphreybc: aha. my number is Unknown. [04:46] so I have to find a way to edit the number on the sim card? [04:48] apparently [04:49] i've read through all the replies, none seem to work [04:49] I don't have another phone handy that can read sim cards. [04:49] well, my old german handy might.. but I doubt it has a charge anymore. [04:49] me neither [04:50] nisshh: yup , what godbyk said , i did the alpha one with wolter's lynx [04:50] If the iPhone can edit the SIM card, why can't my N1? [04:50] hey, vish! [04:50] it's stupid isn't it [04:50] godbyk: heya :) [04:50] you'd think the android could [04:50] sup vish [04:50] vish: right, but did you do the final e1 version? [04:50] or was that thorwil? [04:50] humphreybc: yeah, you would. [04:51] vish: how's it going? haven't chatted with you in forever, it seems. [04:51] nisshh: final was thorwil with me doing a few icons [04:51] vish: right [04:51] godbyk: gah , busy .. :( [04:52] has to continue designing a t shirt [04:52] oops, forgot the me thing [04:52] vish: I hear ya. Same here. I think everyone's been busy the past few months. [04:54] humphreybc: t shirt? for OMG? [04:54] vish: nope, for uni :P [04:54] but i have a truckload of OMG! work to do [04:54] humphreybc: hehe that site is gaining a life of its own! [04:55] not just omg ubuntu [04:55] humphreybc: omg suse is also by do0d ? wow! i just thought it was someone else doing the same stuff... I guess he ran out of OMG news in Ubuntu ;p [04:55] i'm working on a new site [04:55] we own a number of sites :) [04:55] omg suse is written by someone else though [04:56] what site are you working on humphreybc? [04:56] nisshh: ubuntu gamer [04:56] and a new site that we're launching later in the year that I can't tell you about :) [04:57] * nisshh lets out an excited squeak! [04:58] humphreybc: im a member of the au loco and we just recently started our own gaming clan :) [04:58] groovy [04:58] :) [05:38] wow [05:38] i just saw a giant netsplit happen in 6 channels at once [05:39] Yeah, I was feeling pretty lonely here. [05:40] meh [05:43] heh [05:44] I was here godbyk [05:44] It said you had abandoned me, too, humphreybc. [05:44] aw [05:46] lol [05:46] group hug? [05:48] * godbyk opens his arms [05:48] what, nobody? [05:49] * humphreybc hugs back [05:49] yay! [05:50] wait for me! [05:50] not my fault im lagging! [05:52] aw, and here I thought you'd shunned me, nisshh! :) [05:53] never! [06:06] hey, nisshh: is there a nice wiki page for a C programmer who wants to get started with helping Ubuntu (as a C developer)? [06:06] something that lists ways they can help. (write patches for bugs, join an existing project team, start a new project, etc.) [06:07] I guess this might work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment [06:10] godbyk: dude, you do know im a python programmer, not a C programmer right? [06:10] yeah. [06:10] I just figured you might know what getting-started-as-a-developer guides were out there. [06:10] but i am learning C [06:10] ah, right [06:11] I just got an email from someone who's a C programmer (embedded systems, mostly) who wanted to get started helping out Ubuntu. (He's been using it for 2-3 years.) [06:11] godbyk: well, there arent really ubuntu-dev guides out there [06:11] right [06:11] I know. Get busy! :) [06:11] hehe [06:11] just tell him to find an app written in C or something [06:12] or a part of ubuntu written in C [06:12] and tell him to hack on it or fix bugs [06:12] I pointed him to that link and suggested he could start by submitting patches to bugs or find a project he's interested in and contact the dev team and offer to help. [06:12] yea [06:13] compiz 0.9 is written in C [06:13] I thought they were rewriting it in C++. [06:13] but alot of projects use python now [06:13] it was C i thought [06:14] I think it was originally C and is/was being rewritten in C++. [06:14] From compiz.org: "The latest release of Compiz is 0.8.6. A C++ rewrite has been announced on 24th December 2009 and is about (June 2010) to be released as a beta version. This is a major rework of the whole project, aimed at easing future development." [06:15] ah right [06:15] always get mized up with C and C++ [06:15] Apparently C programmers do, too. :-P [06:15] lol [06:16] (I have to refactor so much C++ code written by C programmers. "C++ is just C with classes, right?" Gah!) [06:16] hehe [06:16] * nisshh uses python for exacly that reason [06:16] exactly* [06:17] I'm writing a little python script right now to parse some CSV files, mash the data together, and spit out some line graphs and some stats. [06:18] But I rarely write python code, so it's quite messy at the moment and needs to be rewritten from scratch. [06:18] (also, since I don't get to use python much, I don't know most of the pythonic ways of doing things, so it's probably grossly inefficient) [06:21] yea [09:05] Hey, thorwil. If you get some time today, could you whip up one of your famous wraparound covers? :) [09:06] godbyk: i'm about to get to it [09:06] It's past my bedtime. G'night! [09:06] thorwil: Awesome. Thanks! [09:06] nite! [09:06] After that, I think we'll be ready for the release of the German translation -- unless you're aware of any last minute bugs we need to fix. [09:07] Gute Nacht! [13:18] Hi everyone! [13:18] Can anyone tell me if the developers of "software-sources" have an channel-sources? [13:18] Cause I want to run the process for selecting the best Mirror server, every time before making an update to some program, for obtain more speed downloading [13:19] pkramerruiz: i don't think there is a channel just for the software sources app [13:19] pkramerruiz: to be honest, once you've picked a mirror, it's not really worth checking all of the speeds every time [17:57] Hey, thorwil. Thanks for the cover! [17:58] hi godbyk. np [17:58] thorwil: did you notice anything else that we need to do before releasing the german edition? or shall I assume all is well and that I can proceed? [18:02] godbyk: didn't look beyond the cover, don't intend to change that now ;) [18:17] thorwil: fair enough. :)