[00:07] <czajkowski> right hitting the sack, early start in the morning before the mothership arrives back after a wee holiday and I need to get the house ship shape
[00:07] <czajkowski> nn folks
[00:07] <sense> czajkowski: Sleep well!
[00:07] <czajkowski> never, but I can try :)
[00:08] <sense> czajkowsk: Good luck then!
[01:53] <akgraner> doctormo, ping
[01:54] <akgraner> doctormo, are you or someone else in the MA LoCo Team near Lowell?
[01:55] <akgraner> I have a dear Friend of mine - who is a priest at St. Patrick's in Lowell who wants to switch to Ubuntu
[01:55] <akgraner> and if I can't make it to LinuxCon then I would like to see if someone else in the area can help him
[01:56] <akgraner> He emailed me to tell me he was reading Ubuntu User Magazine as well as my blogs and he is now ready to make the move - which means if that goes well he will move the rectory to Ubuntu as well
[01:56] <doctormo> akgraner: Yes, leftyfb lives in Lowell
[01:57] <akgraner> awesome!  Thanks!
[01:57] <akgraner> we lived in Tewksbury for 3 years
[01:57] <doctormo> nice, contacting now
[01:58] <akgraner> and the kids went to St. Patrick's School and I helped out in the rectory and taught CCD and trained the Altar Servers there...among other things
[01:58] <akgraner> so the Parish is a pretty special place for me
[01:58] <akgraner> doctormo, thank you!
[03:41] <doctormo> akgraner: OK I sent the message, leftfb said to email him details and to talk directly, his nickname at ubuntu.com
[03:41] <doctormo> leftyfb*
[03:55] <akgraner> thanks will do
[03:59] <maco> akgraner: pm?
[05:26] <doctormo> jono: Got yourself a bit of a battle there with that gnome contributions thing.
[05:33] <jono> doctormo, heh
[05:36] <doctormo> jono: You know I felt I could have helped you with the website thing? I take it back, I think I could have been much more useful as a reputation suicide for this flame war. ;-)
[05:40] <jono> doctormo, reputation suicide?
[05:41] <doctormo> jono: Most of these memes are tar-babies and it's fun to get involved, may clear up a bunch of stuff but we know that the people we need to convince won't be convinced no matter what words are used.
[05:42] <jono> doctormo, I am not interest in winning anything - just expressing my views
[05:42] <jono> frankly, I don't care what the trolls think
[05:43] <jono> but I am also keen to learn
[05:43] <jono> thanks doctormo for expressing your views there
[05:43] <jono> I appreciate it :)
[05:45] <doctormo> jono: How does this sound: gnome is a huge, complex project and so while the majority of the project's components are wonderfully satisfactory the design directory of Ubuntu has required us to branch out and effectly functionality-fork a couple of these modules. We had hoped to get the functionality in these modules pushed into gnome upstream as honestly a fresh start has done a lot of good for indicators and notifiers, especially
[05:45] <doctormo>  making them kde and gnome compatible.
[05:47] <doctormo> Unfortunately either because of technical reasons or on going politics, our developers have been unable to convince the core gnome development fraternaty of the value of these Ubuntu built contributions. Some of us suspect Not Invented Here Syndrome, but more than likely we just have an extra burden of proof on us to prove these extra-ordinarily awesome modules.
[05:57] <doctormo> Oh before I forget in my sleep, I did want to thank you jono for saying I've been a positive influence on the ayatana project. It's hard to know sometimes if actions are making things worse or better.
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning
[07:52] <sense> morning everyone!
[08:13] <nigelb> morning dholbach, sense :)
[08:13] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[08:22] <sense> morning nigelb
[08:31] <jcastro> morning everyone!
[08:31]  * jcastro is in the telepathy talk at guadec
[08:39] <nigelb> jcastro: w00t w00t
[08:40] <jcastro> woo, encrypted p2p chat is coming!
[08:42] <nigelb> jcastro: WOW
[08:47] <duanedesign> good morning
[09:13] <nigelb> duanedesign: awfully early morning isn't it?
[09:14] <popey> jcastro: OTR?
[09:16] <duanedesign> nigelb: yeah. Wanted to watch some of the streams from guadec
[09:20] <nigelb> ah
[09:27] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:27]  * nigelb waves to randa_ and czajkowski :)
[09:28] <dholbach> hey czajkowski, hey randa_
[09:28] <czajkowski> how is everyone?
[09:28] <nigelb> splendid day today except for the rain
[09:28] <randa_> hi guys
[09:29] <czajkowski> I know
[09:29] <czajkowski> tis lashing here
[09:45] <czajkowski> lot of blog posts this morning on GNOME
[09:51] <nigelb> czajkowski: heh, lesson learned.  DOn't sleep!
[09:52] <huats> :)
[09:52] <czajkowski> nigelb: I know I was wide awake and nothing to read, I wake up 5 posts all on GNOME
[09:54] <nigelb> czajkowski: heh.  Its going to be the forever topic for trolls
[09:55] <AlanBell> much as I like statistics, all this contribution analysis and related rants just makes me want to go install Kubuntu
[09:56] <sense> Jorge has left for DebConf. The poort guy must be completely broken when that's done. Three weeks of conferences and sprints!
[10:04] <nigelb> sense: let him do what he's paid to do for at least 3 weeks  :p
[10:06] <sense> nigelb! :P
[10:08]  * popey hugs dholbach 
[10:09] <vish> heh , numbers for the week is probably gonna be "16 to 1" !
[10:10]  * dholbach hugs popey back
[10:24]  * czajkowski hugs the crazies in #ubuntu-community-team  :)
[10:27] <AlanBell> this rant was brought to you by the number 16 and the letter G
[10:37] <sense> Ranty rant the rant ranter de rant ranting rant ranting rant rants rant rant rant rant rantily.
[10:53] <czajkowski> hehe http://twitter.com/nearyd/status/19898583057
[11:07] <czajkowski> I dislike it when one my plans goes not to plan. balls!
[11:07] <nigelb> czajkowski: most of my plans don't go according to plan
[11:07] <nigelb> thats why I don't plan
[11:07] <nigelb> I just jump in and do :D
[11:08] <czajkowski> I do both, but most annoying when things cock up tbh
[11:08]  * czajkowski goes and hatches plan B 
[11:08] <nigelb> czajkowski: I agree.
[11:08] <nigelb> Oh.  Work getting birthday cake for me \o/
[11:09] <nigelb> All the month's birthday's are being celebrated at the end of the month.
[11:20] <nigelb> dholbach: my laptop is coming back! \o/
[11:21] <nigelb> with a motherboard change of course, still, she'll be back :)
[11:21] <dholbach> nigelb: YOOHOOO!
[11:21] <dholbach> :)
[11:22] <nigelb> I have to pay an arm and a leg (or at least close to) but totally worth it :)
[12:11]  * dholbach → back to home desk and lunch :)
[12:13] <popey> Hullo all!
[12:13] <popey> We're looking for suggestions for topics to discuss on UUPC..
[12:13] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SegmentIdeasFromTheCommunityForUUPC
[12:30] <AlanBell> http://www.dell.co.uk/ubuntu it is back
[12:36] <nigelb> popey: remember you gave a session at a UOW titled "Don't Panic"?
[12:37] <popey> ya
[12:37] <nigelb> I feel its a good idea to talk about something like "Don't Panic Tip of the Week" for UUPC.... maybe....
[12:37] <popey> add it to the pad! :D
[12:37] <nigelb> popey: I just wanted somone to say I wasn't totally bonkers :D
[12:38] <popey> nothing is ruled out yet! :)
[12:38] <popey> AlanBell: what the hell font is that in #4?
[12:38] <nigelb> haha
[12:38] <popey> i like the idea btw nigelb :)
[12:39] <nigelb> popey: :)
[13:40] <nigelb> popey: crowd sourcing segment ideas looks like a good idea :D
[13:41]  * nigelb pokes AlanBell to read the segment docs
[14:04] <AlanBell> I can't read the segment docs right now.on my mobile and O2 says I have to be 18 to see them
[14:08] <dholbach> down to inbox 24
[14:08] <dholbach> urgh :)
[14:08] <czajkowski> yay
[14:08]  * popey hugs dholbach some more
[14:10] <nigelb> AlanBell: lol
[14:10] <nigelb> AlanBell: don't worry... a few more years :p
[14:10]  * dholbach hugs popey and czajkowski :-D
[14:47] <jono> morning all!
[14:47] <czajkowski> jono: ello ello
[14:47] <paultag> morning jono
[14:48] <jono> hey czajkowski paultag
[15:01] <czajkowski> dear rain feck off I want to go for a walk
[15:09] <czajkowski> don't forget team reports folks...
[15:11] <paultag> I forget every single month
[15:11] <paultag> I need to figure out some kinda system, euch
[15:12] <popey> ooooooo bold
[15:12] <popey> http://design.canonical.com/?p=6571
[15:12] <paultag> woo
[15:15] <jono> wow, my blog is nice and fiery :-)
[15:15] <czajkowski> nixw
[15:15] <czajkowski> jono: aye planet is rocking this morning, went to bed dead silence, woke up and lots of jbber jabber
[15:15] <popey> hehe
[15:15]  * popey douses jono 
[15:16] <jono> hehe
[15:16] <jono> wasnt expecting it to spark all this off
[15:16] <jono> Mark post is great
[15:16] <czajkowski> marks post was very good
[15:16] <jono> he is spot on I think
[15:16] <czajkowski> jono: dave nearys website crashed
[15:16] <popey> its friday today, people clearly have nothing better to do :)
[15:19] <jono> popey, lol
[15:20] <popey> Dave Neary sounds like a jolly nice chap though
[15:21] <czajkowski> he is actually
[15:21] <popey> I've never met him
[15:23] <czajkowski> oh some comments on marks blog now
[15:23] <czajkowski> wondered how long that would take
[15:23] <jono> he is a lovely chap
[15:34] <nigelb> dholbach: poke?
[15:40]  * nigelb hugs pleia2 spontanously
[15:40] <nigelb> sysadmin day... spread the love :)
[15:41] <paultag> as /me brings server online :)
[15:41]  * nigelb hugs paultag too!
[15:41] <paultag> :P
[15:42] <nigelb> paultag: gitosis implemented!
[15:42] <paultag> I'm trying to find a new theme for my new blog
[15:42] <nigelb> also jabber server
[15:42] <paultag> nigelb: \\o// !!!!!
[15:42] <paultag> nigelb: woo, great job!
[15:42] <nigelb> may be I should take a career change to sysadmin :p
[15:42] <paultag> haha no way man
[15:48] <dholbach> nigelb: pong
[15:49] <Technoviking> The updated font looks fantastic in bold now
[15:54] <nigelb> paultag: http://xyzzy.ksplice.com/cyoa/enter
[15:57] <paultag> nigelb: hehe, I know an engineer @ ksplice
[15:57] <paultag> nigelb: she rocks hardcore. spang@debian
[15:57] <nigelb> paultag: wow
[15:58] <paultag> nigelb: I met her downtown last weekend with mako :)
[15:59] <paultag> nigelb: haha that page rocks
[15:59] <paultag> -- you awaken, stretched out on a couch with an IV in your arm.
[16:00] <nigelb> paultag: hahaha
[16:00] <nigelb> paultag: damn.  spang dented the link.
[16:01] <nigelb> paultag: awesome coincidence :)
[16:01] <paultag> haha
[16:01] <paultag> circle of friends
[16:01] <paultag> nigelb: I finally got a new domain
[16:01] <paultag> nigelb: I'm very happy with it
[16:02] <nigelb> paultag: exactly! circle of friends!
[16:02] <nigelb> Linky to new domain?
[16:02] <paultag> nigelb: pault.ag
[16:02] <paultag> nigelb: it's not up yet, but it's coming!
[16:03] <nigelb> paultag: damn.. I mean WOW
[16:03] <paultag> whatcha think?
[16:03] <nigelb> paultag: see pm ;)
[16:04] <paultag> noted :D
[16:04] <nigelb> heh
[16:04] <paultag> I love it so much
[16:04] <paultag> even to nab pault.* is tough
[16:04] <paultag> I'm stoked :)
[16:04] <nigelb> yeah, its like dholbach's domain
[16:04] <nigelb> daniel.holba.ch
[16:05] <paultag> haha, that's great
[16:05] <paultag> there is no te TLD
[16:05] <paultag> or I would have done tagliamon.te
[16:05] <paultag> but me, my dad and my g'dad all have the same name, so it would be tough to do paul.tagliamon.te
[16:05] <paultag> I could do paul.r.tagliamon.te
[16:06] <nigelb> heh
[16:06] <paultag> but that's just very long
[16:06] <czajkowski> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_WM/
[16:06] <nigelb> paultag: long? http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/
[16:06] <paultag> holy christ
[16:07] <nigelb> czajkowski: London :/
[16:08] <nigelb> heh, lol @ "Own the content management system"
[16:45] <dholbach> ok my friends - I call it a day
[16:45] <dholbach> see you next week!
[17:13] <pleia2> nigelb: thanks :)
[17:13]  * pleia2 hugs
[17:13] <nigelb> :)
[17:32] <maco> paultag: i use a .name address
[17:33] <maco> paultag: you could do sr.paul.tagliamonte.name, jr.paul.tagliamonte.name, iii.paul.tagliamonte.name
[17:33] <maco> and then youd ony have to buy 1 domain name and just know how dns works ;-)
[17:34] <nigelb> maco: don'y tell me ma.co wouldn't be awesome ;)
[17:35] <maco> haha
[17:35] <nigelb> maco: still can get it if you want to :D
[17:35] <maco> though actually, google doesnt spider the TLD, just the lower level domains
[17:35] <maco> so itd be spidered as "ma" not "maco"
[17:35] <maco> (and daniel.holba.ch is spidered as "daniel holba")
[17:36] <nigelb> so what, as long as you get to tell your friends... my site is my name with a dot in between ;)
[17:42] <nigelb> czajkowski: omg! I should remember not to click your food links! I want ice cream and m & m now!
[18:08] <maco> hahahaha
[18:09] <pleia2> I had krumba.ch for a bit, but my contact who could get .ch domains went away :(
[18:09] <maco> pleia2: i think you have a new one *points to holba.ch*
[18:11] <pleia2> maco: nah, not really worth burdening someone else for it, I have krumbach.us so that's good
[18:11] <maco> is krumbachus what happens when a german marries a roman?
[18:11] <maco> hmm wait..your old married name...
[18:11] <pleia2> haha
[18:16] <doctormo> I have martinowens.com I'm happy with that.
[18:17] <doctormo> Actually I didn't know it was there until another ubuntuero pointed it out.
[19:35] <paultag> maco: hum hha
[19:35] <paultag> that's not a bad idea. We do all have different middle names
[19:35] <paultag> so we could always do paul.r/c/a.tagliamonte.name
[19:36] <maco> keep in mind .name's are usually registered at the third level
[19:36] <maco> so youd be registering a.tagliamonte.name and c.tagliamonte.name and r.tagliamonte.name
[19:36] <paultag> maco: is it only second level?
[19:37] <maco> third
[19:37] <paultag> oh jez
[19:37] <paultag> maco: I'll stick with the one I got today -- pault.ag :D
[19:37]  * pleia2 just renewed simcoec.at and caligulac.at
[19:37] <pleia2> <3
[19:37] <maco> second is possible nowadays (washt allowed before) but if someone has registered a 3rd you cant grab the 2nd
[19:37] <paultag> wooo!
[19:37] <maco> *wasnt
[19:37] <paultag> maco: Hurmm, yeah. Not many people have Tagliamonte as a last name, though :)
[19:38] <maco> fair enough
[19:38] <pleia2> uncommon_names++
[19:38] <maco> so if there's nothing *.tagliamonte.name then you could register the whole tagliamonte.name 2nd level
[19:38] <paultag> that would be nifty
[19:39] <paultag> I wish .te was a tld
[19:39] <paultag> Oh whoh!
[19:39] <paultag> te is?!
[19:39] <paultag> tel :(
[19:58] <doctormo> paultag: For dislexics you new domain looks like this: Pault ageist... I just can't read tag with a dot in it, that's why identi.ca is ""identi-CA"
[20:03] <paultag> doctormo: hehe, I don't mind :)
[20:03] <paultag> I just like nifty domains
[20:04] <doctormo> paultag: How are you?
[20:04] <paultag> doctormo: well thanks
[20:04] <paultag> doctormo: and yourself?
[20:04] <pleia2> doctormo: oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one
[20:04] <doctormo> paultag: Excited about DebConf
[20:05] <paultag> doctormo: aye aye
[20:05] <doctormo> Some utter insane MIT people are going to cycle down to New York for the event.
[20:06] <pleia2> my boss is going up to debconf for a few days
[20:06] <paultag> doctormo: mako and spang?
[20:07] <doctormo> paultag: Yea, you knew already :-D
[20:07] <doctormo> pleia2: Cool, should I meed her/him?
[20:07] <doctormo> meet*
[20:07] <pleia2> doctormo: him, maybe :) he runs a business where we *only* work with debian an open source
[20:08] <pleia2> we're not making millions, but we have been in business for over a decade
[20:08] <doctormo> pleia2: Being is business is better than making millions IMO, profit corrupts honest business ;-)
[20:08] <pleia2> you two will get along swimmingly
[20:08] <doctormo> You could never mistake me for a capitalist could you :-D
[20:08] <paultag> doctormo: nice :)
[20:09] <duanedesign> anyone know how to add vte.terminal widget to Glade widget library?
[20:09] <pleia2> it drives my boyfriend a bit crazy how the company is built so much on principle "you can do so much better if you.. <insert non-charitable change here>!"
[20:09] <pleia2> yeah, but we're not about $$$, we're about debian
[20:10] <pleia2> doing something we believe in and all that
[20:11] <paultag> spang has an awesome shirt
[20:11] <paultag> "My free software runs your company"
[20:11] <pleia2> :)
[20:12] <pleia2> and your google and your facebook and your amazon...
[20:12] <paultag> chown -R us:us ./base
[20:20] <doctormo> paultag: chown -R us /bases
[20:21] <doctormo> pleia2: Your bf is more charity ("be kind and generous") than ethical business ("do the right thing")?
[20:22] <pleia2> doctormo: sorry, he's more capitalist than charity and ethical
[20:23] <pleia2> we do a lot of work for non-profits, offer a "non-profit discount" which frequently amounts to not charging for a lot of little things
[20:23] <doctormo> pleia2: you can be an ethical capitalist, I think you must mean he's more central capitalist than distributive capitalist right?
[20:23] <pleia2> yeah
[20:24] <pleia2> but it does seem like we go out of our way to be non-capitalist at times, it's perfectly ethical to charge non-profits the full amount
[20:24] <pleia2> it's just not charitable
[20:28] <doctormo> pleia2: I agree, but that has to be weighed up with social concern and what one feels is ones social responsibility to redistribute the wealth of your more able customers to your less able but more needy customers.
[20:28] <maco> so who all ubuntu people are going to debconf? anyone know?
[20:28] <maco> doctormo, me, cjwatson, shtylman is all i know
[20:29] <maco> pendulum was going to go but doesnt feel well enough now
[20:29] <doctormo> Oh no, is she ok maco?
[20:29] <pleia2> doctormo: I think that's where the beliefs of my boyfriend and I diverge, social responsibility is not directly tied to business in his mind, it all mushes together in mine
[20:30] <maco> doctormo: yeah
[20:32] <doctormo> pleia2: For me it's simply a function of the operation. If it were possible to operate a business without human beings, then perhaps you would have a case for no social responsibility. But simply because humans are the operators, it is the duty of those involved to ensure they conduct themselves towards their social values and not just use mechanicalism as an excuse and a crutch for bad moral decisions.
[20:33] <AlanBell> did I just /join #deep-conversations?
[20:33] <pleia2> doctormo: I tend to agree, but it's certainly does not seem to be the prevailing opinion in this country :) it's a news story when a company is hugely charitable
[20:34] <pleia2> AlanBell: haha
[20:34] <doctormo> pleia2: This is also why I don't particularly find it helpful to excuse Microsoft's employees by suggesting that it's the company that's morally bankrupt.
[20:34] <doctormo> pleia2: When it's more likely a lack of moral fortitude on the the people involved. in it decisions.
[20:34] <doctormo> *unhelpful, not helpful.
[20:34] <doctormo> Oh wait, no I was right
[20:34] <AlanBell> big organisations don't hold any single point of view
[20:35] <doctormo> AlanBell: No, but cultures tend to have a moral location, even if it's a hazy one.
[20:35] <doctormo> AlanBell: We put out own personal morals in the pot of those we work with and the result of our interactions is the cultural result.
[20:36] <doctormo> pleia2: I did actually quit a job because I felt their conduct wasn't moral enough. They were inciting rumor about celebs to increase the traffic to their websites.
[20:37] <pleia2> I am not sure I'd go that far, individuals have a hard time making a difference in most large organizations, and a lot of employees are apathetic about change because of it
[20:38] <pleia2> it's like voting
[20:39] <pleia2> and priority-wise, I don't expect everyone to quit over moral qualms, it's noble that you did, not typical/expected
[20:40] <doctormo> pleia2: Oh I don't think it's typical and I wasn't there long.
[20:41] <doctormo> Either way, everything we say to our boss and our peers effects them ever so slightly. I think a lot of us feel like we're not having any effect because the effect is slight and the results are not visible or obvious.
[20:41] <pleia2> yeah
[20:42] <doctormo> pleia2: Oh, branding for the us loco site? any thoughts?
[20:43] <pleia2> doctormo: none really :\
[20:43] <doctormo> pleia2: Not fussed about the current graphics?
[20:43] <pleia2> if we could just copy the drupal theme to a wordpress theme I'd be happy, but since that's not easy I figured we just redo it
[20:43] <pleia2> I think the current flag logo thing can stay
[21:47] <czajkowski> Guest43220: ello stop breaking things:p
[22:12] <paultag> hey jono_, poke :)
[22:12] <jono_> hey paultag
[22:12] <paultag> jono_: I'm planning on unplugging this weekend -- do you know when we can start applying for UDS sponsorship?
[22:13] <jono_> paultag, next week
[22:13] <paultag> jono_: rocken, thanks :)
[22:14] <jono_> :)
[22:14] <czajkowski> jono_: *hugs* you're very special, glad to see you can mess up and update :p
[22:14] <jono_> czajkowski, hehe thanks :)
[22:14] <jono_> getting my installation disc sorted now
[22:15] <doctormo> jono_: What happened?
[22:20] <jono_> doctormo, no idea
[22:20] <jono_> bunch of packages got removed
[22:21] <pleia2> clearly we need ubuntu goggles, so you avoid drunk sudoing
[22:21] <pleia2> :)
[22:21] <jono_> haha
[22:25]  * paultag looks down
[22:25] <paultag> I've partitioned my drive drunk before. I've never woken up and said "Oh look! Cool! New partition table!"
[22:27] <AlanBell> heard someone say once "you know you had a bit too much when you wake up next to code you don't recognise"
[22:27] <paultag> AlanBell: I've woken up and pulled source off git, started going through it, and swearing "Who the hell wrote this?!". I looked at the git commit blame, and it was me at 4 AM :(
[22:34] <doctormo> AlanBell: Drunk Perl used to be a competition.
[22:36] <paultag> I did not think perl could get worse
[22:36] <paultag> clearly i've never seen drunk perl
[22:45] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Ubuntu%20partner%20logos.pdf yay \o/
[23:28] <akgraner> Oh before I forget all you perl people there is a new perl special brought to you by Linux New Media on Stands now :-)
[23:28] <akgraner> there is also a new Admin special as well that will become a quarterly magazine in the fall as well