/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/03/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== starcraft is now known as starcraftman
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
TheHorsescreen -list08:42
zkriesseg'day all11:00
nisshhzkriesse: hey11:00
zkriesseHello nisshh11:00
wershello11:00
nisshhwers: hey, you one of the other guys going for membership tonight?11:01
wersnisshh, yep11:01
nisshhwers: same with me :)11:01
ejatgday all11:01
wersnisshh, good luck to us :)11:01
nisshhwers: yea :)11:02
lifelesshi11:04
zkriessehello lifeless11:04
nisshhwers: isnt the meeting supposed to be now?11:04
wersnisshh, I think, it is11:05
nisshhlifeless: hey11:05
nisshhwers: i wonder where vantrax is, he is usually the one doing it11:05
ejatnisshh: vantrax not very well ..11:06
nisshhejat: ah, do we know who is doing the meeting then?11:06
ejatlifeless: will u chair the meeting ? or elky ?11:07
lifelessejat: I'm barely conscious;) I plead jetlag from the platform rally11:07
zkriesseargh11:07
ejatlifeless: :)11:07
* ejat pokes elky11:07
nisshhejat: are there enough people from the membership board here to actually have the meeting?11:09
lifelessnisshh: we'll know in a bit11:10
nisshhlifeless: right11:10
zkriessepatience ya'll11:10
* nisshh doesnt have much :)11:10
* nisshh is too excited11:10
* quail has to have suppa soon11:10
nisshhquail: dont let me keep you here11:11
nisshh:)11:11
quailo.011:11
lifelesshmmm11:20
zkriessehmm11:20
lifelesswho here is on the board ?11:21
lifeless20 minutes in we should either call it or do it11:21
zkriesseI'm not on the board but I'm a member if that helps at all11:21
lifelessit doesn't,  but thanks.11:21
zkriesseYeah I know11:21
* zkriesse cheers for the applicants11:21
nisshh:)11:21
wersyey.haha11:21
* ejat lifeless and elky ? = 311:22
nisshhhavent heard from elky yet11:22
zkriesseWhat the hell happened to Vantrax?11:23
nisshhzkriesse: sick apparently11:23
zkriesseAh11:24
* zkriesse hates colds and such11:24
nisshhhe was probably like "oh no, nisshh is going for membership *play dead*"11:24
zkriesselol11:24
* nisshh hopes vantrax doesnt read the logs after that....11:25
quailheh11:25
zkriesseHe probably will11:25
zkriesseAnd he'll laugh like no tomorrow11:25
nisshhyea, hehe :)11:25
nisshhNOTE TO VANTRAX: IT WAS A JOKE :)11:26
zkriesseROFLMAO11:26
quailnisshh: sorry mate my suppa is on the table11:26
nisshhquail: its cool, plenty of others here, thanks for coming for part of it anyway :)11:27
quailnisshh: np11:28
nisshh:)11:28
wersuhmm..11:29
nisshhwers: what is it?11:31
wersnisshh, does this mean that we'll postpone?11:32
nisshhwers: no idea atm11:32
nisshhejat: whats happening dude?11:32
nisshhlifeless: ^^^11:32
ejatlifeless: ? looks like .. seem it not enough quorum11:33
lifelessI think so11:33
lifelessejat: only what, 3 of us here?11:33
nisshhpostponed?11:33
lifelessnot quorum11:33
lifelesssorry, not quorate11:33
nisshhejat: are you postponing or what?11:36
ejatlifeless: ya call ?11:37
* thorwil comes back from lunch and cheers for nisshh and wers, quorum or not11:39
wershi thorwil ! :)11:39
nisshhyay thorwil!11:39
lifelessejat: I think we should call it11:40
lifelessejat: d you want to mail the list ?11:40
mc44it's a shame whoever's idea it was to have big regional membership boards to make it more likely people would turn up didn't also think to point out that sticking to a rigid quorum rather defeats the object ;(11:40
lifelessmc44: its not that the quorum is that rigid11:41
lifelessand we can, and do pull in other board members11:42
lifelessits that there are only 2 of us around tonight, for whatever reason.11:42
nisshhlifeless: so postponed im guessing?11:42
lifelessyes11:42
nisshhoh well, when is the next meeting likely to be lifeless ?11:42
lifeless2 weeks11:42
lifelessfor this board11:43
nisshhok11:43
wersokay. see you11:43
nisshhso me and wers will get to have another go then im guessing?11:43
ejatnisshh: yups ..11:44
nisshhejat: ok, hopefully there will be enough board members the next time :)11:46
ejatnisshh: yeah .. i hope so ..11:46
nisshhheh11:46
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loellhas the meeting done already? didn't make it in time. and the logs doesn't show much.11:58
ejatloell: the meeting got postpone12:05
loellI see, thanks ejat :)12:11
ejatwelcome ..12:11
elkySorry. Was commuting. Stayed back a bit later than I meant to.12:27
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
NCommander#startmeering14:00
davidmG'day NCommander14:00
NCommander#startmeeting14:00
MootBotMeeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.14:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:00
NCommandermornign davidm14:00
dyfetmorning NCommander14:00
NCommander[topic] Rollcar14:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Rollcar14:00
NCommander[topic] Roll call14:00
NCommanderwow14:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll call14:00
NCommanderI need caffiene14:00
NCommanderwho's here?14:01
mpoiriermpoirier14:01
* GrueMaster 14:01
NCommanderogra: ping?14:02
ograyep14:02
NCommanderok, good14:02
lago/14:02
NCommander[topic]] Acion Item Review14:02
MootBotNew Topic: ] Acion Item Review14:02
NCommander[topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer14:03
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer14:03
NCommanderoh14:03
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100803#preview14:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100803#preview14:03
NCommander[topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer14:03
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer14:03
NCommanderc/o14:03
NCommander[topic] ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session14:04
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session14:04
ogradone14:04
ograwell14:04
NCommandercool14:04
ograthe package is in the seeds, still needs adjustments of the settings14:05
ograbut i cant test build any images atm14:05
NCommander[topic] mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source14:05
MootBotNew Topic:  mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source14:05
ogrampoirier, ?14:06
mpoirieryes14:06
ograthe above was your topic (even though your name is spelled wrong)14:06
ogradone or carry over ?14:06
mpoirierhold on.14:07
mpoirierI got in touch with TI.14:07
mpoiriervery hard to get image.14:07
mpoiriergot git tree14:07
ograah, great14:07
mpoirierrecompiled but can't get to the same result.14:07
ograhow did you recompile ?14:07
ogranative or cross ?14:07
mpoiriercross.14:08
ograthat might be an issue14:08
mpoirieryes i know.14:08
* ogra would recommend a native build14:08
mpoiriergiven the facts, i doubt it will ever be possible to get to the same image.14:08
mpoirierwas a very loose process at the time @ TI14:08
mpoirierplaced this on hold.14:09
NCommanderok, c/oked14:09
NCommandercan I move on?14:09
mpoirierI've started looking at power management and effect on SDHC card.14:09
ograi think lag did the same today14:09
ograsitting in fron ogf his unbootable XM :)14:10
lag:(14:10
mpoiriercurrently, CONFIG_CPU_IDLE and CONFIG_SRAM_IDLE configs are removing hte problem.14:10
mpoiriernarrowed it down to Power management 'governors' .14:10
mpoirierthey are power management algorithms.14:10
mpoirierstill investigating.14:11
mpoirier...14:11
ograthey are also needed by tools like iotop14:11
ogra(the above settings)14:11
mpoirierboth are not set in upstream14:11
mpoirierI've reproduced the problem in upstream by enabling the flags.14:12
ograright, but try to fire up iotop on a beagle14:12
mpoirierit is not only isolated to ubuntu's code base.14:12
NCommandercan you twotake it offline and report back?14:12
ograwould be good to have that ability at some point before final release14:12
ograto research the SD slowness issues in userspace14:12
ograNCommander, yeah, move on14:13
rsalvetiyep, it's important for beagle14:13
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html14:13
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html14:13
ograNCommander, what about your items, can you either implement or postpone them?14:13
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpa-3.html14:13
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpa-3.html14:13
ograand why is that the wrong link again14:13
ograi thought we updated the agenda a while ago14:13
ograah14:13
NCommanderogra: I will postpone them14:13
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpha-3.html14:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpha-3.html14:14
ograNCommander, is it likely that you get to them ?14:14
ografor this release ?14:14
ograif so, please dont postpone but milestone against beta14:14
NCommanderogra: yes, since we're going to need them, but A3 will likely slide14:14
ograk14:14
ograthen dont postpone, just move them to beta14:14
NCommanderwill do14:15
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)14:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)14:15
cooloneyyeah14:15
lag* Marvel (mvl-dove)14:15
lag   * GIT PULL : GIT PULL has been sent out for review14:15
lag   * PATCH    : 92 delta patches have been identified and rebased on top of our mvl-dove tip14:15
lag   * MISC     : Received update from Marvell for Dove LSP 5.3.214:15
lag * Freescale (fsl-imx51)14:15
lag   * MISC     : Freescale are helping to figure out the root cause of the bricked boards14:15
lag   * PATCH    : We have a patch to fix a PMIC issue. Related to above14:15
lag * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)14:15
lag   * GIT PULL : TIs pull request has been rejected by rtg due to coding style issues14:15
lag   * PATCH    : 240+ patches received from TI. Fully tested and works fine14:15
lag   * ON GOING : B591941 disabling CONFIG_CPU_FREQ and CONFIG_CPU_IDLE cures the issue14:15
lag   * WONT FIX : B571663 this hardware is not supported by us and we have no spare time to help14:15
lag..14:15
ogralooks good14:17
ograNCommander, ?14:17
ogralag, oh14:17
lag?14:17
ograwhat about the patches from rcn-ee ?14:17
ograwill you include them ?14:17
lagWhat patches?14:17
ograthe ones we discussed this morning ?14:18
lagI haven't even looked14:18
lagDidn't he say they were unfixed?14:18
lagfinished*14:18
ograwell, the one that makes the mmc RW surely is ok to at least get someting out of  the XMs14:18
lagHe said he still has cleaning up to do14:19
lagI don't want to put dirty patches into our kernel14:19
ograi want to be able to use our hardware :)14:20
lagThen add the patches yourself ;)14:20
lagWhere is the bug?14:20
ograif we start testing XMs by beta there is not much we can fix anymore14:20
ograi'm waiting for new images, then i'll file a bug14:20
lagI can't do a lot until you do14:21
lagWhen you do, assign me and I'll get it done14:21
lag..14:21
ogralag, though rcn-ee is a very valuable source for fixes wrt omap314:21
lagI've noticed14:21
ograk14:21
ograNCommander, move ?14:21
ograNCommander, HELLO!14:23
ograNCommander, HELLO?14:24
ograNCommander, did you fall asleep ?14:26
ograhrm14:26
GrueMasterI pinged his cell.14:27
GrueMasterIn the mean time, QA Status.14:27
GrueMasterBugs needing attention before A3:14:27
GrueMasterBug #605972 - Need to set hostname to ubuntu during first boot.14:27
GrueMasterBug #600359 - ureadahead generating oom messages during boot.14:27
GrueMasterBug #605831 - [omap3] Resolution should be taken from /proc/cmdline if provided14:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 605972 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Need to set hostname to ubuntu during first boot." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60597214:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60035914:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 605831 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Resolution should be taken from /proc/cmdline if provided" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60583114:27
ogra605972 doesnt really need attention14:28
ograthats just cosmetic14:28
rsalvetiyep14:28
GrueMasterThese are currently targetted for Alpha 3.14:28
ogranot sure what to do about 60035914:29
GrueMasterThat's why I am mentioning them.14:29
ograyeah, thanks14:29
rsalvetiureadahead always gives oom, still going to test on my c4 and try to trace why14:29
rsalvetiprobably it's trying to allocate a big chunk of memory14:30
lagIsn't bug 600359 fixed?14:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60035914:30
ograrsalveti, yes, that was supposed to be fixed14:30
ograwhich is irritating14:30
GrueMasterNo, it still happens.14:30
ograGrueMaster, i know14:30
rsalvetiogra: who was supposed to fix it?14:30
ograstil there was a fix uploaded to prevent massive ram usage14:30
lagSearch for "ureadahead patch" in the subject lines of the Kernel Team mailing list14:30
rsalvetiok, nice14:31
ograright14:31
ogratim uploaded a fix14:31
lagogra: Correct14:31
ograthough i dont know, it might be that there are also kernel side changes we're missing14:31
ograi'm not sure its all dont in ureadahead14:31
ogra*done14:31
rsalvetiI can help tracing this, as I'm using beagle most of the time14:32
ogragreat14:32
ograstill no NCommander14:33
GrueMasterAre we no longer enabling swap on the beagle images?14:33
ogranot atm14:33
NCommander  Sorry, internet burped14:33
GrueMasterNo wonder my system is really sluggish.14:33
NCommanderand kicked me off, had to reset the router14:33
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)14:34
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)14:34
ograGrueMaster, Bug 60573914:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60573914:34
ograthat seems to be fixed now14:34
bilalakhtaris this the DMB meeting?14:34
bilalakhtarso early?14:34
ograbilalakhtar, ARM meeting14:35
NCommanderbilalakhtar: it starts at 10 EST (25 minutes)14:35
bilalakhtarogra: thanks14:35
GrueMasterogra: I think I was seeing that in yesterday's image still.14:35
ograGrueMaster, yeah, i dont think cooloney applied the fix yet to any binary in the archive14:35
ograGrueMaster, would yo mind testing the kernel he provides at the bug14:36
GrueMasterThen it is open until then.14:36
GrueMasterWill do.14:36
rsalvetibut it seems that this fix only omap414:36
rsalvetiam I  right?14:36
GrueMasterIt's an smp bug, so yes.14:36
rsalvetiso why this is affecting beagle?14:36
ogramight be14:36
ograrsalveti, is it affecting beagle ?14:37
rsalveti<GrueMaster> Are we no longer enabling swap on the beagle images?14:37
GrueMasterDifferent issue.14:37
rsalvetioh, ok then :-)14:37
ograi switched it off generally14:37
rsalvetiok, that explains14:37
rsalvetiok, move on14:38
ograat the time the bug arose jasper didnt have any arch detection14:38
ograNCommander, move14:38
rsalvetimakes sense14:38
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:38
ogra(unless your inet has digesting probs again)14:38
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:38
GrueMasterI need to figure out why I am not seeing these test requests.14:38
NCommanderI'm going to get KDE fixed this week or next I hope14:39
ograGrueMaster, everyone in ubuntu-armel should get the bugmails14:39
dyfetwell, last week there were ups and downs in the archive, but kdelibs finally became rebuildable14:39
ogratelepathy-glib returned ?14:39
ograalso mutter14:39
ograand commons-daemon14:39
dyfetmutter is messy, I will check telepathy-glib to see why its back14:40
ogradyfet, please handle these with prio14:40
RiddellKDE just blocked on kdebindings for ARM now14:40
ograeven though we dont use clutter, the bits and pieces need to work do TI can test14:40
ogras/do/so/14:40
ograand linaro :)14:40
dyfet(kdebindings) This is because the sip bindings for qt use double, and double has to be cast to QReal14:41
dyfet(for armel)14:41
ogradyfet, yes, that will be fixed once NCommander applied the upstream fix to QT14:41
dyfetahh, okay14:41
ogra(which we are discussion nearly the whole release now)14:41
NCommanderdyfet: the problem is that someone removed the check from the cmake ile to handle this and hasn't passed in the option to make it wokr14:41
NCommanderogra: there will be no upstream fix for this forthcoming anytime soon.14:41
ograsigh14:41
ograNCommander, does asac know ?14:42
ogralinaro wont make their targets i assume without that fix14:42
NCommanderogra: yes. As I told both you, there's no easy way to incorperate the fix at this time, until Qt breaks their ABI or we do something hacky14:42
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:43
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:43
* NCommander has nothing to report14:43
ograimages build again since the weekend14:44
ograa lot faster now14:44
GrueMaster20100803 failed.14:44
ograimage resizing is down to less than 1min now with the new filesystem setup14:44
ograGrueMaster, yes, that issue is fixed, but we have new ones, the efl stack was updated14:45
ograwhich lets the images fail for a while until all is sorted14:45
NCommanderanything else, or can I move on?14:46
ograi'd like to get bugs about the panel stuff etc14:46
ograsince the settings package hasnt seen any fine adjustment yet14:46
ograso as soon as we have images again, please test images and file bugs :)14:47
ograthats all for image builds14:47
GrueMasterI'll file them as soon as I can get to them.  I'm going to do a package update on 0802 to get there.14:47
NCommander[topic] AOB14:47
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB14:47
rsalvetijust about rootstock14:47
rsalvetigot a new release last week14:48
rsalvetiand it's in the archive already14:48
rsalvetiso, if feel free to test it and report any issues you find14:48
NCommanderclosing out in 314:49
NCommander214:49
NCommander114:49
NCommander#endmeeting14:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:49.14:49
czajkowskiogra: meeting later on mail sent for reminder14:57
ograczajkowski, yup, thanks for the surprise :)14:57
ogra(i had forgotten about it)14:57
czajkowskiogra: wel you're not in that channel so I can't poke you :)15:01
bilalakhtarstgraber: ping15:02
bilalakhtarDo we have a DMB meeting now or after an hour?15:02
bilalakhtarogra: This meeting was of the Ubuntu Mobile team, right? Then, the next meeting should be that of DMB. But leading DMB members are not here15:03
bilalakhtarcody-somerville: ping15:03
=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
shadeslayercoolbhavi: dont be :P15:49
coolbhavishadeslayer, thanks!15:49
* shadeslayer gives coolbhavi candy bar15:50
shadeslayerbilalakhtar: best of luck to you too!15:50
shadeslayercoolbhavi: poke me when the meeting begins :D15:54
coolbhavishadeslayer, sure!15:54
shadeslayeri want to see how they grill people :P15:55
Damascenehi,15:55
Damascenewhat is the meeting about?15:55
shadeslayerDamascene: we have 2 MOTU applicants and 1 CDA15:55
Damascenereally, sounds cool15:55
bilalakhtarshadeslayer: Thanks!15:56
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: Hi!15:56
bilalakhtarDamascene: Assalam alaikum15:56
coolbhavibilalakhtar, hey all the best!15:57
Damascenebilalakhtar, wa alikom alsalam wa rahmatu allah15:57
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: I feel sorry for you being physically challenged15:57
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: I can't believe you have uploaded 950+ packages15:57
coolbhavibilalakhtar, hey thats no problems for me15:57
coolbhavi:)15:58
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: If I were you, I would have applied for MOTU when my uploads touched 4015:58
bilalakhtarYou waited till 900, coolbhavi15:58
coolbhavi:)15:58
coolbhavilets see!15:58
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: MOTU is a piece of cake for you15:58
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: is this the first time you are applying?15:59
coolbhavibilalakhtar, 2nd time 1st time it was deferred due to my own personal work16:00
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: that was when?16:00
coolbhavibilalakhtar, back in feb16:00
bilalakhtarthat early?16:00
bilalakhtarSary: Assalam alaikum16:01
bilalakhtarpersia: ping16:02
coolbhavibilalakhtar, I hadnt had enough time to apply as was busy with electrical engineering stuff16:02
Sarybilalakhtar, Wa Alykum Alsalam , how you do bro16:02
bilalakhtarSary: I am applying for UBuntu Contributing Developer, so I am here16:02
SaryAha , great .. how is it going16:03
gesercjwatson, soren, persia, cody-somerville, stgraber: DMB meeting!16:03
bilalakhtarSary: chat in #ubuntu-sa and not here16:03
persia\o16:03
stgraberI'm around, though I'll have to leave in around 25 minutes16:03
* mathiaz waves16:05
stgraberhey mathiaz16:05
juli_Hi everybody! I've mailed the DMB recently but it looks like the message is still in the moderation queue. So may I ask my question here?16:06
persiajuli_: Go ahead16:08
juli_persia, thanks! I'm working on updating NetBeans packages in Ubuntu from 6.8 to 6.9 and I'm almost blocked because of a massive lack of reviewers on REVU16:08
juli_dholbach kindly advised me to ask DMB if I can just go and upload those new packages16:08
juli_since I'm a member of ubuntu-dev since Aug 200916:08
persiajuli_: Ah, yeah.  If the source names are changing, we ought update your permissions: this shouldn't require REVU.16:09
juli_no, I need to upload 4 new packages. 2 of them are already reviewed by dholbach but I can't find another advocations16:10
juli_NetBeans requires new external libraries:(16:10
bilalakhtarWhen will the meeting begin? It is time, right?16:11
geserbilalakhtar: when we have quorum16:11
persiabilalakhtar: We're waiting for more DMB members: we can't take any decisions right now.16:11
bilalakhtartumbleweed: Welcome16:12
tumbleweedbilalakhtar: hi. I assume nothing has started yet?16:13
bilalakhtartumbleweed: no16:13
coolbhavitumbleweed, hey16:13
* bilalakhtar is getting nervous16:13
tumbleweedI think a couple of people may be at debconf...16:14
juli_persia, should I wait for some decision or there is no chance and it is better to go on to look for reviewers ?16:15
* bilalakhtar is anxiously waiting for more DMB members to join16:16
bilalakhtarThere go two more DMB members ^^16:16
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: looks like we are heading towards darkness16:17
coolbhavibilalakhtar, relax mate16:17
coolbhavilets wait16:17
bilalakhtarcoolbhavi: we are 20 minutes behind schedule16:19
coolbhavipersia, any news?16:19
persianews?  I'm unsure.  I just lost connectivity.16:20
* bilalakhtar is anxiously waiting for more DMB members, as he was waiting for this meeting for weeks16:20
coolbhaviokay!16:20
juli_persia, should I wait for some decision about NB or there is no chance to get upload permissions and it is better to go on to look for reviewers ?16:20
persiajuli_: As the packages are in the archive, I would expect that adding them to the permissions  set would be simple.  For adding the packages, I personally believe that peer review is valuable, but as a member of ubuntu-devel, you can decide to upload anyway if it's blocking you otherwise.16:22
cjwatsonhi, sorry, I got collared by somebody at the conference16:22
cjwatsonand connectivity is awkward16:22
juli_persia, ok thanks! in this case I'll find at least one reviewer for them, then upload and ask for permissions later on.16:23
stgraberI'm really sorry but I'll have to leave in 5 minutes or so ...16:24
=== e-jat is now known as ejat
cjwatsoncan we see what we can do in five minutes then?  we have quorum, briefly16:24
cjwatsonperhaps we can look at bilalakhtar's, which is out of sequence but ought to be quick?16:24
bilalakhtarthanks cjwatson16:24
stgraberI'm fine with that16:25
cjwatsonI notice that coolbhavi had some criticism in a comment to the effect that you needed to be a bit more careful when handling merges; do you understand the specific problems he's referring to here?16:26
bilalakhtarcjwatson: yes16:26
bilalakhtarcjwatson: I have improved a lot since then16:26
bilalakhtarcjwatson: that comment was about my early merges16:26
cjwatsonit's hard to pick out timestamps :)16:26
coolbhavicjwatson, he has improved a lot16:27
cjwatsonwhat do you do to determine whether merged changes are still needed?16:27
persiaHrm?  I thought that was something in the last revision (from yesterday)16:27
bilalakhtarcjwatson: debdiff from latest debian package16:28
bilalakhtarcjwatson: and read the diff16:28
cjwatsonwell, there are some changes that might be discarded if they're all that's left, right?16:28
bilalakhtarcjwatson: if we can drop the diffs, because the changes have been accepted in debian or they are no longer required, then we can request sync16:28
cjwatsonanyone have any further questions?16:29
bilalakhtarcjwatson: But the meeting hasn't begun formally, right?16:29
cjwatsonoh meh16:30
cjwatson#startmeeting16:30
MootBotMeeting started at 10:30. The chair is cjwatson.16:30
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:30
cjwatsonhas now :P16:30
iamfuzzlol16:30
cjwatson(formality is merely a crutch, not an end in itself)16:30
bilalakhtarcjwatson: I think now you need to set topic and link16:31
cjwatsonno I don't16:31
bilalakhtarcjwatson: What's going on here?16:32
cjwatsonplease don't try to manage the meeting for us16:32
cjwatson[vote] Bilal Akhtar for universe-contributors16:32
bilalakhtarcjwatson: sorry16:32
MootBotPlease vote on:  Bilal Akhtar for universe-contributors.16:32
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot16:32
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting16:32
persia+116:32
MootBot+1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 116:32
stgraber+116:32
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 216:32
geser+116:32
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 316:32
cjwatson+116:32
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 416:32
cjwatson#endvote16:32
cjwatson[endvote]16:32
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 416:32
iamfuzzbilalakhtar, congrats!16:33
bilalakhtarThanks iamfuzz16:33
coolbhavibilalakhtar, :)16:33
* persia would like to suggest mathiaz's item if we have time for another, as there are other applications potentially dependent.16:33
stgrabercongrats bilalakhtar. I now have to leave, sorry everyone.16:33
bilalakhtarThanks everyone!16:33
stgrabercody-somerville: around ?16:33
stgrabersoren said he wouldn't attend and nixternal isn't in the chan.16:34
bilalakhtarstgraber: I pinged him 2 hours ago, he didn't reply16:34
bilalakhtarhim is cody-somerville16:34
cjwatsonwe may be out of luck if Cody's not around16:34
persiaIndeed :(16:34
* bilalakhtar now has to eat, will idle around16:35
coolbhavipersia, :(16:35
cjwatsonah, Cody also sent mail saying he had a conflicting meeting16:35
geserCody mailed that he isn't around (same for soren)16:35
cjwatsonI think then that regrettably we'll have to call it a day here.  sorry I was late arriving16:35
cjwatsonI'll try to process election nominations this week and get elections for a new DMB member moving forward16:36
persiacjwatson: Thanks16:36
coolbhavicjwatson,  so the motu applications are on aug 17th?16:36
gesercoolbhavi: yes, assuming we have quorum on that day16:37
coolbhaviokay geser16:37
cjwatsonjuli_: regarding your request, I'm afraid that we can't add per-package upload permissions for packages not in the archive yet, so we are technically unable to grant your request until they're in the archive; persia said that he'd help out with that16:37
cjwatson(which I think is sort of what's in scrollback but I just wanted to clarify for the record)16:38
gesercjwatson: did you manage to get some of your action items done (or should they stay on the agenda for the next meeting)?16:38
cjwatsonmathiaz,coolbhavi,iamfuzz: apologies for the wasted time here16:38
mathiazcjwatson: no worries16:38
iamfuzzcjwatson, no worries, it happens16:38
cjwatsongeser: I think I did both, but let me just double-check16:38
iamfuzzsee you on the 17th16:38
mathiazcjwatson: have fun at Debconf :)16:38
shadeslayercoolbhavi: bilalakhtar awww :(16:39
cjwatsonhm, maybe I did not16:39
coolbhavicjwatson, no problems see the DMB on 17th :)16:39
cjwatson>>> sorted(set([p.name for p in lp.packagesets]))16:39
cjwatson['cli-mono', 'core', 'desktop-core', 'edubuntu', 'kernel', 'kubuntu', 'langpack', 'mobile', 'mozilla', 'mythbuntu', 'netbook', 'ubuntu-desktop', 'ubuntu-server', 'ubuntustudio', 'unr', 'xubuntu', 'zope']16:39
geserno sugar and no network-manager yet16:40
bilalakhtarshadeslayer: atleast I became one16:40
shadeslayerbilalakhtar: oh congrats16:40
shadeslayeri just saw that qourum can not be reached16:40
shadeslayer:P16:40
gesercjwatson: no problem, I leave them on the agenda and we can review on next meeting16:40
tumbleweedbilalakhtar: congrats. hope to sponsor more work from you soon :)16:40
* geser updates the agenda16:41
bilalakhtartumbleweed: Thanks everyone16:41
cjwatsongeser: thanks16:41
juli_cjwatson, ok, thanks! I'll talk to persia then16:42
bilalakhtarexit16:45
bilalakhtarsorry16:45
cjwatsongeser: I've completed my actions now16:59
cjwatson#endmeeting16:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:59.16:59
=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
* smb \o17:59
apwo/17:59
ckingo/17:59
bjf#startmeeting17:59
MootBotMeeting started at 11:59. The chair is bjf.17:59
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:59
JFoo/18:00
manjo\o18:00
kamalo/18:00
mpoiriermpoirier o/18:00
* tgardner lurks18:00
jjohansen\o18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
bjf#18:01
bjf# NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.18:01
bjf#18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
bjf[TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)18:01
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Status (lag)18:01
apw * Marvel (mvl-dove)18:01
apw   * GIT PULL : GIT PULL has been sent out for review18:01
apw   * PATCH    : 92 delta patches have been identified and rebased on top of our mvl-dove tip18:01
apw   * MISC     : Received update from Marvell for Dove LSP 5.3.218:01
apw * Freescale (fsl-imx51)18:01
apw   * MISC     : Freescale are helping to figure out the root cause of the bricked boards18:01
apw   * PATCH    : We have a patch to fix a PMIC issue. Related to above18:01
apw * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)18:01
apw   * GIT PULL : TIs pull request has been rejected by rtg due to coding style issues18:01
apw   * PATCH    : 240+ patches received from TI. Fully tested and works fine18:01
apw   * ON GOING : B591941 disabling CONFIG_CPU_FREQ and CONFIG_CPU_IDLE cures the issue18:01
apw   * WONT FIX : B571663 this hardware is not supported by us and we have no spare time to help18:01
apw..18:01
lagThanks Andy18:02
lag..18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)18:02
JFoRelease Meeting Bugs (3 bugs, 9 Blueprints)18:02
JFo==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (21 across all packages (down 19)) ====18:02
JFo * 1 linux kernel bugs (down 2)18:02
JFo * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)18:02
JFo==== Release Targeted Bugs (129 across all packages (up 2)) ====18:02
JFo * 25 linux kernel bugs (up 1)18:02
JFo * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 2 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)18:02
JFo * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)18:02
JFo=== Milestoned Features ====18:02
JFo * 14 blueprints18:02
JFo*** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***18:02
JFo==== Bugs with Patches Attached:128 (up 3) ====18:02
JFo * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on18:03
JFo * Breakdown by status:18:03
JFo   http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/18:03
JFo..18:03
tgardnerapw, didn't you fix the linux-meta-ti-omap issues?18:03
apwtgardner, yes they are fixed at our end, we have a bug task open to make sure the archive admins remove the old packages18:03
apwwhich they have yet to do as far as i know18:03
tgardnerah18:04
tgardneryou could bug riddel who is on archive duty today18:04
apwack ..18:04
tgardner..18:04
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:04
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:04
jjohansenAppArmor has been pulled into security-next, and from there merged into linux-next.18:04
jjohansenThere are still some userspace log parsing fixes and cleanups to finish off18:04
* apw cheers18:05
jjohansen:)18:05
jjohansen..18:05
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:05
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:05
apwNothing new to report.18:05
apw..18:05
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:06
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:06
tgardnerTracking Maverick. I'm seeing quite a bit of interest lately, both for server issues as well as desktop.18:06
tgardner..18:06
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:06
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:06
jjohansenMaverick EC2 images are now using the -virtual kernel with pv-ops. This is working fairly well with the caveat of a few bugs18:06
jjohansenBug #613022, Bug #606373, Bug #61287518:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 613022 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh daemon hangs after publickey packet sent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61302218:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60637318:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 612875 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel in EC2 only boots from pv-grub " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61287518:07
jjohansenI am still investigating the pv-on-hvm drivers18:07
jjohansen..18:07
* apw cheers again ...18:08
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:08
ogasawaraNothing new to report this week.18:08
ogasawara..18:08
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review18:08
ogasawaraNothing new to report this week.18:08
ogasawara..18:08
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:08
tgardnerare these still worthwhile agenda items ?18:08
JFonothing to report18:09
JFo..18:09
ogasawaratgardner: the delta review really only has one item to review our ubuntu drivers18:09
ogasawaratgardner: the config review I think we could drop18:09
apwwe don't really have a 'put this back on once in 8 weeks time' mode for the agenda18:09
apw..18:09
JFothe bug handling I simply haven't worked on this past week :)18:09
JFo..18:09
* bjf will drop config-review18:10
tgardnerok, I guess we can just keep ignoring them until the M+1 cycle starts18:10
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:10
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:10
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:10
apwReadahead tracking patches are now applied to maverick and uploaded.  We also committed some grub framebuffer handling patches to help with the clean boot.18:10
apw..18:10
ckingsweet18:11
simarHi JFo. I'm in the meeting.18:11
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:11
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:11
cking* fwts 0.17.2 in maverick universe18:11
cking* few minor bug fixes, PPA version 0.17.418:11
cking* automated build of USB stick image to run fwts tests18:11
cking..18:11
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:11
* JFo cheers cking 18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:11
ogasawara2.6.35 final was released over the weekend.  As a result we did a last minute rebase and upload for Maverick, ie 2.6.35-14.19.  This is what will be included in the Alpha3 images.  Please test.18:11
ogasawaraAlpha 3 is this Thurs Aug 5th.  We are still above our Alpha 3 burn down chart's trend line.  If you still have open Alpha 3 work items that will not be completed by EOD tomorrow, push the item(s) out to -beta or mark it POSTPONED if it appears it won't be completed this cycle.18:12
* apw cheers ... yet again18:12
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann-away
ogasawara[LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html18:12
ogasawara[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-318:12
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-318:12
ogasawara..18:12
=== oubiwann-away is now known as oubiwann
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)18:13
smbNothing changed since last week.18:13
smb..18:13
tgardnermaybe apw and jjohansen should give away some of their bugs or work items18:13
apwtgardner, will review mine and see what can be shed ...18:13
jjohansentgardner: I will look at mine as well18:14
tgardnerapw, not all of yours are release critical18:14
apwmost are not, i wish there was a way to note the difference in the tooling ..18:14
jjohansenthough, some of the security related work items are going to get marked postponed18:15
tgardnerjjohansen, you're only showing 2 work items outstanding18:15
tgardnerI think we're in pretty good shape, despite the trend line18:16
tgardner..18:16
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:16
JFo201 Maverick Bugs (up 30)18:16
JFo1124 Lucid Bugs (up 25)18:16
JFoCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):18:16
JFo==== regression-potential ====18:16
JFo  * 111 maverick bugs (up 5)18:16
JFo  * 226 lucid bugs (up 5: to be converted to regression-release)18:16
JFo==== regression-update ====18:16
JFo  * 43 lucid bugs (up 3)18:17
JFo  * 6 karmic bugs (no change)18:17
JFo  * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)18:17
JFo  * 1 hardy bug (no change)18:17
JFo==== regression-release ====18:17
JFo  * 181 lucid bugs (up 8)18:17
JFo  * 44 karmic bugs (no change)18:17
JFo  * 19 jaunty bugs (no change)18:17
JFo  * 2 hardy bugs (no change)18:17
JFo==== regression-proposed ====18:17
JFo  * 4 lucid bugs (up 2)18:17
JFo  * 1 karmic bug (no change)18:17
JFo..18:17
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:18
JFoThe Bug Day for this week was cancelled due to sickness on my part over the last week. It was not announced, so I opted not to have it. I will send out a notice for the Bug Day for next week today. We will be focused on bugs that have been incorrectly set to the New state as well as removing duplicates on those we encounter that are not a complete hardware match. A secondary focus will be on tagging them with the relevant subsystem. We will contin18:18
JFoue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday, as these seem to be working out very well. Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving.18:18
JFo..18:18
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:18
JFoo/18:18
bjfJFo, go18:19
JFofor next weeks meeting I'll be adding a Triage topic18:19
JFoso that we can discuss and recognize current events in the bug triage world18:19
JFofro now, I'd like to recognize simar for joining us18:19
bjfyou'd like me to add a triage topic18:19
JFoif you don't mind :)18:20
apwsimar, welcome ...18:20
JFoindeed, welcome simar :)18:20
JFoI'd like to use this time during the meeting to recognize triagers and to further discuss items of a triage nature that do not fall easily into our format18:21
JFo..18:21
simarJFo apw Thaks for welcoming :))18:21
apwalways nice to have new people involved18:21
JFowe are very glad to have you18:21
apwsimar, do you have specific areas of interest ?18:21
bjfI wanted to mention that at the beginning of each dev cycle I go through all the18:21
bjfblueprints and add them all back on as agenda items. So we should feel free to18:21
bjfdrop any we don't want to keep looking at along the way.18:21
JFogood call bjf18:22
bjf..18:22
bjfanyone else?18:22
simarI have seen agenda of the meeting. There I saw ARM, I have coded for motorola mc9x12x series of processors.18:22
simarI have been worked on touchpad bugs for now. .18:22
apwsimar, nice ... you should come chat to us over on #ubuntu-kernel .... :)18:23
apwbjf ..18:23
simarapw: sure :)18:23
bjf#endmeeting18:23
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:23.18:23
JFothanks bjf :)18:23
smbbjf, thanks18:23
kamalthanks bjf18:23
sconklinthanks18:24
lago/18:24
simarthanks.18:24
diwicbjf, how does one drop a blueprint? I remember seeing one recently suggesting we package "polypaudio"...18:24
bjfdiwic, not sure i understand "drop a blueprint"18:25
bjfdiwic, you'd like it added to the agenda or you'd like to create one?18:25
diwicbjf, you said "we should feel free to drop any we don't want to keep looking at"18:26
bjfdiwic, i was speaking with respect to them on the meeting agenda18:28
bjfdiwic, sorry i wasn't clear18:28
diwicbjf, aha. Nevertheless we should really remove some obsolete blueprint stuff from launchpad18:29
diwicbjf, if that's possible...18:29
bjfdiwic, don't know how to do that18:29
diwicI fear it is not possible18:29
* manjo leaving18:30
ogasawaradiwic: I think in the blueprint itself you can set the status to obsolete etc.18:30
diwicogasawara, possibly, I guess I don't have permission to change other people's blueprints then18:31
ogasawaradiwic: ah probably not if you're not the owner18:32
diwicogasawara, while you're here, what is the easiest way to add a sign-off to another persons patch?18:32
ogasawaradiwic: for example, I'd add Signed-off-by: Leann Ogasawara <leann.ogasawara@canonical.com>18:32
diwicogasawara, I know the line and about "git commit --amend -s", but should I sync upstream, then rebase it to add the sign-off, then use git format-patch on the result?18:34
ogasawaradiwic: nah, just reply to the email and add your SOB.18:35
diwicok18:35
diwicogasawara, still lean18:36
diwicstill learning18:36
diwicall patch workflows18:37
ogasawaradiwic: no worries.  I know each mailing list is probably different for how they want patches submitted.18:37
jiboumanso/18:59
kirklando]=[18:59
SpamapSsorry my clock is slow :p18:59
* mathiaz waves18:59
hggdh~รด~18:59
jjohansen\o18:59
mathiazI'll be leading and scribing this week19:00
jiboumanskirkland looks like roadkill...19:00
mathiazso get prepared to rock da' house...19:00
hggdh:-)19:00
SpamapS 3 Aug 11:05:11 ntpdate[18138]: step time server 17.151.16.23 offset -298.781854 sec19:00
SpamapSHah, or fast.. take your pick. ;)19:00
* hggdh wishes to kill ntpdate19:00
ttx\o19:01
smoser\019:01
RoAkSoAxpo/19:01
RoAkSoAxo/19:01
RoAkSoAxlol19:01
* kirkland kinda feels like roadkill19:01
mathiazallrighty19:02
Davieyo/19:02
mathiazlet's get started19:02
SpamapS /o._.o\19:02
mathiaz#startmeeting19:02
MootBotMeeting started at 13:02. The chair is mathiaz.19:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:02
mathiazToday's amazing agenda:19:02
mathiazhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting#preview19:02
mathiaz[TOPIC] # Review ACTION points from previous meeting19:02
MootBotNew Topic:  # Review ACTION points from previous meeting19:02
mathiazSpamapS to work with mathiaz on a proposal, and send proposal to -devel on ruby gems in ubuntu19:03
mathiazwork in progress19:03
jiboumansany progress to report? it's been moved twice so far19:03
mathiazI think we've got something ready - SpamapS ?19:03
SpamapSIts just about done19:04
=== ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube
SpamapSmathiaz provided me with valuable feedback, and I've been working on getting it just right19:04
mathiaz[ACTION] SpamapS to send ruby gems proposel to ubuntu-devel19:04
MootBotACTION received:  SpamapS to send ruby gems proposel to ubuntu-devel19:04
mathiaz Daviey & kirkland to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html19:04
kirklandmathiaz: done!  looks good to me, sommer19:04
SpamapSBTW, my messages to ubuntu-devel seem to take an average of 7 - 10 days to arrive in my inbox19:04
kirklandSpamapS: you need to get ubuntu membership ;-)19:05
mathiazSpamapS: it may be held for moderation19:05
SpamapSWould be nice if somebody can moderate them through quicker than that.19:05
hggdhmoderation, I guess19:05
mathiaz entire team to fix your papercuts by end-of-the-week19:05
kirklandmathiaz: did mine ;-)19:05
Davieymembership doesn't give you whitelisting on that list, it's upload rights that does it.19:05
SpamapSStill waiting for my collectd MIR guidance email to come through, though cjwatson did tell me he moderated it yesterday.19:05
mathiazMootBot: did mine as well19:05
ttxI'll come back to that later19:06
jiboumansttx: did anyone miss their papercut?19:06
mathiazI think we'll come back to the papercut later19:06
ttxsome did, yes.19:06
mathiazSpamapS and ScottK to reivew Kolab php5 patches19:06
zulGDAY19:06
ttxbut it will bite them back with a vengeance19:06
ttxas it'll be back in beta :P19:06
mathiazSpamapS: I've seen some progress on this topic - Kolab php5 patches19:07
SpamapSmathiaz: I believe the uw-imap patches have been uploaded..19:07
SpamapSmathiaz: the php5-imap patches will come w/ 5.3.319:07
SpamapSzul: right?19:07
* mathiaz o^5 SpamapS 19:07
zulno...after alpha19:07
* mathiaz o^2*5 zul 19:07
ttxthat gets dirty19:08
mathiazAnything else related to last week meeting?19:08
SpamapSand upstream has committed to importing the patches19:08
SpamapSupstream, meaning php. :)19:08
mathiaz[TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)19:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Maverick development (jib)19:09
jiboumansWe were quite overcomitted for Alpha3, so unfortunately another round of postpones had to be done. Please see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html for the latest chart.19:09
jiboumansseveral items will be done first thing during the beta, before feature freeze, but for the following specs, we dropped most of the work:19:09
jiboumanscloud-libs, daily-vcs and uec-monitoring as they won't be able to be done before FF19:09
jiboumansthey remain targets of opportunity of course, but we dont expect them to be completed19:10
ttxcloud-libs is completed19:10
ttxI did it last week19:10
jiboumanseh, cloud-config19:10
ttx... ?19:10
* jiboumans is probably confused today19:10
* jiboumans goes and looks19:10
jiboumanscloud-utils, thank you very much19:10
ttxack19:11
jiboumanslet's all pretend i said that very eloquently in one go :)19:11
* ttx looks the other way19:11
jiboumanswe've also added blueprints to track ongoing work like ISO testing and triaging, just to provide more insight, so those will be in the tracker as well starting the beta cycle19:11
zulumm..blueprint for triaging?19:12
hggdhand testing?19:12
jiboumansmost blueprints should be scoped for the beta workloads now, so please have a look and make sure there are no anomalies19:12
cjwatsonSpamapS: I think there was some network problem - should be through now19:12
jiboumanszul, hggdh: as per the outcome of our prague sprint, yes19:12
ttxone work items for each daily triage19:12
ttxwe'll see if it helps19:12
jiboumansi think that's all regarding alpha3 scope & beta plans19:13
jiboumansttx, floor's all yours19:13
mathiaz[TOPIC] #19:13
mathiazAlpha3 subcycle status (ttx)19:13
MootBotNew Topic:  #19:13
mathiaz[TOPIC] Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)19:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)19:13
ttxwell, I think that one got covered quite well by Jos19:13
ttxAlpha3-milestoned bugs19:13
mathiaz[TOPIC] Alpha3-milestoned bugs (ttx)19:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha3-milestoned bugs (ttx)19:13
ttxthe remaining bugs were retargeted to beta, since I managed to run an instance on topology1 with euca2.0 out of the box19:14
ttxbut other topologies and loadtesrting are still very broken19:14
SpamapScjwatson: thanks it just arrived. :-D19:14
ttxAlpha3 ISO testing:19:14
mathiaz[TOPIC] Alpha3 ISO testing (ttx)19:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha3 ISO testing (ttx)19:14
ttxthe current candidate was smoketested enough to have good confidenbce it behaves. We'll have a eucalyptus commit later today, and a respin early tomorrow19:15
ttxso you should concentrate your ISO testing efforts on tomorrow's19:15
ttxon the cloud images side...19:15
ttxsmoser: you smoketested them and caught a bug that warrants a respin there as well19:16
ttx?19:16
smoseryes.19:16
smoseri've caught some other bugs in the ec2 images also.19:16
ttxdo you think you can respin and launch a test before your eod today ?19:17
smosernone that seem likely to be fixed by tomorrow, but dont stop alpha.19:17
smoseri'm starting re-spin.19:17
ttxok -- then just remember your area of ISo testing, it's marked down on the corresponding work item19:17
ttxI'll help on the UEC side probably19:17
Daviey\o/19:18
ttxsince ccheney is away19:18
hggdhyes!19:18
hggdhmore blood on the arena19:18
Davieyttx: That is *greatly* appreciated19:18
hggdhalthough there will not be much to test19:18
ttxI can take on a triceratops with my bare hands and the power of my look19:18
jiboumansttx++ # organizer of things19:18
jiboumansttx: you may have heard science proved triceratops didn't actually exist19:19
ttxwhen I look at bugs, they fly away :)19:19
* Daviey has witnessed this19:19
ttxjiboumans: dammit19:19
* hggdh wishes ttx would look at UEC19:19
mathiazI guess that we can move given the last comments...19:19
mathiaz[TOPIC] #19:20
MootBotNew Topic:  #19:20
mathiaz[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:20
SpamapSo/ # ?19:20
ttx# #19:20
hggdhnothing new here, except that Eucalyptus only works in all-in-one19:20
mathiazSpamapS: it's when I cut and paste from firefox19:20
SpamapSOh, I thought the new topic was something about hashing. ;)19:20
SpamapSI asked before, but just to confirm, we should expect ISO's in the next couple of days right?19:21
mathiazhggdh: how is the QA team doing?19:21
hggdhgood. Almost up-to-date on all tasks, no real news19:21
mathiazok - any questions to the QA team?19:21
DavieySpamapS: When you wake up tomorrow, there should hopefully be a fresh ISO to test :)19:21
mathiazlet's move on19:22
mathiaz[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:22
jjohansenso we have switch to a 2.6.35 pv-ops kernel19:22
* ttx wishes that the old bug list was still present on the agenda19:22
* ttx recovers19:22
jiboumansjjohansen++ # awesome19:22
jjohansenah yeah, I was just looking for the load bug #19:23
SpamapSjjohansen: any news on the high load for idle instances on ec2?19:23
SpamapShah me too19:23
ttxjjohansen: bug 574910 is getting out of control19:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57491019:23
ttxjjohansen: great fix on bug 599450 !19:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59945019:23
jjohansenits definitely a really bug and I have started "bisecting" it19:23
mathiazSpamapS: is this bug 611272?19:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 611272 in tomcat6 (Ubuntu) "clean tomcat6 install causes load to go up" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61127219:24
SpamapSno 57491019:24
mathiazSpamapS: rather - is bug 611272 a duplicate of 574910?19:24
ttxmathiaz: that one might be a dupe19:24
jjohansenttx: agreed that the bug is out of control19:24
SpamapSmathiaz: yeah thats entirely possible, seems like it for sure.19:25
SpamapSactually..19:25
SpamapSI see a high load on my idle VMware instance too now that I think about it19:25
jjohansenhopefully we will have a resolution to it soon, however its not a clean bisect situation19:25
smoserSpamapS, don't get started. the bug is ec2 bug. if you have others, please open other bugs.19:25
smoserits metabug with loads of irrelavent info already.19:26
jjohansenhehe, right even if its the same bug :)19:26
SpamapSsmoser: agreed. I just wonder if the same issue is causing the problem.19:26
smoseri do think 611272 is probably a duplicate, although i've never seen load go up to 119:26
SpamapS 11:26:53 up  1:46,  1 user,  load average: 1.09, 1.15, 1.1519:26
smoserit is interesting to me that we've no evidence of this mystic load on "real hardware"19:27
SpamapSThing has been sitting there doing nothing.. top shows nothing.19:27
SpamapSoccasionally gmond or vmtoolsd pops up as doing something19:27
mathiazok - I think we should move on19:27
mathiazand keep debugging later on19:27
mathiazjjohansen: anything else from the kernel team?19:28
ttxI think jjohansen and smoser welcome all help, but not more confusion on that bug :)19:28
smoserwhat color is your laptop, SpamapS ?19:28
jjohansenI am looking at the pv-on-hvm drivers, and smoser found a few bugs with pv-ops19:28
SpamapSsmoser: Silver unless it gets really hot, then it turns red ;)19:29
smoserthat was probably off topic. but an example of the off topic content in the bug.19:29
SpamapSlol19:29
mathiazanything else *for* the kernel team?19:29
SpamapSkernel team: keep on rockin in the free world. :)19:29
jjohansenI think I am done19:29
mathiazjjohansen: great - thanks !19:30
mathiazlet's move on19:30
mathiaz[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)19:30
mathiazhm - noone around19:30
mathiazso move on19:30
mathiaz[TOPIC] #19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  #19:30
mathiaz[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Community Team (kim0)19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Community Team (kim0)19:30
jiboumansno kim0 it seems19:30
jiboumansthe topic got added recently19:30
ttxit's quite late in Egypt19:31
mathiazok - I've pinged kim0 - he may stop by later19:31
mathiazlet's move on19:31
mathiazah...19:31
mathiazkim0: o/19:31
jiboumansspeak of the devil19:31
ttxkim0 never sleeps19:31
kim0hehe19:31
kim0so whats up19:32
mathiazkim0: anything to report from the community team to the server team?19:32
kim0hmm .. well the updates are19:32
kim0We're basically fighting with IS to release the maps app for the 10.04.1 release19:32
kim0on time19:32
kim0hopefully this week19:32
DavieyHi.. i've just had a power failure - meaning i'm connecting throw 3g - which is currently very slow...19:32
ttxwe'll.. speak... slowly19:33
SpamapSkim0: you could always just pool together your EC2 allowance for the month and run it on EC2. ;)19:33
Davieythrough*19:33
kim0SpamapS: I don't really know how this allowance thing works19:33
DavieyCan we discuss atop until my power returns please? :)19:33
kim0but jono didn't seem too excited19:33
kim0so I'm not doing that19:33
kim0If anyone is interested in the cloud portal specs19:33
kim0I've updated the docs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CloudPortalSpecs19:34
mathiazkim0: cool - thanks19:34
kim0check it out and let us know opinions19:34
kim0that's basically all from my side19:34
mathiazanything to ask to the community team?19:34
jiboumanskim0: let us know if and when the app is up and we'll blog/mail/tweet about it19:34
kim0jiboumans: sure thingie19:35
jiboumansthanks19:35
kim0if it's not up by this thursday19:35
kim0I'll go the ec2 route19:35
kim0coz that'd be the final week19:35
SpamapSyes, we need to unleash a blog-pocalypse when its released19:35
kim0Yes hehe19:35
mathiazok - anything else to add?19:35
kim0nope that's all19:35
mathiazlet's move on19:36
mathiaz[TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (zul)19:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly SRU review (zul)19:36
zulim still catching up from beeing back on holiday19:36
mathiazzul: I'm not sure what we're supposed to do here19:36
mathiazas the nominations should be done by email now19:36
zulneither am i...since its done by email now19:37
zulif it were up to me i would remove it from the agenda19:37
mathiazhttp://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html19:37
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html19:37
mathiazis working again19:37
SpamapSI have one that is sort of in question..19:37
mathiazwho's looking after that? and making sure things are moved along?19:37
SpamapSbug #61169519:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 611695 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu) "mysqlhotcopy produces error about log tables" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/61169519:38
zulmathiaz: i try to review it every friday19:38
ttx"319" days assigned : should probably be unassigned19:38
zulagreed19:38
ttxthere is also a "362" :)19:39
ttxif we remove the cruft, it will be reviewable during the meeting19:39
zulanything above a 300 should be removed19:39
zulill do it this friday19:39
mathiazor worked on ASAP :D19:39
ttxi'd argue that stuff assigned for > 150 days should be removed as well19:39
SpamapSremoved meaning not SRU'd?19:39
mathiazI'd argue stuff assigned for > 30 days19:40
ttxSpamapS: no19:40
mathiazat some point down the line19:40
DavieyMaybe it's a really complex and requires a year of development! :)19:40
ttxSpamapS: removced as in no longer assigned to someone that does not make it happen19:40
SpamapSgot it19:40
mathiazthere is some backlog then19:40
mathiazthere is some backlog *now*19:40
ttxWe should strive for no red in there19:40
mathiazbut once you've cleared things up there shouldn't be any red19:41
ttxand only have the stuff we intend to do short-term19:41
ttxmathiaz: I hope so19:41
mathiazany question wrt to the SRU process?19:41
mathiazor SRU?19:41
SpamapSthe bug I mentioned earlier..19:42
ttxmaybe action people to clean up their SRU abandon items ?19:42
mathiazttx: we should probably prod them19:42
mathiazttx: as most of them are not in the meeting19:42
ttxok19:42
mathiaz[ACTION] zul to clean up the SRU assigne list by prodding people on status19:42
MootBotACTION received:  zul to clean up the SRU assigne list by prodding people on status19:42
* zul gets out the cattle prod19:42
mathiazlet's move on19:42
mathiaz[TOPIC] Server papercuts (ttx)19:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Server papercuts (ttx)19:42
ttxyay19:43
ttxFinal status for alpha3 :https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-319:43
ttxsome fixes are considered committed, that is the work on them is done, but the fix didn't come back from debian yet19:43
ttxi expect the assignees to followup on those19:44
ttxBeta cycle is here : https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-beta19:44
ttxThere are the two that Dave hadn't had time to finalize, plus 10 others19:44
ttxpick yours  :)19:44
ttxcycle starts 2010-08-0619:45
ttxends 2010-08-2519:45
mathiazanything else to add on the papercut project?19:45
ttxnothing from me19:46
mathiazlet's move on then19:46
mathiaz[TOPIC] Open Discussion19:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion19:46
ttx...19:47
SpamapSo/19:47
mathiazI ran into the following project last week: http://www.eurekastreams.org/19:47
ttxkirkland: how is Montreal's summer ?19:47
kirklandttx: way cooler than Austin, temperature wise :-)19:48
ttxmathiaz: I had trouble to see what it does more than a regular twitter-like19:48
mathiazseems like a great way to get activity/status report within the team19:48
kirklandi'm hoping to see the aurorae borealis tonight, if we're far enough north....19:48
jiboumans"The coldest winter I've ever spent was a summer in Montreal" -- Dustin Twain19:48
mathiazttx: what I found interesting is the concept of plugin19:48
SpamapSmathiaz: I took a look at it, very interesting tool.. I wonder if it would be useful for UDS sessions19:48
kirklandhttp://news.discovery.com/space/incoming-the-sun-unleashes-cme-at-earth.html19:48
MootBotLINK received:  http://news.discovery.com/space/incoming-the-sun-unleashes-cme-at-earth.html19:48
kirklandjiboumans: something like that :-)19:48
mathiazttx: so we could have LP plugins19:48
ttxmathiaz: so twitter + dashboards ?19:48
mathiazttx: whenever you upload something in LP in gets into your stream19:49
jiboumansmathiaz: i checked out the demo. it seems it really shines with many users19:49
mathiazttx: yes19:49
SpamapSit seems to have some of the coolness of webnumbr too19:49
ttxmathiaz: what I've been missing recently is some presence tool, would that address that ?19:49
zulkirkland: doubt it you will see it in montreal19:49
kirklandzul: darn :-(19:49
kirklandzul: will you see it in Ottawa?19:50
ttxbeing able to tell people are "at work". Crosscheking with calendars doesn't really help me19:50
stas_!time19:50
ubottuInformation about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)19:50
mathiazttx: right19:50
ttxbut I guess we could solve that with a specific status message19:50
zulbut hggdh loves notpdate19:50
mathiazttx: IMO if I'm not I work I'm not IRC19:50
mathiazttx: it's the easiest way to see whether I'm online19:51
mathiazhowever people have different opinion on this19:51
ttxmathiaz: you're easy ;)19:51
ttxpredictability is also good. Since you travel, your work hours change19:51
jiboumansi second that btw19:52
jiboumansbut whatever we use, it has to low impact19:52
mathiazttx: so you'd like to have both real-time presence and expected presence19:52
SpamapSttx: I'd love to have a presence tool as well19:52
SpamapSI try ot remember to set /away on irc but I often forget19:52
ttxfor expected presence the calendar is ok19:52
Daviey /j #server  ; sleep 10h ; /part #server19:52
ttxmathiaz: for example, I don't think you disconnect from IRC when you go out to eat19:53
mathiazttx: that's true19:53
Daviey XMPP!19:53
* SpamapS suggests GPS ankle bracelets for all Ubuntu members19:53
jiboumans.... someone will say google wave soon19:53
mathiazttx: however I may take more than 1 hour to answer a ping on IRC19:53
Daviey Jabber could be ideal for this.19:53
ttxSpamapS: I like that. With electrical shocks when your velocity goes down19:53
stas_hi guys, loco council is doing reapproval meeting today?19:53
SpamapSjust setup a collage of webcams from all our home offices19:53
Davieystas_: perhaps.. this this currently the server meeting19:54
nuvolario/ tumbleweed :D19:54
ttxI think webcam/mumble is not appropriate to do presence19:54
stas_Daviey: how long this is gonna take?19:54
* mathiaz agrees19:54
mathiazstas_: a couple more minutes19:54
zulconsidering if you are sitting in your briefs19:54
stas_ah, ok, srry, carry on :)19:55
mathiazstas_: until the begining of next hour as outlined on the fridge calendar19:55
* SpamapS watches the train slowly derail19:55
ttxanyway, I'm not opposed to trying out eurekastreams19:55
mathiazit was just food for though19:55
ttxit just might be slightly overkill :)19:55
mathiazttx: agreed - we should try it out to get a feeling about it ;)19:56
SpamapSuser: ping! seems to work for active communication19:56
mathiazanything else to add before we wrap up?19:56
ttxnope19:56
mathiazSpamapS: http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/2006-10-10-12-05_contentless_pings.html19:57
mathiazlet's wrap up then19:57
mathiaz[TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time19:57
MootBotNew Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time19:57
mathiaznext week, same place, same time?19:57
mathiazTuesday 2010-08-10 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting19:57
mathiaz^^ ?19:57
kirkland+119:58
mathiazall right - so next week, same place, same time19:58
mathiaz#endmeeting19:58
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:58.19:58
jiboumansthanks all19:59
czajkowski2 mins to loco council meeting folks19:59
czajkowskiitnet7: huats19:59
huatsthere I am czajkowski19:59
czajkowskijust waiting on the others to arrive20:00
huatssure czajkowski20:00
stas_great, hi all20:00
czajkowskipaultag: howdy20:01
paultagBRB20:02
paultagI need to head home20:02
paultagstart without me :)20:02
czajkowskilets wait a few as no sign of leogg or popey just yet20:02
huatsczajkowski, sure20:03
drubinczajkowski: sure no prpbople20:03
czajkowskihmm20:04
* nuvolari gets out his banner20:04
amachumidnight at india..20:06
czajkowskiright popey is on his way20:06
popeyGreetings!20:06
czajkowskiwho is from indian loco here20:07
popeySorry for being late, had a small child with a nose bleed :S20:07
huatshello popey20:07
nagarajaIts almost 00.36 am in India20:07
huatsright on time20:07
czajkowskiok could you please add your wiki applicationto the agenda so20:07
czajkowskiit's missing20:07
thangam_arunI am also from India20:07
czajkowskiand we can get started as I know it's late20:07
czajkowskithanks20:07
czajkowski#startmeeting20:07
MootBotMeeting started at 14:07. The chair is czajkowski.20:07
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]20:07
vikyi am from india20:07
czajkowskiAloha LoCO Council meeting is underway!20:07
czajkowski[link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda20:08
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda20:08
huatshello viky20:08
czajkowskiwe have a short agenda tonight just two teams and a topic for us to discss, but I know it's late for some people so lets start with applications20:08
vikyhello20:08
czajkowski[topic] South Africa20:08
MootBotNew Topic:  South Africa20:08
drubinczajkowski: Hi20:09
czajkowski[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication20:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication20:09
czajkowskidrubin: hi there20:09
crabbytagOK. im on my droid but here20:09
nuvolariwhoop! we're up :D go drubin!20:09
czajkowskiright so there is 4 council members so we're good to go20:09
maiatodaygo drubin20:09
drubinczajkowski: questions?20:09
czajkowskidrubin: so care to tell us about your loco please20:10
drubinSo an introduction is something that explains who what we are... Kinda hard really because we are every one....20:10
stefanlsdheys, if south africa can host a world cup, we can host a loco :)20:10
drubinSo we as a loco are from the Southern Part of Africa.20:10
drubinstefanlsd: ^520:10
highvoltageyes we can!20:10
czajkowskigrin20:10
drubinczajkowski: We are the place were ubuntu kinda started with Mark ;-p20:10
czajkowskiok can you tell us how you share out roles and oraganise events20:10
highvoltagethere's some people in the loco that also really stepped up the last year or so and have been doing great work20:11
drubinczajkowski: we don't really have a formal proccess ;/20:11
nuvolari^520:11
czajkowskidrubin: so how does stuff get done?20:11
* tumbleweed waves as a new ZA MOTU20:11
highvoltagelike maiatoday who hosted and awesome release party at her house (which is just one of many cool things she did)20:11
drubinczajkowski: There was a gap this year right after we lost our website but after speaking to superfly (where is he)20:11
drubinhe basically redesigned our site and well http://ubuntu-za.org/ came out ;-p20:12
drubinczajkowski: That is something I would actually like to change the whole roles thing but every one seems *very* busy at the current momment20:12
drubinas with every one. ;-p20:13
czajkowski*nods*20:13
czajkowskiof course20:13
drubinSo the whole formal role thing is a bit much, but people all help out where they can when they can.20:13
crabbytagdrubin: can you talk a bit ab out the case stickers?20:13
drubinmakes special note of sueprfly, maiatoday, and tumbleweed20:13
drubincrabbytag: which ones?20:13
Kiloshiya. im here20:13
drubincrabbytag: both maiatoday and me make case badges ;-p20:13
nuvolariya, some employers don't fully support passion for ubuntu :( But I try to wedge in time where I can :)20:13
highvoltagedrubin: I assume the ones on the re-application wiki page :)20:14
crabbytagthats the one :)20:14
* inetpro comes to join the ubuntu-za croud - sorry for being late20:14
drubinOk will start with mine http://blog.smartcube.co.za/2009/05/26/ubuntu-pc-badges-for-za/20:14
* Morganvd here to help where i can with ubuntu-za20:14
drubinbasically I just got my laptop and I didn't like the fact it said "powered by widnows Vista" so phoned around got a quote and printed 400020:14
drubinthey wouldn't print any thing less and I thought well I can give them out so I did.20:15
* maiatoday likes shiney case badges with ubuntu logos20:15
Morganvdi need a few of those20:15
drubinhttp://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/unusual/small-25mm-badge-pins << maiatoday's badges happened I think because she showed me the design at one of the ubuntu hours and I was like OMG that is awesome I want like 2020:15
MootBotLINK received:  http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/unusual/small-25mm-badge-pins << maiatoday's badges happened I think because she showed me the design at one of the ubuntu hours and I was like OMG that is awesome I want like 2020:15
drubinso she got them printed as well20:15
highvoltagemaiatoday also had human badges!20:16
* inetpro received a set of stickers from drubin all the way in Pretoria20:16
drubinWe both kinda gave them out to people and said they can donate what they can/want to20:16
drubinhttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IMDTCDbQeWY/S9yQEsSTS1I/AAAAAAAAAG4/du4so-FpfVw/s320/cake.resized.JPG20:16
MootBotLINK received:  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IMDTCDbQeWY/S9yQEsSTS1I/AAAAAAAAAG4/du4so-FpfVw/s320/cake.resized.JPG20:16
drubinwe also had CAKE!!! come cake ftw20:16
czajkowskihow many people turn up to your events? say a relase party?20:16
* nuvolari also got badges from drubin20:16
* helger also got badges20:17
drubinczajkowski: mmm We kinda lost ourwiki posts20:17
drubinhighvoltage: ^20:17
drubinczajkowski: but at the last global jam we hadd +-50 people come though20:17
drubinand at the release part in CPT/Stellenbosch there were +- 3520:17
maiatodayczajkowski: there are sometimes simultaneous events in different places in the country20:17
drubinpeople made the 55min drive effort to come20:17
crabbytagnice!20:18
drubinCPT = Cape town (city) JHB = another city20:18
czajkowskiok20:18
drubinexact numbers are odd.20:18
nuvolariIn Bloem we had around 8 people the last time, and I think Brandfort also had that, or a greater number20:18
stefanlsdsouth africa is pretty big... takes like 15 hours to drive across it.20:18
drubinbut at the Karmic release party we had +- 5 or 6 release aprties in cpts20:18
drubinLucid we had like 3 it was less of a hipe.20:19
MorganvdThere was 6 in Johannesburg for Karmix20:19
MorganvdKarmic*20:19
drubinI guess people were really busy.20:19
inetprowe've had release parties in Gauteng with every release that I can remember of20:19
drubinbtw the same as the report thing, I might be the contact but well every thing is a team effort20:19
nuvolariyay for superfly :D20:19
nuvolari:P20:19
superflysorry I'm late20:19
drubinbtw hamslaa1 is the System admin for one of the Universities in A20:20
* txwikinger cheers on superfly20:20
drubinand he has pretty much helped out getting ubuntu regonised and every thing in the uni. see http://www.ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/Special:Statistics20:20
superflyohi txwikinger20:20
drubinbasically the reason that is better to have a different wiki is this one is "Free access to studnets" so they don't use their Internet hours to access ubuntu resources (because it is local)20:21
czajkowskiok20:21
drubinwow huge stats on the SUN wiki.20:21
drubinczajkowski: any other questions?20:21
czajkowskiok lets vote20:21
helgerbandwidth is still quite expensive in SA20:21
huatsdrubin, I think you made your point :)20:22
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the Ubuntu Sa team re approval . only council members vote.20:22
hamslaa1u bet it is and very scarce20:22
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the Ubuntu Sa team re approval . only council members vote..20:22
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:22
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:22
crabbytag+120:22
MootBot+1 received from crabbytag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:22
drubinOnly concil vote btw20:22
czajkowski+120:22
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:22
nagaraja+120:22
MootBot+1 received from nagaraja. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:22
thangam_arun+120:22
MootBot+1 received from thangam_arun. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:22
huats+120:22
MootBot+1 received from huats. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:22
highvoltagewell done team ZA20:22
popey+120:22
MootBot+1 received from popey. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 620:22
viky+120:23
MootBot+1 received from viky. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 720:23
crabbytagwhoh20:23
inetprowow20:23
nuvolari:>20:23
popeywhoops20:23
tumbleweedthanks guys :)20:23
drubin\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/20:23
stefanlsdyay!!! congrats guys :)20:23
inetprodrubin: is our man \o/20:23
drubinthanks -council.20:23
MorganvdThank you all20:23
huatscongrats za20:23
crabbytaggrats drubin :)20:23
nuvolarithank you! \o/ \o/20:23
popeyKeep doing great work guys and gals!20:23
nelydajo=====< paarp20:23
drubininetpro: No ubuntu-za is our team20:23
czajkowski#endvote20:23
hamslaa1baie dankie !!20:23
czajkowski[endvote]20:23
MootBotFinal result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 720:23
* maiatoday has a big grin20:23
nuvolaricongrats drubin :D20:23
thangam_arunDrubin, Congrats20:23
nuvolariand everyone involed :D20:24
czajkowskigrrr please in future let council only vote20:24
hamslaa1well done dave !20:24
nelydajoWell done guys!20:24
Kiloscongrats drubin20:24
vikyCongrats drubin20:24
Kilosgo za20:24
* drubin accepts congrats for the whole team20:24
robbitGreat stuff guys. You did an awesome job.20:24
huatsI don't know if you notice but just when sabdfl connects, the ubuntu-za gets reapproved :)20:24
MorganvdCongrats Drubin you earned it20:24
sabdflYOU CALLED20:24
superflyyay! :-D20:24
sabdfl;-)20:24
popeyhaha20:24
nagarajaCongratz drubin, tumbleweed and all ur team guys20:24
popeyconvenient20:24
drubinsabdfl: we did we just got approved Ubuntu-za20:24
tumbleweedre-approved20:25
sabdflrocking news :)20:25
drubinye that one.20:25
czajkowskigreat stuff folks20:25
czajkowskiok moving on20:25
Morganvdcya all in ubuntu-za20:25
sabdflis there a center of gravity to the team, or distributed across za?20:25
czajkowski[topic] Indian LoCo Re approval20:25
MootBotNew Topic:  Indian LoCo Re approval20:25
sabdflno need to answer, keep going with the mtng20:25
drubinsabdfl: all around, but we seem to be pretty active in Stellenbosch of all places20:25
inetpronow we just need to get sabdfl to our SFD in Pretoria :-)20:25
nagarajayes20:25
czajkowski[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team20:26
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team20:26
czajkowskinagaraja: ok anyone else here with you ?20:26
nagarajayes , amachu, viky , arulalan , thangami arun20:27
czajkowskiok welcome folks nice to have you here, I know it's late20:27
nagarajaits midnight 1 at India20:27
czajkowskinagaraja: so can you tell us a bit about your team, how you are doing ?20:27
amachuczajkowski: the wiki's timeline is to get updated but we can give you references for blanks20:28
amachum3swamy: hey!20:28
czajkowskiamachu: so why wasn't that done before the meeting ?20:29
nagarajaya ,, we are spreading the features of ubuntu across tamil nodu by conducting various public functions , seminars in colleges and distributing free cd's across tamil nadu20:29
m3swamyhello amachu :20:29
popeywhere is the approval application?20:29
czajkowskipopey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team20:30
czajkowskijust not named as an application20:30
nagarajaits on our wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team20:30
amachuczajkowski: all are in Tamil.. to do in English.. lazied20:30
* popey pokes the wiki with a stick20:30
=== starcraft is now known as starcraftman
czajkowskinagaraja: ok, well the layout we suggested and naming hasn;'t been followed20:31
czajkowskiamachu: nagaraja  I don't think we can process this application today20:31
czajkowskiit's lacking any of the information20:31
czajkowskiwe'd suggest you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoExampleApplication20:31
czajkowskiand come back on August 17th20:31
amachuczajkowski: yep20:31
amachuthats fine with us20:32
nagarajayes ofcourse20:32
czajkowskiit's just we can't process that page as there isn't much information there20:32
czajkowskiif you need help the council can help we idle in #ubuntu-locoteams20:32
amachuczajkowski: thats fine20:32
popeywe can certainly help you prepare the wiki page20:32
huatsit is in order to give us a clear view of your work20:32
nagarajawe have designed the layout and info. to be in tamil20:32
popeybut we would need that done before the next loco council meeting20:32
czajkowski[agreed] Indian LoCo to come back on August 17th with up to date wiki application20:33
MootBotAGREED received:  Indian LoCo to come back on August 17th with up to date wiki application20:33
nagarajasure ,,20:33
czajkowskiok20:33
czajkowskiso moving on20:33
nagarajaagreed20:33
czajkowski[topic] Serbia LoCo re Approval20:33
MootBotNew Topic:  Serbia LoCo re Approval20:33
thangam_arunczajkowski: ok20:33
uros1Greetings from Serbia, we send application as well and we are ready to discuss it if it is possible20:33
amachuczajkowski: we understand.. its that we noticed the meeting to be held couple of days back & didn't want to miss out20:33
bojceGreetings from Serbia20:33
czajkowski[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeam/ReApprovalApplication20:33
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeam/ReApprovalApplication20:33
uros1members present are bojce coordinator, Githzerai, Prvul, olujicz, archmalac and me.20:33
czajkowskiok thanks folks for coming20:34
prvulo/20:34
nagarajanice20:34
czajkowskiover 4000 members on your forum, that's a lot20:34
popeywoah, over 4000 on the forum, nice work20:34
uros1tnx20:34
Githzeraitnx, we hope to inprove ;)20:35
czajkowskiso is a lot of your team work done via the forums?20:35
uros1yes, biggest activity  is on form helping new users to get fammiliar20:36
uros1with Ubuntu20:36
popeyhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-srbija/4595310793/in/photostream/ whats going on there, looks like a lot of attentive people learning about lucid :)20:36
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-srbija/4595310793/in/photostream/ whats going on there, looks like a lot of attentive people learning about lucid :)20:36
uros1its release party on Lucid with 100+ people20:36
uros1in Belgrade downtown20:37
czajkowskiwow impressive20:37
czajkowskiso how do you go about organising your events?20:37
czajkowskidoes everyone just help ?20:37
popeyexcellent stuff20:37
uros1LoCo core team is active in organisation, but other users have great role in events as well20:38
czajkowskioh good I like to hear that20:38
Githzeraiwe usually have minor problems during organisation, but things somehoe just work out20:38
huatsdo you have pictures of the material you are doing ? (like tshirt and stuffs you mention) ? I am a big fan of sharing this kind of stuffs (well the sources) so that teams that have less artists can also do their own20:38
czajkowskiGithzerai: such as?20:39
GithzeraiWell biggset problem is finding appropriate place to hold such event20:39
uros1T-shirts20:39
uros1maybe20:39
czajkowskiGithzerai: yes it can be hard.20:40
popeyGithzerai: same issue every loco has I'm afraid :)20:40
czajkowskiGithzerai: is it size/location or cost issues you face?20:40
popeyGithzerai: if you find a magic venue, let other locos know! :D20:40
Githzerai:)20:40
uros1:)20:41
GithzeraiMost of the time we manage to find some location for free, but timing schedule is a problem.20:41
czajkowskiso is there any issues you faced in the last 2 years since you were first approved?20:41
uros1yes, server problem20:41
olujiczhuats, we mainly use materials from http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/20:41
GithzeraiServer troubles, so we are currently in a process of migrating to a new host20:42
czajkowskiGithzerai: ok20:42
huatsolujicz, ok so it is already shared ! great20:42
czajkowskiso any other comments you'd like to mention to the council20:43
paultagI'm back. Sorry folks. I'm on WiFi now20:44
uros1no thats all i think, maybe to take a look at new site, forum...20:44
bojceyes, we change branding for new server20:44
uros1http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/20:44
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/20:44
czajkowskiuros1: we notice a lack of team reports20:45
uros1http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/testforum/20:45
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/testforum/20:45
popeynew site looks beautiful20:45
huatsuros1, I think you are doing a good job. I'd like to see reports in your applications20:45
uros1http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/wiki/20:45
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/wiki/20:45
paultag+1 on that. New site rocks20:45
huatshave you think of doing some ?20:45
uros1thanks20:45
czajkowskiuros1: do you know about team reports?20:46
prvulwe know20:46
paultagprvul: are you considering making them a regular thing?20:46
GithzeraiThat is one of the things we would like to improve.20:46
uros1yes we know and we do that20:46
uros1in close future20:47
prvulyes! but until now we havent used ubuntu oficial wiki20:47
czajkowskiGithzerai: I hope to read serbia report so in Next months news letter20:47
prvulbecause we have our own20:47
prvulwe alredy set up basic pages for reports20:48
prvuljust didnt fill them20:48
prvul:)20:48
popeywe could look at how to make it easier for people to contribute reports on external wikis20:48
uros1yes thats great idea20:48
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the Serbia LoCo Re Approval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE20:48
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the Serbia LoCo Re Approval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.20:48
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:48
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:48
huats+1 continue the good work20:48
MootBot+1 received from huats. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:48
czajkowski+120:48
paultag+120:48
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:48
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:48
popey+120:48
MootBot+1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:48
paultagKeep up the good work uros120:48
paultagAnd the rest of the team :)20:49
uros1tnx man20:49
itnet7+1 great work!!20:49
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:49
czajkowskilooking forward to reports next month20:49
paultagFor sure. REPORTS!20:49
paultagPlease :)20:49
czajkowski[endvote]20:49
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 520:49
czajkowskigreat well done folks !20:49
popeynice work!20:49
bojcethx20:49
GithzeraiThank you !20:49
uros1:)20:49
prvul\o/ to!20:49
popeylook forward to photos from the 10.10.10 release party!20:49
huatscongrats !20:49
popeyDont Panie!20:49
popey*panic20:49
olujiczThank you20:49
uros1wow, thanks!20:49
itnet7congrats!20:49
czajkowskiok so moving onto council items20:50
stashey, wait a minute20:50
stashi all20:50
Githzeraiit's been a priviledge being a part of Ubuntu LoCo last 5 years, and we hope to improve in the future.20:50
czajkowski[topic] Updating Application with new headings20:50
MootBotNew Topic:  Updating Application with new headings20:50
stasczajkowski: i asked last week about ubuntu-ro reapproval20:50
paultagstas: Romania?20:51
czajkowskistas: RO ?20:51
stasyes20:51
stasme and Cracknel and riddickbm20:51
paultagczajkowski: sent an email, right?20:51
czajkowskiromanian20:51
staswiki20:51
czajkowskiI sent an email earlier on today to the team20:51
czajkowskito adi20:51
stashmm, didn't get it20:51
stasadi is away20:51
czajkowskiit was sent20:51
czajkowskiyou were re approved20:51
stasi called him just some hours before20:51
stasoh, thanks guys20:51
paultagstas: you were +1'd unanimously20:52
stasthanks, didn't know20:52
paultagstas: sure :)_20:52
czajkowskiok so getting back to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved20:52
itnet7congratulations stas, sorry for the delay20:52
staskeep up the great work :)20:52
paultagstas: back at you!20:52
czajkowskithis is the wiki page teams are referred to, to create their applications20:52
czajkowskiI think it'd be a good idea to add some more headings so that if teams need to do things via email it would have more content20:53
czajkowskibut adding team reports would also be a heading I'd like to see20:53
czajkowski[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved20:53
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved20:53
huatsczajkowski, I agree I think the team reports would help a lot20:54
czajkowskihuats: any other headings you think might be a good idea to include?20:55
paultagYeah, I agree20:55
paultagczajkowski: this is just the display page, yeah?20:55
czajkowskiperhaps this is something that should be worked on and released for next cycle.....20:55
paultagczajkowski: not the actual report page that is <<Include()>>'d20:55
paultagright?20:55
czajkowskithis would be for the TEAM/ApprovalApplication TEAM/REApprovalApplication20:56
paultagOh dur, right.20:56
czajkowskipaultag: ^^20:56
czajkowskibut one heading would be Team reports20:56
paultagYup, +1 on that here. I think that will work very well20:56
popeysomething really simple, we need to keep the overhead for the teams low20:56
popeyespecially those non-native-english20:56
paultag+1 popey20:56
popeybarrier to re-approval should be low for those who have plenty of stuff to show us20:56
czajkowskiindeed20:56
popeyit should be as easy for them to show it to us as it is for them to document it in the first place20:57
czajkowskiatm it's KEy DEtails, Roadmap, and Experience20:57
huatsI'd like to see the evolution since the last vote of the council20:57
popeymaybe we can take copies of successful team re-approvals as examples?20:57
czajkowskipopey: nice idea20:58
czajkowskicolombia france were excellent ones20:58
popeyyeah20:58
czajkowskibut they are very detailed, we could do wiht one also for a smaller loco ?20:58
popeymaybe make pdfs out of them20:58
popeyfreeze them in stone20:59
czajkowskigreat idea20:59
czajkowskipopey: can I action that to you20:59
popeysure20:59
czajkowski[acton] popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams20:59
czajkowski[action] popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams20:59
MootBotACTION received:  popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams20:59
huatsI'd like to see in the reapproval application, the linkto the pdf of the approval application20:59
popeyyup21:00
huatsit is always nice to compare the planned roadmap to the real stuffs that happened21:00
czajkowskiok so perhaps we need to work on this a bit behind the scenes and then  come back with some ideas/drafts of wiki pages and then come up with the new page ?21:00
huatsczajkowski, I agree21:01
czajkowskiok so21:01
czajkowskihuats: can I action you this item to kick off a mail and a sample wiki page of some new headings for council to work on21:01
huatsczajkowski, go ahead21:01
huats:)21:02
czajkowski[action] huats to set up a sample new wiki page for applications and to kick off email for loco council to work on21:02
MootBotACTION received:  huats to set up a sample new wiki page for applications and to kick off email for loco council to work on21:02
ActionParsnipyo yo yo21:02
ActionParsnipsorry a bit late, work was a pig21:02
czajkowskiok are there any other areas we need to cover, EMEA is on next21:02
paultagI think that's it :)21:03
huatsthanks everyone for the meeting21:03
czajkowski#endmeeting21:03
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:03.21:03
czajkowskithanks folks21:03
ActionParsnipam I late?21:03
popeyActionParsnip: no21:04
paultagActionParsnip: LoCo Council meeting just ended :)21:04
popeyperfectly on time21:04
ActionParsnippopey: sweet21:04
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA21:04
highvoltageEMEA RMB shouldn't be too long today :)21:04
* drubin is here but on shacky interwebs21:05
popeyhighvoltage: who are we missing21:05
czajkowskio/21:05
* ogra_cmpc snorkels21:05
czajkowskiwe have apologies from Dennis21:05
highvoltageand stgraber is on the phone with a client, not sure how long that will last still :/21:06
czajkowskiwell we have 5/721:06
czajkowskiso that's ok21:07
highvoltagegreat21:07
huatsgoog meeting EMEA board )21:07
czajkowskisomeone gonna chair..21:07
highvoltageczajkowski: will you drive the bot?21:07
czajkowskihighvoltage: if you do the report :)21:07
popeyTeamwork!21:07
czajkowskithat's a yes then21:08
czajkowski#startmeeting21:08
MootBotMeeting started at 15:08. The chair is czajkowski.21:08
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:08
highvoltageczajkowski: heh, sneaky :) (yes)21:08
czajkowskiAloha to EMEA RMB :)21:08
czajkowski[topic] Roy Jamison21:08
* ActionParsnip sips tea21:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Roy Jamison21:08
czajkowskinot present it would seem21:08
ogra_cmpcyeah21:08
ogra_cmpcsad21:08
czajkowskiok moving on21:09
czajkowski[topic] Majd Almontaser21:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Majd Almontaser21:09
highvoltagepity21:09
czajkowskittmtt??21:09
czajkowskialso not hear,21:09
czajkowskido folks know they put their name down they have to turn up right?21:09
czajkowski[topic] Omar Mohsen21:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Omar Mohsen21:10
Mezczajkowski: I've seen (a long time ago) people be passed without being there :P21:10
ActionParsnipttmtt = http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=109575021:10
czajkowskiegyparadox ?21:10
czajkowskiok this is slightly annoying21:10
czajkowski[topic] Andrew Woodhead21:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Andrew Woodhead21:10
ActionParsnipleast i'm here or it'd be a washout21:10
czajkowskiActionParsnip: hey there!21:10
ActionParsniphi czajkowski21:11
czajkowski[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip21:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip21:11
highvoltageActionParsnip: please tell us a bit about yourself!21:12
popey"highest Karma in the questions section being the first to beach the 100000 mark with 166739 "21:12
popeythats a lot of karma21:12
ActionParsnipwhat you wanna know?21:12
ActionParsnipyep, lotsa karma21:12
popeyhowever...21:12
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanPope?action=diff&rev2=11&rev1=1021:12
popey:)21:12
Mezpopey: he musta done or be scheduled to do lots of bad things to balance it out :P21:12
ActionParsnipyeah, thats pretty rad popey21:13
popeyso i completely understand the commitment to answering questions!21:13
ActionParsnipso what you wanna know, i need some structure to pad out, you want my favourite colour an stuff?21:13
highvoltageActionParsnip: what is your favourite colour?21:14
czajkowskiActionParsnip: are you involved in your loco ?21:14
ActionParsnipThe colour a clear sky goes when its a clear sky, not quite black but not blue21:14
drubinActionParsnip: You said you admin mostly windows servers Do you deal with any linux servers?21:14
highvoltageActionParsnip: following czajkowski's question, do you have any interest in expanding your ubuntu activities beyond support?21:15
ActionParsnipczajkowski: not been to one yet, i kinda just work and sleep when I work, then go out and check stuff when I'm off. i use my phone to post on launchpad and chat on irc21:15
ActionParsniphighvoltage: sure, if I can help then sure21:15
czajkowskiActionParsnip: which is your loco team ?21:15
popeyActionParsnip: whereabouts in the country are you?21:15
ActionParsnipits fun to help21:15
ActionParsnippopey: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK21:16
ActionParsnipczajkowski: not sure21:16
popeyah okay, I know it :)21:16
ActionParsnipcapital of the world :)21:16
popeyheh21:16
popeywhat drives you to contribute?21:16
highvoltageI have no further questions21:16
* ogra_cmpc is a clear +1, beating seb128 in karma alone is worth a +1021:17
highvoltageoh I thought we have to wait for the bot before doing that21:17
ActionParsnippopey: half loving the OS but also because I dont get issues21:17
ogra_cmpchighvoltage, that was just a comment ;)21:17
highvoltageok :)21:17
ActionParsnipI buy stupidly supported hardware very on purpose so have no issues21:17
* drubin doesn't need any other info.21:17
ActionParsnipso i help others to compensate and it's taught me as much as I would have had if i'd had issues21:18
czajkowskiActionParsnip: well you're in the UK, so the UK loco.21:18
drubinActionParsnip: Would be nice to be more involved in your loco ;-p but that doesn't affect my vote personally21:18
ActionParsnipczajkowski: makes sense21:18
drubinLoco's aren't for every one ;-p21:18
czajkowskiActionParsnip: do you know about locos?21:18
ActionParsnipdrubin: it's always in stupid London and London is a horrible place, plus I dont drive21:18
ActionParsnipczajkowski: a tiny bit21:19
popeyActionParsnip: Leeds Global Jam it is then!21:19
drubinActionParsnip: what about having a mini loco type even in Leeds?21:19
highvoltagehow about voting!21:19
drubinActionParsnip: Our loco is kinda split up by distance so we have our own little mini events it is pretty cool21:19
popeyhow about that!21:19
drubinwaiting for the bot drivers?21:19
czajkowski[vote] please vote on Andrew Woodhead / ActionParsnip membership.. Only board members vote please21:19
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on Andrew Woodhead / ActionParsnip membership.. Only board members vote please.21:19
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:19
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:19
drubin+121:19
MootBot+1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:19
highvoltage+1 [ great support effort that is clearly sustained ]21:19
MootBot+1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:19
popey+121:19
ogra_cmpc+121:19
MootBot+1 received from popey. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:19
MootBot+1 received from ogra_cmpc. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:19
czajkowski+121:20
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:20
ActionParsnipwow this is crazy :D21:20
czajkowski#endvote21:20
popeyWelcome!21:20
czajkowski[endvote]21:20
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:20
czajkowskiActionParsnip: well done21:20
drubinActionParsnip: Well done21:20
ogra_cmpc\o/21:20
czajkowski[action] highvoltage to write up August Team report21:20
MootBotACTION received:  highvoltage to write up August Team report21:20
ogra_cmpcgreat21:20
popeytbh I'm surprised you weren't already a member!21:20
highvoltageczajkowski: almost done! this month happens to be particularly easy :)21:20
ActionParsnipthanks guys, you're the best21:20
popeyadded to ~ubuntumembers21:20
drubinhey I don't mind doing this months?21:20
ActionParsnippopey: thought I become more active21:21
czajkowski[action] highvoltage chair next meeting21:21
MootBotACTION received:  highvoltage chair next meeting21:21
czajkowski#endmeeting21:21
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:21.21:21
ogra_cmpcwow21:21
highvoltagewow in record time21:21
czajkowskistill disapointing folks adding nicks but not showing up :(21:22
drubinrecord time21:22
popeyit happens21:22
drubinActionParsnip: Thanks for pitching up21:22
drubinhighvoltage: link for the report?21:22
popeykeep up the great work ActionParsnip21:22
ActionParsnipczajkowski: yeah kinda sad but c'est la vie21:22
ActionParsnippopey: always21:22
ActionParsnipdrubin: pleasure as always21:22
ActionParsnipso whats the form now??21:23
popeyActionParsnip: also, get thee to #ubuntu-irc and get your cloak21:23
popeyand follow the Membership page to get your LWN subscription21:23
ActionParsnippopey: i'll bring my swiftest steed21:23
popey(which is one of the best things about being an Ubuntu member IMO)21:23
drubinActionParsnip: and @ubuntu email :)21:23
popeyemail will take a day or two21:23
popeyits semi-automatic21:24
ActionParsnipno worries21:24
ActionParsnippopey: I'm in #ubuntu-irc21:24
ActionParsnipcloak is kinda meaningless to me, don't understand the hubub21:25
ActionParsnipbut if it's coming, i'm game21:25
MezActionParsnip: -> #ubuntu-ops :21:29
Mezpopey: lol - my LWN subscription - I put in a request through Debian - it got spam filtered... then I applied through Ubuntu, and got added under Debian just before I got added under Ubuntu :)21:30
Mez@ ActionParsnip for the cloak, that is.21:30
ActionParsnipMez: I'm there dude21:30
popeyMez: -irc is fine21:30
ActionParsnipi'm in both21:30
Mezpopey: ah, I don't know - its all changed since my day ;)21:31
popeyyeah, let the professionals do the job :p21:31
ajmitchMez: you make it sound like you're old21:31
Mezajmitch: I've got the receding hairline :D21:32
highvoltagedrubin: e-mailed, will put it up just now21:35
highvoltagepopey: you usually edit the agenda to clear out the applications right?21:36
popeyuhm21:38
popeysometimes, yes :)21:38
popeywill do now21:39
popeythanks for the reminder21:39
popeydone21:40
popeywell, would be if the wiki didnt give me http 500 :S21:40
* czajkowski kicks the wiki 21:40
* popey thinks we should clear out some old crap from the wiki at the global jam21:42
popeyarchive off some pages, pdf them, and delete them21:43
popeynot necessarily in that order of course21:43
czajkowskipopey: what area of the wiki? with regrads to loco council ?21:45
ActionParsnipam I still needed?21:52
czajkowskinope21:52
czajkowskiwe can all sleep21:53
ActionParsnipcool, i need it21:53
ActionParsnip12 hour shift sucks21:54
ActionParsnipthanks again guys21:56
ActionParsnippeace21:56
popeyczajkowski: the whole thing21:59
czajkowskiwont argue with you there21:59
czajkowskibut maybe that is something we the LC could work on over those days21:59
czajkowskibe nice to create some sort of a index to our pages21:59
czajkowskiwe have a lot of content there now and some is translated and others aren't it'd be good to highligh areas that need some work ?22:00
popeythat would also be handy22:00
popeyalso, cc meeting o'clock?22:00
czajkowskiI'm still awake may as well do the 3rd meeting , finally one I don't have to chair :)22:01
* pleia2 waves22:01
* Technoviking waves22:02
* charlie-tca observing22:03
popeyeek22:04
* popey straightens his tie22:04
* highvoltage observes too22:06
* czajkowski waits for things to start22:06
popeyokay https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda22:06
popey#startmeeting22:06
MootBotMeeting started at 16:06. The chair is popey.22:06
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]22:06
sabdflhello22:06
popeyhi22:06
popeywe have two things on the agenda..22:06
* popey pings AlanBell 22:07
popeyyou about AlanBell to talk about "Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com"22:07
AlanBellhi22:08
popey[TOPIC] Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com22:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com22:08
popeywoot, i can drive the bot after all22:08
popeyAlanBell: did you want to discuss that at this meeting?22:08
AlanBellright, so there has been some discussion recently about posts on the planet in non-english languages22:08
AlanBelland it was suggested that it might be a topic to discuss with the CC22:09
AlanBellpersonally I am in favour of people writing in an assortment of languages, the planet is an aggregation of "what Members write"22:09
popeywhat's your thinking?22:09
pleia2there is currently no prohibition on non-english posts, the guidelines are "should attempt to use English where possible to reach the widest possible audience"22:10
pleia2if you're not interested in reaching the "widest possible audience" I don't really see a problem with non-english posts22:11
AlanBelltrue enough, but there was a rather negative reaction to one recent non-english post22:11
AlanBellthat is my view too22:11
sabdfli would rather we set up appropriate planets for other languages22:11
popeywould there be a problem once the proportion of EN to non-EN gets above a certain threshold and the planet becomes 'mostly non-EN' at which point EN speakers will find it problematic to read?22:11
sabdflfr.planet.ubuntu.com22:11
popeyi agree22:11
AlanBellthere are other language planets, and loco planets22:12
sabdflalong with an offer of translation volunteers for *particularly* noteworthy blogs (or even just reposts of links to translate.google.*)22:12
popeyno reason not to aggregate those planets on a global planet22:12
sabdflpopey: except, while it's romantic in concept, nobody would actually read it22:12
popeytrue22:12
popeyunless there was technical magic that made them all $my_locale22:12
AlanBellthe language planets that exist are not just posts of Ubuntu Members22:12
popeyi.e. google chrome22:13
sabdflwould you subscribe to a feed that  you could only understand 20% of? and if ubuntu continues to grow as wonderfully, english will be 20% of the total, max22:13
popeyif it was automagically translated, yes, probably22:13
sabdflcan i haz babelfish?22:13
sabdfloh dear22:13
sabdfli think i screwed that up22:13
AlanBellI would (but I doubt it would get that much)22:13
sabdfli can haz babelfish?22:13
sabdflto eat?22:13
AlanBellnom22:13
popeyheh, yet another 10.10.10. idea :)22:14
czajkowskiAlanBell: but it could.  and while you can click on a post and open it up and translate a post, having them all in one RSS feed like many do would lead to a lot of cranky people trying to read the planet22:14
popeyor cranky people _not_ reading the planet22:14
sabdfllet's call it Project Babelfish :-)22:14
czajkowskicranky folks are not what we want really :)22:14
AlanBellthe raison d'etre of the planet is to aggregate members, not to aggregate great English blogs about Ubuntu22:15
popeyI suspect most would rather subscribe to a planet they can read than one they cannot22:15
popeyas sabdfl suggested a romantic idea to let everyone post in their own language, but ultimately who would hear the tree fall?22:16
AlanBellalso makes for a damn good test of UTF-8 and RTL support in assorted feed readers :-)22:16
sabdflthat's true :-)22:16
AlanBellit really isn't going to end up with masses of posts in other languages, just looking at the demographics of the members22:17
AlanBellif it gets to 80% english, 20% others I would be surprised, and I would also be quite capable of translating the ones with interesting looking pictures, and skiping the ones that I don't feel like putting the effort into reading22:19
pleia2AlanBell: I tend to agree22:19
AlanBellat the moment we have a rule, phrased as a guideline (like the pirate code arrr)22:20
AlanBellwhich results in the occasional post in non-english having a load of nasty comments on it and people pointing at the rule/guideline as a justification for their negativity22:20
huatsI think something that should be considered is also the web indexing. I am not sure of how it would be handled in many languages. (well I am not sure if I can speak or not)22:21
popeyi do like the idea of separate planets, or feeds which allow people to select which langs they can see22:21
AlanBellyup, some kind of technical tagging enhancement would be great22:22
popeywell22:22
DavieyHello!22:22
pleia2separate feeds would be nice22:22
AlanBellplanet.ubuntu.com/fr+en  would be kind of awesome22:22
popeyintroducing Daviey and his new magic planet :)22:22
pleia2not so much separate planets :\22:22
AlanBellmoons perhaps?22:22
popeyon sticks?22:22
DavieyOkay...  planet won't really scale for multi language planets IMO22:22
Davieyas in planet, planet that we currently have22:23
Davieyyou will have to forgive me, i'm not exactly prepared for this topic :/22:23
popeysorry, i poked Daviey a moment ago knowing he's worked on this22:23
popeywell, this being planets, not this being multi-lingual planets22:23
sabdflwell, nasty comments should not go unchallenged, though gently22:23
Davieyhttp://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack22:24
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack22:24
Daviey^^ that includes openid support, with team based authentication access22:24
sabdflsweet!22:24
AlanBellsabdfl: the comments were addressed appropriately22:24
Davieyhttp://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation22:25
MootBotLINK received:  http://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation22:25
Daviey(note the button to Add Planet)22:25
sabdflnote the button theme, generally22:25
DavieyWhen a user adds there feed, it would be reasonably trival to ask what language they will be posting in22:25
inetprohow about all.planet.ubuntu.com to give those few who would like to read everything a page with all the lingos22:26
Davieyplanet.ubuntu.com{/fr/,/de/,/etc/} seems like a good fit?22:27
popeyi think the technical implementation of how one subscribes can be figured out later, i guess the main question is not 'how should we' but 'should we'22:27
inetproI certainly would not want to waste my bandwidth downloading pages that I have can not possibly understand22:27
inetpros/I have can/I can/22:28
* Daviey finds it frustrating when his native language isn't posted on the planet... I obviously don't object, but i would prefer to see it natively. :)22:28
pleia2as long as the main planet.ubuntu.com remains an aggregation of all feeds, I'm happy with any solution, I wouldn't want to segregate out folks who aren't english-speaking members22:28
pleia2but if someone really wants english only, planet.ubuntu.com/en/ would be nice22:28
popeythat sounds fair22:28
* AlanBell agrees with pleia2 22:29
popeyespecially if it's well documented22:29
Davieypleia2: It could be possible to hide your non-native language via cookies.. which would fit both ideas22:29
popeywe could totally blog about this! ;)22:29
AlanBellpopey: but in English please22:29
popeyDaviey: hard to do with rss readers surely?22:29
drubinDaviey: Noo that breaks rrss readers22:29
Davieypopey: in that instance you use a language based url, ie /de22:29
popeyright22:29
* Daviey just throws these crazy ideas out there..22:30
popeyDaviey: would you be willing to work on a demo site that had these features?22:30
popeyindeed do you have the time to?22:30
Davieypopey: Yes.. i think there is a team of people eager to get involved :)22:30
popey:)22:30
pleia2woohoo22:31
Davieythey just need some extra encouragement22:31
popeyAlanBell: does that sound acceptable?22:31
* Daviey waves at mhall119 o/ cjohnston o/ and some others22:31
AlanBellcertainly does22:31
AlanBellDaviey: one blog could easily have posts in two or more languages remember22:32
popey[ACTION] daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet22:32
MootBotACTION received:  daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet22:32
popeyAlanBell: implementation details ;)22:32
DavieyAlanBell: yeah.. i think version 1 would really need pre-declaring what language your primary posts will be in.22:32
popeyanyone else got any comments on this topic?22:32
pleia2nope, thanks Daviey!22:32
AlanBellok, so keep the rule/guideline in place until the technical enhancement is built22:32
DavieyAlanBell: If you want to brainstorm ideas, that would be equally appreciated!22:33
* Daviey declares AlanBell his "Architect"22:33
AlanBellDaviey: yup, and we should pull in some people who actually post in other languages22:33
popeygreat stuff chaps!22:34
* AlanBell adjusts fees accordingly22:34
* inetpro will watch this debate with a great deal of interest22:34
DavieyOK.. thanks for having me.. Returning to lurk mode o/22:34
AlanBello/22:34
popeythanks Daviey much appreciated22:34
inetprowe have 11 official languages in South Africa22:34
popey[TOPIC] Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com22:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com22:34
popeydpic is not about and brought this up on the mailing list22:34
sabdfli don't think having a default language for the project is discriminatory22:34
sabdfli think we should certainly create facilities to encourage expression in any language22:35
sabdfli think the default url, planet.ubuntu.com shoudl stay English, as that's the language used for debate, development and major announcements22:36
inetprosabdfl: for now that is :-)22:36
sabdflsorry, i was catching up, and didn't want to let the multi-lingual meme get carried away22:36
charlie-tcaI agree with sabdfl. A default language does not discriminate.22:36
popeythanks sabdfl22:37
popeyok, moving on, FSF on planet ubuntu?22:37
popeythe suggestion was made that they tag entries with 'ubuntu'22:37
pleia2I don't think it discriminates, I just think it would be unfortunate to miss out on the international flavor of the project (I use chrome's translate feature often)22:37
sabdflpleia2: let's have a separate aggregator, /+babel22:37
sabdflanyhoo, moving along with the chair22:38
sabdflany seconds for the tag suggestion?22:38
popey+1 for the hhgttg reference22:38
pleia2seems reasonable, pretty much in line with the corporate blog policy22:39
Technovikingthe seems fine to me22:39
popey+1 to the tag22:39
sabdfli'm interested to see if they acknowledge that we've always been on the pragmatic side of the copyleft debate22:39
sabdfl(+1 from me too)22:40
sabdfli think that's quorum22:40
popeythe suggestion was sent to Danny.22:41
popeyshould we confirm via mail to Danny that this is the decision of the CC?22:41
pleia2can't hurt22:42
sabdfli'm happy to err on the side of being a big tent with lots of voices inside22:43
sabdflhttp://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html22:43
MootBotLINK received:  http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html22:43
popeysorry, mum just called having trouble getting her mail in chrome on ubuntu22:43
popeybrb22:43
popeyback22:45
popey\o/ vnc over ssh22:45
sabdflbraveheart22:45
pleia2:)22:45
sabdflso yes, popey could you reply to danny, affirmative with tag for relevance?22:46
popeysure22:46
popey[ACTION] popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu22:46
MootBotACTION received:  popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu22:46
popey[TOPIC] Any Other Business22:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business22:47
popeyAnything?22:47
sabdflall clear here. should report that debconf this year was most welcoming yet, at least to me22:47
sabdfljorge gave a great talk on ubuntu-debian relations22:47
pleia2that's great to hear :)22:47
Technovikingexcellent:)22:47
popeyoh yes, you gave a talk on Unity?22:47
sabdflwell received, interesting questions, only one pointed comment on U1 which is understandable22:48
popeywas it videoed?22:48
czajkowskishall we be seeing the CC doing monthly reports from now on ?22:48
popeyczajkowski: ok, will do one22:48
sabdfli think it was, not my greatest oratory but the questions were good22:48
popey[ACTION] popey to do monthly report for the CC this month22:48
MootBotACTION received:  popey to do monthly report for the CC this month22:48
sabdflpopey: does shakespeare have any good quotes to the effect of "YOU ROCK"?22:48
sabdflif so, i doth quoth the bard in your direction ;-)22:48
popeyarf22:49
czajkowskigrin22:49
* czajkowski hugs popey THANK YOU22:49
sabdflis that a wrap?22:49
* ajmitch agrees on jcastro's talk being excellent, the bit of it that could be heard on the live stream :)22:49
* popey takes the bottle of gin from sabdfl 22:49
* inetpro lol22:49
popeyyes22:49
AlanBell"shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" is probably the closest22:49
pleia2thanks everyone22:49
pleia2AlanBell: haha22:49
sabdflftr, i'm jetlagged, not gin-lagged ;-)22:49
popey#endmeeting22:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 16:49.22:49
popeyAlanBell: big and hot?22:50
sabdflcheers all22:50
sabdflwrong channel?22:50
popeyheh22:50
AlanBelllol22:50
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-brb
=== apachelogger is now known as gnomelogger
mhall119Daviey: what were you waving for?23:43
=== Ursinha-brb is now known as Ursinha-afk

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