=== twister004_ is now known as twister004 [00:32] dksad [00:58] mathiaz: fyi i got an updated version of openldap with ufw profile and apport ready to go === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [01:01] hello everyone I have set up my server I have installed ISPConfig but now I would like to know how to get it live so my three diffrent domains point to my diffrent sights how would i do this? How would i get a domain to point to my ip? === ian_brasil___ is now known as ian_brasil [01:59] zul: great! === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [02:37] New bug: #611526 in openldap (main) "package slapd 2.4.21-0ubuntu5.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 143" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611526 === rmk_ is now known as rmk === metcalfc_ is now known as metcalfc [03:21] what applications do you guys use for server monitoring? looking for something much simpler than nagios and that has an android app or rest api to allow for mobile monitoring and notifications [03:22] ping? :-) [03:22] ping doesn't help you get notifications about load average or service availability [03:23] I know, I was just being facetious. I'll be interested to see what other people suggest though. [03:24] hahahha yeah wasn't sure, legitimate point though [03:25] I've been playing with zenoss and its still rather complicated, I would also need to build custom solutions for monitoring my applications and an android app, plus I would need to run it on a dedicated box === hggdh is now known as hggdh|away [04:49] Good Night [04:50] Does anybody has experience setting up a Radius server in Ubuntu? [04:52] Hey, what's the package for Mono again? [04:52] I installed it on my other Ubuntu server, just forgot how. === rmk_ is now known as rmk [05:34] can someone help me with my ubuntu-server issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9655540 ? [05:51] can someone help me with my ubuntu-server issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9655540 ? [06:06] can someone help me with my ubuntu-server issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9655540 ? [06:09] !repeat [06:10] Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org while you wait. [06:10] twb': i should wait more than 15 min? [06:10] Yes. [06:10] More like an hour or three. [06:10] IRC is live chat? [06:10] email/forums are 1 - 3 hrs [06:11] Kids these days [06:11] yep, we want everything faster [06:11] If an email arrives the same day it's sent, you should consider yourself lucky [06:11] when i email people, i expect to hear back within hours [06:12] i almost always do too [06:12] thats because they want to talk to you [06:13] sweet3.1418: that could well be it [06:14] guampa's writing a semi-solution to it on ubuntuforums, and i've posted ideas to fix it on brainstorm.ubuntu.com [06:15] Is this your question? "Is there a way to bind specific programs to specific network devices (not IPs, since I have dynamic IPs)?" [06:16] twb`: affirmative [06:16] You should have just posted that, rather than linking to a page that contains it. [06:16] To answer your question: no, there's no generic way to achieve that. [06:16] twb`: i couldn't find it on the internet, so i thought others might have the same question and want it on the internet [06:16] twb`: its in the kernel? [06:17] the restriction to do that [06:17] Best practice is to bind to all addresses, and set up a firewall. [06:18] twb`: like change the route and use iptables to route programs (though iptables will not route PIDs) [06:18] twb`: also having dynamic ips makes it difficult to bind to addresses instead of network interfaces [06:19] Are you making a statement, or asking a question? [06:20] twb`: making a statement, re-affirming its not possible to do that === twb` is now known as twb [06:27] twb: what are users supposed to do that have two vpn services with their vpn services having different ip addresses, or users with two isps? [06:36] processroute: er, assign different ports? [06:36] I have two OpenVPNs and one vpnc terminating on my laptop, and it Just Works [06:46] twb: you never have the urge to run one program through the vpnc device tun0 and others through the VPN apps? [06:47] Er, no. [06:48] Even if I did, it's still just be a matter of writing firewall rules. [07:39] i'm in the middle of an ubuntu install at a point where it's asking me which partition to install grub on. no matter what i select, the following page tells me that i haven't chosen any partitions to install grub to and asks me to confirm. is there any way that i can manually install grub from here to ensure that my system reboots properly? [07:43] jefimenko: dont really know .. but u can try installing on /dev/sda itself .. not on a partition [07:44] what is ubuntu enterprise cloud? [07:44] kim0: i tried selecting that too [07:44] is there a way to escape into a shell and manually do it? [07:45] it's very important that this server reboots properly since i am doing the install remotely [07:45] it will be 10x as much work if it doesn't :( [07:45] jefimenko: r u in text installer ? [07:45] i think it's freaking out because i chose manual package selection during the install process [07:46] kim0: yes [07:46] jefimenko: wouldn't ALT+F2 or other Function numbers, get u on a shell [07:46] because i've done other remote installs just like this one [07:46] never had this problem... but i was stupid to try selecting extra packages to install now [07:49] kim0: yes, i can get instal a shell that way [07:49] kim0: but i'm not familiar with the install environment [07:49] i'm a little disoriented in this sehll [07:50] jefimenko: check this out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows [07:50] relevant commands [07:52] the shell environment only has the grub-installer command [07:52] i wonder if the installation is mounted somewhere else [07:54] i don't have the grub or grub-install commands [08:34] Why does the onboard Ethernet on my server perform worse than a PCI card? [08:35] (internal Ethernet is an Intel e100-series Ethernet card, and the PCI card is a tulip-compatible Network Everywhere NE100. [08:35] oops, NC100 [08:40] Why would an onboard Intel Ethernet port be slower than a PCI tulip-compatible NIC in my server? [08:44] hi, do you know how to blacklist nf_nat_sip module ? [08:44] I tried through /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf in lucid but it is not blacklisted [08:45] I though I could rename the .ko but does not look like a clean soluce [08:45] any idea ? [09:10] <_Techie_> i have postfix and dovecot installed and working, but postfix doesnt seem to be accepting smtp from other IP's [09:35] morning [09:43] happy sysadmin day everyone :) [09:43] I'm working on a dell server with an idrac, when I use the virtualcd drive on the idrac it gets /dev/sda and the other disks are shifted accordingly so root is /dev/sdb all the sudden etc. Where (and how) should I confiugre udev so the virtual drive is always /dev/sdz? [09:44] a_ok: if you are referring to drives by letter, you have already lost [09:44] dynamic drive letter assignment is something that is only going to increase in the next decade [09:44] a_ok: use the UUID === lau is now known as Guest32798 [09:44] does kvm support UUID? [09:45] are you using raw disks with kvm? [09:45] yes [09:45] i'm going to anyway [09:46] google says it should work ... [09:46] I don't have kvm with raw disks, so I can't test from here... [09:46] man kvm [09:46] :) [09:46] and its bloody annoying anyway. one time when using fd i need to look at /dev/sda and the other time I have to look at /dev/sdc [09:50] hi [09:50] RoyK: I only see you can assign an uuid to a image not boot from it by uuid [09:50] how can i import gpg key to ubuntu server? [09:53] twb: It seems that I really need to be referring to drives by letter. perhaps in the future I will resolve the uuid to device file but for now I don't have a choice. so where do I put them rules? [09:53] a_ok: ok [09:54] I'm not sure, but perhaps it's possible to use udev to assign device names for sdx, like with network cards [09:59] Happy Sysadmin Day #ubuntu :) [10:01] I don't get why drive letter asignment should dissapear in the future === Guest32798 is now known as lau [11:34] hello all, is there a good place to head for apache info? [11:44] <_ruben> http://httpd.apache.org [11:46] NightDragon: #httpd [11:46] httpd == apache2? [11:47] nope [11:47] i can never get them straight... httpd, apache, apache 2.. prefork, postfork, @__@ [11:47] all the same ;) [11:47] I dunno postfork though [11:47] just prefork, peruser, worker, event [11:51] how can I get info by devicefile? [11:51] like bus type etc [12:07] RoyK: this is rediculous. I can change the device file name of that disk with udev rules. Problem is that the kernel makes sr0 out of it but also makes sda... so the blody thing has two device files [12:39] a_ok2: is it a drive or a cdrom? [12:40] RoyK: it's a virtual cdrom drive [12:41] then forget about sda [12:41] RoyK if it was that easy I would. problem is that it is active one time and not active the other time. so we have stuff moving around [12:50] hi [12:50] is there a way to backport php5.3 to Hardy 8.04 server ? [12:54] kaushal: probably, but it wouldn't be an easy task. try https://launchpad.net/~bd808/+archive/php5.3 [12:54] kaushal: otherwise, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=php5 [13:04] kaushal: it'll be quite easy, really. just apt-get source php5, extract the php5.3 source somewhere, copy the debian/ directory from the ubuntu php5.2.4 source, cd into the 5.3 source and dpkg-buildpackage [13:04] that should probably do it [13:05] ok [13:05] is that a recommended method ? [13:06] RoyK: let me check [13:08] hello [13:09] to have Json, should I just install php5-json on a Jaunty server ? [13:10] hello all [13:11] would apreciate some help, i can not seem to connect to my ubuntu server from a mac [13:11] PC works just fine... and so does netatalk [13:11] (AFP [13:11] but when i try to do CMD+K, and do SMB://server, it does not work [13:12] connection failed [13:12] any suggestions? [13:14] morning all === TeTeT_ is now known as TeTeT [13:14] * NightDragon swears he hears crickets [13:20] hey sommer ! [13:20] sommer: How are the doc's today? :) [13:21] cruisin, cruisin ;-) [13:24] sommer: \o/ [13:26] * NightDragon pokes someone [13:26] bump [13:27] NightDragon: Do you have a samba server running? [13:29] i was able to run [13:29] http server and mail server [13:29] which server should i learn to setup [13:30] i want to learn all [13:30] server setup [13:30] all? [13:30] I don't understand the question. [13:31] i mean what are the things i need to learn in ubuntu server? [13:31] That's... quite a task [13:31] !serverguide [13:31] The Ubuntu server guide may be found at http://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/ [13:31] like http server [13:31] or mail server [13:31] thats a long long list to learn [13:31] in do you apply all of those in your company? [13:32] silentwhisper: I only use what I need to use. [13:32] i want to learn what i need to learn and get a job [13:36] mathiaz, smoser, spamaps, zul: ping me when you are around [13:36] here [13:37] silentwhisper: I can't give you a list of what companies need you to learn. Start with httpd and some mail server, look at job listings to see what skills they require and learn those. [13:37] ttx, [13:38] smoser: yo, pm ? [13:39] #uscc [13:39] silentwhisper: what you need is a book [13:39] preferably from oreily [13:39] that gets into server administration [13:39] the best advice that i can give [13:40] is to install a linux distro (like Ubuntu ^_^), get _very_ comfortable with it, and then try to teach yourself server administration [13:41] silentwhisper: if your bash kung foo is not at least moderately strong, you wont be able to pass yourself off as a good sysadmin at interview, and even if you do... you wont be a good one and thats just not cool. [13:41] unix is something you need to gain expereince with, you cant just "read a webpage" and know it, like it was skype or something [13:42] i mean i cant say "you cant read the book"... because you kinda can, but if there was a singular book about *everything* you needed to know about unix administration, well it would be freaking huge. Like comically huge. [13:43] i've been using ubuntu/debian linux for 4+ years, and have done server administration for 1+ years, and i'm still learning a lot [13:45] 20+ with Solaris, Irix, BSD, SCO, Redhat, etc.. etc.. etc.. and still don't know everything [13:46] ohh how could I leave out HPUX still have systems out there running on it [13:46] * NightDragon shudders at the thought of redhat [13:46] seriously, i've been playing in debian land too long [13:46] i do need to learn redhat [13:47] NightDragon: why RHEL ...stick with debian/ubuntu :) [13:47] Well, for small business use it's good that you can put customers on their support license [13:49] Of course Solaris IMHO is still the most stable with the best support. [13:49] thesheff17: well aptitude is my homeboy, but it seems like a lot of jobs out there pretty much use RHEL/Solaris/Centos/Fedora [13:49] and hardware is nice. [13:49] solaris is great if you're into self-torture [13:49] personally I just stay away [13:49] Fedora-Core is nice [13:50] NightDragon: true...though get the job and then switch to all ubuntu/debian...that is what I did :) [13:50] Self-Torture? [13:50] I like ubuntu for personal use [13:50] My home network is 100% ubuntu [13:52] if you use the terminal most of the time RHEL and ubuntu are really not all the different. I also feel like the support RHEL provides just a database of fixes....basically ubuntu and google accomplish the same thing. [13:53] Well, but they also have phone support for $$$. I have a day job already, but do consulting on the side so I don't have time to do support [13:54] true have you used Canonical support? [13:54] No, I haven't any good? [13:55] hehe I haven't either.....I'm guessing they are pretty good [13:55] also I hate how RHEL has ES, AS, and all these different version and support contracts.... [13:56] Yeah, but the more corporate you get, the more your going to have to have that type of stuff [13:56] Hell, my primary vendor is Cisco. [13:56] and Sun [13:56] Talk about your different levels of support [13:56] hehe [13:56] Juniper is going the way of Cisco now [13:57] They are really getting some more market share [13:57] yea most of the data centers my company looked at used juniper over cisco [13:57] Who knows is Juniper can compete with Cisco (Not talking technical mind you) [13:57] Maybe someone someday will topple Microsoft :) [13:57] functionality & price are def on Juniper side [13:58] Yeah, their IOS IMO has always been more mature along with their hardware [13:58] They just didn't offer the same support Cisco did which turns off the big enterprises [13:59] For a long time Juniper didn't even have a proper lab for good regression testing and support testing [13:59] They have definately overcome that now [13:59] yea I work for a startup so paychecks come first technology comes second so I have to deal with what my budget is...basically 0 dollars :) [13:59] but they need to show the larger enterprises they are ready to play on the same level Cisco can [14:00] heh yeah [14:00] I got it nice, I work for AT&T Labs [14:00] nice [14:00] We get a couple buck here and there :) [14:01] hehe yea I'm sure ATT is huge [14:01] hehe need a linux admin ? :) [14:02] Not in labs, but I think corporate is hiring, but they are primary of HPUX and Sun shop [14:02] We have a lot of Linux, but Labs doesn't hire without a network engineer background [14:03] Mobility does a lot of Linux as well [14:03] well I'm not looking now but I will have a masters in March for information system security....so I'm sure I will be looking then. [14:04] heh, my degree was in Civil Engineering [14:04] You guys runs lots of virtual machines? [14:05] that was back in 89 though when CS degrees were IPX, SCO, and pretty much worthless [14:05] by 1995 [14:05] yea my old company has sco boxes [14:06] When I came to LABs in 97 we had a lot of SCO and HPUX [14:06] sucked [14:06] haha yea [14:06] We still have a lot of UX, I can't stand it [14:07] we had a sco box with an NTFS share mounted on a novel box...or the other way around...either way it broke and basically brought the business to a halt....spent 3 straight days fixing it. [14:07] and had to try to deal with sco getting a new version and it was a nightmware [14:07] I requested screen for a hopoff box that I use so when my VPN dies I can regain my session [14:07] haha [14:07] The admin told me it would be too much of a pain in the arse to install screen??? [14:08] really ??? [14:08] jeeze [14:08] That's UX for ya [14:08] Hey guys, I know this channel isn't getting a lot of questions right now, but its really not a discussion channel. Feel free to join #ubuntu-offtopic if you want to chat. [14:08] k [14:08] he ok [14:08] sorry got carried away [14:08] Its okay :) [14:14] Good morning. Does anybody know how to setup a radius server in Ubuntu? [14:14] oooh [14:15] "Good morning all, i want to build a space shuttle today. Can anyone help?" [14:15] might want to /join #nasa lol [14:15] lol [14:16] kimi_, in terms of?? Configuring the flat file or integrating it with PAM or something? [14:17] I want to receive the authentication of WPA clientes (wireless devices) [14:19] kimi_ it's been awhile, but essentially after you download radiusd, you will have a flatfile where you can point it to /etc/passwd or you can create the account with the flat file [14:19] the idea is that every client that connects to my wifi routers, do the authentication (using RADIUS) to a server in internet [14:19] kimi: what kind of network are you trying to set up? [14:19] Do you WIFI router support radius? [14:19] the network layout will be like this [14:19] the likely scenerio here is a dedicated RADIUS Server is _VERY_ overkill for anything less then enterprise setup [14:20] I will have 4 routers, all configures with wireless security WPA Enterprise (where you MUST specify a Radius) [14:20] not nessicarily [14:20] all the routers will connect to this Radius, and the radius will receive and handle autenthication [14:20] but yes with WPA2, you can use Radius [14:21] how many users are you planning on having connect to this net? [14:21] with WPA and WPA2 Enterprise (not Personal) y can use radius [14:21] yes, i know you can. How many users will be using this net? [14:21] I don't have now that number of users [14:21] ballpark it for me [14:21] but up to now I'm have if it works for 5 or 10 users [14:21] is this for a buissness? around 50 users or so? [14:21] kimi_ Best thing to do is go google some radius confiration example, there are a lot of ways to setup a radius configuration, as you can include access lists, times of access, type of auth etc.. [14:22] 5 or 10 users? man, for only 5 or 10 users you probably _REALLY_ dont need radius unless you really want it... i guess [14:22] I have downloaded using apt "xtradius" but it doesn't not handle WPA authentication and the wireless clients can not login [14:22] I want a prototype of 10 users, but it will have (I hope) thounsands [14:22] other then that just download and install radiusd and point your routers to it [14:23] thats because theres a lot more to it then that, kimi if you really want to go for it i can help you with it [14:23] your best way is probably router--> radius --> kerberos --> /etc/passwd (or mySQL DB, whatever) [14:23] kimi_ your router will not pass WPA to the radius server [14:23] thanks, It will be grate if you can help me [14:23] but first, what is this network going to be used for/ [14:23] LDAP, it good with radius as well [14:24] yeah, for thousands of users, LDAP would probably be best [14:24] well hold on guys [14:24] we have literally no idea what he's trying to do === lau is now known as Guest17167 [14:24] In the end, my idea is not only to obtain authentication using MySQL. I would like that the radius server calls a process passing information about the client that is connected. I want to know MAC address os the router, and mac address of the client . And I know that information gets into the server [14:24] LDAP could be a _really_ bad idea if he's trying to set up like a home or small buissness setup [14:25] NightDragon, he said thousands of users [14:25] what I know up to now [14:25] kimi_ you can pass that information is radius options [14:25] yeah [14:25] radius will handle that [14:25] yes, I know. what I could successfully do is setup XTRadius [14:26] to call a process when a Wifi clients wants to connect [14:26] New bug: #611695 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (main) "mysqlhotcopy produces error about log tables" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611695 [14:26] but then I said "login incorrect" [14:26] and I think that is because xtradius cannot handle WPA authentication [14:26] Ok, so you want radius to hit up a shell script? [14:27] kimi_, radius simply handles the authenticating process and such, you still need a backend database of users and passwords to authenticate against, and radius supports tons of them [14:27] yeah, wait a second [14:27] Not sure what WPA has to do with Radius..... [14:27] ok, I will ahve a backend, but not directly to MySQL, it will call a process first [14:27] here me out [14:27] anything from flat file and PAM to LDAP and mysql [14:27] Your router is either going to support radius for WPA or it's not [14:28] radius is radius [14:28] Daviey, ping [14:28] Your router is either going to send out a radius request for WPA auth or it's not [14:28] my router has a wireless authentication feature that is WPA Enterprise, where I must configure a RADIUS server [14:28] The router might just perform radius for console, aux, term, auth [14:29] what I found is that when I setup that, every client that wants to authenticate makes a call to the radius server [14:29] ok, yeah that make sense [14:29] but my actual radius server cannot authenticate wireless clients, only wired ones [14:29] radius, should not care [14:30] unless it's passing something that is not compliant to the server? [14:30] I have tested radtest from machines connected to LAN [14:30] and radius worked perfect [14:30] but from a wireless network it wont [14:30] it says "login incorrect" [14:30] yeah, the radius server won't care about that, so it must be an issue with the configuration/implementation of the clients requesting authentication [14:30] What radius server does your router vendor recommend? [14:30] and the same information (user, pass) from a lan machine works great. [14:30] smoser: o/ [14:30] not all radius servers are == [14:31] plenty of vendors use broken implementations [14:31] linksys (I have one with dd-wrt, another with the original firmware, and another with CoovaAP( and Apple Airport [14:31] all of them the same problem [14:31] I have had vendors that are compliant only with x radius server [14:31] I would be happy if it only works with linksys and cisco. [14:31] What are you encrypting the passwords with? [14:31] Yeah, could be a cleartext thing [14:32] or perhaps it on;y will do PAP/CHAP [14:32] with that much variation in hardware, you're going to want to set your radius server to accept pretty much any handshake method [14:32] yeah [14:33] Which needs cleartext backend [14:33] sorry [14:33] Yeah, but some router clients will only send pap/chap [14:33] I closed the wrong chat room [14:33] anyone really good with vmbuilder here? I have some weird things going on with it? [14:34] and depending on your radius server, some radius servers will only do cleartext or encryption [14:34] yes [14:34] I think that's the problem [14:34] xtradius is doing only cleartext and not handling the encryptation [14:35] that may be why I cannot connect wirelessclients correcly but yes using radtest [14:35] mmmm [14:35] Did the router vendor recommend a particular radius server? [14:35] I didn't found any recommend vendor. In the setup I only have the IP and port [14:35] and If I want WPA Enterprise or WP2 Enterprise [14:35] dd-wrt should support most anything [14:36] but a stock linksys is going to be much more limited [14:36] I don't know what they use [14:36] I could connect to radius with a stock linksys [14:36] I have tested 4 routers with different firmwares, all of them do the same [14:36] cleartext auth? [14:36] with the linksys? [14:37] in this case, a packet capture might be in order, to figure out exactly what's going on [14:37] Yeah, that would at least tell you if the radius request is sent in using cleartext or not [14:37] I have tested linksys with dd-wrt, coovaap, and stock firmware. all of them with WPA2 Enterprise to the same radius [14:37] neither of them could authenticate [14:37] Just because it's WPA doesn't mean radius is sending it encrypted [14:38] WPA is only encrypting the over-the-air communication [14:38] mm using wireshark and capturing what arrives to the radius port? [14:38] the radius authentication could be in cleartext or any number of handshake/encryption methods [14:38] oh I see [14:39] the first step is figuring out what method the router is attempting to use [14:39] and a packet capture might tell you, or would at least tell you cleartext versus encrypted [14:39] ok [14:39] exactly [14:39] I will do that with wireless and wired clients in order to compare [14:41] Sometime on the router, you can specify the method in the radius config as well [14:41] I know Cisco and Juniper you can [14:41] not sur eon Linksys [14:42] in the router when I select WPA2 Enterprise I can configure these parameters: radius ip, radius port, secret key, passfrhase and key 1 [14:42] yeah, sounds like it doesn't have the cleartext, or encryption option then [14:43] So you will need to sniff it as found out what it defaults to [14:43] Like we mentioned earlier at least you will know whether or not your dealing with cleartext or not [14:43] mathiaz_: yo [14:44] yes.and I will have to change the radius server in order to handle the encriptation or not [14:44] yup [14:44] how can I change that in radius? [14:44] mathiaz_: I'd need updated status on server-maverick-hadoop-pig and server-maverick-uds-seed-review for the release meeting [14:44] mathiaz_: looks like they are in bad shape [14:46] thanks to all of you. I will do the testing when energy come back to my office [14:46] Hello, I am using EC2 service and have installed Ubuntu Server 10.04 as described on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide page. I have allowed users to go to port 80 outside in EC2 panel. But I just can't start web app on port 80. I get this - http://pastie.org/1067075. Seems like some process is running on port 80. But I couldn't see any using 'sudo netstat -anp | grep 80' command. Any ideas? [14:46] now I'm connected to a 3G modem with the laptop [14:46] ttx: updating the BP now [14:47] Well, there are a couple places [14:47] for auth, lemme, see [14:47] If your doing for example [14:47] MSCHAP [14:47] authenticate { [14:47] [14:47] # [14:47] # MSCHAP authentication. [14:47] Auth-Type MS-CHAP { [14:47] mschap [14:47] } [14:47] [14:47] or Auth-Type cleartext { [14:51] ttx, do you know what kernel is used on the isos ? [14:52] ie, what does netboot/ubuntu-installer/amd64/{kernel,initrd.gz} on an iso come from "? [14:52]