[05:16] <nhandler> doctormo: I am jealous of you for going to debconf
[05:17] <doctormo> nhandler: I'm taking a scary chinese bus for $20 and I'm staying on the couch of a friend from the UN. Circumstance!
[05:17] <doctormo> cowch*
[05:17] <nhandler> doctormo: I'd sleep on the streets to get to one of these conferences ;)
[05:18] <doctormo> nhandler: Where are you? there is still time!
[05:18] <doctormo> :-0
[05:19] <nhandler> doctormo: I'm in Chicago. My issue is my parents :( I'm keeping my fingers crossed for UDS (it will largely depend on the date/location)
[05:22] <doctormo> nhandler: You can't still be that young
[05:22] <doctormo> Or old fashioned :-D
[05:23] <doctormo> nhandler: 11.04 UDS - October 25-29 (2010)
[05:24] <nhandler> doctormo: I'll be 18 this September. But basically, if they don't give the OK and call me out of school, I'll get slapped with a pile of detentions and Fs upon returning
[05:24] <doctormo> nhandler: Ah, depends if your leaning on your academics, if your concerned about them then I guess you are.
[05:25] <nigelb> doctormo: oh don't take him to the dark side with us :p
[05:25] <doctormo> I did so great on my French, Graphics Design and History GCSEs that I got a 'U'
[05:25] <nhandler> doctormo: I'm not into college just yet ;)
[05:25] <nigelb> doctormo: U?
[05:26] <doctormo> yep, it means I couldn't be given a grade because I didn't do the exam. Undefined. The lowest defined grade is 'G' for a GCSE.
[05:26] <nigelb> ouch
[05:27] <doctormo> nigelb: At least I got a 'D' for English and Science and a 'C' for Maths. We're not big on respecting the national curriculum in our family. It's a joke.
[05:29] <doctormo> At least the English GCSE curriculum is, I think it gets better when you get to MCSEs, A levels and such.
[05:29] <doctormo> nigelb: What's it like where you are?
[05:36] <nigelb> doctormo: we have state boards and 2 central boards
[05:36] <nigelb> I studied in one of the central boards
[05:37] <doctormo> Any good?
[05:37] <nigelb> the state boards are more free on marks, central board is tougher
[05:37] <nigelb> they were pretty good I think
[05:37] <nigelb> far too much emphasis on mugging up stuff from the textbook
[05:38] <nigelb> I'm not a big fan of gaining knowledge that way
[05:38] <nigelb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Board_of_Secondary_Education
[05:45] <doctormo> nigelb: Ah we call that "revising from a book", mugging would be someone stopping you in the street to demand valuables by force.
[06:07] <nigelb> doctormo: :D same effect
[06:08] <nigelb> they stop you in the exam hall and demand answers :p
[06:08] <doctormo> lol
[06:09] <doctormo> nigelb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLb7tOl-pHc
[06:09] <nigelb> doctormo: gah, at work.  No sound.
[06:11] <doctormo> nigelb: Store it for later and watch with unction.
[07:21]  * nigelb waves to dpm and kim0 
[07:21] <nigelb> good morning!
[07:21] <dpm> hey morning nigelb :)
[07:28] <sense> good morning!
[07:32] <kim0> nigelb: dpm sense Morning :)
[07:32] <dpm> hey sense, hey kim0 :)
[07:34] <sense> hello kim0, dpm!
[07:35] <popey> Morning community!
[07:40] <kim0> Morning
[07:47] <nigelb> wonder what happened to dholbach
[07:47] <nigelb> morning popey
[07:47] <nigelb> sense: you're one of guadec organizers?
[07:50] <doctormo> Morning popey, have a curry?
[07:52] <sense> nigelb: yes, kind of
[07:52] <sense> nigelb: Mostly webmaster and on-site volunteer
[08:08] <dholbach> good morning
[08:17] <nigelb> sense: w00t!
[08:18] <nigelb> dholbach: um, nhandler asked me to tell you - "please add events to calender when you have package training classes"
[08:18] <dholbach> nhandler: did you add it already?
[08:18] <dholbach> nigelb: did you blog about ugj+cleansweep? :)
[08:21] <nigelb> dholbach: OMG! Doing now!
[08:22] <dholbach> ROCK!
[08:23] <nigelb> dholbach: gah, sloppy connection :/
[09:33] <dholbach> nigelb: thanks
[09:33] <dholbach> hola randa_
[09:33] <randa_> hi dholbach
[09:35] <huats> morning !
[11:12] <dholbach> brb
[11:19] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:20] <huats> hey hey miss czajkowski
[11:22] <popey> lo
[11:23] <dholbach> hey popey, huats, czajkowski!
[11:24] <huats> hello dholbach!
[11:24] <dholbach> that's like half the LoCo Council
[11:24] <huats> it is :)
[11:24] <czajkowski> heh
[11:24] <czajkowski> do you need us to do anything while you have us here
[11:26] <dholbach> bang the UGJ drum? review the LD needs-decision bugs? :-)
[11:26] <dholbach> the usual :)
[11:26] <czajkowski> whooo we have our venue for UGJ :D
[11:26] <dholbach> nice
[11:26] <czajkowski> aye, we are going to do one day real life meet up, and day 2 on irc to help those who can't make it
[11:27] <dholbach> that sounds great
[11:29] <czajkowski> well we're limited by space so we thought it'd be a good way to help folks. we'll see
[11:29] <popey> i like that way of doing it
[11:30] <czajkowski> it worked out wel the last time, we picked a wiki section to go spring cleaning on irc
[11:30] <czajkowski> people worked on it, and I reviewed it
[11:31] <dholbach> nice
[11:32] <popey> we need to do something similar
[11:32] <popey> might hold one at chez popey
[11:33] <dholbach> always the best :)
[11:33] <popey> ah, flaw in plan
[11:33] <popey> on holiday
[11:48] <czajkowski> dholbach: what bugs need decisions?
[11:48] <dholbach> all those tagged with needs-decision
[11:48] <czajkowski> clealry not anle to work LP 1st thing in the morning
[11:49] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bugs?field.tag=needs-decision
[11:49]  * czajkowski gets a bucket of tea to wake up 
[11:49]  * czajkowski hugs dholbach Thank you
[11:50]  * dholbach hugs czajkowski back
[11:52] <czajkowski> huats: care to help
[11:52] <huats> czajkowski, I'll do my best
[11:53] <huats> at least I'll give them a look
[11:53] <czajkowski> yup
[11:53] <czajkowski> thanks
[11:53] <huats> dholbach, count me in :)
[11:53] <dholbach> :)
[12:03] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[12:04] <duanedesign> has anyone watched any of the live stream from guadec?
[12:09] <czajkowski> hmm some of the stuff, needs a decision I've no idea
[12:09] <czajkowski> :(
[12:43] <duanedesign> rye:aha, the firefox nightly is playing the guadec stream :)
[15:10] <czajkowski> lordie http://www.reviveyourpc.ie/#costs
[15:12] <AlanBell> nice
[15:14] <czajkowski> at that price
[15:14] <AlanBell> pretty cheap, I wouldn't do it for that
[15:15] <czajkowski> to install Ubuntu EUR 90 seems a lot
[15:15] <popey> its a fair amount of work on some random computer
[15:15] <popey> potentially some hours
[15:15] <AlanBell> no, not a lot at all
[15:16] <AlanBell> also is it on-site?
[15:16] <czajkowski> trying to see if they''ll come along to the Ubuntu hour
[15:16] <czajkowski> we have limerick city council manager coming along tonnight and his desktop is Ubuntu :)
[15:17] <AlanBell> "If you are in Limerick city or environs we will call out to you by appointment" €90 seems very cheap
[15:24] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/user/ReviveYourPC interesting stuff there
[15:27] <czajkowski> I'm curious to know who's behind it
[15:28] <czajkowski> I do like the website though
[15:52] <nhandler> dholbach: No, I didn't add any of the packaging training sessions yet
[15:52] <dholbach> nhandler: ok
[15:54] <dholbach> nhandler: done
[15:54] <nhandler> Thanks a lot dholbach
[15:56] <akgraner> I want to thump people on the head!
[15:56] <akgraner> grrrr
[15:56] <czajkowski> and good morning to you to akgraner
[15:57] <akgraner> czajkowski, :-)  the word throttle is coming to mind today!
[15:58] <czajkowski> I know that feeling all too well
[15:58] <czajkowski> sup
[15:58] <akgraner> Does the word volunteer not mean anything to anyone....
[15:58] <czajkowski> grin
[15:58]  * czajkowski offers akgraner a large bottle of whiskey
[15:58] <akgraner> If I get one more email  - DEMANDING to know why the newsletter went out a day late.  I actually had someone tell me if they get UWN late again they are emailing jono and jane
[15:59] <czajkowski> ugh feck off
[15:59] <czajkowski> throttle it is so
[15:59] <maco> are you serious?
[15:59] <akgraner> yes
[15:59] <akgraner> ok 2 days late
[15:59] <akgraner> but still
[15:59] <czajkowski> akgraner: skype?
[15:59] <maco> if i said what im thinking i would be banned from this channel
[15:59] <czajkowski> maco: welcome to most days for me :)
[16:00] <akgraner> czajkowski, can't write this second
[16:00] <maco> czajkowski: im actually surprised nobody's said anything to you about "feck"
[16:00] <akgraner> about to run to the tag office and drop off my car for inspection
[16:00] <czajkowski> maco: nout wrong with feck, it's very polite
[16:00] <akgraner> but I am so pissed right now  - I just had to share with other like minded people
[16:01] <akgraner> Maybe I'll move publishing to Wednesdays from now on! Screw giving up weekends... *sigh*
[16:01] <czajkowski> might be an idea
[16:02] <nhandler> akgraner: I laugh when reading messages like that, because you know that: a) They would never go to anyone and that b) If they did, nothing would happen because you did nothing wrong.
[16:02] <akgraner> nhandler, I know  - but the fact they would even say that
[16:02] <akgraner> grrrr
[16:02] <akgraner> sorry I just need to vent :-/
[16:02] <akgraner> needed I mean
[16:03] <akgraner> I love UWN!  and want it to grow and get better and have more people contribute etc.. so I didn't want to let it fester :-)
[16:04] <akgraner> I feel much better now btw....
[16:04] <akgraner> (I try to avoid voicing neg stuff - but ugh today was one of those days)
[16:04] <akgraner> sorry y'all
[16:08] <czajkowski> akgraner: *hugs*
[16:10] <akgraner> czajkowski, thanks!
[16:10] <akgraner> czajkowski, the interview with Alison Randal is available now
[16:10] <akgraner> it's on the Linux Pro site
[16:10] <czajkowski> link ?
[16:10] <akgraner> http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/OSCON-2010-Interview-Allison-Randal-OSCON-Chair
[16:11] <czajkowski> thanks
[16:11] <akgraner> and here is the pne for John Pugh - http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/OSCON-2010-Interview-John-Pugh-Canonical
[16:12] <czajkowski> akgraner: your accent is so cute
[16:12] <akgraner> we had to cut a lot b/c I kept saying OEM and not Corporate Services - and then I asked him a 2 part question and halfway through the question he was like wait what was your question again
[16:12] <akgraner> we were laughing so hard
[16:12] <czajkowski> aye listened to the john one
[16:12] <akgraner> so now I have to work on on Camera techniques and no more t-shirts  - I need to dress up a bit more
[16:12] <akgraner> but I'll get there
[16:12] <akgraner> 1st time for things is never pretty or easy is it?
[16:13] <czajkowski> akgraner: you did a great job
[16:13] <akgraner> czajkowski, wait - YOU have the accent :-P
[16:13] <czajkowski> no Ma'am :p
[16:15] <akgraner> :-P
[16:15] <akgraner> Oh so I'll be doing a video interview with Pete tomorrow
[16:16] <akgraner> this should be hilarious especially for those who know us both  - I am sure there will be a lot of edits
[16:16] <akgraner> Last time I interviewed him on Camera I asked him a question and he said - Why am I talking to you again?
[16:17] <czajkowski> I remember
[16:17] <czajkowski> akgraner: please let it roll including the out takes
[16:18] <akgraner> oh god no - I asked him a question for an audio test and he started singing, "You never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips"
[16:18] <akgraner> and I kept on asking the questions ignoring his song burst and he kept on singing
[16:18] <akgraner> It would have been funny had it not been me...
[16:18] <akgraner> I was trying to be serious :-/
[16:20] <akgraner> speaking of Pete he's ready to walk out the door  - bbiab
[16:20] <akgraner> czajkowski, I'll let you know what time tomorrow I am recording the interview so you can watch and laugh!
[16:20] <jcastro> hi!
[16:21] <czajkowski> akgraner: have fn
[16:21] <czajkowski> jcastro: ello ello
[16:21] <jcastro> akgraner: stackexchange is up!
[16:21] <jcastro> hi laura
[16:21] <akgraner> jcastro, awesome!
[16:21] <czajkowski> jcastro: *hugs* I know it's it great!!!!
[16:21] <akgraner> I'll email evan and get some comments
[16:21] <czajkowski> that was definately a community effort!
[16:22] <czajkowski> hmm we need to get teams ading their events to the LD for global jam http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/195/detail/
[16:22] <jcastro> needs more questions!
[16:22] <AlanBell> it isn't letting me log in
[16:23] <czajkowski> AlanBell: SE ?
[16:23] <AlanBell> yeah
[16:24] <AlanBell> or rather it doesn't think I committed to it so isn't letting me in the beta
[16:24] <jcastro> I followed the link in the mail it sent me
[16:24] <czajkowski> AlanBell: did you get an email
[16:25] <czajkowski> for beta testing ?
[16:27] <AlanBell> no
[16:28] <AlanBell> odd, I was one of the first people to commit to it I think, but I can't find it now
[16:29] <AlanBell> http://area51.stackexchange.com/users/9686/alan-bell
[16:30] <AlanBell> ah, I need to do some openid-fu
[16:31] <AlanBell> yay, I am in
[16:34] <jono> mornin gall
[16:34] <jono> all
[16:35] <jcastro> hi
[16:39] <AlanBell> hi jono
[16:39] <czajkowski> jono: aloha
[16:39] <jono> hey AlanBell czajkowski
[16:48] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day
[16:49] <dholbach> I'll call it a day
[16:49]  * dholbach hugs you all
[17:01] <czajkowski> <---- Ubuntu hour Gone
[17:09] <doctormo> jono: have you seen dholbach?
[17:13] <nigelb> doctormo: he's gone for the day I suppose
[17:13] <nigelb> uds-n officially announced?
[17:14] <doctormo> nigelb: Not that I know of, I would love to know where it was being held though.
[17:15] <nigelb> doctormo: czajkowski just tweeted that it will be in orlando
[17:15] <nhandler> doctormo: Yeah, dholbach left ~25 minutes ago
[17:15] <doctormo> Ah not too bad then, transport will be a bit of a problem, having no buses or trains. But I remember it's quite nice that time of year down there.
[17:15] <nhandler> Darn. There is no chance of me getting down to Florida 3 times this year
[17:16] <nigelb> heh
[17:16] <doctormo> nhandler: Couldn't you just hang around one of those times?
[17:16]  * nigelb should try to come this time
[17:16] <nigelb> I wonder what work will say if I ask for a week leave
[17:17] <nhandler> doctormo: I'm going to Orlando end of February for band, and either winter or spring break to visit the grandparents. But I guess if I get sponsored there is a chance
[17:17] <doctormo> nhandler: It'll be in October won't it? End of.
[17:17] <nhandler> doctormo: Yeah
[17:27] <AlanBell> nigelb: don't ask for leave, ask to be sent there
[17:28] <nigelb> AlanBell: ha, I doubt
[17:41] <AlanBell> jono: can we expect some more flesh on the bones of the UDS announcement soon?
[17:42] <czajkowski> we know date adn location, all we need really, venue shortly i guess
[17:42] <jono> AlanBell, yep
[17:42] <czajkowski> jono: when you're free in a bit can you gives a poke please
[17:42] <AlanBell> czajkowski: let him finish his UDS blog post first!
[17:42] <jono> czajkowski, sure, let's have our call today as we missed it
[17:42] <jono> when are you free?
[17:43] <czajkowski> jono: you tell me when you are and i'll work around that
[17:43] <czajkowski> much easier
[17:43] <jono> czajkowski, 7pm your time?
[17:43] <jono> 1hr 15?
[17:43] <czajkowski> jono: sounds good
[17:44] <jono> :)
[17:55] <czajkowski> jono: mailed agenda
[17:55] <czajkowski> only way i can work things out in my head sorry
[17:56] <jono> thanks czajkowski - no that works well for me
[18:59] <czajkowski> jono: ready
[19:00] <jono> czajkowski, sorry call overrunning, can you give me a few?
[19:01] <czajkowski> ok
[19:01] <czajkowski> :)
[19:08] <jono> czajkowski, done, all set?
[19:08] <czajkowski> ok
[19:25] <popey> o/
[19:34] <jono> czajkowski, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/KnowledgeBase#Team%20Resources
[19:40] <popey> he's got a page for everything :)
[19:54] <jono> popey, :)
[21:27] <czajkowski> aloha
[21:27] <czajkowski> so the Limerick city council manager uses and loves Ubuntu and is trying to get his 400 desktop users to migrage
[21:28] <czajkowski> hearing the sotries it's really cool
[21:34] <czajkowski> Anyone else this applies to http://nctritech.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/tcpip_punch1.jpg
[21:35] <AlanBell> we really need to talk about your issues with violence as a solution to problems
[21:35] <cjohnston> lol
[21:35] <czajkowski> AlanBell: if you were over here you could make a forutne
[21:36] <czajkowski> the CC are looking for onsite help should have an issue
[21:36] <czajkowski> they can do onsite support within 4 hrs
[21:36]  * AlanBell notes that czajkowski /is/ over there
[21:37] <czajkowski> I'm not technical enough to help with server issues
[21:38] <czajkowski> or the queries they'd have
[21:38] <czajkowski> I am the put the person in contact with the necessary person
[21:59]  * popey hugs jono 
[22:06] <doctormo> popey?
[22:07] <popey> hullo!
[22:09] <popey> jono: want me to remove you as admin from loco-contacts?
[22:10] <czajkowski> I suspect jono is hiding behind his very full inbox
[22:10] <popey> hehe
[22:12] <czajkowski> possibly what little hair he has out
[22:17] <jono> popey, please
[22:18] <jono> czajkowski, no kidding
[22:18] <popey> and event planners?
[22:18] <jono> trying to get the new UDS site ready too
[22:18] <jono> I have built a new UDS site :)
[22:19] <popey> is it... wordpress based?
[22:19] <czajkowski> jono: whoo
[22:19] <jono> popey, indeed
[22:19] <doctormo> jono: oooo, can't wait to see it.
[22:19] <popey> jono: do you want me to remove your admin from event-planners?
[22:20] <jono> popey, please
[22:20] <popey> ok, done
[22:20] <jono> I have also created a new developer site
[22:20] <jono> both are 90% done
[22:20] <doctormo> jono: Did you get the canon designers to give you branding?
[22:20] <czajkowski> popey: what date is the LC meeting again at please?
[22:20] <popey> yay, i just directly contributed to jono getting less email!
[22:20] <jono> just finishing them up
[22:20] <jono> doctormo, I worked with stas to get the new theme ported :)
[22:20] <popey> czajkowski: 6th?
[22:20]  * jono hugs popey
[22:20] <popey> :)
[22:20] <popey> gimmie your imap password and I'll clear your inbox ;)
[22:21] <czajkowski> popey: the LoCo council not the CC :)
[22:21] <popey> ETOOMANYCOUNCILS
[22:21] <popey> AMIRITE!?
[22:21] <czajkowski> no
[22:21] <jono> popey, lol
[22:22] <doctormo> I want to start the Jedi Council, sub devision of Jedi ubuntu users.
[22:22] <popey> These aren't the packages you're looking for.
[22:22]  * popey waves a hand near doctormo 
[22:23] <AlanBell> doctormo: that reminds me, I was going to do something about that
[22:23] <popey> czajkowski: 3rd august
[22:23] <popey> czajkowski: 3 meetings in one night!
[22:23] <doctormo> We really need a galactic council (CC) to hold the trade federation (Canonical) in check. :-P
[22:23] <popey> only if we get light sabres
[22:23] <czajkowski> I've 2
[22:23] <czajkowski> popey: what time?
[22:24] <popey> loco is 17:00 UTC I think
[22:24] <popey> hmm, clash
[22:24] <popey> oh, my bad
[22:24] <popey> ignore that
[22:24] <popey> 19:00 UTC I guess?
[22:25] <popey> gah
[22:25] <popey> load of fail
[22:25] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[22:25] <popey> that says 20:00 UTC
[22:25] <czajkowski> doesn't that clash with EMEA ?
[22:25] <czajkowski> bah nm
[22:26] <czajkowski> fridge fail
[22:26]  * czajkowski kicks the fridge 
[22:26] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[22:26] <popey> so does that
[22:26] <popey> EMEA takes precidence
[22:26] <popey> its always in that slot :)
[22:27] <czajkowski> aye and I've the LoCO health check before that
[22:27] <popey> shall i move the loco council to 19:00 UTC and mail loco council and loco contacts?
[22:27] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck
[22:27] <czajkowski> aye as that's a short meeting
[22:28] <popey> right, doing now
[22:28] <czajkowski> jono: when we've this all worked out we'll mail you :)
[22:28] <popey> haha
[22:32] <jono> thanks czajkowski :)
[22:32] <popey> done czajkowski
[22:33] <popey> btw, its my 10th wedding anniversary this weekend :D
[22:33] <popey> going to take wifey away, no computers :)
[22:33] <czajkowski> aww nice
[22:33] <czajkowski> that means no tweeting
[22:33] <popey> heh
[22:33] <popey> maaaybe
[22:33] <popey> photos of food and my beautiful wifey :)
[22:33] <czajkowski> poor Claire
[22:34] <popey> -i
[22:34] <popey> yeah!
[22:34] <popey> i should probably book something :S
[22:34] <czajkowski> didn you tweet this ages ago looking for suggestions..
[22:35] <czajkowski> subtle reminder: those involved in TEAMS/Councils/BOARDs please do your monthly reports!
[22:35] <czajkowski> popey: ours is done :)
[22:38] <doctormo> hey dinda
[22:38] <dinda> doctormo: howdy
[22:38] <doctormo> dinda: Hows things?
[22:38] <dinda> doctormo: actually been meaning to try to contact you; have a few ?? if you have a moment
[22:39] <doctormo> dinda: Sure, go ahead :-)
[23:03] <sense> good night!
[23:03] <doctormo> night sense!
[23:03] <doctormo> sweet foss licensed dreams!
[23:07] <sense> That was actually a greeting, not a note I was leaving. ;)
[23:08] <cjohnston> lol
[23:10] <czajkowski> sense: not making any sense there tonight
[23:10] <czajkowski> :p
[23:11] <sense> Just returned from the Collabora Beach Barbecue a bit earlier than most so I can do some stuff I have to do while still getting some sleep. ;)
[23:12] <doctormo> sense: Working on Ubuntu for me is like a deep sleep, sometimes it go right and sometimes it turns into a nightmare. But always I have no idea why it does either and everythign seems very random.
[23:13] <sense> doctormo: Randomness isn't something an OS should have.
[23:14] <doctormo> sense: Community.
[23:14] <sense> ah
[23:14] <sense> yes, then it is unavoidable
[23:14] <czajkowski> sense: did you meet Luis at the Collabora
[23:14] <czajkowski> crazy spaniard
[23:15] <sense> czajkowski: I've seen him around at the registration desk (which is where I'm been standing for most of the time, really) and briefly exchanged a few words with him them.
[23:15] <sense> Not at the prty, though.
[23:15] <czajkowski> sense: please give him a bug hug from me!
[23:16] <sense> czajkowski: I'll try to do so!
[23:16] <sense> Are people here watching the WebM live streams, by the way? How are they?
[23:18] <sense> Can't believe it's only one day of GUADEC and then it is over again. After all those months of preparation with GUADEC being in the future still it will now be past time at last.
[23:20] <doctormo> sense: Congratulations, will you be at DebConf?
[23:20] <sense> OMG, poor Jorge is leaving tomorrow for Debconf already. The guy is having three weeks of sprints and  conferences aafter each other.
[23:20] <sense> doctormo: In New York? :P
[23:20] <doctormo> jcastro: Will remember beer.
[23:20] <doctormo> sense: Yes, I'll be getting the bus down, or I might be cycling... we'll see if the org for that comes through :-D
[23:21] <sense> doctormo: I'm tired, not involved in the Debian commmunity and not rich enough to fly to the States for a conference.
[23:21] <sense> ;)
[23:24] <czajkowski> hah jono http://identi.ca/notice/44357371
[23:25] <jono> czajkowski, ;-)
[23:28] <sense> jono: GUADEC is going nicely. I do hear some people complaining over the visibility of (well-known/important/high-profile) Canonical employees, and there was this post of someone who started Canonical bashing again after the GNOME contribution percentages were puhlished, but generally GUADEC is doing grat.
[23:28] <sense> The ten-twelve Ubuntu Desktop CDs from Ubuntu NL are all gone already. :P
[23:29] <jono> sense, complaining about the visibility of employees? anyone in particular?
[23:29] <sense> jono: The names I heard were Jorge and Ivanka, I think, but it was mostly that people would have wanted to see more people from Canonical around, I guess.
[23:30] <doctormo> sense: Put the launchpad team on fixing gnome bugs I say! :-P (no not really)
[23:30] <jono> sense, were the complaints that they are not mixing with people?
[23:30] <sense> jono: Not really about the mixing, just that they weren't 'there', not where people could find them.
[23:31] <doctormo> sense: I don't think they're national treasures like the whitehouse or the crown jewels.
[23:31] <jono> sense, thanks for letting me know, much appreciate
[23:31] <jono> d
[23:33] <sense> jono: I do have a feeling that somehow Canonical/Ubuntu people don't always feel fully appreciated by other GNOME community members, as if they are afraid they will constantly have to defend themselves. That could explain why I saw more RedHat, Fedora, Novell and SuSE shirts and very little Ubuntu/Canonical ones, whereas I know there were some employees.
[23:33] <sense> Not to say that the atmosphere is hostile or that there are a lot of unkind people. Most people are great!
[23:34] <doctormo> sense: hmm, interesting. I was debating if I should go to DebConf with Ubuntu shirts or not. would I get a hostile reaction etc.
[23:34] <jono> sense, when you say "saw", within what context?
[23:34] <jono> you mean in sessions?
[23:35] <sense> Mostly the general reaction of people in the crowd, I can't say much about the talks because I attended very little.
[23:36] <sense> The "GNOME 3 for your Application" talk just showed the extreme lack of communication/cooperation between Canonical's Ayatana and RedHat's GNOME 3 (That's how I've become to see GNOME 3 the last few days.), nothing negative about Canonical.
[23:36] <sense> jono
[23:36] <jono> sense, ok, thanks
[23:36] <jono> to what extend have you heard this?
[23:36] <jono>  a few folks, or many?
[23:38] <sense> jono: There are some people who are not happy with Ubuntu, and are not afraid to tell so. But mostly it is something that is not outspoken in the face of people, but expressed in the way people react to someone, in blogs, in private talks, etc
[23:38] <sense> Not very extreme visible, just a bit disdain underneath the skin.
[23:39] <sense> It is not very, very bad, but just makes me a bit sad.
[23:40] <sense> I like you guys, I don't like it when people smacktalk about you.
[23:40] <jono> sense, yeah, I think it is a small but vocal minority
[23:41] <sense> indeed
[23:41] <jono> and much of it complaining with little evidence of issue
[23:41] <sense> but it makes people think twice to show they're from Ubuntu
[23:41] <jono> we can always improve, but ironically, people gave us smack about not doing upstream work and now we do all this work in Ayatana and we still get smack
[23:41] <sense> Ayatana is not GNOME.
[23:41] <jono> thanks sense for letting me know, much appreciated
[23:41] <jono> indeed
[23:42] <sense> They want us to do GNOME, but they want GNOME their way only. ;)
[23:42] <jono> indeed
[23:42] <jono> which I think is limited of perspective
[23:42] <sense> Canonical has its own ideas, very strong ideas.
[23:42] <jono> btw sense, great work at GUADEC
[23:42] <czajkowski> sense: you cannot please everyone, it's unfortunate.
[23:42] <jono> sorry I could not stay for the full duration
[23:42] <jono> on the upside, I am releasing UDS soon :)
[23:42] <sense> jono: Thanks. A shame indeed you couldn't stay longer.
[23:42] <sense> jono: One last word from me:
[23:43] <doctormo> sense: I agree, gnome and ayatana have their own views and I think a fork of the upper part is likely.
[23:43] <doctormo> I can't see Gnome Shell for example becoming an Ubuntu standard.
[23:43] <sense> a great example in the difference in spirit is the way people's laptops look. On the UDS, after Unity was announced people immediately started installing it and using it, even though it was very nstable and new.
[23:43] <sense> However, on GUADEC most people are still running two panel layouts with the monitors, cpufreqs and loads of shortcuts in it
[23:44] <sense> No one is using modern, new, fancy, exciting stuff, like GNOME Shell.
[23:44] <sense> Even not after the main talks about it.
[23:44] <sense> People here are more conservative, I believe.
[23:44] <jono> sense, good point
[23:44] <sense> So they react strongly to change.
[23:45] <jono> well the other thing which will cause tension is that I am sure some people are blaming us because the gnome 3.0 has slipped
[23:45] <sense> Yeah, we should have helped out making it possible, of course... Like RedHat would have allowed Canonical to jump in the GNOME Shell team. Like Canonical allows other companies in the Ayatana design phases. ;)
[23:46] <jono> heh, ironically no one is blocking anyone from joining Ayatana and offering design
[23:46] <jono> we just make it clear it is not a democracy
[23:46] <jono> although.....we do need to do a better job of getting people involved
[23:47] <sense> That can get some improvement indeed, but since we're not a democracy it is very hard to do it properly. Takes some time to get it up and running. Probably also coincides with proper design remote collaboration tools.
[23:47] <jono> well design communities are new to us
[23:47] <jono> and we have many lessons to learn
[23:48] <jono> thanks to people like doctormo I think we are getting there
[23:48] <sense> yeah
[23:48] <sense> We're learning loads here.
[23:48] <doctormo> jono: It's also not an anything else, I've seen respectable people with evidence ignored for sake of the hard choice on ayatana.
[23:48] <doctormo> lol
[23:48] <cjohnston> jono: you still going to be down here in September?
[23:48] <doctormo> I just read that :-)
[23:48] <jono> cjohnston, where?
[23:48] <jono> florida?
[23:49] <jono> yep :)
[23:49] <sense> cjohnston is probably attending next UDS again. ;)
[23:49] <cjohnston> Do you have the dates?
[23:49] <czajkowski> to be fair the design team are great to take on board suggestions in order to get a wider audience with the community. fair duce to them
[23:49] <cjohnston> sense: only if I can get sponsored
[23:49] <czajkowski> cjohnston: UDS N (11.04) will be in Orlando, Florida (Oct 25-29).
[23:49] <cjohnston> jono: you dont by chance know the venue do you?
[23:49]  * nhandler has a feeling jono is working on his UDS post based on the pictures he uploaded to flickr (including the community one)
[23:49] <cjohnston> czajkowski: I know.. I must be sponsored
[23:50] <jono> nhandler, working on the new uds website :)
[23:50] <cjohnston> (venue for UDS, your vacation too)
[23:50] <nhandler> jono: Cool
[23:50] <sense> jono: Summit will be ready more in advance this time? ;)
[23:50] <doctormo> czajkowski: The DX and design teams should really be made distinct, I think a lot of the friction has been between DX and community design.
[23:50] <jono> sense, hah, we will see
[23:51] <czajkowski> doctormo: I refer as many do to the design team, being ivankas team
[23:51] <czajkowski> some call it Dx
[23:51] <doctormo> jono: I feel like we could have helped with the UDS website somewhat, I mean your a busy guy and all that, should you really be making websites?
[23:51] <sense> I want sponsoring as well again! :P I'll be a lot more expensive this time though. But I can't attend UDS O anyway since it will be right in the middle of my final exams. I shouldn't even be tempted to participate remotely.
[23:51] <sense> jono: Have you tried to follow GUADEC remotely already? We've got WebM streams!
[23:52] <doctormo> czajkowski: The DX team isn't ivanka's, the dx team is the one with Ted Gould and a few other familar faces, more coding, less graphical.
[23:52] <jono> doctormo, heh, its all cool, thanks for the offer help
[23:52] <jono> sense, :)
[23:52] <jono> sense, I havent had a chance to check out guadec yet
[23:52] <sense> ok
[23:53] <sense> You can't be online all the time, of course. There's more in the world.
[23:54] <cjohnston> jono: we need to talk about Sept. sometime.. See what y'alls plan is. :-)
[23:56] <jono> cjohnston, cool
[23:56] <jono> :)
[23:57] <cjohnston> be cool to hang out a little while your here if you arent too busy