[13:46] does anyone has experience with fat clients on edubuntu? [15:33] stefandebacker: yes, any problems? [15:33] not yet, i was just wondering if it works ok. Now I use self made thin clients (pentium 1 an 2 with 16 - 32 mb ram and no hard disk) with ubuntu [15:34] Well, for LTSP thin client you'll need at least 64MB ram [15:34] but because i read that multimedia works on fat clients, i was wondering [15:34] And for fat clients, probably more than 500 MB [15:34] (how are you even booting those thin clients? with windows 95?!) [15:35] nog linux [15:35] with a floppy :-D [15:35] I really works quiet well [15:35] which linux? [15:36] hum, i have to check, its something i downloaded specially for turning a old pc into a thin client [15:36] please do, I wonder what can still be used with 16mb except for deli linux [15:37] well this works for sure, I use it at a school [15:37] I have a quad core with 4 GB RAM and 500 GB hard disk as server [15:37] ok, if it's easy, please check and tell me which distro that is [15:38] and then the thin clients are all old pc's with only a videocard, floppy and network [15:38] booting from this diskette [15:38] we tested it with 40 clients, and it still works quiet well [15:39] of course not for youtube, but firefox and openoffice are much better than with windows 98se on these machines [15:40] but do you have experience with fat clients? [15:41] Yes [15:41] They work fine, like if they had local ubuntu [15:41] And with gigabit network they're even faster [15:41] E.g. a lab of mine boots in 13 secs as fat clients, and in 50 normally [15:41] so you install a local ubuntu on it [15:42] No, I had that from before installing fat clients, and I'm just doing a comparison [15:43] They don't need to have local disks [15:43] ah [15:43] that's what i want [15:43] and does youtube work? [15:44] Youtube , google earth, games etc everything runs localy [15:44] So, like if they were running locally (because that's what they do) :) [15:44] but without hard disk [15:44] Yes [15:45] Fat clients == a networked disk and also authentication on the ltsp server, nothing more [15:45] wich version of edubuntu do you use? [15:45] ubuntu 10.04 on the server, and usually edubuntu 10.04 on the client disk [15:45] (the virtual disk, the chroot, one for all clients) [15:45] ah [15:45] tried that, but that wouldn't work with old hardware [15:46] Yes, fat clients == new hardware [15:46] Otherwise it's not so fat :) [15:46] it did with new hardware, but not with old thin clients [15:46] I'm using mixed labs [15:46] 2 servers? [15:46] Everything with < 300 mb ram boots as thin, and with > 300 mb ram as fat [15:46] No, on the same server, with the same chroot [15:46] that's my plan to [15:46] hum [15:46] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients [15:47] That should get you started, and ask whatever you can't get to work there [15:47] what is your oldest thin client? [15:50] AMD K6 300 MHz [15:50] i found the diskette. Its http://www.rom-o-matic.net [15:50] stefandebacker: that isn't a linux version [15:50] there you can download the image for your network card [15:50] no? [15:50] No. I already use that. [15:50] You can't boot 16 MB clients with current ubuntu versions [15:51] Not even 32MB clients [15:51] not with current [15:51] gpxe (that in rom-o-matic) is just a network boot loader [15:51] I had to use 7.10 [15:51] It's not an OS [15:51] I don't think 7.10 works with 16 RAM either [15:51] it does [15:51] If I remember correctly, 64MB were needed back then too. [15:51] it works here [15:51] Maybe your clients have 64MB RAM? [15:52] no [15:52] clients 16 - 32 mb [15:52] Are you using LTSP with 7.10? [15:52] server 4 GB [15:52] yes [15:52] What ltsp version is that? dpkg -l ltsp-server [15:53] 5.0.40 [15:53] but it doesn't support new hardware [15:54] I tried booting clients with < 64MB RAM with Ubuntu 7.10, and it wasn't possible, so I wonder why it works for you... [15:54] (actually, the kernel needs at least 48MB) [15:54] So you must be using something else, but I can't imaging what [15:54] the booting is rather slow (2 - 3 minutes) but after that it works good enough [15:55] i started from the edubuntu 7.10 [15:55] With 48MB I was getting kernel panic, they wouldn't boot [15:55] I started with edubuntu 7.04... [15:56] I could get them to boot with other methods, e.g. deli linux, thinclientos etc, but not with LTSP 5 (that in edubuntu 7.04) [15:56] I also seem to remember getting a kernel pannick [15:56] i changed something in the ltsp.conf i think [15:56] NBD_SWAP=true, but that's not enough [15:57] They still wouldn't boot for me with anything less than 64MB RAM [15:57] (both in 7.04, 7.10, 8.04, 8.10, 9.04, 9.10 and 10.04) [15:57] Anyway [16:00] edubuntu server 7.10 i368 is the oldest i have, so it had to have been this one [16:00] ah i know [16:00] i compiled it with "old hardware" setting [16:01] Compiled what? The chroot kernel? [16:01] no the image of the thin client [16:02] There's no such option in LTSP 5 [16:02] Maybe you somehow used LTSP 4? [16:02] it's a long time ago, [16:02] If it really works with LTSP 5, it's a major success [16:02] I've never heard anyone doing that [16:02] it must have been something [16:03] 64MB RAM is the lowest client limit - nowadays people even suggest 256 MB [16:03] *as the lower limit [16:03] but I am sorry i don't rember what [16:03] heh, last night stgraber complained that his thin client only has 512 MB :) [16:03] So if you were able to do it with LTSP 5, we should put your method upstream, for others to benefit from it :) [16:04] maybe I started with 6.06 and upgraded it to 7.10 (I found my installation log of 2007) [16:04] stefandebacker: is it possible to upload your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp directory somewhere? [16:04] The kernels there are the most important thing to manage booting with 16 RAM [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1696312 2007-10-15 03:35 vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 803541 2007-10-15 03:35 System.map-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 75391 2007-10-15 03:35 config-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 420774 2007-10-15 03:35 abi-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1904248 2008-04-10 18:51 vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 899892 2008-04-10 18:51 System.map-2.6.24-16-generic [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79964 2008-04-10 18:51 config-2.6.24-16-generic [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 422607 2008-04-10 18:51 abi-2.6.24-16-generic [16:07] -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6132278 2010-01-29 19:59 nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4438038 2010-01-29 19:59 initrd.img-2.6.22-14-386.bak [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4438033 2010-01-29 20:00 initrd.img-2.6.22-14-386 [16:07] drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2010-01-29 20:00 ../ [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 369 2010-01-30 16:44 lts.conf [16:07] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4518675 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic.bak [16:08] -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6417787 2010-03-04 18:17 nbi.img-2.6.24-16-generic [16:08] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-03-04 18:17 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic [16:08] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 2010-03-04 18:17 nbi.img -> nbi.img-2.6.24-16-generic [16:08] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4518671 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic [16:08] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 2010-03-04 18:17 initrd.img -> initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic [16:08] can this help? [16:09] a kernel is also a dangerous thing to have chmod 777'd :) [16:09] I will change it [16:12] Hmm, no, it doesn't really help (we'd need to boot it to see), it just says it's a recent kernel which shouldn't be able to boot with anything less than 64 mb :-/ [16:12] So I've no idea how it's possible to boot that with 16mb.. [16:12] highvoltage: 777 are the symlinks only [16:14] alkisg: ah [16:15] stefandebacker: maybe that "16 MB" that you see is the VideoRAM number? [16:15] no [16:15] sure not [16:16] i put in the rams myself [16:16] the videocard has 2 mb ram [16:16] Really, really strange. I wish I could see for myself how you managed to do it. [16:17] hihi [16:17] :) [16:17] i know that i started from an old edubuntu server, because the new ones didn't work on the old software [16:18] but i wasn't able to make one that would support old and new hardware [16:18] i tried it. And the old server wouldn't boot new thin clients [16:19] and the new edubuntu wouldn't boot the old ones [16:21] i did change the /etc/apt/sources.lst [16:23] and added this: [16:23] deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy main restricted multiverse universe [16:23] deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy-security main restricted multiverse universe [16:23] deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy-updates main restricted multiverse universe [16:23] before update and upgrade [16:24] according to my personal log: this is the cd I downloaded http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/gutsy/ [16:25] OK, all that sounds right, I can't tell you how to fix something that wasn't supposed to be working on the first place :D [16:25] I.e. I don't know of *any* (ed)ubuntu version that would boot with 16 RAM [16:25] ...and yes, older kernels don't see new hardware [16:26] So if I were you I wouldn't even try to upgrade anything, ever :D Those clients won't boot with anything recent [16:26] For new clients, with > 300 MB RAM etc, ok, you can boot them as fat clients [16:27] think I know what happened [16:27] it was the network card [16:27] that gave me the kernel pannick [16:28] and I also got it with a sertain video card [16:32] a SiS card I think it was [16:44] Sure, network and graphics cards can cause kernel panics, but that wasn't my problem, I tried with a very big number of clients. Booting with any less than 64 MB just wasn't possible for me. [16:51] don't worry about it, I think I am the only one in belgium anyway, that uses these old computers till the bitter end, [16:52] there should be a low against people who run a computer on less than 64mb anyway [16:52] * alkisg has 2-3 labs here with 32mb, that's why he was interested.. [16:52] They work with win95 currently [16:52] ola [16:53] that's really old [16:53] Well, with 32mb you can't boot windows 2000... [16:53] i rather have linux [16:53] (don't tell me you also booted XP with 16mb?! :D) [16:53] no [16:54] Sure, me too, but no linux works with such low ram [16:54] well i am surely glad it does here [16:55] (that's why I was asking so many questions, to see if it was something I could replicate) [16:56] maybe you can try starting from edubuntu 6 [16:56] I don't think so, ogra straggled to lower the LTSP 5 RAM limit to 64MB [16:56] So it was *higher* before gutsy [16:57] I've heard LTSP 4.2 working with 32MB RAM, but noone installs this anymore, it's been unmaintained for ages [16:57] can i see my version of ltsp somewhere? [16:58] dpkg -l ltsp-server, the one above [16:58] So you have 5.0.40 [16:58] ah [16:58] 5 [16:58] bzr20080212-0ubuntu7 [16:59] Basic LTSP server environment [16:59] The only thing that would help is a zip of your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 directory, to try to see if actually that kernels boots with 16 mb [16:59] (or if you are not even using that kernel, and are booting with some other method) [16:59] does this hold any passwords? [16:59] No [16:59] youre 100% sure its absolutely safe? [16:59] You can skip lts.conf if you don't want to share it (or check yourself if you wrote something there) [17:00] Yes, the kernel and the initramfs don't have anything from the user [17:00] Only lts.conf may contain passwords, if you put them there [17:02] one moment [17:04] where do you want it? [17:18] does anyone have any experience with using edubuntu with a touchscreen? [17:26] stefandebacker: anywhere would do, e.g. rapidshare, and PM me with the link [17:29] i didnt realise anyone used rapidshare since their crazy rapidpoints scheme [17:58] Feel free to use whatever you want [17:59] Ah sorry I thought that was stefandebacker, ignore the answer [18:00] its ok was just sticking my oar in anyway [18:24] what packages in edubuntu are best aimed at pre-school users?