[13:46] <stefandebacker> does anyone has experience with fat clients on edubuntu?
[15:33] <alkisg> stefandebacker: yes, any problems?
[15:33] <stefandebacker> not yet, i was just wondering if it works ok. Now I use self made thin clients (pentium 1 an 2 with 16 - 32 mb ram and no hard disk) with ubuntu
[15:34] <alkisg> Well, for LTSP thin client you'll need at least 64MB ram
[15:34] <stefandebacker> but because i read that multimedia works on fat clients, i was wondering
[15:34] <alkisg> And for fat clients, probably more than 500 MB
[15:34] <alkisg> (how are you even booting those thin clients? with windows 95?!)
[15:35] <stefandebacker> nog linux
[15:35] <stefandebacker> with a floppy :-D
[15:35] <stefandebacker> I really works quiet well
[15:35] <alkisg> which linux?
[15:36] <stefandebacker> hum, i have to check, its something i downloaded specially for turning a old pc into a thin client
[15:36] <alkisg> please do, I wonder what can still be used with 16mb except for deli linux
[15:37] <stefandebacker> well this works for sure, I use it at a school
[15:37] <stefandebacker> I have a quad core with 4 GB RAM and 500 GB hard disk as server
[15:37] <alkisg> ok, if it's easy, please check and tell me which distro that is
[15:38] <stefandebacker> and then the thin clients are all old pc's with only a videocard, floppy and network
[15:38] <stefandebacker> booting from this diskette
[15:38] <stefandebacker> we tested it with 40 clients, and it still works quiet well
[15:39] <stefandebacker> of course not for youtube, but firefox and openoffice are much better than with windows 98se on these machines
[15:40] <stefandebacker> but do you have experience with fat clients?
[15:41] <alkisg> Yes
[15:41] <alkisg> They work fine, like if they had local ubuntu
[15:41] <alkisg> And with gigabit network they're even faster
[15:41] <alkisg> E.g. a lab of mine boots in 13 secs as fat clients, and in 50 normally
[15:41] <stefandebacker> so you install a local ubuntu on it
[15:42] <alkisg> No, I had that from before installing fat clients, and I'm just doing a comparison
[15:43] <alkisg> They don't need to have local disks
[15:43] <stefandebacker> ah
[15:43] <stefandebacker> that's what i want
[15:43] <stefandebacker> and does youtube work?
[15:44] <alkisg> Youtube , google earth, games etc everything runs localy
[15:44] <alkisg> So, like if they were running locally (because that's what they do) :)
[15:44] <stefandebacker> but without hard disk
[15:44] <alkisg> Yes
[15:45] <alkisg> Fat clients == a networked disk and also authentication on the ltsp server, nothing more
[15:45] <stefandebacker> wich version of edubuntu do you use?
[15:45] <alkisg> ubuntu 10.04 on the server, and usually edubuntu 10.04 on the client disk
[15:45] <alkisg> (the virtual disk, the chroot, one for all clients)
[15:45] <stefandebacker> ah
[15:45] <stefandebacker> tried that, but that wouldn't work with old hardware
[15:46] <alkisg> Yes, fat clients == new hardware
[15:46] <alkisg> Otherwise it's not so fat :)
[15:46] <stefandebacker> it did with new hardware, but not with old thin clients
[15:46] <alkisg> I'm using mixed labs
[15:46] <stefandebacker> 2 servers?
[15:46] <alkisg> Everything with < 300 mb ram boots as thin, and with > 300 mb ram as fat
[15:46] <alkisg> No, on the same server, with the same chroot
[15:46] <stefandebacker> that's my plan to
[15:46] <stefandebacker> hum
[15:46] <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
[15:47] <alkisg> That should get you started, and ask whatever you can't get to work there
[15:47] <stefandebacker> what is your oldest thin client?
[15:50] <alkisg> AMD K6 300 MHz
[15:50] <stefandebacker> i found the diskette. Its http://www.rom-o-matic.net
[15:50] <alkisg> stefandebacker: that isn't a linux version
[15:50] <stefandebacker> there you can download the image for your network card
[15:50] <stefandebacker> no?
[15:50] <alkisg> No. I already use that.
[15:50] <alkisg> You can't boot 16 MB clients with current ubuntu versions
[15:51] <alkisg> Not even 32MB clients
[15:51] <stefandebacker> not with current
[15:51] <alkisg> gpxe (that in rom-o-matic) is just a network boot loader
[15:51] <stefandebacker> I had to use 7.10
[15:51] <alkisg> It's not an OS
[15:51] <alkisg> I don't think 7.10 works with 16 RAM either
[15:51] <stefandebacker> it does
[15:51] <alkisg> If I remember correctly, 64MB were needed back then too.
[15:51] <stefandebacker> it works here
[15:51] <alkisg> Maybe your clients have 64MB RAM?
[15:52] <stefandebacker> no
[15:52] <stefandebacker> clients 16 - 32 mb
[15:52] <alkisg> Are you using LTSP with 7.10?
[15:52] <stefandebacker> server 4 GB
[15:52] <stefandebacker> yes
[15:52] <alkisg> What ltsp version is that? dpkg -l ltsp-server
[15:53] <stefandebacker> 5.0.40
[15:53] <stefandebacker> but it doesn't support new hardware
[15:54] <alkisg> I tried booting clients with < 64MB RAM with Ubuntu 7.10, and it wasn't possible, so I wonder why it works for you...
[15:54] <alkisg> (actually, the kernel needs at least 48MB)
[15:54] <alkisg> So you must be using something else, but I can't imaging what
[15:54] <stefandebacker> the booting is rather slow (2 - 3 minutes) but after that it works good enough
[15:55] <stefandebacker> i started from the edubuntu 7.10
[15:55] <alkisg> With 48MB I was getting kernel panic, they wouldn't boot
[15:55] <alkisg> I started with edubuntu 7.04...
[15:56] <alkisg> I could get them to boot with other methods, e.g. deli linux, thinclientos etc, but not with LTSP 5 (that in edubuntu 7.04)
[15:56] <stefandebacker> I also seem to remember getting a kernel pannick
[15:56] <stefandebacker> i changed something in the ltsp.conf i think
[15:56] <alkisg> NBD_SWAP=true, but that's not enough
[15:57] <alkisg> They still wouldn't boot for me with anything less than 64MB RAM
[15:57] <alkisg> (both in 7.04, 7.10, 8.04, 8.10, 9.04, 9.10 and 10.04)
[15:57] <alkisg> Anyway
[16:00] <stefandebacker> edubuntu server 7.10 i368 is the oldest i have, so it had to have been this one
[16:00] <stefandebacker> ah i know
[16:00] <stefandebacker> i compiled it with "old hardware" setting
[16:01] <alkisg> Compiled what? The chroot kernel?
[16:01] <stefandebacker> no the image of the thin client
[16:02] <alkisg> There's no such option in LTSP 5
[16:02] <alkisg> Maybe you somehow used LTSP 4?
[16:02] <stefandebacker> it's a long time ago,
[16:02] <alkisg> If it really works with LTSP 5, it's a major success
[16:02] <alkisg> I've never heard anyone doing that
[16:02] <stefandebacker> it must have been something
[16:03] <alkisg> 64MB RAM is the lowest client limit - nowadays people even suggest 256 MB
[16:03] <alkisg> *as the lower limit
[16:03] <stefandebacker> but I am sorry i don't rember what
[16:03] <highvoltage> heh, last night stgraber complained that his thin client only has 512 MB :)
[16:03] <alkisg> So if you were able to do it with LTSP 5, we should put your method upstream, for others to benefit from it :)
[16:04] <stefandebacker> maybe I started with 6.06 and upgraded it to 7.10 (I found my installation log of 2007)
[16:04] <alkisg> stefandebacker: is it possible to upload your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp directory somewhere?
[16:04] <alkisg> The kernels there are the most important thing to manage booting with 16 RAM
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1696312 2007-10-15 03:35 vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  803541 2007-10-15 03:35 System.map-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   75391 2007-10-15 03:35 config-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  420774 2007-10-15 03:35 abi-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1904248 2008-04-10 18:51 vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  899892 2008-04-10 18:51 System.map-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   79964 2008-04-10 18:51 config-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  422607 2008-04-10 18:51 abi-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6132278 2010-01-29 19:59 nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4438038 2010-01-29 19:59 initrd.img-2.6.22-14-386.bak
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4438033 2010-01-29 20:00 initrd.img-2.6.22-14-386
[16:07] <stefandebacker> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root    4096 2010-01-29 20:00 ../
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root     369 2010-01-30 16:44 lts.conf
[16:07] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4518675 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic.bak
[16:08] <stefandebacker> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6417787 2010-03-04 18:17 nbi.img-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:08] <stefandebacker> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      25 2010-03-04 18:17 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:08] <stefandebacker> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      25 2010-03-04 18:17 nbi.img -> nbi.img-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:08] <stefandebacker> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4518671 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:08] <stefandebacker> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      28 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img -> initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic
[16:08] <stefandebacker> can this help?
[16:09] <highvoltage> a kernel is also a dangerous thing to have chmod 777'd :)
[16:09] <stefandebacker> I will change it
[16:12] <alkisg> Hmm, no, it doesn't really help (we'd need to boot it to see), it just says it's a recent kernel which shouldn't be able to boot with anything less than 64 mb :-/
[16:12] <alkisg> So I've no idea how it's possible to boot that with 16mb..
[16:12] <alkisg> highvoltage: 777 are the symlinks only
[16:14] <highvoltage> alkisg: ah
[16:15] <alkisg> stefandebacker: maybe that "16 MB" that you see is the VideoRAM number?
[16:15] <stefandebacker> no
[16:15] <stefandebacker> sure not
[16:16] <stefandebacker> i put in the rams myself
[16:16] <stefandebacker> the videocard has 2 mb ram
[16:16] <alkisg> Really, really strange. I wish I could see for myself how you managed to do it.
[16:17] <stefandebacker> hihi
[16:17] <alkisg> :)
[16:17] <stefandebacker> i know that i started from an old edubuntu server, because the new ones didn't work on the old software
[16:18] <stefandebacker> but i wasn't able to make one that would support old and new hardware
[16:18] <stefandebacker> i tried it. And the old server wouldn't boot new thin clients
[16:19] <stefandebacker> and the new edubuntu wouldn't boot the old ones
[16:21] <stefandebacker> i did change the /etc/apt/sources.lst
[16:23] <stefandebacker> and added this:
[16:23] <stefandebacker> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy  main restricted multiverse universe
[16:23] <stefandebacker> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy-security  main restricted multiverse universe
[16:23] <stefandebacker> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy-updates  main restricted multiverse universe
[16:23] <stefandebacker> before update and upgrade
[16:24] <stefandebacker> according to my personal log: this is the cd I downloaded http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/gutsy/
[16:25] <alkisg> OK, all that sounds right, I can't tell you how to fix something that wasn't supposed to be working on the first place :D
[16:25] <alkisg> I.e. I don't know of *any* (ed)ubuntu version that would boot with 16 RAM
[16:25] <alkisg> ...and yes, older kernels don't see new hardware
[16:26] <alkisg> So if I were you I wouldn't even try to upgrade anything, ever :D Those clients won't boot with anything recent
[16:26] <alkisg> For new clients, with > 300 MB RAM etc, ok, you can boot them as fat clients
[16:27] <stefandebacker> think I know what happened
[16:27] <stefandebacker> it was the network card
[16:27] <stefandebacker> that gave me the kernel pannick
[16:28] <stefandebacker> and I also got it with a sertain video card
[16:32] <stefandebacker> a SiS card I think it was
[16:44] <alkisg> Sure, network and graphics cards can cause kernel panics, but that wasn't my problem, I tried with a very big number of clients. Booting with any less than 64 MB just wasn't possible for me.
[16:51] <stefandebacker> don't worry about it, I think I am the only one in belgium anyway, that uses these old computers till the bitter end,
[16:52] <stefandebacker> there should be a low against people who run a computer on less than 64mb anyway
[16:52]  * alkisg has 2-3 labs here with 32mb, that's why he was interested..
[16:52] <alkisg> They work with win95 currently
[16:52] <stefandebacker> ola
[16:53] <stefandebacker> that's really old
[16:53] <alkisg> Well, with 32mb you can't boot windows 2000...
[16:53] <stefandebacker> i rather have linux
[16:53] <alkisg> (don't tell me you also booted XP with 16mb?! :D)
[16:53] <stefandebacker> no
[16:54] <alkisg> Sure, me too, but no linux works with such low ram
[16:54] <stefandebacker> well i am surely glad it does here
[16:55] <alkisg> (that's why I was asking so many questions, to see if it was something I could replicate)
[16:56] <stefandebacker> maybe you can try starting from edubuntu 6
[16:56] <alkisg> I don't think so, ogra straggled to lower the LTSP 5 RAM limit to 64MB
[16:56] <alkisg> So it was *higher* before gutsy
[16:57] <alkisg> I've heard LTSP 4.2 working with 32MB RAM, but noone installs this anymore, it's been unmaintained for ages
[16:57] <stefandebacker> can i see my version of ltsp somewhere?
[16:58] <alkisg> dpkg -l ltsp-server, the one above
[16:58] <alkisg> So you have 5.0.40
[16:58] <stefandebacker> ah
[16:58] <stefandebacker> 5
[16:58] <stefandebacker> bzr20080212-0ubuntu7
[16:59] <stefandebacker> Basic LTSP server environment
[16:59] <alkisg> The only thing that would help is a zip of your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 directory, to try to see if actually that kernels boots with 16 mb
[16:59] <alkisg> (or if you are not even using that kernel, and are booting with some other method)
[16:59] <stefandebacker> does this hold any passwords?
[16:59] <alkisg> No
[16:59] <stefandebacker> youre 100% sure its absolutely safe?
[16:59] <alkisg> You can skip lts.conf if you don't want to share it (or check yourself if you wrote something there)
[17:00] <alkisg> Yes, the kernel and the initramfs don't have anything from the user
[17:00] <alkisg> Only lts.conf may contain passwords, if you put them there
[17:02] <stefandebacker> one moment
[17:04] <stefandebacker> where do you want it?
[17:18] <Utrinqueparatus> does anyone have any experience with using edubuntu with a touchscreen?
[17:26] <alkisg> stefandebacker: anywhere would do, e.g. rapidshare, and PM me with the link
[17:29] <Utrinqueparatus> i didnt realise anyone used rapidshare since their crazy rapidpoints scheme
[17:58] <alkisg> Feel free to use whatever you want
[17:59] <alkisg> Ah sorry I thought that was stefandebacker, ignore the answer
[18:00] <Utrinqueparatus> its ok was just sticking my oar in anyway
[18:24] <Utrinqueparatus> what packages in edubuntu are best aimed at pre-school users?